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ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.10 14:31:00 - [31] Edited by: ChipMo on 10/03/2010 14:49:53 Originally by: Velonei Vinnitsa ..and thier anarchist friends the Star Fraction here at war as usual.They both have as policy NRDS and as far as we have seen they try to enforce it... We do not enforce our standards on anyone else. I would encourage other pilots to take up the NRDS way of life as it is beneficial all round however I would never demand it. At this moment in time neither AAA nor Atlas are our allies, we are in fact red to both entities, however our weapons are currently trained in the same direction so I can understand how it may appear this way. Edit: There seems to be a few misconceptions about the nature of Anarchy in this thread, first and foremost Anarchy is not freedom without consequence your actions will create reactions, if you kill on a whim you will more than likely be killed yourself later down the line. Second, Anarchy cannot create?!? what non-sense, Anarchy is not a rule that says you must always do everything alone, by its very nature it avoids rules and yet many people seem to presume this rule upon Anarchist nature. Well, it is false. Anarchists are free to come together for the common good as and when they see fit. In this nature entities like the Star Fraction were born from individual anarchists. And look at what we have created! Space is dangerous, Space is hard, we can work as a community to improve it or provide some level of common security but it is up to local groups to do it. The great law and order of CVA is a lie. It is a lie propagated to encourage people to sacrifice their personal sovereignty and conform with their desires. For example: [ 2010.02.09 19:37:20 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Y9-MDG Local Channel [ 2010.02.09 19:46:29 ] TatooHead > hey there o/ [ 2010.02.09 19:47:31 ] dillonhunt > under atack [ 2010.02.09 19:47:47 ] TatooHead > die quietly [ 2010.02.09 19:47:51 ] TatooHead > you were warned [ 2010.02.09 19:48:00 ] dillonhunt > lol [ 2010.02.09 19:48:15 ] redDuce > sf knows how cold blooded mes is [ 2010.02.09 19:48:23 ] redDuce > tatoohead Tongue [ 2010.02.09 19:48:49 ] dillonhunt > ok off to darts [ 2010.02.09 19:49:50 ] Toma > gl [ 2010.02.09 19:51:45 ] EVE System > Channel changed to TU-O0T Local Channel There is no police force or law and order in Providance, residents are left to burn in their ignorance. In an Anarchy, individuals arrange their own security. Yes it may be a little more effort, but at least it is real* security rather than the 'if we feel like it / fly by night' style offered by the CVA.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 14:45:00 - [32] We're not going to adapt our ROE to suit useless pilots who want a 'Sansha hunt in Providence for free' card. Don't like it? Keep out of Providence then. Our ROE is for us to decide. We're fine with it. If you're not - too bad. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.03.10 15:16:00 - [33] Originally by: Kommander Keen Time to realize how things are working nowadays. Your NRDS is in no way better than NBSI, because you don't care about the diplomatic hassles required to maintain a region wide NRDS policy. I get shot by a neutral in "your" area, nobody cares. I get shot by a neutral in CVA territory, next time the aggressor is red to me. Not to mention being blue with UK & Friends will never happen. Why oh why i am talking to my hand again, btw? Actually, the situation is even worse. If you defend yourself against a neutral (say roaming -A- pilot), UK will consider you a hostile, shoot you and might even set you to red because you were shooting at a (to them) blue pilot. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
mrmooo Caldari Pentag Blade Tread Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.10 15:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Borza Slavak Originally by: mrmooo NRDS will not apply to any space that UK have sov over as they cannot enforce it against their NBSI freinds. I don't think you understand what NRDS is. You don't enforce it on others, you operate it yourself. I was making your point for you let me make it clear-CVA operate NRDS space and try to enforce it -UK operate NRDS but dont enforce it against their NBSI freinds Result is UK space is for all intent and purpose NBSI What dont I understand ?
