Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:06:00 -
[1]
People always want to know what good ISK/hour is no matter what the given profession/method of income. I have been keeping track of what I have made since day 1. I have been in NPC corps, big corps, small corps, and met a few non corp friends along the way. I have monitored what they make also as a benchmark to myself. Here is what I have found out:
Mining. Don't even bother giving an ISK/hour breakdown on mining. Learn to use evefit and ISK/m3 sites, but remember those are NOT the only variables. First of all, you do not make (how much ore you pull per minute) x ISK/m3 x 60mins = hourly income. There are several methods in which you can mine; a. jetcan mining b. orca mining or alt with indy c. return to station when full d. Anchored GSC mining
If using an alt you are burning double man hours. If you're landing you are losing time. If you are stopping at GSC's you are losing time. If you are jetcan mining eventually you will get flipped, and even if not you still have to spend time picking up the cans. I personally pull aprox 1750/m3 per minute. Thats 194,000ISK/minute for scordite. That's 11.7 mil an hour. If I use an alt that makes it 5.8 mil per man hour. If I fly solo with a 20km3 hold and land when it gets full I make about 8.5 mil an hour doing the same thing. GSC mining you can make a little more than that IF you have your GSC's setup perfectly and can fly your hulk and mine at the same time.
The bottom line is this: in no possible scenario can you make 11.7mil per man hour mining scordite, yet I see people say they do all the time.
Missions are the same thing but with greater variables. You can do a level 4 mission in a relatively inexpensive Drake, or a Billion ISK plus T2 mission raping monster. The time in the latter will be greatly reduced, obviously. However, the same principals apply. A mission that has 20 million in rewards and salvage that takes 1 hour to complete does not generate 20 mil/hour income unless you can complete all of the following tasks. Accept mission, load up for the specific mission, go there, complete it, salvage it, turn it in, sell the salvage, and be ready to repeat immediately. Again if you use a second account or partner you double the man hours involved.
Wormholes and ratting are much the same, the difference being the increased risk of ship loss. A 50 million isk profit from a ratting session with a 20 million ISK ship loss is a 30 million profit. etc etc.
IMHO, the best way to tell how much ISK you should be making is a baseline of 10 mil per day per account. Even if you don't buy PLEX and pay with real world money thats a good starting point. If you can double that amount you can afford to play with PLEX cards and fly decent ships. The longer you play the quicker you can make that baseline. The longer you play the less you care, 20 mil a day is literally chump change to many.
Just wanted to put a thread out there showing that income on paper is not always net income. This is clearly a signature. |
Kallikor
Caldari Cockpit Commandos
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:20:00 -
[2]
Ok so now that you've described exactly how to calculate your isk/hr and why it's important to do so, now what?
You have to know what variables affect your isk/hr because if you don't then you're wasting your time. You have to know things like mining with a full bonus orca and 1 hulk makes less isk/hr than two hulks docking and dumping, but 3 hulks with a full bonus orca makes more than 4 hulks.
But you wouldn't know that unless you spent the time figuring out what your isk/hr is. So why are we supposed to not bother with isk/hr again?
|
Sendara Amarri
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
The bottom line is this: in no possible scenario can you make 11.7mil per man hour mining scordite, yet I see people say they do all the time.
4-5 hulks and an orca pilot with a mindlink implant lets you mine at that amount of isk per hour. It gets better for every additional hulk after the fifth one as well.
|
Last Wolf
Rage For Order
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:32:00 -
[4]
I think he is trying to say people rarely make the isk/hour they claim to make. Oh no you don't! Incoming witty reply, ETA: 300 seconds! |
Dex Timor
Valklear Guard
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kallikor Ok so now that you've described exactly how to calculate your isk/hr and why it's important to do so, now what?
You have to know what variables affect your isk/hr because if you don't then you're wasting your time. You have to know things like mining with a full bonus orca and 1 hulk makes less isk/hr than two hulks docking and dumping, but 3 hulks with a full bonus orca makes more than 4 hulks.
But you wouldn't know that unless you spent the time figuring out what your isk/hr is. So why are we supposed to not bother with isk/hr again?
