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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.17 22:21:00 -
[1]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave CCP Chronotis is working on a dev blog about insurance which should detail the how's and why's.
Looking forward to reading this. I hope you guys have taken the opportunity to do this properly and not just taken the easy route.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.17 22:28:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Akita T
THIS CHANGE IS ONE OF THE MOST HORRIBLE POSSIBLE CHANGES YOU COULD POSSIBLY MAKE. .
Unless of course you don't really care about artificially maintaining mineral producer income levels at the expense of people who want to use minerals, and you do care about stemming some of the unbelievably vast ISK inflows. Then it's a fine change.
Rather than rant unsubstantiated abuse, have you considered making suggestions to increase mineral sinks, tighten up mineral supply and generally calming down.
Or perhaps you have a mining alt or two lobbying your main's posts here...? A little stockpile of minerals, maybe? That might be more likely, as you've never been overly concerned with mining income in the past.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 11:03:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Akita T Yeah, we've been in (c) for about 6 months now (mostly thanks to the Veldspar respawn rate buff, but several other factors before and even the most recent sov system change "helped" along). We had been over in (b) for a little over 2 years before that, maybe even 3 years before (drone regions, w-space). The situation in (a) is more or less the situation we had at start of EVE until mining barges and then exhumers came around, transitioning us to (b) slowly but surely... let's call that situation (a1), because it was actually pretty damn good for miners back then.
Dropping the insurance level will very likely catapult us back into (b) before sliding slowly back towards (c) with just lower miner income, lower priced T1 ships (but similar PvP loss cost) and not much else, but if the insurance level keeps getting adjusted, we might end up with situation (a), but not the nice (a1) we had at the start, but with a (a2) version that's not bad, but completely horrible for miners.
Originally by: Malcanis Rather than rant unsubstantiated abuse, have you considered making suggestions to increase mineral sinks, tighten up mineral supply and generally calming down. Or perhaps you have a mining alt or two lobbying your main's posts here...? A little stockpile of minerals, maybe? That might be more likely, as you've never been overly concerned with mining income in the past.
Actually, I have been pretty concerned with mining-related activities, have been for the past 3 years or so. I've had multiple attempts of talking some sense into CCP, even tried via the CSM, nothing worked. I have merely let it go as "not worth bothering with anymore", until now.
I find mining boring as hell, and thoroughly unrewarding. I can totally see why people would stop caring and macro it up. The last time I actually bothered mining was well over 2 years ago, and even back then it was just for half an hour or so. I can fly a Hulk, never bought one on TQ though, my largest mining ship is a Retriever (not even a Covetor), and it's barely seen any use at all ever since I bought it.
I would be highly surprised if my total mineral "stockpile" value comes even close to half a percent of my total NAV.
So, no, absolutely no "hidden agenda" here, just thinking of the consequences people playing will end up suffering. It's _not_ unsubstantiated abuse just because you're not aware of the "substance" behind it I'm a bit past making suggestions and calming down, if 2-3 years of making suggestions and being (relatively) calm wasn't enough, hasn't helped one bit, quite the opposite... so, at "5 before midnight", they won't be helping either. Hence, the "abuse".
*sigh*
We have the situation we do now because it is insanely easy and (in hi-sec and to a certain extent w-space) safe. All the mining "buffs" of the last 3 years have all been to the same effect: ENCOURAGING MACROS
If you want to help miners, make mining difficult and dangerous.
It sounds like a paradox as first glance, but it's really not. It's the only way to make mining worthwhile as income or gameplay.
Well, apart from instituting ever-increasing NPC buy orders for players to compete against, of course - but that really does kick new PvPers in the shorts.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 21:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mono Loco make it player run
Uh yeah, since it's inherently loss-making, that's not ever going to work. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 07:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave CCP Chronotis is working on a dev blog about insurance which should detail the how's and why's.
How's it coming along? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 07:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T
I'd LOVE to see that promised devblog, and I would love it even more if in there they will say WHAT ELSE are they doing alongside this insurance change, but I'm pretty certain it will only be the insurance change and nothing else. And hence, the "rage".
