Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Madla Mafia
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 06:41:00 -
[1]
So there I was, scanning down a complex. I found a site, took a few minutes to pin point it, and ran my 0.24au scan range probes, only to get a 99.99% hit. "Oh well." I though... Better just run the scan again. 99.99% hit again. What? Again....99.99%. With 5 probes dead on the site, at 0.25au range, I got a 99.99% like 20 times in a row.
I was using a core probe launcher, with regular scan probes, are there certain sites that simply are unscannable if your gear is not good enough or what?!?
|
Barton Foley
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 06:55:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Madla Mafia 5 probes
Herp derp.
Quote: are there certain sites that simply are unscannable if your gear is not good enough or what?!?
Actually, yes. Well, gear/skills anyways. You can compensate for poor skills with good equipment (sisters launcher + probes, covops with rigs, etc) but if you have poor skills AND poor equipment, heh.
|
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 06:56:00 -
[3]
I hope you tried a tetrahedron probe arrangement.
Yes, signatures come in all sizes, and if you don't have the skills/gear for the really small ones, you will get very frustrated.
All you probably need is Sisters probes.
|
Alaik
Northstar Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 10:04:00 -
[4]
If you are using 5 probes in a cross, try moving them all slightly below the signature, and then move the middle probe above the signature. The change in angle sometimes is sufficient to get a better scan.
|
Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 10:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Madla Mafia With 5 probes dead on the site, at 0.25au range, I got a 99.99% like 20 times in a row.
The problem is that your probes are too close together. You say you place them dead on the site. This is wrong. Your probes should be atleast a quarter of their scan range apart, otherwise they interfere with each other and you won't be able to get a 100% signal.
The optimal placement is a three sided pyramid. Try placing three probes below and one probe above the signature. Place them so they are about half a scan range apart with the signature in the middle of the pyramid. Then you should get a 100% hit.
As a side note, the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
|
Ernesto DaSilva
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 11:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence As a side note, the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
That's wrong. I've yet scanned down any site to 100% with a cross. That's with a combined scan strength of 102.
|
Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 11:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
As a side note, the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
Huh. I guess scanning down all those stupidly low strength RADAR/magnetometric sites, wormholes, escalation plexes, and even 10/10s using a flat cross configuration was a fluke. I must be doing it wrong?
|
Madla Mafia
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 15:22:00 -
[8]
Yeah I tried both having all probes right on it, and having them scattered around it, still having each probe cover parts of it. Still failed. Guess I need Sisters Probes and work on my skills a bit.
|
Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 16:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 28/02/2010 16:04:39 LOL, try logging and reconnect to lost probes and run new scan. stupid I know but it works.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 18:04:00 -
[10]
...You know, range is a part of the equation too. Move the probes closer.
|
|
AgentFruitfly
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 18:59:00 -
[11]
with a hit that close, you just need to fiddle slightly with the probe locations
|
Kva Plexcha
Gallente Doing You Right
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 20:05:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 28/02/2010 20:06:22 Make sure with 4 probes that the angle they are apart is as close to 90 degrees as possible (this is the nice part of the cross configuration, how easy this is to do) and that they are on the same plane. The game uses math in calculating the sig position, and the closest the probes are to 90 the better the result. Also helps, the probes are equal distance from the sig.
As far as probes too close, at .25 au and max zoom, sometimes you have to have the probes almost completely overlapping. It all depends on your base scan strength of probes in your probe launcher. I scan every site in game with a scan strength of 82+. When you are scanning at any other range than 0.25 then you have to make sure the probes arent too close together. I try and have the area where the 4 probes overlap to be slightly bigger than the area an individual probe covers. Scan deviation skills and implants help in increasing the size of your overlap without losing the sig.
TLDR - Probe placement is critical and greatly affects scan result!
|
Alaik
Northstar Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 21:32:00 -
[13]
I have yet to find a site I can't scan down with a cross shape of 5 probes. No, it's not optimal, but yes, it's a lot faster for me than the D4 shape.
Sometimes, on the very hardest sites when I am down to 0.25au, I need to raise the central probe above the sig rather than being on the same plane as the rest, but this is rare. I use a T1 scanning frigate with grav rigs but with normal core probe launcher/probes. So, covops with sisters + implants + D4 shape isn't really needed. My skills are at Astrometrics IV and the rest at III.
|
Grasse
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 22:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Madla Mafia So there I was, scanning down a complex. I found a site, took a few minutes to pin point it, and ran my 0.24au scan range probes, only to get a 99.99% hit. "Oh well." I though... Better just run the scan again. 99.99% hit again. What? Again....99.99%. With 5 probes dead on the site, at 0.25au range, I got a 99.99% like 20 times in a row.
