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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Darth Vapour
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Posted - 2010.08.03 05:10:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff
SiSi has the same bugs as TQ. If you cant use drones you could ermmm.... bug report it maybe ?
Have you visited the test server recently ? The overview is a huge mess which is full of bugs, the main one is not updating at all when warping between grids.
It's all been bug reported and attached to defects, on two days we'll see if they have fixed it all or it will have to be postponed like the previous one was.
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Xaroth Brook
Minmatar BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.03 09:08:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Gandolf gather your data from REAL fleet battle im 99.9% sure people wouldnt mind as long as u let them know u were doing it and there was going to be a benifit at the end
but would 99.9% of all people mind running logserver (and submit said logs), and would 99.9% of those people mind having an even more crappy fight ... or would 99.9% of all people actually stay in 1 location..
not to mention, would those people mind said 'tests' to result in loss of their ships? as it's not really feasible to reimburse an entire fleet battle... the amount of tinfoil hattery around would cause another 30 threadnaughts claiming favouritism because side A got one more ship reimbursed than side B ...
Xaroth Brook BIG www.big-eve.com
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Pneumon Blaster
Gallente Hel's Wing The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.08.03 12:16:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Xiaodown Do we get paid for this now? Or are we still doing their QA and integration testing for free?
No, the people here are paying for doing their QA and Integration testers job.
THAT'S JUST LOL :-)
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Fyrillicus
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:07:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Morgrim Firebrandt I have an idea that will get you the testers you seek, maybe too many.
Make it a policy that anyone who logs in for the scheduled tests gets 100,000 bonus sp on Tranquility for the character they logged in to test with, prorated to the length of time they were on vs the length of the test. If it's a 4-hour test and you stay for 1, you get 25,000 sp. The amount might need some tuning, but I guarantee you'll have people hammering the server to get on during test time and you are not out any cost to get the players except the time it takes to parse the server logs and give those people their sp.
I would have to call that an EXCELLENT idea. No real cost to CCP, yet the players get a real gain in skill points for their efforts.
+1
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Elowine
Caldari FP Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:13:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Fyrillicus
Originally by: Morgrim Firebrandt I have an idea that will get you the testers you seek, maybe too many.
Make it a policy that anyone who logs in for the scheduled tests gets 100,000 bonus sp on Tranquility for the character they logged in to test with, prorated to the length of time they were on vs the length of the test. If it's a 4-hour test and you stay for 1, you get 25,000 sp. The amount might need some tuning, but I guarantee you'll have people hammering the server to get on during test time and you are not out any cost to get the players except the time it takes to parse the server logs and give those people their sp.
I would have to call that an EXCELLENT idea. No real cost to CCP, yet the players get a real gain in skill points for their efforts.
+1
Love the idea, another +1 Check out my EVE music project |
Leonard Delmordaine
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:33:00 -
[366]
Hey CCP why dont you go where people are asking for node re-enforcement... i mean seriously. Why on the test server... seriously... do it on tq where the **** is happening not on a test server... looks like total sh**. Well I wonder when all the old player base is gone who actually cared for this game what shall CCP do... FAIL>.. Dust wont be anything... to many shooters out there for you to compete... and this walking in stations... thought this was a space ship game!
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Hawk Starfighter
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:49:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Leonard Delmordaine Hey CCP why dont you go where people are asking for node re-enforcement... i mean seriously. Why on the test server... seriously... do it on tq where the **** is happening not on a test server... looks like total sh**. Well I wonder when all the old player base is gone who actually cared for this game what shall CCP do... FAIL>.. Dust wont be anything... to many shooters out there for you to compete... and this walking in stations... thought this was a space ship game!
I'm just guessing here, but trying out patches that MIGHT work on big fleet fights on TQ might not be very popular you know, that's why we have a testserver, so they can test things. They aren't just sitting back and looking at the lag you know.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:40:00 -
[368]
My carrier pilot is presently living in a W-System with his carrier. Can moveme move me out? I cannot dock.
Or should I suicide out and get a new carrier?
P.S. They do not mirror POSes on sisi so our tower is not in the WS, but the carrier is! Just floating there. Was in a hangar.
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Tina OPPENHEIIMER
Minmatar FEDERATION SOLARIS
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Posted - 2010.08.04 07:02:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Vincent Athena My carrier pilot is presently living in a W-System with his carrier. Can moveme move me out? I cannot dock.
Or should I suicide out and get a new carrier?
Autodestruct and buy a new one (100 ISK the carrier !) attention : no MS & Titan available on marcket
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Sniggering Badger
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Posted - 2010.08.04 11:29:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Elowine
Originally by: Fyrillicus
Originally by: Morgrim Firebrandt I have an idea that will get you the testers you seek, maybe too many.
