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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.02.25 00:50:00 -
[1]
I see a bunch of websites with 4 shield hardeners. HereÆs oneà
Sansha/Blood - 2 EM, 2 TH Serpentis/EOM - 2 KI, 2 TH Angels/Rogue Drones - 2 INV, 1 EX, 1 EX/KI Guristas - 2 KI, 1 TH, 1 KI/INV Mercs - 2 INV, 1 KI, 1 TH
Liang posted this about his/her CNR setupà
Originally by: Liang Nuren
...3 T2 Hardeners [rat specific]...
-Liang
What should I use for 3 shield hardeners? How about 3 armor hardeners?
Here is what I am thinking for shield hardenersà
Sansha/Blood - 1 EM, 1 TH, 1 INV Serpentis/EOM - 1 KI, 1 TH, 1 INV Angels/Rogue Drones - 2 EX, 1 INV Guristas - 2 KI, 1 TH Mercs - 1 TH, 2 INV
I have no idea for armor tank?
Thoughts?
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Kittel
Caldari Black Rise Angels Dead Reckoning Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.25 01:06:00 -
[2]
3 - inv and 2 specific (inv, em, exp) as example save the other slot for something else target painter, sensor booster, AB/MWD, etc
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Pixe1storm
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Posted - 2010.02.25 01:21:00 -
[3]
Damage profile isnt 50/50 For example for Sansha its 60% Em 32% Th 8% Kn Using 2x Em hardeners and 1x Th makes perfect sense.
You can google the rest.
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Pantload
Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.02.25 03:11:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Pixe1storm Damage profile isnt 50/50 For example for Sansha its 60% Em 32% Th 8% Kn Using 2x Em hardeners and 1x Th makes perfect sense.
You can google the rest.
Ok this begs an interesting question. What are the currently known damage profiles for the npcs?
I thought Sanshas/Bloods were roughly 55/45 EM/Therm, for example.
How out-of-date is the old Og Rank NPC damage profile page? Linkage
That is one older reference I used for guessing at npc damage profiles. I'm curious of some more recent information. It's been a little while since I missioned actively.
Are Guristas roughly 80/20 Kin/Therm still? What is the rough profile for Mercs...or Drones? I mean, now...
Just curious to prompt a little discussion of this.
Talk amongst yourselves
PL
TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy Corps here
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.02.25 10:16:00 -
[5]
If you want more experienced advice on damage types you should post in the mission forum, to avoid EFT pvp wannabe trolls like mi.. cough :)
It depends on your fit and style basically, some ships are great for active tanking with big boosters, some tend to use small boosters, active tank I generally prefer 3 res mods because inv fields are so sweet. Passive tank you might go even less, or more, depending on ship.
For armour tanks it's a bit different, unless you spend too much iskies on very expensive EANMs I guess. You want more resistance because of the difference between armour and shield tanking (like there is no way to increase the rep amount anywhere near shield boost capability, but, armour tanking is a lot easier to run capstable). Only t2 ships can do with less resistance mods easily.
All the above is prolly crap Drone Guide
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.02.25 11:22:00 -
[6]
So, are my suggested 3 hardeners OK/optimal for an active shield tank?
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.02.25 12:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Pixe1storm Damage profile isnt 50/50 For example for Sansha its 60% Em 32% Th 8% Kn Using 2x Em hardeners and 1x Th makes perfect sense.
You can google the rest.
Not always as easy as that. Most armor tankers have 50% base EM resistance, and often a much lower TH resistance (say, 20% perhaps). In that case, even with Sansha dealing major EM damage, it's a better choice to go for 1x EM and 2x TH hardeners (effectively bringing your TH resistance above your EM resistance). Having two EM hardeners and just one TH will result in a lower tank value. EFT is your friend. Enter the damage values into the config file if you haven't already, and then play around with hardeners.
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.02.26 00:33:00 -
[8]
Yeah... I use a work computer a bunch, so I can't EFT.
I was hoping a few mission pros would post some of their 3 hardener fits.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.26 01:12:00 -
[9]
just what I use, could be some more optimal setups out there sansha/blood, 2em 1 therm gursitas/eom/serp 2 kin 1 therm angels/mercs/drones 2 invlun 1 boost amp.
for armor I usually just use 2 Navy EANM 1 dcII, switch to 2 kin 1 therm for guristas.
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.02.26 01:45:00 -
[10]
Thanx!!!
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.26 03:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton just what I use, could be some more optimal setups out there sansha/blood, 2em 1 therm gursitas/eom/serp 2 kin 1 therm angels/mercs/drones 2 invlun 1 boost amp.
