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Boreanna
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:41:00 -
[1]
I haven't been playing long, but I've discussed this with people who have been playing for years. It seems the problem started when probing was changed. For those of you who don't follow me, I'm referring to people probing you down, going into your mission and getting whatever item you need to complete it, then ransoming it to you for whatever they want to charge. If you don't pay, you will have to quit the mission and take a faction hit. Sure, we need piracy. The game wouldn't be fun without it. Take my money, sure. You're a pirate that's what you do. Some day when I grow up, I may want to be a pirate. THIS practice however takes away peoples ability to make money and is a game flaw that needs to be corrected. Most of the seasoned players I've talked to no longer do missions for that reason and I don't blame em. No one should be able to ruin someone's STANDINGS.That's just wrong. If probing someone into a mission can't or won't be changed, how about changing the items to things like 10 militants.Something cheap so that it's more about being flagged for having killed the final ship(s). There needs to be at least missions as a safe haven for making money and standings so you can get more ships to throw in the meat grinder. If you can't even do that, you can't play.
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:44:00 -
[2]
I agree with OP.
Every mission should have a mission-specific item to turn down to complete the mission.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:45:00 -
[3]
This is only a problem in heavily overpopulated mission hub systems. If you run missions for any agent that's a little less "crowded", you will notice that this "problem" practically vanishes. Also, you have the choice of simply turning down missions where you have to bring back "specific object X" if for some obscure reason you can't be bothered to leave the hub system.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Boreanna There needs to be at least missions as a safe haven for making money and standings so you can get more ships to throw in the meat grinder. If you can't even do that, you can't play.
There are, they are called courier missions.
Of course, any time you undock, you run the risk of meeting another player. That's one of the integral design features of EVE I think. If you dislike playing with other people so much, there's always Tetris on your gameboy or something.
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Bibbleibble on 08/04/2010 12:45:33 Of course, when you're whining in order to take away someone's way of making money, that's all fair and good...
But if they do it to you, that's unfair!
Am I the only one seeing the hypocrisy here?
Oh, and because it's relevant, this.
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Mey Alman
Jonferson Space Dynamics Division
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:46:00 -
[6]
How about an RP solution:
Agent: Complete Mission, Abandon Mission, *** took the Item
Game checks if *** really has the item (Agents seem to have connections :) ) faction hit for *** for interfering with state matters --> mission complete (secret agents get the item back)
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.04.08 12:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mey Alman How about an RP solution:
Agent: Complete Mission, Abandon Mission, *** took the Item
Game checks if *** really has the item (Agents seem to have connections :) ) faction hit for *** for interfering with state matters --> mission complete (secret agents get the item back)
Station Trade
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.08 13:02:00 -
[8]
so you want less risk for missions?
first it was the lofty scam that was nerfed now you wnat mission thieves to be nerfed? -----------------------------------------------
I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion.
I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra |
Schani Kratnorr
x13 IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.08 13:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Boreanna I haven't been playing long, but I've discussed this with people who have been playing for years. It seems the problem started when probing was changed. For those of you who don't follow me, I'm referring to people probing you down, going into your mission and getting whatever item you need to complete it, then ransoming it to you for whatever they want to charge.
That is just piracy.
Originally by: Boreanna If you don't pay, you will have to quit the mission and take a faction hit. Sure, we need piracy. The game wouldn't be fun without it. Take my money, sure. You're a pirate that's what you do. Some day when I grow up, I may want to be a pirate.
I think you should start now, and leave the NPC agents alone.
Originally by: Boreanna THIS practice however takes away peoples ability to make money and is a game flaw that needs to be corrected.
Why though? You do not provide a valid reason. It does not in any way inflinge on anyones ability to earn ISK. They should attempt to adjust their game play to reduce the chances of being robbed. Someone pointed this out already, and they are correct. Go somewhere else and do missions there instead.
Originally by: Boreanna Most of the seasoned players I've talked to no longer do missions for that reason and I don't blame em.
Why mention this? The reason most seasoned players do not do mission is because they are bored with them - but that is another discussion altogether.
Originally by: Boreanna No one should be able to ruin someone's STANDINGS.That's just wrong.
Why though? It is not like anyone is systematically ruining everyones game. These thieves are simply preying on the weak. The habitual agent grinders who blatantly refuse to relocate will succumb to habitual thieves.
Originally by: Boreanna If probing someone into a mission can't or won't be changed, how about changing the items to things like 10 militants.Something cheap so that it's more about being flagged for having killed the final ship(s).
I do not get it. Why would you change probing? If you mean "change the missions so it is impossible for others to interact with the missions runner," then I am afraid that would go against the fundamentals of EVE (sandbox, etc.)
Originally by: Boreanna There needs to be at least missions as a safe haven for making money and standings so you can get more ships to throw in the meat grinder. If you can't even do that, you can't play.
I am tempted.... must resist.... arrgh!
WoW instances THAT way -> (stuff can I have?)
