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Bob Jan	Posted - 2010.03.18 13:53:00 - [1] Hey guys and girls I was wondering if you could help with my Machariel fit. Things you need to know about me: - No I donÆt want to fly a Vargur (its ugly, besides it takes long to get those skills) - I only want to fly a Machariel - Shield skills are almost maxed out (all lvl 4 and a few lvl 5) - Working on gunnery, drones and battleship skills - I only have 3.5M skill points atm cause I just started the game - Got the ISK from friends so I have some semi expensive stuff - I do missions mainly for LP to get faction stuff. - I do not salvage / just LP! - The play style I like to most is flying away for the targets and then "sniping" them - I mostly do missions involving blowing up angels - My targeting range atm is only 68km, working on that as well My current fit: [Machariel, Machi] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Because of CPU problems I can't fit 3x Gyrostabilizer II jet I think 3x Tracking is a bit of an overkill for sniping Sometimes I switch to a few 800MM as well if the missions needs it So suggestions are welcome Bob Jan
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:00:00 - [2] Originally by: Bob Jan I only have 3.5M skill points atm cause I just started the game Eep. For missions, I prefer autos over arty for the additional tracking, but both work excellently. I use a four gyro, 3 TE fit, and I swap out a gyro for a PDU when I use 1200s, iirc. Your mids are cute. I use hardeners instead of cap rechargers, but I don't use Pith mods, so your tank may be adequate ... though your obvious EM hole makes me cringe. Also, I'm one of the crazy carebears who likes an afterburner for missions, but again, I primarily use autos and not arty ...
Bob Jan	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:23:00 - [3] I agree on the EM matter, alltough angels never shoot with EM right?. Ofcourse once I start doing other missions I will need to close that gap. The 100MN is a good idea to increase the speed of wich I create a good sniping spot but I will lose my capstab. Most missions lucky that I fly dont have a gate. I just jump in at 70km and start shooting. The ones that do have a gate I use 800mm. As long as I don't pull to many pirates I can handle the damage. Only big risk I have is once I do get scrambled and the damage output is to high to tank, I need to take down ships fast els its game over.
Lolrus McBukkit	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Lolrus McBukkit on 18/03/2010 15:20:08 Look, no offense meant here, but the idea of someone with 3.5M SP flying a pimped out 950M ISK Pirate Faction BS just makes me cringe. This early in starting doing missions, you WILL lose at least one ship, and if you lose this one you're really screwed. You'll either ragequit, or buy a regular BS, and then ragequit after you realize how much better the Mach was in comparison, and frankly I doubt your friend will give you the money for a new one. If you have your heart set on the Mach, then at least use a Maelstrom for a month or two so more, until your gunnery/drone/BS skills are more up to par.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:32:00 - [5] I found some critical issues you want to fix first: Quote: Working on gunnery, drones and battleship skills Go in with a Mach once you get Large Artillery specialization to 3+ Go in with a Mach once you fly Hobs and Warriors tech 2, possibly with some smidge of racial specialization and drone interfacing 3+ Quote: - I only have 3.5M skill points atm cause I just started the game - Got the ISK from friends so I have some semi expensive stuff You should REALLY go a Maelstrom and do every L4 mission given by your agent first, then fit a Mach. Even a cheapest Maelstrom can do it all, by cheapest I mean "gallium" arties, T1 AB, 150k shield booster and with that you can still do all, even the AE bonus room. Use it as school boat. Quote: Because of CPU problems I can't fit 3x Gyrostabilizer II jet I think 3x Tracking is a bit of an overkill for sniping 3 faction gyros and 2 T2 TE is where you want to be. If you are really swimming in money you could get 2 faction TE and have some more fitting. Quote: I agree on the EM matter, alltough angels never shoot with EM right?. Reinforcing my opinion given above. Try in a Mael first. You'll find many surprise, including how hard EM can some specific angels do, while you are scrammed of course. EvE does not care that you got a fat wallet. EvE demands you got a sufficient experience.
