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Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected
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Posted - 2010.02.20 14:55:00 -
[1]
I propose that a Paladin fitted with T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals. It's the truth.
Discuss.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:05:00 -
[2]
This is not new.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:12:00 -
[3]
I would argue that Tahyions with imperial multi are better at the ranges you usually engage in L4 missions than pulses.
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LadyLubU2
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:28:00 -
[4]
inb4spreadsheetonline
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:28:00 -
[5]
I would argue that Tachyons do not do well in Missions.
There slow rate of fire often causes an overkill on a damaged targed, effectively wasting DPS. Also with Tachyon ll you run into PG issues, because it will be impossible to fit a good armor repairer without using energy grid rigs or modules.
Stick with Megabeam or Megapulse on a Paladin. Tachyon ll are only for the EFT Warriors.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Carniflex I would argue that Tahyions with imperial multi are better at the ranges you usually engage in L4 missions than pulses.
But, but... then wrecks are not in tractor range, and you dont want that...
To the op - if you asked for advice, id say go tachys. But this is more likely trolling attempt /maybegood, who knows lol/, so id just say use whatever you want on your ships if you like it.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would argue that Tachyons do not do well in Missions.
There slow rate of fire often causes an overkill on a damaged targed, effectively wasting DPS. Also with Tachyon ll you run into PG issues, because it will be impossible to fit a good armor repairer without using energy grid rigs or modules.
Stick with Megabeam or Megapulse on a Paladin. Tachyon ll are only for the EFT Warriors.
Wow, just... wow.
If you need an X-type LAR for a marauder you're doing something seriously wrong.
Imperial navy LAR 3 hardners 3 heatsinks
2 TC's 2 t2 cap recs
4 t2 tachs, 2 tractors 1 salvager
2 ccc(pref t2 if you want 100% cap stabilit) , or well 99.9%, only ever once had cap issues with t1 rigs though
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Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:05:00 -
[8]
Interesting responses!
I see a clear division forming between the respondents. Those who use Tachyons are sticking to their guns, adamant in their resolve, while those ascribing to the (correct) idea that Mega Pulses are better for L4s are equally as stout and unyielding.
I want to know why so many people insist Tachyons are better than Mega Pulses on a Paladin, when they clearly aren't.
Also - as much as I'd like to be that creative, this isn't a troll. I don't need any fitting suggestions. I use T2 Mega Pulses and T2 Mega Pulses only, because they are best.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo Interesting responses!
I see a clear division forming between the respondents. Those who use Tachyons are sticking to their guns, adamant in their resolve, while those ascribing to the (correct) idea that Mega Pulses are better for L4s are equally as stout and unyielding.
I want to know why so many people insist Tachyons are better than Mega Pulses on a Paladin, when they clearly aren't.
Also - as much as I'd like to be that creative, this isn't a troll. I don't need any fitting suggestions. I use T2 Mega Pulses and T2 Mega Pulses only, because they are best.
Yeah, they just do like, alot more dps at longer range and isn't limited to ****ty EM damage only (Which sucks aganist ANYTHING that isn't drones/sansha/bloodraiders) and scorch crystals expire really fast compared to Imp navy ones, esp when you have a higher RoF
So now, why are Mega Pulse better? only enemies Mega Pulse is good against is 100% frigate/cruiser missions/merc missions and some drone missions, anything else Tachyons are clearly superior to them
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Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:22:00 -
[10]
Tachyons have many disadvantages compared to Mega Pulses, which are completely superior thanks to their conservative PG and capacitor use. Not to mention their superior tracking, rate of fire and Scorchness.
I am not swayed by your argument.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo Tachyons have many disadvantages compared to Mega Pulses, which are completely superior thanks to their conservative PG and capacitor use. Not to mention their superior tracking, rate of fire and Scorchness.
I am not swayed by your argument.
Yeah, now what do you actually need the extra grid for?
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Miriiah
Wow, just... wow.
If you need an X-type LAR for a marauder you're doing something seriously wrong.
Imperial navy LAR 3 hardners 3 heatsinks
2 TC's 2 t2 cap recs
4 t2 tachs, 2 tractors 1 salvager
2 ccc(pref t2 if you want 100% cap stabilit) , or well 99.9%, only ever once had cap issues with t1 rigs though
You will run in some serious tanking issues with some of more difficult missions, especially if aggro management goes wrong, but aside from that Tachyons still do not perform that well.
Alpha is umimportant in missions. The DPS are not that much higher then with Mega Beams or Mega Pulse and their poor tracking makes it even with dual TC a pain. Besides, for ships at close range a webber is much more effective and of course you waste a lot of DPS by overkilling a target and having to wait for several seconds until the turrets can fire on the next target.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Originally by: Miriiah
Wow, just... wow.
If you need an X-type LAR for a marauder you're doing something seriously wrong.
Imperial navy LAR 3 hardners 3 heatsinks
2 TC's 2 t2 cap recs
4 t2 tachs, 2 tractors 1 salvager
2 ccc(pref t2 if you want 100% cap stabilit) , or well 99.9%, only ever once had cap issues with t1 rigs though
You will run in some serious tanking issues with some of more difficult missions, especially if aggro management goes wrong, but aside from that Tachyons still do not perform that well.
Alpha is umimportant in missions. The DPS are not that much higher then with Mega Beams or Mega Pulse and their poor tracking makes it even with dual TC a pain. Besides, for ships at close range a webber is much more effective and of course you waste a lot of DPS by overkilling a target and having to wait for several seconds until the turrets can fire on the next target.
What missions will this setup run into tanking issues? I've ran missions for like 500k LP+ with it without having tanking issues so far?
Mega beam optimal range is ****.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 20/02/2010 17:24:23 30km + 20km with Mega Beam ll and MF is usually more then enough. Most NPC, escpecially Angels and Serpentis will come much closer to your position and make Mega Pulses interesting.
Personally I would say either Mega Pulses or Mega Beams.
Ignore Miriiah the EFT Warrior here.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 20/02/2010 17:24:23 30km + 20km with Mega Beam ll and MF is usually more then enough. Most NPC, escpecially Angels and Serpentis will come much closer to your position and make Mega Pulses interesting.
