Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Javajunky
|
Posted - 2010.04.13 22:19:00 -
[1]
I thought I would chime in on Macro Mining, unfortunately the only real solution to macro mining is going to require an investment by CCP. This was a post a few pages back talking about the issue at hand, honestly I donÆt like the OPÆs suggestion, so I thought I would offer this alternative for consideration.
********** As a former WoW player, I watched Blizzard tackle this problem several years ago by creating a software application called Warden, now included with Warcraft and periodically updated. Essentially the application scans your machine for the common software or characteristics of common software that could be a bot or macro program for the game. Specifics on Warden are probably readily available and could be better understood by programming types (which I am not).
In Warcraft, bot / macro folks have the upper hand since you can simply grind up another character in a matter of days on a new account, hopefully donÆt get caught again for a while or try a different software application. I believe CCP would have the upper hand in this situation as it takes months to get a new account skilled up (not days as you can in Warcraft)
CouldnÆt they just buy a new character using the player bazaar? Swap out a macro program? Sure but youÆll quickly dry up the mining character market in the player bazaar forcing prices to skyrocket. Now they are forced to pay RL money to get back to mining. At the same time the ISK sellers who use these programs are taking a huge hit because their software may not be running anymore so the cost of buying ISK illegally goes higher thus making legal PLEX card more attractive and without the risk of getting another account banned. Or maybe they will look at the price in terms or ISK or RL money and say itÆs just not worth it anymore? IÆm not an economist, IÆm just trying process the logic.
The real question comes down to development costs, IÆm not a programmer so I canÆt begin to peel back the layers of this onion. But here are some business issues that come to mind for me.
- WeÆre not Blizzard, accounts matter - how many accounts do we lose if we implement this change? 10,000 û 20,000 accounts? WhatÆs the impact to the bottom line?
- Many bot accounts are also 2nd accounts of players, will we lose them possibly?
- Is the investment required to solve the problem going to have any real positive impact on player loyalty or subscriber growth? Players will always find something to complain about in the game, look at the forums. What are the ongoing costs to keep the application updated for new bots?
- The player question, if there really are that many macroÆs out there, mass removal of these macroÆs would send prices for everything higher, is the player base prepared for those consequences. Oh and IÆm not talking about the guy with 90 Million SPÆs and the equivalent ISK GDP of Iceland, IÆm talking about that big swath of casual players who most hardcores fail to remember that these people keep the game alive too.
Personally as a player I would fully support and allow CCP to install Bot/Macro monitoring software as part of Eve Online. I donÆt really think of it as an invasion of privacy, Blizzard had a little grief when they did it in WoW but everyone got over it.
CCP has probably looked at the cost or technical issues of doing something like this already and nixed it for some reason. Anyone care to chime in if it has been tabled, I canÆt seem to find it anywhere. Otherwise who supports this suggestion?
|
Cristopher Dante
|
Posted - 2010.04.13 22:57:00 -
[2]
Some good ideas here.
But ultimately, as its been pointed out to me, I don't think the time is right for CCP to tackle the macro issues.
Sure, they will keep it in reasonable check through Unholy Rage type iniatives. But right now they a)need the macro accounts for revenue and b)rely on macros to keep the mineral prices low enough to support the massive ISK-abyss of 0.0 warfare.
I think that EVE after D-514 and Incarna will present the perfect opportunity to overhaul mining, tweak the economy, and get rid of the macros for good.
|
Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:14:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Cristopher Dante b)rely on macros to keep the mineral prices low enough to support the massive ISK-abyss of 0.0 warfare.
This is absolute crap. People were paying isk for their ships years ago before the macro miners when people were wondering how they were going to be able to afford their t1 battleship hulls. And when loosing something say, a dreadnaught, was epic news.
|
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
|
Posted - 2010.04.14 05:01:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Javajunky I watched Blizzard tackle this problem several years ago by creating a software application called Warden, now included with Warcraft and periodically updated. Essentially the application scans your machine for the common software or characteristics of common software that could be a bot or macro program for the game.
