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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.17 04:29:00 -
[1]
Currently when in a fleet the FC can warp everyone in the fleet on the game grid to a celestial object automatically.
Now, as far as I know. And I have looked. There is no option for the FC to 'Align fleet to' which means that if an FC hits the 'Warp fleet to' button, then all of the small ships jump into warp faster then the big ships, and thus arrive before the big ships. Usually this means the small ships have to take aggro (When that is the big ship's job).
I would like a button that could align a fleet to the object automatically without going into warp. I don't want to have to tell the fleet to align to the target because there was always be people who don't align or mess up. That way when I hit 'warp fleet to' the fleet warps together.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.17 04:58:00 -
[2]
I like to have a button for FC to activate guns/modules on fleet ships. Many people tend to sleep during the fleet you know and some don't know how to allign. Then i could go afk after undocking and be happy cause i have lots of killmails when i come back and the FC is happy \o/ ------ I'm just a lonely pirate on my way to ascension |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.17 06:28:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Slade Hoo I like to have a button for FC to activate guns/modules on fleet ships. Many people tend to sleep during the fleet you know and some don't know how to allign. Then i could go afk after undocking and be happy cause i have lots of killmails when i come back and the FC is happy \o/
Thank you for your smartass input.
An FC can already warp a fleet to a celestial object. I'm just asking for an align to so the fleet warps TOGETHER.
Really, is that such a hard concept to grasp?
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 06:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jerid Verges Currently when in a fleet the FC can warp everyone in the fleet on the game grid to a celestial object automatically.
Snip...
I would like a button that could align a fleet to the object automatically without going into warp. I don't want to have to tell the fleet to align to the target because there was always be people who don't align or mess up. That way when I hit 'warp fleet to' the fleet warps together.
While I can understand your vexation, I would recommend that your corp/ alliance whatever, run a few more training ops. While it might make life easier in the short term the option you ask for is just another way of letting people get away with being careless. Might be important for your regular FC's to see first hand who the less attentive members of the fleet are, so as to offer them more training and/ or ask them to pay attention.
Screwing up once is one thing, letting people get into the habit of screwing up is another. Make sure you know who the weak links are and sort them out, or kick them out tbh.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.17 06:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Abbot Laarkin
Originally by: Jerid Verges Currently when in a fleet the FC can warp everyone in the fleet on the game grid to a celestial object automatically.
Snip...
I would like a button that could align a fleet to the object automatically without going into warp. I don't want to have to tell the fleet to align to the target because there was always be people who don't align or mess up. That way when I hit 'warp fleet to' the fleet warps together.
While I can understand your vexation, I would recommend that your corp/ alliance whatever, run a few more training ops. While it might make life easier in the short term the option you ask for is just another way of letting people get away with being careless. Might be important for your regular FC's to see first hand who the less attentive members of the fleet are, so as to offer them more training and/ or ask them to pay attention.
Screwing up once is one thing, letting people get into the habit of screwing up is another. Make sure you know who the weak links are and sort them out, or kick them out tbh.
Why do we even have "Warp fleet to" then?
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.17 06:52:00 -
[6]
Oh i forgot....fleet jump is highly necessary! ------ I'm just a lonely pirate on my way to ascension |
Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Why do we even have "Warp fleet to" then?
Align fleet has very little bearing on anything other than people being lazy/ afk. it would not change the speed at which you could align (unless you are asking for that also).
Warp fleet on the other hand initiates a simultaneous warp that restricts the warp speed of every ship in the fleet to that of the lowest player, regardless of ship type/ skills. This is the only practical way of achieving a simultaneous landing on target.
Big difference imo.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 17/02/2010 07:16:17
Originally by: Abbot Laarkin
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Why do we even have "Warp fleet to" then?
Align fleet has very little bearing on anything other than people being lazy/ afk. it would not change the speed at which you could align (unless you are asking for that also).
Warp fleet on the other hand initiates a simultaneous warp that restricts the warp speed of every ship in the fleet to that of the lowest player, regardless of ship type/ skills. This is the only practical way of achieving a simultaneous landing on target.
Big difference imo.
What are you talking about? Warp fleet doesn't do that. Warp fleet causes all of the ships to warp to target.
I have NEVER warped a fleet and had all of the ships warp in simultaneously unless all of the ships were aligned beforehand. That is precisely what this suggestion is aimed at.