Bob Jan	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:57:00 - [6] Thanks for the response. I guess in many ways you are all right. I will try out a maelstrom so the risk of lossing lots of ISK is smaller. But the Machariel is super duper awsome looking
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/03/2010 16:08:32 Originally by: Bob Jan Thanks for the response. I guess in many ways you are all right. I will try out a maelstrom so the risk of lossing lots of ISK is smaller. But the Machariel is super duper awsome looking It's not just awesome, it's also the "CNR" of Minmatar (poor Fleet Tempest, it sucks so hard in comparison) and thus a beast for Angels missions. But one thing I learned about (life and) EvE is not to hurry. Actually it's more satisfying (and safe) and tasty to upgrade and "feel" the improvement than just take the Ferrari without terms of comparison.
Bob Jan	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:27:00 - [8] Wich fit would you recommend for a Maelstrom? Taking into account the items I have.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:05:00 - [9] I am not an EFT warrior so I can only tell what works for me, expecially regarding the tank. I use 8 x 1400 (but 8 x 1200 is fine) arties As tank I am using (arty fit, I use another tank for my other brawler mael) an x-l shield booster (meta4 "works", a dread guristas (you read well, not caldari navy... saves money) works even better. Shield boost amplifier (they are cheap-ish) GOOD afterburner - RF works good but the m4 is not bad either. Good as in low consumption and still > T1 speed 3 active hardeners, in this case go for T2 because it takes so little to train and the benefits are SO big. 3 gyros and 1 TE and 1 DCU meta 4 or T2. The DCU will save your butt while you learn to kill the scram frigates and similar fun events. Later you can put another TE In case of low CPU drop some 1-2 gyros 3 CCC rigs Notice this is not the ship I use to cut times in half, but you are much better start with this, the other is 800mm based and gets easily popped at the first bad error.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:17:00 - [10] you have the macha, use it! a gist large booster saves a lot of cap and fittings, so switch to that and add some hardeners! then the afterburner should work, and it can be cap stable with skills. not knowing your exact skills bit if that is currently cap stable fuel conservation to 4 should make it cap stable with the ab on. or you can just use the ab to get to range and then turn it off. oh and don't forget drones! 5x warrior IIs are awesome for angels and spider drones. and also some Valkyrie or hammerhead drones for when all the frigs are dead. [Machariel, Machi] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Songbird	Posted - 2010.03.18 19:42:00 - [11] I don't have t2 large guns but I do have the gallente BS skill trained. I can do most missions with ease, but my fit is pretty damn expensive. Lows: 3 tracking enhancer 2s 4 republic fleet gyros mids: 2 CN invulnerability fields 1 mission specific shield hardener 1 gist x-type large shield booster 1 CN shield boost amplifier Hihgs: 7 "Scout" 800mm ACs(put T2 when you have the skill or republic fleet if you have money to burn) 1 drone link augmenter Dronebay: (125 m^3 space 100mbit/s bandwidth) 4 sentry drones(use large if you don't have sentry yet) 5 light drones. Rigs: 3 X CCC you are not cap stable but by the time you run out of cap everything is dead The ship is simply amazing - it can hit cruisers at 5km, frigs at 15(ish ) and BS at point blank, RoF (with my skills) is 3.3 secs. The best kill time of a bs that I had was in damsel 13.3s - 4 shots for one of those merc BSs. my faloff is 70 km (only use the short range ammo to get max damage) My targeting range is the same as my faloff. The biggest danger with the ship is that the missions will get dull after a while, the hardest thing in the mission becomes the looting and salvaging (which you said you don't do)