I was using a core probe launcher, with regular scan probes, are there certain sites that simply are unscannable if your gear is not good enough or what?!?
When you get multiple 99%,, just back all your probes off 1 range setting,, works everytime for me in my short scanning time... generally going from 0.25 back to 0.5 will give you a green light..
|
Scrumpy Jim
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 08:52:00 -
[15]
In my experience and from reading around, I've concluded that only the strongest 4 probe signals are used to calculate the signal strength.
I've found 5 probes in a cross shape is the fastest way to get a lock on most sites due to the larger overlap of 4 probes scanning areas.
I am fairly low skilled and for the harder sites the none-optimal cross shape will not get a 100% lock. For these sites, I switch to the tetrahedron probe formation with the signature at the centre of the tetrahedron and the 4 probes spaced around the signature as uniformly as possible. About 1/4 of the scan range from the signature (scan range set at 0.25AU) seems fairly optimal, but to get a lock I sometimes have to move the probes in/out a bit and check for increasing/decreasing signal strength. Too close will reduce signal strength, too far will also reduce signal strength.
For a higher skilled character a cross shape can probably be used for all sites and less precise probe placement will also probably be ok.
I've found the most valuable skill for getting a decent hit is astrometric rangefinding.
Repeated scans without moving the probes will result in the same signal strength. Even a small movement in probes can be sufficient to get the elusive final 0.1-0.5% signal needed.
|
Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 09:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 28/02/2010 11:29:16
Originally by: Nareg Maxence As a side note, the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
That's wrong. I've yet scanned down any site to 100% with a cross. That's with a combined scan strength of 102.
edit: don't want to argue that the cross is the best positioning. but the tetrahedron is a pita and the cross gets the job done. maybe not with really poor skills and no covops.
The reason tetrahedron formation doesn't work for people is because they fail.
L2P is all there is to say about it.
|
Ernesto DaSilva
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 10:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 28/02/2010 11:29:16
Originally by: Nareg Maxence As a side note, the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
That's wrong. I've yet scanned down any site to 100% with a cross. That's with a combined scan strength of 102.
edit: don't want to argue that the cross is the best positioning. but the tetrahedron is a pita and the cross gets the job done. maybe not with really poor skills and no covops.
The reason tetrahedron formation doesn't work for people is because they fail.
L2P is all there is to say about it.
IDK whether you think i fail at building a tetrahedron. regardless, why should one bother to build a tetrahedron when a cross gets the job done and is easier to handle?
i just said that you're wrong when you're saying that a cross will only work for the easiest sites. if i ever come across a sig i can't scan down to 100% with a cross (which hasn't happened so far) i'd fall back to a tetrahedron.
l2pefficient i'd say about it.
|
Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 10:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 28/02/2010 11:29:16
Originally by: Nareg Maxence As a side note, the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
That's wrong. I've yet scanned down any site to 100% with a cross. That's with a combined scan strength of 102.
edit: don't want to argue that the cross is the best positioning. but the tetrahedron is a pita and the cross gets the job done. maybe not with really poor skills and no covops.
The reason tetrahedron formation doesn't work for people is because they fail.
L2P is all there is to say about it.
IDK whether you think i fail at building a tetrahedron. regardless, why should one bother to build a tetrahedron when a cross gets the job done and is easier to handle?
i just said that you're wrong when you're saying that a cross will only work for the easiest sites. if i ever come across a sig i can't scan down to 100% with a cross (which hasn't happened so far) i'd fall back to a tetrahedron.
l2pefficient i'd say about it.
Fair enough, but regarding efficiency, let's do a scanning contest and see who gets a whole wspace system to 100% the fastest..
|
Tian Nu
Evil Ppl
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 11:41:00 -
[19]
DonĘt know if it helps but with awesome scanning skills I get the 99.9% time to time when I get hit on ship inside POS shield. Then I need to move probes little to get 100%. As ppl told ya before you only need 3 probes to get hit on something but moving them bit can help. PS. I never got 99.9% on plex only on scanning ships.
|
Madla Mafia
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 13:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Grasse
When you get multiple 99%,, just back all your probes off 1 range setting,, works everytime for me in my short scanning time... generally going from 0.25 back to 0.5 will give you a green light..
