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Ick Ickagami
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Posted - 2010.03.12 12:48:00 -
[1]
.........because it is that I am very confused.
I make quite a nice living self destructing ships. I fly from place to place, buying and insuring ships only to undock them, fly them to a SS, blow them up, collect the insurance and salvage the wrecks.
This nets me a nice daily profit and involves absolutely NO risk whatsoever on my part. At some locations I even forego the salvage by flipping a can and allowing someone to legally destroy me; it is much faster that way.
What confuses me is the fact that I can not understand the rationale behind a builder putting something on the market at below insurance costs. Why doesn't he/she/It blow up the ship themselves, thus increasing their dismally slim margins?
It just makes no business sense to me. Not, of course, that I am complaining; their laziness/lack of interest/whatever provides me ( and others, I am sure ) with a decent subsistence living.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.12 12:50:00 -
[2]
Not everyone can fly titans...
Secure 3rd party service |
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.03.12 12:53:00 -
[3]
Not everyone selling ships are building them; Some people just need some quick isk so chose to liquidate their assets at a firesale price. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Lena Cakelicious
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:03:00 -
[4]
Not everyone is aware of insurancefraud or in otherwords know what opportunity cost is. Not everyone can fly what they build Not everyone who buys&sells them can fly them Not everyone is smart enough to see that minerals are in fact not free :P Not everyone [...] feel free to extend that list ;)
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:04:00 -
[5]
Because people are stupid and fail to actually calculate costs and prices, probably the same peopel who still think that the ore they mined themselves is free so, in their eyes, they are making a HUGE profit...
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:06:00 -
[6]
some builders do suicide their ships. some builders value their time higher than what can be earned by suiciding. some don't care either way.
issue is more in miners selling minerals for whatever they can get.
well, i'm not complaining. cheap ships ftw! ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Carine Parnasse
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:14:00 -
[7]
I dont have the battleship skills in all 4 races, and i make dozens of ships a day. I can either sell them for a bit bellow thier insurance or i can spend 5 minutes destroying each one, after getting all the skills up. Considering its still profitable to build bellow insurance and i can make more money doing missions then blowing up the ships, i just dont care.
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Alchemist's Alt
Gallente Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:23:00 -
[8]
Ship cost + Insurance fee < Insurance payout + salvage
Enjoy blowing up those shuttles FIRST!! Bring back Derek Chu |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2010 13:26:46
Originally by: Ick Ickagami What confuses me is the fact that I can not understand the rationale behind a builder putting something on the market at below insurance costs.
Depends how much under insurance balance.
If it's half a mil, even 1.5 mil below breakeven, they probably don't want to bother with it and would rather let others do it for them instead, since they make a nice enough profit from manufacture already to "spread the workload". If it's 3 mil below, I'd say they're a bit too lazy for their own good, or just don't know better, as you're usually better off doing it yourself by now. If it's 10 mil or thereabouts under (yes, I have seen Rokhs sold to 105 mil buy orders, and other similar trades on a more or less regular basis, I won't tell you where), I'd say they're starting to look like pretty big idiots and/or utter n00bs.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:31:00 -
[10]
hmm I did this at times also, but the community is been made aware so the profits dwimble. I never did waste my time suiciding anything for less tahn 1,5m Difference.
Just have to see: Sell the ship for 1m under isnuracne payout or put the price higher and not sell it. Suiciding a ship and salvaging takes up to 2-5 minutes, so depending on their hourly profits that may be rather slim.
anway, the problem is cheap minerals from people who think "mined minerals are free" But it is a free market, that insurance thing just is a ISK source which shoudl lead to inflation
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Joe Censored
Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:37:00 -
[11]
In 10 minutes I can:
1) Kill several BS rat spawns, taking in about 9-13 mil in bounties, plus possible ok items such as 1600 Rolled Tungsten plates, etc 2) Commit insurance fraud 2-3 times for approx 1.5 mil each, for a total of about 4.5 mil
So when it comes down to it, committing insurance fraud would lose me around 7 mil every 10 minutes. Thats why I'm not
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joe Censored In 10 minutes I can:
1) Kill several BS rat spawns, taking in about 9-13 mil in bounties, plus possible ok items such as 1600 Rolled Tungsten plates, etc 2) Commit insurance fraud 2-3 times for approx 1.5 mil each, for a total of about 4.5 mil
So when it comes down to it, committing insurance fraud would lose me around 7 mil every 10 minutes. Thats why I'm not
this.