Aqriue	Posted - 2010.03.18 20:21:00 - [12] Quote: - I do missions mainly for LP to get faction stuff. - I do not salvage / just LP! You should salvage the bigger missions and in particular some like AE4 (35+ alloyed trit bars if your lucky!) at least every couple of missions. A meta 4 1600mm plate can net another 3-4 million, 2-4 100mn MW drives and a couple large BS sized guns net you another 5 million. I usually salvage AE4 (best salvage!) and Damsel 4 or Gone Berserk 4 because its easy to tank if you manage the triggers and the loot will usually end up in a small 30km sphere though Berserk/Damsel has crap salvage which I am saving to refine and turn that scrap metal into ammo later
Strakar Kaltjager	Posted - 2010.03.20 05:20:00 - [13] Are hobgoblins enough to handle all frigs or do you need warriors? I want to run a mach out for missions after I run through all of them with my domi as a refresher (been out for 2 years) I'm not rich enough to be happy about losing it but got 35 mil SP. I want a healthy tank so leaning toward the XL booster as opposed to max DPS--it runs for like 7 min without the AB on. I don't remember much about the aggroing groups but I'd like to just move through and mow stuff down quickly with ACs. I'm thinking of a fit like: 3x Gyro II or RF 3x TE II or RF 1x DCU II 1x Gist C-type XL 1x CN Invul 2x Rat specific 1x RF AB 7x 800m Auto II 1x whatever 3x CCC 4x Heavy 5x hob or warrior
Taua Roqa Minmatar Woe Hole	Posted - 2010.03.20 07:44:00 - [14] i want a mach so hard >_<
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.20 09:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton you have the macha, use it! 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L [empty high slot] Did you just seriously post that, not in a "I'm drunk, I didn't know what I was saying" manner?
Ernesto DaSilva	Posted - 2010.03.20 11:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 20/03/2010 11:45:39 Originally by: Strakar Kaltjager Are hobgoblins enough to handle all frigs or do you need warriors? I want to run a mach out for missions after I run through all of them with my domi as a refresher (been out for 2 years) I'm not rich enough to be happy about losing it but got 35 mil SP. I want a healthy tank so leaning toward the XL booster as opposed to max DPS--it runs for like 7 min without the AB on. I don't remember much about the aggroing groups but I'd like to just move through and mow stuff down quickly with ACs. I'm thinking of a fit like: 3x Gyro II or RF 3x TE II or RF 1x DCU II 1x Gist C-type XL 1x CN Invul 2x Rat specific 1x RF AB 7x 800m Auto II 1x whatever 3x CCC 4x Heavy 5x hob or warrior That's pretty much my setup (except a 4th Gyro instead of DCU, Pith B XL SB instead, and sentries instead of heavies). And I'm mowing through everything with it (that's lvl4's for Minmatar corp). I'm swapping drones to rat-specific. Most times frigs don't even reach me because one of my two weapon groups made short work of them during approach. But those frigs which tend to pass my guns are most often those with which even my rat-specific light drones have slight trouble = taking some time to chew them down. So if you want to be on the safe side, I'd advise you to go with rat specific light drones at least until you got the hang of it (again). edit: btw, don't see how a XL SB is opposed to max dps?
Kyalena	Posted - 2010.03.21 11:48:00 - [17] i'm running L4s in a Mach with great success and enjoyment as a 8 mil SP pilot. Highs: 7x 800mm 'scout' artillery 1x heavy meta4 NOS Mids: 1x Invul II 2x Rat Specific Hardeners 1x pith X-type XL Booster 1x RF AB 100mn Lows: 3x RF Gyro 3x TE II 1x PDS II (4th gyro doesnt fit) Rig: 3x CCC I Drones: 5x Hobgoblin II 4x Ogre I Speed and handling of a 'Cane with more dmg than a Vargur - i love it. but bob, you should be very careful or you might lose it and /ragequit
TimMc Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.21 17:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Bob Jan - I only want to fly a Machariel - I only have 3.5M skill points atm cause I just started the game Jesus wept.