You have just hit on one of the primary reasons I am not a WoW player. And the second CCP introduces an intrusive scanning program to their software, I'll quit playing Eve. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I support macro players - they are, in a nutshell, cheaters, and should be banned when caught.
But on the flip side, I do not want a game company scanning my computer.
CCP has proven that they have the ability to deal with macro users without this type of intrusion. Let's keep it that way. --Vel
Originally by: Jiseinoku
Mining is the path to enlightement.
|
Mortimer Civeri
|
Posted - 2010.04.14 07:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Javajunky I watched Blizzard tackle this problem several years ago by creating a software application called Warden, now included with Warcraft and periodically updated. Essentially the application scans your machine for the common software or characteristics of common software that could be a bot or macro program for the game.
You have just hit on one of the primary reasons I am not a WoW player. And the second CCP introduces an intrusive scanning program to their software, I'll quit playing Eve. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I support macro players - they are, in a nutshell, cheaters, and should be banned when caught.
But on the flip side, I do not want a game company scanning my computer.
CCP has proven that they have the ability to deal with macro users without this type of intrusion. Let's keep it that way.
No CCP has not proved that they can handle Macroers. When reported, CCP has done nothing to "accounts' that have been proven to mine 23-7. Macroers have had free reign for far to long. The macro miners have squeezed out most legitimate miners who can't compete with 23-7 mining. The only reason prices haven't crashed, due to macro miners, is because of the artificial floor created by insurance. Stop the bot farmers CCP, then maybe mining will be a profession, rather than a place to set up a bot and get a passive income.
|
Trader Jen
|
Posted - 2010.04.14 16:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Javajunky Essentially the application scans your machine
u realize the pandora's box you open when a company you're paying cash to starts scanning YOUR personal computer for stuff? |
Hien Morisato
|
Posted - 2010.04.14 21:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Trader Jen
Originally by: Javajunky Essentially the application scans your machine
u realize the pandora's box you open when a company you're paying cash to starts scanning YOUR personal computer for stuff?
Alrighty Ladies and Gents first off great idea gonna support it. The problem should be addressed in a timely manner and I'm sure CCP has made preparations for this problem. As for a company you're paying cash to starts scanning "YOUR" personal computer for stuff.....yeah umm....thought anti-virus programs, anti-spyware, anti-malware, etc. etc. etc. all do that already not to mention your operating system does that as well when its scanning your system to see if its ready for an update not to mention games that scan "YOUR" system to see what files need to be patched. lol if your thinking that there is a chance for the company to "steal" your identity and/or private financial information from your computer system. A corporation depending on how its set up is its own person so to speak as far as the government or governments are concerned. "Stealing" from a individual just isn't worth the time and resources spent. Not to mention the legal repercussions associated with that sort of theft on a corporate level. So there really is no pandora's box because nothing can really happen
|
Taxesarebad
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 00:45:00 -
[8]
i also played wow, 4 months and only saw 1 macroing player. i was on a HIGH pop server too.. another idea from another game, ( silk road) was a item players could buy and use on another player, it would great somthing ( no idea what honestly) and i the player didnt talk to it or somthing the thing would kill them... i dont think it would work in eve though. but instead of attack maybe force logoff...
|
JcJet
Stone Circle Tower of Dark Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 09:10:00 -
[9]
/supported 1. ISP is providing your personal data to authority, by the law. 2. There is a alternative - make mining a less boring so more real people will take that profession + writing a macro will be mutch difficult. ---
|
Javajunky
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 18:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Javajunky on 15/04/2010 18:56:07 This is the best summary information I could find on Blizzard's Warden application.
Wikipedia - Warden
To the poster who said it's a pandora's box thing. I contend this, if the problem is as bad people are inclined to believe, the best thing to do is not harm or change legitimate players but to go after the software and users of that macro software.
