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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:13:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 07/04/2010 19:14:51
Originally by: Trader20 If ur in a gang of bs's (rr, camps, fleet, watever) wats the advangtages of being quicker then the rest of the gang?
If you're in a sniper gang, you should be in a MAELSTROM. If you're rolling an armor RR BS gang, you should be in a TYPHOON. One of the advantages of being able to fly anything with reasonable skills is that you have the freedom to choose the right tool for the job. The thing about it isn't that I'm trying to be "novel" or "witty" or "different" - the thing is that I'm using the ship in a way that works. And, if you bothered to read the thread you'd see that it works very well in that way. Well enough that most of us think it needs only a small nudge further in that direction - as opposed to some sort of massive overhaul if you want to try and treat the Tempest as an actual battleship. The rest of your post follows similar faulty logic.
-Liang
Ed: Don't miss SB's post on the previous page. :) -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
To mare
Amarr Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:24:00 -
[62]
tempest is almost ok. i would love to see the ship get a mass reduction (like a cheap version of the mach)
do not change its bonus or the slot layout!
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Crest Cutty
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:59:00 -
[63]
Lending my support for the increase of pest agility+speed/reduction of mass...
Reducing mass/increasing agility while increasing scan res would go miles towards making this ship fill it's unique role as a hit and run sniper/roaming gang dps platform. Giving the pest more agility would keep in line with the matar hit and run tactics while being held together with roll upon roll of duct tape.
As far as the balance issue goes...matar have been hit with the nerf bat pretty damned hard. Rapiers are pretty weaksauce, vagas aren't flown anymore by anyone with half a brain since they went up to around 140m a pop (cynbals fotm, maybe t2 insurance will fix this though), lol matar caps, claymore suffers from the same problem as the other fleet command ships, mael is a damned slow sniper ship (but good in pve) and the pest is struggling for an identity. T1 frigs/cruisers, assault ships, eaf's are pretty lol all around
Cane and munin's are cool, slepi is fun in small gangs, phoon requires 40m sp to be effective but works, scimi works, sabre is too damned expensive, <3 stileto (although it's suffering from "because of dramiel")
I'd like to see the pest either take over as the sniper ship of choice (increase locking distance, more scan res, a bit more grid/cap to fit rr, swap a mid <-> low) and relegate the mael to the pve roll it excels at or Give it an unique roll as an over-sized BC (undersized bs?) increase speed+agility, increase shield hp/reduce armor, more cpu for shield rr, more scan res.
on a side note: I'd love to see the phoon get rid of that stupid split weapon system, get a bonus to armor resists and become the flying tank it should really be. Would go a long way to defining matar bs roles since you wouldn't have the case of "but the phoon can do that..."
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:24:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 07/04/2010 19:14:51
Originally by: Trader20 If ur in a gang of bs's (rr, camps, fleet, watever) wats the advangtages of being quicker then the rest of the gang?
If you're in a sniper gang, you should be in a MAELSTROM. If you're rolling an armor RR BS gang, you should be in a TYPHOON. One of the advantages of being able to fly anything with reasonable skills is that you have the freedom to choose the right tool for the job. The thing about it isn't that I'm trying to be "novel" or "witty" or "different" - the thing is that I'm using the ship in a way that works. And, if you bothered to read the thread you'd see that it works very well in that way. Well enough that most of us think it needs only a small nudge further in that direction - as opposed to some sort of massive overhaul if you want to try and treat the Tempest as an actual battleship. The rest of your post follows similar faulty logic.
-Liang
Ed: Don't miss SB's post on the previous page. :)
lol I just got done tellin u about ship roles and u write that rant that proves me right, I taught u something today, ur welcome.
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:32:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Trader20 lol I just got done tellin u about ship roles and u write that rant that proves me right, I taught u something today, ur welcome.
I'd like to take this time to point out that you're a complete idiot.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.07 21:15:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Trader20 lol I just got done tellin u about ship roles and u write that rant that proves me right, I taught u something today, ur welcome.
I'd like to take this time to point out that you're a complete idiot.
-Liang
Looks like only you are the one who is insulting people when they dont agree with you.
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 21:19:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Looks like only you are the one who is insulting people when they dont agree with you.