Planetary Genocide Gallente White Talon Enterprises New Bastion	Posted - 2010.03.21 23:46:00 - [19] As long as you care about looks, the Maelstrom is the best-looking Minnie battleship. In fact, it's one of the best-looking battleships you'll find (IMO), with the exception of the Megathron. ______________ RAWRRR
The Renner	Posted - 2010.03.22 00:21:00 - [20] Something like this maybe: [Machariel, mach mission 2] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Ogre I x4 Hobgoblin I x5 Something like this maybe, shield booster is a bit pricey though. If you are only fighting angels you may want to change drones/hardeners around a bit. I wouldn't use arty on a mach though, with the falloff bonus you shouldn't have much problem hitting those 30-40 km orbiting bs, and you'll have the added bonus of doing far more damage at close range. (not to mention trying to hit something with arty at close range leaves something to be desired.)

Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.03.22 06:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Planetary Genocide As long as you care about looks, the Maelstrom is the best-looking Minnie battleship. In fact, it's one of the best-looking battleships you'll find (IMO), with the exception of the Megathron. Based on looks, Machariel > all. (Based on everything else, it's still pretty far up there.) ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Keilateau Shakor Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.22 09:53:00 - [22] Against angels. Like hot knife through butter. Have AX-2/CX-2/CC8 plugged in. [Machariel, Machariel] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Domination Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery, Fusion L Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Hornet EC-300 x5 Berserker SW-900 x1 Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x5
Ernesto DaSilva	Posted - 2010.03.22 11:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Keilateau Shakor Against angels. Like hot knife through butter. [fitting] - Once your gunnery skills are somewhat decent you don't really need a cap booster on the Mach because everything is dying so fast. - Your collision accel. rig is heavily stacking penalized by the 4 gyros. - Why on earth Dual 650's instead of 800's? [Machariel, Shredder] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster specific Hardener II specific Hardener II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Warrior II x5 Berserker II x4 - The 4th gyro is already heavily stacking penalized, so there's almost no difference between a tech II and a RF as 4th one (EFT says 7 dps). - Swap AB for a TC if you like. - Deadspace shield booster: I think the Mach is simply worth it and a Pith B XL isn't that expensive. On the flip side I think I haven't yet really needed the extra efficiency over a tech II SB. - CN Invul: Again, I think the Mach is worth it but a tech II one would have been enough as well so far. - Why SMC's instead of CCC's? I figured since everything dies really fast, CCC's won't overtake SMC's in total cap supply within that little time. Go with CCC's if you don't trust in that. - Swap heavy drones for sentries or mediums or whatever you like best.
Keilateau Shakor Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.22 12:57:00 - [24] Edited by: Keilateau Shakor on 22/03/2010 12:59:24 Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 22/03/2010 12:38:19 questions You are absolutely right. But honestly, I don't really feel the need to tune this anymore. It's so good it performs brilliantly even without deadspace stuff and with borked rigs edit: Oh yeah, the guns.. Why these? Because I had them and wanted to use them. No other reason, really. And the performance is not that different from T2 800s anyway.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.24 16:17:00 - [25] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 24/03/2010 16:18:01 Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 22/03/2010 12:38:19 Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I ccc will be better. even if eft tells you more cap with smc. irl, ccc way to go.
Ernesto DaSilva	Posted - 2010.03.24 16:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 24/03/2010 16:48:57 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I ccc will be better. even if eft tells you more cap with smc. irl, ccc way to go. I know that CCC's give higher cap regen rate. But if your combat time is short enough, this won't catch up with the inital higher cap of SMC's. Some math (EFT figures): c1: initial cap with smc's = 11026 GJ c2: initial cap with ccc's = 7250 GJ r1: (peak) cap regen rate with smc's = 31.8 GJ/s r2: (peak) cap regen rate with ccc's = 34.1 GJ/s t: time for ccc's to catch up with smc's in total cap supplied (unknown) at time t this holds true: c2 + t * r2 = c1 + t * r1 => t * r2 - t * r1 = c1 - c2 => t * (r2 - r1) = c1 - c2 => t = (c1 - c2) / (r2 - r1) => t = (11026 GJ - 7250 GJ) / (34.1 GJ/s - 31.8 GJ/s) => t = 3776 GJ / 2.3 GJ/s => t = 1641 s => t = 27.4 minutes I know this isn't 100% correct as it assumes that both caps are at peak regen all the time and that combat starts at full cap. But until someone bothers to do this calculation with respect to the actual regen curve or shows me an even more fundamental flaw, I think I'm save to assume that I'm better off with SMC's for fights that last about 10 minutes (which for most mission pockets is already more than actually needed).
