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Aubrey Maturin
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Posted - 2010.03.12 20:02:00 -
[1]
Is there anything in the vagabonds weight class that can 1v1 and have any hope of winning/killing it? This isnt a rage post but in the last few months I have had the misfortune of having vagas run circles around gangs. You cant tackle it because it eats frigs/ceptors/af's alive and theres nothing else fast enough to catch it. Anybody got any suggestions?
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.12 20:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 12/03/2010 20:09:05 Tackle it with a fast ceptor like claw or crusader, they dont die before they get a scram on, and if you got enough damage dealers (like say a drake and a caracal) the vaga dies before your ceptor even does.
Tackle it with a buffered ceptor, i.e. stiletto with MSE. Cakewalk.
Tackle it with an AF, jaguar works nicely and has no problem taking the damage.
Or the solution for pretty much everything that needs to be outrun, Dramiel.
Solo it in another cruiser, Curse or Cynabal do this pretty easy.
Most other things in its weight class will be able to force it to disengage and run.
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Royce Hellwakka
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Posted - 2010.03.12 20:15:00 -
[3]
neuts
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.12 20:25:00 -
[4]
Use a Cynabal if you want to solo it. They are like Vagabonds on steroids but cheaper
Note that if the Vagabond pilot is of the jittery/cowardly breed he can't be killed with normal means so another Vagabond/Cynabal is needed to run him down.
Fortunately a vast majority of pilots have balls these days and are not loathe to venture close(ish). A single MWD burst at the right time is normally enough to connect with an overheated scrambler .. I have used a Sacrilege to great effect doing that. Previous suggestion of using a Curse is solid as well, neutralizer range covers his entire engagement envelope so he either buggers off or dies.
If neither of those options are available to you, consider fitting 2-3 damps and/or TDs in your gang. Either module, but especially TDs, will make a Vagabond a fast but utterly harmless flying stick
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Royce Hellwakka neuts
This.. Curse is a vaga killer usually.
You usually cannot tackle a vaga with a frig class ship, it will kill it.
Cynabal would be a good fight, depending on the pilot really. ------------
My Killboard- The Jerk Cartel |
Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:42:00 -
[6]
Navy Issue Caracal or Cerberus with AML's. They can't catch and kill it, but much like frigates they can put the fear into it. If you have one of these as anti support in your gang it can do wonders. I've put 2 Vagas well into armor with NI Caracal and scared them both out of disruption range, well before they could kill me. (Died to the Deimos that warped to 0 a little later, but the vagas couldn't touch me)
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:57:00 -
[7]
With TDs you can pretty much screw day of any vaga pilot. But their strong point is not getting caught, their dps isnt really impressive (although improved with TE changes).
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ABITA
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Use a Cynabal if you want to solo it. They are like Vagabonds on steroids but cheaper
Note that if the Vagabond pilot is of the jittery/cowardly breed he can't be killed with normal means so another Vagabond/Cynabal is needed to run him down.
Fortunately a vast majority of pilots have balls these days and are not loathe to venture close(ish). A single MWD burst at the right time is normally enough to connect with an overheated scrambler .. I have used a Sacrilege to great effect doing that. Previous suggestion of using a Curse is solid as well, neutralizer range covers his entire engagement envelope so he either buggers off or dies.
If neither of those options are available to you, consider fitting 2-3 damps and/or TDs in your gang. Either module, but especially TDs, will make a Vagabond a fast but utterly harmless flying stick
I eat Cynabals alive.
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el Sabor
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Posted - 2010.03.13 00:18:00 -
[9]
Arazu with overheated scram maybe?
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.13 02:34:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 13/03/2010 02:35:35
Originally by: ABITA
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Use a Cynabal if you want to solo it. They are like Vagabonds on steroids but cheaper
Note that if the Vagabond pilot is of the jittery/cowardly breed he can't be killed with normal means so another Vagabond/Cynabal is needed to run him down.
Fortunately a vast majority of pilots have balls these days and are not loathe to venture close(ish). A single MWD burst at the right time is normally enough to connect with an overheated scrambler .. I have used a Sacrilege to great effect doing that. Previous suggestion of using a Curse is solid as well, neutralizer range covers his entire engagement envelope so he either buggers off or dies.
If neither of those options are available to you, consider fitting 2-3 damps and/or TDs in your gang. Either module, but especially TDs, will make a Vagabond a fast but utterly harmless flying stick
I eat Cynabals alive.
In your Vaga?
Haha, I would like to see that vs a competent pilot.
Killing 5kyscream's Cynabal doesn't count, because we all know he's a fool.
- Intigo
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.03.13 05:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 13/03/2010 02:38:47
Originally by: ABITA
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Use a Cynabal if you want to solo it. They are like Vagabonds on steroids but cheaper
Quote: I eat Cynabals alive.
In your Vaga?
Haha, I would like to see that vs a competent pilot.
Killing 5kyscream's Cynabal doesn't count, because we all know he's a fool. Plus, it would appear that you use neutral RR, so you are just plain sad.