Personally I would say either Mega Pulses or Mega Beams.
Ignore Miriiah the EFT Warrior here.
"EFT warrioring", wow. just. wow. I didn't even have EFT when I made this fit, and there's tons of 40km rats, esp for serpentis, and there's quite a few 50km orbitting rats aswell, and sansha is pretty much the same. Don't really want to start any flaming here, but you're obviously clueless
yeah, 30+20km with falloff, gg doing 300'ish dps at 50km range with Multifreq, and you should always shoot frigs/destroyers/cruisers as soon as possible and take bs's under 40km next if you're salvaging on the run, cruisers frigs etc ain't worth salvaging
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:40:00 -
[16]
You got trolled Miriiah. And with 2 alts id say.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 20/02/2010 17:24:23 30km + 20km with Mega Beam ll and MF is usually more then enough. Most NPC, escpecially Angels and Serpentis will come much closer to your position and make Mega Pulses interesting.
Personally I would say either Mega Pulses or Mega Beams.
Ignore Miriiah the EFT Warrior here.
"EFT warrioring", wow. just. wow. I didn't even have EFT when I made this fit, and there's tons of 40km rats, esp for serpentis, and there's quite a few 50km orbitting rats aswell, and sansha is pretty much the same. Don't really want to start any flaming here, but you're obviously clueless
yeah, 30+20km with falloff, gg doing 300'ish dps at 50km range with Multifreq, and you should always shoot frigs/destroyers/cruisers as soon as possible and take bs's under 40km next if you're salvaging on the run, cruisers frigs etc ain't worth salvaging
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 You got trolled Miriiah. And with 2 alts id say.
Meh doublepost, and yeah I've been suspecting some random person trolling me, not that really care, but I've seen A LOT of people fitting megapulses/Beams on their Paladins, so wouldn't be surprised if they were just imagining Tachys suck
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Miriiah "EFT warrioring", wow. just. wow. I didn't even have EFT when I made this fit, and there's tons of 40km rats, esp for serpentis, and there's quite a few 50km orbitting rats aswell, and sansha is pretty much the same. Don't really want to start any flaming here, but you're obviously clueless
yeah, 30+20km with falloff, gg doing 300'ish dps at 50km range with Multifreq, and you should always shoot frigs/destroyers/cruisers as soon as possible and take bs's under 40km next if you're salvaging on the run, cruisers frigs etc ain't worth salvaging
You are not even able to respond to facts presented here, just flaming others who disagree and point on the flaws of your theory-setups. With all evidence at hand I have to reject the claim of me being clueless.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.02.20 17:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 20/02/2010 17:55:58 Tachyon IIs with Multifrequency have 34km range and considerable falloff. With 2x Tracking Computer IIs scripted for tracking, they can easily track cruisers down to 20 or 25km without problem, and usually don't need to since they melt cruisers from much further away while they are on approach. Four of them, combined with a relatively short cycle time (<7 seconds) means that unless you're an idiot and are grouping weapons you shouldn't have much overkill.
Additionally, Pulses fire faster and have to mostly use Scorch ammo. T2 ammo wears out faster than faction ammo (by a factor of 4) and Pulses fire about 50% more often as well, so your ammo costs rise considerably.
In Sansha missions, when the Paladin gets hit with heavy TDing, Pulse lasers are pretty much screwed until a lucky TD cycle comes in. The Tachyon Paladin on the other hand still has considerable falloff to play with (24km) since falloff is unaffected by NPC TDs and can switch to a longer ranged ammo (f.ex, Ultraviolet) to deal significant damage to incoming TDing cruisers at 40-50km. The Pulse Apoc has no such option as it has only 10km falloff and is always using the longest range ammo.
In missions with rats that are more than 55km away the Tachyon paladin has no problem. In fact, thanks to the falloff boosting of the tracking computer range script, I don't generally switch away from Faction Multifrequency until 55-60km anyway.
Tachyons with Multifrequency considerably outdamage Mega Pulse + Scorch, and at most ranges tracking isn't an issue. The fact that they deal more damage means that NPCs are less likely to get close and get under the guns anyway (because they're too busy dying). Besides anything close enough to outrun Tachyon tracking is close enough to get hit by an overheated 90% faction web.
The fitting and cap use bonuses of Megapulses are irrelevant. It's perfectly easy to fit a Paladin with 4x tachyon IIs and whatever else you care to fit with a bit of work (personally I run a 'Protest' rep and a PG implant so that I can fit an Afterburner to my Tach boat as well if the urge strikes me). Cap use is similarly a nonissue, the Paladin has excellent cap and I've never capped out during a mission, and typically all I run as cap support is 1x cap recharger II and 1x CCC I.
TL;DR: Tachyons have more raw damage than Mega Pulse, are cheaper to operate, don't have any tracking problems at the range they operate, have more utility, look cooler, sound cooler, and mega pulse have no relevant advantages to a missioner who knows what they're doing. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Terianna Eri Edited by: Terianna Eri on 20/02/2010 17:56:43 Tachyon IIs with Multifrequency have 34km range and considerable falloff. With 2x Tracking Computer IIs scripted for tracking, they can easily track cruisers down to 20 or 25km without problem, and usually don't need to since they melt cruisers from much further away while they are on approach. Four of them, combined with a relatively short cycle time (<7 seconds) means that unless you're an idiot and are grouping weapons you shouldn't have much overkill.
Additionally, Pulses fire faster and have to mostly use Scorch ammo. T2 ammo wears out faster than faction ammo (by a factor of 4) and Pulses fire about 50% more often as well, so your ammo costs rise considerably.
In Sansha missions, when the Paladin gets hit with heavy TDing, Pulse lasers are pretty much screwed until a lucky TD cycle comes in. The Tachyon Paladin on the other hand still has considerable falloff to play with (24km) since falloff is unaffected by NPC TDs and can switch to a longer ranged ammo (f.ex, Ultraviolet) to deal significant damage to incoming TDing cruisers at 40-50km. The Pulse fit has no such option as it has only 10km falloff and is always using the longest range ammo.
In missions with rats that are more than 55km away the Tachyon paladin has no problem. In fact, thanks to the falloff boosting of the tracking computer range script, I don't generally switch away from Faction Multifrequency until 55-60km anyway.
