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Empire Wolf
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Posted - 2010.04.02 17:58:00 -
[1]
i am thinking about using a minmatar assault frigate wolf for pirate pvp? is it a good choise? also do you have any good advices for pvp build? how exactly it can speed tank when you are close to your enemy since the speed is around half, even if you orbit you dont have full speed
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.04.02 18:10:00 -
[2]
Wolfs don't "speedtank", it mitigates a fair bit of the damage through low signature, decent velocity and natural resistances.
Both tje Jaguar and Wolf are good, for being assault ships, but like all AF's you need to know what to do with them. They're not as randomly applicable as a cruiser. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 37004
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Redundant Redundancy
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Posted - 2010.04.02 18:15:00 -
[3]
Alright, I'm going to be breaking into AF's sometime in the future as well so I can say what I suspect. You will not be fighting up in someone's face unless it's a case where you are either at a disadvantage (IE they control the range) or you're confident the opponent can't lock you down (a general rarity in pvp).
For a wolf I suspect you'll be using AC II's to orbit at fairly long distances and trying to get better results in the weapon falloff game. So instead of up-close transversal tanking and making them miss every shot, you're distance tanking and reducing their shots to negligible damage.
Take this with a grain of salt, I don't fly AF's.
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ScottyDosn'tKnow
Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.02 18:15:00 -
[4]
You speed tank by keeping your transversal velocity high this is basicly the speed you orbit. Yes you will go slower when you are closer (Try fitting an inertia stabalizer to help this a bit). From my experience Assult Frigs aren't very popular for pvp. they are basicly stronger versions of a frig. I like ceptors better due to their insane speeds and tackling bonuses. With that said Assult frigs could do faily well if you pick your targets carefully. I would say Cruisers and other AF's I would think an AF and a ceptor would be a close fight but I'd give the win to a ceptor most occasions. Assult frigs would be good in gangs/fleets as they are basicly a tougher frig they can tackle and keep tackled longer.
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Ambrosious Martin
Baby Shakers
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Posted - 2010.04.03 01:19:00 -
[5]
I love it, but they tend to die a lot... or I pick the wrong fights. Granted I fly in minmatar lowsec.
I fit mine like so : 4 x 150mm 1x ab, scram 400mm plate, small rep, eanm II, dcu II
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Psiri
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Posted - 2010.04.03 04:33:00 -
[6]
IMO AFs are just inefficient in comparison to cruisers or BCs, at least in lowsec where you don't need that extra agility to escape camps.
They are very cool though and both the Wolf and Jaguar are solid ships.
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Annie Anomie
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.03 10:45:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Annie Anomie on 03/04/2010 10:48:06 AFs aren't bad in and of themselves but the niche they occupy (high DPS/big tank frigate) just isn't all that in demand.
You can spend basically the same on a cruiser or BC (with insurance) and get a significantly bigger tank (to be fair, AFs have the size and agility but that's easy to neutralise with... a neut) and bigger DPS.
Depending on which cruiser you're not even necessarily losing out in anti-frig DPS.
Drone-boats in particularly are effective anti-frig.
So what you're left with is the choice between blowing 40-60m on a vexor/rupture/arb/cane/myrm/harb/drake or on an AF.
Unless you really need to be in a frig hull I dunno why you'd go for an AF.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.03 10:55:00 -
[8]
Fun ships but some of them have serious problems (most of them bar Jaguar/Ishkur which are fine tbh) and are all way too expensive, particularly post moongate, to be cost-efficient.
If they costed at somewhere like 5-10M per hull they'd be relatively reasonable to fly, at 30M per hull it's just silly. They used to be reasonably priced before moongate (when moon mineral supply was higher).
With moon mineral prices as they are, and AFs having higher build requirements then interceptors for some reason, they turn into a cool toy, but not much more.
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Taja Calaren
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Posted - 2010.04.03 15:10:00 -
[9]
Well, the Wolf has a huge disadvantage at pvp: its slot layout.
Two lowslots means:
1. besides the mandatory AB/point you cannot fit a web, wich greatly reduces your speed tanking ability
2. you have to armor tank it wich both reduces your speed/agility (bad for a frig) and isnt very useful with minmatar t2 resistances
and to the idea of range tanking: most opponents will either have more range or more speed (atleast with mwd) than you, so good luck with this....
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Ambrosious Martin
Baby Shakers
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Posted - 2010.04.03 18:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Taja Calaren Well, the Wolf has a huge disadvantage at pvp: its slot layout.