- Intigo
I thought every kill counted. Becides, what have you done lately?
Atleast, 5ky has enough balls to fight the fight and not run away like a *****.
lach or razu w/gang bonus+heat=dead in water vag. combine that with curse to if you like.
anyhhow, I've seen wolf and jag solo vags on many km's.
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.13 07:28:00 -
[12]
Curse seems a good bet to me.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Oli Robbo
Gallente Entity. Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.03.13 20:21:00 -
[13]
Most of these suggestions are fail, [Espec the inty ones, you'll get instapopped, especially if the vaga pilot is fairly decent and fits a med neut and uses a drop/frentix booster - the one that give tracking bonus].
The only thing to kill a vaga is neuts, which means your best bet is a shield tanked curse and keep just inside pt range. Or maybe an injector pilgrim, armor tanked w/ tracking disrupts and orbit him at 500m.
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.03.13 20:35:00 -
[14]
Curse, Arazu/Lachesis or any ship that does enough dps to force to disengage, even a Cyclone can do it easily.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.13 20:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Oli Robbo
Most of these suggestions are fail, [Espec the inty ones, you'll get instapopped, especially if the vaga pilot is fairly decent and fits a med neut and uses a drop/frentix booster - the one that give tracking bonus].
A Vaga doesnt track inties for **** once they are close and you got them scrambled, that takes a competent inty pilot about 3 seconds.
Also, lol drop booster, good luck with that
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.13 21:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 13/03/2010 20:48:49
Originally by: Oli Robbo
Most of these suggestions are fail, [Espec the inty ones, you'll get instapopped, especially if the vaga pilot is fairly decent and fits a med neut and uses a drop/frentix booster - the one that give tracking bonus].
A Vaga doesnt track inties for **** once they are close and you got them scrambled, that takes a competent inty pilot about 3 seconds.
Also, lol drop booster, good luck with that
And, lmfao Pilgrim orbiting at 500m, how do you do that again? Ask him nicely to get close?
Do you think you can tackle my Vagabond with your Interceptor if we start at 50k?
- Intigo
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TgrFox5
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Posted - 2010.03.13 21:28:00 -
[17]
Curse, Arazu, Rapier... and their class counterparts, take your pick.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.13 21:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Do you think you can tackle my Vagabond with your Interceptor if we start at 50k?
Depends on what your Vaga is doing, if you are aligned for warpout keeping distance to whatever is after you, no reason to even try since you can bail anytime.
If you are tied up fighting something, easy. How long does it take your Vaga again to get a lock?
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Kalius Prime
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.03.14 08:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kalius Prime on 14/03/2010 08:16:57
All this talk of ship types.... well I bet Intigo will flame and humiliate me, but I say make it simple: pick one of Web, Scram, or Neut.
Vaga is not an easy ship to fly, and one mistake usually spells death.
A buffered T1 cruiser, a T1 frigate, most any Battlecruiser can easily kill a Vagabond if it can get within the golden 13km window of opportunity.
~ A well timed MWD overheat while the Vagabond or Cynabel is on approach for initial tackle can often catch a player off guard and bring them a lot closer than they intended to place themselves. Without compensation for the target's new speed, inertia can drift the approaching Vagabond or Cynabel right into you, or at least a good measure closer than the normal 20+ kilometres. A slow reaction from that player will then have their ship turning to pull orbit, creating a window of opportunity wherein it is often possible to grab a web. Range makes using Medium Neuts harder here, but it is still very possible.
While a good Vagabond or Cynabel pilot will have their approach sorted and will never burn directly at a target, a well timed speed boost on approach can still trick them into a short lull wherein their ship is moving a lot slower than normal while adjusting.
~ One can also attempt to trick the pilot into warping directly on top of you. An accomplished Rifter pilot can kill a Vagabond easily enough if such a technique is successful. The naysayers who are touting the power of a medium energy neut have clearly never fought a cruiser or above solo in a frigate equipped with a nos. Once the Vagabond's drones have been killed, most any frigate will get themselves a nice kill. A good Rifter pilot, having established a scram and a tight orbit on a larger target, should always be able to kill a full flight of un-bonus'd Warrior IIs before dying.
~ Another effective tactic is to bring multiples onto the field after the fight has started. Once the Vaga has established his orbit, and is chewing away at your Drake or what have you, it is often possible for a T1 frigate to warp in and catch scram and web. Bringing two frigates in onto the Vaga's target, from separate directions, both at a range consistent with the Vaga or Cynabel's orbit, makes it very hard for the Vaga to maintain 13km. Rather than having a blob sit on a gate, all ships on grid, with the Vaga harassing at range and periodic outliers dying while trying in vain to run the Vaga down, get the vaga comfortably engaged and then bring tacklers in. Speaking defensively, keeping numerous small ships off grid or 150km away will make a solo Vagabond pilot very anxious.
