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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 09:21:00 -
[1]
(1) If you played other MMOs a lot before EVE, try and forget everything you learned in them as much as possible, particularly any expectations you have about other players being limited in how they can interact with you, and even more particularly any ideas about character advancement being the aim of the game rather than just another tool to advance your goals like wealth, assets, game knowledge and friends.
(2) If any warnings pop up, read them.
(3) While you will often be told "trust no-one", that's not quite true. What you should do is treat trusting anyone as if it were gambling. What are the odds? What are the stakes? What can I afford to lose? What's in it for him? Scams and ganks are perfectly legal in EVE, even in hi-sec.
(4) When older players give you advice about fitting ships, for the love of god, at least try following their suggestions.
(5) Don't listen to the morons who will advise you to train nothing but Learning skills to start with. Yes, doing that is more "efficient" when it comes to accumulating SP, but you're paying to play the game. A good rule of thumb is to spend no more than 50% of your training time on Learnings until you have basics at 4, advanced at 3. Then just leave them alone for a month or two.
(6) Don't listen to the people who tell you that you shouldn't leave hi-sec "until you're ready" and then tell you you will need x million SP or y ship class or z amount of ISK. You're "ready" to leave hi-sec when you want to leave hi-sec. I know people who left to live in 0.0 on their second day. I went to 0.0 after about 2 months, and I've frequently wished I went earlier. I would however recommend completing all the tutorials before leaving hi-sec.
(7) Don't listen to the idiot moron griefers who spread the pernicious lie that you need 10/20/40M SP and a Battleship/HAC/Dreadnaught "to be competitive" at PvP. Player skill beats character skill in PVP. The best way for a new player to "compete" at PvP is to get out there and do it. Want to learn to PvP? Join Red vs Blue. They will accept anyone no matter what. They aren't a training corp; they exist purely to provide fun PvP on demand in Hi-sec. You can leave or rejoin at any time. If you get a taste for blood, you can get some great training with Agony Unleashed, who will teach you PVP procedures more formally and thoroughly.
(8) You don't have to grind missions to make ISK. Missioning is the EVE equivalent of being on welfare - a boring, low-level income for people who can't find a real job. There's a huge and complex economy out there, with a lot of opportunities for a thoughtful, alert player with a fast, cheap ship.
(9) Do ALL the tutorials.
(10) Everything I've told you is a cheap dirty lie designed to make you lose your ship to me and quit EVE, because I'm a nasty amoral griefer who doesn't want filthy noobs like you cluttering up my nice, l33t game.
Welcome to EVE.
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Tolrok Qorte
Minmatar Blackjack Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:40:00 -
[2]
2 is probably my favorite, just because there've been so many confused, angry newbies that would have been fine had they read the warning popup.
8 however, is just beautiful. I expect much ranting. :)
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Avo Daith
Mentors Administration
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Posted - 2010.02.20 13:56:00 -
[3]
well written and entirely correct post. Except (10), which is the only one some people will think is true, probably the people who would benefit most from the rest of them. _________________________ Join Channel 'Mentors' for PVP and PVE help and advice ingame without changing corps. Click Channels and Mailing lists > Channels > Join > Mentors |
Iria Ahrens
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.02.20 14:00:00 -
[4]
Since you mentioned the 2 day pvp, I'll just reference the link in my sig. It's not a new 2 day player, but it does show how effective player knowledge can enable a low skill frigate to take on Battlecruisers and other interesting fights. --
EVE is about balls, brains, and paranoia. SP comes in a distant fourth place. |
Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:47:00 -
[5]
Great post and all of it right on the money.
Kudos Malcanis. Thanks for this.
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vaseel
Caldari Ministers Of Destruction. Green Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:50:00 -
[6]
All but 8 is spot on. Come one, 10 million + an hour is welfare level? Boring, yes. Poorhouse, no.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Avo Daith well written and entirely correct post. Except (10), which is the only one some people will think is true, probably the people who would benefit most from the rest of them.
The defining characteristic of good advice is that it is not taken by those who would most benefit from it.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:23:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Malcanis on 20/02/2010 17:24:35
Originally by: vaseel All but 8 is spot on. Come one, 10 million + an hour is welfare level? Boring, yes. Poorhouse, no.
