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Iteken Hotori
Minmatar Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.14 14:54:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Nefher Zhila So, if I understand correctly UshraÆkhan and his puppet master destroyed what was once the only 0.0 space that allowed free trade, the presence of neutrals to do their business with relative ease and supportà
No offence intended, but you obviously understand little. There was no "free trade" there was capitulation and slavery. Many could not dock, or trade in that region after being falsely accused of piracy by Sev3rence pilots. After making simple mistakes, or by transgressing one of many minor laws. Entities in the area were not free to set standings. Pilots were not free to carry out their tasks. Each and every pilot was cowed into submission of Aralis' will by a rigid society designed to make the rich richer and the poor exhausted.
CVA has been put out of Other People's Misery.
I look forward to seeing Paxton on the battlefield again, and again. They showed what it is to fight for your homeland, rather than fleeing like cowards with pockets lined with gold, telling lies of "returning to fight another day".
http://i44.tinypic.com/oitz47.jpg
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2010.04.14 15:04:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Iteken Hotori No offence intended, but you obviously understand little. There was no "free trade" there was capitulation and slavery. Many could not dock, or trade in that region after being falsely accused of piracy by Sev3rence pilots. After making simple mistakes, or by transgressing one of many minor laws.
I guess the current situation where you cannot dock at all and are shot at without having transgressed any laws simply because you didn't bow to the new masters is preferable to you?
Perhaps this is why systems previously brimming with industrial activity are now silent and empty?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.04.14 15:10:00 -
[63]
A momentous day. The old order of Amarrian loyalists swept from their unearned thrones and cast back into their degenerate Empire, while a dozen suns rise on a new Providence. This is something I can drink to. -----
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Nefher Zhila
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.04.14 15:10:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Iteken Hotori
Originally by: Nefher Zhila So, if I understand correctly UshraÆkhan and his puppet master destroyed what was once the only 0.0 space that allowed free trade, the presence of neutrals to do their business with relative ease and supportà
No offence intended, but you obviously understand little. There was no "free trade" there was capitulation and slavery. Many could not dock, or trade in that region after being falsely accused of piracy by Sev3rence pilots. After making simple mistakes, or by transgressing one of many minor laws. Entities in the area were not free to set standings. Pilots were not free to carry out their tasks. Each and every pilot was cowed into submission of Aralis' will by a rigid society designed to make the rich richer and the poor exhausted.
CVA has been put out of Other People's Misery.
I look forward to seeing Paxton on the battlefield again, and again. They showed what it is to fight for your homeland, rather than fleeing like cowards with pockets lined with gold, telling lies of "returning to fight another day".
http://i44.tinypic.com/oitz47.jpg
Well, even if your allegations are true, in what way is the present situation even remotely better than the one you alleged? Seems to me there wonÆt be much concern for that anymore, as anything not on your terms will simply be put to death in the fastest way possible.
Given this facts I stand by the personal assumption that you and your puppet are nothing more than destroyers who look for nothing else than the pleasure of seeing debris floating in space, at least AAA is somewhat honest in this, UshraÆKhan on the other hand still hides with full hypocrisy under an ancient concept (this concept being honorable or not isnÆt the issue) that they clearly have no feeling for, the ôwe come for our peopleö that turned into ôWe come for our iskö.
It will be a pleasure seeing the delusional UshraÆkhan crumble under the weight of the Isk mongers who pushed terrorism beyond guns to the financial arena.
Khanid Loyalist, also loyal to the Amarrian empire. Former member of the 13th Royal Khanid Regulars. |
Borza Slavak
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.14 15:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I guess the current situation where you cannot dock at all and are shot at without having transgressed any laws simply because you didn't bow to the new masters is preferable to you?
Perhaps this is why systems previously brimming with industrial activity are now silent and empty?
Exactly how what kind of window are you giving 'business as normal' to recommence before dismissing it as never going to happen? Minutes? Hours?
Amarrian propaganda is so obvious...
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.14 16:05:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Xina Tutor History perhaps, but it was not really an Ushra'Khan victory was it. I know that has to sour the taste a little.
It makes it all the sweeter. Knowing we have found true friends in Against All Authorities is the true victory here.
