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Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I am slowly reading up on as much WH stuff as I can and have been listening to some recordings via the EvE Uni page, however it has prompted a question to which I need a definitive answer.
I understand the impact of opening a new exit, thus entrance on the other side to your own space, but I am confused as to when this happens:
Does the new exit/entrance come to life when it's: A) scanned 100% B) Actually used
I thought, in order for someone else to see an entrance into new space the exit would have to be used by myself, however one of the recordings I am listening too says that all I need do is to scan it for it to come to life.
If it simply needs scanning, what factors would I need to take into account and are there any clues, before it gets too 100%, that it could be a new entrance into our space?
I hope I have understood the basics enough to post this question correctly.
Regards
Barrak |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
the K162 on the other side appears as soon as you initiate warp on your side. there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
143
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.
And this is where wormhole life teaches you to never assume you are alone lol Alliance Diplomat, Recruiter |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1875
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system. And this is where wormhole life teaches you to never assume you are alone lol
Exactly. Even if you've gone a month without opening a wormhole and have never seen another ship, you're not safe. It doesn't take long to open a new hole, survey a system and decide it would make a good target in the future Then you just drop in a scanning alt, close the hole, and unless they saw the K162 come and go in those few minutes they'll have no idea anything has changed. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
99
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Posted - 2012.07.05 16:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:the K162 on the other side appears as soon as you initiate warp on your side. there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.
you can never bee 100% sure though. and as for safety, you can always get incomming k162 at any given moment for a surprise buttseks party |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
31
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Posted - 2012.07.05 19:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah like these guys have said you have no way of knowing if somebody else hasn't come through your system. Even with no extra wormholes in systems, a 16 hour wormhole could have popped or somebody could have come through your system, scanned an exit, collapsed their connection to your system, and then used your exit to get out.
In my experience, if you're the first person to warp to the wormhole it says "longer than a day" for about 1 minute after you first warp to it.
That being said, if you're online when your old static goes down, you can scan down your wormholes and know with 100% certainty that the new one has not been found.
Timer initiates on WARP (regardless of arrival). We frequently "carry" our C4 connection until later in the evening when we have people, to keep it healthy. |
Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.06 07:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for all the replies to far chaps.
Svodola Darkfury wrote:That being said, if you're online when your old static goes down, you can scan down your wormholes and know with 100% certainty that the new one has not been found.
In relation to this comment. I am almost certainly confusing myself here, but here goes....... I thought you couldn't scan down an exit unless someone else has scanned and used the other side before?
This also poses another question for me, related to my first question. If if create a wormhole by scanning it down but do not use it, I assume I am creating the entire wormhole.... ie both sides? Thus if I scan one down it will appear in my system and that of my new neighbors?
Regards
Barrak
ps.
If I have confused myself above, some clarity would be greatly appreciated. |
joes Bazooka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.07.06 08:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Barrak wrote:Thanks for all the replies to far chaps/ettes. Svodola Darkfury wrote:That being said, if you're online when your old static goes down, you can scan down your wormholes and know with 100% certainty that the new one has not been found. In relation to this comment. I am almost certainly confusing myself here, but here goes....... I thought you couldn't scan down an exit unless someone else has scanned and used the other side before? This also poses another question for me, related to my first question. If if create a wormhole by scanning it down but do not use it, I assume I am creating the entire wormhole.... ie both sides? Thus if I scan one down it will appear in my system and that of my new neighbors? Regards Barrak ps. If I have confused myself above, some clarity would be greatly appreciated.
You have over complicated this for yourself.
You scan down the WH and BM it. It is there but not activated on both sides.
You then initiate a warp to it, at that moment it creates both sides.
What the poster meant was once your static WH pops you control when it opens, until you get visitors from inside. And you have to be aware that while you have been sleeping you may have had visitors from K162's that have used your static and then closed there hole so you may not know they have used it but it has been activated for you. |
Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.06 08:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
thanks for the explanation.
So what's all this stuff I have read about not being able to scan a wormhole unless the other side has been scanned/used first?
Is that true?
Regards |
Masikari
State War Academy Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2012.07.06 09:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Barrak wrote:thanks for the explanation.
So what's all this stuff I have read about not being able to scan a wormhole unless the other side has been scanned/used first?
Is that true?