There are much better ways to make ISK than by grinding. Dont get me wrong - I run missions for ISK myself when I'm too tired or hungover to think. But it's pretty much the lowest level of play, and it's dull as hell.
By all means, have a mission ship set up so that if everything else goes wrong (or, like me, you're just not in the mood for more involved effort) you can make some baseline income. I just don't want new players thinking it's the best way to make ISK, when there are much more lucrative, and much more enjoyable ways to make ISK, even for new players. Especially for new players.
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Rhaetic
Black Ice Consortium
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:29:00 -
[9]
A good post, but about those missions...
Some people actually enjoy them. I know I do, especially when I'm out with my friends knocking them down quickly.
Like everything else in EVE, you should do what you want, not necessarily what is the best ISK/hour.
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Virgil Travis
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 20/02/2010 17:24:35
Originally by: vaseel All but 8 is spot on. Come one, 10 million + an hour is welfare level? Boring, yes. Poorhouse, no.
There are much better ways to make ISK than by grinding. Dont get me wrong - I run missions for ISK myself when I'm too tired or hungover to think. But it's pretty much the lowest level of play, and it's dull as hell.
By all means, have a mission ship set up so that if everything else goes wrong (or, like me, you're just not in the mood for more involved effort) you can make some baseline income. I just don't want new players thinking it's the best way to make ISK, when there are much more lucrative, and much more enjoyable ways to make ISK, even for new players. Especially for new players.
True that they can be very boring, I'm running some myself to pad the wallet for future ventures. The other more lucrative methods, trading, production (maybe), wormholes, etc, are things that you grow into as your knowledge and experience in the game develops. You can use missions to gain some capital to buy ships and such then start trying out a few of the more well paid and less time consuming ways to build your wallet.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:06:00 -
[11]
Trade and production (rigs) were the primary ways I funded my PvP as a rookie in low-sec before I was able to keep it rolling primarily on ransoms and loots sales alone.
I did do some missioning in the very beginning (all in low-sec), however, the point might well be that missioning for isk is like welfare also in that once you latch your lips around the isk faucet it's hard to let go of the teat.
As an aside and social commentary, I also find that players that have their lips glued to the isk faucet have a much harder time saying anything intelligible or constructive about the game.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malcanis (4) When older players give you advice about fitting ships, for the love of god, at least try following their suggestions.
I'd exercise caution on this one. Many 'older' players speak with apparent authority on things that they know very little about. Opinion is presented as fact and guidelines are spoken as if they were rules. Spend 10 minutes in the help channel and you'll see what I mean.
By all means, listen to advice...but seek multiple opinions if you can and don't take anyone's word as gospel unless they've proven they know what thy're talking about.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 20:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: Malcanis (4) When older players give you advice about fitting ships, for the love of god, at least try following their suggestions.
I'd exercise caution on this one. Many 'older' players speak with apparent authority on things that they know very little about. Opinion is presented as fact and guidelines are spoken as if they were rules. Spend 10 minutes in the help channel and you'll see what I mean.
By all means, listen to advice...but seek multiple opinions if you can and don't take anyone's word as gospel unless they've proven they know what thy're talking about.
Fair point, but even if they're not perfect, they're usually not the total one-of-each-weapontype-wrong-kind-of-damage-mod shieldarmourhulltank lolfits I see all too often on killboards.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:03:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/02/2010 22:04:37
Originally by: Malcanis Missioning is the EVE equivalent of being on welfare - a boring, low-level income for people who can't find a real job.
Here's a small analogy between "EVE" and "RL" occupations
Mining in highsec -> burger flipping Mining in 0.0/wormholes -> garbage man Mission-running -> retail employee (supermarket stacker L1, supermarket cashier L2, department store L3, specialized boutique L4, personal shopper L5) Mercenary work -> bouncer, bodyguard Pirate -> alleyway mugger Manufacturer -> engineer T2 BPO owner -> software developer inventor -> software bootlegger Hauler -> well, umm, yeah, hauler Trader -> stockmarket player moon-miners -> mining or oil companies in conflict areas moon reactions -> smelters, refineries alliance leader -> multi-level marketing CEO
Other than that and #10, almost completely spot on
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:46:00 -
[15]
Nice post, agree with all except the last bit (put in to check teh reading skillz)
The point about missions is the same for all of the game, never do anything you don't like to do and there are many ways to earn ISK.