Meh ... I think his point is that one player telling you how much isk/hr he gets may not be reliable information or not something you should feel the need to measure yourself against. Maybe the player seems to have a huge income but needs 3 accounts to get his 100mill/hr or his calculations just take the best case scenario.
|
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Missions are the same thing but with greater variables. You can do a level 4 mission in a relatively inexpensive Drake, or a Billion ISK plus T2 mission raping monster. The time in the latter will be greatly reduced, obviously. However, the same principals apply. A mission that has 20 million in rewards and salvage that takes 1 hour to complete does not generate 20 mil/hour income unless you can complete all of the following tasks. Accept mission, load up for the specific mission, go there, complete it, salvage it, turn it in, sell the salvage, and be ready to repeat immediately. Again if you use a second account or partner you double the man hours involved.
Ppl calculate missions per hour like this: It took me 45 min to complete the mission , including salvage, turn in, pick up everything. I made 35mil therefor that mission was about 46.66 mil / hour.
At the end of the day you can compare the crappy missions that make 20m/h with the missions that give 50m+ per hour and next time you know which missions to skip. We are well aware that you need to complete everything in that time. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
|
Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 16:49:00 -
[7]
TBH I don't see the problem with ignoring the small setbacks when discussing hourly income. Regardless of WHY people do it (mostly for epeen related reasons) it creates a sort of standard that's used when comparing the income of one type of activity to another.
There are so many small variables involved in calculating isk/hour that the actual numbers would mean nothing at all, so what's wrong with sticking to a more or less universally accepted standard for discussing isk/hour incomes of various professions?
|
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: WarlockX
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Missions are the same thing but with greater variables. You can do a level 4 mission in a relatively inexpensive Drake, or a Billion ISK plus T2 mission raping monster. The time in the latter will be greatly reduced, obviously. However, the same principals apply. A mission that has 20 million in rewards and salvage that takes 1 hour to complete does not generate 20 mil/hour income unless you can complete all of the following tasks. Accept mission, load up for the specific mission, go there, complete it, salvage it, turn it in, sell the salvage, and be ready to repeat immediately. Again if you use a second account or partner you double the man hours involved.
Ppl calculate missions per hour like this: It took me 45 min to complete the mission , including salvage, turn in, pick up everything. I made 35mil therefor that mission was about 46.66 mil / hour.
At the end of the day you can compare the crappy missions that make 20m/h with the missions that give 50m+ per hour and next time you know which missions to skip. We are well aware that you need to complete everything in that time.
Exactly. You have no control over what your agent gives you. You know what missions not to take and can only refuse 2. That variable alone kills an average thats not taken from many samples rather than the 2 you used. If you use a different agent your LP payout changes.
But you hit the nail on the head with "@ the end of the day". A good missioner will be able to react quickly to the variables and make more ISK at the end of the day.
Im up for that orca challenge, whats does a hulk pull with all 5's and full orca bonus? I'm willing to bet that you can make that much in hisec with a full blown OP, but that you need an investment of over a billion isk and 12 months training time across characters. So I should have worded it differently as there is an exception to just about everything. This is clearly a signature. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:04:00 -
[9]
So you start with "why ISK/h is a fail concept" yet you pretty much only complain about how most people DO NOT calculate their ISK/h properly, because they forget or gloss over a lot of things. I fail to see how that makes "ISK/h" a "fail" concept. Misleading title is misleading.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:16:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 31/03/2010 17:17:11 I measure my income in bil/hr, but I only work on February 29th.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
|
Luc Guerrier
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:16:00 -
[11]
There's a bigass logical fallacy in the OP. If you spend 1 hour playing 5 characters then that's still only 1 manhour spent. Man != character.
|
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Luc Guerrier There's a bigass logical fallacy in the OP. If you spend 1 hour playing 5 characters then that's still only 1 manhour spent. Man != character.