An align fleet would allow an FC to initiate a warp where all of the ships hit the target at the same time.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
What are you talking about? Warp fleet doesn't do that. Warp fleet causes all of the ships to warp to target.
I have NEVER warped a fleet and had all of the ships warp in simultaneously unless all of the ships were aligned beforehand. That is precisely what this suggestion is aimed at.
An align fleet would allow an FC to initiate a warp where all of the ships hit the target at the same time.
1: Tell fleet to align to target ( Well trained fleet Aligns to stated target. With or without indicating when they are up to speed (well trained FC already knows)
2: FC hits "warp fleet to..." ( Well trained, and now fully aligned fleet which is up to speed, warps simultaneously. please note that while in warp fleet "Converges" into one clump and lands together).
This is how it's done, it's not that hard. Practice with your friends in high sec if reqd. Proper travel discipline is a very basic fleet requirement and no time spent learning it is a waste.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Kalin Fisic
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:32:00 -
[10]
From what I have experienced, if an FC issues a warp command the fleet will warp all at the same speed, regardless of whether they were aligned or not. I know this to be true, unless it was recently changed, because I have not been aligned when an FC hit the warp button, was in an interceptor yet warping at 3.0 AU. So this means either the fleet will automatically warp at the FC's speed or at the speed of the slowest warper. I haven't confirmed which one but I have experienced warping at slower speeds because of a fleet warp even when not aligned. So your premised is flawed. The frigs will only arrive before the big ships if they self warped or the big ships weren't aligned. So really this is all on how well the FC can organize the fleet and how disciplined the fleet members are.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kalin Fisic From what I have experienced, if an FC issues a warp command the fleet will warp all at the same speed, regardless of whether they were aligned or not. I know this to be true, unless it was recently changed, because I have not been aligned when an FC hit the warp button, was in an interceptor yet warping at 3.0 AU. So this means either the fleet will automatically warp at the FC's speed or at the speed of the slowest warper. I haven't confirmed which one but I have experienced warping at slower speeds because of a fleet warp even when not aligned. So your premised is flawed. The frigs will only arrive before the big ships if they self warped or the big ships weren't aligned. So really this is all on how well the FC can organize the fleet and how disciplined the fleet members are.
Warp speed is dependant on the slowest in the gang, Align speed is not affected by a "warp fleet" command. This is why proper discipline is required. Again, if the FC or fleet members are not experienced an Align fleet command would only be effective if it also initiated warp, otherwise FC needs to know when all ships are up to speed.
Oh, and in most of our gangs inties, dictors, recons etc. will be self warping anyway ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kalin Fisic From what I have experienced, if an FC issues a warp command the fleet will warp all at the same speed, regardless of whether they were aligned or not. I know this to be true, unless it was recently changed, because I have not been aligned when an FC hit the warp button, was in an interceptor yet warping at 3.0 AU. So this means either the fleet will automatically warp at the FC's speed or at the speed of the slowest warper. I haven't confirmed which one but I have experienced warping at slower speeds because of a fleet warp even when not aligned. So your premised is flawed. The frigs will only arrive before the big ships if they self warped or the big ships weren't aligned. So really this is all on how well the FC can organize the fleet and how disciplined the fleet members are.
Umm...noooo...Because, you see, as the FC whenever I have ever given a 'Warp Fleet to' command, all ships automatically align to target and warp. And ship that can align faster always gets there first. Which means the frigs and cruisers in my fleet have always arrived at the mission area before my BC.
As I have done this before. I can honestly confirm that Warp to fleet does not do that.
Originally by: Abbot Laarkin
This is how it's done, it's not that hard. Practice with your friends in high sec if reqd. Proper travel discipline is a very basic fleet requirement and no time spent learning it is a waste.
That's nice you enjoy tediously waiting for all of your fleet to get the message 'Hey align to target' I don't. This isn't about 'practice' this is about skipping that tediousness in favor of being able to make some last minute checks. Especially since I can't tell if everyone got the message.
And hey, what if we're warping to a mission area? Nobody can align to the mission area unless they have the mission. That means the fleet HAS to warp in using the FC's 'Warp fleet to' and WILL be broken up.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 08:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Umm...noooo...Because, you see, as the FC whenever I have ever given a 'Warp Fleet to' command, all ships automatically align to target and warp. And ship that can align faster always gets there first. Which means the frigs and cruisers in my fleet have always arrived at the mission area before my BC.