Regards
A K162 WH does not exist in your WH (therefore cannot be scanned) until the other party has scanned and warped to a particular WH on their side. Once they've warped to their outgoing WH, it will only then (potentially) spawn a scannable WH in your system. |
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joes Bazooka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.07.06 09:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Barrak wrote:thanks for the explanation.
So what's all this stuff I have read about not being able to scan a wormhole unless the other side has been scanned/used first?
Is that true?
Regards
Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.
This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.
I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places. |
Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.06 09:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
hmm....
Everything was clearer before I started asking questions
Don't the last two responses contradict eachother a little?
One says (my interpretation) that I can not find the WH until someone uses the other side to enter my space. The other says that people the other side can't find the WH until I scan and use it.
I think there may be a piece of the puzzle that I am missing. Does it make a difference in teh scenarios I am describing if we are talking about a K162 (which I understood to be an exit to known space null/low/high) or if we are talking about a WH that leads to WHspace?
Regards
ps. thanks for your patience. |
joes Bazooka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 09:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Barrak wrote:hmm.... Everything was clearer before I started asking questions Don't the last two responses contradict eachother a little? One says (my interpretation) that I can not find the WH until someone uses the other side to enter my space. The other says that people the other side can't find the WH until I scan and use it. I think there may be a piece of the puzzle that I am missing. Does it make a difference in teh scenarios I am describing if we are talking about a K162 (which I understood to be an exit to known space null/low/high) or if we are talking about a WH that leads to WHspace? Regards ps. thanks for your patience.
You've lost me... Both mine and the above posters explanations are the same thing. Sorry but it's really that hard.
/searches around for 3D props..... |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
11
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Posted - 2012.07.06 09:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Its really quite simple.
Imagine a tunnel in space. This tunnel has an entrance and an exit. The exit side will ALWAYS be a K162 signature, the entrance will not be.
If you find a K162 wormhole in your home system this can ONLY be because someone else has scanned it down and warped to it. Until they have scanned AND warped to it on their side it will not exist.
OK? My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
Zer'Adul
Kore Labs HHC
4
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Posted - 2012.07.06 09:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Barrak wrote:hmm.... Everything was clearer before I started asking questions Don't the last two responses contradict eachother a little? One says (my interpretation) that I can not find the WH until someone uses the other side to enter my space. The other says that people the other side can't find the WH until I scan and use it. I think there may be a piece of the puzzle that I am missing. Does it make a difference in teh scenarios I am describing if we are talking about a K162 (which I understood to be an exit to known space null/low/high) or if we are talking about a WH that leads to WHspace? Regards ps. thanks for your patience.
A K162 is a generic exit WH. All WHs, regardless of type have an entry and an exit. All exits will have a K162 on it. It's how you can tell an Inbound WH from an Outbound WH. |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
11
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Posted - 2012.07.06 09:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Although, just to confuse things there are also what are sometimes called 'roaming holes'.
These are not static to the system and are not K162 exits from other systems.
I haven't had one in my home system for a while but I recall the first time I found one it confused the hell out of me. My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.06 10:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
joes Bazooka wrote:/searches around for 3D props.....
I did laugh at this, and once I again, I thank you for your patience (which I assume is starting to wear a little thin).
BobFenner wrote:Its really quite simple.
Imagine a tunnel in space. This tunnel has an entrance and an exit. The exit side will ALWAYS be a K162 signature, the entrance will not be.
If you find a K162 wormhole in your home system this can ONLY be because someone else has scanned it down and warped to it. Until they have scanned AND warped to it on their side it will not exist.
OK?
Ok, this, along with all the other responses, has made things fall into place..... the 'piece of the puzzle' I was refering to earlier.
If I find a K162, then I know someone, at the bear minimum, has scanned down and warped this WH from their space, beit null/low/high or another WHspace.
Is there anyway of knowing if this has been used?
Another question - Is it standard operating procedure of most WH corps to explore any and all Wormholes in their space? If the answer is 'Yes' to this question then I would derive that answer to my earlier question is that if it's there then it's pretty much been used.
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Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.06 10:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
joes Bazooka wrote:Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.
This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.
I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places.
Based on this comment, if I wanted to try and secure my WHspace as much as I could, I would want to do the following:
- Close existing EXITS
- Scan new ones but NOT warp to them
- Close existing entrances
- Pray new EXITS (K162's) do not appear, but scan for them.
