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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
70
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Posted - 2011.09.21 18:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
A couple weeks ago, I published a blog that's gotten a bit of attention. Today it was suggested that I toss it up here in General Discussion so it's not lost in the darkness of Jita Park. I've had quite a few EVEmails sent to me in the past week and I've done my best to answer them.
So, for those that missed it, I want to make clear my thoughts on the current state of EVE and my mindset going forward as a CSM member.
Reality Check
Have a read and think about where EVE is and where you want it to be. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
118
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have a feeling that the "revolution" passed already and atm people are on cautiously positive mood waiting for CCP's next (and future) moves hoping that failtrain has really returned to track again.
Time will tell... actions will shape the future.
Anyways well written blog - CSM members who keep themselves on the map and represent us with their best knowledge have earned their position and can be proud of that. Keep up the good work. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
120
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:"CCP needs to find the 'romance' of EVE again. CCP needs to fall in love with the game beyond the money it makes for them to work on other projects." Absolutely this. It doesn't feel like CCP care any more. No amount of overzealous "It's going to be amazing." can convince me otherwise.
I think the White Wolf merger and obvious stretching of resources that developing other games is causing combined with investors that CCP are now pressured to make happy have stopped CCP being able to stick to their true vision and we get RMT and such nonsense that doesn't fit with the spirit of EVE.
Seleene you are a far better CSM member than the Mittani GÖÑ "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" |
Meryl SinGarda
Homeworld Republic United Homeworlds
180
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah, what's with the CSM? You guys totally missed the train. People are calming down now. CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things and now the CSM is coming to the forums with articles like it's 4 months ago.
Fly Safe, Die Hard |
stoicfaux
240
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
From teh blog: "It just requires CCP's management to turn their heads and put resources into the things that will make those dreams a reality."
IMO, CCP is too far along and too far committed, where committed is "when it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed," for CCP to reallocate enough resources back to FiS.
Instead, the player base's main chances to get excited about Eve again are: a) WiS is implemented, or b) enough quick, dirty, and/or easy hacks can be made to improve or add to FiS. By this I mean that tweaking a database value, such as mineral allocation, is much easier and more likely to happen on limited resources than implementing new ships or a PI like feature requiring a new interface, etc..
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
226
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote: CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things
Can you name two awesome things that have been released?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Meryl SinGarda
Homeworld Republic United Homeworlds
181
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Okay, I suppose the rage certain CSM members want to incite still exists in a few people.
But seriously, do some reading.
Fly Safe, Die Hard |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
70
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Yeah, what's with the CSM? You guys totally missed the train. People are calming down now. CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things and now the CSM is coming to the forums with articles like it's 4 months ago.
What's happening now is the result of a lot of different things and we're still all waiting on whatever the 'big deal' blog is going to be. I posted about that here.
stoicfaux wrote:From teh blog: "It just requires CCP's management to turn their heads and put resources into the things that will make those dreams a reality."
IMO, CCP is too far along and too far committed, where committed is "when it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed," for CCP to reallocate enough resources back to FiS.
Instead, the player base's main chances to get excited about Eve again are: a) WiS is implemented, or b) enough quick, dirty, and/or easy hacks can be made to improve or add to FiS. By this I mean that tweaking a database value, such as mineral allocation, is much easier and more likely to happen on limited resources than implementing new ships or a PI like feature requiring a new interface, etc..
This is where CCP and the CSM are butting heads right now - we're not interested in hacks or 'fixes'. We want true iteration on neglected and unfinished features. That's what I campaigned on and that's what I continue to push for because... SPACESHIPS, right?
Incarna could have been better, but I don't think it was ever going to be the draw CCP thought, especially in its current unfinished state. Looking at subscriber trends and online numbers, the Incarna we have now has proven to be a colossally bad allocation of resources. The last time something like this happened, we got Apocrypha. It is very possible for CCP to change course if they feel the path they are on leads to quicksand.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. |
Meryl SinGarda
Homeworld Republic United Homeworlds
181
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Meryl SinGarda wrote:Yeah, what's with the CSM? You guys totally missed the train. People are calming down now. CCP are releasing all sorts of awesome things and now the CSM is coming to the forums with articles like it's 4 months ago. What's happening now is the result of a lot of different things and we're still all waiting on whatever the 'big deal' blog is going to be. I posted about that here. stoicfaux wrote:From teh blog: "It just requires CCP's management to turn their heads and put resources into the things that will make those dreams a reality."