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.04.08 13:16:00 -
[10]
Mission theft should work like this: You scan down a mission runner at a mission location and manage to fill the mission objective before the mission runner, either by blowing up more ships (bounty wise) in a kill mission or acquiring the mission objective item. If that happens, the agent will contact you and offer you the reward and the mission runner will end up empty handed.
This would be mission theft. Everything else is just bawbawbaw. --------
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.08 13:31:00 -
[11]
Stealing's getting old. The new in thing which is fairly recent (after the salvage nerf) is ninja missioning. They come in and provide additional dps against your mission NPCs
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: eliminator2 first it was the lofty scam that was nerfed now you wnat mission thieves to be nerfed?
How can you compare that? Against the lofty, there was no possible defense. Against someone stealing a mission item, there is at least in theory the option to kill him afterwards. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:29:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Gunnanmon on 08/04/2010 14:31:09
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr inflinge
I need to look this word up. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind Against the lofty, there was no possible defense.
Sure there was...intense paranoia of anyone who offers to help.
Originally by: GM Horse I've sadly misplaced my magic "find farmers in ravens" button.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 08/04/2010 14:50:54
Originally by: Boreanna Most of the seasoned players I've talked to no longer do missions for that reason and I don't blame em.
Pulling that out of yer sleeve ain't ya? Please, do name a few.
Must say I had it happen once to my main, and lo and behold it happened 1 jump from a mission hub. My damsel (in even more distress now) was nicked away from me. Was offered a 5 mil contract to get her back, told the guy I rather take the standing hit (I don't make deals with "terrorists") and instantly moved away from the mission hub. Never ever saw this happen again. And if it would, so what? After all this mission whoring I have more then enough standing to waste.
Working as intended.
Edit:
Quote: There needs to be at least missions as a safe haven for making money and standings so you can get more ships to throw in the meat grinder. If you can't even do that, you can't play.
You know what? Lets make them instances! Your own privi combat zone like in that game I'm not allowed to write down here. FUN!!!
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Savatar Mei
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:46:00 -
[16]
wont the mission respawn during downtime? not to sure tbh, sometimes the mission item can be bought on the market...
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Boreanna
Most of the seasoned players I've talked to no longer do missions for that reason and I don't blame em.
Utter bull**** strikes your credibility for wrecking damage.
Your thread is out of control
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Savatar Mei wont the mission respawn during downtime? not to sure tbh, sometimes the mission item can be bought on the market...
Once the mission objective has been cleared it will not re spawn. And you'll not find a damsel in distress on the market floor.
(cough)
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2010.04.08 15:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Boreanna Some day when I grow up, I may want to be a pirate.
This made me
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.04.08 15:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Savatar Mei wont the mission respawn during downtime? not to sure tbh, sometimes the mission item can be bought on the market...
Once the mission objective has been cleared it will not re spawn. And you'll not find a damsel in distress on the market floor.
(cough)
You can petition to have the mission reset though, there have been times where I've managed to lose/trash a needed item for a mission, I tell this to a GM, he resets the mission, problem solved.
As for the OP's problem:
Change mission running systems. Seriously. I've been running missions for a long, long time and I've encountered a total of 2 ninja salvagers in the last 6 months, and not once had a thief get a needed mission item. Your problem is that you're mission running in the motsu or dodixie area, don't do that.
And I hate to break this to you, but eve's designed specifically to make it possible to stop other people from making money. Gatecamp a system and haulers can't get through, blow up a jump bridge and people can't use their shortcuts to move their loot, sit next to a miner and steal his ore and you severely tank the isk he can make. That's eve, if you don't like it, there are many, many other games that are more carebear oriented out there. |
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Varesk
Gallente Maelstrom Crew Underworld Excavators
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Posted - 2010.04.08 15:41:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Varesk on 08/04/2010 15:42:40
Originally by: Boreanna
THIS practice however takes away peoples ability to make money and is a game flaw that needs to be corrected. Most of the seasoned players I've talked to no longer do missions for that reason and I don't blame em. No one should be able to ruin someone's STANDINGS.That's just wrong. If probing someone into a mission can't or won't be changed, how about changing the items to things like 10 militants.Something cheap so that it's more about being flagged for having killed the final ship(s). There needs to be at least missions as a safe haven for making money and standings so you can get more ships to throw in the meat grinder. If you can't even do that, you can't play.
one mission item is not preventing you from making isk, you made your isk from the bounties and slavage. the standing hit you take for not completing one mission isnt going to kill you. either pay the ninja guy or move on. your mission safe haven is high sec, its not 100 percent safe, buts its the safest you will get in EVE.
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Eelis Kiy
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.08 15:55:00 -
[22]
1. Welcome to Eve 2. try a petition 3. run missions in quieter systems d. steal the item off someone elses mission 5. buy the item off contracts 6. drop the mission and take a new one 7. ?????? 8. Profit?
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>>where the frack is my ship?<< |
eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.08 16:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Originally by: eliminator2 first it was the lofty scam that was nerfed now you wnat mission thieves to be nerfed?
How can you compare that? Against the lofty, there was no possible defense. Against someone stealing a mission item, there is at least in theory the option to kill him afterwards.
actually there was against lofty scam
dnt join there gang WALLA simple -----------------------------------------------
I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion.
I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra |
Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.04.08 16:35:00 -
[24]
I have no issue with this at all or in fact anything that interferes with mission runners. If they (we) insist on staying in one place, which by the way pays terrible rewards and LP compared to the same mission in other places, then that is a decision with should have consequences.
I have noticed CCP, rightly, do allow mechanics which exploit the lemming mentality we have in this game. There is a reason why scanning became a lot easier (other than WH's) and the sig radius bonus was removed from missions. That moves the responsibility to the mission runner as it should.
I realise the op is talking about standings only but really it's all avoidable and the hit very small anyway. Its only if you do it twice in four hours it gets big.
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Lexx Khadar
Minmatar Tourian Guard
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Posted - 2010.04.08 16:46:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Lexx Khadar on 08/04/2010 16:47:08 Nothing needs to be done with Mission "thieves". Unless its in your cargo hold its at risk. Deal with it. Missions in hi sec are a safe haven for making isk. There needs to be even more risk in my opinion.
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Gilm
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:01:00 -
[26]
I had a fun experience with a Ninja Salvager in a L4 last night.
I'm in the second room of my mission when I see a catalyst show up as I was just finishing up the last piece of salvage in the room. The catalyst moves into the third room, which I haven't even touched yet. We start some fun banter in Local, he claiming to be new to EVE and all. I finally get back to the gate and warp into the third room. I clear out the initial group and salvage like 4 out of 5. I think the 'Ninja' managed to get one.
And then, I wait. And wait some more. More banter, he threatens to bump me into aggro range, so I orbit him. He then moves on to aggro the rats himself. Now this is where the fun starts. There were still a few frigs out there. And they were the Warp Scramble kind. I pull my drones, and watch him pop, proceed to clear the mission, salvage my wrecks, and his. I had to run back with my indy to pick up some of the larger pieces of loot and managed to find about 5 mil worth of stuff in the 'Ninja's' can. I take it, warp back, dock up for 15 minutes.
It was a fun experience for me. Wish it would happen to more Ninjas!
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Desdemona Neptune
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:11:00 -
[27]
Partially agree with OP.
This is related to ninja salvaging, about which there have been numerous threads and debates. There is a difference however, in terms of game/story logic:
Ninja salvagers scan down your ship, warp to it, and discover wrecks floating in space -- which, according to the "law" of New Eden, belong to no-one and can be salvaged by whoever gets there first.
But what story logic supports stealing mission rewards? The mission was given to an individual pilot, by an agent; some of them are even specifically written as "secret" this or that. So how would another pilot, warping onto a scanned-down ship, know that a non-descript cargo can or janitor or whatever is worth ransoming?
I'm a firm believer in the "sandbox" concept of EVE; while I think salvage ninjas are perhaps the lamest people in EVE, I also recognize that what they're doing is completely legit according to the rules of the game.
But stealing npc items or characters required for completing missions seems like a borderline exploit -- certainly it's not what CCP had in mind; while it's still "allowed," i.e. CONCORD doesn't show up and waste you for doing it, I think this is a game design oversight, not an intention, and should be corrected.
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Bongo Debbie
Minmatar Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:16:00 -
[28]
Missions are boring and not a good way of making money. The only advantage I can see is to gain access to good locator agents.
Funny that it's always those that blame everyone else for their own failings that whine the loudest and demand the most changes just to suit their selfish views. Learn to adapt, and realise that your opinion is not necessarily the right one. ----
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:36:00 -
[29]
If somebody comes into your mission and steals your mission item you are allowed to pop them. Lock up the invader when they enter the mission. If they steal your mission item, warp scramble them and open fire. Concord will not intervene because they are flagged. You may even get a KM out of the deal.
So...whats the problem again?
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 08/04/2010 17:39:10
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Savatar Mei wont the mission respawn during downtime? not to sure tbh, sometimes the mission item can be bought on the market...
Once the mission objective has been cleared it will not re spawn. And you'll not find a damsel in distress on the market floor.
(cough)
You can petition to have the mission reset though, there have been times where I've managed to lose/trash a needed item for a mission, I tell this to a GM, he resets the mission, problem solved.
Well then it seems it depends on the GM who handles your case, which looks inconsistent to me. Because, I did petition my stolen damsel in the faint hope that it being stolen from me was a bad thing, but my GM response was something like: "sorry cannot do anything, you better fight over her, she's one pretty damsel, have fun."
Originally by: Bongo Debbie Missions are boring and not a good way of making money.
I agree with the boring part but what the heck do you mean with the rest of that part I quoted? You are so, dead, wrong.
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