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OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 09:42:00 - [1] Edited by: OPX2 on 13/04/2010 09:46:07 About the War You may or may not be aware, but the universes of New Eden are burning. A massive conflict is currently taking place between the forces of the Northern Coalition and Southern entities. This conflict has resulted in heavy casualties for both sides; innumerable hulls, modules, pods and their pilots are being decimated each day. At this stage it is difficult to estimate how long the conflict may persist, but the steadfastness demonstrated from both sides is a testimony to their determination in eliminating the opposition. What are War Bonds The War Bonds is aimed to support the ongoing conflict. Since the conflict begun, in-house manufacturing facilities are being tested and pushed to their limits. Involved parties are experiencing difficulties in maintaining necessary supplies of hulls and modules in the frontlines. Supplies that is integral to the ultimate objective of winning the conflict. The situation is becoming increasingly volatile and damaging to morale. More importantly, the goal of the conflict is to completely neutralize the opposition. This goal can be achieved through destroyed hulls, crushed morale or even devastated balance sheets. This end goal is being approached from different avenues, and various assaults are being launched to this effect. Proceeds from the sales of War Bonds will be used to support the following activities: Battlefield recovery & salvage operations Intelligence gathering Market acquisition of supplies Resupply operations Strategic marketeering operations Why buy War Bonds? The purpose of the War Bonds is to act as a velvet glove between the belligerent force and third party investors. The alignment of the utilizers of the funds shall remain anonymous; thus the investors of War Bond maintain their neutrality in the conflict. For combatants from either side of the line: There is a 50% chance your ISKs are aiding enemy operations, but conversely you are taking away substantial percentage of the enemies earnings, earnings which can then be funneled through your own gears of war. There is an equally likely chance of your ISKs being funneled through the most bleeding edge operations of the conflict; every cent is devoted to assist you and your teammates to reach the end goal. Your contributions are recognized in the highest regards. For the peace loving investors: By taking part in this bond, you will cement your place in history as part of the victorious force in this great war of EVE. Moreover by contributing to this War Bond, you will save millions of innocent lives from turmoil of war and shorten this conflict by five year! Risks First and foremost, this is a War Bond. Any return is hinged to the success of the bond issuerÆs operations. As the identity or the utilizer is being kept anonymous, and his or her alignment a secret. The is information asymmetry between the investor and issuer. Secondly, yes this is a SCAM! Oh SNAP! Thirdly, HBB? This is an operation with the victory of the conflict in sight. Thus there is more than one person involved. In the event the original issuer of the bond is incapacitated or otherwise cannot access this account. Backup alts will be used to return funds to their respective owners.
OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 09:43:00 - [2] Edited by: OPX2 on 13/04/2010 09:50:23 Bond Structure Issue price: ISK 100,000,000 (100 Million ISK) per bond Bond size: ISK 1,000,000,000 (1 Billion ISK) Term 1 ISK 2,000,000,000 (2 Billion ISK) Term 2 ISK 4,000,000,000 (4 Billion ISK) Term 3 Interest Rate:4% per term Term 1 Issue Date:21 April 2010 Maturity Date:26 April 2010 Term 2 Issue Date:28 April 2010 Maturity Date:3 May 2010 Term 3 Issue Date:5 May 2010 Maturity Date:10 May 2010 Term 1 special application limit: 1 bond per investor TLDR: 100M@4%/5Days, Bond size increased and renewed each week. Investors should express their interest by replying below. Once the maximum amount of applicants is reached, the first 10 applicants will be notified and given 24hr to transfer funds to a designated character. Failure to do so will be considered as forfeit of application, and the first applicant on the waiting list will be offered the opportunity instead. At the end of each term, the funds plus interests will be transferred to their owners near DT. Investor may choose to a)Invest further, by transfer desired investment in blocks of 100M within 24hrs. b)Enjoy the spoil of war, do nothing. Applicants who fails to transfer funds within 24hrs will be considered as forfeit of offer, and applicants on waiting list will be notified and offered the opportunity instead. In the event, any term of the bond fails to reach the desired size; or an excess of investments received. Relevant funds will be returned to their rightful owners within 24 hrs. Conclusion Keep in mind, the War Bonds has the ultimate victory in mind. Stage 1 is here to test the robustness of the mechanisms and accrue goodwill for future expansions. The term and value of the bond is designed to minimize investorsÆ risks. I will be happy to answer any and all questions in regards to the bond itself, and the bond only. Victory in mind
OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 09:44:00 - [3] Edited by: OPX2 on 13/04/2010 09:51:58 ~Bond Status~ -OPEN- Next Issue Date 21 April 2010 Bond Holders Waiting List
Lost Hamster Hamster Holding Corp	Posted - 2010.04.13 10:13:00 - [4] Not sure how, do you plan to do this. But considering that the region does not have to many NPC station where you can dock, it can be a problem to move stuff there. Not talking about the gate camping, shooting of transport ships / Jump freighters. If you are member one of this parties, that means we are founding one side of the war. And we do not know which side is that. Personally I'm involved in this war, so I'm not sure if I want to give money maybe to the enemy. I do not see any colletal for the money what you plan to use. Looking that and the 4%, is pretty low. Risk is pretty high. So sorry, but this is a big nono for me.
Jadun	Posted - 2010.04.13 10:56:00 - [5] yo ho how about you take this to your corp homepage/Forums?
OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Lost Hamster Looking that and the 4%, is pretty low. Risk is pretty high. 4%/5days is 24%/30days. Term 1-3 is really to build goodwill and offer a quick exit for investors. Your comment on allegiance is noted, I guess this is really an offer for the rest of New Eden. Originally by: Jadun yo ho how about you take this to your corp homepage/Forums? Bonds are used to augment existing fundings, besides pilots should be using their ISK to buy hulls and mods, not investing during this time of war.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:33:00 - [7] Your offering makes no sense whatsoever. That apart, where's the audit and what collateral are you putting up to guarantee your bond? If the answer to either of those two questions is negative, go away. No, I am not being nasty. You will not raise funds from sensible investors with your unaudited, zero collateral current offering
OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:54:00 - [8] Originally by: Varo Jan Your offering makes no sense whatsoever. That apart, where's the audit and what collateral are you putting up to guarantee your bond? If the answer to either of those two questions is negative, go away. No, I am not being nasty. You will not raise funds from sensible investors with your unaudited, zero collateral current offering This is a bond, not a share offer.
Dzil Caldari SafeHouse Investments of Tautology	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:55:00 - [9] 3 out of pi. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:05:00 - [10] Originally by: OPX2 Originally by: Varo Jan Your offering makes no sense whatsoever. That apart, where's the audit and what collateral are you putting up to guarantee your bond? If the answer to either of those two questions is negative, go away. No, I am not being nasty. You will not raise funds from sensible investors with your unaudited, zero collateral current offering This is a bond, not a share offer. Doesn't matter. You are still asking for our money without offering collateral, an audit or any other guarantor of a return on investment. Sorry... get an audit done Get collateral locked down with a 3d party Then come back and talk to us. Frankly your business plan is a disaster waiting to happen. Market Alerts Mailing List
OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Taram Caldar Frankly your business plan is a disaster waiting to happen. Again this is a WAR BOND, not your typical business venture. If you dont feel comfortable committing yet, just sit on the fence for a while.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:00:00 - [12] Anyone taking this offer seriously should report to the nearest asylum. Free jumpclone service\|924 stations - 6300+ users
Dalden V Blue Lounge Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:14:00 - [13] Originally by: OPX2 Again this is a WAR BOND, not your typical business venture. If you dont feel comfortable committing yet, just sit on the fence for a while. You're assuming we all know what a WAR BOND is. From the short read I did on Wikipedia it seems like traditional war bonds have a very long maturity, typically they pay out long after the war is over. However in your offering the maturity is set to 5 days, could you explain how you intend to pay back the bond once it matures? If I'm understanding correctly you require funds to supply the war, an activity which is not usually profitable for either side in the short term. You then state that your maturity period is 5 days. How do you intend to turn a profit in such a short period of time funding a war? The fact that your bond offering escalates in value over time and limits the amount per investor also raises some concern. This technique has been used before to gain trust in the smaller offerings and then default on the larger one. Originally by: OPX2 Secondly, yes this is a SCAM! Oh SNAP! A get out of jail free card?
SetrakDark DarkCorp Holdings	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:17:00 - [14] Oh god, it's been a while since I've felt justified: scam Uhhhhn, felt goooooood. Way to hit every ponzi red flag imaginable.
flakeys DRAMA Inc OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:27:00 - [15] Originally by: OPX2 Originally by: Taram Caldar Frankly your business plan is a disaster waiting to happen. Again this is a WAR BOND, not your typical business venture. If you dont feel comfortable committing yet, just sit on the fence for a while. This one will need a verry big fence ...
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:30:00 - [16] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: OPX2 Originally by: Taram Caldar Frankly your business plan is a disaster waiting to happen. Again this is a WAR BOND, not your typical business venture. If you dont feel comfortable committing yet, just sit on the fence for a while. This one will need a verry big fence ... Is this by any chance the great wall of china? The people sitting on the fence/wall are likely to be guards.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:45:00 - [17] Originally by: OPX2 Originally by: Taram Caldar Frankly your business plan is a disaster waiting to happen. Again this is a WAR BOND, not your typical business venture. If you dont feel comfortable committing yet, just sit on the fence for a while. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. And your offering is STILL garbage. 1) A "War Bond" is issued by a nation to people who think they're going to win the war. 2) War Bonds are clearly and easily identified as to what entity you are investing in. 3) The "War Bond" is a long term bond generally set to pay out AFTER the war is over. 4) War Bonds are guaranteed by a nation in some manner. You can have some faith that the nation will still exist and the bond will be honored regardless of the outcome of the war. You are not offering a 'war bond'. You can call it whatever you want but it the way it is written you are asking for 3 separate short term loans each maturing in 5 days. Thus: You need to tell us how you plan to cut enough profit to pay 104% of face value in 5 days. You are a first time offering and, as such, need to provide far more transparency, in the form of a full audit of all your accounts and probably collateral as well. It doesn't matter if you call it a national bond, a war bond or your infant's underpants. You still are asking for public funds. As such you're subject to our rules, not yours. Want our money? Then comply with our requests. Otherwise take your 'war bonds' and go find someone stupid enough to give a total stranger who won't even disclose which side of the war he's on isk up front with no guarantors of return. Market Alerts Mailing List
Julia Venatrix	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:53:00 - [18] Originally by: OPX2 Again this is a WAR BOND, not your typical business venture. If you dont feel comfortable committing yet, just sit on the fence for a while. One buys such a bond to support a side in the conflict. Some might do so out of patriotism, but you can already tap their funds. The rest of us might fund your short victorious war for more mercenary reasons, but then we must be able to balance our risk against our anticipated reward. We do not need collateral in the strictest sense, although that would increase the takeup of your offer. If, however, we are not lending against a security, then we are lending against your reputation. We thus need to know to whom we are lending money - the risk is that you lose the war, and we lose our money. Without that knowledge, the risk:reward ratio is incalculable, and thus unacceptable. Failing to recognise that you would be called on this suggests you might do better to find an alternate pastime to playing internet spaceships. --- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue.
Mikael Genexi Gallente Product Number 3	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:14:00 - [19] To be fair, the OP does admit to it being a scam in his first post under Risks. He tries to cover it up with some pseudo-sardonic wit but it is there for everyone to see.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Mikael Genexi To be fair, the OP does admit to it being a scam in his first post under Risks. He tries to cover it up with some pseudo-sardonic wit but it is there for everyone to see. I figure it probably is a scam. No reason not to bludgeon him over the head for putting together a shoddy offering though. People need to learn not to do these crappy offering posts somehow. Market Alerts Mailing List
Dzil Caldari SafeHouse Investments of Tautology	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Mikael Genexi To be fair, the OP does admit to it being a scam in his first post under Risks. He tries to cover it up with some pseudo-sardonic wit but it is there for everyone to see. I figure it probably is a scam. No reason not to bludgeon him over the head for putting together a shoddy offering though. People need to learn not to do these crappy offering posts somehow. Funny, I read it as a parody/troll. What makes you think he's serious? Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:13:00 - [22] Let me try and understand this. - A huge alliance is at war - The huge alliance has hundreds of capital ships to deploy - The huge alliance has huge amount of finance from taxing (minimal) its membership base yet despite those things above, it requires 3B ISK in war bonds. This is to do what exactly? Extend the war for 3 hours? If an alliance is short of capital it should issue war bonds to its membership or it should give up the war if it can't afford it. If this isn't a SCAM (which is likely), then it is one of the dumbest launches I have seen on here.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Taram Caldar I figure it probably is a scam. No reason not to bludgeon him over the head for putting together a shoddy offering though. People need to learn not to do these crappy offering posts somehow. Funny, I read it as a parody/troll. What makes you think he's serious? You're missing the point: Whether he's serious or not it's a bad offering. I don't know if he's serious or if he's not. It could be a parody, it could be a serious offering trying to joke about the possibility of a scam or it could be an actual attempt to scam. I really don't care which it is. It's still poorly written, doesn't meet the criteria we, as a community, have established as 'necessary' for a proper offering. Thus we should critique it so that anyone new to the forum learn that sub standard offerings aren't going to be accepted by us. Bottom line: No matter what it is. It's not a sufficient writeup for MD and is being critiqued by us as such. Takes no effort to write a few sentences so why not do it so that new folks don't get un-necessarily confused. Market Alerts Mailing List
Ran Khanon Amarr Vengeance Innovations	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:22:00 - [24] Edited by: Ran Khanon on 13/04/2010 18:24:39 I am truly appalled by the way in which the OP tries to justify his profiting from the deaths and conflicts of others. "The alignment of the utilizers of the funds shall remain anonymous; thus the investors of War Bond maintain their neutrality in the conflict." Hah! That isn't neutrality which you ask of your investors, that is ignorance induced bliss! Noone with the slightest bit of conscience would agree to these terms. A much more ethically correct way to invest your isk would be to put it in: *RAN KHANON'S PEACE FUNDÖ* Participating in RAN KHANON'S PEACE FUNDÖ is putting your mind at rest by knowing that you invested your money into a good cause, a truly righteous aim towards peace and friendship in the vast reaches of outer space. Every single isk I will receive shall go towards the assets needed to travel to the bases of operations of the warring parties and engage with them in conversation and fruitful discussion and by diplomatic effort appealing to their senses of reason and empathy in order to put an end to this hideous war. To impress the denizens of these warring regions, large and expensive ships are a must and I deem a Paladin the ultimate vessel to set out on my journey with as its red and golden hull and righteous type-name will instil the combatants with awe and respect. Every donation is welcome and needed. No matter how small. (You will receive the unique, red and golden RAN KHANON'S PEACE FUNDÖ bracelet for donations of 10 million isk and up). Before selling your soul by investing in this dreadful War Bond, think again and put your money where your conscience is: RAN KHANON'S PEACE FUNDÖ Thank you, RK Help us to make parrots game related today!