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2010.03.24 17:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Bob Jan Wich fit would you recommend for a Maelstrom? Taking into account the items I have. As an alternative to the usual arty fits I would recommend trying an autocannon fit if you fly against angels. You will get much higher DPS and about enough range if you use ambit extension rigs and 2-3 tracking enhancers. After the projectile boost in Dominion this shouldn't be neglected. [Maelstrom, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Large Projectile Burst Aerator I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I I'd fit it like this, downgrade all mods to named which you can't use yet. If you aren't too lazy to load some cap boosters after a mission, this fitting provides you with excellent DPS (over 800 in my case from guns alone). You could use this ship while bringing up your skills and learning the missions. As already said by many, I wouldn't fly the Machariel until you know about triggers and avoiding room aggro as well as some basic maneuvring. The Machariel avoids damage by speedtanking and its firepower, it can't tank huge amounts of damage over time. If you screw up- which will inevitably happen if you are new- you will lose tons of money. Oh and having the skills to use T2 drones is necessary in my opinion. Sometimes you will need to warp out and you will need drones that can bring down the scrambling frigates fast.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.24 18:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 24/03/2010 17:13:57 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I ccc will be better. even if eft tells you more cap with smc. irl, ccc way to go. I know that CCC's give higher cap regen rate. But if your combat time is short enough, this won't catch up with the inital higher cap of SMC's. Some math (EFT figures): c1: initial cap with smc's = 11026 GJ c2: initial cap with ccc's = 7250 GJ r1: (peak) cap regen rate with smc's = 31.8 GJ/s r2: (peak) cap regen rate with ccc's = 34.1 GJ/s t: time for ccc's to catch up with smc's in total cap supplied (unknown) at time t this holds true: c2 + t * r2 = c1 + t * r1 => t * r2 - t * r1 = c1 - c2 => t * (r2 - r1) = c1 - c2 => t = (c1 - c2) / (r2 - r1) => t = (11026 GJ - 7250 GJ) / (34.1 GJ/s - 31.8 GJ/s) => t = 3776 GJ / 2.3 GJ/s => t = 1641 s => t = 27.4 minutes I know this isn't 100% correct as it assumes that both caps are at peak regen all the time and that combat starts at full cap. But until someone bothers to do this calculation with respect to the actual regen curve or shows me an even more fundamental flaw, I think I'm save to assume that I'm better off with SMC's for fights that last about 10 minutes (which for most mission pockets is already more than actually needed). The difference is that with smc's after 2 min. of running your pith you're out of cap. When you're out of cap your hardeners shut off. While using ccc's and you run out. Then, your hardeners wont shut off. In game exp., not eft bs that we all know means nothing in game. Only time I use smc fit is on an armor tank using a cap booster instead of cap rech.
