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CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 13:45:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Ogogov
Yes, let's all remember how useful the Proteus is outside of a gank situation.
...
Quit whining, really.
If there's anything to be said about T3 ships it's that the Tengu came out way overpowered compared to the other three. The rest of them all have their niches but as supposedly flexible ships, they are extremely limited in many ways.
I never whine i am having an argument if anything. I couldn't careless if legion ever gets changed in the slightest My aim was to have a convo about the ship and see what uses other members of our great community have come up with for Legion despite it's disability.
I would be very interested in why you think tengu is overpowered if you find the time however :)
have a good day
Calina
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Lt Angus
Caldari
End Game.
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Posted - 2010.03.24 13:53:00 -
[122]
Lol tippia you should probably just give up  you cant make it any more clear for them.
please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 13:55:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Vherr Arkhar
My experience in eve its somewhat like this:
If something doesn't work the way you use it - it's pobably not meant to be used quite that way.
I can agree with that as well, but in a game that offers very little in direction of play and story shouldnt something like the ships also follow suit in the sand box kinda way Eve has pride in ..
I mean making 3 t3's all viable solo ships for 3 nations but then making the 4th nations t3 a fleet support only ship with out much chance at solo play kinda makes things really suck if your the one with the later of the 4.. or if you don't do corp or fleet type stuff in this game.
but like i said that's neither here or there i don't care for a fix for the ship or say there needs to be one just wanted to see what everyone else was useing there ship for and what they thought about it in general
Cheers
calina
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Ailean Nightingale
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Posted - 2010.03.24 13:57:00 -
[124]
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
I think and though i could be wrong proteus, Tengu , loki , can all do at least a 1000 dps in there optimal and i be leave that the later two, have more or as much rng as legion does.
How would you set up a Loki to do that? I don't know much about fitting a Tengu, but I find it quite impossible to get a 1000 dps Loki with more range than a Legion (assuming the figures about Legion are correct here).
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Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:06:00 -
[125]
well, let me see.
The Tengu is the only T3 cruiser you can use for exploration, plex running (including wormhole sites) due to its shield tank and the fact it relies on missiles rather than blasters/drones for its damage output.
The Proteus is reliant on blasters to get decent DPS and the range and damage output on medium railguns is to utterly pathetic as to make them useless. Sleeper AI preferentially targets drones, making them a very poor choice for WH combat. Additionally the Proteus, being an armor tanker is just like the sleepers, meaning a WH in which you'd want to find weaker sleepers will also adversely affect your own ships performance.
The Legion, by contrast, can at least hit out to a decent range doing better DPS than the Proteus.
Not all that familiar with the Loki but afaik with the autocannon buff it can't be all that bad.
So, there you go. The Rationale for being OP being that one ship out of three is insanely flexible with very little changes needed in terms of subsystems. The Proteus is limited to one niche - ganking, and the Legion is less worse off in many tactical situations because of the far greater flexibility and engagement envelope of lasers.
But since all you're paying attention to is EFT it's unsurprising you didn't notice any of this.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:14:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/03/2010 14:15:55
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
legion gets a fraction of the dps the other t3's have and mediocre tank.
75% the damage and 75% the tank. Hardly "a fraction" and "mediocre".
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this is the ships plan text stats , how much dmg they can do , how much tank they have how much cap they have and what rng there weapons have.
this is all i was ever comparing
Actually, no. You were only comparing raw DPS and tank, and you were only comparing with the Proteus, thus biasing your results.
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I say this Proteus fit can do 1000 dps and have 150k ehp buffer tank .. and the highest dps Legion fit has 660 dps with mediocre buffer tank or active tank.
No. The equivalent Legion does some 750 DPS with a 110k EHP buffer.
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mind this is not a comparison of the ships fighting with some fantasy Eve ship battle of the mind and loads of added things like other ships warping or what can web what etc etc
Actually, that's exactly what you're proposing, by claiming that the quoted DPS is in any way what you'll get out of the ship.
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as they share damn near exact speed
1.2km/s vs. 1.4km/s… so no.
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and Proteus has other useful things like 50% bonus to scramblers etc
and Legion has other useful things like increased neuting etc.
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the only real and main difference the two ships have is there ability to tank and deal DPS as well as what rng they can do this at
Again, range… which completely flips the argument you're making: the Proteus is underpowered.
