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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:05:00 -
[1]
So the concept is simple: make a hybrid system similar to how kill rights work, only apply it to neutral RR being used in high sec wars.
If a neutral party remote reps anyone currently in a war, they become a valid war target FOR THE DURATION OF THAT WAR. Period. Problem solved. If CCP can do it for kill rights, they can apply the exact same mechanic/flagging to someone who remote reps a war target of yours. Easy peasy.
You want to stick your nose in someone else's war? Go right ahead. Just be prepared to pay the consequences. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:09:00 -
[2]
Edited by: darius mclever on 12/04/2010 10:11:55 this would get amusing with someone repping faction warfare targets ;)
but i like the general direction of this idea. though another problem i see here ... will those new wartargets be charged aswell?
lets say: - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp B during the war. will corp A get charged? - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp A. now ... does corp C get charged for the war?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 12/04/2010 10:11:55 this would get amusing with someone repping faction warfare targets ;)
but i like the general direction of this idea. though another problem i see here ... will those new wartargets be charged aswell?
lets say: - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp B during the war. will corp A get charged? - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp A. now ... does corp C get charged for the war?
Not corps, individuals. The flag would apply to the individual RRing, not their entire corp. And no, absolutely no increase in any sort of war fees. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Ned Black
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 12/04/2010 10:11:55 this would get amusing with someone repping faction warfare targets ;)
but i like the general direction of this idea. though another problem i see here ... will those new wartargets be charged aswell?
lets say: - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp B during the war. will corp A get charged? - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp A. now ... does corp C get charged for the war?
Personally I would say that neither.
- Corp A wardec Corp B. Player C RR Corp B during an engagement. - Player C is now red blinky to Corp A for the duration of the war. The red blinky status of Player C is in effect no matter how many times Corp A kills Player C for as long as the war lasts.
This would be the best option in my book. You can use neutral reppers, but after using them once in that war they are vulnerable... so using your main miner/mission running character as a RR may be a bit risky in the long run.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:30:00 -
[5]
It is a very elegant solution to a most difficult problem. My concern is that it would penalise the neutral RR in FW a lot as it is technically a war without end.
Not sure how much time would be required to discourage the practise, perhaps a reset at DT would be sufficient to achieve the desired result.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida My concern is that it would penalise the neutral RR in FW a lot as it is technically a war without end.
Good, ***ness like that should be penalized, but yeah I do see the problem. Just make the flag last a limited but inconvenient amount of time in the case of FW, say a week, that would stop the Amon Xenos of this game and their ilk.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:58:00 -
[7]
This would go a long way to solving the RR problem. I am not sure what the game mechanics of adding an individual to a war dec would entail, but this issue does need to be addressed.
------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida It is a very elegant solution to a most difficult problem. My concern is that it would penalise the neutral RR in FW a lot as it is technically a war without end.
Not sure how much time would be required to discourage the practise, perhaps a reset at DT would be sufficient to achieve the desired result.
imho ... if you repair your friend in the militia ... your friend('s corp) would need to leave the militia to release you from the militia aggression. just until next DT is not harsh enough.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: lookatzebirdie Good, ***ness like that should be penalized, but yeah I do see the problem. Just make the flag last a limited but inconvenient amount of time in the case of FW, say a week, that would stop the Amon Xenos of this game and their ilk.
Wow with your pants that tightly bunched no wonder you are bitter. Neutral RR has been in use by everyone since the beginning .. hell, half of the logistics the Minmatar used were from SF at one point. Not good pretending you are on a high horse when all you have is a pony.
Originally by: darius mclever imho ... if you repair your friend in the militia ... your friend('s corp) would need to leave the militia to release you from the militia aggression. just until next DT is not harsh enough.
Like I said, no idea when it becomes less attractive, but corp-drop sounds reasonable enough. Would remove neutral RR entirely very quickly unless the RR pilot actually becomes registered as a WT so he can also fight back if attacked (cannot do that currently until someone actually makes use of the flag). Not sure which state is better, permanent flag or full-fledged target.
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Mr w33dS
Global Gang Bangers Two Inch Terror
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:16:00 -
[10]
WOW you guys all are a bunch of crybears. I got some suggestions to make your eve experience better for you.
