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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:43:00 -
[1]
The new MacBook Pro range was released/announced today. Sadly the 13" MacBook Pro still has a shared-memory graphics chipset.
Any idea how well the nVIDIA GeForce GT 330M (in the high-end 15" and 17" MacBook Pros) works compared to, say, the ATI Radeon 2600 Pro from the 24" iMac on my desk?
Would the GeForce 320M in the 13" MacBook Pro be even worth considering if my current home computer is a 17" iMac with the ATI Radeon x1600?
Ultimately I'm looking at replacing both my existing white 13" MacBook and 17" iMac with a 13" MacBook Pro - I already have a 24" screen on the desk hooked up to the iMac.
Apart from programming, I want this machine to be able to run EVE Online and WoW. I'm mostly exploring, running missions and dabbling in industry at this point in time - the biggest fleet I've been in is about 200 ships on grid - this doesn't look like changing any time soon. I do multibox though - at present I have two clients running reliably on the 17" Core 2 Duo iMac (2GHz processor). The 13" MacBook is not too inconvenient for reading mail and catching up on news while on the bus.
So two conflicting priorities here - I want to run EVE better than my current setup, and I want to cut down the number of computers in my possession. Is the new 13" MacBook Pro good enough in the graphics department to replace my current iMac?
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Apple Boy
Gallente Legion Of Boom Fear Th3 Vampires
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Posted - 2010.04.15 16:04:00 -
[2]
They actually came out tuesday, I bought the 17" i7 I'm currently getting 37FPS with the OS X client and my mbp is running much cooler (79-80C) than my old mbp with the c2d and ati card.
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Emberday
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Posted - 2010.04.15 18:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Apple Boy They actually came out tuesday, I bought the 17" i7 I'm currently getting 37FPS with the OS X client and my mbp is running much cooler (79-80C) than my old mbp with the c2d and ati card.
Can you indicate what graphic options and what resolution you are using please ?
And unless I'm mistaken, your 17" came with the 330M, a higher-spec videocard then the 320M.
I would love to see a benchmark on the new 13" 320M equipped model ...
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.04.16 01:24:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Solbright on 16/04/2010 01:24:44 Reading Wikipedia's comparisons charts, the X1600 comes out the worst of what you've listed:
X1600 Pro: test formatting llllllllll llll llllllllll
oops :) ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.04.16 05:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Solbright
Model GT/s GB/s ======= ====== ====== 2600 Pro 4.8 22.4 X1600 Pro 2.0 12.8
310M 5.0 12.8 (Reference for 320M)
Would those numbers indicate that the 320M will give performance similar to the 2600 Pro in the iMac on my work desk? Or are these numbers just meaningless comparisons that bear no relation to actual, achievable framerates in EVE Online?
If the 13" MacBook Pro is capable of similar performance to my work computer, I'd buy one today! [Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Dengen Krastinov
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.16 05:43:00 -
[6]
I'm a little bit disappointed. The 330M doesn't seem to be much of an improvement over the 9600 gt when running eve. No noticeable increase in frames.
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Flynn Fetladral
BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2010.04.16 10:47:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Flynn Fetladral on 16/04/2010 10:48:16 The new Core i7 chip in the MBP 15 / 17 inch models with Turbo Cache should make a big difference to EVE, but the NVIDIA 330M does not seem to be a huge improvement over the 9600M GT. I'm also interested to see how the Graphics Switching works, or if it starts to feck up. Is there a way on the 2010 MBP's to force the graphics card?
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.04.16 13:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Would those numbers indicate that the 320M will give performance similar to the 2600 Pro in the iMac on my work desk?
Reading this article where "... is based on the GT216 core, and offers 48 shader cores." suggests it's actually closer to the 330M rather than the 310M.
But then "... gaming performance of the 320M should be comparable to, but slightly better than, a 310M." implies there is something that'll slash it's typical speed back down again. Best guess is 64 bit memory bus width would fit the bill. That would make good sense for for power and cost savings also. Especially since it's partnered up to a Core2 which is also only a 64 bit processor bus.