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now if we go play fantasy footbal with those guys they will have you wrapped up in a scenario of what ifs for eternity
You mean like saying you'll arrive at <2km range against a non-moving target? Yes, that's a fantasy
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these fantasy scenarios they propose to be fact or even relevant to the ships basic stats (which they are not)
No, it's the other way around: the basic stats are not relevant – only how they work in the game.
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the legion fit referenced was able to do 660 dps and has a buffer tank less then 60k ehp or a mediocre active tank of about 375-400 dps and a optimal rang of 25-35 km
No. The comparable Legion does 750 DPS, 125k EHP buffer…
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now this means simply based on the un bias EFT number crunching that proteus at its optimal out dmgs legion greatly at it's optimal.
Again: so what? Shorter optimal range ⇒ higher DPS. Standard fare.
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even if proteus isn't at its optimal it still poses a far Superior tank.
…which it'll need in order to survive the trip in towards its optimal.
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so far there has been everything from other ships warping in to the fantasy fight and saving the legion to the legion couldn't possibly catch the proteus to the Proteus rng
These are your scenarios.
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and is a slow ship compared to the legion (which has no credibility , being both ships are cruisers and are the same size weight and use the same propulsion mods and they are both armor tanked as well)
Again, EFT fail on your part, just like when you failed to fit heat sinks, as well as flawed logic since two ships of the same class can have vastly different performance in terms of speed.
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so you can't make a comparison of the two ships in a fantasy form
So why are you doing it?
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the legion however can not push out impressive dps numbers and has a far less impressive tank then the other 3 T3 ships
Disproven. And you haven't actually proven anything about the Loki or Tengu either…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:21:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Ogogov
well, let me see.
The Tengu is the only T3 cruiser you can use for exploration, plex running (including wormhole sites) due to its shield tank and the fact it relies on missiles rather than blasters/drones for its damage output.
The Proteus is reliant on blasters to get decent DPS and the range and damage output on medium railguns is to utterly pathetic as to make them useless. Sleeper AI preferentially targets drones, making them a very poor choice for WH combat. Additionally the Proteus, being an armor tanker is just like the sleepers, meaning a WH in which you'd want to find weaker sleepers will also adversely affect your own ships performance.
The Legion, by contrast, can at least hit out to a decent range doing better DPS than the Proteus.
Not all that familiar with the Loki but afaik with the autocannon buff it can't be all that bad.
So, there you go. The Rationale for being OP being that one ship out of three is insanely flexible with very little changes needed in terms of subsystems. The Proteus is limited to one niche - ganking, and the Legion is less worse off in many tactical situations because of the far greater flexibility and engagement envelope of lasers.
But since all you're paying attention to is EFT it's unsurprising you didn't notice any of this.
actually I agree completely and noticed ^^ my argument was that Legion DPS and tank were much lower then the other t3 and that proteus could produce higher dps in its optimal rng by far the the legion could in it's optimal rng.. and I am right. the extra rng is nice for legion and given a good pilot maybe able to over come a ship capable of more DPS and tank. but I simply said that that would not be a fair judge of the base stats of the ships but rather a judge at how well a pilot could fly them and that of course the longer rng energy turrets on legion could do 660 dps at there optimal rng but that was still relatively low vrs the proteus at its optimal rng. and either choice in close or long rng weapons was a personal preference I would personally rather fight close rng doing much higher dps and others might would rather fight at a distance doing lower dps.
Cheers and thank you for a more then decent explanation of your thoughts on the ships and there abilitys
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:30:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/03/2010 14:36:03
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
actually I agree completely and noticed ^^ my argument was that Legion DPS and tank were much lower then the other t3 and that proteus could produce higher dps in its optimal rng by far the the legion could in it's optimal rng.. and I am right.
And my argument is that it doesn't matter, because that optimal range is so short that the increased damage doesn't quite make up for that shortfall. Again, you gain 33% increase in damage for a 75% loss of range. You gain a 33% increase in tank for a 15% loss of speed and a 14% increase in signature (that's a 30% bonus to the difficulty of tracking the thing, fyi).
A good pilot will not "maybe [be] able to overcome" that difference – he will be able to take advantage of it and utterly slaughter the Proteus if he gets the same kinds of advantages that you bestow on the Proteus pilot in your scenario.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:16:00 -
[129]
1 25% less on two the to stats that determine how much your ship can take and how much it can deal out is a big difference and at 660 dps for the legion 1000 dps for Proteus then you actually at 44% difference in Dps..