Ultimately, yes it is a form of spyware, but monitored and regulated by the CSM community and perhaps audited by a 3rd party source to ensure that the software is strictly being utilized as it was intended, overall its a big plus for both CCP and players in the game.
An additional point is the fact that legal challenges have been made against Blizzard for the Warden application, and those challenges have even been upheld on appeal. I didn't quit playing WoW when it was launched because I believed that it was for the best interest of the game. I don't believe you would see a loss in subscriptions as a result of such implementation, sure some concern, but if the CSM community and a 3rd party can have the right to audit the application I believe you meet on fair and middle ground.
|
|
Imigo Montoya
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 22:49:00 -
[11]
Macros aren't only used for mining, but ratting and scam spamming too.
Quote: mass removal of these macroÆs would send prices for everything higher
Not necessarily. People who use macros have large amounts of passive income to purchase things that they want to use (meta 4, tech 2 and faction gear), and don't really care what they spend on them. Removing these (cheating) passive ISK fountains will mean that all purchases will have to be made with ISK that is earned, and so will offset the lack of mineral floods.
Another tool to help solve the macro issue is data mining. I was sitting in Jita the other day and I could set my watch by the scam spam - one was posting exactly every 73.2 seconds. No human being could do that, and there are many other tell tale signs of macro use. A very basic application to look through CCPs logs would reveal macro use, a couple of examples of things to look for would be: 23/7 activity (people NEED to sleep) and unnaturally consistent behaviour (timings of command sequences being consistent to the millisecond).
These could flag accounts to a GM much like an email spam filter with a probability that the account is a macro user, and even have a threshold for autoban to save staff time.
I too disagree with the involvement of CONCORD with macro use, as it is highly likely that an empire hulk miner will be afk mining and will miss any request.
And as for having software that scans your computer - so long as it is limited in its scope to search for known macro programs, I see no issue. As has been mentioned, many software packages do just that as their primary reason for existing.
For CCP this is a credibility issue. If macro use is against the EULA, and therefore cheating, it is diminishing the game for legitimate users who play within the rules no matter what positive role it may play (provision of lots of minerals is a pretty poor justification for cheating). If CCP does nothing about it, their credibility is in question - if they knowingly ignore obvious macro use then their credibility goes down the toilet.
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 23:53:00 -
[12]
Are you kidding me?
So macros are so amazingly dangerous that we should all give CCP permission to install a trojan on our computers, allowing them to arbitrarily decide what processes we are allowed to use.
How could anyone believe that is a "solution". I think CCP care a little more about their customers then the faceless Blizzard.
At the end of the day, having some piece of software installed is no indication of macro use.
|
Imigo Montoya
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 01:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith So macros are so amazingly dangerous that we should all give CCP permission to install a trojan on our computers, allowing them to arbitrarily decide what processes we are allowed to use.
If the software that a company uses to check whether cheats are being used (ie not just installed) does that and only that, then it's not a trojan by definition. If it goes beyond the scope of what CCP informs their users of, then yes it would be, but instances of that (Sony and Spore) have had huge repercussions for the companies involved that I doubt anybody (particularly CCP) would do that.
Also, the decision about what processes we can use is not arbitrary. Any software developed for this purpose should only target processes that are known to be used solely to breach the EULA of CCP's software.
After all, if the one and only use for running a piece of software is to breach another piece of software's EULA, what reason would the be to install it, let alone run it, other than to do just that? If the only effect that CCP's (theoretical) macro-finding software has is to disable CCP's software from running if such processes are found then what exactly is the problem?
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 01:27:00 -
[14]
given how paranoid people are about macro miner ... i can just say ... as long every solo miner, who mines with warping to stations is marked as macro miner, I wont support this. i want real numbers before supporting such heavy measurement.
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 04:03:00 -
[15]
I use AHK to change the mousewheel behavour for different windows in the Adobe Flash IDE.