IMO, CCP is too far along and too far committed, where committed is "when it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed," for CCP to reallocate enough resources back to FiS.
Instead, the player base's main chances to get excited about Eve again are: a) WiS is implemented, or b) enough quick, dirty, and/or easy hacks can be made to improve or add to FiS. By this I mean that tweaking a database value, such as mineral allocation, is much easier and more likely to happen on limited resources than implementing new ships or a PI like feature requiring a new interface, etc.. This is where CCP and the CSM are butting heads right now - we're not interested in hacks or 'fixes'. We want true iteration on neglected and unfinished features. That's what I campaigned on and that's what I continue to push for because... SPACESHIPS, right? Incarna could have been better, but I don't think it was ever going to be the draw CCP thought, especially in its current unfinished state. Looking at subscriber trends and online numbers, the Incarna we have now has proven to be a colossally bad allocation of resources. The last time something like this happened, we got Apocrypha. It is very possible for CCP to change course if they feel the path they are on leads to quicksand.
So the devblog about CCP coming back with features people have been kicking and screaming for, returning, isn't the big ol' dev blog? I mean, I've been pretty content all along. Incarna is something I've wanted and the December expansion sounds like it'll be pretty nice, even considering older features are being re-implemented simply because a lot of people couldn't adapt.
And no, not just SPACESHIPS. There is more to EVE life than steel and thrusters.
Fly Safe, Die Hard |
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Reasonable blog, I have only a problem with it.
Why it is a blog on a outside site?
This kind of stuff should be published in Jita Park, not scattered in the personal blogs of the CSM members around all the web. I am not interested in casing the blogs of the CSM members. They should be meant for the players constituency and published where all the players interested in the EVE forums can easily see them. There is a strong tendency in this CSM to publish things on outside sites, do "fireplace discussions" on outside channels and so on. For me that is the same of a total lack of communication. There is a section of this forum that is dedicated to that kind of thing, try using it.
If for some reason you can't post the blog as you wish it to appear (placing images in it and so on) place a reduced version in Jita park and lik the extended version, but don't neglect Jita part and use a outside site as your main line of communication.
You have posted this stuff in the Jita park corner too and that is a good thing, but I rarely see CSM posts there. Way rarely than with previous CSM. |
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stoicfaux
240
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Seleene wrote: This is where CCP and the CSM are butting heads right now - we're not interested in hacks or 'fixes'. We want true iteration on neglected and unfinished features. That's what I campaigned on and that's what I continue to push for because... SPACESHIPS, right?
I understand. However, I don't think that's a realistic stance to take anymore.
IMHO, if WoD fails, then CCP fails, which means that Eve fails. There's too much at stake with WoD for CCP to prioritize FiS over WoD (and DUST) right now. If push comes to shove, I can see CCP cannibalizing Eve to try to save WoD over abandoning WoD to keep Eve alive.
Therefore, IMHO, the CSM's best chances for FiS changes in the near to medium term is to target the features and fixes that can be reasonably implemented by whatever limited pool of CCP resources FiS has available.
Which leads me to ask, does the CSM know what level of Dev/Art/etc. resources are available for FiS work? If not, then I would request that you all find out and try to tailor the FiS feature/fix list to match the resources available.
Quote:... the Incarna we have now has proven to be a colossally bad allocation of resources. The last time something like this happened, we got Apocrypha. It is very possible for CCP to change course if they feel the path they are on leads to quicksand.
Yes, and I think it's good for the CSM, subs, and players to apply pressure on CCP to try to free up additional WiS resources, but to do so without jeopardizing WoD, upon which CCP's future (and Eve's future) depends.
P.S. I do appreciate the effort that the CSM is putting forth. Thank you all.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
71
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Venkul Mul wrote:Reasonable blog, I have only a problem with it.
Why it is a blog on a outside site?