Tachyons with Multifrequency considerably outdamage Mega Pulse + Scorch, and at most ranges tracking isn't an issue. The fact that they deal more damage means that NPCs are less likely to get close and get under the guns anyway (because they're too busy dying). Besides anything close enough to outrun Tachyon tracking is close enough to get hit by an overheated 90% faction web.
The fitting and cap use bonuses of Megapulses are irrelevant. It's perfectly easy to fit a Paladin with 4x tachyon IIs and whatever else you care to fit with a bit of work (personally I run a 'Protest' rep and a PG implant so that I can fit an Afterburner to my Tach boat as well if the urge strikes me). Cap use is similarly a nonissue, the Paladin has excellent cap and I've never capped out during a mission, and typically all I run as cap support is 1x cap recharger II and 1x CCC I.
TL;DR: Tachyons have more raw damage than Mega Pulse, are cheaper to operate, don't have any tracking problems at the range they operate, have more utility, look cooler, sound cooler, and mega pulse have no relevant advantages to a missioner who knows what they're doing.
EDIT: Edited for clarity
This pretty much, Scorch Pulse Lasers do mostly only EM damage aswell, which is really bad aganist serp/gurista/Angels, thermal is pretty good vs gurista and serp, but abit meh vs angels. as for the other people posting about me not commenting the negative effects on tachs, which is ofcourse their tracking. it has 2 tracking comps. tracking speed scripts, and if you still can't hit stuff with that, you're doing somethign wrong
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:16:00 -
[22]
Mega pulses are for navy apocs...
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Seishi Maru Mega pulses are for navy apocs...
This
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:28:00 -
[24]
Posting with lots of Alts will not make you appear smart.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:32:00 -
[25]
i dont have alts ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:50:00 -
[26]
Me neither, this is the only character I ever post on forums with
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 18:59:00 -
[27]
There are missions where tachyons are better than pulses. Then again, on these missions you're better off with a nightmare and would perform equally with an apoc or abaddon. The main reason it's not discussed much is because there will always be two camps, any way you flip it. Those who use tachyons won't ever accept that they're wrong, and those who use pulses have no real reason to at all argue with those who won't.
Fact of the matter is that ALL marauders are best off with close range guns. Every single one of them. Even so you'll see lots of cruise missile golems(even though the CNR is better for any situation the golem would do better with cruise than torp), you'll see lots of artillery vargur - and even more so lots of complaint regarding how bad it is, since you can't even fit guns that suck on it. The kronos is a tad special. Problem is it sucks with both blasters and rails, rails just happens to suck a tad less.
In short, if you want long range, don't go marauder. THAT is the main difference between a Nightmare and Paladin for PvE. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 737102
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: NoNah There are missions where tachyons are better than pulses. Then again, on these missions you're better off with a nightmare and would perform equally with an apoc or abaddon. The main reason it's not discussed much is because there will always be two camps, any way you flip it. Those who use tachyons won't ever accept that they're wrong, and those who use pulses have no real reason to at all argue with those who won't.
Fact of the matter is that ALL marauders are best off with close range guns. Every single one of them. Even so you'll see lots of cruise missile golems(even though the CNR is better for any situation the golem would do better with cruise than torp), you'll see lots of artillery vargur - and even more so lots of complaint regarding how bad it is, since you can't even fit guns that suck on it. The kronos is a tad special. Problem is it sucks with both blasters and rails, rails just happens to suck a tad less.
In short, if you want long range, don't go marauder. THAT is the main difference between a Nightmare and Paladin for PvE.
I've said there's missions where pulses are handy, if there's lots of frigs/cruisers and some merc missions/drone missions pulses are better
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ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:15:00 -
[29]
Anyone only using pulse or only using tach is doing it wrong. Change your fit according to the mission at hand... and don't stop at just swapping out hardeners.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt Anyone only using pulse or only using tach is doing it wrong. Change your fit according to the mission at hand... and don't stop at just swapping out hardeners.
This pretty much:p
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Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt Anyone only using pulse or only using tach is doing it wrong. Change your fit according to the mission at hand... and don't stop at just swapping out hardeners.
Interesting, seeing the recent threads in the subforum next door. Can you example missions with much better isk/hour one way or another? And the ones you use tachyons for, is there any reason to use the paladin over the nightmare?
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Carniflex
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.20 20:00:00 -
[32]
I must admit that I do actually use Nightmare usually and while i can fly Paladin I don't as I don't loot usually. Thats why I find Tahyions in general being superior. Then again, as laser hardwires are universal, unlike torpedo / cruise ones on Golem one is perfectly fine just switching the guns with hardeners depending on mission. Especially when running missions solo.
Marauders don't have fitting issues in my opinion. At least Golem and Paladin don't I have not looked at others really.
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Jennz
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Posted - 2010.02.20 20:51:00 -
[33]
Tachyons = popping everything at whatever range they happen to be at when you land in the mission instead of having to burn around at 117m/s or whatever it is to close to Scorch range.
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small chimp
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Posted - 2010.02.20 21:28:00 -
[34]
Edited by: small chimp on 20/02/2010 21:30:57 [Paladin, New Setup 1] Ammatar Navy Heat Sink Ammatar Navy Heat Sink Ammatar Navy Heat Sink Tairei's Modified Large Armor Repairer Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core C-Type Armor EM Hardener Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Core A-Type 100MN Afterburner Heavy 'Brave' Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II Large Ancillary Current Router II
Hammerhead II x5
ALSO WHO ASKED YOU TO GROUP ALL WEAPONS TO SINGLE GROUP?! WHO WHO?
PPS. YOUR ATTEMPT TO BOLSTER YOUR SO-CALLED FRIENDS ANGGGGERRRSSS MEEE
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Eri'kana Motugi
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Posted - 2010.02.20 21:43:00 -
[35]
If your only gonna use Megapulse, what's the point of even flying the Paladin over the Abbadon? When using megapulse they do the same damage, and the Abbadon can field a better tank (resist bonus>rep bonus). Yeah the Paladin is a bit more cap stable, only using 4 guns and the cap bonus, but with aggro managed properly mission running in an Abbadon is cake. It's hard to justify the pricetag on a Paladin if all your gonna use is Megapulse, save some isk and just use an Abbadon.