~ The best situation a ship such as a Vagabond or Cynabel can be in, is one where its targets are chasing it around. Approaching / chasing frigates, even when flown to angle in on approach, have a dramatically lowered transversal and a signature bloom from MWD; they die very quickly to Medium turrets. Approaching cruisers and Battlecruisers have a tendency to separate themselves from their friends, at which point they are easily picked off, helpless to the Vagabond or Cynabel's superior range.
You are leagues better off having a Vagabond chase after you, then to be chasing after a Vaga. When a Vaga is chasing you, is when the Vaga makes critical mistakes as above.
You can also forget about playing smart with T1 ships, and just field a Rapier, a Curse, or a Drake.
To be honest, Vagabonds are very hard to fly, and very easy to lose if fielded aggressively. I hate them.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.14 08:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Do you think you can tackle my Vagabond with your Interceptor if we start at 50k?
Depends on what your Vaga is doing, if you are aligned for warpout keeping distance to whatever is after you, no reason to even try since you can bail anytime.
If you are tied up fighting something, easy. How long does it take your Vaga again to get a lock?
What...?
Do you expect a Vagabond to keep orbiting someone else when he sees an Interceptor pop up on grid 50k away? You obviously align out, lock you up and then kill you as you are closing in.
I'm not gonna warp out because killing you is just so stupidly easy.
- Intigo
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Kalius Prime
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.03.14 08:29:00 -
[21]
I forgot to mention the 180.
Try holding orbit on a ship burning at full speed in a straight line. Unless the orbiting ship's speed is much higher, their orbit will be a sort of Oval. This Oval has a dead spot, and if timed correctly, the ship burning in a straight line can pull a 180 degree turn, overheat MWD, and often catch 13km for a web. Much the same principal as overheating MWD to catch web on initial approach.
Practice some of these suggestions in mock fights with your friends.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.14 08:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Do you expect a Vagabond to keep orbiting someone else when he sees an Interceptor pop up on grid 50k away? You obviously align out, lock you up and then kill you as you are closing in.
As far as popping up on grid goes, most of the time you'll land no more than 25km from them anyway, which doesnt leave enough time to lock me up before the scrambler stops any attempt to burn out and keep transversal low.
Even from 50km out its doable, though you gonna take a volley or two from the guns before you tackle em, which usually means dying to drones while they die to your friends.
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
I'm not gonna warp out because killing you is just so stupidly easy.
Most Vagabond pilots feel that way, thats why its so easy to get them scrambled. Yes I might lose my inty in the process, but I dont care since you lose your HAC.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.14 08:56:00 -
[23]
Yeah - no. You are fighting incompetent Vagabond pilots and as such you assume everyone is.
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Kalius Prime
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.03.14 09:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah - no. You are fighting incompetent Vagabond pilots and as such you assume everyone is.
Bailing when interceptors are landing ~30km from you is not easy or foolproof unless it was predicted ahead of time.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.03.14 09:16:00 -
[25]
If you are a better pilot than the Vaga pilot, any cruiser w/ 2pt and a lucky overheat will do it.
As far as gangs go, most frigates with a NOS can tackle it provided they know a thing or two about manually flying (ie, not setting orbit at 500m and spamming it). They'd probably need capless weapons to knock the drones off their case, but holding it down for even 15-30 seconds can give you time to tackle it with a heavier ship. I think most people would trade a T1 frigate for a Vaga KM. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Kimura Masahiko
Genos Occidere Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.14 11:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kalius Prime
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah - no. You are fighting incompetent Vagabond pilots and as such you assume everyone is.
Bailing when interceptors are landing ~30km from you is not easy or foolproof unless it was predicted ahead of time.
If only there was some device in the game that allowed you to see what ships are within a certain range of yours every few seconds. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Kazang
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2010.03.14 11:25:00 -
[27]
Oh it's this thread again...........
Neuts, webs, scrams, gallente recons, missile spam, sentry drones, tackle frigate with logistics/ecm/luck support, dramiels, cynabals, nano cane, nano harb..... yeah there are a lot of ways to kill a vaga.
Kazang
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.14 11:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko
Originally by: Kalius Prime
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah - no. You are fighting incompetent Vagabond pilots and as such you assume everyone is.
Bailing when interceptors are landing ~30km from you is not easy or foolproof unless it was predicted ahead of time.
If only there was some device in the game that allowed you to see what ships are within a certain range of yours every few seconds.
Have I told you lately how awesome you are, Kim? Also ssscchh, those are clearly advanced techniques there, comrade.
- Intigo
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.14 12:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko
Originally by: Kalius Prime
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah - no. You are fighting incompetent Vagabond pilots and as such you assume everyone is.
Bailing when interceptors are landing ~30km from you is not easy or foolproof unless it was predicted ahead of time.
If only there was some device in the game that allowed you to see what ships are within a certain range of yours every few seconds.
Have I told you lately how awesome you are, Kim? Also ssscchh, those are clearly advanced techniques there, comrade.
- Intigo
If only said device was automatic and didn't give you RSI :(
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superteds
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Posted - 2010.03.14 14:41:00 -
[30]
Missile boats do nicely.
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