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Where's the love for PvE Pulse Paladins?

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Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.02.22 09:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Hirana Yoshida 2 barrels has just enough oomph to pop rat BCs thus wasting minimal damage output. you lost me on that one, but most BCs pop in 1 volley (that would be 4 shots) from my tachys. also if it goes over only 1 or 2 guns will activate and I can put the other 2-3 on another target. so are you saying you can kill a bc with 2 shots, or 2 vollies? 2 gun-groups of two guns each. One group is just enough to pop BCs .. depends on hit quality obviously, but if its left with a sliver of hull you can let drones finish it off and move on. Tachyons are only worth it for me on the extremely BS heavy missions where tracking is irrelevant .. I flatly refuse to fill umpteen slots with tracking, much rather use "better" guns
Amanda Eidolo Core Industrialist Resurrected	Posted - 2010.02.22 09:28:00 - [62] Originally by: Wod Quote: I propose that a Paladin fitted with T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals. It's the truth. Quote: T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals Quote: T2 Tachyons using the same crystals Quote: Tachyons pro tip, they cant use Scorch Pfft! You're nit-picking. Scorch is not needed; Xray is a perfect substitute. And it's PROTIP.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.02.22 10:03:00 - [63] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Hirana Yoshida 2 barrels has just enough oomph to pop rat BCs thus wasting minimal damage output. you lost me on that one, but most BCs pop in 1 volley (that would be 4 shots) from my tachys. also if it goes over only 1 or 2 guns will activate and I can put the other 2-3 on another target. so are you saying you can kill a bc with 2 shots, or 2 vollies? 2 gun-groups of two guns each. One group is just enough to pop BCs .. depends on hit quality obviously, but if its left with a sliver of hull you can let drones finish it off and move on. Tachyons are only worth it for me on the extremely BS heavy missions where tracking is irrelevant .. I flatly refuse to fill umpteen slots with tracking, much rather use "better" guns I just don't believe you but okay.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.22 10:07:00 - [64] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 But this is more likely trolling attempt /maybegood, who knows lol/ Yeah, decent. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida ... To kill npc bc you need 1 shot from each of 4 tachys on pally/nm - or one volley if you have all guns grouped - with normal hit quality. We are talking about 7k+ alpha here /almost top skills and 5% implants/.
Scott Ryder Amarr Sisters of Korhal Terran Commonwealth	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:48:00 - [65] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would argue that Tachyons do not do well in Missions. There slow rate of fire often causes an overkill on a damaged targed, effectively wasting DPS. Also with Tachyon ll you run into PG issues, because it will be impossible to fit a good armor repairer without using energy grid rigs or modules. Stick with Megabeam or Megapulse on a Paladin. Tachyon ll are only for the EFT Warriors. I dont have any huge problems with the tachyon IIs. A couple tracking computers helped alot. I also have Aux nano pump II rigs and a centus X rep incase i screw up the aggro, I tend to want to pop all frigates at the same time (as quick as I can lock them as I will have problems taking them when they come close) Hence I end up with full aggro rather often. You need an implant only to fit the X type rep. Every module has pros and cons. One of the pros with tachs is that you barely use ammo.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:16:00 - [66] Originally by: Amanda Eidolo I must concede that I was wrong about Tachyons. I didn't give them enough of a chance, and I am finding them more useful in missions thanks to the added range and instapop factor. So; the next point of contention is weapon grouping. For or against? Pros and cons? The only advantages of weapon grouping are that you can change ammo more quickly and reliably activate all your guns at the same time, neither of which are relevant when you only have 4 guns to work with, and if you have grouped weapons you risk losing damage to overkill. I leave mine ungrouped all the time. ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Jennz	Posted - 2010.03.02 10:17:00 - [67] When a single Tachyon instapops frigates (not assault frigates) & usually destroyers too grouping them together is counter-productive. Frankly if you can't micromanage 4 guns you're never going to be that optimal anyway.