As I have done this before. I can honestly confirm that Warp to fleet does not do that.
Aha, should of said this was a specific mission problem I was assuming PvP. (my bad). Assuming You (the BC) wish to be on-grid first... Warp to mission---> tell fleet mates to warp to you. Problem solved. If you don't, just warp fleet---> wait till your mates warp---> cancel your own warp.
Originally by: Jerid Verges That's nice you enjoy tediously waiting for all of your fleet to get the message 'Hey align to target' I don't. This isn't about 'practice' this is about skipping that tediousness in favor of being able to make some last minute checks. Especially since I can't tell if everyone got the message.
In any scenario PvE or Pvp, you should of made those checks before undocking, god knows I've made a few mistakes (forgetting to accept the mission being a classic). However in a purely mission scenario I honestly can't see this as a major problem, I've run in countless mission gangs this has never been raised as a problem in our fleets.
Not really sure why you need it tbh? ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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T'Challa Wanakanda
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Posted - 2010.02.17 08:12:00 -
[14]
This would be convenient for aligning to tactical bookmarks that are not in line with celestials. Especially for instance aligning to an enemy "safe spot" that your covops scanned down so you can go in for the kill.
But since you specifically state is would be for aligning to celestials the above criticisms apply. Your fleet is undisciplined and your pilots are lazy/inattentive.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 08:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: T'Challa Wanakanda This would be convenient for aligning to tactical bookmarks that are not in line with celestials. Especially for instance aligning to an enemy "safe spot" that your covops scanned down so you can go in for the kill.
But since you specifically state is would be for aligning to celestials the above criticisms apply. Your fleet is undisciplined and your pilots are lazy/inattentive.
Now this I can understand ( cov-ops scout reporting in o7). I agree it would be nice, but I'm in two minds as to whether I'd like to see it in-game. My job as scout is to make the BM's and lead my gang to them. As it stands a fair amount of skill is reqd. to get a gang on target without dropping them too close/ far/ on my own head etc. Good pilots and good comms discipline are what make the difference here, and I for one like it that way ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.17 08:31:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 17/02/2010 08:33:33
Originally by: Abbot Laarkin
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Umm...noooo...Because, you see, as the FC whenever I have ever given a 'Warp Fleet to' command, all ships automatically align to target and warp. And ship that can align faster always gets there first. Which means the frigs and cruisers in my fleet have always arrived at the mission area before my BC.
As I have done this before. I can honestly confirm that Warp to fleet does not do that.
Aha, should of said this was a specific mission problem I was assuming PvP. (my bad). Assuming You (the BC) wish to be on-grid first... Warp to mission---> tell fleet mates to warp to you. Problem solved. If you don't, just warp fleet---> wait till your mates warp---> cancel your own warp.
Yeah I'd love to take all the aggro in a mission for about the minute it takes the fleet to catch up to me (Since they need to wait until I am done warping and I need to tell them that in chat).
What I would >love< would be to just be able to warp my fleet together without having to worry about all this inanity Christ. You'd think tens of thousands of years in the future we'd be able to coordinate a simple fleet jump on a computer, but no, we have to pass notes around in chat.
Quote:
Originally by: Jerid Verges That's nice you enjoy tediously waiting for all of your fleet to get the message 'Hey align to target' I don't. This isn't about 'practice' this is about skipping that tediousness in favor of being able to make some last minute checks. Especially since I can't tell if everyone got the message.
In any scenario PvE or Pvp, you should of made those checks before undocking, god knows I've made a few mistakes (forgetting to accept the mission being a classic). However in a purely mission scenario I honestly can't see this as a major problem, I've run in countless mission gangs this has never been raised as a problem in our fleets.
Not really sure why you need it tbh?
Checks like. "Okay everyone know wtf we're doing" "Everyone know what the primary is"
I would like to be able to focus on more things then just "Okay is everyone aligned? We're going to warp. ARE YOU SURE EVERYONE IS ALIGNED? Ricky wasn't aligned last time, I'm tired of playing warp games!"
Quote: But since you specifically state is would be for aligning to celestials the above criticisms apply.
Except for the fact I only gave it as an example. Way to take me out of context.
Quote: Your fleet is undisciplined and your pilots are lazy/inattentive.