Dzil Caldari SafeHouse Investments of Tautology	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Taram Caldar I figure it probably is a scam. No reason not to bludgeon him over the head for putting together a shoddy offering though. People need to learn not to do these crappy offering posts somehow. Funny, I read it as a parody/troll. What makes you think he's serious? You're missing the point: Whether he's serious or not it's a bad offering. I don't know if he's serious or if he's not. Originally by: The OP Secondly, yes this is a SCAM! Oh SNAP! Thirdly, HBB? This is an operation with the victory of the conflict in sight. Thus there is more than one person involved. In the event the original issuer of the bond is incapacitated or otherwise cannot access this account. Backup alts will be used to return funds to their respective owners. I'm quite sure I'm not the one that missed the point. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
OPX2	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:40:00 - [26] Originally by: cosmoray yet despite those things above, it requires 3B ISK in war bonds. This is to do what exactly? 3B is definitely not the final figure. Though would I have made anyone more comfortable by stating the target figure of 500B? Revealing my alignment would be counterproductive, it would be like lighting a cyno in enemy territory, and be trolled by countless forum warriors from the other side. Alas, this is an experimental approach to win the war. Whether any actual fund is raised this way will not diminish the ongoing conflict in any way or form. If no one is interested before the first issue date, the offer will obviously be terminated. ^_^ Happying critiquing
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:11:00 - [27] Edited by: Professor Leech on 13/04/2010 22:12:38 I am prepared to audit this war bond. I need complete access to forums, secure director forums, secure comms systems, a complete list of spies, and will conduct interviews on proposed strategy. As a part of the audit I will assess the competence of the parties involved. Based on the information provided so far the op does not appear to be involved at all. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Professor Leech Edited by: Professor Leech on 13/04/2010 22:12:38 I am prepared to audit this war bond. I need complete access to forums, secure director forums, secure comms systems, a complete list of spies, and will conduct interviews on proposed strategy. As a part of the audit I will assess the competence of the parties involved. Based on the information provided so far the op does not appear to be involved at all. Ill invest 1b if those points get covered
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Discord.	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:25:00 - [29] Originally by: OPX2 Originally by: cosmoray yet despite those things above, it requires 3B ISK in war bonds. This is to do what exactly? 3B is definitely not the final figure. Though would I have made anyone more comfortable by stating the target figure of 500B? Revealing my alignment would be counterproductive, it would be like lighting a cyno in enemy territory, and be trolled by countless forum warriors from the other side. Alas, this is an experimental approach to win the war. Whether any actual fund is raised this way will not diminish the ongoing conflict in any way or form. If no one is interested before the first issue date, the offer will obviously be terminated. ^_^ Happying critiquing Most alliances can't be trusted to return isk to third party random investors without their name being known (assuming you're not just scamming outright yourself, which is a better than 50/50 chance). Especially in a war bond scenario. Take it to your internal forums.
Skarii TuThess Lansez Innovations	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:27:00 - [30] Assuming it's not a scam... This offering makes no sense to me. The nature of a War Bond (over a regular bond) is that it is secured by a nation's tax. The nation cannot afford to buy the materials it needs at that time so it takes out a heavy debt. Now most businesses do this because they figure they can out earn the coupon. So I may borrow 3bn ISK at 4% knowing I can earn 10% and pocket the 6% difference. War bonds don't work like that because the nation is not seeking to make money out of the loan. So if we were to buy your war bonds you would have 1bn ISK. You would then produce stuff that you would give / sell at a subsidised cost to your front line. You can't be making a profit because otherwise you might as well get your front line guys to buy their own stuff (ie you are not helping the war effort you are profiteering from your own side). So at the end of the term you have less than your 1bn ISK to pay back, even without the interest. The only thing that makes War Bonds work (ie that you won't earn a profit short term, in fact you will deliberately seek to lose it by building stuff that will be likely destroyed) is that (pending survival) you can repay the loan with post-war earnings. Now you can't earn that money back through economic means as you have not got the bond value left any more, you need to raise it through other methods (such as tax). Could you please comment on where I am wrong in the above assumption, and come up with a more detailed plan on how you plan to repay the bond? Thanks.

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