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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.03.08 10:51:00 -
[1]
It really sucks when tanking your ship opposite of the bonuses it gets is a hell of a lot more effective than what it should be.
/me pines away for the day when Gallente gets fixed.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.08 10:58:00 -
[2]
Yeah they need to fix them and give them a shield recharge bonus. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:01:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:03:05 Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:02:00 Yes.
The gallente ships are unlogic.
They have short range guns AND are slow They have cap use guns and active tanking bonuses They have a very short optimal range and bonus to optimal range (1km x 100% = 2km) The Myrm is a drone boat but have a ridiculous bandwith (the vexor/cruiser have 75mb, so a BC should have 100mb) The vexor / ishtar can barely fit 3 crappy guns but still have a gun bonus
Anyway, some gal ships are very wise
These are - The mega: perfect bonuses! perfect slot layout, perfect drone bay. The navy mega is even smarter (not just better stats) - The domi: gun fitting able = perfect bonus ! good adaptative slot layout. Well i guess ccp will nerf 'em
The other ships, well, TBH, i will never fly them ! For exemple, don't tell me the ishtar is great because as a drone boat, I really prefer the CURSE. Don't tell me the Hyp is... no you can't telle anything about the hyp =).
So, for me, there is only 2 ships in the Gal line. It is true, i am very critic but i want the BEST nothing less.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:11:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Pottsey Yeah they need to fix them and give them a shield recharge bonus.
I see what you did here. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Toroidal Bum-Donuts
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:25:00 -
[5]
i thought gallente ships had a shield recharge bonus built in, or was i dreaming :P
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Anne Sincerity
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:03:05 Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:02:00
- The mega: perfect bonuses! perfect slot layout, perfect drone bay. The navy mega is even smarter (not just better stats) - The domi: gun fitting able = perfect bonus ! good adaptative slot layout. Well i guess ccp will nerf 'em .
lol , man don't give CCP ideeas! i'm quite looking forward to getting t2 large blasters for my mega
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:03:05 Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:02:00 Yes.
The gallente ships are unlogic.
They have short range guns AND are slow They have cap use guns and active tanking bonuses They have a very short optimal range and bonus to optimal range (1km x 100% = 2km) The Myrm is a drone boat but have a ridiculous bandwith (the vexor/cruiser have 75mb, so a BC should have 100mb) The vexor / ishtar can barely fit 3 crappy guns but still have a gun bonus
Anyway, some gal ships are very wise
These are - The mega: perfect bonuses! perfect slot layout, perfect drone bay. The navy mega is even smarter (not just better stats) - The domi: gun fitting able = perfect bonus ! good adaptative slot layout. Well i guess ccp will nerf 'em
The other ships, well, TBH, i will never fly them ! For exemple, don't tell me the ishtar is great because as a drone boat, I really prefer the CURSE. Don't tell me the Hyp is... no you can't telle anything about the hyp =).
So, for me, there is only 2 ships in the Gal line. It is true, i am very critic but i want the BEST nothing less.
CCP: Listen to this man. This is exactly the problem with Gallente.
I trained for the Astarte, bought one, flew it in PVP for a couple of days and then said "SCREW this crap" and sold it.
If you fit a proper armor tank, then you're slower than a sloth in a barrel of honey, but you have to get close for your guns to do decent damage, oh and webs were nerfed so even if you do get close, then you can't reliably hold them in place. So now you're running your MWD to stay in gun range, running your repper to keep from sploding and praying you have enough cap left when you do get in range to still be able to fire your weapons, which you probably won't considering everyone and their grandmother fits a rack of Neuts these days.
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SuperNova221
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:13:00 -
[8]
either Gallente need speed similar to that of Minmatar ships to compensate for their range and damage, or extra damage to compensate for the lack of speed and range. Extra range to compensate for speed and damage isn't acceptable, extra falloff would mean they would be similar to AC, extra optimal means they'll be like Pulse lasers. Blasters are a different type of gun and hsould be unique, give a bit of diversity in the game. Two races armour tanking with similar weapons isn't diverse.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.03.09 21:49:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sunset Rogue on 09/03/2010 21:54:14
Originally by: SuperNova221 either Gallente need speed similar to that of Minmatar ships to compensate for their range and damage, or extra damage to compensate for the lack of speed and range. Extra range to compensate for speed and damage isn't acceptable, extra falloff would mean they would be similar to AC, extra optimal means they'll be like Pulse lasers. Blasters are a different type of gun and hsould be unique, give a bit of diversity in the game. Two races armour tanking with similar weapons isn't diverse.
This.