Make it a policy that anyone who logs in for the scheduled tests gets 100,000 bonus sp on Tranquility for the character they logged in to test with, prorated to the length of time they were on vs the length of the test. If it's a 4-hour test and you stay for 1, you get 25,000 sp. The amount might need some tuning, but I guarantee you'll have people hammering the server to get on during test time and you are not out any cost to get the players except the time it takes to parse the server logs and give those people their sp.
I would have to call that an EXCELLENT idea. No real cost to CCP, yet the players get a real gain in skill points for their efforts.
+1
Love the idea, another +1
+1 here also.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.08.04 11:43:00 -
[371]
Last time I tried to patch my SISI version it broke it.
/recopies for the millionth time /installs latest patch
Oh they have it on a new build, but no patch yet again.
IMHO the amount of hoops they expect us to jump through and the time we waste getting ready for these events is out of order, last time round they issued the latest patch in the afternoon before the test. If they could at least keep the build stable for 48 hours before a test it would feel a little less like you're bending over backwards to help CCP kick you in the teeth.
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WaiKin Beldar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.04 12:06:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Last time I tried to patch my SISI version it broke it.
/recopies for the millionth time /installs latest patch
Oh they have it on a new build, but no patch yet again.
IMHO the amount of hoops they expect us to jump through and the time we waste getting ready for these events is out of order, last time round they issued the latest patch in the afternoon before the test. If they could at least keep the build stable for 48 hours before a test it would feel a little less like you're bending over backwards to help CCP kick you in the teeth.
Sick of the same things here.
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Denidil
Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn
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Posted - 2010.08.04 12:32:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster
Originally by: Xiaodown Do we get paid for this now? Or are we still doing their QA and integration testing for free?
No, the people here are paying for doing their QA and Integration testers job.
THAT'S JUST LOL :-)
i can tell you as a software engineer that works on massively parallel systems...
their QA and Integration testers CANNOT reproduce tests like this. it's not possible. they need warm bodies controlling lots of ships. simulating that with software is not the same and the results of that might not be valid (or even show the bug).
that's why games have Beta tests, and why MMOs maintain a test server at all times. It's literally impossible to test everything in an MMO before it goes live. Especially unexpected corner conditions (Which is most likely the cause of the lag issues).
say CCP has 60 employees world wide. they spend 40 hours a day for 4 weeks performing testing.
60*40*4 = 9600 man hours the average population of the live server is 20-30k... meaning 1 hour of live is 20-30k man hours of testing. and this is on an MMO with a rather low players-to-devs ratio. imagine Everquest, Vanguard, World of Warcraft, etc.
stop being a whiny ***** and help CCP find the cause of the issue. the best programmers on the planet always need help testing situations like this (that are caused by large connection counts) as they're unreproducible in a lab - they just have to be done.
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Red Widdow
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:17:00 -
[374]
If I show up at say, 20:30 will this mess the test up or will I still be able to help? I would think it would simulate RL when it comes to fleet engagements. |
Xiaodown
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.08.04 15:13:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster
Originally by: Xiaodown Do we get paid for this now? Or are we still doing their QA and integration testing for free?
No, the people here are paying for doing their QA and Integration testers job.
THAT'S JUST LOL :-)
i can tell you as a software engineer that works on massively parallel systems...
their QA and Integration testers CANNOT reproduce tests like this. it's not possible. they need warm bodies controlling lots of ships. simulating that with software is not the same and the results of that might not be valid (or even show the bug).
that's why games have Beta tests, and why MMOs maintain a test server at all times. It's literally impossible to test everything in an MMO before it goes live. Especially unexpected corner conditions (Which is most likely the cause of the lag issues).
say CCP has 60 employees world wide. they spend 40 hours a day for 4 weeks performing testing.
60*40*4 = 9600 man hours the average population of the live server is 20-30k... meaning 1 hour of live is 20-30k man hours of testing. and this is on an MMO with a rather low players-to-devs ratio. imagine Everquest, Vanguard, World of Warcraft, etc.
stop being a whiny ***** and help CCP find the cause of the issue. the best programmers on the planet always need help testing situations like this (that are caused by large connection counts) as they're unreproducible in a lab - they just have to be done.
--
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Pneumon Blaster
Gallente Hel's Wing The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.08.04 17:07:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Pneumon Blaster on 04/08/2010 17:09:19
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster
Originally by: Xiaodown Do we get paid for this now? Or are we still doing their QA and integration testing for free?
No, the people here are paying for doing their QA and Integration testers job.
