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T'Pimp
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Posted - 2010.03.07 11:58:00 -
[1]
Hi... New to eve and LOVING it, with an eye on long term training plans (here to stay baby!!)
Whilst reading these forums I see alot of advice saying that for nullsec solo missioning (pirate faction agent running whilst not in a local corp/allaince) "A Tengu really is your best bet"
I gather the anti-warp bubble thang' is a major bonus here, and the stealthy cloaky pew pew is no doubt handy.
But my question is... are not all the other strategic cruisers able to run the same errmmm ship covert op part?/scripts.
So why do people flat out say:
"null sec lv4/plex? Solo?! You want a Tengu mate..."
and never the Loki or the others....
Would really welcome a nice informed post about the pros and cons and what makes the Tengu so much more the ideal choice.
And whilst I'm sure there are loads of people screaming "OMG you don't need a t3 to so on so on......"
I realy am asking just why the Tengu is rated so highly over the others... Loki for example (I have most points in projectile) ... and not for advice on "use a raven and just watch local and use scannner" etc etc
Thanks YOU!!! Learn me up baby! YEAH!!!
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JeChecke
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Posted - 2010.03.07 12:10:00 -
[2]
You can use all the t3, but for pve'ing, the tengu is the best, with 600+ kine dps at 100+ km and a massive tank. Or this dps with immunity to bubble and to probes
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2010.03.07 12:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jotobar on 07/03/2010 12:45:06 Because it's better than the others (don't you dare changing this ccp, us caldari ***s need this ;p).
They can't do this for example:
http://omploader.org/vM3FuMA
ps. notice that replacing the lol 1.1bil booster with a normal t2 med booster will still be enough for 90% of the plexes I come across (up to 8/10 gurista, there's some escalations like hired gun from gurista fortress where this setup with a medium booster won't work but meh just do the others or do a better setup).
ps2. notice also that long term I wouldn't recomend the caldari route to anyone, rather go amarr if you like pvp in big ships or minmatar if you like pvp in small/medium ships
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T'Pimp
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Posted - 2010.03.07 12:56:00 -
[4]
ye thanks for your informed post
"beacuse it's better"
thanks...
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Mr Reeth
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Posted - 2010.03.07 13:29:00 -
[5]
For running level 4s you need DPS, tank and range. These are things Caldari ships are great at and the Tengu is no exception.
No other T3 ship can spit so much damage so far. Heavy missiles have just way more range than any other medium sized weapon. The other tech 3s would waste a lot of time trying to get into range. It's no fun chasing around mission npcs. And missiles always hit so you don't have to worry too much about those elite frigs holding you down.
And it does it while fielding a tank that is stronger than most battleships. It gets that tank because Caldari have the most mids and least lows. And given that they shield tank it means they can put all damage mods in their lows and all shield mods in their mids. The other T3s have to balance their low slots between damage mods and tank mods.
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triafrenum
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Posted - 2010.03.07 14:06:00 -
[6]
I'll just sum up what everyone is saying. The Tengu is better then the other t3 ships because it has a better tank it has more range it has more dps
This is why everyone is suggesting a Tengu over other t3 ships for null sec missioning/plexing
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Babel
Ma'asei Merkabah Naraka.
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Posted - 2010.03.07 15:42:00 -
[7]
Loki is more fun :) . All generalisations are false - Discuss.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.03.07 16:16:00 -
[8]
It's not only the Tengu. All Caldari ships share this behavior: Tank with med slots + gank improved by free low slots (ofc ^^).
-> Caldari ships don't have to balance tank and gank - which is good for PvE. -> Caldari ships have to balance tank and tackle/ewar - which is bad for PvP.
Btw: some Minmatar ships are quite good shield tanks as well (Cyclone, Sleipnir, Maelstrom). Don't know about the Loki because I've no own experiences but I'm almost sure it can be an awsome PvE boat as well! The Loki don't has the range but should be faster. Also you've nice damage type choice.
What I've learned after crosstraining all races: Minmaxing and FOTM is boring imho. The "best" is what's more fun for you. Every race has it's strength and - more important - has it's own flavor.