Compared to that, CVA being evicted feels like mere collateral. _______________________ We come for our people! |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2010.04.14 16:29:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Borza Slavak
Exactly how what kind of window are you giving 'business as normal' to recommence before dismissing it as never going to happen? Minutes? Hours?
You tell me. I haven't heard of any timetables, I merely notice many new residents and new policies (and conflicts about them) already springing up.
As far as I'm concerned UK is under no obligation to improve the docking and security situation in Providence. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 18:31:00 -
[68]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Xina Tutor History perhaps, but it was not really an Ushra'Khan victory was it. I know that has to sour the taste a little.
It makes it all the sweeter. Knowing we have found true friends in Against All Authorities is the true victory here.
Compared to that, CVA being evicted feels like mere collateral.
Well yes, I am certain that it helps to pretend that Against All Authorities cares anything about your cause at all.
But of course we know why they really attacked, and it has far more to do with ego and a touch of fear that a small alliance might one day threaten their borders while they were otherwise occupied in other conflicts.
But Dream on your sweet dreams. I hope they are not soon a nightmare for you.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.14 19:06:00 -
[69]
Hows the north xina? do they care about you or do they just see fodder to be thrown at the attackers? |
Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.14 19:35:00 -
[70]
All those crying about the loss of the only 'noob-friendly' region in EvE might want to think back and ask them selves why that same regions 'holders' decided to expand into the only space they knew was gonna bring them nothing but pain.
You can spin this any way you want but the bottom line is CVA and the Holders pulled the first punch and they lost that fight. A looser doesn't decide the terms of the peace offer that is made after the fight. They chose to sacrifice the entire region to uphold their 'zealot pride'. CVA / LFA hit first and -A- bloodied their nose in D-G and offered them to run while they still have legs to run on ... CVA decided to 'be proud and make a stand against the big bad bully (-B-) kid' by shoving all the other kids at him and his friends while they them selves ran as fast and as far away from the fight as they could, yelling "we'll be back when you get bored of our playground!". Some of the kids fought valiantly, some scattered, some got beaten to a pulp, and some screamed "don't hit us please we are not with them any more!".
When someone has a go at you, you make sure he never ever gets the opportunity to do so again. If you think otherwise you are not fit to be in the .0 playground in the first place. So suck it up and go with the flow.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
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Sgt Jinxed
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.14 20:15:00 -
[71]
We come for our people!
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.14 20:42:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Mnement'h
You can spin this any way you want but the bottom line is CVA and the Holders pulled the first punch
Unless you count -A-'s regular raids into Providence or their support of the CVA's oldest enemy.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 20:44:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Xennith Hows the north xina? do they care about you or do they just see fodder to be thrown at the attackers?
Well I am fodder in any case, as are all front line pilots, so that is hardly and issue either way. I feel no more or less as fodder than I have ever done.
But the north has indeed be most welcoming and our goals are much the same. Since I live in space, any space is somehow much the same as any other, but this is somehow very nice dark space. And the pilots are a joy to fly alongside.
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Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.14 21:06:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Mnement'h
You can spin this any way you want but the bottom line is CVA and the Holders pulled the first punch
Unless you count -A-'s regular raids into Providence or their support of the CVA's oldest enemy.
Oh I guess all those Paxton, Sev3rance, CVA etc. fleets you could see in HED and GE- on almost a daily basis were just friendly sightseeing tours. The Provi vs. -A- skirmish has lasted for years, even before U'K was blue to -A- or had any stations in Catch.
Get of the high horse and smell the really bad excuse for a failed expansionist campaign that backfired and dragged the entire region into a conflict everyone knew was going to end this way.
People keep saying CVA had no choice ... noone would take them serious if they accepted the peace offer ... Who would take -A- serious if we let an invasion attempt just slide without repercussions ? One that was publicly announced with all the e-peen Aralis could muster into words.
Starting the SOV game was entirely CVA's fault and all the holders payed for it. It's that simple. And now Providence has new residents and they all know what happens if you play the SOV game in catch / providence.