Lol. Its in game man hours being spent. They get paid for with real world currency. 2.1 cents an hour per account. The real world man hours always remain constant but the price is variable. This is clearly a signature. |
Cat o'Ninetails
Rancer Defence League
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:35:00 -
[13]
hi cat here
i think that isks arent important it is just how you feel about yourself like for instance after some succesful defending i am pleased as punch lol
x
|
Jovialmadness
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 17:55:00 -
[14]
I'm so confused now
should I say I make 9 mil an hour or 200 mil a day. |
Shawna Gray
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 18:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
3. since the information is constantly misrepresented, and average per day is much more realistic and helpful, I feel that it fails as a whole.
Thats the same as isk/hr that people usually use. Often you look at isk/hr as an average over more than just one day too as some professions are more luckbased.
|
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 18:05:00 -
[16]
Dunno when I do my calcualtions its manhour per chibbra, chibbra being the valuing factor for that manhour.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Punic Corp.
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 18:23:00 -
[17]
Just beacuse some people calculate their ISK/hour rate incorrectly doesn't mean the concept itself is "fail". It IS a useful measure. Some of us actually have a life outside of Eve. If I can make x amount of ISK/day while on average spending 1 hour/day at it, it's a hell of a lot better than if I have to spend an average of 5 hours/day to make the same amount. ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
eI caido
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 18:24:00 -
[18]
It's a game.
|
K'uata Sayus
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 19:12:00 -
[19]
I know for certain I make 0 Isk/Hr reading the forums.
I've always been skeptical of some players saying they make big Isk/Hr, knowing that they are either talking about mining or missioning. The real Isk comes from trading where the unit of measure is simply amount of Isk in your wallet.
For a noob to get a sense of the game and how to obtain an Isk stash, Isk/Hr may be a bit useful, but after awhile its quality time spent away from RL. That's the real unit of measure.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Pa Thetic
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 19:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Luc Guerrier There's a bigass logical fallacy in the OP. If you spend 1 hour playing 5 characters then that's still only 1 manhour spent. Man != character.
Lol. Its in game man hours being spent. They get paid for with real world currency. 2.1 cents an hour per account. The real world man hours always remain constant but the price is variable based on number of accounts.
You forgot to factor in time NOT spent playing / time spent on each individual character. Which of your alts is not pulling their weight and needs disciplining.
You also cover the areas of ISK making that are the worst possible ways to make money. How is your theory supposed to be taken seriously when you know nothing about truly making money.
Maybe you should read some of the posts in new citizens Q&A to get yourself a clue Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist OK
|
|
Ka choop
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 20:14:00 -
[21]
Browsing the boards seriously lowers my isk/hour.
I don't agree with how alts are treated in the equation.
Whether solo isk-ing or multi-account isk-ing is more profitable depends on how much extra isk that second account brings in. And that depends on how much a plex costs. If the alt brings in less extra isk then then cost of a plex then you might as well stop the subscription for the alt and sell a plex on contract.
For instance, let's say a plex is 300 million. You run missions and you make 20 million an hour. So, you want to raise that, let's bring in an alt. Let's say you and your alt manage bring in 30 million an hour. (two accounts is often not twice as effective) In this scenario you would be having to farm isk for 30 hours a month to break even.
If you play more your alt starts earning extra isk an hour, but in the end you won't get the 30 million an hour you thought you got by bringing in an alt.
So let's say you farm isk for 60 hours. You and your alt make 30 million an hour of which 10 can be accounted towards your alt. So your alt brings in 600 million isk. But you have to subtractthe price of a plex. So playing with two character brings in only 300 million extra isk.
Your main character makes 1200 in 60 hours which gets the grand total to 1500 isk farmed in 60 hours, which is 25 million isk/hour. So while you might think the alt made you go from 20 to 30, in reality it can be very different and in this example it's only 25.
There are lots of good reasons to play with alts. But if you do it to make extra ISK/hour, make sure bringing in an alt makes you more ISK then the cost of a plex there are situations where it's totally worth it and sitations where it's a waste.
|
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 20:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cipher Jones People exaggerate a lot
This isn't news :)
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 22:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pa Thetic
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Luc Guerrier There's a bigass logical fallacy in the OP. If you spend 1 hour playing 5 characters then that's still only 1 manhour spent. Man != character.