-
Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.07 18:26:00 -
[9]
I have flown the proteus and loki in 0.0 a lot. In all these ships the tank slots become very limited , so the racial resists become very important.
One place where the Tengu excells is , you can pick your damage type . And you dont have to share bottom slots with tank AND gank mods.
Proteus has a drone bay which is very valuable if your tackled by 3 frigs in a hard situation.I can get similar damage to the tengu with it , not better , just close.
Loki sucked for the area I was in . It might do better against another rat type .
I really like the idea of the "no ammo Legion" but the rats I shoot have their highest resist to EM , and guess what damage lazers do ?
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T'Pimp
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Posted - 2010.03.07 19:44:00 -
[10]
Thanks. some nice opinions coming in now :)
I can see now why peopel favour the cald for pve what with the way thier slot layouts are filled.
One poster with "Loki is more fun" - but unfortunatly that's all they could manage... I'de liek to hear your opinions why if you pass by this post again ;) as...
"This ship. Yes." leaves me wondering why you think that
Come on Loki pilots! What's great about your ship?
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2010.03.07 23:02:00 -
[11]
Something tells me you didn't click my link yet since we're still debating.
stats in short, ~1000dps, 1200tank, on a freaking cruiser.
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Sariton Xavian
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Posted - 2010.03.08 01:53:00 -
[12]
When I plug the (apparently) same stats in EFT, I come out with the same alpha but only 896 DPS. So it appears I'm seeing ~10% lower rate of fire than your screenie, but can't work out why that be. I've got the missile RoF and HAM damage implants (there is no relevant booster I'm aware of), all skills confirmed at V, the fit can't carry drones, using the same Tech 2 ammo... Is there some environment effect applied or something? |
AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.08 01:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sariton Xavian When I plug the (apparently) same stats in EFT, I come out with the same alpha but only 896 DPS. So it appears I'm seeing ~10% lower rate of fire than your screenie, but can't work out why that be. I've got the missile RoF and HAM damage implants (there is no relevant booster I'm aware of), all skills confirmed at V, the fit can't carry drones, using the same Tech 2 ammo... Is there some environment effect applied or something?
Perhaps implants... ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Evilan Altana
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.08 03:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sariton Xavian When I plug the (apparently) same stats in EFT, I come out with the same alpha but only 896 DPS. So it appears I'm seeing ~10% lower rate of fire than your screenie, but can't work out why that be. I've got the missile RoF and HAM damage implants (there is no relevant booster I'm aware of), all skills confirmed at V, the fit can't carry drones, using the same Tech 2 ammo... Is there some environment effect applied or something?
He doesn't have reload time included for his dps in that screenshot. If you go to preferences and uncheck the box you will have the same dps listed.
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Sariton Xavian
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Posted - 2010.03.08 04:20:00 -
[15]
Spot on, thanks. |
Sfynx
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.08 04:56:00 -
[16]
Yeah those HAM dps figures are nice on paper, but for plexing you are gonna have exactly 0 dps with HAMS in some situations.... like in Gurista Fortress when you get dropped 70km from 3 stasis towers, happy killing Or in Gurista Base where ships spawn 140 km from you, happy flying.
HAMs are usually sufficient for grinding Sanctums all day, but when that gets boring and start doing exploration, you will switch to HML for sure so you spend time killing things instead of running after things. HML isn't that much dps sacrifice anyways, for being able to shoot everything you can target lock.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.08 08:18:00 -
[17]
The original post was all about Null Sec. So posting fits without a cloak and nullifier subsystem dont really apply do they ?
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T'Pimp
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Posted - 2010.03.08 10:04:00 -
[18]
Quote: The original post was all about Null Sec. So posting fits without a cloak and nullifier subsystem dont really apply do they ?
Correct
Which is why I kinda ignored his "Because it's better than the others" repliy... cause he kinda ignored my original question.
...is he what people refer to as an EFT Warrior?
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jotobar on 08/03/2010 11:23:51
Originally by: Sfynx Yeah those HAM dps figures are nice on paper, but for plexing you are gonna have exactly 0 dps with HAMS in some situations.... like in Gurista Fortress when you get dropped 70km from 3 stasis towers, happy killing Or in Gurista Base where ships spawn 140 km from you, happy flying.
