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Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2010.02.27 10:14:00 -
[1]
Posting with Alt
As the topic states Im a proteus pilot, got the ship just this week. Throughout my Eve life I've mainly been a combat pilot so my skills good.
I am wanting to go do some WH complexs which means going up against sleepers my knowledge of sleepers are as follows:
They have roughly 70% omni tank on armor with little shield tank. I am also aware they hate drones.
My question is this:
Do I setup the proteus with a large buffer, example:
Augmented Plating Sub System [10% hitpoints per lvl]
2 x 1600 rolled tungsten plate I 2 x Energized adaptive nanos II 2 x magstabs [Faction] 1 x Damage control II
or set up with no buffer but with repper.
Adaptive Plating Sub System [5% resist to all dmg types per lvl]
1 x 1600 rolled tungsten I 2 x Energized adaptive nanos II 2 x Magstabs [Faction] 1 x repper [Faction] 1 x Damage control II
I know the dangers of wormholes and getting ganked I know to check scanner every nano second. This will be for myself solo class 1 and 2. Ive read class 3 are in need of a squad of 3 guys so thats not on the cards for me yet.
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Endear
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Posted - 2010.02.27 10:39:00 -
[2]
I can solo everything but the Radar sites (hardest ones) in class 3's with a drake. So keep that in mind, you may be able to pull the anomalies off in them and none of them have any scramming to my knowledge.
You probably want a repper considering a buffer is going to give you a limited amount of time before you will have to repair.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.02.27 15:20:00 -
[3]
Unless you're fitting it for possible PvP encounters, plates aren't really much use in PvE. It's all about resists and repair amounts. On my Proteus i've got at least 80% resists in everything, with one being 90%, and can run dual medium reppers stable with plenty of cap to spare.
My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Amberlamps
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Posted - 2010.02.27 16:22:00 -
[4]
You're a bit boned if someone drops in on you in a Cerb/Drake or infact any anti cruiser ship. PvE = must have reppers or passive recharge.
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CCP Shadow
Caldari C C P
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Posted - 2010.02.27 16:56:00 -
[5]
Thread moved to its new home in Ships and Modules.
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.02.27 21:36:00 -
[6]
You cant buffer fit a armored ship in PVE...ESP in WH`s where repair is a hell of a ways off...You need a repper but really you need a ship better suited to WH`s IMO.
The Prot is a great ship but the worst Wh`er of all the T3`s in this order
Tengu
Loki/Legion
Drake
Prot If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2010.02.28 10:39:00 -
[7]
Can I ask why in your opinion is the prot the worst T3? I know PvE cannot be compared to WHs but lvl4s cant even break into my armor tank yet It's faster than my Navy Mega on lvl4s.
DPS is not bad at all the tank is wicked.
Im not arguing im sincerely asking you why in your op the prot is the worst?
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.02.28 11:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz Can I ask why in your opinion is the prot the worst T3? I know PvE cannot be compared to WHs but lvl4s cant even break into my armor tank yet It's faster than my Navy Mega on lvl4s.
DPS is not bad at all the tank is wicked.
Im not arguing im sincerely asking you why in your op the prot is the worst?
Mostly because sleepers hate drones and hybrids are currently awaiting their turn in the FotM->Okay->Omgunderpowered cycle. The Proteus is a great ship for a lot of things, it just falls behind when it comes to sleepers.
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.02.28 11:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz
Im not arguing im sincerely asking you why in your op the prot is the worst?
Two scnearios:
1) You fit blasters. The Sleepers web you. You spend eons waiting for your ship to MWD into range while your MWD increased signature radius negates a good portion of your tank and you take most missile damage and almost full laser damage from the Sleeper cruisers and battleships.
2) You fit railguns.
The Sleepers laugh at your pathetic DPS.
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Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2010.03.01 10:15:00 -
[10]
I will have to disagree at the DPS issue. Simply because your wrong, way way wrong.
Correct me if im wrong but missile boats not only have travel time but really slow cycles compared to missiles.
My cycle time is just over 3 seconds so that's possibly 3 cycles to your 1 cycle.