Two lowslots means:
1. besides the mandatory AB/point you cannot fit a web, wich greatly reduces your speed tanking ability
2. you have to armor tank it wich both reduces your speed/agility (bad for a frig) and isnt very useful with minmatar t2 resistances
and to the idea of range tanking: most opponents will either have more range or more speed (atleast with mwd) than you, so good luck with this....
My experience was just always everyone had more friends! The wolf is a mean AF it just doesnt take multiple sets of warriors well.
The next thing to consider is that its really meant as a gang ship and when paired with something like a rapier is deadly.
Just remember it almost always ends up being in scram web range so think and pick targets accordingly.
My newest experience tells me not to fit an active tank but more resists, the last guy had nuets... if my 400mm would have lasted seconds more he would have popped first
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Venetos
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Posted - 2010.04.03 19:27:00 -
[11]
- The Wolf is a nice AF, despite the fact that it doesn't have a web. It's not the best, but it's fine. In many cases it just doesn't outperform the Rifter, so thus the whine for it's price...
- The Wolf is kinda slow, and if you fit ABs there are a lot of stuff that will outrun you. And whatever is faster than you, and can keep a point while range-tanking your ACs is bad news.. .that's were the web requirement kicks in...your web doesn't help you "speed-tank" as stated above, but stops the others of controlling range better than your "slow-@ss"...
- Active tanking without a NOS (or cap injector) is not very reliable...downgrade your guns if you cannot fit a NOS, or don't rely on your SAR too much...
- For all of the above, the Jag that can actually fit a Medium shield buffer and sport dual prop or scram/web fits is superior to the Wolf, despite the less on-paper dps.
- Practice a lot with Rifters before actually using ASs...this will teach you all you should know way better than forum Warriors who could sound as experts, despite the fact they might have never been in the situations they are boldly writing about, or have non-situational knowledge of the OP.
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Taja Calaren
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Posted - 2010.04.04 01:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venetos that's were the web requirement kicks in...your web doesn't help you "speed-tank" as stated above, but stops the others of controlling range better than your "slow-@ss"...
Thats not entirely true.
1. Webs DO help with speed tanking. Assuming your opponent has you webbed (if not, good for you...) and you have him scrambled (so no mwd for him) a non webbed cruiser or battlecruiser will often still have enough speed to prevent you from really orbiting him and thus greatly reducing you transversal speed.
2. Webs rarely often dont help you controlling range. Especially if your opponent is faster than you, he will probably just keep out of your web range. Only way this statement would be true was if you used mwd to get into range, than have it shut of by enemy warp scrambler and now need the web to keep him in range. But then i harldy have heard of people flying mwd-wolf with much success.
I didnt say the Wolf wasnt good, its just pretty much limited to the areas of fast level 1/2 mission and damage dealer in large frigate gangs. Any other job can be done by other ships much better.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.04 08:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 04/04/2010 08:55:50 the only AF i think is almost worth the isk id the Ishkur TBH, but if we are talking minmatar then I would actually recommend the claw (interceptor) or even the rifter itself as the jag barely outperforms a well fit rifter if you consider how much more it costs. The loss of the tracking bonus is quite annoying considering the whopping leap in pricetag
Probably not what you want to hear, but maybe it'll save you a lot of isk.
EDIT, if you have ur heart set on a wolf or jag, listen to the guy above who said practice in rifters. Do it a lot.
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.04.04 15:12:00 -
[14]
AFs are amazing solo pvp ships and I love killing Ishkurs people those pilots tend to think they are unbeatable.
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.04.04 21:49:00 -
[15]
niche
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.04.04 23:01:00 -
[16]
Best Assualt frigate: Dramiel ()
2nd Best: Tie between Jaguar and Ishkur.
There are many ways you can fit the Jag, double MSE buffer for the 10k EHp, Single MSE and web, Afterburner or MWD, Scrambler or Disruptor.
Personally I would go with:
[Jaguar, Jaguar] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Warp Disruptor I
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Core Defence Field Extender I
But it is ludicrously versatile.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.06 18:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 06/04/2010 18:11:52
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Kipina
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Posted - 2010.04.07 10:28:00 -
[18]
Fought against a jaaaag the other day in my AML caracal (dual webs and scram) Why? because I was a complete noob/idiot, I used rage ammo all the time with an explosion radius of 80m, precision would have 35m, I would have won very, very easily If I just would have changed ammo but somehow I just couldnt figure out why I did so **** damage :D You win with AF's usually by other people being too overconfident of their win, and finding out they made a mistake far too late :D
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:34:00 -
[19]
Afs are about being fun, not cost/efficient.
For cost efficient get a cruiser.
For fun fun zoom zoom pew pew, get AFs.
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Arrador
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kipina Fought against a jaaaag the other day in my AML caracal (dual webs and scram) Why? because I was a complete noob/idiot, I used rage ammo all the time with an explosion radius of 80m, precision would have 35m, I would have won very, very easily If I just would have changed ammo but somehow I just couldnt figure out why I did so **** damage :D You win with AF's usually by other people being too overconfident of their win, and finding out they made a mistake far too late :D
You don't even need precisions... Use Factions
He only got me to half shields. Mostly due to me failing to control range. Once I held him @ 5km, I mitigated most of his damage. The thorax showed up at the end of the kill when he was in structure.
[Caracal, AML PVP] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Stasis Webifier II Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior TP-300 x2
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 07/04/2010 17:41:03
Painter drones lol. He meant Warriors. Although ECM drones also work. Actually, Hobgoblins would likely be better than Warriors against Dramiel spam.
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Arrador
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gypsio III Painter drones lol. He meant Warriors. Although ECM drones also work.
10mbit drone bay :( and yea, I roll with Painters, warriors, or ecm drones. But I really don't care either way with the crap drone bay :) IIRC, I think I had hobgoblins I at the time of that jag kill.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:40:00 -
[23]
If the op likes being the scout and bravely tackling the gang on the other side to collect aggro but still have a rather excellent chance of surviving whilst the gang jumps in then jaguar all the way. Its an uber gate tackler and adds quite a bit to a frig gangs overall dps. I flew jags almost exclusively in fw and was always picked up even in private corp ops with a quickness after consistantly being near the top of the damage dealer list even in a bc gang. Plus it pops pods in low sec like a fat kid eats jelly beans. Can't recommend it enough if you are the cowboy of your corp.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
CCP Shadow's Troll List. |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
If they costed at somewhere like 5-10M per hull they'd be relatively reasonable to fly, at 30M per hull it's just silly. They used to be reasonably priced before moongate (when moon mineral supply was higher).
This. Give AF their missing 4th bonus and get them around 10-12 million isk in price range - similar to interceptors- and the the above arguments would be moot.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Originally by: Cpt Branko
If they costed at somewhere like 5-10M per hull they'd be relatively reasonable to fly, at 30M per hull it's just silly. They used to be reasonably priced before moongate (when moon mineral supply was higher).
This. Give AF their missing 4th bonus and get them around 10-12 million isk in price range - similar to interceptors- and the the above arguments would be moot.
Not to say this point is not true(especially the 4th bonus) but for most of the people I know paying 30m for a frigate hull is about the same as buying some t1 ammo for their guns. It's just something you don't really think about as isk is so freakin easy to make. But yeah for a new player just getting into the game and not up to snuff on efficient isk production then rifters and inties are probably the best begginers choice.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
CCP Shadow's Troll List. |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/04/2010 20:47:06
Originally by: Zeba
Quote:
This. Give AF their missing 4th bonus and get them around 10-12 million isk in price range - similar to interceptors- and the the above arguments would be moot.
Not to say this point is not true(especially the 4th bonus) but for most of the people I know paying 30m for a frigate hull is about the same as buying some t1 ammo for their guns. It's just something you don't really think about as isk is so freakin easy to make. But yeah for a new player just getting into the game and not up to snuff on efficient isk production then rifters and inties are probably the best begginers choice.
Some people care about cost-efficiency. I made my billions out of killing other people's ships. Loss cost becomes a factor once you start looking at ships as tools which net you a certain sum before inevitably exploding.
Doesn't really matter for weekend PVP-ers, of course, but nobody really takes them seriously anyway.
Once you ignore ISK, there is rarely a point in flying many many hulls (virtually all T1 bar capitals and a few other select ships, etc).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
LonTas 5
Minmatar United Citizens of EVE
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Posted - 2010.04.08 00:38:00 -
[27]
My stabber has been used for everything from mission running to escort duty. I ran a lvl3 wit mah frend in an assault frigate and i got to the end of his mission, got bored, and wwent away. They're frigates dude. Fit a ruppy and go wild if u wanna pvp. Tech II= SPECIFIC USE ONLY There's this new thing called a stasis webifier. You should really read about it before you buy that interceptor... |
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