Ernesto DaSilva	Posted - 2010.03.24 19:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac The difference is that with smc's after 2 min. of running your pith you're out of cap. When you're out of cap your hardeners shut off. True... but - I haven't yet found any mission where I had to perma run the SB for 2 minutes - if my shields are down and I have no cap for my SB, I gain next to nothing from still running hardeners - if my shields are not yet down but cap is crossing peak recharge and situation isn't clearing up I will initiate GTFO before cap-out I don't intend to say your points are crap, but this is my experience. Please feel free to show me where I'm wrong. Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Only time I use smc fit is on an armor tank using a cap booster instead of cap rech. I honestly fail to see the point of smc+cap booster. Please explain.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.24 20:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Only time I use smc fit is on an armor tank using a cap booster instead of cap rech. I honestly fail to see the point of smc+cap booster. Please explain. I oftem mission in low sec. Cap booster gives much needed protection from neuts/ganked. I also fit web and scram. This is as I said an armor tank ship(amarr), not the mach. 1 xtra min. of initial cap is fail for running missions. Trust me. Good only for low sec. protection from neuts, bait or surprised.

Bob Jan	Posted - 2010.03.26 00:36:00 - [31] Edited by: Bob Jan on 26/03/2010 00:36:40 Well most people were right. Do not fly a ship that you can't afford to lose and/or dont fly a ship when you have to low sp for it to fly. Level 4 missions were easy, never ever had any problems with the level 4 mission I was doing. But I still had the "KILL ME" sign above my head. I was in a newly formed corp for about 2 months now. And about two weeks ago 3 new people joined. After getting to know some of them better, one of them asked me to do some level 4 missions with him. I bet you guys know where this is going So after forming a fleet and meeting up he quickly scrambled and webbed me. inviting some friends into the fleet and just a few mintus later I was podkilled. lose for me: almost everything 1.5B ISK pentaly for them: nada nothing not even kill rights for me. Flying a tempest now doing missions and all and still loving it. Had to learn it the hard way. Bob Jan
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.26 01:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Bob Jan Edited by: Bob Jan on 26/03/2010 00:36:40 Well most people were right. Do not fly a ship that you can't afford to lose and/or dont fly a ship when you have to low sp for it to fly. Level 4 missions were easy, never ever had any problems with the level 4 mission I was doing. But I still had the "KILL ME" sign above my head. I was in a newly formed corp for about 2 months now. And about two weeks ago 3 new people joined. After getting to know some of them better, one of them asked me to do some level 4 missions with him. I bet you guys know where this is going So after forming a fleet and meeting up he quickly scrambled and webbed me. inviting some friends into the fleet and just a few mintus later I was podkilled. lose for me: almost everything 1.5B ISK pentaly for them: nada nothing not even kill rights for me. Flying a tempest now doing missions and all and still loving it. Had to learn it the hard way. Bob Jan This is reason I don't recruit on my mission alt char. Why ccp doesn't do something to fix problems like this from happening is beyond me.
PabloEscobarII	Posted - 2010.03.26 03:35:00 - [33] Edited by: PabloEscobarII on 26/03/2010 03:36:45 Edited by: PabloEscobarII on 26/03/2010 03:35:51 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Originally by: Bob Jan Edited by: Bob Jan on 26/03/2010 00:36:40 Well most people were right. Do not fly a ship that you can't afford to lose and/or dont fly a ship when you have to low sp for it to fly. Level 4 missions were easy, never ever had any problems with the level 4 mission I was doing. But I still had the "KILL ME" sign above my head. I was in a newly formed corp for about 2 months now. And about two weeks ago 3 new people joined. After getting to know some of them better, one of them asked me to do some level 4 missions with him. I bet you guys know where this is going So after forming a fleet and meeting up he quickly scrambled and webbed me. inviting some friends into the fleet and just a few mintus later I was podkilled. lose for me: almost everything 1.5B ISK pentaly for them: nada nothing not even kill rights for me. Flying a tempest now doing missions and all and still loving it. Had to learn it the hard way. Bob Jan This is reason I don't recruit on my mission alt char. Why ccp doesn't do something to fix problems like this from happening is beyond me. What exactly would you like them to fix?
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.26 04:13:00 - [34] umm, I'm no dev. but, the solution is quite simple. make it so any corp. member in high sec. space get concorded for aggro like everyone else. futhermore, if they wish to brush up on their pvp skills against each other. just add an option so they can. like a switch you turn it off or on.


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