Mostly agreed: - 2 Inv/Explosive for Angels/Drones - 2 Inv/Thm for Mercs (almost 40% of their damage is thermal!) - Kin/Thm/Inv for Serp
I think the real take away here is that missions are easy to tank with 3 hardeners. Dropping down to 2 means you're almost certainly going to be using faction invulns.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Mara Abraham
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.28 03:38:00 -
[12]
Greetings:
Is http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=TankingGuide correct that Sansha, Blood raiders, and Amarr do 50% em and 50% thermal?
If yes, would it make sense for 1 invul, 1 em, 1 therm compared to 2 em and 1 therm?
Is http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=TankingGuide still accurate?
If not, is there a better summary / guide?
Thank you.
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.02.28 23:18:00 -
[13]
Yeah, that was my thinking too?
CUrious about 3 armor hardeners???
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.28 23:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nuthyn Yeah, that was my thinking too?
CUrious about 3 armor hardeners???
I dislike armor tanking in missions, because you can't fit as many damage mods. I've run with: - Domi, LAR + 4 Hardeners. The tank feels thin, but you'll make it through everything. - Domi, LAR + 3 Hardeners + 2 ANP. The tank is slightly less thin and feels a lot more comfortable. - Abaddon, LAR + 2 EANM. The tank is a bit thin, but you'll manage most of the time. - Abaddon, LAR + 3 Hardeners. This is fairly nice.
As a general rule, you can download the rat damages (or calculate it on a by mission basis) and simply use that damage profile in Pyfa/EFT.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.03.16 10:06:00 -
[15]
Just a bit of a bump.
I am still looking for a 3 hardeners armor fit.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.16 10:47:00 -
[16]
As Minmatar Maelstrom pilot I don't have a lot of mid slots so I just use 3 hardeners and missions are still easy enough. Depending on the damage proportions:
- if primary damage is predominant (i.e. 60% therm) I put 2 hardeners + 1 vs the secondary damage.
- if primary damage is more 50-55% I put 1 primary damage hardener + 1 secondary damage hardener + 1 invuln
- if damage is spread I put 1 primary damage hardener + 2 invulns (ie 1 therm 2 invulns)
- in special missions (ie some few Angels missions with certain BS sub-types) I put 1 expl, 1 kin, 1 EM
- a very valuable damage reduction comes by using an AB, so I always have it on my long range mission boat.
I might drop the AB and go for 4 hardeners on my brawler setup, everything dies before they get off to 26km anyway.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.16 10:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 16/03/2010 10:56:06
Originally by: Nuthyn Just a bit of a bump.
I am still looking for a 3 hardeners armor fit.
It's not that simple.
For Sansha/Blood Raider missions, you're best off using 2xTH and 1xEM hardener (since your EM resistance is already at 50%).
For Gallente missions you're best off with 2xKN and 1xTH hardener.
I can't recall the rest. I know it differs from mission to mission - some work best with 2 Hardeners and 1 EANM. I'd advise you to use the EFT Damage Profiles. You're sure to find a thread about it somewhere, will not use space here explaining how to enter them and what the values are.
@Vaerah Vahrokha He is *specifically* interested in armor tank setups...
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.03.16 11:20:00 -
[18]
Yes, you can easily use 3 hardners for some missions. But it's easier to just set targets. When I do a mission, I try to reach 80% resistance in the primary damage types. This is ofcourse harder on angles than sansha, but it's a good rule of thumb.
On a special note, with Gurista I use 3xKinetic hardners. Though some of them actually shoot rails, that makes up for very little compared to the amount of kinetic missiles being thrown at you. The 3x kin gives me about 90% resistance and a very comfortable tank. Might be able to do it with just 2, but havn't tried yet :)
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.16 13:06:00 -
[19]
Quote:
@Vaerah Vahrokha He is *specifically* interested in armor tank setups...
Well, the OP has these sentences:
Quote:
I see a bunch of websites with 4 shield hardeners. HereÆs oneà
Sansha/Blood - 2 EM, 2 TH...
Quote:
What should I use for 3 shield hardeners? How about 3 armor hardeners?
therefore I was answering the "3 shield hardeners" bit.
Quote:
Yes, you can easily use 3 hardners for some missions. But it's easier to just set targets.
I just follow this thought: CCP has to make missions doable by all the races. Some races (ie Minmatar) have slot layouts that yield to gimpier tank. This means that mainstream missions (l4) are balanced to be possibly be done with those gimpier tanks and it's why 3 hardeners work well enough. 4 is overkill in every ranged situation and even for many close range situations.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.16 15:08:00 -
[20]
http://eveinfo.com/npcship/24165/eve-online-core-flotilla-admiral.html
that gives you the breakdown of damage dealt and damage taken on shields and armor on every npc in the game. Then you can decide what hardeners based on mission and native resists.