Having the shortest range weapons on slow, fat ships is not a great idea. I was thinking something (maybe a racial script? or a racial overheat ability for mwd on gallente ships?) to increase speed but decrease agility so that gallente ships can close to target to apply damage. (If it does not have an agility penalty then gallente will just be minmatar 2.0 and that will pave the way for another "nano nerf")
What ccp SHOULD have done would be to make blasters + shields. (Example: LSE Brutix) Shield tanks do not have speed penalties like armor and can more easily close range to apply short-range weapons to intended target.
Armor has heavy penalties to speed and seems better suited for drones (which move independently from the ship) and missiles (which generally have much more range than the other weapon systems) But I guess it is too late to redesign two whole races
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Taja Calaren
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod They have a very short optimal range and bonus to optimal range (1km x 100% = 2km) The Myrm is a drone boat but have a ridiculous bandwith (the vexor/cruiser have 75mb, so a BC should have 100mb) The vexor / ishtar can barely fit 3 crappy guns but still have a gun bonus
As much as i can understand your problems with cap and speed, this three are... well... open for debate. Gallente have optimal range bonus and extremely long optimal range... yes, railguns DO exist. Compared to other BCs wich have drone bandwidth between 25mb and 40mb (with the somewath op Harbinger as an exception) the Myrmidons bandwith isnt that ridiculous. And as for the gun bonus on ishtar/vexor... i can only say minmatar split weapon systems!
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Umega
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Umega on 09/03/2010 22:43:59 And while everyone is at it.. ignore the thought of how much easier it is to dual-prop gally ships, make capacitor happier, more ewar options, and tracking computers that have highly effective bonus scripts that may be attached cause of their open mid slots.
Looks like another thread with one of those hidden whines for wanting a race or ship that does absolutely everything well.
It has been addressed repeatedly.. armor/shield tanks have their own pros/cons. Don't like one, train for something else. Not wanting to is your own lazy fault as you cry to the company you Freely give your money to.
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Onin Ra
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Taja Calaren
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod They have a very short optimal range and bonus to optimal range (1km x 100% = 2km) The Myrm is a drone boat but have a ridiculous bandwith (the vexor/cruiser have 75mb, so a BC should have 100mb) The vexor / ishtar can barely fit 3 crappy guns but still have a gun bonus
As much as i can understand your problems with cap and speed, this three are... well... open for debate. Gallente have optimal range bonus and extremely long optimal range... yes, railguns DO exist. Compared to other BCs wich have drone bandwidth between 25mb and 40mb (with the somewath op Harbinger as an exception) the Myrmidons bandwith isnt that ridiculous. And as for the gun bonus on ishtar/vexor... i can only say minmatar split weapon systems!
You are comparing a what suposed to be a DRONE boat vs Gun boats. Myrm doesn't have gun bonuses like hurricane, harby or drake. --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pottsey Yeah they need to fix them and give them a second damage bonus.
Fixed
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.03.09 23:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pottsey Yeah they need to fix them and give them a shield recharge bonus.
Dood... just... no.
I know you love your passive PVE shield tanks, but dood, stay away from my PVP armor tanking plz. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.03.09 23:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Umega Edited by: Umega on 09/03/2010 22:43:59 It has been addressed repeatedly.. armor/shield tanks have their own pros/cons. Don't like one, train for something else. Not wanting to is your own lazy fault as you cry to the company you Freely give your money to.
Following that logic, can CCP nerf back lasers into crap (before my time), nerf projectile/Minmatar Tech 1 ships to crap, and debuff the pirate faction ships into crappy hangar trophies?
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Taja Calaren
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Posted - 2010.03.09 23:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Onin Ra
Originally by: Taja Calaren
As much as i can understand your problems with cap and speed, this three are... well... open for debate. Gallente have optimal range bonus and extremely long optimal range... yes, railguns DO exist. Compared to other BCs wich have drone bandwidth between 25mb and 40mb (with the somewath op Harbinger as an exception) the Myrmidons bandwith isnt that ridiculous. And as for the gun bonus on ishtar/vexor... i can only say minmatar split weapon systems!
You are comparing a what suposed to be a DRONE boat vs Gun boats. Myrm doesn't have gun bonuses like hurricane, harby or drake.
Hm wait... Gun boats have gun bonus but no drone bonus and small dronebay Droneboat has no gun bonus but drone bonus and larger bandwith/dronebay.... ah, wait, what are these 6 turret hardpoints doing up there?
Just that you dont have a gun bonus doesnt mean you cant fit them. As all the other ships out there are using drones too without having them bonused.
I know there are some gallente ships with problems out there, but bringing up the myrmidon is amongst the most stupid things you could do.
