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Gethis Stark
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Posted - 2010.02.26 14:05:00 -
[1]
I was trying to sort my corp (not this character) into respective wings so we could do payouts based on wing performance. The concept was that i would assign each corpie to a wing and set an active wallet to them, basically thier bounties etc would then run from that wing, however i cant do that at all. I suspect that this may be shot down in flames as something that doesnt return anything to the masses, however from a corp managment point of view it is one i would love to see.
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Dek Kato
Amarr Delusions of Mediocrity
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Posted - 2010.02.26 17:43:00 -
[2]
I think I understand what you're saying, and it seems like it could be a good idea, but you really need to actually make it into a coherent idea. Plan it, possibly mock it up, then post it.
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Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.02.27 02:10:00 -
[3]
If you are trying to designate corp tax to the members that paid it, why don't you set corp tax to zero? Item sales, manufacturing charges, and I'm reasonably sure everything else that can be handled via corp wallet subdivisions is already functional in game.
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Gethis Stark
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Posted - 2010.03.24 10:45:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gethis Stark on 24/03/2010 10:46:22 Implimentation of member assigned wallets.
Some time ago I started working on a proposal to have members assigned to wallets in the corporation. At the time I was asked to clarify what exactly I meant and how it might be done so after some thinking I am re-proposing this idea.
Problems: Currently in my corporation I am unable to assign a wallet to a member. By default all members pay into the ôMasterö wallet unless I was to give them an accountant role or director role. This restriction prevents me from assigning my members to wings which pay into a wallet and then pay out dividends (personally calculated from the wallet, I am not currently proposing a dividends by wallet setting approach although the lazy part of me likes this idea) based on that wings performance. I am unable to assign or calculate the returns on investment that my wings are currently making, In effect I would like to be able to invest in wings that are bringing in a solid return consistently and leave those who wish to be packrats to retain their individual wealth without rewarding them for the efforts of the more focused corporate operations.
Proposals: 1.Allow members to be assigned a specific wallet that automatically accepts the tax from bounties / mission rewards. 2.Allow members to be assigned a specific wallet that automatically accepts the tax from bounties / mission rewards, and create a Role specific to this wallet that would similar to accountant role but specific to a wallet. 3.Allow members to be assigned a specific wallet that automatically accepts the tax from bounties / mission rewards, and create a Role specific to this wallet that would similar to accountant role but specific to a wallet. Allow dividends to be paid out on specific wallets so that only members assigned to these wallets receive a reward for their Wings efforts. (Yes I can calculate this myself however, with a wife and 2 young kids I like to be able to actually do something with my game time that doesnÆt involve sitting down and calculating returns on efforts for the members of my corp.)
Potential issues: 1.May be non trivial to organise as you are increasing the lookups on the database, something that the need for speed initiative wont like much 2.Additional workload in addition to point 1. Also requires touching on the Roles for corporations that has not been retouched since I started playing several years ago. Adds a further level of complexity on role management which may not be well understood. 3.Additional efforts which will compound the code change effects and the risk with implementing this.
Conclusions My personal preference as a player is 3 as I get the most bang for my buck with this however I am enough of a realist to be very happy with option 1. It massivly simplifies corporate management and returns for members for those corporations that give a damn about these sort of things. Granted there are organisations that quiet frankly donÆt give a damn about rewarding their members other than to buy Stuff Ö and do more StuffÖ with it. However I would anticipate that the concept of setting out a reward structure for your active members is likely to increase the use of this functionality as it would breed loyalty to your corporation and (theoretically) increase the amount of money people are willing to invest in the corporation. Granted it does nothing about taxing Miners, or loot drops or market traders but those are issues I do not think can be addressed as easily as this.
I would like to thank Dek Kato and Tellenta for their responses on my first draft of this subject.
(Supporting of your own topic FTW?) [edit: there is more than one proposal, proper proofreading only works after coffee]
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steave435
Caldari Final Agony B A N E
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Posted - 2010.03.24 11:44:00 -
[5]
I wouldn't mind this, but I think very few would use it, and as such, it is not worth the developer time required to code it, especially since you can allready keep track of this on your own by simply making an API program that pulls that data from the high sec API of someone with access to view all wallet divisions and then calculate it. You'd just have to store who is in which group/wing in a database and then each transaction to the master wallet from from that person gets added to the group total when the API is run.
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Matalino on 24/03/2010 15:24:34 The problem with the feature request is that it is highly specific to your corp structure. I expect that the number of corps that would use these features is fairly small, but the amount of developer time needed to impliment them is likely to be large.