Eve is a sandbox ... and sometimes the big kid will step on your castle and there is nothing you can do about it but complain how unfair it all is on Galnet ... but not everyone will agree with you ... especially the thousands of pilots who now have a new home in Providence. Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 21:19:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Mnement'h
You can spin this any way you want but the bottom line is CVA and the Holders pulled the first punch
Unless you count -A-'s regular raids into Providence or their support of the CVA's oldest enemy.
Well neven more than that really. It was -A- who first attacked sovreignty. CVA never actually attacked sovreignty in any legally registered -A- system. All rather humorous really, all the chest beating and ego and false calls for peace.
And we know from a long history that -A- wanted to fight, nothing more.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 21:42:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Mnement'h
Eve is a sandbox ... and sometimes the big kid will step on your castle and there is nothing you can do about it but complain how unfair it all is on Galnet ... but not everyone will agree with you ... especially the thousands of pilots who now have a new home in Providence.
Interestingly, in the new providence the sand for the sandbox has been used to make an ant farm. It's a fixed enclosure(s) completely under the ultimate control of -A-. There is no sandbox in that area at this time. You may wish to look at it as a set of enclosed sandboxes if you will, but the enclosure is obvious.
Sure, the ants can fight and kill each other, but the glass remains firmly fixed in place. And they will be squashed quickly if there is any challange.
And -A- wanted the holders to join this little ant farm. Indeed it seems that some remain. I fear that I prefer a greater freedom than that, as do others. As we speak it seems that Star Fraction will also be somewhat restrained by this enclosure.
Free pilots will always strive to be free, and contrary to popular belief, Sev3rance has always strived for the freedom of it's own pilots as well as those who would fly peacefully in their space.
So I wish you all well with the ant farm. It was a great success in achieving a very peaceful area with very limitted local conflict.
Well... there will be confict. Perhaps. Some time.
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Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.14 22:00:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Mnement'h
You can spin this any way you want but the bottom line is CVA and the Holders pulled the first punch
Unless you count -A-'s regular raids into Providence or their support of the CVA's oldest enemy.
Well neven more than that really. It was -A- who first attacked sovreignty. CVA never actually attacked sovreignty in any legally registered -A- system. All rather humorous really, all the chest beating and ego and false calls for peace.
And we know from a long history that -A- wanted to fight, nothing more.
Another lame attempt at spinning words rather than seriously acknowledging what happened ... If this was just an attempt to expand a little by LFA and gain a few systems for new Holders, then you might have a point. Unfortunately Aralis's page-long post about conquering -A- space just doesn't fit into the whole 'it wasn't an attack on -A- sov' excuse.
Go drop a few TCU's into non-sov systems in Delve and see what happens ... I'm sure IT (just an example but applicable to any large space-holding alliance) will understand that you are not really attacking their space, just merely expanding into non-claimed territory ...
as for -A- wanting to fight I quite distinctly remember being in 49-U fighting Goons with almost the entire alliance and friends there when LFA started dropping the TCU's ... funny way of fighting with our ships 25+ jumps from where LFA was at the time.
Goebels type propaganda where you repeat one thing over and over again until people start to believe it's actually true just doesn't work any more. Especially when you just lost the war.
As for the ant farm ... you say there are enclosures ... true ... the only -A- imposed rule for providence is "NO SOV WARFARE" ... how is this different from what CVA used to have ? You had a unified blue list ... which means you can only attack whoever CVA decides can be attacked ... which means no sov warfare unless CVA allowed it ... unlike CVA tho we do not impose the inner relations of the inhabitants of Providence. They can blue / neut / red whoever they want. They can individually implement NBSI, NRDS or whatever other ROE they want to. They can be slavers or they can be freedom-fighters (see developments in SF vs. Daisho conflict). They can support noob corps that want to come to .0 or they can shoot them at will ... the point is as long as they don't go SOV they can do whatever the frack they want to ... they pay rent to noone, they have no blue list restrictions, they have no anti-piracy laws, they can set access to their station they way they want to and they can fight over resources in any way they see fit.
Yes the new sandbox might be contained from expanding but it sure as hell isn't as restricted as it used to be.
Oh and remember ... they were INVITED to providence ... not forced or planted ... why would anyone in their right mind come to Providence if it wasn't a place where they can prosper ? Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 22:17:00 -
[78]
For some reason -A- seems to need to feel that they were defending their space to make them feel better. It's all very strange.