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Freya Sejanus
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:55:00 -
[16]
Nice list. Can I ask you to expand on point 6, and explin why you wish you had vacated high sec earlier?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 23:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Freya Sejanus Nice list. Can I ask you to expand on point 6, and explin why you wish you had vacated high sec earlier?
I didn't really achieve or learn anything much in hi-sec the last 2-3 weeks I was there. In contrast to being in 0.0 where I learned a great deal about a wide range of subjects very quickly, and also made a lot more ISK, and had a LOT more excitement, lost a lot more ships, and made some very good friends.
In short, I had much more fun.
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Quinn Garrett
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:24:00 -
[18]
I've been playing for about a month, and all the points are great ones really... to add to it a bit, right click on everything. You have to love to read to love Eve (and I do indeed love both.) Also, if you have some disposable income, because the cost of activation and subscription is such a good deal, consider buying some plex to start off with. a 500 million isk buffer is good to experiment with. You'll find out which fittings YOU like, and which you hate. You'll find a style.
It's such a huge, sprawling game, it also pays to be in no hurry. I make short term goals for myself, and thus far, I'm having an incredible amount of fun. I realized what I missed in so many other games was the presence of players that want to ruin my day. I know it sounds somewhat masochistic, but I enjoy the sense of danger. I'm no sore loser. You will get blown up. Learn to deal with it, and learn from it. It makes the whole experience a ton more interesting know other players are out there waiting to blow you to bits.
Oh... and train Drones... they are simply incredible for the new player. they give you a nice buffer to allow you to take your time in combat and assess what exactly is going on. Love my little drones.
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Arpad Elo
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Posted - 2010.02.21 02:23:00 -
[19]
This is one of the best posts I've read in a while. I'd change it a little by avoiding repeating the thing about all the tutorials (mining is for ... other people), and emphasizing that mission running is something that you can use to develop the same SP that you will hopefully use to get into pvp (if that's your thing).
The key thing that jumped out at me was:
"...and even more particularly any ideas about character advancement being the aim of the game rather than just another tool to advance your goals like wealth, assets, game knowledge and friends."
This is basically gold. Sorry to say that other stuff; I'm a nit. But this stuff is gold.
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Samantha U
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Posted - 2010.02.21 02:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arpad Elo This is one of the best posts I've read in a while. I'd change it a little by avoiding repeating the thing about all the tutorials (mining is for ... other people), and emphasizing that mission running is something that you can use to develop the same SP that you will hopefully use to get into pvp (if that's your thing).
The key thing that jumped out at me was:
"...and even more particularly any ideas about character advancement being the aim of the game rather than just another tool to advance your goals like wealth, assets, game knowledge and friends."
This is basically gold. Sorry to say that other stuff; I'm a nit. But this stuff is gold.
I think the recent whines by Chesterr and Tiberizzle about low sp character vs high sp characters illustrated that there is more to having fun in EVE than just how many skill points you have.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.21 12:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Arpad Elo This is one of the best posts I've read in a while. I'd change it a little by avoiding repeating the thing about all the tutorials (mining is for ... other people)
How will people know if they like mining unless they try it? In any case, even if you dont like to mine, it's good to know how it works. The fox has to know how the rabbit thinks in order to catch him.
Originally by: Arpad Elo
, and emphasizing that mission running is something that you can use to develop the same SP that you will hopefully use to get into pvp (if that's your thing).
Whilst this is true, mission running seems to somehow corrode player skill at PVP. Or the will to PVP. Or focus. Something, anyhow.
The key thing that jumped out at me was:
Originally by: Arpad Elo
"...and even more particularly any ideas about character advancement being the aim of the game rather than just another tool to advance your goals like wealth, assets, game knowledge and friends."
This is basically gold. Sorry to say that other stuff; I'm a nit. But this stuff is gold.
This is one of the biggest things that EvE-bashers just dont get. It's perfectly obvious why they have this misconception, but the sooner it's corrected, the better. There's a reason why that is the first point.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2010.02.21 14:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Quinn Garrett I realized what I missed in so many other games was the presence of players that want to ruin my day. I know it sounds somewhat masochistic, but I enjoy the sense of danger. I'm no sore loser. You will get blown up. Learn to deal with it, and learn from it. It makes the whole experience a ton more interesting know other players are out there waiting to blow you to bits.
Once you realise this is part of the challenge of the game even relatively mundane tasks can become immensely satisfying.
Getting complements from local low sec gate campers after successfully scouting and moving multiple indies of fuel into a w-hole in low sec made for a surprisingly interesting evening, whereas if there was no challenges it would have just been boring POS grind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards. |
beor oranes
Caldari The Capitalist Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.02.21 20:17:00 -
[23]
I would add to point 7; Eve Uni is a very good place to start as well as they give not only PvP lessons but general Eve lessons as well.
Everything (like everyone else has said) is true except point 10, though even then I'm not sure about this bit "I'm a nasty amoral griefer"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.21 21:07:00 -
[24]
Just ask Matrix Skye, he will vouch for me being a griefer.
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Ranzabar
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:46:00 -
[25]
10 isn't true...or is it. Thats the only thing that I'd tell people in day one. You'll do well to look at everything people tell you with a suspect eye, but not so much that you get paranoid and leave the game. Its like a guy who wants to sell you his car. May be a great car, but you'll have to be the one who decides if it is, or isn't.
Eve is like life for 15 buck a month.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.15 08:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ranzabar
Eve is like life for 15 buck a month.
Also you get to solve your problems with lasers, which I'm hardly ever allowed to do in real life.
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Koyo Zerin
Gallente Thukk U
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Posted - 2010.03.15 09:08:00 -
[27]
Quote: All but 8 is spot on. Come one, 10 million + an hour is welfare level? Boring, yes. Poorhouse, no.
For level 4s, you may well be right. However, as a 2 month old player who still remembers "the beginning" pretty well, I can tell you that level 1 and 2 mission payouts are horrible, especially since new characters can't blitz them quite like older characters can. However, the payout is much better if you go out into lowsec or 0.0, so that's yet another reason to leave high sec early.
Also, if you're in a frigate in lowsec, you really never have to worry about gatecamps, as a frigate can get through most all of them without getting locked. Bubbles will get you in 0.0, but lowsec is really pretty safe if you take basic precautions. And the added danger element makes it a lot more fun.
Oh, and I strongly, strongly second both the suggestion to do ALL of the tutorials and the suggestion to join Eve University. Both are amazing in helping you sort out the variety of things there are to do in Eve.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.03.16 14:18:00 -
[28]
As a relatively new player, I agree with a lot of what's said here. Point 3 on trust, whenever I was interacting with someone on Eve I'd think "what do I stand to gain if they help me out" vs "what do I lose if they rip me off". As long as the gains are high and the losses are low, go for it. Ideally anytime your trust is betrayed, you should be able to shrug your shoulders and say "well it was worth the risk and I didn't even lose that much". Point 5 on learning skills is very smart. I'd go so far as to say you could ignore learning skills entirely once you reach 4/3, or atleast until you've run out of meaningful skills to train for your primary profession. The learning skills beyond 4/3 take nearly a year to pay off anyway. Point 8 on missions is quite true, and I'd say the same for highsec mining. It is boring and I got burned out twice doing nothing but level 3 mission running. Do some other fun stuff for a little while, even if its less ISK/hour. The game should be about fun/hour too.
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.03.16 17:32:00 -
[29]
One I think you missed....
Don't go AFK in a hostile location.
I was ratting in a wormhole the other day. Saw a Probe (the ship class) pop up on scanner. Used combat probes to scan him down.... warped there...
He was sitting at the wormhole entrance close enough to jump out. I locked his frigate with mey BC and killed it. His pod did not move, nor did it jump. Popped the pod and was wondering if I just helped a noob level up.
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Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.18 14:08:00 -
[30]
I agree with Malc's points, with the caveat to (8) being that running missions is going to be the most "familiar" activity to most people, and therefore (imho) going to be the most common isk making activity.
Join Eve Universityfor a good basic education in the game, and a place to develope contacts for later in the game.
Last but not least, friends make everything in game better, even mission grinding.
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