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 15:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Merdaneth Actually, the situation is even worse. If you defend yourself against a neutral (say roaming -A- pilot), UK will consider you a hostile, shoot you and might even set you to red because you were shooting at a (to them) blue pilot. Misinformation. Here's an explanation of NRDS for you, from our alliance leadership. Originally by: Sapphrine No. U'K don't set people red just because they fired on an ally. Blue on Blue - do nothing Blue on Neut (NBSI) - support blue Blue on Neut (NRDS) - do nothing Neut on Neut (NRDS) - do nothing Neut on Neut (NBSI) - do whatever Neut on Red (NRDS) - kill red Neut on Red (NBSI) - do whatever Red on Red - do whatever
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.10 15:55:00 - [36] Originally by: mrmooo I was making your point for you let me make it clear-CVA operate NRDS space and try to enforce it -UK operate NRDS but dont enforce it against their NBSI freinds For the first point. Stop trying to "make points for other people". Really. If you have an opinion in the discussion then make your own point. Constantly trying to reinterpret the words of others simply makes you look dishonest. CVA used the term NRDS as a cover for their standings enclosurist regime in Providence. They decided who was red and who wasn't and everyone needed to follow their standings regime or risk being set red and fired upon by those weaker entities that the CVA could bully. Thats fact. That is also how 99% of 0.0 works with the only difference being that most standings regimes use blue as the carrot rather than red as the stick. In actuality there was very little room for genuine neutrality in CVA controlled Providence. The first time an enemy of the CVA would come in local the enforcers would be leaning on "neutrals" declaring people "pirates" and "hostiles" and standings would be set ensuring that the CVA enemies became the enemies of "everyone" and the standings regime marched on. Second point. NRDS means Not Red Don't Shoot. It is an organisational ROE (Rule of Engagement) and thats it. Don't try to enthuse it with a higher principle than that. NRDS does not make you either a good or a bad pilot neccessarily. The reason for the standings setting in the first place has more to do with that. A Pirate/psychopath/kidnapper/lunatic could simply set everyone in their current system -10 on the standings list and still be definitively NRDS in the factual usage of the term. You claiming that CVA had a higher purpose in "enforcing NRDS" (on others) is simply illustrating the process of their standings enclosurist regime. Just like an NBSI 0.0 territorialist will project influence by promoting its own "Blue List" so did the CVA by promoting its "Red List" - this is simply how large dominant organizations enlarge and protect themselves. But ultimately NRDS is personal to the organization practising it. Star Fraction is NRDS, but the question you should ask is how do you get onto the SF red list. Simple I answer. You attack one of our ships. How do you stay off the SF red list. Simple, don't attack our ships. What if we attack one of the SF allies in theatre? Thats your business (and theirs). See? Its about respecting the independence and individuality of other organizations. We don't consider ourselves a paternal imperialist power that should be telling you what you should be doing and who should be set red. We aren't going to have people telling lies about other people being "pirates" to better control the masses. You need to get your own diplomats busy, do your own deals and take responsibility for your own actions. So saying that Ushra'khan isn't "true NRDS" because they won't enforce their standings list on others is the height of nonsense. NRDS is simply an engagement methodology - what you should be asking is whether Ushra'khan will promote freespace ethos across providence and allow neutrals to dock at the liberated outposts. If the answer to that is "yes" then you have your answer. You have freespace if you have courage to take responsibility for your own actions and step out from under the paternalist shadow of a dominant slaver landowner telling you how to think. Quote: Result is UK space is for all intent and purpose NBSI What dont I understand ? If Ushra'khan operate NRDS Rules of Engagement they are NRDS. It doesn't matter what other entities do because your relations between them and yourselves is your lookout. Freedom is sometimes terrifying. Freedom means you need to think for yourselves. Freedom means you take responsibility and solve your own problems. Freedom means you must fight to be free. There is a reason some prisoners released from jail cower away from the light. It is scary. True Knowledge
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.10 16:58:00 - [37] Edited by: Garreck on 10/03/2010 16:58:54 Not Red, Don't Shoot is a very base-level rule of engagement. The various applications of it from Star Fraction to Ushra'Khan to CVA are hardly comparable on most levels beyond the most basic...well...not red, don't shoot concept. That said, it is quite clear that since the Providence Holders stood up and said "we will not be -A-'s vegetable garden," -A- is installing a gardener they can rely upon...Ushra'Khan. U'K can run their application of NRDS...which simply involves not shooting reds, remember...and claim that Providence remains NRDS after the dust has settled. Those who misunderstand precisely what that means will come in to be farmed from the garden without interference from Ushra'Khan. U'K keeps their claim to rightness and freedom and -A- have their garden. I think it goes without saying that the burgeoning Providence economy will not return, though it'll be interesting to see if U'K show any interest in proving that prognostication incorrect.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 17:13:00 - [38] Edited by: Butter Dog on 10/03/2010 17:13:57 Garreck, I'm sorry you feel that you were being farmed like vegetables. Perhaps this has more to do with the quality of your holders, than anything else. Rest assured we would expect 'New Providence' residents to not collapse with fright at the prospect of a roaming gang within a 15 jump radius, and be able to adapt intelligently to threats - something by your own admission that the CVA led order never achieved. If you provided a vegetable garden, who's fault it that but your own? ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Chav Queen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.10 17:35:00 - [39] Butter dog you sum up UK quite well, pure garbage. You ride on the coat tails of what could be the single most powerful alliance in EVE and then try and ridicule people for not fighting? You over estamate yourselves and your importance in the campaign by a huge margin. Now back too the NRDS debate. Untill you have witnessed Providence from the side of law and order you will never understand what a wonderful place it was. I had the pleasure of a couple of visits and was amazed to see so many people out and about waving to each other in local and minding their own business. It was a place where new pilots could safely enter 00 and get thier first taste of the great beyond. Untill you have seen it first hand, it really is hard to believe that somthing like that could ever work in 00. The fact it did is a great credit too CVA and all the other corps/alliances who made it possible.
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.10 18:49:00 - [40] *ChipMo laughs I think you need to take off those rose tinted spectacles Ms Chav, and take a deep breath of reality. heh, honestly some peoples ignorance astounds me at times.
Pimpertron	Posted - 2010.03.10 19:20:00 - [41] Edited by: Pimpertron on 10/03/2010 19:20:51
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 19:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Chav Queen You ride on the coat tails of what could be the single most powerful alliance in EVE and then try and ridicule people for not fighting? You over estamate yourselves and your importance in the campaign by a huge margin. I publically challenge you to provide a shred of evidence that we claimed we did this alone, or that without AAA it would have been possible. The opposite is true, and if you read our official Galnet trasmission about the recapture of Unity Station, you will see clearly how we express our gratitude to AAA for leading this conflict. Without them, none of this would have been possible. Of course, you probably think that UK alone being unable to remove an 8000 man powerbloc is evidence of our ineptitude. Sane minds might beg to differ. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Jakiin Khanid Provincial Vanguard	Posted - 2010.03.10 19:34:00 - [43] U'K is 'NRDS' in that they're NBSI in their war zones and the zones they call home, but NRDS everywhere else. Let's assume that they decide to change to pure NRDS should they actually take control of providence (Which means both CVA is defeated and -A- gives them sovereignty over the space). Providence will not be NRDS, U'K will be NRDS. -A- will still be allowed to operate under NBSI in U'K space because U'K aren't willing to sacrifice their massive powerhouse friends over differing ROEs. With CVA and the Holders, Providence itself is NRDS to such an extent as can be enforced. Under anyone else fighting for it right now, Providence will be NBSI. That is all that a neutral pilot operating in Providence needs to know, the rest is politics which don't actually affect them. * Jakiin Torash Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer' Uncle Jak wants YOU to join the Khanid Provincial Vanguard!
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 19:47:00 - [44] The number of clairvoyants in this thread is spectacular. Once everyone's finished predicting the outcomes the rumoured plans for providence post-CVA (assuming their fall, which the psychics seem to be assuring us of) could I get some long-term market predictions?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.10 19:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Butter Dog Garreck, I'm sorry you feel that you were being farmed like vegetables. Originally by: Butter Dog we would expect 'New Providence' residents to not collapse with fright at the prospect of a roaming gang within a 15 jump radius, and be able to adapt intelligently to threats - something by your own admission that the CVA led order never achieved You're making stuff up again, Butters. I didn't say any of the above.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 20:00:00 - [46] Originally by: Garreck That said, it is quite clear that since the Providence Holders stood up and said "we will not be -A-'s vegetable garden," Why, in that case, did you claim that if you made a territorial non-aggression pact with AAA, that you would be like a vegetable garden farmed for kills? Surely it is up to you to prevent those kills. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
dibblebill Beyond Our Sins Redneck Rage	Posted - 2010.03.10 20:01:00 - [47] Edited by: dibblebill on 10/03/2010 20:02:39 I've read this entire thread. I was very amused. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gist of it is, if one ignores the question of slavery, Providence is now a "Only the strong may use it" area? Its also not a unique region in 0.0. Great Wildlands is another region that individuals are working hard to open to neutral pilots. Its only the most famous. SPLUD
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.10 20:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Butter Dog Why, in that case, did you claim that if you made a territorial non-aggression pact with AAA, that you would be like a vegetable garden farmed for kills? I did not claim we would be like a vegetable garden, Butters, I merely used the vegetable garden reference used by -A- themselves. You know this already, of course, because without my directly referencing any pact offer, you have already made the connection. Your misrepresentation and line of questioning is terribly transparent. You got one bit right: we indeed took preventing kills very seriously; through policy, through awareness, and through direct military intervention. We were quite good at it. We're definitely not so effective against the might of -A-'s capital fleet.