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Umega
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Posted - 2010.03.10 00:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aqriue
Originally by: Umega Edited by: Umega on 09/03/2010 22:43:59 It has been addressed repeatedly.. armor/shield tanks have their own pros/cons. Don't like one, train for something else. Not wanting to is your own lazy fault as you cry to the company you Freely give your money to.
Following that logic, can CCP nerf back lasers into crap (before my time), nerf projectile/Minmatar Tech 1 ships to crap, and debuff the pirate faction ships into crappy hangar trophies?
I'm not sure you understand what 'logic' is. Hybrids weapons need some sort of change that still keeps with diversity, sure. That's beside the point of changing everything about Gallente. The point of logic in the sentence is, if you don't like it.. why are you paying to play a Game when you have the option to train something else that does exactly what you are looking for. Otherwise people are really just whining for the perfectly 'broken' ship, and instead of much needed buffs occuring in areas.. nerfs are the end result in other areas. Happens time n again.. more whining creates more nerfs than buffs.
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Onin Ra
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.03.10 02:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Taja Calaren
Originally by: Onin Ra
Originally by: Taja Calaren
As much as i can understand your problems with cap and speed, this three are... well... open for debate. Gallente have optimal range bonus and extremely long optimal range... yes, railguns DO exist. Compared to other BCs wich have drone bandwidth between 25mb and 40mb (with the somewath op Harbinger as an exception) the Myrmidons bandwith isnt that ridiculous. And as for the gun bonus on ishtar/vexor... i can only say minmatar split weapon systems!
You are comparing a what suposed to be a DRONE boat vs Gun boats. Myrm doesn't have gun bonuses like hurricane, harby or drake.
Hm wait... Gun boats have gun bonus but no drone bonus and small dronebay Droneboat has no gun bonus but drone bonus and larger bandwith/dronebay.... ah, wait, what are these 6 turret hardpoints doing up there?
Just that you dont have a gun bonus doesnt mean you cant fit them. As all the other ships out there are using drones too without having them bonused.
I know there are some gallente ships with problems out there, but bringing up the myrmidon is amongst the most stupid things you could do.
I didn't bring it up, but you compared its drone bay to gun boats, saying how others are having much less drones. 75m bandwith on a supposedly drone boat is not something to write your mum about. Vexor has 75m. Its a cruiser. Would you like to fly a harbi with only 5 guns ? I am not saying that myrm is ****, oh wait, it is ****. I apologize. --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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Cavazos
Caldari 992nd HellFire Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.10 04:07:00 -
[19]
tbh astarte is agreat ship....just use it right...and a hyperion can be fit for active shield tank active armor tank or armor buffer all of which ive tried and had great results. tbh i think gallente ships r perfect....close range face melting dps.....H*ll i hit ships at 32km with my 8x neutron blaster IIs on my armor buffer hyperion w/ antimatter and did around 650-1100 volleys. gallente is knowing for being slow but powerful....minmatar are known for being fast agile tacklers that have decent dps aswell as tanks...amarr r known for being cap monsters while having for the most part great dps and very reasonable tanks.....idk wat to say about caldari besides its kind of like a mix of gallente and minmatar =/.....all great things tho
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Taja Calaren
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Posted - 2010.03.10 11:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Onin Ra I didn't bring it up, but you compared its drone bay to gun boats, saying how others are having much less drones. 75m bandwith on a supposedly drone boat is not something to write your mum about. Vexor has 75m. Its a cruiser. Would you like to fly a harbi with only 5 guns ? I am not saying that myrm is ****, oh wait, it is ****. I apologize.
So what? I compared the Myrmidon to other BCs, because thats what it should compete with. It still has 6 turret hardpoints (same as hurricane btw) so maybe its not a pure droneboat, it can fit 6 guns, just hasnt a bonus for them (and after people complaining about the vexor/ishtars gun bonus i cant see something bad in it). Its dps potential is well within that of other BCs and it also has the potential for a great tank.
So if you think it has no advantage over the vexor (and i wouldn't call 2 lows, 2 meds, 50m¦ dronebay and a tank bonus nothing) than maybe thats a problem with the vexor, not the myrmidon.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.10 13:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Taja Calaren
Originally by: Onin Ra I didn't bring it up, but you compared its drone bay to gun boats, saying how others are having much less drones. 75m bandwith on a supposedly drone boat is not something to write your mum about. Vexor has 75m. Its a cruiser. Would you like to fly a harbi with only 5 guns ? I am not saying that myrm is ****, oh wait, it is ****. I apologize.
