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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪI seem to recall that there are a number of ways to call up a list of nearby asteroids
If you mean survey scanner...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1403339#post1403339 |
Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
42
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
The best counter argument to bumping I've read in this thread was to add the concept of proportion to it. Mass of bumping ship vs. mass of ship being bumped.
When a fly hits your windshield, which happens?
A) The fly goes splat B) Your car gets knocked off the road C) Both the fly and the car explode in a ball of fire!!
The answer to this common sense question is obvious. A frigate should go splat when it hits a ship thousands of times its own mass. EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8288
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
Any kind of scanner, reallyGǪ
There are ships that provide bonuses to survey scanners so there's very little reason for you to carry it yourself.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
81
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:That's what the brackets are for. That would mean I have "spin" my ship in space ever 2 seconds to see if there's someone else on same belt. And it wouldn't help with cloaky ships.
The Brackets are for the Asteroids. Wow, are you dense. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
81
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:32:00 -
[125] - Quote
That's if your strategy is to tank ganks. If your strategy is to avoid ganks, you just need 3 Webs; you can put a survey scanner in the last mid slot. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:39:00 -
[126] - Quote
Tippia wrote:There are ships that provide bonuses to survey scanners so there's very little reason for you to carry it yourself.
How can Orca pilot target asteroids for Hulk pilot? How survey scanner on Orca will help Hulk pilot when distances scanner tells you are from asteroid to Orca, not from asteroid to Hulk? Especially when Orca is 40km from Hulk. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8288
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:43:00 -
[127] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:How can Orca pilot target asteroids for Hulk pilot? How survey scanner on Orca will help Hulk pilot when distances scanner tells you are from asteroid to Orca, not from asteroid to Hulk? Especially when Orca is 40km from Hulk. That depends on which portion of the information you want to put in the overview and which portion goes into brackets.
Come to think of it, I have to ask: have you ever mined anything? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Come to think of it, I have to ask: have you ever mined anything?
Pretty much everything from veldspar to arkonor and ice. Haven't mined mercoxit yet. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
81
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:49:00 -
[129] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Tippia wrote:There are ships that provide bonuses to survey scanners so there's very little reason for you to carry it yourself.
How can Orca pilot target asteroids for Hulk pilot? How survey scanner on Orca will help Hulk pilot when distances scanner tells you are from asteroid to Orca, not from asteroid to Hulk? Especially when Orca is 40km from Hulk.
You're in a fleet.
Fleet commanders can broadcast things... like targets. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
81
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:54:00 -
[130] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Tippia wrote:There are ships that provide bonuses to survey scanners so there's very little reason for you to carry it yourself.
How can Orca pilot target asteroids for Hulk pilot? How survey scanner on Orca will help Hulk pilot when distances scanner tells you are from asteroid to Orca, not from asteroid to Hulk? Especially when Orca is 40km from Hulk.
Why is the Orca 40km away when the Hulk isn't moving more than 7m/s? -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:56:00 -
[131] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Why is the Orca 40km away when the Hulk isn't moving more than 7m/s?
"250% bonus to tractor beam range"
Tell me one good reason why I should ignore that. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
64
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:02:00 -
[132] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Why is the Orca 40km away when the Hulk isn't moving more than 7m/s? "250% bonus to tractor beam range" Tell me one good reason why I should ignore that.
So, you park 40km away, just because you can? |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:So, you park 40km away, just because you can?
And minimize possible losses to smartbomb gank. If barges are in tight group they are easy target for gankers.
Actually, Orca was originally designed for nullsec mining ops. There asteroid belts are huge (~200 km) so it would be stupid to have all barges in one group. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
65
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:18:00 -
[134] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:So, you park 40km away, just because you can? And minimize possible losses to smartbomb gank. If barges are in tight group they are easy target for gankers. Actually, Orca was originally designed for nullsec mining ops. There asteroid belts are huge (~200 km) so it would be stupid to have all barges in one group.
I was talking about the distance between the Orca and one Hulk, not a group of hulks.
With the Orca bonuses to the survey scanner range, you can scan the entire belt and then broadcast targets to your hulk pilots. |
Blobber NL
The Ultima Thule
70
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:19:00 -
[135] - Quote
Bluddwolf wrote:The best counter argument to bumping I've read in this thread was to add the concept of proportion to it. Mass of bumping ship vs. mass of ship being bumped.