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.10 22:53:00 - [49] Originally by: Garreck U'K can run their application of NRDS...which simply involves not shooting reds, remember...and claim that Providence remains NRDS after the dust has settled. Just as a point of order in what has generated into another pretty worthless thread - we have not made and likely will not make any such claim Garreck. People need stop looking at this in such black and white terms. As an example - a possibilty if you will - U'K hold G-5EN2, we switch to NRDS in Providence and open our stations to neutrals. This a) allows neutrals a gateway into Provi, b) somewhere to dock, c) more places to go deeper in Provi where they can dock. Of course those neutrals will have to watch for being shot up by any number of NBSI practicing pilots, or their own reds, but whats new? And who knows what else may happen, what other alliances may see the benefit of opening a station or 2 to neutrals, even taking on a ROE that allows those neutrals to travel their space un-aggressed? I'm sure Star Fraction would let neutrals dock, should they take a station, and I know neutrals can dock in Y-M at this very moment. The situation is not black and white, not simply all NRDS or all NBSI and certainly not untenable for neutrals with smarts.
Xiro Taunt	Posted - 2010.03.11 01:11:00 - [50] Is G-5 open to nuetrals? Is 9uy open to nuetrals? 9fob? R3? Any 'nuetrals' tried Y-MP? I suppose I should waste a ship and try, eh?
Jakiin Khanid Provincial Vanguard	Posted - 2010.03.11 01:27:00 - [51] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Of course those neutrals will have to watch for being shot up by any number of NBSI practicing pilots, or their own reds, but whats new? What's new is that in CVA-controlled Providence neutrals only had to watch for terrorists invading the territory and not those who were seen by all present authorities as legitimate citizens. * Jakiin Torash Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer' Uncle Jak wants YOU to join the Khanid Provincial Vanguard!
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.03.11 02:05:00 - [52] The only people who will have a problem with the new Providence will be those organizations who are incapable of/unwilling to manage their own ROE, standings and diplomacy. Sorry, but I don't think U'K is going to hold your hand and spoonfeed you your daily dose of nullsec. Deal with it. On the other hand, this presents a tremendous opportunity for those who have some ambition, basic communication skills and are capable of thinking for themselves.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.11 02:32:00 - [53] Originally by: ChipMo We do not enforce our standards on anyone else. I would encourage other pilots to take up the NRDS way of life as it is beneficial all round however I would never demand it. Isn't declaring war on others because of their freely chosen views then demanding they publically renounce them to satisfy your ego a form of "enforcing your standings on anyone else"? I'm asking because the Star Fraction has a long history of doing this. Quote: At this moment in time neither AAA nor Atlas are our allies, we are in fact red to both entities, however our weapons are currently trained in the same direction so I can understand how it may appear this way. What did you do to end up red to them? It seems you're red to everyone? Perhaps if you'd focus your efforts on building safe space for pilots where they can be free to engage in commerce you'd accomplish a bit more then your wanton focus on endless violence. Edit: Quote: There seems to be a few misconceptions about the nature of Anarchy in this thread, first and foremost Anarchy is not freedom without consequence your actions will create reactions, if you kill on a whim you will more than likely be killed yourself later down the line. Second, Anarchy cannot create?!? what non-sense, Anarchy is not a rule that says you must always do everything alone, by its very nature it avoids rules and yet many people seem to presume this rule upon Anarchist nature. Well, it is false. Anarchists are free to come together for the common good as and when they see fit. In this nature entities like the Star Fraction were born from individual anarchists. And look at what we have created! So anarchists are free to come together for a common goal but others are not? After all people in Providence who didn't care for the CVA were more then welcome to move or stay there and stay neutral. No one forced them to live there. Quote: Space is dangerous, Space is hard, we can work as a community to improve it or provide some level of common security but it is up to local groups to do it. The great law and order of CVA is a lie. It is a lie propagated to encourage people to sacrifice their personal sovereignty and conform with their desires. Can you name ONE SINGLE SYSTEM where your actions destroying peacekeeping forces has led to a better life and security for local residents? I would