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Siroh
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Posted - 2010.03.13 02:59:00 -
[13]
Completely agree with Joe
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.03.13 03:12:00 -
[14]
....another reason.....as if there aren't enough.....
Insurance fraud is more boring that mining. Really!
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Capt Lagos
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Posted - 2010.03.13 05:54:00 -
[15]
I laff at the people who suicide their ships for insurannce fraud calling builders and miners lazy, as said above by Joe I believe, ratting combined with loot drops nets more profit than suiciding ships. Blowing up your own ship and not risking anything is really being the lazy one IMO
Get off your sack and go kill some rats instead of blowing up your own ship!
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Alchemist's Alt
Gallente Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.03.13 08:37:00 -
[16]
So I have a wide range of ships and only a few would ever get me a profit by this insurance fraud, comparing it to other ISK making techniques insurance fraud is quite possibly the worst profit maker and more unreliable technique, I am not sure what BS you are using / insuring but from what I saw you would be losing about 4 - 10 million each time from 'insurance fees'.
But until you are making billions I really doubt this should be classed as a problem, even with alot of accounts doing this you will probably be making the equivalent of lvl 2's FIRST!! Bring back Derek Chu |
Callista Sincera
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.13 08:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Callista Sincera on 13/03/2010 09:00:23
Originally by: Alchemist's Alt I am not sure what BS you are using / insuring but from what I saw you would be losing about 4 - 10 million each time from 'insurance fees'.
You used to make about 10-14M for tier3 BS. Not sure what we're at now. There are also easier and faster ways to get blown up then the selfdestruct, so the profit is very significantly above running L4s.
I remember that when I mentioned this in one of those "nerf suicidegank" threads a couple of months ago, the local trolls were all calling BS on me and trying to tell me how much they'd actually lose ISK with their ganks and how poor they really are... uh - In simplistic terms it has been said that there is enough Zero Point Energy in the volume the size of a coffee cup to boil away EarthÆs oceans. |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.03.13 09:06:00 -
[18]
There is less effort involved in selling ships in Jita than there is in self-destructing and salvaging them.
The difference in profit margin between selling and insurance fraud (when buying minerals, building and selling in and around Jita) is not large enough to be worth it. ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2010.03.13 09:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Joe Censored In 10 minutes I can:
1) Kill several BS rat spawns, taking in about 9-13 mil in bounties, plus possible ok items such as 1600 Rolled Tungsten plates, etc 2) Commit insurance fraud 2-3 times for approx 1.5 mil each, for a total of about 4.5 mil
So when it comes down to it, committing insurance fraud would lose me around 7 mil every 10 minutes. Thats why I'm not
this.
not really... ~10mil per 20minute-wallet-entry i would believe though. and that doesn't sound like looting at all. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Alchemist's Alt
Gallente Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.03.13 09:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Callista Sincera Edited by: Callista Sincera on 13/03/2010 09:00:23
Originally by: Alchemist's Alt I am not sure what BS you are using / insuring but from what I saw you would be losing about 4 - 10 million each time from 'insurance fees'.
You used to make about 10-14M for tier3 BS. Not sure what we're at now. There are also easier and faster ways to get blown up then the selfdestruct, so the profit is very significantly above running L4s.
I remember that when I mentioned this in one of those "nerf suicidegank" threads a couple of months ago, the local trolls were all calling BS on me and trying to tell me how much they'd actually lose ISK with their ganks and how poor they really are... uh
Its about 3 - 6 million providing you buy correct which is funny since you can make more just buy buying / selling XD
But yeah I take my original comment back, didnt bother checking T3 BS, assuming all the trading goes fast and accurate you are looking at a nice sexy profit but really I dont see this being any better or easier than general trading but it is nice for suicide gankers / pvpers though, people who generally cant make ISK by other means FIRST!! Bring back Derek Chu |
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2010.03.13 12:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Blane Xero Not everyone selling ships are building them; Some people just need some quick isk so chose to liquidate their assets at a firesale price.
They need quick isk...so they sell their ship. Could they not wait the 2 minutes it takes to SD?
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.03.13 13:54:00 -
[22]
i guess thats the intention of the insurance nerf now. not for suicide gankers but for fauders. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
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