Interesting. I'll have to try that next time. I ended up getting a 100% hit eventually, but only after I bought a Heron (sold in local) and fitted the launcher and sisters probes on that ship.
|
|
Gavin DeVries
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 15:52:00 -
[21]
I use 5 probes in a cross formation for the speed of it. Every now and then the game goes wonky in deciding which 4 of those probes it will use, and I can't get 100%. Every time this happens, I just deactivate whichever probe is in the center and scan again. It's always worked. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
MoHawk Nephilium
THE Perfectly Insane Tactical Unison Allied Forces
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 19:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Barton Foley
Originally by: Madla Mafia 5 probes
Herp derp.
Quote: are there certain sites that simply are unscannable if your gear is not good enough or what?!?
Actually, yes. Well, gear/skills anyways. You can compensate for poor skills with good equipment (sisters launcher + probes, covops with rigs, etc) but if you have poor skills AND poor equipment, heh.
Exactly what he said, GO ALL OUT, if you can't afford the sisters at least get the gravity rigs.
|
Iaoth
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 19:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence ..................the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
The amount of BS spewn in these forums is astounding.
Unless, of course, you are simply telling lies for the lols?
Or is it possible that you simply lack the skills to make it work?
Hmmmmmm?
|
Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 22:08:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Hixxy on 01/03/2010 22:09:17 about a month ago i thought it didnt matter if you had 8 probes out(i.e the game would pick the 4 best/closest probes, eve only uses 4 to scan) after some testing i've worked out that having more than 4 probes out gives unaccurate results. once you get that close on the scan results recall one of your probes you should then hit 100% without moving any of your other probes.
edit:so use 5 probes as normal get as close as you can resolution wise and recall center probe.
|
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 03:03:00 -
[25]
If you try to scan everything down with level 1 Astrometrics skill, using an un-bonused ship and plain core probes, you will quickly learn that skill and gear helps!
Now given that skill and gear are fixed, and you have a 99.99% result, what are your options?
* Move the probes around a bit (closer, farther, up, down, etc.) * Try a different number of probes (at least 4) * If you are using a cross pattern (I always do!) try a tetrahedron (has worked for me!)
If you can change your gear:
* Try Sisters probes (affordable!) * Try a Sisters launcher (expensive, but worth it if you scan a lot!) * Try a bonused ship (T1 probing frigates are cheap!) * Try adding gravity capacitor rigs (preferably to a T1 probing bonused frigate) * Try a Covert Ops frigate (preferably with Covert Ops 3 skill and gravity capacitor rigs)
And finally of course you can:
* train more Astrometric Pinpointing and Astrometric Rangefinding
/thread
|
Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 07:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Iaoth
Originally by: Nareg Maxence ..................the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
The amount of BS spewn in these forums is astounding.
Unless, of course, you are simply telling lies for the lols?
Or is it possible that you simply lack the skills to make it work?
Hmmmmmm?
Ok, let me rephrase that. It is non-optimal and will not work on the hardest sites. Happy?
|
Barton Foley
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 08:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: Iaoth
Originally by: Nareg Maxence ..................the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
The amount of BS spewn in these forums is astounding.
Unless, of course, you are simply telling lies for the lols?
Or is it possible that you simply lack the skills to make it work?
Hmmmmmm?
Ok, let me rephrase that. It is non-optimal and will not work on the hardest sites. Happy?
Still wrong.
I have yet to run across a 10/10, but I've gotten everything else in-game using the cross formation. Gravs, ladars, radars, mags, and wormholes. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0, and w-space. I run with four probes, never had the least bit of difficulty.
In all honesty I haven't used the weird triangle formation since the first couple weeks of the new scanning system. Too much bother adjusting them all. I'd argue that using it is in fact sub-optimal in terms of time involved adjusting probes.
|
Alistone Malikite
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 08:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Barton Foley
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: Iaoth
Originally by: Nareg Maxence ..................the scanning video guide from CCP shows the probes positioned in a cross shape. This is very non-optimal and will only work for the easiest sites.
The amount of BS spewn in these forums is astounding.
Unless, of course, you are simply telling lies for the lols?
Or is it possible that you simply lack the skills to make it work?
Hmmmmmm?
Ok, let me rephrase that. It is non-optimal and will not work on the hardest sites. Happy?
Still wrong.
I have yet to run across a 10/10, but I've gotten everything else in-game using the cross formation. Gravs, ladars, radars, mags, and wormholes. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0, and w-space. I run with four probes, never had the least bit of difficulty.
In all honesty I haven't used the weird triangle formation since the first couple weeks of the new scanning system. Too much bother adjusting them all. I'd argue that using it is in fact sub-optimal in terms of time involved adjusting probes.