My mission running time almost halved when I went from a megapulse Abbadon to a tach Paladin. Just make sure to target small ships first so you never have to worry about em getting under your guns.
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Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:47:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Amanda Eidolo on 20/02/2010 22:47:28 There is some convincing material presented in this thread that shakes my world view and - especially - my opinion of Tachyons and their place with a Paladin.
After reading through some of the more insightful replies I have decided that tonight I'm going to fit my Paladin with T2 Tachyons and spam L4s until I grow weary and collapse.
Will Tachyons be proven to have been highly underrated, misjudged and misunderstood?
Or will Mega Pulses remain the obvious choice for the discerning Paladin professional?
Only time will tell.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:52:00 -
[37]
wait, you mean I'm not supposed to use Dual Heavy Beam Laser II on my paladin?!
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Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton wait, you mean I'm not supposed to use Dual Heavy Beam Laser II on my paladin?!
Gatling pulse only nub. ________
Real men fly Amarr. |
lil Ghork
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Posted - 2010.02.20 23:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt Anyone only using pulse or only using tach is doing it wrong. Change your fit according to the mission at hand... and don't stop at just swapping out hardeners.
we have a winner, but to contribute a bit, i'd say a majority of the missions tachs will be better, some cause of dmg, and a lot cause of less expenses.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.02.20 23:20:00 -
[40]
Edited by: NoNah on 20/02/2010 23:22:15
Originally by: Eri'kana Motugi If your only gonna use Megapulse, what's the point of even flying the Paladin over the Abbadon? When using megapulse they do the same damage, and the Abbadon can field a better tank (resist bonus>rep bonus). Yeah the Paladin is a bit more cap stable, only using 4 guns and the cap bonus, but with aggro managed properly mission running in an Abbadon is cake. It's hard to justify the pricetag on a Paladin if all your gonna use is Megapulse, save some isk and just use an Abbadon.
My mission running time almost halved when I went from a megapulse Abbadon to a tach Paladin. Just make sure to target small ships first so you never have to worry about em getting under your guns.
Three reasons. Cargohold, Tractorbeam bonus and utility highs. Those are the only reasons to fly a paladin, what so ever.
If you're going to use tachyons, save yourself some training time and run your missions faster by getting a nightmare?
Originally by: lil Ghork
Originally by: ZW Dewitt Anyone only using pulse or only using tach is doing it wrong. Change your fit according to the mission at hand... and don't stop at just swapping out hardeners.
we have a winner, but to contribute a bit, i'd say a majority of the missions tachs will be better, some cause of dmg, and a lot cause of less expenses.
Less... expenses? You mean the slightly higher damage modifier? Or Pulses cheaper ammo? Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 501753
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lil Ghork
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Posted - 2010.02.20 23:38:00 -
[41]
Edited by: lil Ghork on 20/02/2010 23:38:20 higher dmg at most ranges (pulses will outdamage tachs in their MF range)
ammunition lasts longer due to slower rof on tachs making it cheaper
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Vengeance Innovations
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:10:00 -
[42]
It is clear that Tachs and Pulse both have distinct disadvantages; Tachs; poor tracking, low rof, Pulse: poor damage at medium to long range, higher ammo consumption. I often come across moments where I wished I had equiped the other kind even though my choice was right for most of the rats.
I have to admit that noobness and a general lazy attitude prevented me from testing Mega Beams. Are they a viable compromise?
Do people use beams as a 'one fit for all' lvl4 weapon of choice and do they offer the best of both worlds?
Support Lana's new bounty system. |
small chimp
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ran Khanon It is clear that Tachs and Pulse both have distinct disadvantages; Tachs; poor tracking, low rof, Pulse: poor damage at medium to long range, higher ammo consumption. I often come across moments where I wished I had equiped the other kind even though my choice was right for most of the rats.
I have to admit that noobness and a general lazy attitude prevented me from testing Mega Beams. Are they a viable compromise?
Do people use beams as a 'one fit for all' lvl4 weapon of choice and do they offer the best of both worlds?
use ab to mitigate tracking? and and tracking computers?
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lil Ghork
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:41:00 -
[44]
Edited by: lil Ghork on 21/02/2010 00:44:32 Edited by: lil Ghork on 21/02/2010 00:43:18
Originally by: Ran Khanon It is clear that Tachs and Pulse both have distinct disadvantages; Tachs; poor tracking, low rof, Pulse: poor damage at medium to long range, higher ammo consumption. I often come across moments where I wished I had equiped the other kind even though my choice was right for most of the rats.
I have to admit that noobness and a general lazy attitude prevented me from testing Mega Beams. Are they a viable compromise?
Do people use beams as a 'one fit for all' lvl4 weapon of choice and do they offer the best of both worlds?
In a paladin you should really only use pulses and tachs, you'll have AWU 5 so fitting isn't a problem. Tachs is really just improved beams the tracking is fine especially when the ship has a 90% web bonus. Beams however are the perfect begginer pve weapon for Abbadons, pulses you'll need tech 2 for scorch really and tachs cant be fitted properly without using 2 many RCU's / ACR's
For a pally just use pulse on close range missions like damsel in distress, and tachs for everything else. Granted the ship is good enough that both weapon systems can be used for all missions, its just better to adapt to your enemies
Edit: my horrible lazy fitting that doesn't really need reffiting at all Really should use cheaper stuff and just swap hardeners etc. But missinoing is borring and the less i have to think the more missions i do, so this seems to produce a great amount of cash
[Paladin, perma/omni] Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II
Domination Stasis Webifier Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
edit2: yes beams are viable for completing missions, but since they do less dmg than pulses or tach you end up doing missions slower so really you should never do it
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Vengeance Innovations
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: small chimp
Originally by: Ran Khanon It is clear that Tachs and Pulse both have distinct disadvantages; Tachs; poor tracking, low rof, Pulse: poor damage at medium to long range, higher ammo consumption. I often come across moments where I wished I had equiped the other kind even though my choice was right for most of the rats.
I have to admit that noobness and a general lazy attitude prevented me from testing Mega Beams. Are they a viable compromise?
Do people use beams as a 'one fit for all' lvl4 weapon of choice and do they offer the best of both worlds?
use ab to mitigate tracking? and and tracking computers?
I know there are mods to alleviate both pulse and tach negatives, but keep them out of the equation for a sec. Question still stands: are beams a viable middle ground? If not: why?
Support Lana's new bounty system. |
NoNah
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:52:00 -
[46]
That's funny. Lots of arguments for the tachyon paladin(for certain missions), however not a single post about which missions that may be.
Sorry for rushing but 98% of these topics tend to end up in a consensus of "well it's good enough for me", "I don't care about the last few seconds" or something to that extent. I'm just trying to speed things up and get there right away. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 286401
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lil Ghork
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Posted - 2010.02.21 00:58:00 -
[47]
Originally by: NoNah That's funny. Lots of arguments for the tachyon paladin(for certain missions), however not a single post about which missions that may be.
Sorry for rushing but 98% of these topics tend to end up in a consensus of "well it's good enough for me", "I don't care about the last few seconds" or something to that extent. I'm just trying to speed things up and get there right away.
In amarr space i'd say anything but damsel tbh, maybe stop the thief if you go for trigger straight.
any gurristas or serpentis missions will always be tach cause of the higher thermal dmg, any mission with TD's tach cause of higher falloff, any mission with high range Tach. Then there's a few missions were they cut even but there my personal prefference preffers IN MF to Scorch since scorch burns up so damn fast
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.21 01:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: NoNah ...
Angel Extravaganza Assault(Guristas Pirates) Attack of the Drones Blockade, The (Sansha Nation) Cargo Delivery (Serpentis) Downing The Slavers Duo of Death (Sansha Nation) Enemies Abound Gone Berserk Infiltrated Outposts Intercept The Saboteurs (Guristas Pirates) Massive Attack (Sansha) Mining Misappropriation (Amarr) Pirate Invasion (Sansha Nation) Recon (1 of 3) Right Hand of Zazzmatazz Rogue Drone Harassment Score, The (Sansha Nation) Silence the Informant Smuggler Interception (Blood Raiders) Stop the Thief Unauthorized Military Presence (Blood Raiders) Worlds Collide (Angels / Sansha)
Thats amarr space. So pulses for damsel, ritualist raids, maybe vengeance /im not sure about this/. Generally what ghork said, if you dont have most rats in mf range of megapulses, tachys will do better, if you are shooting other than em/th weak rats, tachys will do better etc.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.21 04:01:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: NoNah ...
Angel Extravaganza Assault(Guristas Pirates) Attack of the Drones Blockade, The (Sansha Nation) Cargo Delivery (Serpentis) Downing The Slavers Duo of Death (Sansha Nation) Enemies Abound Gone Berserk Infiltrated Outposts Intercept The Saboteurs (Guristas Pirates) Massive Attack (Sansha) Mining Misappropriation (Amarr) Pirate Invasion (Sansha Nation) Recon (1 of 3) Right Hand of Zazzmatazz Rogue Drone Harassment Score, The (Sansha Nation) Silence the Informant Smuggler Interception (Blood Raiders) Stop the Thief Unauthorized Military Presence (Blood Raiders) Worlds Collide (Angels / Sansha)
Thats amarr space. So pulses for damsel, ritualist raids, maybe vengeance /im not sure about this/. Generally what ghork said, if you dont have most rats in mf range of megapulses, tachys will do better, if you are shooting other than em/th weak rats, tachys will do better etc.
AE tachs, just because a few spawns are at 60km+ Assault tachs, blitz in ~10mins AotD tachs, stuff spawns ~40km. blockade tachs, long range spawns ect
tachys all the way on Vengeance, the last spawn is like 70km out.
and heh, haven't seen Mining Misappropriation (Amarr) in ages.
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lil Ghork
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Posted - 2010.02.21 12:58:00 -
[50]
comes up once in a while from Ministry of War ^^
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.02.21 13:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: NoNah ...
Angel Extravaganza Assault(Guristas Pirates) Attack of the Drones Blockade, The (Sansha Nation) Cargo Delivery (Serpentis) Downing The Slavers Duo of Death (Sansha Nation) Enemies Abound Gone Berserk Infiltrated Outposts Intercept The Saboteurs (Guristas Pirates) Massive Attack (Sansha) Mining Misappropriation (Amarr) Pirate Invasion (Sansha Nation) Recon (1 of 3) Right Hand of Zazzmatazz Rogue Drone Harassment Score, The (Sansha Nation) Silence the Informant Smuggler Interception (Blood Raiders) Stop the Thief Unauthorized Military Presence (Blood Raiders) Worlds Collide (Angels / Sansha)
I use Tachyons for every one of these, except Rogue Drone Harassment, which I used to bother with and now don't but when I did I used Mega Pulse because of the first room.
And I use a Mach for AE and WC now anyway :p ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.21 13:44:00 -
[52]
Pulse and 2 remote tracking enhancers from your oneiros alt = hurr tachs. ~
Soar Like a Penguin |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.21 14:13:00 -
[53]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt Anyone only using pulse or only using tach is doing it wrong. Change your fit according to the mission at hand... and don't stop at just swapping out hardeners.
No need to go through all that hassle. Use Mega Beams. Frees up a bunch of fitting, has nearly same range/damage as tachs, has noticeably better tracking than tachs and with near max skills 2 barrels has just enough oomph to pop rat BCs thus wasting minimal damage output.
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d3vo
Isotope Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.02.21 15:51:00 -
[54]
If you think Tachyons suck, your using it wrong.
ch33rs |
Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected
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Posted - 2010.02.22 07:33:00 -
[55]
I must concede that I was wrong about Tachyons. I didn't give them enough of a chance, and I am finding them more useful in missions thanks to the added range and instapop factor.
So; the next point of contention is weapon grouping. For or against? Pros and cons?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.22 07:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gladys Pank Pulse and 2 remote tracking enhancers from your oneiros alt = hurr tachs.