It is also odd how there was no reaction to other moves into catch earlier. 2J was settled much earlier and there was no reaction. There were always holder alliances claiming various unclaimed systems in catch.
And odd how -A- could ever feel threatened but such a relatively small group of alliances. There does seem to be some issues of insecurity here, and we can only guess that the great empire is not as stable within as it may appear on the surface.
Oh, and the comparisons to CVA. I will grant some simularities, however the sovreignty was self imposed and negotiated internally within the alliances rather from without as is now the case. As far as New Providence is concerned they are walls imposed by an outside force. If you look at the greater region as say, the '-A- block' then is is perhaps more similar, although I doubt the ants have much say in the matter.
And that said. -A- now claim to be the same as CVA. How interesting.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 22:28:00 -
[79]
Amarr vict...ummm...minmatar victor?
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.14 22:54:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
For some reason -A- seems to need to feel that they were defending their space to make them feel better. It's all very strange.
It is also odd how there was no reaction to other moves into catch earlier. 2J was settled much earlier and there was no reaction. There were always holder alliances claiming various unclaimed systems in catch.
And odd how -A- could ever feel threatened but such a relatively small group of alliances. There does seem to be some issues of insecurity here, and we can only guess that the great empire is not as stable within as it may appear on the surface.
Oh, and the comparisons to CVA. I will grant some simularities, however the sovreignty was self imposed and negotiated internally within the alliances rather from without as is now the case. As far as New Providence is concerned they are walls imposed by an outside force. If you look at the greater region as say, the '-A- block' then is is perhaps more similar, although I doubt the ants have much say in the matter.
And that said. -A- now claim to be the same as CVA. How interesting.
'When facts fail do an ad hominem' ... that approach works on CAOD but if you want to have a proper discussion without basing your arguments on the presupposed needs and feels of the adversary then it's just not a debate any more but use of logical fallacies to justify what has been proven to be wrong.
The systems LFA attacked were, unlike some other systems previously claimed, in spitting distance of HED ... and unlike Providence that has 3 entry points from empire -A- space only has one ... letting a hostile entity expand to within walking distance of your most valuable strategic asset is lunacy at the least ...
You say -A- is threatened by a small group of alliances ... at the moment the conflict started, the Provi bloc counted just over 6300 pilots ... that is hardly a 'small group of alliances'. Point of fact is the Provibloc used to be the 6th largest entity in the EvE universe ... just below -A- and friends who take no.5 ...
Comparing -A- to CVA is absurd since -A- has no direct influence over what goes on inside providence beyond projecting the force to keep it in the same SOV structure it is now. CVA on the other hand regulated station access, docking fees, standings lists, intel channels, jumpbridge network access, moon mining rights to just name a few ... If you look at the broader picture -A- and it's known projected power has had the same unwritten arrangement with providence even before the conflict, just on a inter-regional rather than intra-regional scale. Everyone knew that if you expand towards -A- space you will be dealing with repercussions you are not able to handle unless you are a powerbloc. That is exactly what the New Providence inhabitants know now too. -A- didn't meddle into affairs inside provi and neither does it now, but the threat is as real now (just more demonstrable by the recent events) as it was in the CVA days.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 23:24:00 -
[81]
My appologies, Mnement'h, but you made the comparisons to CVA, not me. I think it is interesting you campare the two at all.
And I am simply wondering at the real motivation of -A- in this matter. From what has been said, the motivation appears to have been a fear of -A- losing Sovreingty to CVA and a desire for -A- to maintain it's reputation as a very powerful alliance. These just seem odd motivations. It suggests that -A- actually felt threatened by the Povidence block, which is interesting to say the least.
As for the numbers in Alliances, I think there is some interesting math involved there, but even with your numbers it was well known that a very large number of pilots in the Providence region were industrial in nature, due to the very nature of the area, and hardly a threat. It is also a relatively poor area in comperison to deaper regions of space, and one which cocentrated on comunity and industrial infrastructure rather then pure military might. After all, this is the standard joke in regard to Providence, is it not?
So again. How interesting theat they might be seen as any real threat to sovreignty of what is currently seen by most as the largest powerplock in the cluster. A power block with numbers many times higher than what was seen in Providence.