A) QUIT PLAYING EVE B) STOP PVPING...."you suck already we know this cause you dont have enough friends to RR you" C) LEARN TO USE GAME MECHANICS IN YOUR FAVOR: Its not hard they gave you all the tools, they are right in front of you : ) D) STOP BEING SO NUB
Maybe CCP doesn't wanna fix it huh ever thing of that. DONT FIX WHATS NOT BROKEN
LEARN TO 3V3 YOU NUBS
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:18:00 -
[11]
oh we use the game mechanics to fight the RR then ;) dont worry.
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Mr w33dS
Global Gang Bangers Two Inch Terror
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:26:00 -
[12]
The RR is red flashy, you can then shoot him. Thats game mechanics working in your favor
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mr w33dS The RR is red flashy, you can then shoot him. Thats game mechanics working in your favor
they dont have aggression and dock up when ever they get shot ... not really much of a punishment.
lets see how many will still provide RR if they get valid targets during the war
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Mr w33dS
Global Gang Bangers Two Inch Terror
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:55:00 -
[14]
so we should cry and cry till it gets fixed huh? maybe we should stop pvping, or playing in general till it gets fixed huh? Maybe we should grow a sack fill it with balls and HARDEN THE FU[K UP.
Ok lets say they do the said change you CRYBEARS ask for...what other things can they do to make High sec a more "SAFE" place to be?? HMM maybe the Republic Fleet EMP i shoot out of my guns will turn into smiles and rainbows and i can spread chear through all of the lands. But until then business as usual...ill go back to blowing things up and giving you CryBEARS something to go out and mine for....mins to build new ships.
I think its time to get back in the fields and pick my ore TRIGGERS
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.04.12 14:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mr w33dS so we should cry and cry till it gets fixed huh? maybe we should stop pvping, or playing in general till it gets fixed huh? Maybe we should grow a sack fill it with balls and HARDEN THE FU[K UP.
Ok lets say they do the said change you CRYBEARS ask for...what other things can they do to make High sec a more "SAFE" place to be?? HMM maybe the Republic Fleet EMP i shoot out of my guns will turn into smiles and rainbows and i can spread chear through all of the lands. But until then business as usual...ill go back to blowing things up and giving you CryBEARS something to go out and mine for....mins to build new ships.
I think its time to get back in the fields and pick my ore TRIGGERS
My cyber senses tell me that this poster flies a commander fitted Faction battleship that never leaves undock range, and even then has to have 20 odd friends fitted out to RR him in case he gets targetted.
And just for the record how the hell does this idea make high sec safer?
Reducing the ability of people to survive in a war makes it less safe, not the other way round.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.12 14:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 12/04/2010 14:31:44
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: lookatzebirdie Good, ***ness like that should be penalized, but yeah I do see the problem. Just make the flag last a limited but inconvenient amount of time in the case of FW, say a week, that would stop the Amon Xenos of this game and their ilk.
Wow with your pants that tightly bunched no wonder you are bitter. Neutral RR has been in use by everyone since the beginning .. hell, half of the logistics the Minmatar used were from SF at one point. Not good pretending you are on a high horse when all you have is a pony.
Aye, was never keen on SF sticking their role playing snouts in either, you have a fair point Just more likely to remember the ones opposed to you and Xeno and his guardian on an umbellical chord (exequror in plexes lol) really used to get on my t**ties.
...and yeah, my pants have worked their way up into my crack a bit *adjusts underwear*
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 15:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mr w33dS ...HMM maybe the Republic Fleet EMP i shoot out of my guns will turn into smiles and rainbows and i can spread chear through all of the lands....
If this is not what you are currently seeing your psychosis is underdeveloped. Come back when you have had your medication adjusted and is ready for the big league.
Originally by: Bibbleibble My cyber senses tell me that this poster flies a commander fitted Faction battleship that never leaves undock range, and even then has to have 20 odd friends fitted out to RR him in case he gets targetted.
Getting the same vibe so your cyber-senses do not appear to be misfiring
Originally by: lookatzebirdie Aye, was never ...
Word!
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.12 18:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mr w33dS
LEARN TO 3V3 YOU NUBS
translation : Learn to no risk station pvp like me and stop complaining in case CCP take away my safety net, I'm too scared to pvp fo' real.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:33:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida My concern is that it would penalise the neutral RR in FW a lot as it is technically a war without end.
I don't see a problem here
You're not just getting involved in a p!ssing contest between capsuleers, you're meddling in the WAR AMONG THE MIGHTY EMPIRES
Anyway I think this is an awesome idea and I wholeheartedly support it. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.12 23:17:00 -
[20]
So the consensus thus far is "yes, it's a good idea"? (discounting the one 'expert pvp' jackoff/troll) -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 23:18:00 -
[21]
+1
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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2010.04.15 01:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus So the concept is simple: make a hybrid system similar to how kill rights work, only apply it to neutral RR being used in high sec wars.
If a neutral party remote reps anyone currently in a war, they become a valid war target FOR THE DURATION OF THAT WAR. Period. Problem solved. If CCP can do it for kill rights, they can apply the exact same mechanic/flagging to someone who remote reps a war target of yours. Easy peasy.
You want to stick your nose in someone else's war? Go right ahead. Just be prepared to pay the consequences.
There would have to be some sort of box for "caution you are about to rep a war target"
Because otherwise (and still otherwise) i can see this as a way to grief(and more so than the petty griefing as current)
E.G.
Corp A wardecs dummy corp B. Dummy Corp B makes the war mutual
Dummy Corp B goes out and and attempts to get people to repair them(either a payment or whatever).
Anyone they successfully get becomes a permanent target to corp A. Forever. For Free.
I would be much more comfortable if there were a time limit, even if that time limit was long. As well, there should be aggression consequences.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.15 01:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Bellum Eternus So the concept is simple: make a hybrid system similar to how kill rights work, only apply it to neutral RR being used in high sec wars.
If a neutral party remote reps anyone currently in a war, they become a valid war target FOR THE DURATION OF THAT WAR. Period. Problem solved. If CCP can do it for kill rights, they can apply the exact same mechanic/flagging to someone who remote reps a war target of yours. Easy peasy.
You want to stick your nose in someone else's war? Go right ahead. Just be prepared to pay the consequences.
There would have to be some sort of box for "caution you are about to rep a war target"
Because otherwise (and still otherwise) i can see this as a way to grief(and more so than the petty griefing as current)
E.G.
Corp A wardecs dummy corp B. Dummy Corp B makes the war mutual
Dummy Corp B goes out and and attempts to get people to repair them(either a payment or whatever).
Anyone they successfully get becomes a permanent target to corp A. Forever. For Free.
I would be much more comfortable if there were a time limit, even if that time limit was long. As well, there should be aggression consequences.
I think there is already a warning for that.
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Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: darius mclever
lets say: - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp B during the war. will corp A get charged? - Corp A wardecs corp B, Corp C RR Corp A. now ... does corp C get charged for the war?
1. no, count is as defensive mechanism :), but in my experirence it is mainly atacking corp which use neutral RRs. 2. charge corp a or split it between a and c.
And OP idea have my full spurot, hope it will be implemented in next expansion. ------------------------------------------------
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever |
Haytrid
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:36:00 -
[25]
Alright, just a refresh for me catching up on this thread and finding it quite interesting.
The way it currently works is a war target can have neutral RR them with no penalty? Do they become flashy red at all after? I guess can someone fill in the specifics of the current mechanism/loop-hole on this.
Thanks!
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Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bibbleibble
And just for the record how the hell does this idea make high sec safer?
Reducing the ability of people to survive in a war makes it less safe, not the other way round.
His have right, it will make hig sec more safe. Because coward corps with lots of neutrals RR will stop wardecing normal corps with only intention to annoy/grief them. ------------------------------------------------
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Haytrid Alright, just a refresh for me catching up on this thread and finding it quite interesting.
The way it currently works is a war target can have neutral RR them with no penalty? Do they become flashy red at all after? I guess can someone fill in the specifics of the current mechanism/loop-hole on this.
Thanks!
you get flashy but you dont get aggression for it. so you can dock instantly when they start shooting you. so basically you can affect the war without any real penalties for yourself.
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Haytrid
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Posted - 2010.04.15 16:04:00 -
[28]
OK, so basically you have to catch the neut RR off a gate or station to lock them down and kill the repper, or have a team on the other side of the gate ready to lock them down? Then 15 minutes later they are no longer flashy?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.04.15 16:36:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/04/2010 16:39:12 Yes, truly the best idea ever. My wars need fixing, too. I, too, lose because my enemies have more friends than I do. Please, CCP, be my friend and help me!!! I am dying here ...
PS: And the few friends that I have, please CCP, fix them, too.
--
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Imigo Montoya
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Posted - 2010.04.22 00:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: darius mclever so basically you can affect the war without any real penalties for yourself.
This seems to be the key point that a lot of people are missing, so I wanted to highlight it.
EVE is all about choices with consequences, and if you make the choice to get involved in a war and can easily evade any consequences, then they're not really consequences.
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