I'd rather have a 2nd tach paladin or nightmare than a lolgistics.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.22 07:46:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida 2 barrels has just enough oomph to pop rat BCs thus wasting minimal damage output.
you lost me on that one, but most BCs pop in 1 volley (that would be 4 shots) from my tachys. also if it goes over only 1 or 2 guns will activate and I can put the other 2-3 on another target.
so are you saying you can kill a bc with 2 shots, or 2 vollies?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.22 07:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo I must concede that I was wrong about Tachyons. I didn't give them enough of a chance, and I am finding them more useful in missions thanks to the added range and instapop factor.
So; the next point of contention is weapon grouping. For or against? Pros and cons?
ungrouped
pros: easier to switch ammo cons: over kill on many ships (see battlecruiser example above) complete waste of time to use on frigs, can 1 shot them at the right range, maybe 2 if very long range. mehs: on most battleships probably doesn't matter too much. something about wrecking hits/tracking
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Wod
Gallente Fallen Pandas
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Posted - 2010.02.22 08:57:00 -
[59]
Quote: I propose that a Paladin fitted with T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals. It's the truth.
Quote: T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals
Quote: T2 Tachyons using the same crystals
Quote: Tachyons
pro tip, they cant use Scorch
- "* CCP Tuxford can no longer shut down TQ on a whim."
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.22 09:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: NoNah Fact of the matter is that ALL marauders are best off with close range guns. Every single one of them.
You're out of your mind. A Kronos is not better off with blasters. Neither is a Paladin, as a general rule, better off with Megapulse.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.22 09:25:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida 2 barrels has just enough oomph to pop rat BCs thus wasting minimal damage output.
you lost me on that one, but most BCs pop in 1 volley (that would be 4 shots) from my tachys. also if it goes over only 1 or 2 guns will activate and I can put the other 2-3 on another target.
so are you saying you can kill a bc with 2 shots, or 2 vollies?
2 gun-groups of two guns each. One group is just enough to pop BCs .. depends on hit quality obviously, but if its left with a sliver of hull you can let drones finish it off and move on.
Tachyons are only worth it for me on the extremely BS heavy missions where tracking is irrelevant .. I flatly refuse to fill umpteen slots with tracking, much rather use "better" guns
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Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected
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Posted - 2010.02.22 09:28:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Wod
Quote: I propose that a Paladin fitted with T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals. It's the truth.
Quote: T2 Mega Pulses, using Scorch, Xray and Multifrequency, is superior to a Paladin fitted with T2 Tachyons using the same crystals
Quote: T2 Tachyons using the same crystals
Quote: Tachyons
pro tip, they cant use Scorch
Pfft! You're nit-picking. Scorch is not needed; Xray is a perfect substitute.
And it's PROTIP.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.22 10:03:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida 2 barrels has just enough oomph to pop rat BCs thus wasting minimal damage output.
you lost me on that one, but most BCs pop in 1 volley (that would be 4 shots) from my tachys. also if it goes over only 1 or 2 guns will activate and I can put the other 2-3 on another target.
so are you saying you can kill a bc with 2 shots, or 2 vollies?
2 gun-groups of two guns each. One group is just enough to pop BCs .. depends on hit quality obviously, but if its left with a sliver of hull you can let drones finish it off and move on.
Tachyons are only worth it for me on the extremely BS heavy missions where tracking is irrelevant .. I flatly refuse to fill umpteen slots with tracking, much rather use "better" guns
I just don't believe you but okay.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.22 10:07:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 But this is more likely trolling attempt /maybegood, who knows lol/
Yeah, decent.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida ...
To kill npc bc you need 1 shot from each of 4 tachys on pally/nm - or one volley if you have all guns grouped - with normal hit quality. We are talking about 7k+ alpha here /almost top skills and 5% implants/.
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Scott Ryder
Amarr Sisters of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
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Posted - 2010.02.22 14:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would argue that Tachyons do not do well in Missions.
There slow rate of fire often causes an overkill on a damaged targed, effectively wasting DPS. Also with Tachyon ll you run into PG issues, because it will be impossible to fit a good armor repairer without using energy grid rigs or modules.
Stick with Megabeam or Megapulse on a Paladin. Tachyon ll are only for the EFT Warriors.
I dont have any huge problems with the tachyon IIs. A couple tracking computers helped alot. I also have Aux nano pump II rigs and a centus X rep incase i screw up the aggro, I tend to want to pop all frigates at the same time (as quick as I can lock them as I will have problems taking them when they come close) Hence I end up with full aggro rather often. You need an implant only to fit the X type rep. Every module has pros and cons. One of the pros with tachs is that you barely use ammo.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.02.22 15:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo I must concede that I was wrong about Tachyons. I didn't give them enough of a chance, and I am finding them more useful in missions thanks to the added range and instapop factor.
So; the next point of contention is weapon grouping. For or against? Pros and cons?
The only advantages of weapon grouping are that you can change ammo more quickly and reliably activate all your guns at the same time, neither of which are relevant when you only have 4 guns to work with, and if you have grouped weapons you risk losing damage to overkill. I leave mine ungrouped all the time. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Jennz
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Posted - 2010.03.02 10:17:00 -
[67]
When a single Tachyon instapops frigates (not assault frigates) & usually destroyers too grouping them together is counter-productive. Frankly if you can't micromanage 4 guns you're never going to be that optimal anyway.
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Donovan11
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Posted - 2010.03.02 13:29:00 -
[68]
Tachs on a Paladin are freaking ******ed.
Fact: T2 Megapulse with MF gets a Paladin to 35km with falloff with double falloff tracking identical to Tachs Optimal. T2 Tachs with MF get 33km optimal with identical tracking as Megapulse in double falloff.
T2 Megapulse gets 60 dps more than Tachs at the same ranges with same or up to 4x better tracking.
Your bonuses of flying a paladin are wasted at ranges above 40km (cargo+tractor). Fitting Paladin for range is worse than flying a nightmare.
T2 Tachs use a ton more cap than T2 Megapulse, again for less damage at same range.
Falloff tracking for Tachs will make you miss way too much to be effective, especially with TD'd.
Golem is >>>>>>> Paladin anyways, so cross train for Caldari and buy a Nightmare/Golem and switch according to mission.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.02 14:03:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Donovan11
Golem is >>>>>>> Paladin anyways, so cross train for Caldari and buy a Nightmare/Golem and switch according to mission.