It sounds like most of what you want can be calculated automaticly using a custom application that get the data it needs from the API. You could then copy-paste amounts to be transfered from your custom application to the game client to complete the needed ISK transfers. The API can even access corp roles/titles, so even wing assignments can be automated.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:42:00 -
[7]
This isn't highly specific. There are many other cases where it would be useful for certain automated payments (read taxes) to go into a wallet of your choice. For instance, a corp op where all proceeds go into a certain fund.
Rather than having to go back through the master wallet and do maths to separate out the amount that should go into the fund after the fact, it would be far easier to funnel the funds into that wallet for that day (or however long).
Additionally, it can be useful to have funds automatically divided among different wallets constantly. It could be useful to have a %2 tax going to a ship fund, a %4 tax going to POS management, a 4% tax going to alliance fees, etc...
From a corp management perceptive, it would be nice to have better control over automatic distribution of corp funds. Plus, it would give corp members better oversight of their leadership. It would no longer be really easy to siphon funds out of a corp. I mean, people do it, make them actually have to put some effort into it.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.03.24 18:21:00 -
[8]
You already have the tools needed for this; API access to transaction logs, etc.
What you are asking for is highly specialized features that can't really be expected to be done without outside tools.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.24 18:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab You already have the tools needed for this; API access to transaction logs, etc.
What you are asking for is highly specialized features that can't really be expected to be done without outside tools.
It can be tracked by corp leadership with outside tools. This is not the same as being taken care of in a transparent fashion by the game. |
Gethis Stark
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab You already have the tools needed for this; API access to transaction logs, etc.
What you are asking for is highly specialized features that can't really be expected to be done without outside tools.
It can be tracked by corp leadership with outside tools. This is not the same as being taken care of in a transparent fashion by the game.
Thank you Bagehi, you pretty much have hit the nail on the head. While i already grant all my full corporation members the junior accountant role to let them see what is going on, i dont see this using a external tool as a particularly good way of building up trust.
Rakshasa, I am curious as to your phraseology, I am assuming you are refering to the dev effort involved in creating the tool rather than the difficulty of creating an extra function, inner joins and lookups for Database queries?
Furthermore if we use an internal to the game tool / method to do this there is less chance of someone developing a tool to do this and "accidentally" harvest logins and passwords to be reported back when the tool checks for updates. Yes i know there are those on here who are exceptionally good at coding and are able to design this tool without too much effort, or analysing the code to see exactly what it does. I unfortunatly tend to be able to test code and get a rough idea what it does while being able to write "Hello World" scripts on a good day.
One of the reasons it may be that more corporations do not do this is the amount of effort involved in executing this, as well as implicit trust in the person who develops the code. I am going to have a bash at throwing something together, but the key point is that an internal CCP tool that actually helps Corp managment or industry hasnt been delivered in a significant amount of time. Furthermore it simplifies Director / CEO workload which is already high enough as it is. Yes the vast majority of the great unwashed who have no exposure to this wont give a d**n either way, but it certainly would make financial tracking and investment planning a lot easier.
Granted i understand the "If it aint Broke dont fix it" argument, but just because we could use flint and steels and an open fire for all our cooking, i bet theres a few of you who like using a microwave occasionally.
Incidentally, by default i would anticipate the default wallet would remain master unless otherwise specified. As stated earlier I am aware that this would probably not be a trivial thing to address, however eventually, a sprint team may possibly look at Wallets, Roles, and Industry hence proposing it. Anyways off to VS to see if i can remember how to make a function.
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Dek Kato
Delusions of Mediocrity
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Posted - 2010.03.25 16:21:00 -
[11]
Thats a good outline. I can certainly understand the use of this, especially as corporations start to scale up in size. This could certainly go along with a more generalized overhaul of the Corp management system, which IMO is already needed. Your current proposal is actually only specific because you're stating your specific use of this potential function. You could use it for example to allow investment on a specific thing (we'll use a BPO as an example), and then pay dividends only based on that investment's performance by using a certain wallet for the sales generated by that BPO. In general, just allow more control of what money goes where, and allow dividends to be paid to different groups from different wallets. Supported.
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Gethis Stark
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Posted - 2010.03.26 09:41:00 -
[12]
Dek, mind expanding on your train of thought a bit, im trying to get this proposal workable for the greatest number of people, so clarity would be my friend on this. I assume you are refering to assigning BPO's to wallet devisions / hangers or similar? and then using the proposed wallet function mechanism to track the ROI?
Theoretically i suppose you could also use it to track ship loss rates for various wings within your corp if you are constantly having to replace the ships by buying them for your members on this wallet that would give you a good idea as to performance indices.
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