2 No i compared t3 for over the past month, I only mentioned Proteus as an example in my original post
but i also compared the ship totally and utterly with a great deal of time and effort.
Try to keep up..
3 oh so now you have a new legion fit that does 750dps ? (some how i doubt this seriously)
4 the quoted DPS is exactly what you will get out of the ship should you be in optimal rng
5 the speed is only relevant based on the individual fits (like every other stat) If i choose not to fit armor plates on Proteus or i decided on different faction afterburners or MWD this could be wildly varied
and Proteus could still still manage impressive tank ^^ but you claim it as its fact but have yet to provide a single fit showing such , but i would imagine if the solar wind was blowing in legions favor ...
6 yeah it does but sadly that isn't included in your nifty top of the line legion fit now is it ? and if it were then it definitely wouldn't be getting 660 dps lol
7 no because rng is something that will be dictated by circumstance or pilot ability.. I have fought pilots who didn't even seem to know they had a optimal rng lol is purely pilot ability to fly and operate a ship.
8 lol if you say so I however have done it on the majority of my kills , this comes back to player ability. obviously though since you can not do it it must not be possible..
9 lol the stats aren't relevant and you just brush them off and go with how you think things work then?
wow the eve community will be shocked to death to find all this time EFT has been lying to us.. O.o
10 ok now you gotta a whole new legion fit you introduced as the "Comparable legion fit" when did you share this fit with everyone else in the argument ? being i stated over and over again if you had a better fit then show it and i would re evaluate .. but you failed to do so and now your listing it as common knowledge as if you did. the last fit you introduced was a 660 dps legion just to bring you up to speed.. (and i highly doubt you have a legion fit that does 750 dps as stated before) and i know you don't got one that will do that dmg at 25-35 km or at least i would be very surprised ^^
11 this is my point, proteus can do a 1000 dps and legion can not..
12 notice it wasn't denied that time though ^^ and also that is circumstantial because now your assuming it has to get in rng of legion while legion is already in its optimal shooting <--- and this is Fantasy
it could just as easily be the other way around depending on the pilots ability.
13 No they are not my scenarios ^^
14 I never failed to fit heat sinks on any ship I was basing my comments on the original fit mentioned and you never once and still have not supplied a full legion fit for evaluation you were only naming off numbers i had to work out for myself you were using a different fit for comparison and then further had to work out what that fit was at you in ability to supply such relevant information or where it could be located.
15 i am basing stats of exact calculations made with the same equations the game uses to calculate such
only to someone like you would those stats be called fantasy, and then you would proceed to imagine a virtual ship fight as proof of ability. ^^
16 you have yet to disprove legion can do more then 660 dps and that's not impressive lol and further more I don't really now and never really felt or had a reason to provide any fit for tengu legion loki or Proteus outside of the ones were arguing about specifically , these things are fairly common knowledge.
~ continued on next post as soon as it lets me post again.
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CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:28:00 -
[130]
Now I have suffered you boorish bull**** once again and I will ask this time that if you copy or quote anything i have written then you should be fair about it and quote the entire statement.
your taking half statements and posting them as if they were a statement and making something appear as if i said things that clearly would had clarified with the rest of the quote had you included it.
let me chalk up what your saying
EFT = false information and that legion will always be in the better position to win a fight and is a much better ship because longer rng turrets are Superior , because of course Proteus could never ever get into rng to apply its DPS effectively and the imagination is the limit of Legions ability to hunt down and kill all the other t3 ships at will.
that about chalk up your prospective ?
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:46:00 -
[131]
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
1 25% less on two the to stats that determine how much your ship can take and how much it can deal out is a big difference and at 660 dps for the legion 1000 dps for Proteus then you actually at 44% difference in Dps.
Yes, but it's not 660 DPS – it's 750, if you use the equivalent tricks required to get the Proteus to 1k. If you want to use the 660 DPS figure, then the Proteus likewise get downgraded to 900k, and we arrive at the same ratio.
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3 oh so now you have a new legion fit that does 750dps ? (some how i doubt this seriously)
It has for a long time – keep up. As for you doubting it, who cares – you doubted the first number because you failed to fit something as obvious as heat sinks, even though this was pointed out to you over and over again. If you can't figure out how we got to this number, you've disqualified yourself once again from using EFT as a basis for your arguments.