Which is funny, because you insult people when they DO agree with you. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2010.04.07 21:20:00 -
[68]
CCP ****ed the Tempest, making it a maega/geddon clone
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Seishi Maru
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.04.08 10:44:00 -
[69]
Problem with using the tempest as a BC is that is still too slow to tag along BC on a "best speed to XXX"order for example.
IF tempest had agility a tad better than all current non machariel Battleships, and it had the mass of the Dominix then when nanoed it could likely tag along with heavy plated BC.
Also tempest is NOT useless on a sniper gang, is jsut a bit inferior to the maelstrom. The price difference might start to mean somethign if the insurance changes are followed by introduciton of somethign to use the excessive minerals on market. Then it might start making sense to use temepst over malestrom on a few times.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.04.08 10:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Seishi Maru Problem with using the tempest as a BC is that is still too slow to tag along BC on a "best speed to XXX"order for example.
IF tempest had agility a tad better than all current non machariel Battleships, and it had the mass of the Dominix then when nanoed it could likely tag along with heavy plated BC.
Also tempest is NOT useless on a sniper gang, is jsut a bit inferior to the maelstrom. The price difference might start to mean somethign if the insurance changes are followed by introduciton of somethign to use the excessive minerals on market. Then it might start making sense to use temepst over malestrom on a few times.
Depends how you fit the pest tbh. I like to fly it as a heavy BC (damage wise that is), as such the only "standard" fit Bc's that are faster are Shield and/ or nano cane (plated cane is slower and less manoeuvrable), and any deliberately speed (nanoed) fit Bc. Plate your Bc and the pest is faster, more manoeuvrable and almost certainly gankier.
Ok so not much tank, and a fair bit more expensive than a Bc, but I've no problem with keeping up with a Bc gang. (Assuming that Bc gang is not made up solely of nano ships). And cost is not that much of an issue for me, depends on what you can afford tbh. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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The Procurer
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Posted - 2010.04.17 06:18:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Trader20 stuff...
loltroll.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.04.17 10:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: The Procurer
Originally by: Trader20 stuff...
loltroll.
lolnecro
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NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.17 12:37:00 -
[73]
Originally by: 1600 RT
Originally by: The Procurer
Originally by: Trader20 stuff...
loltroll.
lolnecro
lolwhenwas9daysanecro?.
If this had been like 1 month or something, then yeah, it would be more of a necro, but 9 days????.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:15:00 -
[74]
Minmatar BS V is on my list of things to train in the upcoming months. I intend to fly the Tempest, the only thing which may pherhaps change that would be CCPs plan to change how insurance works (I suspect that's their way of saying they'll make PvP even more costly to participate in).
People say that the Tempest doesn't meet up to other battleships and I suppose that in a way it doesn't. However, it's one of the better ships for 1vs1 BS engagements and it's a useful sniper now that they boosted artillery alpha. It's one of the better battleships for dealing with sub-BS sized targets and its agility is almost not crippled.
If you look at the Tempest as a beefed up BC it's suddenly looking alot more interesting.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:19:00 -
[75]
NightmareX - or you could fly a Maelstrom that has better EHP, better DPS and higher alpha.
You are stupid. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:26:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist NightmareX - or you could fly a Maelstrom that has better EHP, better DPS and higher alpha.
You are stupid.
Sorry, I don't fly a slow ass brick in fleet fights. Because when you get bubbled, you needs to get out of those bubbles, like very quick.
And when you use a shield tank on the Tempest, then the Tempest is actually cheaper to lose over a Maelstrom.
So no, you are the stupid one here.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:49:00 -
[77]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/04/2010 14:44:17
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist NightmareX - or you could fly a Maelstrom that has better EHP, better DPS and higher alpha.
You are stupid.
Sorry, I don't fly a slow ass brick in fleet fights. Because when you get bubbled, you needs to get out of those bubbles, like very quick.
And when you use a shield tank on the Tempest, then the Tempest is actually cheaper to lose over a Maelstrom.
And no, the Maelstrom does not have more DPS than my Tempest. The Maelstrom with 2x Gyros and 2x TE's does 716 DPS with 10692 alpha. My Tempest does 767 DPS with 10024 alpha. The Tempest have more optimal and falloff range than the Maelstrom. Maelstrom does 835 m/s, while the Tempest does 1067 m/s. And the Maelstrom have like 9k more EHP than my Tempest setup.