This kind of stuff should be published in Jita Park, not scattered in the personal blogs of the CSM members around all the web. I am not interested in casing the blogs of the CSM members. They should be meant for the players constituency and published where all the players interested in the EVE forums can easily see them. There is a strong tendency in this CSM to publish things on outside sites, do "fireplace discussions" on outside channels and so on. For me that is the same of a total lack of communication. There is a section of this forum that is dedicated to that kind of thing, try using it.
If for some reason you can't post the blog as you wish it to appear (placing images in it and so on) place a reduced version in Jita park and lik the extended version, but don't neglect Jita part and use a outside site as your main line of communication.
I did this on the original forums.
But, point taken. I'll make sure to post a thread there linking any new blog posts I make.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
227
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Venkul Mul wrote:Reasonable blog, I have only a problem with it.
Why it is a blog on a outside site?
This kind of stuff should be published in Jita Park, not scattered in the personal blogs of the CSM members around all the web. I am not interested in casing the blogs of the CSM members. They should be meant for the players constituency and published where all the players interested in the EVE forums can easily see them. There is a strong tendency in this CSM to publish things on outside sites, do "fireplace discussions" on outside channels and so on. For me that is the same of a total lack of communication. There is a section of this forum that is dedicated to that kind of thing, try using it.
If for some reason you can't post the blog as you wish it to appear (placing images in it and so on) place a reduced version in Jita park and lik the extended version, but don't neglect Jita part and use a outside site as your main line of communication.
You have posted this stuff in the Jita park corner too and that is a good thing, but I rarely see CSM posts there. Way rarely than with previous CSM.
CCP can't delete off-site blogs. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
227
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 20:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:
Yes, and I think it's good for the CSM, subs, and players to apply pressure on CCP to try to free up additional WiS resources, but to do so without jeopardizing WoD, upon which CCP's future (and Eve's future) depends.
It's not the CSM's job to give a rat's ass about WoD.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Takashi Kaeda
ZED Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey Seleene aren't you the ex-CCP dev who **** all over EVE sov with the terrible that was Dominion? |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
71
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Incarna is something I've wanted
I was never completely opposed to it, just the terrible roll out after waiting the better part of 5 years since the first demo at FanFest 2006.
Meryl SinGarda wrote:And no, not just SPACESHIPS. There is more to EVE life than steel and thrusters.
Perhaps so, but CCP has done a poor job of showing us that life so far. In a perfect game, we'd have both but right now my main focus is on fixing the stuff that has sat stagnant for years before seeing even more resources allocated to Incarna.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
71
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:stoicfaux wrote:
Yes, and I think it's good for the CSM, subs, and players to apply pressure on CCP to try to free up additional WiS resources, but to do so without jeopardizing WoD, upon which CCP's future (and Eve's future) depends.
It's not the CSM's job to give a rat's ass about WoD.
Pretty much this.
Takashi Kaeda wrote:Hey Seleene aren't you the ex-CCP dev who **** all over EVE sov with the terrible that was Dominion?
Heh. Go read the blog if you wanna know my feelings on the awesome-ness of Dominion. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
72
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Which leads me to ask, does the CSM know what level of Dev/Art/etc. resources are available for FiS work?
At this exact moment, no. It is something we've been informed of in the past and that we ask for. With winter on the way, we should know more soon.
Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. |
Meryl SinGarda
Homeworld Republic United Homeworlds
181
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Meryl SinGarda wrote:Incarna is something I've wanted I was never completely opposed to it, just the terrible roll out after waiting the better part of 5 years since the first demo at FanFest 2006. Meryl SinGarda wrote:And no, not just SPACESHIPS. There is more to EVE life than steel and thrusters. Perhaps so, but CCP has done a poor job of showing us that life so far. In a perfect game, we'd have both but right now my main focus is on fixing the stuff that has sat stagnant for years before seeing even more resources allocated to Incarna.
And I've never disagreed with having stagnant issues fixed. I would simply like to see the current expansion/addition in its final state.
Fly Safe, Die Hard |
Smoking Blunts
27
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Posted - 2011.09.21 21:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
seeing as i voted for you, im gonan say this.
why did you not start turning up the heat on ccp when the players started to mass quit?
im not just talking about getting the ship spinning hanger back, im talking about all the wasted time and effort they put in to a 1/4 finished product and push that out as a 'expansion' .
i just dont get it. now you and mittens start banging on about something that was very aparent to most of the players on day 1, 3 or so months ago. maybe you were doing this behind closed doors, but it would have been reassuring (not in a mummy daddy reassuring way, more in i didnt waste my time voting way)to know that you were doing it back then at the start.
i am awaiting this blog, if only to see the results of these closed meetings you guys have been having CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Dark Deviant
nul-li-fy Atlas.