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4 the quoted DPS is exactly what you will get out of the ship should you be in optimal rng
Incorrect. Tracking would like a word with you… and even if tracking was not an issue, you'd still be wrong but for a different reason. Do you know why?
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5 the speed is only relevant based on the individual fits (like every other stat)
Which is why I've been using as close as possible the exact same setup for both ships. Keep up.
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6 yeah it does but sadly that isn't included in your nifty top of the line legion fit now is it ?
Actually, yes, since it doesn't affect the DPS. Oh, and if it weren't you'd be seeing far more EHP.
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7 no because rng is something that will be dictated by circumstance or pilot ability..
Exactly, so you can't say that the Proteus does 1k DPS, because that's dictated by cirumstance and pilot ability. It works both ways, you know.
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9 lol the stats aren't relevant and you just brush them off and go with how you think things work then?
They get mixed into hit and damage calculations that spit out a multiplier to your damage based on range, movement, and the opponent stats – you know, that "secnario" thing you so hate. On their own, they tell you nothing.
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10 ok now you gotta a whole new legion fit you introduced as the "Comparable legion fit"
Nope. It's been the same all along – tit-for-tat with your Proteus fit. Do keep up.
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11 this is my point, proteus can do a 1000 dps and legion can not..
…which is entirely irrelevant, because DPS does not exist in a vacuum – it has to be applied, and the Legion can apply its DPS far more easily.
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it could just as easily be the other way around depending on the pilots ability.
Exactly. It can always be the other way around, but you refuse to accept that this can happen for the Legion, and based on this, you refuse to accept that the Legion can have an enormous edge over the Proteus.
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13 No they are not my scenarios ^^
Incorrect.
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14 I never failed to fit heat sinks on any ship I was basing my comments on the original fit mentioned
Incorrect, see post #44 and #45. Me: "6+ Heavy Pulse II w/ Navy MF + 3+ Navy Heat sinks = 654 DPS"; you: "1st That gives 366 DPS on legion In EFT", which came around because you failed to include the heat sinks.
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15 i am basing stats of exact calculations made with the same equations the game uses to calculate such
only to someone like you would those stats be called fantasy
Your numbers assume <2km against a non-moving target and you consistently provide inaccurate numbers. That's a fantasy.
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16 you have yet to disprove legion can do more then 660 dps
Why would I? I've proven that they can several pages ago – it's up to you to disprove it.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:48:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 24/03/2010 14:36:03
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
actually I agree completely and noticed ^^ my argument was that Legion DPS and tank were much lower then the other t3 and that proteus could produce higher dps in its optimal rng by far the the legion could in it's optimal rng.. and I am right.
And my argument is that it doesn't matter, because that optimal range is so short that the increased damage doesn't quite make up for that shortfall. Again, you gain 33% increase in damage for a 75% loss of range. You gain a 33% increase in tank for a 15% loss of speed and a 14% increase in signature (that's a 30% bonus to the difficulty of tracking the thing, fyi).
A good pilot will not "maybe [be] able to overcome" that difference û he will be able to take advantage of it and utterly slaughter the Proteus if he gets the same kinds of advantages that you bestow on the Proteus pilot in your scenario.
this is again basing all these stats on a fit only you have. and it does matter if the situation was the other way around and the proteus was in optimal rng.
and now your also comparing gains vrs loses on stats that purely self preference , you may rather have the rng with legion i would rather have the ability to break a BC or other t2 active tank so i could actually kill it , I would also rather have the tank over the speed wanting to be able to take as much DPS as i could once the fight engaged. personal preference I have done ok with my play stlye I have won a considerable more fights then i lost.
and for the last god damn time I do not have a scenario. I have eft fit comparison. in which I based both ships off what EFT said they can do. <--- that is not a ****ing scenario. anything i even mentioned in a scenario was in reply to a mentioned scenario.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:51:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/03/2010 15:52:37
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
I will ask this time that if you copy or quote anything i have written then you should be fair about it and quote the entire statement.
Nope. I quote what is relevant – don't be so long-winded.
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let me chalk up what your saying
EFT = false information
Incorrect. I'm saying EFT = incomplete information that requires a scenario to have any sense.