So the only thing that is better with the Maelstrom is like 670 more alpha and 9k more EHP lol. Not worth it at all.
So no, you are the stupid one here.
Your Maelstrom fit sure is bad if you are getting those numbers. And Mael is more than fast enough to get out of bubbles, holy crap you are dumb.
You don't use 2 Gyro + 2 TE on a Mael, you use 3 Gyros and 1 TE + 1 TC + 1 Locus rig. Why are you so stupid that you can't even fit ships properly?
Also, stop pretending your Heavy Launchers are useful at all - they're a waste of slots much like you are a waste of air. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
Psiri
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:53:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Your Maelstrom fit sure is bad if you are getting those numbers. And Mael is more than fast enough to get out of bubbles, holy crap you are dumb.
You don't use 2 Gyro + 2 TE on a Mael, you use 3 Gyros and 1 TE + 1 TC + 1 Locus rig. Why are you so stupid that you can't even fit ships properly?
Also, stop pretending your Heavy Launchers are useful at all - they're a waste of slots much like you are a waste of air.
If anything's stupid it's arguing with NightmareX in a Tempest thread. There are no winners, only losers.
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NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:57:00 -
[79]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/04/2010 15:05:06
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/04/2010 14:44:17
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist NightmareX - or you could fly a Maelstrom that has better EHP, better DPS and higher alpha.
You are stupid.
Sorry, I don't fly a slow ass brick in fleet fights. Because when you get bubbled, you needs to get out of those bubbles, like very quick.
And when you use a shield tank on the Tempest, then the Tempest is actually cheaper to lose over a Maelstrom.
And no, the Maelstrom does not have more DPS than my Tempest. The Maelstrom with 2x Gyros and 2x TE's does 716 DPS with 10692 alpha. My Tempest does 767 DPS with 10024 alpha. The Tempest have more optimal and falloff range than the Maelstrom. Maelstrom does 835 m/s, while the Tempest does 1067 m/s. And the Maelstrom have like 9k more EHP than my Tempest setup.
So the only thing that is better with the Maelstrom is like 670 more alpha and 9k more EHP lol. Not worth it at all.
So no, you are the stupid one here.
Your Maelstrom fit sure is bad if you are getting those numbers. And Mael is more than fast enough to get out of bubbles, holy crap you are dumb.
You don't use 2 Gyro + 2 TE on a Mael, you use 3 Gyros and 1 TE + 1 TC + 1 Locus rig. Why are you so stupid that you can't even fit ships properly?
Also, stop pretending your Heavy Launchers are useful at all - they're a waste of slots much like you are a waste of air.
First of all, the Maelstrom setup i used now is the standard setup we use in IT Alliance. So don't blaim me for the setup. It's the same with the Tempest, it's the standard IT Alliance setup for the Tempest.
And not only that, if you put 3 damage mods on a Mael, then for sure, i can put 3 damage mods on the Tempest again to do more dps than the Mael again, and still have more optimal and falloff than the Mael.
And it's better to use 2x HML's than nothing.
EDIT: With one Locus rig in the Maelstrom, it have 156 km optimal and 78 km falloff. But the Tempest have 152 km optimal and 84 km falloff, so the range is a little better on the Tempest anyways.
Maelstrom have longer lock range than the Tempest though. It might help a little in some situations.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.04.17 15:09:00 -
[80]
Originally by: NightmareX
First of all, the Maelstrom setup i used now is the standard setup we use in IT Alliance. So don't blaim me for the setup. It's the same with the Tempest, it's the standard IT Alliance setup for the Tempest.
shut up. no one cares, no one cares, one more time, NO ONE CARES
shut up.
If your tired of everyone not liking you, try this:
Discuss a topic at hand without saying "well my this and my that and my my my" like somehow because something is yours and your in it you can just ignore any stats and discussion at hand. And somehow people will care.
I fit a tempest the other day. For the role, I realized I would have been much better off fitting a phoon. It was then I remembered why it has been so long since I fit a tempest.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the ship.
Fact is the maelstrom DID replace the major roles of the tempest and while it is still a very versatile, not enough to justify it.