In my 3 cycles I can do the same raw damage that you make in your one cycle, possibly more.
Hybrids and railguns > very quick cycles.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.01 10:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz Correct me if im wrong but missile boats not only have travel time but really slow cycles compared to missiles.
Doesn't matter. What matters is how much damage you put out and…
Quote: In my 3 cycles I can do the same raw damage that you make in your one cycle, possibly more.
…since this isn't the case with rails, you end up doing less damage (and at less range, at that). If you go with blasters instead, you do a bit more damage (at far less range – in fact, you'll very rarely be able to project it at all). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:43:00 -
[12]
Again I totally disagree, If you ever have used railguns and are highly skilled you'd know exactly what im on about.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:50:00 -
[13]
That's a pretty terrible answer.
If you're not prepared to share what magical strategy you employ that makes railguns viable where lasers & missiles do much better then there's no point posting at all. Saying "I disagree because I know how to make them work" isn't an counterpoint at all.
Proteus is just not a very good WH PVE ship, but conversely it's possibly the best WH PVP ship.
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fivetide humidyear
Gallente Fool Mental Junket
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Posted - 2010.03.01 12:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz Again I totally disagree, If you ever have used railguns and are highly skilled you'd know exactly what im on about.
i am reasonably highly skilled and have used railguns on gallente gunships for PVE. once. for the lols. and never again.
work well on a dominix as extra dps but seriously everyone in here is right, you just haven't tried the alternatives which are just better.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.03.01 15:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz Again I totally disagree, If you ever have used railguns and are highly skilled you'd know exactly what im on about.
I have good skills with gallente battleships (Gallente BS 5, tech II large guns, near maxed drone and gunnery skills, near maxed armor skills etc) You have no idea what you're talking about. Hybrids are horrible for pve, lasers, missiles and even autocannons are much better.
Here's a little tip regarding comparing damage done by guns: The vast majority of the time, when people refer to the damage a gun puts out, they're talking about it in DPS, the S there stands for second, not shot. When they say hybrids have horrible DPS they've already taken into account that they shoot much faster than missiles, the fact is that even with that superior rate of fire, the damn things just suck in PVE |
Nico Terces
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Posted - 2010.03.01 15:36:00 -
[16]
Hybrids are vastly inferior at pve because you can't dictate damage types. They're okay against serpentis, but once you start exploring the explosive / em weak targets, hybrids do basically f*ck all.
Furthermore railguns do inferior damage with horrible tracking up close. Once your targets orbit you their dps, low as it is, is useless. You have to hit something before you do damage. This also poses the problem for blasters. Since blasters have really ****ty range, and relatively not very good tracking, they tend to not hit their targets either. EFT gives impressive numbers for dps, but they practically are useless.
For wormhole proteus at least go with the armor repper. You dont want to do a return trip everytime you fight. Furthermore stable repper allows your fights to last indefinately, while a buffer basically is a timer until death.
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Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2010.03.02 10:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nico Terces Hybrids are vastly inferior at pve because you can't dictate damage types. They're okay against serpentis, but once you start exploring the explosive / em weak targets, hybrids do basically f*ck all.
Furthermore railguns do inferior damage with horrible tracking up close. Once your targets orbit you their dps, low as it is, is useless. You have to hit something before you do damage. This also poses the problem for blasters. Since blasters have really ****ty range, and relatively not very good tracking, they tend to not hit their targets either. EFT gives impressive numbers for dps, but they practically are useless.
For wormhole proteus at least go with the armor repper. You dont want to do a return trip everytime you fight. Furthermore stable repper allows your fights to last indefinately, while a buffer basically is a timer until death.
Finally someone actually read my question and answered it!! Thank you very much :)
I still disagree about Hybrids damage output. Yeah we cant change damage type like you guys can but 30 minutes to clear 95% of lvl4s killing everything isnt at all bad :)
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 10:47:00 -
[18]
With respect "30 minutes to kill 95% of L4s" isn't that impressive though, I would expect a Nightmare/Paladin or Golem to be completing mission(s) between wallet updates.