When a fly hits your windshield, which happens?
A) The fly goes splat B) Your car gets knocked off the road C) Both the fly and the car explode in a ball of fire!!
The answer to this common sense question is obvious. A frigate should go splat when it hits a ship thousands of times its own mass.
Last time that happened to me my car was knocked of the road:( |
Armtoe
DOUBLE IDENTITY Fatal Ascension
175
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:23:00 -
[136] - Quote
Minmatar Freedom wrote:Cpt Roghie wrote:Uhm... I fail to see the point. Are you moaning about bumping being OP, do you want it nerfed... Are you simply stating a point? I'm lost. I'm stating a point. The argument that "if miners just protected themselves, they wouldn't get shot" is irrelevant because there's no way to protect yourself once bumping gets involved.
lol kill
Cause there is no way for miners to protect themselves |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:26:00 -
[137] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:I was talking about the distance between the Orca and one Hulk, not a group of hulks.
With the Orca bonuses to the survey scanner range, you can scan the entire belt and then broadcast targets to your hulk pilots.
How do you see distance from asteroid to Hulk from survey scanner?
Armtoe wrote:lol killCause there is no way for miners to protect themselves
Manual post. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1207
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:28:00 -
[138] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:A Hulk simply cannot be made gank proof.
The gankers can just bring one more ship to the party. In fact, one could argue that a well fit Hulk could just make them more determined to gank said Hulk.
There is nothing wrong with ganking Hulks. What is foolish is to pretend that it is the fault of the miner for not fitting his ship correctly.
of course it can't be made "gank proof"
like anything in this game, if somebody wants to kill you and is equipped to do so, they will
the purpose behind fitting a tank on your hulk isn't to make it "gank-proof" but to make yourself a much less worthwhile target
Quote:[Hulk, New Setup 2] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Vespa EC-600 x5
wow, 37k EHP against blasters, requires ~4 catalysts to kill in 0.5 and still mines more m3/minute than any other barge or exhumer in the game, even with a max-yield setup (unless it's a max-skilled Covetor with t2 mining drones at drone interfacing V, but 'heh') a rogue goon |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:32:00 -
[139] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
25M faction mod in paper tanked Hulk... |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
65
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:32:00 -
[140] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:I was talking about the distance between the Orca and one Hulk, not a group of hulks.
With the Orca bonuses to the survey scanner range, you can scan the entire belt and then broadcast targets to your hulk pilots. How do you see distance from asteroid to Hulk from survey scanner?
My Orca is usually parked within 2500m so I can dump ore into the corp hangar... |
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Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2012.06.29 14:15:00 -
[141] - Quote
Did not think it was possible to cram so much bad posting and suggestions in one thread.
Glad we have the "I circumvent forum ban and keep my main in my signature to show it off" guy plus the "I am denser than Angela Merkel" other forum white knights to help us accomplish that.
Let me give a real useful suggestions to miners: mining is a "numbers over time" game. You plan profitability by taking losses as cost of business. With basic precautions you can happily mine in actual useful setups raking in far more profits than losses due to ganks.
If you are so adverse to ever lose a mining ship, then play Asteroids, not EvE. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
602
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Posted - 2012.06.29 14:21:00 -
[142] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:I was talking about the distance between the Orca and one Hulk, not a group of hulks.
With the Orca bonuses to the survey scanner range, you can scan the entire belt and then broadcast targets to your hulk pilots. How do you see distance from asteroid to Hulk from survey scanner? My Orca is usually parked within 2500m so I can dump ore into the corp hangar...
Tractor beam, dump the roid scanner. A real miner mines everything to the last drop.
The thing is not to make it 'easy' for the gankers, so always spread out. But, meh, what I've seen no-one does this, so cluster up and give the gankers an easy big lump of targets all in the same tidy spot.
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 14:28:00 -
[143] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:The thing is not to make it 'easy' for the gankers, so always spread out. But, meh, what I've seen no-one does this, so cluster up and give the gankers an easy big lump of targets all in the same tidy spot.
This is mostly because hisec belts are small. You can pretty much mine everything on belt from one spot. Also can flippers like this because if miners put ore straight into Orca's corp hangar they can't bait and get easy kills. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 14:28:00 -
[144] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote: Tractor beam, dump the roid scanner. A real miner mines everything to the last drop.