Looking at the graphs on that page shows it's notably faster than the earlier 9400M.
I'd take a stab at the following stats:
Model GT/s GB/s ======= ====== ====== 2600 Pro 4.8 22.4 320M 4.6 12.8
So, half the RAM speed of the 2600 but still potentially the same framerate based on rendering hardware.
Quote: Or are these numbers just meaningless comparisons that bear no relation to actual, achievable framerates in EVE Online?
In some ways Eve is heavily dependent on the CPU speed. And you have to bear in mind that the CPU is sharing it's time with the GPU for RAM accesses where as on the iMac you have two independent sets of RAM.
It prolly won't be quite as good as the iMac.
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.04.16 13:32:00 -
[9]
The sort of differences that might be: Lower GPU core clock for power saving, and higher memory clock to match the CPU. So specs might be somthing like 8.0 GTexels/sec and 17.0 GBytes/sec.
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.04.16 14:15:00 -
[10]
Compare that with the 15" models which have 128 bit buses for each of CPU and GPU separately. For 3D games that's a potential 4x RAM speed over the 13" models.
I haven't run such comparisons but it's gotta make a difference.
Also, regarding comparing the 2009 MBP15" with the 2010 MBP15", along with the faster CPU, the GT330M GPU has 48 processors vs the 9600M GT GPU's 32 processors. Both running at similar clock-rates. That'll help push it above the 2009 MBP framerates.
I shied away from listing the processor count as they don't compare between the Radeons and GeForces.
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
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Apple Boy
Gallente Legion Of Boom Fear Th3 Vampires
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Posted - 2010.04.16 15:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Flynn Fetladral Edited by: Flynn Fetladral on 16/04/2010 10:48:16 The new Core i7 chip in the MBP 15 / 17 inch models with Turbo Cache should make a big difference to EVE, but the NVIDIA 330M does not seem to be a huge improvement over the 9600M GT. I'm also interested to see how the Graphics Switching works, or if it starts to feck up. Is there a way on the 2010 MBP's to force the graphics card?
So far the graphics switching has worked flawlessly for me on the os x side. I haven't copied my bootcamp image over yet so I can't tell you how well it works under windows.
other noticable things: Battery life is more around 6 hours with web, irc, mail, ssh, and office open. lighter and thinner yet Eve hasn't made the CPU or GPU go above 80C yet for me the fans are still conservative in ramping up (2600 RPM when the CPU and GPU are at 80C) new power plug (it's sideways) overall it isn't significantly more awesome than the c2d's of the previous mbp revisions.
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SgryndI
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Posted - 2010.04.19 03:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: SgryndI on 19/04/2010 03:23:58 Any word on FPS on the new mbp's? Multiple clients?
I am looking at a 15" with the i7, but if it won't play better than my current crappy laptop I will just save the $ and wait.
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Argo Pyxis
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Posted - 2010.04.20 20:24:00 -
[13]
I just took delivery of the new 15" i7 MBP this morning (with the hi-res anti-glare screen option), an upgrade from my 1st gen C2D 15" MBP from 2007.
First: the hi-res screen is exquisite. It's almost too high of a resolution for a 15.4" screen, but for my photography needs it's great. It's just something to get used to and I'll enjoy the extra pixels.
Second: The automatic graphics chip switching works as advertised and can be managed via the Energy Saver prefpane (ie; keep it on automatic or always pegged to the nvidia 330M) ... there are no screen artifacts when the switch happens in that you don't see any indication such as a pause or the screen momentarily blanking... it's so transparent that I had to verify through System Profiler which graphics chip had the screen allocated to it. From what I can tell there's some sort of multiplexer sitting between the Intel and Nvidia GPUs and the LCD which manages this.
Third: EVE performance. Nothing terribly in-depth to report yet, but cursory fiddling with HDR on and blooming set to low gave me a constant 28-30 fps, with long stretches/spikes upwards to 55 and 60 fps when flying around some roid fields. I'll have more time tonight to play around with this aspect.
As a upgrade for my own needs, it's a superb machine and will surely exceed what I'm used to on my early 2007 MBP model.