guess not as pirates seem to follow you like the plague and likewise you seem to never be attacked by them. I'm beginning to think the Star Fraction is really an agent of piracy leading the charge to destabilize a system before the pirates move in to take over. Quote: There is no police force or law and order in Providance, residents are left to burn in their ignorance. So you readily admit where there was once a safe region of space for neutrals and newer pilots that was kept safe from pirates by CVA there is now a bloodbath of murder and mayhem... and somehow this is better. Quote: In an Anarchy, individuals arrange their own security. Yes it may be a little more effort, but at least it is real security rather than the 'if we feel like it / fly by night' style offered by the CVA. Who are you to decide the CVA style is incorrect? It seems to me the years and years of peace in Providence and the prosperity many obtained there is very indicative of people deciding they wanted to live within the security confines of the CVA. Once again the Star Fraction hypocrisy is clear. Condemn others for helping their fellow man while at the same time helping pirates and condeming others who choose freely to live in Providence. Which is it? Either you support people freely choosing their destiny or you don't? Remember though... if they choose to live within an alliance's rules that is then a choice you must also respect as "freely chosen". You seem to forget that. Hypocrites. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Xiro Taunt	Posted - 2010.03.11 02:52:00 - [54] What this new vision means is... Don't bother going to providence. You might as well go somewhere else. It will be all much the same. In fact it will be better to go somewhere else. Somewhere quiet without so much variety of ROE and policy. And I have flown all over the place in my tour of the edge of these systems of 0.0. It was all very quiet. And I was in just a t1 frigate with not much skill. I was shot down only twice in 100's of jumps. At lest in providence you see numbers of pilots. And yes I have been shot down by CVA holders. BUt they still better than this 'new providence'.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.11 02:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Jade Constantine CVA used the term NRDS as a cover for their standings enclosurist regime in Providence. They decided who was red and who wasn't and everyone needed to follow their standings regime or risk being set red and fired upon by those weaker entities that the CVA could bully. Thats fact. That is also how 99% of 0.0 works with the only difference being that most standings regimes use blue as the carrot rather than red as the stick. In actuality there was very little room for genuine neutrality in CVA controlled Providence. The first time an enemy of the CVA would come in local the enforcers would be leaning on "neutrals" declaring people "pirates" and "hostiles" and standings would be set ensuring that the CVA enemies became the enemies of "everyone" and the standings regime marched on. They would lean on them sure... but they didn't force them. In the end neutrals make their own decisions and there are plenty of neutrals living in Providence who don't follow the CVA KOS list. Your actions leading to pirate infested systems has a consequence... all these innocents you seek to help are now victims of your actions. Quote: "But ultimately NRDS is personal to the organization practising it. Star Fraction is NRDS, but the question you should ask is how do you get onto the SF red list. Simple I answer. You attack one of our ships. How do you stay off the SF red list. Simple, don't attack our ships. What if we attack one of the SF allies in theatre? Thats your business (and theirs). You are a liar Jade Constantine. Just a few weeks ago you sat here and stated you declared another alliance red because they had declared one of your member corporations red (remember... that little corp theft your alliance arranged?). In that instance your corporation hadn't been attacked so obviously there are many ways to be "red" to the Star Fraction. Likewise I also recall you using extortion to try and get your way and likewise recall several times here on IGS you have implied a threat to others who spoke their minds because you found it objectionable. Freedom to you only includes freedom you decide is worthwhile apparently. Quote: "See? Its about respecting the independence and individuality of other organizations. We don't consider ourselves a paternal imperialist power that should be telling you what you should be doing and who should be set red. We aren't going to have people telling lies about other people being "pirates" to better control the masses. You need to get your own diplomats busy, do your own deals and take responsibility for your own actions." Maybe they were pirates? I tell you what if I was flying thru a system and some pirates were at a gate and someone said "watch out for the pirates" I'd