Heh, I find a Golem and a Mega Pulse Abby to be quite effective.
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Giannamichaels
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Posted - 2010.03.02 14:44:00 -
[70]
megapulse nightmare is win, you really need a good tracking enhancer one and it shines iit is amazing, i use 4 heat sinks 1 tracking enhancer and with a tracking comp i can hit with scorch to almost 80km
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:13:00 -
[71]
Pulse track FAR better Pulse do WTFBBQ dps inside 20km tachs with navy MF hit a bit harder than pulse with scorch Scorch does mostly EM which makes up for the lesser dps at scorch range when fighting sansha/blood Scorch is crap against anything thats not EM weak; at least MF does half thermal
I myself fly a gank-fit pulse abaddon with a domi feeding it cap and armor.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:16:00 -
[72]
Imp Multifrequency L 32.2 EM/23 THERM
Scorch L 36 EM/8 THERM
With the typical resists found in missions, thermal wins. If I had to pick ONE damage type to deal in every mission, it would be thermal.
EM barely beats it out against Sansha/Blood, and that's it. Thermal works pretty well against guristas, mercs, serpentis, gallente, caldari, EoM, etc etc etc. It may not be THE best damage type against them, but it's usually second best. Heck, it's the reason an amarr ship can fake an angel mission.
"But I use multifrequency too!"
Yeah, when you sit on your thumbs waiting for all the rats to come into tractor range....
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Jennz
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:33:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Jennz on 02/03/2010 15:33:49
Originally by: Ashira Twilight Edited by: Ashira Twilight on 02/03/2010 15:20:05 Imp Multifrequency L 32.2 EM/23 THERM
Scorch L 36 EM/8 THERM
With the typical resists found in missions, thermal wins. If I had to pick ONE damage type to deal in every mission, it would be thermal.
EM barely beats it out against Sansha/Blood, and that's it. Thermal works pretty well against guristas, mercs, serpentis, gallente, caldari, EoM, etc etc etc. It may not be THE best damage type against them, but it's usually second best. Heck, it's the reason an amarr ship can fake an angel mission.
"But I use multifrequency too!"
Yeah, when you sit on your thumbs waiting for all the rats to come into tractor range....
edit; Bleh, why am I even posting in this flame-bait thread?
+1
Tachys hit out to 80km+ optimal with Standard L, which still does more thermal damage (13.80 vs 8) than Scorch.
Pulses are great for stuff that's right on top of you but beyond that Tachys are just better.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:43:00 -
[74]
Ill write that again, consider it when choosing guns for pally /nm is no question/ - tachys outdamage megapulses from 23k. Do you have most of the rats 23k from you? If yes, use megapulses. If not, use tachys.
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Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2010.03.02 17:29:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Ill write that again, consider it when choosing guns for pally /nm is no question/ - tachys outdamage megapulses from 23k. Do you have most of the rats 23k from you? If yes, use megapulses. If not, use tachys.
Yeah, Damsel is a no-brainer and I might switch to pulse for ritualistic raids...but I'm lazy.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.03.02 17:53:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 02/03/2010 17:54:35
Originally by: NoNah That's funny. Lots of arguments for the tachyon paladin(for certain missions), however not a single post about which missions that may be.
Every single one, except Damsel. Including Ritualist Raids, including Vengeance (both Blood and Sansha). Althpugh there isn't that much difference in Ritualist.
OP is a rather obvious troll, but even so, the reason for Tachs is simple. All EM/TH missions are faster with Tachs, except Damsel. You could make a case for Pulses in Stop the Thief where you only kill either two or four battleships (and any scramblers) but it really doesn't matter there as the difference will be a second or two out of maybe 1 minute spent on site.
I'll concede there might be some anti-amarr mission I've forgotten about, although I doubt it.
Also, your comment about short range guns is funny, and in the spirit of the troll thread that this is. But as a serious comment it's ridiculous. Only torps and maybe AC's. In the former case because you can push max dmg out to roughly 40km, which is enough a lot of the time, and you still have Javs after that. In the latter I'm forced to say maybe because I don't know enough about Minnie weapons or ships.
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Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2010.03.02 18:18:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 02/03/2010 17:54:35
Originally by: NoNah That's funny. Lots of arguments for the tachyon paladin(for certain missions), however not a single post about which missions that may be.
Every single one, except Damsel. Including Ritualist Raids, including Vengeance (both Blood and Sansha). Althpugh there isn't that much difference in Ritualist.
OP is a rather obvious troll, but even so, the reason for Tachs is simple. All EM/TH missions are faster with Tachs, except Damsel. You could make a case for Pulses in Stop the Thief where you only kill either two or four battleships (and any scramblers) but it really doesn't matter there as the difference will be a second or two out of maybe 1 minute spent on site.
I'll concede there might be some anti-amarr mission I've forgotten about, although I doubt it.
Also, your comment about short range guns is funny, and in the spirit of the troll thread that this is. But as a serious comment it's ridiculous. Only torps and maybe AC's. In the former case because you can push max dmg out to roughly 40km, which is enough a lot of the time, and you still have Javs after that. In the latter I'm forced to say maybe because I don't know enough about Minnie weapons or ships.
I figured it was a troll thread from the beginning. I have a feeling the "champions" of pulse lasers here are just the ones that are afraid of losing their cap-stable dual-deadspace-rep setups in favor of a superior weapon.