Hello fellow branch grinder, the two examples you mentioned are the only ones that applies though and base isn't really worth doing in any case, but yea, you obviously switch in heavy missiles in those cases. Another setup I dubbed prober+doer is so weird it includes 1 heavy missiles launcher and the rest ham due to pgrid issues (implant shares cpu slot which I need for better dread tank but I disgress), in any case, a bonus of it in any case is that it can blow up fortress weak stasis towers. It can also break some tanks of deadspace bosses that a heavy missile setup wouldn't (like Haruo Wako from gurista military complex).
Originally by: RavenPaine The original post was all about Null Sec. So posting fits without a cloak and nullifier subsystem dont really apply do they ?
That will heavily depend on the specific region, if you're in npc 0.0 for instance you're probably right but personaly I haven't equiped either subsystems ever in pve. In my case it's more like: do plex, once in 20 plexes when a neut enters local tell intel and warp between safespots for 2min before the cavalary arive or scare him off yourself.
Originally by: T'Pimp ...is he what people refer to as an EFT Warrior?
I've flown this baby for the last 2 weeks and made around 6bil from it so far, the only thing fantasy fit about it is the 1.1bil pithi shield booster which I will fit the second it drops, replace it with any other medium booster meanwhile, you asked for a benchmark of the tengu though so I gave you one, also replace the +5% implants with 3% implants if you tend to get podded..
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Alice Teal
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: T'Pimp
Quote: The original post was all about Null Sec. So posting fits without a cloak and nullifier subsystem dont really apply do they ?
Correct
Which is why I kinda ignored his "Because it's better than the others" repliy... cause he kinda ignored my original question.
...is he what people refer to as an EFT Warrior?
t'pimp, for someone who's getting reasonable answers to his nooby question, you're being an ungrateful jerk. if that guy is an 'eft warrior' [btw, only really works in pvp context b/c in pve, eft stats really are the bread and butter -- and thus you betray your shocking newness to eve], than you're a 'whining forum noob.'
if you weren't such a petulant brat, someone might explain to you why you'll pretty much never see a plexing tengu in the south, and that the reason people laud the tengu is that most plexers in this forum live in the north and west, but apparently since you're entitled to only the best information instantly, i'll withhold all the good info i'd normally give out. [but here's a hint so you don't have to post another whinging thread: eve-search.com]
i suspect you're wondering which ship to train up for plexing. i suspect you also don't have enough info [or eve know-how] to get a good answer.
good day.
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T'Pimp
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:53:00 -
[21]
Edited by: T''Pimp on 08/03/2010 11:55:38 righto... well you certainly got worked up there over a little poke I made at someones post...
Jotobar's alt?
EASY TIGER!!! just kiddin' ...or I am?!
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: T'Pimp just kiddin' ...or I am?!
At this point I don't think anyone cares anymore. Get a drone legion with cloak and interdiction nulifier, make sure to skill every subsystem to lvl5 before testing how it performs.
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T'Pimp
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:12:00 -
[23]
Owww are you trying to send me up the wrong path to the naughty step.
Anyway - Thanks all, I learnt some stuffs, but seems I've caused irrevocable offence and thus had super dupper top secret info withheld from me about north and south and even west.
Bummer.
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Alice Teal
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: T'Pimp Edited by: T''Pimp on 08/03/2010 11:55:38 righto... well you certainly got worked up there over a little poke I made at someones post...
Jotobar's alt?
EASY TIGER!!! just kiddin' ...or I am?!
ok then. :P good reply. if you want to plex, you'll have to figure out where before deciding on a ship. in guristas and serp space, for instance, you really can't beat the ishtar for cost/versatility/afkness.
tengu is fun...but not after the first fifty times you've run a given plex. at that point, you just want to set it up, do other things [watch tv shows], and check local now and again. with perfect scanning skills and equipment, the ishtar can scan every plex. when you start out, even with crap skills you'll be able to scan every plex you should be running [aka, not the maze].
sacrilege/tengu are good for angels [angels are the most labor-intensive plexes, hence the cost of gist boosters].
here's the real bit of advice; after you join a 0.0 corp, ask around. they will know exactly what works [each person will have a diff way of doing it though].
gl.
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