Donovan11	Posted - 2010.03.02 13:29:00 - [68] Tachs on a Paladin are freaking ******ed. Fact: T2 Megapulse with MF gets a Paladin to 35km with falloff with double falloff tracking identical to Tachs Optimal. T2 Tachs with MF get 33km optimal with identical tracking as Megapulse in double falloff. T2 Megapulse gets 60 dps more than Tachs at the same ranges with same or up to 4x better tracking. Your bonuses of flying a paladin are wasted at ranges above 40km (cargo+tractor). Fitting Paladin for range is worse than flying a nightmare. T2 Tachs use a ton more cap than T2 Megapulse, again for less damage at same range. Falloff tracking for Tachs will make you miss way too much to be effective, especially with TD'd. Golem is >>>>>>> Paladin anyways, so cross train for Caldari and buy a Nightmare/Golem and switch according to mission.
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.03.02 14:03:00 - [69] Originally by: Donovan11 Golem is >>>>>>> Paladin anyways, so cross train for Caldari and buy a Nightmare/Golem and switch according to mission. Heh, I find a Golem and a Mega Pulse Abby to be quite effective.
Giannamichaels	Posted - 2010.03.02 14:44:00 - [70] megapulse nightmare is win, you really need a good tracking enhancer one and it shines iit is amazing, i use 4 heat sinks 1 tracking enhancer and with a tracking comp i can hit with scorch to almost 80km

Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2010.03.02 15:13:00 - [71] Pulse track FAR better Pulse do WTFBBQ dps inside 20km tachs with navy MF hit a bit harder than pulse with scorch Scorch does mostly EM which makes up for the lesser dps at scorch range when fighting sansha/blood Scorch is crap against anything thats not EM weak; at least MF does half thermal I myself fly a gank-fit pulse abaddon with a domi feeding it cap and armor. signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.03.02 15:16:00 - [72] Imp Multifrequency L 32.2 EM/23 THERM Scorch L 36 EM/8 THERM With the typical resists found in missions, thermal wins. If I had to pick ONE damage type to deal in every mission, it would be thermal. EM barely beats it out against Sansha/Blood, and that's it. Thermal works pretty well against guristas, mercs, serpentis, gallente, caldari, EoM, etc etc etc. It may not be THE best damage type against them, but it's usually second best. Heck, it's the reason an amarr ship can fake an angel mission. "But I use multifrequency too!" Yeah, when you sit on your thumbs waiting for all the rats to come into tractor range....
Jennz	Posted - 2010.03.02 15:33:00 - [73] Edited by: Jennz on 02/03/2010 15:33:49 Originally by: Ashira Twilight Edited by: Ashira Twilight on 02/03/2010 15:20:05 Imp Multifrequency L 32.2 EM/23 THERM Scorch L 36 EM/8 THERM With the typical resists found in missions, thermal wins. If I had to pick ONE damage type to deal in every mission, it would be thermal. EM barely beats it out against Sansha/Blood, and that's it. Thermal works pretty well against guristas, mercs, serpentis, gallente, caldari, EoM, etc etc etc. It may not be THE best damage type against them, but it's usually second best. Heck, it's the reason an amarr ship can fake an angel mission. "But I use multifrequency too!" Yeah, when you sit on your thumbs waiting for all the rats to come into tractor range.... edit; Bleh, why am I even posting in this flame-bait thread? +1 Tachys hit out to 80km+ optimal with Standard L, which still does more thermal damage (13.80 vs 8) than Scorch. Pulses are great for stuff that's right on top of you but beyond that Tachys are just better.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.03.02 15:43:00 - [74] Ill write that again, consider it when choosing guns for pally /nm is no question/ - tachys outdamage megapulses from 23k. Do you have most of the rats 23k from you? If yes, use megapulses. If not, use tachys.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.03.02 17:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Ill write that again, consider it when choosing guns for pally /nm is no question/ - tachys outdamage megapulses from 23k. Do you have most of the rats 23k from you? If yes, use megapulses. If not, use tachys. Yeah, Damsel is a no-brainer and I might switch to pulse for ritualistic raids...but I'm lazy.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.03.02 17:53:00 - [76] Edited by: Qui Shon on 02/03/2010 17:54:35 Originally by: NoNah That's funny. Lots of arguments for the tachyon paladin(for certain missions), however not a single post about which missions that may be. Every single one, except Damsel. Including Ritualist Raids, including Vengeance (both Blood and Sansha). Althpugh there isn't that much difference in Ritualist. OP is a rather obvious troll, but even so, the reason for Tachs is simple. All EM/TH missions are faster with Tachs, except Damsel. You could make a case for Pulses in Stop the Thief where you only kill either two or four battleships (and any scramblers) but it really doesn't matter there as the difference will be a second or two out of maybe 1 minute spent on site. I'll concede there might be some anti-amarr mission I've forgotten about, although I doubt it. Also, your comment about short range guns is funny, and in the spirit of the troll thread that this is. But as a serious comment it's ridiculous. Only torps and maybe AC's. In the former case because you can push max dmg out to roughly 40km, which is enough a lot of the time, and you still have Javs after that. In the latter I'm forced to say maybe because I don't know enough about Minnie weapons or ships.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.03.02 18:18:00 - [77] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 02/03/2010 17:54:35 Originally by: NoNah That's funny. Lots of arguments for the tachyon paladin(for certain missions), however not a single post about which missions that may be. Every single one, except Damsel. Including Ritualist Raids, including Vengeance (both Blood and Sansha). Althpugh there isn't that much difference in Ritualist. OP is a rather obvious troll, but even so, the reason for Tachs is simple. All EM/TH missions are faster with Tachs, except Damsel. You could make a case for Pulses in Stop the Thief where you only kill either two or four battleships (and any scramblers) but it really doesn't matter there as the difference will be a second or two out of maybe 1 minute spent on site. I'll concede there might be some anti-amarr mission I've forgotten about, although I doubt it. Also, your comment about short range guns is funny, and in the spirit of the troll thread that this is. But as a serious comment it's ridiculous. Only torps and maybe AC's. In the former case because you can push max dmg out to roughly 40km, which is enough a lot of the time, and you still have Javs after that. In the latter I'm forced to say maybe because I don't know enough about Minnie weapons or ships. I figured it was a troll thread from the beginning. I have a feeling the "champions" of pulse lasers here are just the ones that are afraid of losing their cap-stable dual-deadspace-rep setups in favor of a superior weapon.
Al Anders	Posted - 2010.03.02 18:32:00 - [78] My 2 cents for pulse paladin: 1) I prefer to kill targets that is in salvage range (40 km) in other words you just don't need paladin if you do not salvage wreks - use Nightmare or Abaddon - they have much better damage output (With good skills abby (Amarr BS 5) can fit 3 slot tank and 4 heatsinks so playing nightmare) 2) I like to fit an AB for PvE purposes (WC, Invasion and other **** there you need to move too long from gate to gate) - without PG modules its impossible on tach pally. 3) And When you get swarmed by merc cruisers and BS (Damsel, Silence informant) - you can hit them with pulses. But with tachs - you'll wait while your drones finish them off. Even if you plug in 2 TC - that isn't enought to hit 2.5km orbiting bs. If you fit web. You'll need to overheat it to kick out nasty cruisers with a 15-22km orbit So. My word is for pulses. I'm so lazy :)
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.03.02 19:12:00 - [79] Originally by: Al Anders My 2 cents for pulse paladin: 1) I prefer to kill targets that is in salvage range (40 km) in other words you just don't need paladin if you do not salvage wreks - use Nightmare or Abaddon - they have much better damage output (With good skills abby (Amarr BS 5) can fit 3 slot tank and 4 heatsinks so playing nightmare) 2) I like to fit an AB for PvE purposes (WC, Invasion and other ** there you need to move too long from gate to gate) - without PG modules its impossible on tach pally. 3) And When you get swarmed by merc cruisers and BS (Damsel, Silence informant) - you can hit them with pulses. But with tachs - you'll wait while your drones finish them off. Even if you plug in 2 TC - that isn't enought to hit 2.5km orbiting bs. If you fit web. You'll need to overheat it to kick out nasty cruisers with a 15-22km orbit So. My word is for pulses. I'm so lazy :) 1) tachyons outdamage pulse at 40km and beyond 23-25km 2) protest rep + powergird implants, faction tachs, named rep, etc etc etc, it's very possible 3) fit a web or kill them sooner, overheated web hits out to almost 20km (fed navy web is best), you can track fine past that ________________ Originally by:** CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.02 19:31:00 - [80] I don't fly a Pali, but having read the thread and doing some EFT Fu I kinda came to this. - Killing stuff at uber range with tachyons is no good because then it's outside tractorbeam range, making the paladin kinda useless. It does work well with within "operational marauder range" because of high damage crystals but it has other issues like fitting and tracking. - Using pulses doesn't give enough range (or damage at range) unless using scorch which isn't always handy Solution? something in the middle, like megabeams. Good damage within the 40km marauder range, can hit further out without issues. Doesn't have fitting issues and tracking is better than tachs. Perhaps I'm just stupid or something... ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.02 19:36:00 - [81] Originally by: Donovan11 Tachs on a Paladin are freaking ******ed. Fact: T2 Megapulse with MF gets a Paladin to 35km with falloff with double falloff tracking identical to Tachs Optimal. T2 Tachs with MF get 33km optimal with identical tracking as Megapulse in double falloff. T2 Megapulse gets 60 dps more than Tachs at the same ranges with same or up to 4x better tracking. Your bonuses of flying a paladin are wasted at ranges above 40km (cargo+tractor). Fitting Paladin for range is worse than flying a nightmare. T2 Tachs use a ton more cap than T2 Megapulse, again for less damage at same range. Falloff tracking for Tachs will make you miss way too much to be effective, especially with TD'd. Golem is >>>>>>> Paladin anyways, so cross train for Caldari and buy a Nightmare/Golem and switch according to mission. with 2 tcs and optimal scripts 35km is at optimal + falloff which is ~39% dps. plus the tach paladin has 2 tracking comps pushing its optimal to 43km 60 more dps, inside 23km, last time I ran a mission almost everythign was outside 23km hmm 23-40km is still a pretty decent range, plus it really isn't worth it to sit around and try to loot all the frig/cruiser wrecks, so what if a few of them end up outside tractor range. once again less damage inside 23km, outside they do more damage. the difference is likely even more noticeable once you factor in that scorch is almost all EM damage. wait what about falloff? I thought you were claiming it was awesome earlier. sometimes golem is better, sometimes the paladin is better, other times the nightmare is best. meh to you!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.02 19:40:00 - [82] Originally by: Giannamichaels megapulse nightmare is win, you really need a good tracking enhancer one and it shines iit is amazing, i use 4 heat sinks 1 tracking enhancer and with a tracking comp i can hit with scorch to almost 80km I'm looking at a 1te 2 tracking comp(optimal) and 80km is pretty deep in falloff. see comment on falloff above.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.02 19:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 02/03/2010 15:21:30 Pulse track FAR better Pulse do WTFBBQ dps inside 20km tachs with navy MF hit a bit harder than pulse with scorch Scorch does mostly EM which makes up for the lesser dps at scorch range when fighting sansha/blood Scorch is crap against anything thats not EM weak; at least MF does half thermal I myself fly a gank-fit pulse abaddon with a domi feeding it cap and armor. I switch out to a vargur for angel/gurista missions however. I get somewhere around 80-100m an hour but thats mostly because of the 3k+ isk I get per LP. Salvaging is for people that can't run missions fast enough or don't have a good LP store. they track better, but tracking is rarely a problem. I see a 173 dps difference between megapulse with scorch, and tachys with navy multi. so much for a bit harder. and 3k+ isk/lp makes things bloody nice doesn't it
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.02 19:56:00 - [84] Originally by: Marko Riva I don't fly a Pali, but having read the thread and doing some EFT Fu I kinda came to this. - Killing stuff at uber range with tachyons is no good because then it's outside tractorbeam range, making the paladin kinda useless. It does work well with within "operational marauder range" because of high damage crystals but it has other issues like fitting and tracking. - Using pulses doesn't give enough range (or damage at range) unless using scorch which isn't always handy Solution? something in the middle, like megabeams. Good damage within the 40km marauder range, can hit further out without issues. Doesn't have fitting issues and tracking is better than tachs. Perhaps I'm just stupid or something... Looting/salvaging is more of an "as convenient" than a must do, and I'd say most wrecks end up at 25-50km, where tachs with multi is awesomesauce! no reason to take a damage downgrade to megabeams when you can just wait for things to get in range if you really want to loot.
Jennz	Posted - 2010.03.03 11:11:00 - [85] It depends on what your objectives are. If you just want to complete missions as fast as you're probably either not salvaging at all, or using something faster (i.e. 4 tractors, 4 salvagers, MWD) for the job. Just because the Marauders have a tractor bonus doesn't mean you have to use it as your dedicated salvage ship. I would contest that waiting for things to get into Pulse range and tractoring everything is probably slower than just BBQ'ing everything at whatever range they happen to be at when you land in the mission with Tachs and coming back afterwards (or not) in a dedicated faster salvage ship, perhaps even on an alt for even faster completion times.


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