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.02 11:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz
Originally by: Nico Terces Hybrids are vastly inferior at pve because you can't dictate damage types. They're okay against serpentis, but once you start exploring the explosive / em weak targets, hybrids do basically f*ck all.
Furthermore railguns do inferior damage with horrible tracking up close. Once your targets orbit you their dps, low as it is, is useless. You have to hit something before you do damage. This also poses the problem for blasters. Since blasters have really ****ty range, and relatively not very good tracking, they tend to not hit their targets either. EFT gives impressive numbers for dps, but they practically are useless.
For wormhole proteus at least go with the armor repper. You dont want to do a return trip everytime you fight. Furthermore stable repper allows your fights to last indefinately, while a buffer basically is a timer until death.
Finally someone actually read my question and answered it!! Thank you very much :)
I still disagree about Hybrids damage output. Yeah we cant change damage type like you guys can but 30 minutes to clear 95% of lvl4s killing everything isnt at all bad :)
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
Sorry Hydro I didnt see thread to awnser why IMO the Prot is the worst PVE WHer its what was said before either you are in Sleeper ECM/Web range or you are at distance where you dont do great DMG. Not to mention the fact that sleepers will try to kite a Blaster ships since they sit at 17km-25km and wont let you closer unless you very fast.
Also your argument where you said Hi ROF is why blaster/Rails are better than missles is not true...My Tengu does about 4 sec ROF and there fore is better do to tracking and super range, also travel time doesnt mean anything in PVE.
Its simple Tengu does same DMG as blaster Prot does with similiar tank but does it at rails range, and never misses and if you bring a web/painter like I do kills them by the baskets
Tengu does 650 DPS@85km with a crazy active MED gist or small pithi booster that is cap stable, usually 500 omni tank but moves 600 m/s and has 200 sig radius so it shrugs of dmg...Not to mention its way more agile since it doesnt have to armor tank.
Legion does less...Around 450 DPS with good tank but it can do 45 km range and use no ammo=Tons of nano ribbons=ISK
Loki is fast as hell and good DPS dealer with weaker tank or good tank with not great tank, but still range is better and since faster can catch up to kiting Sleepers EZer.
Please respond Ill read it this time
But Prot is just a Animal/Monster/Titan in small gang WH PVP...Scary Good where another ship can help it lock u down so it doesnt have to always Change direction etc.
If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Eric Prince
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.02 12:41:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Eric Prince on 02/03/2010 12:41:19
Originally by: Hydroz0rz
Originally by: Nico Terces Hybrids are vastly inferior at pve because you can't dictate damage types. They're okay against serpentis, but once you start exploring the explosive / em weak targets, hybrids do basically f*ck all.
Furthermore railguns do inferior damage with horrible tracking up close. Once your targets orbit you their dps, low as it is, is useless. You have to hit something before you do damage. This also poses the problem for blasters. Since blasters have really ****ty range, and relatively not very good tracking, they tend to not hit their targets either. EFT gives impressive numbers for dps, but they practically are useless.
For wormhole proteus at least go with the armor repper. You dont want to do a return trip everytime you fight. Furthermore stable repper allows your fights to last indefinately, while a buffer basically is a timer until death.
Finally someone actually read my question and answered it!! Thank you very much :)
I still disagree about Hybrids damage output. Yeah we cant change damage type like you guys can but 30 minutes to clear 95% of lvl4s killing everything isnt at all bad :)
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
Shame you didn't read the bit you yourself quoted. Hybrids work fine againts therm/kin weak npc's, but anythign else, they suck. In God we trust, all others pay cash. |
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Vagrants Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.02 13:18:00 -
[21]
I do C1 and C2 sites in a PvP-fit Myrmidon so I don't think your fit will have much of an issue with them.
C3s *are* soloable but you can't approach them like you do lv. 4s. You'll be webbed to the point you can barely move most of the time, the incoming DPS is *much* higher (and omni so it's harder to tank), the sleeper rats don't come in close (not even the frigs, unless you count 8kms as close), and they shoot your drones.
Do some sleeper sites in a ship that doesn't cost 500 million ISK and get some practice, it's hairy until you get the hang of it. And as others have said the Proteus is a good ship but not really for WH PvE, IMO - it doesn't do enough DPS with rails and takes forever to get to range when you have a bunch of webs on you.
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Zamoria zwei
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Zamoria zwei on 02/03/2010 15:43:49 Fit the best omnitank u can get, fit long range rails, get sentrys, kill the sleepers. end of story.
damn forgot to switch to main^^
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.03 00:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zamoria zwei Edited by: Zamoria zwei on 02/03/2010 15:43:49 Fit the best omnitank u can get, fit long range rails, get sentrys, kill the sleepers. end of story.
damn forgot to switch to main^^
Why not use a domi then? Its insurable, good tank/DPS , but honestly Drones are far from Ideal In WH`s.....
Best thing would to be use a Diff race, so if you have any crosstraining I`d use it. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Zamoria
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Posted - 2010.03.04 00:41:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Zamoria on 04/03/2010 00:44:23 because the domi has less omnitank then a proteus plus large signature plus it is damn slow. the only disadvantage the proteus has is that it can only use 4 sentrys. And the ptoteus looks much cooler^^
oh and another point for the prot is that u can catch targets that orbit to far away. u cant catch a cheeta with a snail^^
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.03.04 00:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zamoria Edited by: Zamoria on 04/03/2010 00:44:23 because the domi has less omnitank then a proteus plus large signature plus it is damn slow. the only disadvantage the proteus has is that it can only use 4 sentrys. And the ptoteus looks much cooler^^
oh and another point for the prot is that u can catch targets that orbit to far away. u cant catch a cheeta with a snail^^
Domi tanks 600 dps omni with all 5 /cap stable/no implants and 2 mids for omnidirectional links, Proteus tanks 640, such huge difference!, oh yeah. domi can actually carry a decent amount of drones aswell
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.04 09:45:00 -
[26]
Lol and Domi carrys Large Guns or Nuets on top of the drones...Oh yeah did I mention fully insured and 90 mil vs 600- 1 bil.
Also the PVE Domi isnt far from the PVP one since you can carry such wide range of drones...The PVE Prot not so much, you can get caught with ur pants down...But who knows some like that If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Zamoria
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Posted - 2010.03.04 15:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Miriiah
Originally by: Zamoria Edited by: Zamoria on 04/03/2010 00:44:23 because the domi has less omnitank then a proteus plus large signature plus it is damn slow. the only disadvantage the proteus has is that it can only use 4 sentrys. And the ptoteus looks much cooler^^
oh and another point for the prot is that u can catch targets that orbit to far away. u cant catch a cheeta with a snail^^
Domi tanks 600 dps omni with all 5 /cap stable/no implants and 2 mids for omnidirectional links, Proteus tanks 640, such huge difference!, oh yeah. domi can actually carry a decent amount of drones aswell
u see that the damage u get comes down to signature radius and speed? the proteus tanks MUCH more when u count in those numbers. and u should check ur eft, u can get the proteus to much more omnitank. i am at work right now so i cant post a fit but i will when i come home.
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RaVeN Revenge
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Posted - 2010.03.04 18:08:00 -
[28]
Edited by: RaVeN Revenge on 04/03/2010 18:13:19 If you use the covert ops and nullifier subs , it gimps your DPS quite a bit. I think WH ops are better suited for a little more DPS than you will have.
My only experience is with class 5 WH btw , where I had to warp out so much , I never finished the site. Maybe class 3 and lower are doable. I have been ratting and plexing solo for several months now in mine.
As for Repper fits...YES , gotta have a decent repper .The best you can fit.
The T3 uses speed and syg radius for tank . I dont recomend T2 ammo , just faction ammo. I also recomend specific hardners , not adaptives ,stacked.
Edit/Add: With the covert sub , you can only fly light drones . With an investment of close to a billion and the fact that your running solo . I think the covert and nullifier subs are mandatory.
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