THAT'S JUST LOL :-)
i can tell you as a software engineer that works on massively parallel systems...
their QA and Integration testers CANNOT reproduce tests like this. it's not possible. they need warm bodies controlling lots of ships. simulating that with software is not the same and the results of that might not be valid (or even show the bug).
that's why games have Beta tests, and why MMOs maintain a test server at all times. It's literally impossible to test everything in an MMO before it goes live. Especially unexpected corner conditions (Which is most likely the cause of the lag issues).
say CCP has 60 employees world wide. they spend 40 hours a day for 4 weeks performing testing.
60*40*4 = 9600 man hours the average population of the live server is 20-30k... meaning 1 hour of live is 20-30k man hours of testing. and this is on an MMO with a rather low players-to-devs ratio. imagine Everquest, Vanguard, World of Warcraft, etc.
stop being a whiny ***** and help CCP find the cause of the issue. the best programmers on the planet always need help testing situations like this (that are caused by large connection counts) as they're unreproducible in a lab - they just have to be done.
I can tell you as QA and Integration software engineer, i have never seen a company that would test production environment using their customers as testers. :)
Our role is to pay for the game, and play it. Their role is develop and fix it. How - its their problem not ours :)
// but the only problem here i see here is they expect it for free. so we expect something for free from them too - like free play time, or SP bonus mentioned before.
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Swidgen
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Posted - 2010.08.04 18:43:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster I can tell you as QA and Integration software engineer, i have never seen a company that would test production environment using their customers as testers. :)
Our role is to pay for the game, and play it. Their role is develop and fix it. How - its their problem not ours :)
// but the only problem here i see here is they expect it for free. so we expect something for free from them too - like free play time, or SP bonus mentioned before.
They have set up the test server with special builds of the code, presumably instrumented for testing. They ask players to log on and help out occasionally. You have two choices: log on to the test server and take part in the test, or not.
Nobody is forcing you to do anything, and if they want your opinion on how to do QA, they'll ask. |
Denidil
Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn
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Posted - 2010.08.04 22:22:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster
I can tell you as QA and Integration software engineer, i have never seen a company that would test production environment using their customers as testers. :)
Our role is to pay for the game, and play it. Their role is develop and fix it. How - its their problem not ours :)
// but the only problem here i see here is they expect it for free. so we expect something for free from them too - like free play time, or SP bonus mentioned before.
you've never worked at an MMO developer then :D my employer's QA department is lucky.. we write financial switch (ISO 8583 message handlers) and ATM driving applications, etc. really easy to do coverage testing, MMOs have so many more orders of magnitude of possible code and actor interactions it's not even funny.
but offering SP/hour bonus on Tranq for helping on SiSi would be a great idea to get people
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Midori Amiiko
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.04 22:48:00 -
[379]
Here's a concept...try having a few people paying attention to the help and moveme channels. Don't give me the "we're so busy with other stuff" line either. People in nul-sec do 5 things at once and still keep an eye on local. (That's 5 in-game things, never mind RL issues.) It doesn't say much about your commitment to testing when 20 hours before the testing begins it's a ghost town on Sisi. Maybe I'd like to, um, I don't know...fit a ship before the testing starts.
I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way John Paul Jones |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.05 01:11:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Denidil
stop being a whiny ***** and help CCP find the cause of the issue. the best programmers on the planet always need help testing situations like this (that are caused by large connection counts) as they're unreproducible in a lab - they just have to be done.
So when Toyota had brake problems with the cars, did you go down and help test them out?
When they introduce new jets, are you down there volunteering to help test them?
What about bullet proof vests, ever help test those?
CCP is a company, that intentionally broke their game in December of 2009, and have subsequently stubbornly refused to right the wrong they did.
The game worked before, it does not now, they know it, we know it, and if you don't know it, well, your probably the only one.
Basically, the gist of it is, if they wanted people to be free for tests, the Sov structures we're now forced to shoot on the live server need a serious cut in hit points, as pretty much all of our actual gaming time is now spent shooting them through 30 second module lag.
I also don't volunteer to test a product I've been paying for for 4 years now, because the manufacturer broke something and refuses to back up to the previously working model till the kinks are worked out.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb Focused Intentions
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Posted - 2010.08.05 08:40:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Grath Telkin CCP is a company, that intentionally broke their game in December of 2009, and have subsequently stubbornly refused to right the wrong they did.
1. It was not intentional. That would be insane (and save the cute reply to that).
2. They are trying to right the wrong.
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Pneumon Blaster
Gallente Hel's Wing The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.08.05 09:12:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster
I can tell you as QA and Integration software engineer, i have never seen a company that would test production environment using their customers as testers. :)
Our role is to pay for the game, and play it. Their role is develop and fix it. How - its their problem not ours :)
// but the only problem here i see here is they expect it for free. so we expect something for free from them too - like free play time, or SP bonus mentioned before.
you've never worked at an MMO developer then :D my employer's QA department is lucky.. we write financial switch (ISO 8583 message handlers) and ATM driving applications, etc. really easy to do coverage testing, MMOs have so many more orders of magnitude of possible code and actor interactions it's not even funny.
but offering SP/hour bonus on Tranq for helping on SiSi would be a great idea to get people
they would definitely get me too.