/AP
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Ellamar
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Posted - 2010.04.21 09:34:00 -
[14]
Hello you all!
I'm also considering getting a new MBP soon. What I like to know is how much the Mac client benefits from the new MBP Features. The integrated memory controller should bring some improvement I think. What interrest me the most, is the Hyper-Threading on the new Macs. What is the actual status of Cider's multi-threading capabilities anyway? I searched the forums a bit, and as far as I understood, only Sisi allows multi threading. Is this feature already ported to TQ?, or is this whole multi-threading thing by far not so important as I think.
Maybe someone more fit on these topics than I am can put things like memory, CPU, GPU a bit in perspective concerning cider performance.
Thanks!
Ellamar
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ellamar ... I searched the forums a bit, and as far as I understood, only Sisi allows multi threading. Is this feature already ported to TQ?, or is this whole multi-threading thing by far not so important as I think.
Multi-threading is useful, particularly now that the processor count is on the rise. However, like most games, the Eve client almost makes no use of it at the OS level - neither in the singularity client nor in the tranquility client.
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Fin Bayrunner
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:35:00 -
[16]
I picked up a 13inch MBP on Monday and EVE runs fine on it with no noticible performance issues. However earlier today when I was scanning probes I got black and white square artefacts all over the screen and had to reboot to get rid of them. I ran EVE again straight away without a cool down time and it was fine.
Any thoughts on this or was it just a wine glitch?
As I said the game seems to run fine and isn't running that hot from what I can feel. Haven't run it on a mac before so nothing to compare it too.
NO idea how to benchmark it if someone wants me to, let me know what I need to do!
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2010.04.22 02:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fin Bayrunner ... or was it just a wine glitch?
Are you using Winebottler?
----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Fin Bayrunner
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Posted - 2010.04.22 07:44:00 -
[18]
I'm using the official mac client so by wine glitch I meant cider or whatever. Tested my temps and with the game running I sit at around 83 degrees
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Flynn Fetladral
BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Apple Boy
Originally by: Flynn Fetladral Edited by: Flynn Fetladral on 16/04/2010 10:48:16 The new Core i7 chip in the MBP 15 / 17 inch models with Turbo Cache should make a big difference to EVE, but the NVIDIA 330M does not seem to be a huge improvement over the 9600M GT. I'm also interested to see how the Graphics Switching works, or if it starts to feck up. Is there a way on the 2010 MBP's to force the graphics card?
So far the graphics switching has worked flawlessly for me on the os x side. I haven't copied my bootcamp image over yet so I can't tell you how well it works under windows.
other noticable things: Battery life is more around 6 hours with web, irc, mail, ssh, and office open. lighter and thinner yet Eve hasn't made the CPU or GPU go above 80C yet for me the fans are still conservative in ramping up (2600 RPM when the CPU and GPU are at 80C) new power plug (it's sideways) overall it isn't significantly more awesome than the c2d's of the previous mbp revisions.
Gawh! This is what I was worried about. http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/21/macbook-pros-with-nvidia-geforce-gt-330m-silicon-making-question/ I still prefer the 2009 MBP solution over this. If they had it so you did not have to logout to change between the card it would be perfect. What card you want to use should be left up to the choice of the user.
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Ellamar
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Argo Pyxis
Second: The automatic graphics chip switching works as advertised and can be managed via the Energy Saver prefpane (ie; keep it on automatic or always pegged to the nvidia 330M) /AP
According to this user, at least the 330M Mode can be forced, as far as I understand..
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Fin Bayrunner
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:53:00 -
[21]
OK further tests today replicate my artifacting problem that continues to the mac desktop when I quit the client.
It happened again when I was scanning, I reboot and it is fine again which doesn't suggest a heat issue to me as I have allowed zero time for cool down.
This is on the 13inch 2010 macbook pro with the 256mb of shared graphics memory.
Do you think this is a client issue rather than a problem with my new macbook pro? Other games seem to run fine as I mentioned in my thread about calling applecare today and the temperature wasnt above 83 when the artifacting started
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