Should I be blocked from playing the game I've enjoyed since 2004?
|
Imigo Montoya
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 07:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith I use AHK to change the mousewheel behavour for different windows in the Adobe Flash IDE.
I think you're confusing input macros (which still require a human to initiate an input sequence) for software designed specifically to automatically run an EVE Online client - which is what the term 'macro' is refering to in this context.
|
Javajunky
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 14:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: darius mclever given how paranoid people are about macro miner ... i can just say ... as long every solo miner, who mines with warping to stations is marked as macro miner, I wont support this. i want real numbers before supporting such heavy measurement.
Not even remotely close to being a true statement. If you are playing the game and docking your ship yourself, you are free to play the game and pay for 1 or a hundred accounts it doesn't matter. If you are using a 3rd party application to perform any task in game you are a macro. That is a violation of the EULA.
An application to detect a macro is not going to watch what you are specifically doing in the game per-se, it's going to look for the applications or processes that are commonly available in the market that may be installed on your machine and trigger a flag to your account or maybe that IP address. IÆm certain CCP / CSM community could do a cost analysis or table a cost analysis on the feasibility in resource allocation, upfront and ongoing costs. Remember, throwing resources at this problem really means taking resources that could be allocated to other parts of the game or going out of pocket and bringing 3rd party resources to solve the problem. ItÆs a cost issue as much as a gaming issue in the view of business managers.
Honestly I donÆt know how bad the problem is, IÆm a relatively new player, I really enjoy the game and IÆm happy two offer my 0.02 ISK on the subject. But realistically speaking, you will be hard pressed to find a work-able solution that involves CCP in game babysitters, Concord, CaptchaÆs or any other means. You may get some macroÆs by say monitoring play time sure, flag accounts for specific habits and the macro writers with just change the habits (random number generators are probably very probably counter tactic). Search for macro programs or components of macro programs to flag the code, macro writers are going to turn their attention to other MMOÆs that require less resources to make profits on.
In terms of Warcraft, when bots / macros started disappearing from the game, they turned their focus onto key loggers to hack and ransack accounts. Logging in to see all your items sold, characters naked and your ISK gone is a very traumatic experience. If CCP does look at this avenue I would also suggest looking at implementing Authenticators as well since key logger ransacks are probably the next best easy source of money, feel free to reference these Authenticators on Blizzards site, just donÆt buy there game (ha ha). It was the best $6.50 I ever spent, I very much recommend this option, they now make the software free to install on several phone applications like the iPhone but thatÆs a post for another day.
There is no such thing as a perfect solution, there is always going to be someone out there figuring out the next best way to game the system and yes they make figure out a work around. I personally know a developer that plays WOW and writes personal bots, gets caught and makes a hobby out of trying to beat the Blizzard. HeÆs probably a little more successful because he doesnÆt market or sell what he makes but there are people out there that will try just for the challenge. ItÆs certain that security is a budget item in gaming development but IÆd be very curious to know how much of a budget it continues to get after a launch.
Java
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 18:23:00 -
[18]
you didnt get the point.
I first want numbers that macro mining really has such a big impact as you claim, maybe you get out the sledge hammer to hit a small bug. I saw people claiming that our solo mining behavior is an indication for macro miner. and then i can just laugh. If your assumption of "too many macro miners" is based on similar faulty perceptions, then i would really object it.
that said ... ask CCP for numbers. before bringing forward such a big change.
|
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 18:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mortimer Civeri No CCP has not proved that they can handle Macroers. When reported, CCP has done nothing to "accounts' that have been proven to mine 23-7.
Wait, mining for 23 hours straight means you are running a macro? What about watching a ship for 23 hours straight so you know they are mining for 23 hours straight? Does that require a macro?
This signature is useless, but it is red.
|
Trader Jen
|
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hien Morisato
Originally by: Trader Jen
Originally by: Javajunky Essentially the application scans your machine
u realize the pandora's box you open when a company you're paying cash to starts scanning YOUR personal computer for stuff?