Nice insult neanderthal. You have no idea what we do in our ops. We're not undisciplined, we're not lazy. We're a group of friends that want to be able to make a uniform jump without having to jump hoops. Stop being an Elitist ass who thinks he knows all the **** about Eve.
EDIT: The only thing anybody is objecting to here is that all these people with voice chat and are so dedicated to the game don't want things to be easy for the newer players. Why don't we just take out 'Align to' for everyone? No more aligning to.
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mundus123
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Posted - 2010.02.17 09:03:00 -
[17]
I have to agree with the first posters, this would automate fleets too much. As is we have the ability to do a perfect fleet warp in all situations.
For missions, id say you have two options, covops gets the bm then you can circulate it around the fleet to engage an align. Or engage a fleet warp, everyone cancels warp then instantly aligns in the direction that they were previously aligning to. If done right, youll do a gang warp.
Now the main reason that i dont like this idea is tha tas fc, it is your job to worry about is everyone doing everything right, such as aligning. Its part of being fc, you have to make sure your fleet is organized enough not to die.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 09:04:00 -
[18]
OK. Before things get a little overheated I'd like to state that I was in no way attempting to flame you. I was honestly confused as to why this was a major issue for you, and was trying to give some helpful advice.
The following is also meant as helpful advice: You have stated that you are in a BC and that it is your job to pull aggro. In this circumstance the method for you to land first has already been described. If it is taking your fleet-mates a whole minute to join you there is definitely something wrong. Discuss with your friends what might be slowing them down, it's good to talk.
When you initiate fleet warp, make sure your friends cancel the warp (ctrl+space, once they are aligned) and immediately set their speed to max. This way they will be aligned and up to speed in the direction of your mission, when you tell them to warp to you they will insta-warp.
If at all possible use voice comms, it is far superior to text-based chat. I understand that this is not always an option, but if you can it will speed things up immensely.
Set up a basic set of fleet do's and dont's which all pilots in your group will be expected to follow unless specifically told otherwise. This is particularly effective in mission gangs as missions are highly predictable.
Find out who the slowest aligner in the gang is, have one of the predetermined "do's" be that he puts an X in fleet when he is aligned and up to speed. No conversations/ questions reqd.
When quoting multiple sources in one post, especially if you feel that one of them is openly insulting you and you intend to respond in kind, be so good as to insert the name of the source in the quote. That is simple courtesy.
Again, I do not post this as a flame, I am trying to help you with an issue that appears to concern you greatly. CCP may or may not include the option you request, but untill they do the above might be of some use to you.
Fly Safe 07, Abbot Laarkin.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.17 09:24:00 -
[19]
oh yeah, lets turn us into even more fleet drones
No such feature is required, if people are sleeping during the fleets its not the fault of the game, simultaneous warp is possible with the right people respecting fleet discipline.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 10:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
EDIT: The only thing anybody is objecting to here is that all these people with voice chat and are so dedicated to the game don't want things to be any easy on the newer players. Why don't we just take out 'Align to' for everyone? No more aligning to.
As the only person who mentioned voice chat I'm assuming this little bit of sarcasm is directed at me?
This is not about being Easy/ hard for newer players, or indeed older players. This is about how far we should go to "dumb down" a game that tends to reward those who are willing to put in that little extra effort to gain an edge.
From your posts it seems that you are mainly concerned with the PvE aspects of this "feature", fair enough, looking at it solely in that light I would agree with you 100%. However, a feature like this affects everyone and as such will illicit a response from those who view it from another perspective, namely PvP ops.
As I mentioned I am (most of the time) a scout for our gangs, I have spent a fair bit of time and effort learning (and hopefully perfecting) those skills which you may consider "tedious". I have done this in order to give my gang an "edge" over those who simply cannot be bothered to "waste" such time. Looked at from this perspective I would consider this feature to detract from a profession that I, and others, consider an integral part of any fleet operation.
Never forget, One persons "fix", is another persons "break". By all means suggest anything you feel is relevant to improving the game-play, but don't be surprised if others disagree with you.