And in the end I again say. You made the comparision between -A- and CVA with regard to enlosurism. I simply agreed it was true, to a point. And you still make the comparisons.
We can but chuckle at the claims of such thing as restricted station access. I think you might find station access somewhat more restricted then it ever was before
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Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:00:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
stuff ...
I was referring to this line when I spoke of your comparison of -A- and CVA:
Quote: And that said. -A- now claim to be the same as CVA. How interesting.
you say we claim to be the same and I claim we are nothing of the sort ... which is why I brought up all the comparisons ...
When summarizing everything you said in your previous posts I come to the conclusion that you believe -A- overreacted ? Am I reading this correct?
What do you believe would have been the proper response to the incursion into catch so close to our most valuable system ? Should we have stopped after D-G and pretend nothing happened and stay confident that as soon as we went (for instance north or to goon owned delve) that Aralis wouldn't make good on his promise to never stop until we are removed from holy land ? Maybe we should have waited until we were fully engaged in Delve against the then still existing Goons to find out there were SBU's onlining in HED ?
Whether or not Provibloc was ever a threat to -A- sov is now painfully obvious, but that doesn't change the fact that no sane strategist or leader would ever expose his homeland and his base of power to a known enemy (who at that professes publicly the desire to annihilate said homeland) however small they are. -A- can field capitals in triple digits. How much of an annoyance do you think it is to fuel all those ships when you need to hop them battlefield to battlefield just because you 'had to save the best place in EvE for noobs' ? Excuse my bluntness but who decided it was up to -A- to be the guardian of nooblet-world ? Wasn't it CVA's idea ? Didn't they claim to be the Lord Holders of Providence ? In what possible way is the destruction of that system upon -A- to prevent or not bring about?
Bottom line is a conflict was initiated and as much as you would like to believe that we were bloodthirsty and wanted the fight so badly I can assure you that 30 days of grinding stations isn't seen as a fun pastime in -A-. We were quite happy slugging it out with the Goons before we got pulled back home.
You poked us knowing full well the amount of firepower we would bring and whether anyone likes it or not we brought it all to make a point. Which is exactly what this whole thread is about. Making a point. Not chest-beating or e-peen wielding, making a point. To Aralis. A point that his idea of a tired -A- not willing to do the grind was wrong just as his idea of expanding into -A- space was at the beginning of this mess.
Also on the station access thing, you say it is amusing that I mention station access restrictions ... I find that you are missing the point ... in old provi it was CVA who dictated access to most (if not all the stations) in providence by enforcing a region wide blue/red list. In new providence the station owners are the ones who decide who docks and who not. I see that as a step up in freedom not a step back. We might have decided who will live in provi for now but we are not deciding how they live.
If the new owners choose to run their own blue lists it's their prerogative but keep in mind we are talking about thousands of new pilots in providence ... not single people who own a station each and decide who docks and who doesn't. They all have friends who they can bring into providence to learn the life of .0 just like the old provi was. It might not be NRDS any more but it was never that safe a place to begin with.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:30:00 -
[83]
Over-reaction? Well either way would have worked equally as well oviously, and apparently your leader thought the same as he called for the pact with CVA. The D-G battle was quite effective, although odd temporal disturbances appear to have hampered some forces there. I am simply curious. I find it all very interesting now from a very outside persecptive. Unlike some, perhaps, I am not attached to particular space, and in reality lost little in the conflict. Indeed many ships I intended in throwing into the fight sure to die were later flown out as there was never any real opportunity to fight realistcally at that time, and the deeper reaches of free space were calling. I do however very much treasure the loss of my omen to two titan class vessels and a supercarrier. That brough a great deal of laughter around the table at evening mean, I assure you.
It seems in the end almost as if -A- wanted the pilots of providence to remain there as some sort of plaything. And as far as the need to destroy Providence goes it was well said by it's very leader that -A- was ideed very much prepared to leave the fight at D-G as long as CVA was prepared to renounce their mission and any hope of true control of their sovreignty. -A- was even going to allow some expansion perhaps, but on their terms, of course. So in that way it seems that -A- considered it may be an over-reaction and something they would avoid if possible. As I have said, it is all very strange.
This desire to keep Providence as it was is clear as they now rebuild this area in their own image. It is somehow familiar, yes so far shows the obvious signs of manufacture rather than the true dynamics on real space. In time I am sure that will change, but one is left to wonder if the resistriction imposed by -A- are not even more oppressive than the restrictions they claim CVA made upon it's holders. Restrictions I may note we rarely felt were such as an alliance.
And we all know some things happened that were beyond the control of -A- and they lost alliances from the area that they likely would have preferred reamain in some form or other. Well fear not in that case as that was very unlikely in the long term.
Now a quiet peace rests upon the region and all is well. Again, good work. The goal has been achieved.
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Nachshon
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:47:00 -
[84]
I gather from these posts that Ushra'Khan and Against All Authorities have retaken Providence from CVA.
If so, I send the following message to Ushra'Khan:
Congratulations on your military victory. But you are not done yet. Now you must control Providence.
You will no doubt feel tempted to exact retribution on those neutrals who lived in Providence under CVA rule. Do not give in. If we are to defeat the Amarr, we must show that we are better than them. Instead, allow any and all who forsake slavery to live in Providence. Enact an NRDS policy, and fight piracy in Providence.
Many pilots who live in the Republic believe that you have become just another nullsec alliance. Prove them wrong.
Spear Lieutenant Nachshon ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom
My v |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.04.15 01:33:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 15/04/2010 01:34:23
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Borza Slavak
Exactly how what kind of window are you giving 'business as normal' to recommence before dismissing it as never going to happen? Minutes? Hours?
You tell me. I haven't heard of any timetables, I merely notice many new residents and new policies (and conflicts about them) already springing up.
For it's part as one of the new administrators of a constellation in Providence, all of Noir. Mercenary Group's stations (GA9, HP-6, H9-, and 7YW) have been reopened to the public for two days now. When I reviewed the station regulations upon transfer of ownership, i was appalled at how restrictive and exploitative they were unless your corporation was given the highest level of standing.
Naturally NMG. also wants to exploit the economic activity of those using our stations. However we're quite up front about our business plan, while CVA pronounced time and again how they were the benevolent friends of their holders and neutrals, "protecting" them so they could use Providence "freely". To hear CVA and their devotees tell it, we're blood thirsty pirates who sit in the lap of -A- want Providence all to ourselves.
In actuality, NMG. is an independent mercenary organization and our interests in Providence are almost purely financial. Since taking over the stations of the H-K constellation, we have opened ALL the services to the public and reduced the docking fees and taxes on most of the outposts, including the refinery tax. The market has gone from destitute to developing, and we intent to take it to thriving.
Unlike the previous occupants, we have no intentions to dictate the affairs, internal or otherwise, of neutrals who choose to make their living in our space nor will we ban anyone from docking for anything less than existentially disruptive behavior. Our relationship with -A- is simply that we agreed to abide by -A-'s sovereignty warfare ban; that's the sole extent of our obligations and of their influence on how we conduct our affairs. In fact, I endorse Manfred's experiment in governance and am very interested to see where it will lead.
We are also very upfront that while we plan to continue our rigorous contract schedule shorlty, and that we are very much a NBSI organization and will behave as such on the days we are "home". This is no secret, and we oft repeat it to those who ask about what conditions will be like in our space. The fact is that any pilot will not be much less safe now than they were under CVA's hand, except that we will make no false promises about your security so that you know to be on your guard and can be at the proper level of awareness and take measures to scout or defend yourselves properly.
The misleading nature of CVA's claims of a neutral-friendly, neutral-fair, and neutral-safe Providence have been fairly well brought to light over the course of this war. Isnt it time someone gave it to you straight? 0.0 is a dangerous place, and Providence is 0.0 But in many parts of Providence, in their own ways particular to their goals and cultures, groups like NMG. and others (UNITY when they stand down from a war footing) are willing to give anyone, including the previous occupants of the area who are not actively lashing out in desperation trying to disrupt local infrastructure and commerce, a fresh and fair chance at making their fortune.
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Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.15 01:36:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Xina Tutor ... This desire to keep Providence as it was is clear as they now rebuild this area in their own image. It is somehow familiar, yes so far shows the obvious signs of manufacture rather than the true dynamics on real space. In time I am sure that will change, but one is left to wonder if the resistriction imposed by -A- are not even more oppressive than the restrictions they claim CVA made upon it's holders. Restrictions I may note we rarely felt were such as an alliance.
And we all know some things happened that were beyond the control of -A- and they lost alliances from the area that they likely would have preferred remain in some form or other. Well fear not in that case as that was very unlikely in the long term.
Now a quiet peace rests upon the region and all is well. Again, good work. The goal has been achieved.
Best I can do is give you a perspective from the other side.
At the time before the conflict Fountain was falling and Delve was starting to heat up. It looked like a very long fight ahead. An assault on the homeland by Provibloc at that time seemed very ill-timed (to some even coordinated) and it drew our attention from a more important goal. For a few days we were constantly hopping catch to querios and back sometimes several times a day and the double front was making people unhappy. And then the Goons imploded. This left us with our full attention span to dedicate to the defense of Catch. The battle for D-G was plagued with unfortunate temporal disturbances. Nobody denies that. However the decision to jump the providence fleet out of the system was a poor one and if done otherwise (for example dropping the shields on the pos and engaging instead of jumping out) it would have shaped things quite differently. I remember at one point all carriers in our fleet straining to keep a titan from rapidly loosing armor. We all know what happened afterward so no point in recalling it.
Anyways after the battle an offer was made. At that time the idea of grinding through all of providence wasn't an appealing one and many pilots hoped an agreement would be reached. But the offer was refused. And refused with a veil of insult. That just couldn't stand. The idea put forward that -A- and allies didn't have the stamina to go through with an endeavor of such magnitude and would easily bore could have come only from someone who never experienced the way -A- worked on the inside. A month later the OP in this thread is the answer to the challenge.
If you look at things objectively not much has changed for -A- ... we still hold the same space, we have neutral neighbors a-plenty. The only thing that has changed for -A- is the threat that was on our borders was neutralized. Our allies have their old home back and we are very happy about it but for us it's back to the same old same old.
Yes the annihilation of Providence was an overreaction but one that could have been avoided after D-G.
Will New Providence be a new beacon of light in New Eden remains to be seen.
In any case I thank you for the exchange of opinions and the civilized manner in which it was executed.
Fly Safe. Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.15 01:46:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde I am a very smart businessman.
Good fortune to your organization.
---- CEO - BDCI |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 03:18:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Mnement'h
In any case I thank you for the exchange of opinions and the civilized manner in which it was executed.
Fly Safe.
Indeed, and thank you as well. The implosion of the goon alliance was of course something of an unfortunate bit of timing for some. We know this, of course.
I know it is said that many holders skulked away and would not fight, but the warriors amongst us have never feared such and happily will seek to cross swords with any who will face us on the battlefield. Once Atlas was engaged in a full call to action and was simply there to remove us, however, there was no fight. It was simply a removal of sovreignty with all forces at their disposal. It was better to then move elsewhere and continue to fight and die as we know how.
Space, after all, is just space.
I will certainly try to find time to visit the area in the future and see how things progress.
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Kazzzi
Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.04.15 05:14:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Nachshon
If so, I send the following message to Ushra'Khan:
Congratulations on your military victory. But you are not done yet. Now you must control Providence.
Nah, bud. Providence will rule itself. U'K are warriors, not empire builders. CVA may have been U'K's sworn enemy for years, but they aren't the only slavers in the universe. U'K still has work to do.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.15 06:01:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Well neven more than that really. It was -A- who first attacked sovreignty. CVA never actually attacked sovreignty in any legally registered -A- system. All rather humorous really, all the chest beating and ego and false calls for peace.
That is simply not true. On January 8, forces led by CVA and LFA deployed TCUs in four systems in Catch, known to be part of -A- territory, regardless of whether they were legally registered or not. Additionally, shortly thereafter, SBUs were deployed in -A- critical jumpbridge system HED-GP, a clear violation of -A- sovereign claims.
While the SBUs in HED-GP were destroyed, the fact remains that there was a clear violation of -A- registered sovereign space.
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