-------------------------------------------------- This is clearly a rage post because I lost my ship to a Lvl4 mission, We lost around 1.5b worth of tower, fuel and modules total. (Pause for amu |
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Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.03.16 16:56:00 -
[21]
Can't really say much about shield since I don't fly any yet. But for armor I go with a DCII and 3 hardneners on my Domi 2 primary resist and 1 secondary. So 2 kin/1 therm against Gurista's flipped for Serpentis or 2 exp/1 kin against Angels.
That leaves me with 3 extra lows for either 1 LAR + 2 damage mods or 2 LAR and a PG mod if I'm facing something with a lot of incoming dps like say the Worlds Collide Gurista room where I can just park at the warp in point while I kill stuff.
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.04.02 16:18:00 -
[22]
Just a bump.
Busy.
More later.
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Nuthyn
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Posted - 2010.04.12 01:39:00 -
[23]
OKà I am back.
I came up with this for shields and I have reviewed some of the variations, so thank you to all.
Sansha/Blood - 1 EM, 1 TH, 1 INV Serpentis/EOM - 1 KI, 1 TH, 1 INV Angels/Rogue Drones - 2 EX, 1 INV Guristas - 2 KI, 1 TH Mercs - 1 TH, 2 INV
Could this be modified for armor tanking like thisà
Sansha/Blood - 1 EM, 1 TH, 1 EANM2 Serpentis/EOM - 1 KI, 1 TH, 1 EANM2 Angels/Rogue Drones - 2 EX, 1 EANM2 Guristas - 2 KI, 1 TH Mercs - 1 TH, 2 EANM2
àwith all Armor Compensations skill to 5 (EANM does benefit from them right)???
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Brentum Kaltarr
Elemental Foundries
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:26:00 -
[24]
This is what I use for Amarrian** battleships and the Paladin, for an active PvE armour tank. It was taken a couple of years ago from the usual sources, and I re-analysed the numbers about a year ago as a couple of the arrangements were getting stressed (specifically Drones & Mercs). Have used them as is since then, not suffered any stressing of the tank outside of my own absent-minded mistakes.
** emphasised because these hardener arrangements will not suit other races, despite what other recipients of this list have expensively assumed...
HS = Heatsink Resist modules are the Active Hardener sets of your choice
Gurista / EoM Dmg: 0.75 kin / 0.25 therm Tank: 3 x Kin + 1 x Therm + 2 x HS Gank: 2 x Kin + 1 x Therm + 3 x HS
Angel Dmg: 0.7 exp / 0.2 kin / 0.1 em Tank: 3 x Exp + 1 x Kin + 2 HS Gank: 2 x Exp + 1 x Kin + 3 x HS
Sansha / Amarr empire / Blood Raider Dmg: 0.55 em / 0.45 therm Tank: 2 x EM + 2 x Therm + 2 x HS Gank: 1 x EM + 2 x Therm + 3 x HS
Serpentis / Caldari state Dmg: 0.5 kin / 0.5 therm Tank: 2 x Kin + 2 x Therm + 2 x HS Gank: 1 x Kin + 1 x Therm + 1 x DCU II + 3 x HS
Gallente federation Dmg: 0.6 kin / 0.4 therm Tank: 2 x Kin + 2 x Therm + 2 x HS Gank: 2 x Kin + 1 x Therm + 3 x HS
Minmatar republic Dmg: 0.5 exp / 0.2 em / 0.2 kin / 0.1 therm Tank: 2 x Exp + 1 x Kin + 1 x EM or DCU II
Mercenaries Dmg: 0.68 therm / 0.32 kin Tank: 2 x Therm + 2 x Kin + 2 x HS Gank: 2 x Therm + 1 x Kin + 3 x HS
Rogue Drone Dmg: 0.35 exp / 0.26 kin / 0.26 therm / 0.13 em Tank: 1 x Exp + 1 x Therm + 1 x Kin + 1 x DCUII + 2 x HS Gank: 1 x Exp + 1 x Therm + 1 x Kin + 3 x HS
Enemies Abound 5 (Minmatar) Dmg: 0.5 exp / 0.15 em / 0.25 kin / 0.1 therm Tank: 2 x Exp + 1 x Kin + 1 x DCU II
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nuthyn
Could this be modified for armor tanking like thisà
Sansha/Blood - 1 EM, 1 TH, 1 EANM2
I used to run with those, and then started using a second active therm hardener. Drones are the only other time I use an armour tank these days and I tend to rely on range and killspeed for them anyway, so I can't really help with the rest. You need to start looking at native resists though; native armour resists are backwards to shield ones, check the total resists before you undock.
Quote:
àwith all Armor Compensations skill to 5 (EANM does benefit from them right)???
It does, yes.
Some of this also depends on the mission, and the ship; if you're killing mercs from range, for instance, you'll take most of the damage from missiles ( likewise Gurista ) so you can adjust the tank a little.
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