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Al Anders
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Posted - 2010.03.02 18:32:00 -
[78]
My 2 cents for pulse paladin: 1) I prefer to kill targets that is in salvage range (40 km) in other words you just don't need paladin if you do not salvage wreks - use Nightmare or Abaddon - they have much better damage output (With good skills abby (Amarr BS 5) can fit 3 slot tank and 4 heatsinks so playing nightmare) 2) I like to fit an AB for PvE purposes (WC, Invasion and other **** there you need to move too long from gate to gate) - without PG modules its impossible on tach pally. 3) And When you get swarmed by merc cruisers and BS (Damsel, Silence informant) - you can hit them with pulses. But with tachs - you'll wait while your drones finish them off. Even if you plug in 2 TC - that isn't enought to hit 2.5km orbiting bs. If you fit web. You'll need to overheat it to kick out nasty cruisers with a 15-22km orbit So. My word is for pulses. I'm so lazy :)
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.03.02 19:12:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Al Anders My 2 cents for pulse paladin: 1) I prefer to kill targets that is in salvage range (40 km) in other words you just don't need paladin if you do not salvage wreks - use Nightmare or Abaddon - they have much better damage output (With good skills abby (Amarr BS 5) can fit 3 slot tank and 4 heatsinks so playing nightmare) 2) I like to fit an AB for PvE purposes (WC, Invasion and other **** there you need to move too long from gate to gate) - without PG modules its impossible on tach pally. 3) And When you get swarmed by merc cruisers and BS (Damsel, Silence informant) - you can hit them with pulses. But with tachs - you'll wait while your drones finish them off. Even if you plug in 2 TC - that isn't enought to hit 2.5km orbiting bs. If you fit web. You'll need to overheat it to kick out nasty cruisers with a 15-22km orbit So. My word is for pulses. I'm so lazy :)
1) tachyons outdamage pulse at 40km and beyond 23-25km 2) protest rep + powergird implants, faction tachs, named rep, etc etc etc, it's very possible 3) fit a web or kill them sooner, overheated web hits out to almost 20km (fed navy web is best), you can track fine past that ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 19:31:00 -
[80]
I don't fly a Pali, but having read the thread and doing some EFT Fu I kinda came to this.
- Killing stuff at uber range with tachyons is no good because then it's outside tractorbeam range, making the paladin kinda useless. It does work well with within "operational marauder range" because of high damage crystals but it has other issues like fitting and tracking.
- Using pulses doesn't give enough range (or damage at range) unless using scorch which isn't always handy
Solution? something in the middle, like megabeams. Good damage within the 40km marauder range, can hit further out without issues. Doesn't have fitting issues and tracking is better than tachs. Perhaps I'm just stupid or something...
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.02 19:36:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Donovan11 Tachs on a Paladin are freaking ******ed.
Fact: T2 Megapulse with MF gets a Paladin to 35km with falloff with double falloff tracking identical to Tachs Optimal. T2 Tachs with MF get 33km optimal with identical tracking as Megapulse in double falloff.
T2 Megapulse gets 60 dps more than Tachs at the same ranges with same or up to 4x better tracking.
Your bonuses of flying a paladin are wasted at ranges above 40km (cargo+tractor). Fitting Paladin for range is worse than flying a nightmare.
T2 Tachs use a ton more cap than T2 Megapulse, again for less damage at same range.
Falloff tracking for Tachs will make you miss way too much to be effective, especially with TD'd.
Golem is >>>>>>> Paladin anyways, so cross train for Caldari and buy a Nightmare/Golem and switch according to mission.
with 2 tcs and optimal scripts 35km is at optimal + falloff which is ~39% dps. plus the tach paladin has 2 tracking comps pushing its optimal to 43km
60 more dps, inside 23km, last time I ran a mission almost everythign was outside 23km
hmm 23-40km is still a pretty decent range, plus it really isn't worth it to sit around and try to loot all the frig/cruiser wrecks, so what if a few of them end up outside tractor range.
once again less damage inside 23km, outside they do more damage. the difference is likely even more noticeable once you factor in that scorch is almost all EM damage.
wait what about falloff? I thought you were claiming it was awesome earlier.
sometimes golem is better, sometimes the paladin is better, other times the nightmare is best.
meh to you!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.02 19:40:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Giannamichaels megapulse nightmare is win, you really need a good tracking enhancer one and it shines iit is amazing, i use 4 heat sinks 1 tracking enhancer and with a tracking comp i can hit with scorch to almost 80km
I'm looking at a 1te 2 tracking comp(optimal) and 80km is pretty deep in falloff. see comment on falloff above.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.02 19:49:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 02/03/2010 15:21:30 Pulse track FAR better Pulse do WTFBBQ dps inside 20km tachs with navy MF hit a bit harder than pulse with scorch Scorch does mostly EM which makes up for the lesser dps at scorch range when fighting sansha/blood Scorch is crap against anything thats not EM weak; at least MF does half thermal
I myself fly a gank-fit pulse abaddon with a domi feeding it cap and armor. I switch out to a vargur for angel/gurista missions however. I get somewhere around 80-100m an hour but thats mostly because of the 3k+ isk I get per LP. Salvaging is for people that can't run missions fast enough or don't have a good LP store.
they track better, but tracking is rarely a problem.
I see a 173 dps difference between megapulse with scorch, and tachys with navy multi. so much for a bit harder.
and 3k+ isk/lp makes things bloody nice doesn't it
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.02 19:56:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Marko Riva I don't fly a Pali, but having read the thread and doing some EFT Fu I kinda came to this.
- Killing stuff at uber range with tachyons is no good because then it's outside tractorbeam range, making the paladin kinda useless. It does work well with within "operational marauder range" because of high damage crystals but it has other issues like fitting and tracking.
- Using pulses doesn't give enough range (or damage at range) unless using scorch which isn't always handy
Solution? something in the middle, like megabeams. Good damage within the 40km marauder range, can hit further out without issues. Doesn't have fitting issues and tracking is better than tachs. Perhaps I'm just stupid or something...
Looting/salvaging is more of an "as convenient" than a must do, and I'd say most wrecks end up at 25-50km, where tachs with multi is awesomesauce! no reason to take a damage downgrade to megabeams when you can just wait for things to get in range if you really want to loot.
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Jennz
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Posted - 2010.03.03 11:11:00 -
[85]
It depends on what your objectives are. If you just want to complete missions as fast as you're probably either not salvaging at all, or using something faster (i.e. 4 tractors, 4 salvagers, MWD) for the job.
Just because the Marauders have a tractor bonus doesn't mean you have to use it as your dedicated salvage ship.
I would contest that waiting for things to get into Pulse range and tractoring everything is probably slower than just BBQ'ing everything at whatever range they happen to be at when you land in the mission with Tachs and coming back afterwards (or not) in a dedicated faster salvage ship, perhaps even on an alt for even faster completion times.
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