Alrighty Ladies and Gents first off great idea gonna support it. The problem should be addressed in a timely manner and I'm sure CCP has made preparations for this problem. As for a company you're paying cash to starts scanning "YOUR" personal computer for stuff.....yeah umm....thought anti-virus programs, anti-spyware, anti-malware, etc. etc. etc. all do that already not to mention your operating system does that as well when its scanning your system to see if its ready for an update not to mention games that scan "YOUR" system to see what files need to be patched. lol if your thinking that there is a chance for the company to "steal" your identity and/or private financial information from your computer system. A corporation depending on how its set up is its own person so to speak as far as the government or governments are concerned. "Stealing" from a individual just isn't worth the time and resources spent. Not to mention the legal repercussions associated with that sort of theft on a corporate level. So there really is no pandora's box because nothing can really happen
nuff said |
|
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:32:00 -
[21]
CCP implementing a scanning program to the game is an awful idea and it will be a dealbreaker for many EVE players for various reasons.
The only potential upside for a scanning program is that it could be used to help protect players against keyloggers, and only un-clever keyloggers that don't try to bypass the software.
MAZZILLIU FOR CSM 2010 |
Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2010.04.24 03:32:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lady Spank on 24/04/2010 03:36:35 How about a report macro user similar to the 'report isk spammer' right click option.
Could set automated logging of that character for a period of time. Trouble being it's less simple to clarify people abusing it over people that are just misinformed.
Ultimately CCP have demonstrated they can unleash unholy rage, It would just be nice if they could do it more often.
EDIT: Essentially advocating spyware to be packaged with the client is a big no no however. Just adding my thoughts.
I thoroughly expect to see all those Russian 'bug reporters' stepping in here and showing some support too ~_~
|
Ahsekuaw
Brother Theo's Monastery The Ancients.
|
Posted - 2010.04.24 06:48:00 -
[23]
Not supported.
Clearly the macro miners need to be addressed. But putting a piece of spyware on players PCs is not the answer. There have to be other ways to catch these people. Perhaps by pulling the informaion out of the server side databases rather than sticking a piece of code in the client. Information such as length of time connected, frequency & timing of docks, etc.
I would like to see CCPs numbers on this and what effect they see this having on the game.
Ahs
|
Redshirt I
|
Posted - 2010.04.24 15:53:00 -
[24]
Not supported.
Pretty much lost me at "As a former WoW player..." The day that CCP implements an idea from WoW to make EVE "Better" is the day I wrap up my 5 acconts and go back to LOTRO.
I found it interesting how CCP worded their reponse from fanfest where they were specifically asked about macro mining. It was something along the lines of "We investigate every report, but the majority of macro miners aren't RMT and are in fact spending the Isk on the game economy..." I am too lazy to find the exact fantfest video but feel free to look.
Roid mining is not the problem, after switching over to missions I can tell that mission farming is the bigger threat, its just that most people don't get to easily see it as they do field mining. When I was mining, there were 2 macro miners or AFK miners that I would see all the time, it doesn't take too much effort to figure out how to move them away from your mining ops, quit being lazy and figure it out.
RMT players should be banned, I don't give a cuss about macro miners as long as they aren't RMT's.
|
Hien Morisato
|
Posted - 2010.05.03 17:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Trader Jen
Originally by: Hien Morisato
Originally by: Trader Jen
Originally by: Javajunky Essentially the application scans your machine
u realize the pandora's box you open when a company you're paying cash to starts scanning YOUR personal computer for stuff?