So what? I compared the Myrmidon to other BCs, because thats what it should compete with. It still has 6 turret hardpoints (same as hurricane btw) so maybe its not a pure droneboat, it can fit 6 guns, just hasnt a bonus for them (and after people complaining about the vexor/ishtars gun bonus i cant see something bad in it). Its dps potential is well within that of other BCs and it also has the potential for a great tank.
So if you think it has no advantage over the vexor (and i wouldn't call 2 lows, 2 meds, 50m¦ dronebay and a tank bonus nothing) than maybe thats a problem with the vexor, not the myrmidon.
:) Still hybrid guns are crap those needs a boost ,then we could look at what gallente ships lack.
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Taja Calaren
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Posted - 2010.03.10 13:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Still hybrid guns are crap those needs a boost ,then we could look at what gallente ships lack.
I disagree with that, working on a longer post about it, but it isnt ready yet...
To cut it short: i think its more an ammo problem than a gun problem, a t2 ammo problem to be precise. Scorch is to good and null is, well, crappy, when used on their intended guns.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.10 17:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Marlona Sky It really sucks when tanking your ship opposite of the bonuses it gets is a hell of a lot more effective than what it should be.
/me pines away for the day when Gallente gets fixed.
/me looks at armour-tanked Raven fits for BS RR. /me pines away for the day when shield transfer CPU requirements get fixed.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.03.10 18:02:00 -
[24]
I think the main reason for the Gallente decline is accumulative indecisive changes.
Correct me if i'm wrong, because my memory is getting a bit clouded but: Throughout the nano-era Gallente ships recieved a number of smaller nerfs but continued to be very powerful. CCP changed damps, they changed the speed and agility and i have a slight recollection of them nerfing Blasters. The Gallente ships remained powerful in the face of that though. Nano Ishtars were awesome, Nano Deimos were not infrequent and you even had Nano Domis floating about while Megas kept on performing as close range face molesters.
When the nano nerf finally hit and the things that were supposed to be changed to begin with finally got changed (like how the old webs were just too powerful in combination with the overall style of the race), the Gallente had accumulated a set of failed minor adaptions that finally began to take root. With nano they kept being fast enough thanks to lowslots, the webs kept being powerful enough on their own to keep your blasters on a target etc. With that gone, the Hybrid platforms fairly quickly began losing ground while the Drone platforms adapted okay-ish to the new role of 'nano' (ie., speed + kiting = range tanking).
Overall though, im not so sure if there's a fully emcompassing "Gallente problem" to deal with.
Their Frigates are not bad, their Cruisers are not bad, their BC are not bad and their BS are not bad.
Their Ceptors are not bad, their AF are not bad, their HACs are admittedly not doing too well and their Recons have had some issues (but are on the rise in popularity now with the ECM nerf). Their Command ships are pretty bad, but that ties back to trembling, reverting changes to drones when the Eos was super-performing and CCP couldn't settle for a good answer at first. Today, the Eos could probably be reverted back to a more drone-based ship without causing problems. Their T3 is pretty good. EAS are more or less bad for all races, Dictors generally fill the same choice role (and whatever one is better than the other is usually covered enough where the price difference exceed the role; ie., Sabre). So they don't really count. Hictors follow suit, they're fairly equal. Same with Black Ops, where the Sin is definately not the worst - but their individual performance quite irrelevant since you get one to either do bridges or nisched gangs.
They could do with a bit of a touch-up on their HACs and CS (bonuses), and Hybrids need changing, but beyond that they don't compare that poorly. If you're considering that Amarr and Minmatar have had their recent tweaks, i wouldn't say that Gallente overall is behind Caldari by any stretch (more likely the other way around to be honest; with Gallente Cruisers, Ceptors, AF and HACs performing better while Caldari have the Drake to rely on, and to some degree ECM) and that future changes to Hybrids and tech II Cruisers may be able to deal with that nicely (for both races). The overall current balance (and the one that has existed quite steadily since the nano nerf) is also one of the best balances i've seen in the game. It's definately not more unfair now than before.
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Torpir Lee
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.03.10 18:19:00 -
[25]
I thought part of the deal with Gallente ships is facemelting stuff close range and being able to tank the low dps of kiting long range ships, and sometimes being able to scare them off too with drones.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.10 18:46:00 -
[26]
Anyone have any idea as to how hybrids might be fixed, ie. anyone seen a CCP comment on the subject yet?. Without knowing that titbit, trying to come up with balance for the ships meant to use them is very much a waste of time.
Something that will work regardless of what happens to hybrids (I think) is to increase base speeds by a good amount but make them less agile than mammoths frozen in the tundra .. freight trains with a world of hurt on the prow.
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