And on this we also agree. But the "RAGE" is not constructive or useful. All it does is promote the "well screw those guys, everything we do just makes them mad" attitude. Especially when it comes from someone as influential as yourself.
I REALLY hope that CCP aren't just going to put in a flat reduction in the nominal IER mineral values unless it's a very temporary place-holder for a more sophisticated system.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 11:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 19/03/2010 10:11:21
Quote:
If you want to help miners, make mining difficult and dangerous.
It sounds like a paradox as first glance, but it's really not. It's the only way to make mining worthwhile as income or gameplay.
The same should also be applied to missioning (unlike mining, it floods EvE with minerals AND ISK), you were less supportive about that, though.
What?
Did you mean to reply to someone else? You're seriously trying to assert that I, Malcanis, dont want to see missioning made more difficult and dangerous?
PS the rest of your post was pretty bad too.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 11:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Esk Esme why change insurance at all tbh??
becouse a few whineing bear's cry over ganking and insurance scam well these same bear's will cry alot harder and more with the base price droped on insurance cousing a knock effect to price of minrials also most t1 non named items due to build cost beeing lowerd
mins already hit hard with dronelands/ihubs/wh's working as intended probly lol
why not concentrate on something that needs fixing hmm maybe lag
my english sux sue m8
Because I want cheaper fighter bombers for my Nyx.
FakeEdit: And a cheaper Nyx.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 15:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Snorre Sturlasson Each ship is constructed with a minimum of minerals. So why not making a price index of the minerals, so that the insurance payout and the insurance price depending on the index?
Rumour has it that that's exactly what they're doing. The reason that people are getting excited about such a change is that it remove the price floor that's been propping up mineral prices. Thus, in the absence of other changes, the income of the individual mineral producer is likely to fall considerably.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 17:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
We need up to date information before passing judgment. I hope the new Dev blog will have them. if not, support this: [Request of informations] Sources of minerals.
If we get 40 or so supporters there is a chance the CSM will ask CCP to give the informations.
This tbh. Everyone who is remotely interested in mining, industry or the EVE economy should support Venkul's proposal. We desperately need up to date data if this is to be discussed in any meaningful way.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.20 23:35:00 -
[11]
And tbh it should cost some ISK to lose a ship. Free T1 ships are not, overall, a good thing.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.21 22:16:00 -
[12]
I sure am looking forward to reading that devblog.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.22 11:03:00 -
[13]
Hope we'll be seeing that blog soon!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.23 13:57:00 -
[14]
It would be really helpful to see that promised devblog IMO
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.23 22:27:00 -
[15]
It's difficult to remember a time when T1 ship prices were significantly above the net insurance value.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.24 18:17:00 -
[16]
You know what would improve this thread a whole lot?
A link to Chronitis' dev blog!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.25 19:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Malcanis You know what would improve this thread a whole lot?
A link to Chronitis' dev blog!
to save you the effort of the daily bump, it will be out early next week.
My daily bumping backbone!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: xOmGx CCP gonna kill mining.
do NOT neft inshurance it's fine, go do somesing what's metters and fix lag, imnpowe speed and give OLD capital jump effect!!!
Insurance is not fine. It's horribly broken and massively exploited.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.28 17:36:00 -
[19]
You realise that boosting mining yields is what has gotten us in to this position in the first place?
Making mining easier and ore more common does NOT boost mining income. It severely reduces it. The only way for miners to make more ISK is for mining to become more difficult and dangerous, and for minerals to be less easily available.
Now as for encouraging pewpew... I'm all for that, but if people wont fight with free ships then what more can we do? The fact is that there are too many people who only want to increase their wealth and and are emotionally opposed to risking losing a ship of even trivial value to another player. They only want to do stuff they can definitely "win", even if that is mining veldspar in empire.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.29 07:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Malcanis You know what would improve this thread a whole lot?
A link to Chronitis' dev blog!
to save you the effort of the daily bump, it will be out early next week.
It's pretty early!
(Stupid clock change )
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