The thing is not to make it 'easy' for the gankers, so always spread out. But, meh, what I've seen no-one does this, so cluster up and give the gankers an easy big lump of targets all in the same tidy spot.
My Orca sits around 280k EHP, if someone wants to gank it, they'll need to bring more than a couple catalysts. If they go through that much trouble, more power to them. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 14:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote: This is mostly because hisec belts are small. You can pretty much mine everything on belt from one spot. Also can flippers like this because if miners put ore straight into Orca's corp hangar they can't bait and get easy kills.
This too.
Another thing to mention is dead rats. Even if mining directly in to an Orca, a "can flipper" can steal loot from one of your rat wrecks, which is an aggressive act.
Just hope you don't have your drones out on aggressive mode when that happens :)
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4192
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Posted - 2012.06.29 14:53:00 -
[146] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field 25M faction mod in paper tanked Hulk...
Or you can use a meta resist amp. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
15th Century Portrait
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2012.06.29 14:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:You can also counterbump the bumper. Or move to another belt, or system, or etc. etc. etc. counterbump? how does that work? are we talking about trying to deflect a bullet with a bullet? that sounds... unlikely.
This halaima guy is theoretically avoiding a griefing ban by saying what he's doing has a financial purpose. So theoretically CCP won't stop him. Sure you could warp away, if a cloaked ship wasn't on a head-on collision course. But even if you warp away every time someone warps to the belt (which is what you'd have to do for everyone you don't know), the bumper accomplishes the same goal of denying the miner a chance to mine without actually having to bump him. Leaving to go to another belt will only result in a change of scenery for the Bump Fest.
If someone really wanted to press the issue and get CCP to clarify their position, that person would copy the Halaima model and go to Uedama or Niarja, put up cans at the gates with following note: You must pay [Insert Name] 50 million ISK to move freighters through here, otherwise we'll be bumping you off your alignment and preventing you from flying through. (okay so it would take a few cans). Then we'd see something interesting stuff.
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Betrinna Cantis
19
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Posted - 2012.06.29 17:03:00 -
[148] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Sentamon wrote:The Bumping mechanic made sense with the limitations of 2003 computers, in 2012 CCP can do better. Huh? Guess I need to spell it out ... ships should collide and cause damage to each other. Not bounce off like rubber balls. Volkswagon going 120 kp/h slams into the side of a Semi truck sitting at a stop light.... what happens to the volkswagon??? If you bump a ship with a ship 1/4 its size said ship should explode on impact.
Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares..... |
baltec1
1563
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 17:13:00 -
[149] - Quote
15th Century Portrait wrote: are you saying the miner should warp away if anyone gets anywhere near him? or warps to belt? time to warp may be minimal, but there is still the question of when to warp at all. if the miner is constantly warping away, the bumper accomplishes the same goal without actually executing a bump.
If the target is moving fast at zero transversal then he is going for a bump. Warp out.
Personally I just brick tank the bugger and laugh as my drones jam it. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2133
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Posted - 2012.06.29 19:06:00 -
[150] - Quote
Quote:An aligned and unfitted Hulk, from a dead stop, takes ~17 seconds to spin up it's warp drive and go into warp.
As previously pointed out, you should always be aligned at 3/4 speed for instant warp out ability. Mining/strip lasers have different ranges for a reason, and it isn't for being able to reach more roids while sitting still.
Warping out has always been your best defense, particularly if you use your ability to set standings and share intel so that you can make educated decisions on when this action would be necessary.
If you do have to warp out, and are sure an attempt was made, set your standings and share the information. You do have an intel channel for mining right? RIGHT?
If known gankers/bumpers come into your system, go to another system.
Every other ship in the game must make these same decisions, regardless of size. The Carrier in an anom, the battleship ratting in a belt, mission runners scanned out while running their missions... if someone suspicious warps to your location you must make a decision as to the level of threat and decide if it is wise to warp out so as not to be trapped and overwhelmed by the hostiles friends.
Miners are being asked to follow the game mechanic realities that every other player in the game faces.
Soon you will have even more options for survivability. However if you fail to take the simple steps already available to you, it is doubtful that the new mining barges will change the situation significantly. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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