Peace. A.L. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Bal'Ayle
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Posted - 2010.02.17 12:08:00 -
[21]
simplest solution to this would simply have the current warp fleet button, activate warp only when all ships are at top speed and aligned, presently when you press the button it aligns everyone anyway but some ships agility would be lower or higher depending on skills class and fittings, and then they must accelerate to top speed before the warp kicks in,
at the moment all ships warp almost at the same time as their counterparts in similar ships - / + skill differences so for instance 3 abbadons pointing randomly get warped to a belt, if they all have the same skills they will warp in order of who faces the belt first as they would start accelerating first. another way to do this would be to have squads organised into ship types, so TANK squad could be warped remotely first followed by TACKLE or something similar if you catch my drift.
alternatively, FC should call out people to align to warp and when all are good warp them. or simply have BS align on landing so there is no wasted time between jumps or regrouping. idealy all players should be aware of what is going on enough to at least point themselves in the right direction =]
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Nuts Nougat
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.17 12:15:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Nuts Nougat on 17/02/2010 12:17:06 You are aware that your fleet members can align before you hit "warp fleet" and you will all land at the same time right?
Originally by: Bal'Ayle simplest solution to this would simply have the current warp fleet button, activate warp only when all ships are at top speed and aligned, presently when you press the button it aligns everyone anyway but some ships agility would be lower or higher depending on skills class and fittings, and then they must accelerate to top speed before the warp kicks in,
at the moment all ships warp almost at the same time as their counterparts in similar ships - / + skill differences so for instance 3 abbadons pointing randomly get warped to a belt, if they all have the same skills they will warp in order of who faces the belt first as they would start accelerating first. another way to do this would be to have squads organised into ship types, so TANK squad could be warped remotely first followed by TACKLE or something similar if you catch my drift.
alternatively, FC should call out people to align to warp and when all are good warp them. or simply have BS align on landing so there is no wasted time between jumps or regrouping. idealy all players should be aware of what is going on enough to at least point themselves in the right direction =]
I like this. I'd make a spy char and grief enemy fleets by not aligning and making them wait forever... ---
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.17 12:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bal'Ayle simplest solution to this would simply have the current warp fleet button, activate warp only when all ships are at top speed and aligned, presently when you press the button it aligns everyone anyway but some ships agility would be lower or higher depending on skills class and fittings, and then they must accelerate to top speed before the warp kicks in,
in other words, i would possibly lose my ship because some dumbass was not properly aligned??
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Bal'Ayle
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Posted - 2010.02.17 12:42:00 -
[24]
sigh* i did not say it was restrictive and only allowed warp when all ships were aligned i meant the engaged warp uninterrupted would only shoot you all of once you were all aligned
similarly when someone warps fleet and one person disengages warp does it stop the fleet warping? no.
so keeping that in mind, the disengaging ships would disengage the command to warp not effecting the rest of the fleets cohesion in exactly the same way as present command to warp fleet does not stop because one person isn't warping.
simply means the actual warp would not engage until all participating ships are at optimal speed ensuring whole fleet drop (already means you all warp at same speed regardless of unique warp speeds)
sorry for the confusion
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Minchurra
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.17 12:57:00 -
[25]
I understand how annoying it is to do a fleet warp, only to have half remain on the gate beacuse they weren't paying attention and didnt align. That said, a fleet commander is a commander, not a controller, you aren't there to micromanage every ship, thats up to the individual pilots.
What I would like to see introduced is the ability for individuals to align to a fleet member, currently you can only warp to. The work around is to align to a celestial in his general direction, but thats not always possible if hes at a deep safe.
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Xyfu
Minmatar Corporate Scum On the Rocks
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Posted - 2010.02.17 17:52:00 -
[26]
(Didn't read thread.)
The squad/wing/fleet commander's option to warp squad/wing/fleet sets everyone's warp speed to the lowest squad/wing/fleet member's warp speed, so when you have an squad/wing/fleet (god I'm tired of typing that) aligned, everyone lands at once.
I think this should be looked at from a different angle, and give players the option to set warp speed themselves.
(Also, I'd find it amusing to set warp speed to 0.1 AU/s, and stay on grid for 4 seconds. (I think 1AU is 100kkm.)) _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in. |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.02.17 22:29:00 -
[27]
TBH I'd rather they take the fleet warp option AWAY. Bloody annoying, who's flying my ****ing ship anyway.
--------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Xyfu
Minmatar Corporate Scum On the Rocks
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Posted - 2010.02.18 01:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Insa Rexion TBH I'd rather they take the fleet warp option AWAY. Bloody annoying, who's flying my ****ing ship anyway.
LRN2/Ctrl+Space.
Alternatively, LRN2/trust. _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in. |
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