Regards |
Godfrey Silvarna
Stargates and Smuggler Barons
19
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Posted - 2012.07.06 10:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
The answer usually is yes. |
joes Bazooka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Barrak wrote:joes Bazooka wrote:Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.
This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.
I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places. Based on this comment, if I wanted to try and secure my WHspace as much as I could, I would want to do the following:
- Close existing EXITS
- Scan new ones but NOT warp to them
- Close existing entrances
- Pray new EXITS (K162's) do not appear, but scan for them.
Regards
Your getting warmer now. |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Barrak wrote:joes Bazooka wrote:Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.
This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.
I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places. Based on this comment, if I wanted to try and secure my WHspace as much as I could, I would want to do the following:
- Close existing EXITS
- Scan new ones but NOT warp to them
- Close existing entrances
- Pray new EXITS (K162's) do not appear, but scan for them.
Regards
this is basically correct except you can never be 100% sure there is not some *** in a covops sitting in your system. also, unless you scan 24/7, your safety could have been compromised while you were away (people coming in through a K162 and then collapsing it before you notice). that said, you can generally assume you are safe if you have no specific reason to believe you are not alone, you did not open your static and did not see any K162s in the last few days.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thank you all.....
I feel like I am finally getting the basics down.
Regards |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Please be aware that some pilots roam w-space in covops capable ships (normally T3's but some in bombers) just looking for kills. They have been known to camp systems for days on end if they spy a particularly 'bear'ish corp.
So my advice is, even if you have the wormhole closed off and you have someone probing for new connections. STILL keep spamming d-scan regularly. It may just give you a few seconds if you are lucky enough to scan when they log in and before they can cloak up.
However, if your system is HUGE then they will have logged off in a spot far enought from any celestial so your chances get slimmer.
I have of course NEVER sat in someone's systems for ten days hoping to catch that solo Nightmare running sites.
But I know someone who did..... My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 12:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
out of curiosity, what DPS can you expect out of a well skilled stealth bomber assuming the target is large enough?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Godfrey Silvarna
Stargates and Smuggler Barons
19
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Posted - 2012.07.06 12:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:out of curiosity, what DPS can you expect out of a well skilled stealth bomber assuming the target is large enough? 400-500 or so |
Hard1234
Iron Horse Manufacturing Incorporated
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
I lived alone in c2 wh until 2 months ago. I read on a forum before, that you can lock wh by colapsing old wh exit then imedietly scan for new one. BM it, but not initiate warp to it. I'm prety sure I was alone in the wh at the time.
I did just that thinking that I was safe. But sceptic that I am, I was pasivly scanining the system. I notice someone was inside. I ask him in local where he enter. He said from high sec. High sec exit was exactly the one I "lock".
So it seams that you cant lock any more. |
Fradle
Bite Me inc Exhale.
5
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Posted - 2012.07.06 14:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hard1234 wrote:I lived alone in c2 wh until 2 months ago. I read on a forum before, that you can lock wh by colapsing old wh exit then imedietly scan for new one. BM it, but not initiate warp to it. I'm prety sure I was alone in the wh at the time.
I did just that thinking that I was safe. But sceptic that I am, I was pasivly scanining the system. I notice someone was inside. I ask him in local where he enter. He said from high sec. High sec exit was exactly the one I "lock".
So it seams that you cant lock any more. Or someone else activated your static. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
17
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Posted - 2012.07.06 14:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Definitely still possible few days ago I scanned our static, didn't warp to it and a bit later someone else warped to it and narrowly missed catching site runners who'd had probes out and saw the new WH spawn when he warped to it. |
Barrak
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.07.06 16:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
So, if you wanted to mess with someone, you could warp into their system and open up all the gates you find........... I guess this would work especially well if they are a solo camper.
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Mongaar
Unseen Nomads Exiled Ones
0
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Posted - 2012.07.06 17:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is part of GM's reply to question about static spawn.
Quote:...As we have stated multiple times, when a wormhole is spawned, both sides are spawned at the same time. The site can be scanned down from either system. Scanning the site down has no relation to when or where the site spawns.
New Static spawn 60sec or so after old is closed and spawns on both sides. |
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