certainly be thankful. Quote: Freedom is sometimes terrifying. Freedom means you need to think for yourselves. Freedom means you take responsibility and solve your own problems. Freedom means you must fight to be free. Perhaps the biggest evidence of your hypocrisy... why is the Star Fraction constantly involved in wars that don't involve them? I'm asking because here you seem to imply it is up to people to take responsibility for themselves and their defense. If that is the case why are you even here? Using your viewpoint you should be out somewhere minding your own business. After all Jade by fighting for others as you've claimed to do all this time you are in effect doing what you condemn others for. In claiming you want to "free" a system from "imperialism" aren't you making a decision for those local residents yourself? You should be staying out of it and leaving it to them. This is perhaps the hypocrisy of the Star Fraction at its clearest. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9 Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.11 04:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Chav Queen Untill you have witnessed Providence from the side of law and order you will never understand what a wonderful place it was. I had the pleasure of a couple of visits and was amazed to see so many people out and about waving to each other in local and minding their own business. It was a place where new pilots could safely enter 00 and get thier first taste of the great beyond. Untill you have seen it first hand, it really is hard to believe that somthing like that could ever work in 00. I can only assume that you live up to the standards of your taken name, Chav. One of poor education and standards and a particular fashion sense most would not wish to be seen dead in. I lived under the banner of CVAs Providence for roughly two standard years. In that time myself and my corp did indeed make many friends, some are still current, some due to our re-alignment are not. Be they friend or enemy now though many of them agree on one thing, the Providence that now burns was one of greed, sloth and fear. All your fabled NRDS delivered to the people of New Eden was the inept and lazy pilots that we now see running desperately to the security of high sec and Concord. I watched the fat get fatter, I watched them run and hide at POS and stations when a CVA marked red came into there systems. I watched good men and women burn at my side as we few defended Providence. I watched the CVA slowly let them die as they too became grief stricken with that they had created, a bunch of fat, lazy and useless space pilots who didn't deserve the clone they oft awoke in, screaming with terror. I sat in "your" space and defended it. I didn't see you there. I didn't see the majority of posters in here either bar one or two, mainly actual CVA pilots. You say it worked, yes, I guess it did, if all you wished to create were puppets out to line their own pockets over and over. We left CVAs Providence for the reasons I have stated above. We left because we saw this sickening behavior daily and we realised that it had to change. We left friends behind because we thought it was right, we now fight some of those same friends because we KNOW we were right. Take your fairytales elsewhere and your fashion sense with you, Chav.
Lyra Sarum Amarr Sarum Family Survey Commission	Posted - 2010.03.11 05:26:00 - [57] Edited by: Lyra Sarum on 11/03/2010 05:27:18 I went to Unity Station. I couldn't dock. I can only assume that like the majority of the cluster, I am red to the alliance with such wonderful vision of future Providence. EDIT: I should also note it was very quiet. Indeed we are looking at a new wasteland the likes of which we have previously never seen.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.11 05:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Archbishop You are a liar Jade Constantine. Just a few weeks ago you sat here and stated you declared another alliance red because they had declared one of your member corporations red Shock horror Star Fraction in reciprical red standings scandal. Go home you pathetic little man. If you haven't realized by now the futility and impotence of your desperate little slanders there is no hope for you. Your reputation is null and your penchant for lying so pervasive I find it hard to believe even your own corporation believe a word you are saying these days. True Knowledge
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.11 05:48:00 - [59] I know a few pilots who have left our alliance to go to UK or related alliances. Generally they were pilots who simply could not cope with the concept of not shooting peaceful nuetral pilots. And so they moved to UK, which says it all really.
Nina Chandra	Posted - 2010.03.11 05:55:00 - [60] I'm red too apparently. Unity station rocks. But I only got to see the outside. At least the single UK guy there didn't shoot me. hah.

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