15
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Posted - 2011.09.21 21:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
I enjoyed the blog. I also appreciate you advocating for the player-base and vision that will help advance the game.
I did start to think outside of the box regarding underlining reasons for this vision-drift. I have to admit that part of my thinking started during a cable news story about the US Bail-out of the Banking Industry. So here are my thoughts:
- CCP and White Wolf merged in 2006 and started to develop WoD. I assume WoD as an MMO was part of that agreement. Kudo's for picking an IP that would take off in 2008 with the Twilight movie series starting!
- Developing a new MMO takes time and I'm sure a couple year's of planning were started to move WoD forward.
- Iceland had their economic melt-down in at the end of 2008.
- Anybody trying to get a loan to consolidate debt, refinance their home, or get a business loans would know how difficult that process became after the global financial melt down.
- I imagine that CCP's plan hit a road-block (Large Warp Disruption Field) on their way to diversifying their services (WoD, etc). Where would the financing come from? How would CCP maintain its obligations to White Wolf?
- Why ... they have an internal money tree! 300K subscriptions x $15.00 USD per month is approximately 54 Million dollars in revenue per year. Question is, how much is left after salaries, ISP, overhead, marketing, etc? What if we reallocate some of our talent and revenue to help us follow through on our business obligations?!?
I guess I'm trying to say that I think CCP is doing their best to continue with business obligations and agreements surrounding a merger, while developing spin-off titles like Dust 514 that will indirectly provide free advertising for EVE. I can't blame CCP for reallocating resources to meet their obligations. I do hope that a 'soon' launch of Dust 514 will provide more financial reserves to develop EVE again. As those projects come to closure, CCP may be able to reallocate some of the talent to help develop EVE again.
Thinking about this also helps me understand the micro-transaction idea. More quick revenue in a loan-free world.
Just some thoughts on how real world economics may impact long-term goals. Just a guess that CCP may have reallocated internal resources to help them potentially meet those goals. |
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 22:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: CCP can't delete off-site blogs.
"Evil CCP will remove it" is the worst excuse I have seen. The CSM can post a extended blog on whatever forum they like, but at least a condensed version should be in the EVE forum. CCP would have reasons ot remove them only if the CSM member was violating the NDA, but then violating the NDA even on a outside blog is a good reason for removal from the CSM and banning. If the CSM feel they are censured on the forum they should come out and say it and/or leave their position as there no reason to support "evil CCP" staying in the CSM. So your is simply a strawman argument.
Apology to Selene and the CSM as the above comment is aimed at Malcanis, not at the CSM.
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2011.09.21 22:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Venkul Mul wrote:Apology to Selene and the CSM as the above comment is aimed at Malcanis, not at the CSM. Why are you spending time responding to Malcanis? He's a bigger troll than I am.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Frozen Eddie Johnson
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 22:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote: stuff
You seem to have some of CCP's special gravy dripping from your chin, there. I'd wipe it off for you, but judging by the rest of your posts on this forum, it gets reapplied too frequently to matter. |
Archy Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 23:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:Likes received: 0
Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say. |
Frozen Eddie Johnson
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 23:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Archy Mayaki wrote:Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:Likes received: 0 Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say.
Oh noes, you have 2 more likes than me on spacebook, when this is probably my first post on the new forums. Whatever will I do. |
Archy Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 23:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:Archy Mayaki wrote:Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:Likes received: 0 Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say. Oh noes, you have 2 more likes than me on spacebook, when this is probably my first post on the new forums. Whatever will I do.
U Jelly? |
Frozen Eddie Johnson
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 23:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Archy Mayaki wrote:Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:Archy Mayaki wrote:Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:Likes received: 0 Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say. Oh noes, you have 2 more likes than me on spacebook, when this is probably my first post on the new forums. Whatever will I do. U Jelly?
I would be, but no, because you're bald. |
xxxak
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2011.09.21 23:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Damn that was well done. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
4
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Posted - 2011.09.22 04:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
You go girl. |
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