Lol. Its in game man hours being spent. They get paid for with real world currency. 2.1 cents an hour per account. The real world man hours always remain constant but the price is variable based on number of accounts.
You forgot to factor in time NOT spent playing / time spent on each individual character. Which of your alts is not pulling their weight and needs disciplining.
You also cover the areas of ISK making that are the worst possible ways to make money. How is your theory supposed to be taken seriously when you know nothing about truly making money.
Maybe you should read some of the posts in new citizens Q&A to get yourself a clue
Please point out what I have posted that is inaccurate. Thanks. This is clearly a signature. |
Pa Thetic
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2010.03.31 23:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Pa Thetic
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Luc Guerrier There's a bigass logical fallacy in the OP. If you spend 1 hour playing 5 characters then that's still only 1 manhour spent. Man != character.
Lol. Its in game man hours being spent. They get paid for with real world currency. 2.1 cents an hour per account. The real world man hours always remain constant but the price is variable based on number of accounts.
You forgot to factor in time NOT spent playing / time spent on each individual character. Which of your alts is not pulling their weight and needs disciplining.
You also cover the areas of ISK making that are the worst possible ways to make money. How is your theory supposed to be taken seriously when you know nothing about truly making money.
Maybe you should read some of the posts in new citizens Q&A to get yourself a clue
Please point out what I have posted that is inaccurate. Thanks.
I already did. Jesus Christ how **** at reading are you? Read the post you quoted, then get yourself a clue.
How some people think they are doing a favour by posting this bull**** I do not know. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist OK
|
Captain Megadeath
|
Posted - 2010.04.01 00:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: eI caido It's a game.
Correct.
Some people calculate ISK/Hour because this is their 2nd (or 1st) job.
I mine, build, destroy, mission, ninja or yarrr because its what I want to do it for enjoyment, not because I need to do it for moar interwebz monies.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine
|
AdmiralJohn
The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.01 00:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: eI caido It's a game.
Correct.
Some people calculate ISK/Hour because this is their 2nd (or 1st) job.
I mine, build, destroy, mission, ninja or yarrr because its what I want to do it for enjoyment, not because I need to do it for moar interwebz monies.
This. My biggest gripe with Eve is all the people do DO treat it like a second job. More to life than internet spaceships.
|
Meelou
|
Posted - 2010.04.01 01:54:00 -
[27]
I demand CCP institute a minimum wage and unemployment insurance. That will make the economy better and is more fair to everyone.
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2010.04.01 02:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cipher Jones tripe
OP is a clueless noob.
All that matters is how much net isk you gain per hour. That and if you are having fun doing it.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
Jypsie
|
Posted - 2010.04.01 03:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Meelou I demand CCP institute a minimum wage and unemployment insurance. That will make the economy better and is more fair to everyone.
This is covered by the fact that you can always be hired by an NPC corp and run level 1 missions in your rookie ship that will be provided for you.
Minimum wage doesn't mean good wage.
|
Baraqijal
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.04.01 07:49:00 -
[30]
Mining is good money when you'r afk... You spend 10s every 9 minutes just throwing the crap out of your hulk, with someone or your other account in an orca looks in and takes the 5 hulk 9 minute income into his hold, warps, dock, undocks, warps, goes off for another 9 minutes. In reality, for everyone except the orca pilot it really is 10s every 9 minutes.For him it's like 2 minutes every 9 minutes. So not bad isk.
And as for isk/h for ratting. 0,0 -> sansha sanctum worth like what... 45m in bounties only - if you have a nicely fitted ship - you make that in 40 minutes. After you finish, you already have another anomaly scanned and you warp to it to make another 45m in the next 40 minutes. Don't loot, if you have a newbie corp mate he can loot all that in 10 minutes (around 20m in loot plus with luck 30m in salvage). For two - that's really good income.
POS moon mining - 15minutes every 8 days (with right reactions) and profit really depending on the market prices, but generally high.
There really is high isk/h of work, just sometimes with risk. But risk can be minimised with effort that does not include hours spent, just a bit of thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |