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Axonious
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Posted - 2010.04.04 16:42:00 -
[1]
I have done some test with Golem and T2 torpedos. I am surprised that torpedos are almost useless: worse range/damage ratio. Other problem torpedos are buggy. Damages same range, target speed and type:
Serpentis High Admiral: Javelin Torpedos and 1 Target Painter: 3154 Javelin Torpedos and 2 Target Painters: 3154 Rage Torpedos and 1 Target Painter: 3171 Rage Torpedos and 2 Target Painters: 4322
Please tell me why the second TP does not count with Javelins? Rage torp damage like javelin with 1 TP, but in that case can fit more tank etc. It is not worth the trouble. Why should pilots use rage torpedos?
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.04.04 16:45:00 -
[2]
This seems like a very valid and accurate thread from someone who truly understands the mechanics of missiles.
I wish Torps weren't so bad...
- Intigo
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Dead3y3
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Posted - 2010.04.04 16:58:00 -
[3]
LEARNZ ABOUT SIG / EXPLOSION RADIUS
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.04.04 17:08:00 -
[4]
1. If you don't die*, tank is sufficient. More tank is useless. 2. Target painters, webs, rigors etc NEVER increase your damageoutput. They reduce the mitigation possibilities of the target, making them take more damage.
Torps are designed not to deal full damage (without aids), and still be a viable option. They're the highest damage subcap weaponsystem in game(including ship bonuses and "reasonable" setups.). Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 304314
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Ramiera DaMorre
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Posted - 2010.04.04 17:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: NoNah
Torps are designed not to deal full damage (without aids)
I...I know what you're saying but still laughed hard.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.04.04 17:32:00 -
[6]
Don't use weapons that you don't understand. Even if they have AIDS.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.04.04 18:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gypsio III Don't use weapons that you don't understand. Even if they have AIDS.
don't use weapons with AIDS at all.
...at least not without protection. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2010.04.04 19:11:00 -
[8]
When you were shooting Javelins your target were probably not fast enough to mitigate any of the missile damage through speed tanking. However, a target will never take more damage from a missile than MaxDamage*(Sig. Radius / Explosion Radius).
So, for a slow or static target with a Sig. Radius smaller than your missile Explosion Radius, you can increase damage with TPs up to the point where target Sig Radius = Explosion Radius. In your case, one TP was enough to accomplish that, hence no further effect from a second TP.
If the target is speed tanking the missiles, increasing target Sig. Radius above Explosion Radius will still have an effect.
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Axonious
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Posted - 2010.04.04 20:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jack Icegaard When you were shooting Javelins your target were probably not fast enough to mitigate any of the missile damage through speed tanking. However, a target will never take more damage from a missile than MaxDamage*(Sig. Radius / Explosion Radius).
So, for a slow or static target with a Sig. Radius smaller than your missile Explosion Radius, you can increase damage with TPs up to the point where target Sig Radius = Explosion Radius. In your case, one TP was enough to accomplish that, hence no further effect from a second TP.
If the target is speed tanking the missiles, increasing target Sig. Radius above Explosion Radius will still have an effect.
Thank you for explanation, but IMHO practically range/damage ratio of Rage torpedos not too good. Javelin and Cruise missiles (and other weapons of EVE) much better.
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Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2010.04.04 20:59:00 -
[10]
While there are a few exceptions such as Scorch and Barrage, T2 ammo is generally not particularly useful or cost effective. For Rage torpedo's you need a target Sig. Radius of 650m minimum before having a chance to do full damage. They work ok against targets such as Rokhs with shield -extenders, -rigs. Wouldn't use them against BS such as the Typhoon nor NPCs.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.04.04 22:48:00 -
[11]
Yep, my expectations of the average mission runner are right on par. ___
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.04.04 22:50:00 -
[12]
WTT: Large blaster's stats for Torps.
Go on, you know you want to...
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Jethro Amar
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Posted - 2010.04.04 23:59:00 -
[13]
Target painter works only up to the point where target's signature radius is increased to match your torp explosion radius.
Roughly: npc BS + 1xtp gives full damage for standard and javelin torps (450 sig radius) npc BS + 2xtp gives full damage for rage torpedoes more tp's will not add any more damage.
Another problem is velocity. Npc BS speeding at 150m/s is enough to mitigate substantial portion of incoming dps. Use web drones or webs.
As a result, your torps will deal significantly LESS damage than cruise missiles if you dont have target painter and web. If you do however, damage is huge.
Btw: torps on my Raven deal 600 damage (show info on launcher charge) each, but a volley of 6 deals well over 4k damage on rats (structure hits obviously). Not that I mind this extra damage, but I wonder where's the mistake: Show Info on torps or damage notifications?
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Khin'charin
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.05 06:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Axonious I have done some test with Golem and T2 torpedos. I am surprised that torpedos are almost useless: worse range/damage ratio. Other problem torpedos are buggy. Damages same range, target speed and type:
Serpentis High Admiral: Javelin Torpedos and 1 Target Painter: 3154 Javelin Torpedos and 2 Target Painters: 3154 Rage Torpedos and 1 Target Painter: 3171 Rage Torpedos and 2 Target Painters: 4322
Please tell me why the second TP does not count with Javelins? Rage torp damage like javelin with 1 TP, but in that case can fit more tank etc. It is not worth the trouble. Why should pilots use rage torpedos?
How about you get one of those Cybernetic Subprocessor's and then try again? _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.05 09:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jethro Amar Target painter works only up to the point where target's signature radius is increased to match your torp explosion radius.
Roughly: npc BS + 1xtp gives full damage for standard and javelin torps (450 sig radius) npc BS + 2xtp gives full damage for rage torpedoes more tp's will not add any more damage.
Another problem is velocity. Npc BS speeding at 150m/s is enough to mitigate substantial portion of incoming dps. Use web drones or webs.
As a result, your torps will deal significantly LESS damage than cruise missiles if you dont have target painter and web. If you do however, damage is huge.
Btw: torps on my Raven deal 600 damage (show info on launcher charge) each, but a volley of 6 deals well over 4k damage on rats (structure hits obviously). Not that I mind this extra damage, but I wonder where's the mistake: Show Info on torps or damage notifications?
Show info on your ship -> modules -> scroll down to the bottom -> show info on your ammo. But even that is bugged.
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Mortus Valitum
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Posted - 2010.04.05 11:05:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mortus Valitum on 05/04/2010 11:10:03
Originally by: Jethro Amar Target painter works only up to the point where target's signature radius is increased to match your torp explosion radius.
Roughly: npc BS + 1xtp gives full damage for standard and javelin torps (450 sig radius) npc BS + 2xtp gives full damage for rage torpedoes more tp's will not add any more damage.
Another problem is velocity. Npc BS speeding at 150m/s is enough to mitigate substantial portion of incoming dps. Use web drones or webs.
As a result, your torps will deal significantly LESS damage than cruise missiles if you dont have target painter and web. If you do however, damage is huge.
Btw: torps on my Raven deal 600 damage (show info on launcher charge) each, but a volley of 6 deals well over 4k damage on rats (structure hits obviously). Not that I mind this extra damage, but I wonder where's the mistake: Show Info on torps or damage notifications?
What do you think about TP and WEB? What fitting better: 1 TP + 1 WEB or 2 TP?
Edit: 2 TP much better, cause range of webifiers.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.04.05 11:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ramiera DaMorre
Originally by: NoNah
Torps are designed not to deal full damage (without aids)
I...I know what you're saying but still laughed hard.
I knew it would have that effect. Rewrote it 2-3 times before just saying screw it and posted as is =P Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 243093
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.04.05 15:34:00 -
[18]
1. Don't use Rage torpedoes. You'll do more damage with regular torpedoes against almost all targets. Rage torps also have a shorter range than regular torps. (You can use Rage against big fat slow Guristas battleships, but the range reduction and ammo swapping tends to reduce the benefit.)
2. Here is the thread describing the missile damage formulas. Long story short, 1 TP should be good against big slow battleships with maybe 2 TPs for Angel battleships. Against cruisers use 2-3 TPs.
3. Here is a spreadsheet I wrote that determines your missile damage against NPCs: missile damage spreadsheet.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Jethro Amar
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Posted - 2010.04.05 15:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mortus Valitum
What do you think about TP and WEB? What fitting better: 1 TP + 1 WEB or 2 TP? Edit: 2 TP much better, cause range of webifiers.
Typical npc BS has signature radius of 350. 1 tp will increase that to 450 giving you full damage for your standard and javelin torps. Another tp will NOT increase damage further (actually it will, but only a little, as 'extra' sigature has a little effect to decrease velocity mitigation) It would give you extra damage with rage torps, but their base explosion velocity is only 50m/s - you need a web anyway. on the other hand a webifier cutting that ship's velocity from 150-200m/s down to 100m/s will allow you to deal full theoretical damage out of your torps (torps explosion velocity with Target Navigation Prediction IV is roughly 100m/s) Obviously webs are very short ranged. Do not forget though, that torpedoes themselves are short ranged as well. Effective range of standard torpedo (Raven, caldari BS V, projection IV bombardment V, no range rigs) is 24km only. For other ships it's less than 20. For Javelins add 50% extra range, giving ruoghly 35km. You want to use torps against short-range npcs. Angels for example will come to 10km range. In this case web is gold. The npcs that stay away can be dealt by Javelins or MWD - even if you can't use your web torps will deal huge damage to BS flying at 150-200m/s comparing to cruise missiles. Npc's that stay away and run away from you might be better dealt by cruise missiles, as your travel time to reach them and slots taken by mwd/web/tp along with mwd cap penalty might not be worth the extra damage.
Short answer then is 1xtp + 1xweb (or web drones) for standard and javelins 2xtp + 1xweb for rage
personally I use standard torps with 1xtp and 1xweb, while carrying some Javelins for 30km away targets. I find rage torps lacking - the extra mid slot required for second tp and shorter range are too much to pay for that etra damage. Especially when standard torp damage is so huge that I spend more time aligning between belts and warping than actually shooting :)
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.04.05 15:54:00 -
[20]
You would think someone using battleship missiles would at least have a clue how they work but apparently not... _________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Khin'charin
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.05 15:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Khin''charin on 05/04/2010 15:56:27 .
wait what?!
Torp RAVENS?
Web?
Rage torps?
Webber drones?
For PVE?
Holy crapthread full of fail!
Edit: always edit! _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels. |
Axonious
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: stoicfaux 1. Don't use Rage torpedoes. You'll do more damage with regular torpedoes against almost all targets. Rage torps also have a shorter range than regular torps. (You can use Rage against big fat slow Guristas battleships, but the range reduction and ammo swapping tends to reduce the benefit.)
2. Here is the thread describing the missile damage formulas. Long story short, 1 TP should be good against big slow battleships with maybe 2 TPs for Angel battleships. Against cruisers use 2-3 TPs.
3. Here is a spreadsheet I wrote that determines your missile damage against NPCs: missile damage spreadsheet.
Thanx. Very useful information and great worksheet!
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