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that legion will always be in the better position to win a fight and is a much better ship because longer rng turrets are Superior
Incorrect. I'm saying that the Legion has an edge it can take advantage of to surprise-sex the Proteus, just like the Proteus has an edge that it can take advantage of to surprise-sex the Legion. I'm also saying that you refuse to believe this because you want to compare numbers that have no meaning outside a given scenario – or, more accurately, you refuse to use scenarios that give the numbers any meaning.
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that about chalk up your prospective ?
Not even close.
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and for the last god damn time I do not have a scenario. I have eft fit comparison. in which I based both ships off what EFT said they can do. <--- that is not a ****ing scenario. anything i even mentioned in a scenario was in reply to a mentioned scenario.
Incorrect. It is the scenario where the Proteus and Legion both sit completely still within 2km from each other. Only then do your numbers become actualised.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:57:00 -
[134]
amarr is 1,2,3,4 and 5
gall is A,B,C,D and E
there are 5 types, of each, and each type is better than the one that proceeded it.
You cannot compare 5 and E directly, but you can compare them to the previous because they are of the same type.
a baster boat can be compared to another blaster boat, if you compare lasers to blasters you are comparing the weapons NOT the ships that use them.
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piecakes's brother
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:14:00 -
[135]
These threads **** me off so much.... First off I fly both a Tengu and a Legion. I spend a lot of time in eft coming up with fits for different ships. Not only do I spend the time to come up with great fits I actaully fit them and use them... So when I hear that the legion is under powered it ****es me off so bad. My legion fit has been tested in real combat and comes out looking like a champ every time. Yes the Tengu is easy fit and hard to F up. Legion you have to put more thought into it and realize what it was intended for and how it was intended to be used. If you fly tech 3 ships you should have hopefully realized that different races take different roles. No a legion is not a drake. It was never intended to be like one... You sir are Fail and let me know where you hang out cause I love to pop those fail fit ships and and have a laugh on my killboard..(you know the ones where a raven is fitted with small lasers) 
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CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:34:00 -
[136]
lol I provided a resource and and place to find the original fit I based comparison off of.. I also refitted to your mentioned fit from there and have also said several times before if you have a better fit
then post it so we could both argue the same thing. instead you choose to keep arguing a point with out updating me to the fact that you changed fits entirely. or made changes to a previous fit witch change the ships ability's two people can not argue a point about a single fit if they both have different fits.
I am completely blown away with your inability to see that and with on the larger portion an entirely wasted argument , being you knew i did not have the new fit and that yet you still argued points as if i did. while was clearly basing my point on the other fit. changing the fit change the stats changes the ability of the ship and changes opinions and could had also changed the course of the argument. but mostly your ability to not supply something as crucial as this in an argument really makes for a waist of time. 750 dps is alot better for legion .. if the rest of the fit still holds up and is decent then Legion would be in a comparably better situation , still not grand or great but better.
I am not going to argue this any farther being i really have no idea what your looking at on your end and i also feel it was unfair to argue a fit's stats with a fit only you have as well as a tremendous waist of both of our time.
and to boot I am sick of the run around i say yes you say no and we been going back and fourth all night and still end up at the same ****ing place
you mentioned changed subsystem for neut one and also the "trick" Proteus uses for 1000 dps but your comparing speed signature radius and everything else you can pull out your hat so yeah maybe i can get 750 dps but we are obviously not fitting the same modules for speed and tank either.
its 12:30 pm and im going to bed **** this BS for now will try and make since of it when i wake
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:46:00 -
[137]
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
I also refitted to your mentioned fit from there and have also said several times before if you have a better fit then post it so we could both argue the same thing.
Apart from the fact that I found that there was plenty of room for a neut, nothing has changed.
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instead you choose to keep arguing a point with out updating me to the fact that you changed fits entirely.
Where did this happen, do you feel?
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750 dps is alot better for legion .. if the rest of the fit still holds up and is decent then Legion would be in a comparably better situation , still not grand or great but better.
That's what was presented back on page 2, you know… it hasn't change since.
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you mentioned changed subsystem for neut one and also the "trick" Proteus uses for 1000 dps but your comparing speed signature radius and everything else you can pull out your hat so yeah maybe i can get 750 dps but we are obviously not fitting the same modules for speed and tank either.
Sigh… tit for tat. You fit the ewar subsystem, I fit the ewar subsystem. You use x,y,z modules, I use x,y,z modules. You use the heaviest-hitting combo of weapons, I use the heaviest-hitting combo of weapons (only lasers). You use implants, I use implants. Again, this was explained back on page 2 and hasn't change since.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:48:00 -
[138]
stop arguing !!!!!
he is right!!! the proteus will always be at it's optimal and pwn ****!!!!
the diemost is the best hac!
the astarte the best command ship!!!
nothing else to see!!!
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:48:00 -
[139]
Originally by: CalinaNightCyn
its 12:30 pm and im going to bed **** this BS for now will try and make since of it when i wake
Why are you going to bed at lunchtime?
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CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:48:00 -
[140]
Originally by: piecakes's brother
These threads **** me off so much.... First off I fly both a Tengu and a Legion. I spend a lot of time in eft coming up with fits for different ships. Not only do I spend the time to come up with great fits I actaully fit them and use them... So when I hear that the legion is under powered it ****es me off so bad. My legion fit has been tested in real combat and comes out looking like a champ every time. Yes the Tengu is easy fit and hard to F up. Legion you have to put more thought into it and realize what it was intended for and how it was intended to be used. If you fly tech 3 ships you should have hopefully realized that different races take different roles. No a legion is not a drake. It was never intended to be like one... You sir are Fail and let me know where you hang out cause I love to pop those fail fit ships and and have a laugh on my killboard..(you know the ones where a raven is fitted with small lasers)
you assume to much ^^ I never said i fitted a legion like a drake only that the legion fit could do the same thing as a drake and that was solo c3 wormhole which is a fairly common task for legion to do ^^
and for a game to say here is a modular ship that can be fitted in diffrent way to have a "specific use"
is kinda lame.. but thats just my personal feelings about things.
at any rate is good to hear you are successful with your Legion etc I hope you the best etc
maybe one day someone will stop saying "when you realize Legion has a specific role" and actually mention what they think that role is lol
everytime I hit post on one reply someone else has said something ; ;
going to bed hopefully this time or i fear i may not make it otherwise lol
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:53:00 -
[141]
KITING IS A F:UCKING ROLE YOU RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE:TARD.
there are several ships built around kiting and the legion is one of them. You kiiiite the **** out of stuff while appling 650 steady dps. And if some ship manages to scram you bonused neuts will have a word with it.
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Belkadan
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:57:00 -
[142]
Like.....talking....to....a.....wall........
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Keziah Mason
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Posted - 2010.03.24 17:15:00 -
[143]
let's all play Proteus-online at 2km optimal with 1k dps or 340k buffer
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Kail Storm
Caldari
Fear Th3 Vampires
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Posted - 2010.03.24 17:33:00 -
[144]
Calina the question is not RNG VS RNG but what has better range "buffer" while yes the 1k DPS of the Prot is possible it has a way way way smaller window of oppurtunity to reach that DPS, where as the Legion has over 4x the optimal....This means Pilot V pilot of equal measure the Legion will be in optimal 4 times as much.
Basically the Prot depends that your gonna be in Knife fight range, it also assumes betwee to ships that it will have to stay there and fight...So in the real world of EVE this means another ship can and will kite the proteus, and while it chases hi maround his gang is coming.
Basically the Prot is a gamble of a ship, great Melting DPS at its very narrow Optimal means you run your ships at 2km-5km and hope you can kill them before help arrives, if there help comes your out a 700 mil ship.
The legion Can stay at the fringes of the single point range so it only has to escape or overheat his Point to be able to GTFO.
--------------------------------------------------
"If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed"
-Me
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Majuan Shuo
Sons Of 0din
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Posted - 2010.03.24 19:35:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 24/03/2010 19:37:35
[Proteus, Big thick ****]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit
Shaqil's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Shaqil's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Draclira's Modified Armor Explosive Hardener
Corelum A-Type 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Domination Warp Scrambler
Domination Stasis Webifier
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
GIANT. FLYING. PINATAS.
WEEEEEEEEEEEHOOHOOHOO!!!
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Professional Retard
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Posted - 2010.03.24 20:10:00 -
[146]
neuting legion with ac's and drones looks neat
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Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2010.03.24 22:10:00 -
[147]
Calina, have you tried out the Legion on the test server?
Many people who use ships for pvp try their setups out on there,
since losing a ship on the test server means nothing - you can just replace it.
If you do decide to try the legion on the test server, let me recommend the FFA.
You get more info about the test server here: Test Server Feedback
Be sure to read the stickies before you install.
Good luck.
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CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.25 02:47:00 -
[148]
clearly in this thread we went from 660 (you as well, which is clear to anyone reading back on this) to 750 dps and that doesn't happen with changing the subsystem to use a neut, you also have completely different speed , sig and armor numbers and that also clearly doesn't happen with only a subsystem change..
and ****ing lastly you whole concept is that you can dictate a fight based purely on rng and no actual power of the ship. but then you throw stupid **** out here like Legion doing 750DPS <-- close to that sure .. but your forgetting your own ****ing argument being that you fail to mention that when this legion is doing 750ish DPS it has 10km rng ; ; so now you have effectively lost your ability to kite being you are more then with in web rng etc
and you still have not provided a fit for what ever other reason for the sake of argument.
the simple change you suggest does not add up to the percentages you have supplied
and further more lets not forget your looking at a complete proteus fit and then refitting legion to handle it..
any player with half a mind can build a counter fit for another ship by being able to view the exact fit and stats making a plan to be able to take it and then fitting with what is needed to do the job.
this is likewise unrealistic, but just as you have done it, given your legion fit I feel i could easily build Proteus to be able to nullify your "Kiting ability and speed" and after 3 ****ing days of doing just that against the Proteus For supplied the best you managed was "Legion can kite proteus to death and does 750 dps with these armor speed % etc etc) and you can't kite at 10km , lets not forget further that legion has no ****ing way to dictate rng it has no extended web rng it has no way of keeping a ship from approaching it's only hope is to run away or chase, not to mention that this whole time your kiting proteus and shooting out of its optimal rng you have to maintain your MWD and your Weapons, and with this strategy and the 600ish dps you maybe doing your going to be at this for along time, with about 1 minute worth of cap. (which is about even with the proteus cap) except a good proteus will be using cap to get in rng and not firing until then. while you will be trying to maintain rng with MWD and shooting to kill the shp at the same time <--- guns take cap and thats a big difference when your working with a minute and a half or so of cap trying to kit a ship with a massive ****ing buffer tank ..
and further more this is all completely based on where the ships were at the start of the fight.
in your ideal situation the proteus would be at your optimal rng and you could kit from there.
but thats not a realistic situation being it could easily be the other way around if the proteus pilot
is any good or is the one launching the attack..
your circumstantial still even after spending 3 days trying to build a fit to take a specific random fit for Proteus that was grabbed off of Battleclinic as a comparison , you would still have to have a lot of ideal situations to win this fight.
My own proteus fit does 1081 dps has a buffer tank of 115k and has more then enough speed to deal with a kiting Legion.. and i have other fits saved for proteus that go much faster with a a loss to DPS and small
loss to tank are even cap stable, and that DPS still being around 800 dps and the buffer tank still being respectable.
and a covert fit for proteus that does about 500 dps .. you got one fit for legion that does 750 dps at 10 km and not really much else , and my argument is that the other t3 ships are better then the legion they are more diverse do more dmg in every form (even covert ops) and are all around better ships
my point is clearly you can't view a proteus fit , see its weakness and then build your legion to handle those weakness and claim you have a superior ship, even a weaker ship can take a stronger ship if it has exactly what it needs to dictate the fight.
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.03.25 03:00:00 -
[149]
so depending on the circumstances either ship can beat the crap out of the other one?
HOLY CRAP thats exactly what we are trying to tell you while you insist that the legion is underpowered and not able to solo stuf because the dps figure is smaller
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CalinaNightCyn
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Posted - 2010.03.25 03:07:00 -
[150]
this is going nowhere and is ****ing lame was tired of it yesterday and though i hate to walk away from a fight , there is no fight if we are not on the same page , we obviously both have the same Proteus fit
but the legion fit i have to compare against is not the one you have if the State % are indeed what you listed. and further more you continue to base your fits on speculation of what the pilot may or may not do which is and never was the argument to begin with.
so in short, yes , a good pilot can win a fight in a weak ship against a stronger one, with a little luck and a lot of skill.
and his chances increase dramatically if the said pilot can see the ship fit prior to the fight and refit to play to its weakness.
^^ cheers you proved a point
and that was not the point to begin with with,
for the record it was that , Legion is considerably underpowered compared to the other 3 t3's
and after 3 days i really have had enough of this thread, I kinda wanna actually play the game some also
Meh~
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