I'm sure he mean hardest to scan sites, not hardest to run sites...
Plexes/WH are not hard to scan down for me, but I have had small mining sites that I could not get a lock on with 5 (sisters core) probes. On at least one occasion I got a better strength be recalling a probe and running the scan again with just 4 probes, so having more the 4 probes very close together does in fact cause interference. I have also found that it is better to move at least one probe out of the plane to form a pyramid.
The CCP scanning video was very helpful and may be optimal for the purpose of quickly placing and moving your probes to results and lowering the scan radius. (It used to take me 30-40 minutes to scan down a signal - after the video it only took 10 - after learning some more skills it is now usually 2-3 minutes or even less in a covops)
By the time you get down to .25 AU and still don't have a 100% result it may become necessary to use a pyramid to improve your signal strength.
The original advice was offered to help improve signal strength, not as a placement priority to reduce your scan radius. Spamming the thread with "lies" and "you're wrong" doesn't help. Please try to offer your own experience rather than criticizing others'.
|
Niveon
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 11:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Niveon on 02/03/2010 11:10:59 I've had to shuffle a tetrahedron in null on a 10/10 using a cov ops, sisters gear, rigs. Ended up with them overlapping about 2/3 radius at 0.25 before it became 100%. |
Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 12:42:00 -
[30]
A reason why tetrahedron placement is better is that it provides the largest area of overlap while keeping the probes as far apart as possible. This means less risk of getting a dual- or ring-signature, which in turn means less wasted scans and faster pinpointing.
|
|
Baalroshe
Capital Construction Research
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 20:39:00 -
[31]
Hi... I have 4/4/4/4 as my scanning skills run a cov ops with sisters gear and 2 grav cap rigs.... ive lived in 0.0 and done plexes and currently live in a c6 wormhole... ive never come across any sig that i had problems getting 100% on. the tetrahedron is a waste of time... if you need to use the tetrahedron formation your doing it wrong
|
Barton Foley
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 21:32:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Alistone Malikite I'm sure he mean hardest to scan sites, not hardest to run sites...
What a coincidence, so do I!
Cross formation works and is better. Period the end.
|
Grasse
|
Posted - 2010.03.03 02:49:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Madla Mafia
Originally by: Grasse
When you get multiple 99%,, just back all your probes off 1 range setting,, works everytime for me in my short scanning time... generally going from 0.25 back to 0.5 will give you a green light..
Interesting. I'll have to try that next time. I ended up getting a 100% hit eventually, but only after I bought a Heron (sold in local) and fitted the launcher and sisters probes on that ship.
Hey Madia,,
I scanned about 30 different things today, and after practicing with and without grav rigs (different ships),, the backing off a setting thing to 0.5 after you hit solid 99's werk almost all the time for me.. the trick is to get a couple 99% a couple times in a row at 0.25,, then just back off to 0.5.. im very confident in it now..
Also, im still a newb at scanning and stuff but so far for me DIAMOND shaped 4 probes in the sphere werks best....
i probably need to improve this technique, but so far its werking..
|
Kva Plexcha
Gallente Doing You Right
|
Posted - 2010.03.03 05:52:00 -
[34]
All I use is the cross formation, 4 probes, and a Force Recon.
With skills 4/3/3/3, and the right equipment/implants you can scan any site ingame. 10/10, Crystal Quarry, Data Mining, doesnt matter the type.
As long as your base scan strength of the probe in your probe launcher is greater than
82.5
and you have decent scan deviation skills - (I use the 6% implant), you're good to go. The cross works for anything.
The thing that is important to get the absolute best result from using the cross is equal placement, distance and angle, around the sig.
I'm just repeating my earlier post, but its just this simple. I did extensive testing with the force recon and combinations of equipment in order to get it able to scan every site and the 82.5 base scan strength was the magic number for me.
I am curious if anyone has been able to scan the hard sites down with a smaller number.
|
Shandelzare
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 01:11:00 -
[35]
with all this talk about tetrahedron and cross shapes, I was wondering, how feasible is it to use a 7 probe 3-dimensional cross, with 1 probe in the middle, north, west, south, east and then probes directly above and below the middle probe. Would this layout give decent results, or does it give too many ring/duplicate signals, due to interference?
|
Gavin DeVries
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 02:07:00 -
[36]
I've never tried it, but I would be worried that it would give too many possibilities of the game picking the wrong 4 probes. It might speed up the occasions when the main plane of the probes is either above or below the actual site location, because you wouldn't have to use trial and error to determine which, but it might interfere with later pinpointing. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |