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Aylin Aslim
Stargate Systems Zombie Ninja Space Bears
1
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Posted - 2012.07.05 08:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
There has been lots of tweaks concerning supercapitals. Like all buffs&nerf CCP has done before, these tweaks comes and goes in between being overpowered or useless.
When we inspect a similar case ( not that similar but will be explained ) in subcaps, we found out there is a solution ( an unexpected one but yes, its a solution ) for this problem.
Battleships,
We have a wide variaty of battleships which can excel in multiple roles. However, they are not a dreadful power due to a couple of reasons. One of them is Stealth bombers.
Stealth bombers are being used to vaporate bs fleets without outblobling them.
With the same analogy we can solve the titan problem.
- Stealth BS sized bombers. ( We can even use Black ops ships ).
* Can fit Citadel sized torpedoes with huge dmg bonus ( not on par with sieged dreds ) with huge explosion radius which deals a small amount of damage everyship except supercapitals. * Can fit cov ops cloak * Can use Citadel Bombs, which acts like normal bombs but affective on supercapitals ( huge explosion radius again ). * no tank, poor ressists.
Your comments please. |
Goti fase
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aylin Aslim wrote:* Can fit Citadel sized torpedoes with huge dmg bonus ( not on par with sieged dreds ) with huge explosion radius which deals a small amount of damage everyship except supercapitals.
+1 I like the idea. I think there would have to be a restriction on how easy it would be to turn this ship on sub-cap vessels though. I can see a vessel like this being capable of one-shotting a BS which would be ridiculous, even if the torp doesn't actually hit the said BS due to the huge explosion radius.
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Aylin Aslim
Stargate Systems Zombie Ninja Space Bears
3
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Same case as stealth bombers. A stealth bomber cannot deal massive damage on a frigate, even painted + webbed. High explosion radius should solve the problem |
Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
15
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Posted - 2012.07.05 14:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Citadel Bombs sound like something that will never be balanced properly.
Black Ops BS getting a role apart from SB cyno is a good idea |
Luc Arbosa
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
2
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Posted - 2012.07.05 17:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think this would actually be a better role for a battlecruiser-size ship, since they still need some agility to be able to escape from supercap escort vessels. Also, as yet there are no BC-sized covops. This also might be a use case for a spinal-mount weapon; rather than solve the issue with explosion radius, solve it with movement mechanics -- anything smaller than a supercap would simply move out of the way. |
Danel Tosh
EVE Protection Agency Intrepid Crossing
27
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Posted - 2012.07.05 18:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
anything to buff black ops +1
Im not entirely shure but I think the BS models would have to be changed to support the citedel launchers. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
955
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
This would be cool, and not too OP, since an AB BS could speed tank those torps. |
Coca Carola
6
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
BC sized covops able to fit covops cloak, citadel launchers and a new citadel bomb launcher is not a new idea. One can only hope that CCP notices if it comes up regularly, because it is a really nice idea that would reward tactical skill over blobbing. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
330
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aylin Aslim wrote:There has been lots of tweaks concerning supercapitals. Like all buffs&nerf CCP has done before, these tweaks comes and goes in between being overpowered or useless.
When we inspect a similar case ( not that similar but will be explained ) in subcaps, we found out there is a solution ( an unexpected one but yes, its a solution ) for this problem.
Battleships,
We have a wide variaty of battleships which can excel in multiple roles. However, they are not a dreadful power due to a couple of reasons. One of them is Stealth bombers.
Stealth bombers are being used to vaporate bs fleets without outblobling them.
With the same analogy we can solve the titan problem.
- Stealth BS sized bombers. ( We can even use Black ops ships ).
* Can fit Citadel sized torpedoes with huge dmg bonus ( not on par with sieged dreds ) with huge explosion radius which deals a small amount of damage everyship except supercapitals. * Can fit cov ops cloak * Can use Citadel Bombs, which acts like normal bombs but affective on supercapitals ( huge explosion radius again ). * no tank, poor ressists.
Your comments please. As weird as it seems to me, I really like and support this idea. . |
Griffin Omanid
IntersteIIar Moneymakers
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 22:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I-¦m not sure, if it really has to be an BS for such a role. Because the Stealth Bomber is a small vessel, that is effective against large ships, and the price ratio is 25 mill to 100 mill for the cheapest BS. A Tech2-BS will cost around a billion, whereas a Carrier or Dreadnaught starts by two billion (was long ago when i last looked at the prices) Wouldn-¦t a battlecruiser or cruiser- sized vessel be more suitable? Like for example the Tier3 BC-¦s, they are obviously less resistant, but much cheaper, and new pilots can effort them faster, and will so get something to defend against caps. But I am sure this would be more a balancing-thing, if BS or BC. |
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
958
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Posted - 2012.07.05 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Griffin Omanid wrote:I-¦m not sure, if it really has to be an BS for such a role. Because the Stealth Bomber is a small vessel, that is effective against large ships, and the price ratio is 25 mill to 100 mill for the cheapest BS. A Tech2-BS will cost around a billion, whereas a Carrier or Dreadnaught starts by two billion (was long ago when i last looked at the prices) Wouldn-¦t a battlecruiser or cruiser- sized vessel be more suitable? Like for example the Tier3 BC-¦s, they are obviously less resistant, but much cheaper, and new pilots can effort them faster, and will so get something to defend against caps. But I am sure this would be more a balancing-thing, if BS or BC. More of a size thing. There is no way that a BC would be able to fit the launchers. |
Motoko Kusanagui
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.07.06 02:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
another use for Black Ops ship sounds real nice and people's feedback is good so far +1 from me. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
161
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Posted - 2012.07.06 02:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Oh god, no more ships with mismatched weapons please. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Raphael Celestine
Galactic Trust Inc
9
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Posted - 2012.07.06 04:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:More of a size thing. There is no way that a BC would be able to fit the launchers. I doubt that a BC with capital launchers is any harder to manage than a frig with BS launchers, and we already have those. |
Griffin Omanid
IntersteIIar Moneymakers
0
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Posted - 2012.07.06 06:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Raphael Celestine wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:More of a size thing. There is no way that a BC would be able to fit the launchers. I doubt that a BC with capital launchers is any harder to manage than a frig with BS launchers, and we already have those. Yes, the Stealth Bomber also got these large additions so that siege launcher can fit. It needs some time so that you can see the T1-vessel in a stealth bomber. I think these adds must be made in both cases for BS and BC-¦s. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
783
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Posted - 2012.07.06 07:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
There is no titan problem, titans were fairly well nerfed, leave them alone for a while. |
Mark Androcius
95
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Posted - 2012.07.06 10:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would say cruisers really. Fitted with 3 bomb launchers and 4 torpedo launchers, leaving space for 1 cov ops cloak.
A battleship or even battlecruiser, is just way to sluggish and will just be killed in seconds, for not being able to warp away fast enough.
Compare them: SB, warp to 30, drop bomb, warp away, rinse repeat. BSSB or BCSB, warp to 50, drop bomb, wait to align, get locked, pew pew, boom, warp away in pod.
You could of course try tediously to pre-align to something, which would make it go like this: Warp to 70, align to something which has the target in between it, uncloak when at 50 km, drop bomb, warp off, rinse, repeat.
But the issue with that would be, that you initial warp in point ( if your opponent has any active braincells ) will be swarming with baddies, when going for your second run, or your third one, which means you have to go through a lot of work to get a new warp in point every single round. If a man speaks his mind in the forest and no woman hears him, is he still wrong? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
961
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Posted - 2012.07.06 14:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thats a fair point. Though this would be more useful in wolf packs (lol wolf pack of BS) not solo so much. And a cruiser with normal torps/bombs would obsolete the SB because it could target the same enemy. Thats why the OP is thinking of BS with Citadel torps.
And with this, we could then have a nice capital buff for once. Just so that they have a point to being flown. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
483
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Posted - 2012.07.08 15:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Use "Compact Citadel Torpedoes," like what Fighter-Bombers have (at least lore-wise), but loads existing capital munitions.
I'm thinking maybe destroyer-size?
I've beaked-off about this concept a lot in the past, and I used to think that a BC-size chassis was right, but now I'm thinking Destro would be better. They already have 8 hi slots, so 5 Compact CitaTorps, 2 bomb-launchers, and the cloak in the highs.
4/5 mids, 2/3 lows, enough grid and CPU to fit a medium shield extender or 400mm plate with a T2 resist-profile--not too tanky, but these things would probably still need some tank in this application.
Not cruiser, though--too many T II cruiser chassis as it is. The Destroyer line could use more variation, as well.
Definitely not BS--much too expensive, and far too unwieldy. BLOPs can be buffed whilst retaining their current roles, plus evolving that a bit (ninja moon-POS hacking, anyone?) just fine.
(We'll save the Ti-2/T2--or maybe Ti-3/T2?--for the all-in-one CovOps capable combat-exploration ship, which is a new thread I've had a-brewing for a while. Watch this space)
E:
4-5 mid/2-3 lo slots for Caldari and Minni, reverse for Gallente/Amarr. In irae, veritas. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
697
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Posted - 2012.07.09 04:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
If this happened, we'd get Black Ops remodels, so you can fit the citadel launchers on them. :) Just imagine the sexy. |
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
483
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Posted - 2012.07.09 04:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:If this happened, we'd get Black Ops remodels, so you can fit the citadel launchers on them. :) Just imagine the sexy.
Widow + Capital Torp-batteries = Oh, soooooo pretty
Is the sound-file for capital missile launch different from the BS-scale one, though? I hope so, because the latter seems a bit "thin" and weak to me.
Missile that size lighting-off should be a tremendous, wrath-of-the-Gods booming bass ROAR, not the little "Pss-sheeeeeeeewww..."
(Yes, EVE has sound...It's even been working fairly well the last couple of patches, if you can imagine that!) In irae, veritas. |
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
29
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Posted - 2012.07.09 04:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
What about heavy bombers? based off the industrial hulls. And a new bomb type.
The way I see things is that the current bombs are much like the USAF MOAB, they are designed to blow up crap over a wide area. But they lack penetration.
Heavy bombers would bring about three new things possibly.
Heavy Bombs that do one of the four damage type(pick your bomb for what you want to do of course).
However while deployment of heavy bombs is similar to that of normal bombs in that you fly and deploy they operate differently than current bombs in that they have to hit something to damage it. on impact with a collidable object(ship, POS, asteroid, anything collidable) they would detonate and do damage to that target. Heavy bombs would do say 70-80k base damage. They are truly unguided weapons meaning some creative flying would be needed but they would be great for hitting super-caps.
heavy bombs would of course be deployed from heavy bomb launchers(this would keep them off of stealths).
Heavy bombers could also fit the Rotory Bomb Launcher. this would be a faster firing version of the normal bomb launcher, much like heavy bombers of the airforce in reality it would allow deployment of lots of the smaller munitions. |
Aylin Aslim
Stargate Systems Zombie Ninja Space Bears
10
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Posted - 2012.07.09 07:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
i still think "BS" hull is the best hull for this purpose.
1-2 billion per ship, it will take 15-30 billions of isk for any alliance to create a potential threath against super capital blobs. THUS, they will need to field battleships or normal capital fleets.
15-30 billion isk is not much for an alliance.
Also, the fittings should be limited as stealth bombers are limited, however the ships themselves should be pretty much agile & weak.
Normal Black ops features + stealth bomber features - Ewar and other type of dmg & tank abilities.
So here it goes, a battleship that can jump and open Covert Cynoes, where it can also use buffed( H-¦gh damage less rof not to make dreads obsolete in some roles ) citadel torpedoes and bombs. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
486
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Posted - 2012.07.10 11:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eeeeehhh...
BS' are much too unwieldy. In irae, veritas. |
Kadeyoo
BS And UNICORNS Inc Black Pearl Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 11:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
We already have it - it's called a dreadnought. Supersquishy once in siege, and super DPS against big targets, and they cost the same as you proposed. Oh well, not stealthy? Who cares, cyno up, and jump right into the battle. Can be DDd? You said yourself, your ships are supposed to come without a tank as well. Can't escape undetected? Have your carriers cap you up, launch cyno, and jump out.
If you are expecting resistance, your ships would die just as well as dreadnoughts (just look at how T3 BCs are rather high on the priority list of primary calling - simply because they serve that same role, small, squishy - high DPS). If you are not, you might as well bring dreadnoughts.
Titan fights are not exactly covert, don't see the whole point of doing this - other than you looking for a better POS bashing alternative to dreadnoughts.
Things seem fine the way they are at the moment, though Citadel Torpedoes need to be looked at badly. |
Aylin Aslim
Stargate Systems Zombie Ninja Space Bears
11
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Posted - 2012.07.10 12:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dreadnoughts don't have "citadel bombs". It's the bombs that kill battleships not the "loldmg" torpedoes which does <500dps to battleships. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
242
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Posted - 2012.07.10 15:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:Dreadnoughts don't have "citadel bombs". Correct, they don't have citadel bombs because they don't need them. |
Kadeyoo
BS And UNICORNS Inc Black Pearl Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.07.10 18:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aylin Aslim wrote:Dreadnoughts don't have "citadel bombs". It's the bombs that kill battleships not the "loldmg" torpedoes which does <500dps to battleships.
What would that purpose of such bombs be? To deal 2mil damage to supercapitals? I'm smelling you are jealous of not having either the SP to fly and/or the money to buy/fit a Titan with a DD. |
Aylin Aslim
Stargate Systems Zombie Ninja Space Bears
12
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Posted - 2012.07.10 20:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
ah no no no, this idea infact, has nothing to do with me. Personally, i don't like flying anything bigger than a bc ( even BC's are too slow ) and i don't like flying in any gang which has more than 20-30 members.
In eve, there is always a counter for what you may field. For example, if you have logistics, they can counter it with jammers. if you have jammers, they can counter it with eccm ( doh ) or LR ships. if you have LR ships, they can counter it with faster stuff.
if you have RR'ing Battleships, they might have capital stuff ( bigger ships ) to drop OR they might have more battleships to shoot at you ( lame ) OR they might just have 15ish bombers which can vaporize your whole fleet of bs's.
Lets adopt this to supercaps, if you have supercaps, they cannot have bigger stuff - since its the biggest -, they might field more supercaps ( which is the real issue, WhoHasMoreSuperCapsOnline ). Thats it. There is only 1 counter, which is not a counter at all for supercap blobbing.
-¦f the price is issue, set the Stealth bombing BS's price ( indirectly by materials ) around 10bil - who cares -.
Just give people a reason to be afraid of something when they are using titans. its like, "hey we have 5 hacs in our system lets drop 2 titans and 1 ms on them" |
Gustav Mannfred
The Black Suicidegankers
36
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Posted - 2012.07.11 06:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
i like this idea, i think, tech 2 tier 3 bs would be nice for that. i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183 |
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