Alrighty Ladies and Gents first off great idea gonna support it. The problem should be addressed in a timely manner and I'm sure CCP has made preparations for this problem. As for a company you're paying cash to starts scanning "YOUR" personal computer for stuff.....yeah umm....thought anti-virus programs, anti-spyware, anti-malware, etc. etc. etc. all do that already not to mention your operating system does that as well when its scanning your system to see if its ready for an update not to mention games that scan "YOUR" system to see what files need to be patched. lol if your thinking that there is a chance for the company to "steal" your identity and/or private financial information from your computer system. A corporation depending on how its set up is its own person so to speak as far as the government or governments are concerned. "Stealing" from a individual just isn't worth the time and resources spent. Not to mention the legal repercussions associated with that sort of theft on a corporate level. So there really is no pandora's box because nothing can really happen
nuff said
Interesting reading Trader Jen and thank you for your post. Sony BMG was well within they're rights to produce software on CDs they created for their clients being that they had to protect their clients copy rights against music pirates which is why there is that nice FBI warning at the beginning of every DVD you purchase. As well as on the back of a CD case. This has to deal with copy right laws, and incorrect documentation of software being issued to the end user. If you really wish to go down this legal route with me that is perfectly fine. Being that this same issue has been brought up in multiple markets about a company having incorrect documentation on a product for end users. A good example of this is the Food labeling regulations on food products, or Ethanol and methyl Tert-butyl ether which a lot of fuel companies used to use because MTBE was cheaper then Ethanol which now MTBE is outlawed for several reasons. We could even bring up the nuclear industry or a retail outlet called "Wal-mart" lol there is plenty of legal examples and if you want to continue down the route of computer software we can do that as well I'm sure I can find another software title by a big company that had incorrect documentation on its protection software. It wasn't the companies intentions to "scan" a personal computer for Private information. It was their intention to prevent the end-user music pirates from stealing. It just so happened that their coding was flawed in a way that it brought legal repercussions. Being that it installed itself silently with out the end-users knowledge, and did not offer the ability to remove itself which in that case is considered spy-ware or a virus of which it did make the system sluggish and allowed access to third-party users of which could have stolen personal data. But again I bring up my same argument as before, we have software already on our systems that scan your personal data everyday if not every 5 minutes if you truly wish to be safe from such privacy invasion don't connect the computer you have all your personal data on to the internet and/or don't have a computer at all.
|
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2010.05.03 19:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hien Morisato
Originally by: Trader Jen
nuff said
Interesting reading Trader Jen and thank you for your post. Sony BMG was well within they're rights to produce software on CDs they created for their clients being that they had to protect their clients copy rights against music pirates which is why there is that nice FBI warning at the beginning of every DVD you purchase. As well as on the back of a CD case. This has to deal with copy right laws, and incorrect documentation of software being issued to the end user. If you really wish to go down this legal route with me that is perfectly fine. Being that this same issue has been brought up in multiple markets about a company having incorrect documentation on a product for end users. A good example of this is the Food labeling regulations on food products, or Ethanol and methyl Tert-butyl ether which a lot of fuel companies used to use because MTBE was cheaper then Ethanol which now MTBE is outlawed for several reasons. We could even bring up the nuclear industry or a retail outlet called "Wal-mart" lol there is plenty of legal examples and if you want to continue down the route of computer software we can do that as well I'm sure I can find another software title by a big company that had incorrect documentation on its protection software. It wasn't the companies intentions to "scan" a personal computer for Private information. It was their intention to prevent the end-user music pirates from stealing. It just so happened that their coding was flawed in a way that it brought legal repercussions. Being that it installed itself silently with out the end-users knowledge, and did not offer the ability to remove itself which in that case is considered spy-ware or a virus of which it did make the system sluggish and allowed access to third-party users of which could have stolen personal data. But again I bring up my same argument as before, we have software already on our systems that scan your personal data everyday if not every 5 minutes if you truly wish to be safe from such privacy invasion don't connect the computer you have all your personal data on to the internet and/or don't have a computer at all.
Adding an extra process that runs continuously (or for a long time) is contrary to the idea of "need for speed" and would seriously mess with fleet fights.