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Stitcher
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.08.05 11:48:00 -
[383]
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:50:09 Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:48:44
Originally by: Grath Telkin So when Toyota had brake problems with the cars, did you go down and help test them out?
your example is not applicable. That was a mechanical fault that could be easily replicated in laboratory conditions without involving the consumers. Bulletproof vests don't require a volunteer test subject in order to demonstrate that they function.
This is a software fault that only manifests during use by the consumer. Therefore it is important to have the consumer connect and cause the error in a controlled environment for the sake of data gathering.
Asking the customer to help with testing is a perfectly reasonable approach when the fault only occurs during customer use and can't be otherwise reproduced. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.08.05 11:50:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Xiaodown
2.) The mass testings need to actually happen - rather than being pushed back. But with the current state of the test server, I dunno how it's going to work with the borked overview, in-space navigation, window resize, etc.
Pretty much this.
They're saying how fixing lag is their number one priority and how desperate they are for people to help them, but at the same time doing their very best to guarantee people won't bother again by making the experience as painful as possible. Given how many other borked features there are in this build how can they even hope to get any meaningful information out of the test.
They're about to demonstrate to another chunk of their customer base how this whole 'fixing lag is our number one priority' is really a bit of a joke, and to top it off they've become so used to taking their customers for granted that they can't even see how insulting their attitude is.
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Denidil
Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn
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Posted - 2010.08.05 12:11:00 -
[385]
having the test at 20:00 EveTime also means most of your american players are at work.
20:00 Eve = 15:00 East, 14:00 Central, ....
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CONCORD4U
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.05 14:15:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Denidil having the test at 20:00 EveTime also means most of your american players are at work.
20:00 Eve = 15:00 East, 14:00 Central, ....
And you would most certainly need American player to test stuff. Europeans don't play this game and won't go on Sissi. Beside the people that don't have work or are still at an age they go to school and might be off at that time, but those also don't live in the US.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.08.05 14:48:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:50:09 Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:48:44
Originally by: Grath Telkin So when Toyota had brake problems with the cars, did you go down and help test them out?
your example is not applicable. That was a mechanical fault that could be easily replicated in laboratory conditions without involving the consumers. Bulletproof vests don't require a volunteer test subject in order to demonstrate that they function.
This is a software fault that only manifests during use by the consumer. Therefore it is important to have the consumer connect and cause the error in a controlled environment for the sake of data gathering.
Asking the customer to help with testing is a perfectly reasonable approach when the fault only occurs during customer use and can't be otherwise reproduced.
I disagree. CCP employees can be and have been involved in large, performance problem plagued player actions on Tranquility.
Additionally, how do we know that CCP hasn't been able to reproduce the various issues impacting play in their own testing environments? CCP is under no obligation to reveal to their customers what they do and do not know about problems with their product.
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Stitcher
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.08.05 16:21:00 -
[388]
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 16:22:56
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara I disagree. CCP employees can be and have been involved in large, performance problem plagued player actions on Tranquility.
Additionally, how do we know that CCP hasn't been able to reproduce the various issues impacting play in their own testing environments? CCP is under no obligation to reveal to their customers what they do and do not know about problems with their product.
If they were able to and had reproduced it internally, or were able to gather the required data straight from TQ, why on Earth would they be asking us to help them stress test?
No, the fact that they're asking for people to login - voluntarily - to Singularity and do this is evidence enough that they have not been able to duplicate it on one of their dev test servers, nor are they able to get the information they need just from monitoring a live fight on Tranquility. What they need is bums in chairs across the planet, in the controlled environment of singularity. If they didn't need that, they wouldn't be asking for it.
It's simple logic - if they were ABLE to do it easily and without a few hundred players on their own systems, they WOULD have because it's more convenient. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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RedShadow
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.08.05 17:29:00 -
[389]
Edited by: RedShadow on 05/08/2010 17:32:48 So im loading this new client build full enthusiastic to participate in Mass-Testing and i'm thinking "wtf is this ****?" like my old friend picard... srsly, 2 GB patch release some minutes before testing, well played SIRS! http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg
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Arela Xen
Gallente Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.08.05 17:38:00 -
[390]
I have installed my testclient two times now, yesterday and this afternoon...both clients are now useless, patcher tells me to download 2.6 gb...wtf? how can you expect people downloading 2.6 gb 3 hours before the test starts...is this the final testpatch now? ridiculous...
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