You can't do much to it that I can think of without just increasing it's speed/mobility/agility/whatever and just make it the #1 zoom around pimpmobile... which I would completely support
I also think the armor and shield was fine the way it was.
"A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game." |
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NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.17 15:12:00 -
[81]
When you look at the total stats on the Tempest and the Maelstrom they are about equal in performance. End of story.
Something the Tempest is better than the Maelstrom at and then the Maelstrom is better than Tempest in something other.
So it's all about what you prefer in fleet fights.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.04.17 16:44:00 -
[82]
"Standard IT fit" - haha.
At snipe range:
Your fit does 329 DPS at 152+84 with ~69k EHP, 5811 alpha. Maelstrom (with proper fit) does 395 DPS at 152+72 with ~73.5k (pre overload) EHP, 6552 alpha.
You want to argue that the Tempest is better because it has higher speed and 10k more falloff?
Stop being dumb, NoobmareX. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.17 16:55:00 -
[83]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/04/2010 16:58:59 EDIT: Reply will come.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.04.17 17:10:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 17/04/2010 17:10:47 ...HMLs...
And yeah, let's compare sniper BS at sub 80k range.
Why are you so stupid
Also, since you seem to ignore it - Maelstrom does more DPS at close range too.
626 vs 682. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.17 17:12:00 -
[85]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/04/2010 17:16:37
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 17/04/2010 17:10:47 ...HMLs...
And yeah, let's compare sniper BS at sub 80k range.
Why are you so stupid
Also, since you seem to ignore it - Maelstrom does more DPS at close range too.
626 vs 682.
You clearly haven't seen how NC fight against us do you?.
NC use to warp out and warp into us at like 30-40 km on us alot. But since we are long range fitted, we MWD a bit out from them. So we are pretty often inside 100 km to them.
It's only when we are sitting and waiting on them on a gate that we are like 150-180 km from them. Or when we warp into them. But that's before they warp out and warp in on us again.
Maelstrom does more damage at close range before you fit the 2x HML's on the Tempest.
EDIT: Please say me that you don't use Heavy Drones on fleet setups?.
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2010.04.17 18:34:00 -
[86]
I like threads with Tempests and especially NightmareX inside^^
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.04.17 19:25:00 -
[87]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/04/2010 18:39:41
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 17/04/2010 17:10:47 ...HMLs...
And yeah, let's compare sniper BS at sub 80k range.
Why are you so stupid
Also, since you seem to ignore it - Maelstrom does more DPS at close range too.
626 vs 682.
You clearly haven't seen how NC fight against us do you?.
NC use to warp out and warp into us at like 30-40 km on us alot. But since we are long range fitted, we MWD a bit out from them. So we are pretty often inside 60-90 km to them.
It's only when we are sitting and waiting on them on a gate that we are like 150-180 km from them. Or when we warp into them. But that's before they warp out and warp in on us again.
Maelstrom does more damage at close range before you fit the 2x HML's on the Tempest.
EDIT: Please say me that you don't use Heavy Drones on fleet setups?. Because if you do, then way to make you look ******ed, pal.
You either use Light or Medium drones or both to defend your self against smaller targets, or you use remote armor / shield rep drones so you can rep your gang mates.
If not, then your a complete noob.
It's more damage with the HMLs as well. Drones not included, obviously - that would be stupid to include.
That is with your 3 TE/2 Gyro fit on the Tempest. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
Moonmonkey
Amarr Orange Clover
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Posted - 2010.04.17 19:28:00 -
[88]
7 high 7 mid/5 mid 5 low/7 low 140 m/sec
That is how I would like to see the Tempest, being able to pick from armour or shield slot lay out at the point of manufacturing would be even better.
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lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.04.17 22:43:00 -
[89]
LOL at all the 'MY WAY IS THE ONLY RIGHT WAY TO DO IT. YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME THEREFORE YOU'RE WRONG AND STUPID' people in this thread Also, L2stay on topic.
Can't wait to fly the pest myself, just waiting for t2 large projectiles to be ready ina coupla days
Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2010.04.18 02:20:00 -
[90]
The tempy is like a new minivan that handels like a crossover and would do great with a turbo and a positronic transmission....
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