Currently, many people log out then log back in right before a fight to clear their cache, dial down graphics, shut down other processes on their computer, turn off brackets, restart their routers, and various other things in hopes of better performance in a fight. If something like this was on Eve clients, everyone and their sister would want some way to circumvent the scanner to prevent it from using up system resources. Something like this would hurt more than it helped.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
|
Red Raider
Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
|
Posted - 2010.05.03 22:46:00 -
[27]
I like it but the "tinfoil hat"/"macro mining"/"I am not a macro miner but hate the idea but secretly macro mine" crowd will refuse to let it pass.
|
Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2010.05.03 23:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: darius mclever you didnt get the point.
I first want numbers that macro mining really has such a big impact as you claim, maybe you get out the sledge hammer to hit a small bug. I saw people claiming that our solo mining behavior is an indication for macro miner. and then i can just laugh. If your assumption of "too many macro miners" is based on similar faulty perceptions, then i would really object it.
Lol typical Darius trying to make out a big problem small.
You think 2 Hulks and an Orca mining 23/7 isn't going to make a big impact? It's not about the solo miners, its about the macro fleets. These fleets regularly sell inhuman amounts of minerals to their suppliers, people have attested to it, I even know a corpmate who does it. I'm not surprised, 2 hulks going at it 23/7? That's a lot of Ore. Even the solo hulks can rack up a lot.
Quote: that said ... ask CCP for numbers. before bringing forward such a big change.
The numbers don't need to be flaunted by CCP, just ask the manufacturers. You can get the sources from there, numbers don't lie, a ship that mines 23 hours in one day is not being manned by a pilot that is for sure.
That said. It really is sort of pathetic how knee jerking the response it by Eve players. "No way! TOTALLY DO NOT IMPLIMENT I will TOTALLY QUIT EVE" "ITS SPYWARE" I'm sorry, I thought spyware went around trying to find passwords, sensitive documents, and credit cards. Not check your computer for bots. People wouldn't even notice it if CCP implimented it. The paranoia is hysterical.
I would totally support this if CCP could get the macros off the game.
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2010.05.04 01:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
That said. It really is sort of pathetic how knee jerking the response it by Eve players. "No way! TOTALLY DO NOT IMPLIMENT I will TOTALLY QUIT EVE" "ITS SPYWARE" I'm sorry, I thought spyware went around trying to find passwords, sensitive documents, and credit cards. Not check your computer for bots. People wouldn't even notice it if CCP implimented it. The paranoia is hysterical.
CCP has ZERO right to determine what software I'm allowed to run on my computer.
This proposal states that the software will be the target, not the actions of that software.
Thus simply having the wrong file on your computer is enough to get you flagged.
This "solution" is simply rediculious.
Blizzard is just TV, as if they care if they kick off a few legit users. I'd hate to see how long CCP would last after the first round of false positives.
"Do you own a gun? Here is your murder charge."
|
Zedia Zhane
|
Posted - 2010.05.04 02:31:00 -
[30]
There are easier and far less intrusive ways to detect macros than to scan the entire computer for macro software.
A macro will repeat on the exact same time cycle (as someone pointed out earlier regarding a JIta scammer). The clicks will happen on the same pixel of the client every time. And so on.
At some point, a macro miner needs to unload their cargo hold. All you do is start a timer when they do so, and count the exact time to the next command, and what that next command is. If the time gap is always the same, and the next command is always the same... Then you've got a macro issuing the commands.
Macro miners might respond by making more complicated macros that rotate through different time gaps in unloading the cargo hold. But eventually it will repeat. And given that all you're tracking per unload is the number of milliseconds and what the next command is... You can easily store a sequence of 10,000 pauses after unloading. And easily scan for the kind of repetition that indicates a macro is being used. Once you suspect that a macro is being used, and know the repetition cycle, you can go through and record time gaps between each keystroke and each mouseclick, the specific pixel of each click, and so on, in order to get whatever level of proof you feel comfortable with in order to ban the player.
All of which can easily be built into the client.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |