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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:50:00 -
[1]
Ok, EvE online is the sandbox, we get it. We embrace it even.
However, that doesent mean: Forced PvP Forced War Decs Forced anything
If the game has a mechanic deal with it. If you try to PvP someone and they run nothing is broken. You've lost. If you war dec someone and they leave the corp or disband the corp, deal with it.
NPC corps are not broken. Hisec is not broken. Level 4 missions are not broken. The only part that was broken was the loot tables, which have allegedly been fixed in the upcoming patch.
Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get. It does not mean "what you do is what eve is about". Eve is as much about ninja salvaging as it is about wormholes as it is about ore as it is about sell orders as it is about research as it is about pvp etc etc... Live with it or emoragequit. and dont gimme your stuff when you do, emoragequitter tear residue is known to cause cancer. This is clearly a signature. |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:51:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Ok, EvE online is the sandbox, we get it. We embrace it even.
However, that doesent mean: Forced PvP Forced War Decs Forced anything
If the game has a mechanic deal with it. If you try to PvP someone and they run nothing is broken. You've lost. If you war dec someone and they leave the corp or disband the corp, deal with it.
NPC corps are not broken. Hisec is not broken. Level 4 missions are not broken. The only part that was broken was the loot tables, which have allegedly been fixed in the upcoming patch.
Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get. It does not mean "what you do is what eve is about". Eve is as much about ninja salvaging as it is about wormholes as it is about ore as it is about sell orders as it is about research as it is about pvp etc etc... Live with it or emoragequit. and dont gimme your stuff when you do, emoragequitter tear residue is known to cause cancer.
kthx
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Cyrus Deacon
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:58:00 -
[3]
Im sick of hearing people whine. That in it self is a whine. So I am sick of you and I. Cheers
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Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:23:00 -
[4]
Can I have your stuff?
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Ok, EvE online is the sandbox, we get it. We embrace it even.
However, that doesent mean: Forced PvP Forced War Decs Forced anything
If the game has a mechanic deal with it. If you try to PvP someone and they run nothing is broken. You've lost. If you war dec someone and they leave the corp or disband the corp, deal with it.
NPC corps are not broken. Hisec is not broken. Level 4 missions are not broken. The only part that was broken was the loot tables, which have allegedly been fixed in the upcoming patch.
Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get. It does not mean "what you do is what eve is about". Eve is as much about ninja salvaging as it is about wormholes as it is about ore as it is about sell orders as it is about research as it is about pvp etc etc... Live with it or emoragequit. and dont gimme your stuff when you do, emoragequitter tear residue is known to cause cancer.
I smell a troll lurking under this bridge, however...
This game is completely about PVP. The vast majority of the ships in this game are designed to do nothing except destroy other ships in various and creative ways.
You are either out there shooting people, or you are building the ships and modules that allow others to shoot people. In fact, you are probably selling your products to people who are trying to:
Force PvP Force War Decs Force anything
... and therefore you are part of the problem and should just quit and give me all of your stuff on the way out the door. :)
If you are playing this game for the PVE, then man you must really have a serious case of OCD cause the PVE in EVE is the most repetitive and completely boring PVE I have ever done in any game. I guess one of the only reasons people do EVE PVE is because the vast majority of it can be done solo or while dual boxing while all the games out there with good PVE content require being part of a team. Other than that... man, lvl 4 missions are eye bleedingly dull.
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Ryhss
Caldari 42nd Airborn
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Ok, EvE online is the sandbox, we get it. We embrace it even.
However, that doesent mean: Forced PvP Forced War Decs Forced anything
If the game has a mechanic deal with it. If you try to PvP someone and they run nothing is broken. You've lost. If you war dec someone and they leave the corp or disband the corp, deal with it.
NPC corps are not broken. Hisec is not broken. Level 4 missions are not broken. The only part that was broken was the loot tables, which have allegedly been fixed in the upcoming patch.
Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get. It does not mean "what you do is what eve is about". Eve is as much about ninja salvaging as it is about wormholes as it is about ore as it is about sell orders as it is about research as it is about pvp etc etc... Live with it or emoragequit. and dont gimme your stuff when you do, emoragequitter tear residue is known to cause cancer.
I like your style....
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Originally by: Cipher Jones Ok, EvE online is the sandbox, we get it. We embrace it even.
However, that doesent mean: Forced PvP Forced War Decs Forced anything
If the game has a mechanic deal with it. If you try to PvP someone and they run nothing is broken. You've lost. If you war dec someone and they leave the corp or disband the corp, deal with it.
NPC corps are not broken. Hisec is not broken. Level 4 missions are not broken. The only part that was broken was the loot tables, which have allegedly been fixed in the upcoming patch.
Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get. It does not mean "what you do is what eve is about". Eve is as much about ninja salvaging as it is about wormholes as it is about ore as it is about sell orders as it is about research as it is about pvp etc etc... Live with it or emoragequit. and dont gimme your stuff when you do, emoragequitter tear residue is known to cause cancer.
I smell a troll lurking under this bridge, however...
This game is completely about PVP. The vast majority of the ships in this game are designed to do nothing except destroy other ships in various and creative ways.
You are either out there shooting people, or you are building the ships and modules that allow others to shoot people. In fact, you are probably selling your products to people who are trying to:
Force PvP Force War Decs Force anything
... and therefore you are part of the problem and should just quit and give me all of your stuff on the way out the door. :)
If you are playing this game for the PVE, then man you must really have a serious case of OCD cause the PVE in EVE is the most repetitive and completely boring PVE I have ever done in any game. I guess one of the only reasons people do EVE PVE is because the vast majority of it can be done solo or while dual boxing while all the games out there with good PVE content require being part of a team. Other than that... man, lvl 4 missions are eye bleedingly dull.
The only problem I mention is people creating a fallacy about what the sandbox is. I have zero complaints about eve. This is clearly a signature. |
Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.04.13 03:03:00 -
[8]
I think this thread is a lie. There is no sand in Eve... how would the tape stick to my rifter if there was sand everywhere?
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.04.13 03:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Felix Esperium I think this thread is a lie. There is no sand in Eve... how would the tape stick to my rifter if there was sand everywhere?
Mmmm, that could explain why my Rifter falls apart when it comes across another ship.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.04.13 04:08:00 -
[10]
First I'll start with my reply to your comment in another thread, because it actually seems more relevant here:
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Cambarus lots of text quoted only to have a 2 line reply
Its called the sandbox not the forced to PvP sandbox. Quit being a hater and get used to it or go play something else. If its fair that you can declare war then its fair that you can remove your affiliation. P E R I O D.
Eve is, first and foremost, a pvp game. This sandbox crap that people love to spout whenever someone suggests changing any facet of the game is hilarious. If eve were a true sandbox, why can't we wardec NPC corps? There are still limitations on what we can and cannot do in eve, so simply spouting EVE R SANDBOX! every time someone suggests changing doesn't make you right.
Also, eve is very much a forced pvp game. Any time you leave the station people have the ability to shoot at you, so I'm not quite sure why you'd say something like "It's called the sandbox not the forced pvp sandbox"
Eve may be a sandbox, but the sandbox does have rules and limitations. What exactly makes these rules and limitations equivalent to the 10 commandments is beyond me, but I really don't see the problem in arguing that some of them should be changed or adjusted.
In the OP you mention that eve doesn't mean forced pvp forced wardecs forced anything and that if the game has a mechanic to deal with it. Last time I checked, neither pvp nor wardecs were consensual, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there. And CCP changes/nerfs game mechanics all the time, what's wrong with suggesting/arguing how they should do it next? |
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 05:25:00 -
[11]
Quote: so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there.
Yet you replied.
Quote: And CCP changes/nerfs game mechanics all the time, what's wrong with suggesting/arguing how they should do it next?
Who said there was anything wrong with that? I think it ties in with not understanding what I was saying, because that's not what I said.
Heres a Gem:
Quote: Also, eve is very much a forced pvp game. Any time you leave the station people have the ability to shoot at you, so I'm not quite sure why you'd say something like "It's called the sandbox not the forced pvp sandbox"
Nobody forces you to leave the station. Its funny that I put "fallacies" in the title and you're not sure why I said what I said but you used a fallacy in your argument. I'm honestly not trying to be a troll but that's right on the money.
This is clearly a signature. |
Atticus Fynch
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Posted - 2010.04.13 05:52:00 -
[12]
what does my phallus have to do with this topic?
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.04.13 07:48:00 -
[13]
Hear hear!
A toast to Cipher Jones!
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Keflin Geard
The Circle Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.04.13 08:15:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Keflin Geard on 13/04/2010 08:23:58 grumpy post.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:31:00 -
[15]
Now I was almost ready to believe that this wasn't a trollpost, but then you actually went and started arguing semantics and technicalities having nothing to do with the topic at hand. But fine, I'll play your game.
This thread was made in response to another thread asking CCP to force people out of NPC corps. By your logic, this should not be a problem because hey, you always have the option of not undocking right? Or rather, it would be more accurate to say that by your logic we should allow people to wardec the NPC corps, because the fact that we can't is an arbitrary limitation that goes against eve's sandbox mentality, and people who don't want to pvp can always just stay docked. |
Rellik B00n
Minmatar Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:44:00 -
[16]
wileece wodderwick + LDSkill+hireLDS |
Haramir Haleths
Caldari Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:55:00 -
[17]
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.13 11:15:00 -
[18]
EVE is a sandbox, and so it is indeed about freedom, but it is a multiplayer sandbox, and as such this freedom includes the freedom to engage other players in nonconsensual interactions. Thus it is implicit that by entering the sandbox you must forfeit the freedom to be exempt from such nonconsensual interactions initiated by other players.
If a mechanic violates this premise it is broken, as it removes the multiplayer aspect for the player who has exempted themselves, and removes the freedom to interact with that player from everyone else. -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Amberlamps
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
This game is completely about PVP.
0/10 herd 2 many tyms, gt nu materiul
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 16:49:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 13/04/2010 16:50:13
Originally by: Cambarus Now I was almost ready to believe that this wasn't a trollpost, but then you actually went and started arguing semantics and technicalities having nothing to do with the topic at hand. But fine, I'll play your game.
This thread was made in response to another thread asking CCP to force people out of NPC corps. By your logic, this should not be a problem because hey, you always have the option of not undocking right? Or rather, it would be more accurate to say that by your logic we should allow people to wardec the NPC corps, because the fact that we can't is an arbitrary limitation that goes against eve's sandbox mentality, and people who don't want to pvp can always just stay docked.
The only reason I argued topics not at hand is because posters presented them. I corrected them. I am glad that you can assume why this thread was made, however to think it was made because of one thread shows exactly why you accuse me of "arguing semantics". The title clearly states "sick of", and if you read the forums you know that what I am addressing occurs daily. I clearly stated in the OP that 'Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get'. I did not tell you what my ideal version of that concept is.
I was polite when explaining the fallacy in the honorable right gentleman's argument, please re-read the OP and my responses and tell me which part of what I actually posted bothers you.
Its easy to at first glance infer that I was trolling, because quite frankly I do troll. However if you re-read what I wrote correctly there should be no discrepancy. This is clearly a signature. |
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.04.13 19:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Cambarus
The only reason I argued topics not at hand is because posters presented them. I corrected them. I am glad that you can assume why this thread was made, however to think it was made because of one thread shows exactly why you accuse me of "arguing semantics". The title clearly states "sick of", and if you read the forums you know that what I am addressing occurs daily. I clearly stated in the OP that 'Sandbox means open ended as close to free will as you can get'. I did not tell you what my ideal version of that concept is.
I was polite when explaining the fallacy in the honorable right gentleman's argument, please re-read the OP and my responses and tell me which part of what I actually posted bothers you.
Its easy to at first glance infer that I was trolling, because quite frankly I do troll. However if you re-read what I wrote correctly there should be no discrepancy.
If we truely had free will to do whatever in the game, there would be wardecs hitting the NPC corps daily. The fact that this limitation is in place (which you definitely argued against changing in another thread) means we do not have a true sandbox, and my problem with this topic is that it stems from an argument regarding forcing people out of NPC corps where half the people against the idea spew the same old "Well eve is a sandbox and I should get to play it however I want" crap that they do every time someone threatens the way they play the game. The vast majority of the time, the sandbox argument is used to defend limitations that are placed on the game (usually with regards to pvp) because most people don't seem to realize that a true sandbox mentality WOULD allow people to force PVP on others, because not allowing them to is an arbitrary limitation that goes against the whole concept. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar Swag Co. Sandbox Bullies
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Posted - 2010.04.13 19:51:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 13/04/2010 19:51:18
Originally by: Cipher Jones ...emoragequitter tear residue is known to cause cancer.
Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer...too bad he doesn't cry.
"I have just as much authority as the empress, just not as many people that believe it." |
Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.04.13 20:18:00 -
[23]
People can't understand the difference between the phrases:
1. PvP is a choice in EVE, like most things in EVE. 2. You cannot effectively opt out of PvP in EVE.
Because they're both true. You can absolutely choose not to participate in player combat. You can absolute undock without the intention of participating in player combat. If you get jumped, you're not opting-in to PvP, you're being the victim of predatory PvP, it is not the same thing.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the situation, I'm saying "I choose to run missions and not participate in PvP" and "PvP is omnipresent" are both valid statements and realities in EVE.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 20:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cambarus
If we truely had free will to do whatever in the game, there would be wardecs hitting the NPC corps daily. The fact that this limitation is in place (which you definitely argued against changing in another thread) means we do not have a true sandbox, and my problem with this topic is that it stems from an argument regarding forcing people out of NPC corps where half the people against the idea spew the same old "Well eve is a sandbox and I should get to play it however I want" crap that they do every time someone threatens the way they play the game. The vast majority of the time, the sandbox argument is used to defend limitations that are placed on the game (usually with regards to pvp) because most people don't seem to realize that a true sandbox mentality WOULD allow people to force PVP on others, because not allowing them to is an arbitrary limitation that goes against the whole concept.
You make an assumption in your first sentence and call it a fact in your second sentence. Declaring war against an npc corp would get you concorded if the sandbox was truly open anyway. F A L L A C Y. This is clearly a signature. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.13 20:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cipher Jones You make an assumption in your first sentence and call it a fact in your second sentence. Declaring war against an npc corp would get you concorded if the sandbox was truly open anyway. F A L L A C Y.
That people can't wardec NPC corps isn't a fact? CONCORD pop people who shoot war targets? lolwut?
-
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Clone 565
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.04.13 20:46:00 -
[26]
i am sick of being sick... -CLONE 565, Meaty mask |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 20:56:00 -
[27]
Did you even read the post?
Quote: If we truely had free will to do whatever in the game, there would be wardecs hitting the NPC corps daily. The fact that this limitation is in place...
That is 100% assumption 0% fact.
Inigo is talking to you, not me. This is clearly a signature. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.13 21:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Did you even read the post?
Quote: If we truely had free will to do whatever in the game, there would be wardecs hitting the NPC corps daily. The fact that this limitation is in place...
That is 100% assumption 0% fact.
The first part is. The second part is not. -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
genette devo
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.04.13 21:07:00 -
[29]
Edited by: genette devo on 13/04/2010 21:10:45
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
If you are playing this game for the PVE, then man you must really have a serious case of OCD cause the PVE in EVE is the most repetitive and completely boring PVE I have ever done in any game.
the same could be said of the pvp win or lose is almost always already determined before the ships lock each other, the market is the only part of the game that surpasses the competition, every part of eve is totally lackluster on it's own, it works as a whole because ccp hasn't made them all independent of each other, every activity has an overall context in the whole.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.13 21:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: genette devo the same could be said of the pvp win or lose is almost already determined before the ships lock each other
Explain how that makes it repetitive or boring. -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
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