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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.04.16 04:43:00 -
[61]
Why, WHY do you all wish to see the end of ship-spinning? |
Catheryn Martobi
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Posted - 2010.04.16 05:12:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
How about we fix the Fleet Finder induced lag? How about we revamp the UI? How about we fix rockets? How about we fix Blasters? How about we rewrite the ****ty code that controls drones? How about we fix ships that no one flies because they aren't balanced for... well anything?
Booooring. I'm pretty sure the graphics designers working on Incarna aren't the same people who fix bugs. Also, everything in this list is hotfix crap. If everything you mentioned was the complete list in a bi-annual update, I would be ****ed.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.04.16 05:13:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Super Whopper on 16/04/2010 05:13:51
Originally by: Cozmik R5 Threads about Duke Nukem Forever... oh sorry, Incarna, should be instantly locked.
I firmly believe Incarna will be released either moments before or long after Duke Nukem Forever's been released.
LOLIncarna threads are stupid. Incarna was announced SIX years ago. You read that? SIX years ago and you nubs still whine about it when it gets continuously delayed. Incarna is vapourware and an illusion. CCP have no intentions of releasing it until WoD is ready and even then it's dubious. It might not even be compatible with the current EVE code and CCP might need to totally rewrite EVE just to run Incarna.
I, personally, hope they do that one day. EVE would be glorious and magnificent, finally making use of SM5 and the sheer beauty of DX10/11. You don't want to upgrade your pre-historic PC? Go play Farmville.
Edit: page three's been sniped.
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Dramund
Sodom Eye Systems
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Posted - 2010.04.16 05:41:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Allllll of those changes were something that, while I didn't necessarily agree with how they were implemented, at least added something to the game that effects the way we play it. All the barbie dress up patch will add is the ability to walk around inside a station and go "ooooh you're dress has so much more lace on it than mine!".
Sounds like you're upset about an expansion that affects the way we play the game, since you are worried it will divert the gameplay to "looking at pretty dresses." That is a reasonable worry, of course, if CCP didn't say over and over again that they understand completely that if Incarna were a graphical showcase, it would be a waste of everyone's time, that is to say, everyone would walk in a station, say "Ooo pretty," and never come back. CCP has been mindful of that since day one.
Incarna has also been in development for over half of a decade. CCP isn't going to trash that blood and sweat because of a handful of rageposts from people who are worried that Eve will turn into a giant game full of people /dancing on top of mailboxes in their underwear. Maybe it will amount to that, maybe it won't, but that doesn't change the fact that Incarna is coming. Grow up. Deal with it.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.04.16 06:11:00 -
[65]
Do any of you know how long it takes to make an online game like this? It takes years!
Do anyone know what incarna will be like for EVE? Yes! Like a new online game! Everything what that expansion will bring will be new to this game! Everything! The game motor. The graphics: the interior and he characers itself. The items available which includes items in the rooms and items wearable and equippable.. Everything in the game have to be produced! Even new sounds have to be produced, althogh I guess here some of the exsising might be usable too.
3-4 years is for that not too long time. Not when you want to do it properly!! And thankfully CCP is not SOE!
I very much wants the expansion too! But at least I have the patience to wait for it! The schedule have always been tentative and so far set to end of 2010. We will wait and see. But I would prefer CCP taking their time than to release an unfinished product which stinks!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.04.16 06:14:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Do any of you know how long it takes to make an online game like this? It takes years!
Do anyone know what incarna will be like for EVE? Yes! Like a new online game! Everything what that expansion will bring will be new to this game! Everything! The game motor. The graphics: the interior and he characers itself. The items available which includes items in the rooms and items wearable and equippable.. Everything in the game have to be produced! Even new sounds have to be produced, althogh I guess here some of the exsising might be usable too.
3-4 years is for that not too long time. Not when you want to do it properly!! And thankfully CCP is not SOE!
I very much wants the expansion too! But at least I have the patience to wait for it! The schedule have always been tentative and so far set to end of 2010. We will wait and see. But I would prefer CCP taking their time than to release an unfinished product which stinks!
And how long do you think they've been working in this? They have been working on this for years but if Incarna brings a new engine and, basically, an entirely new game then they can delay it for another while. I want superb graphics, like EVE was when it was first released.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.04.16 06:23:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 16/04/2010 06:23:19
Originally by: Super Whopper And how long do you think they've been working in this?
If I remember correct, it was announced at the fanfest in November 2006 or so, which I attended.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.16 06:48:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 16/04/2010 06:49:58
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Originally by: NightmareX First of all, the Incarna team can't fix Blasters, Lag, Drone UI, Rockets or the other things. You must be new here that haven't got that yet.
There's an entire TEAM dedicated to playing dress up barbie, but not an entire team devoted to reducing lag in a game that regularly has 30,000 concurrent players and insists on being a single shard? Amazing.
They do have an anti-lag team. Possibly several.
Are you sure you're not new here?
EDIT: In case it confuses you - having one team with game designers and graphics people and another team with server engineers and virtual world managers is not mutually exclusive. -----
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Dracon Blackclaw
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Posted - 2010.04.16 06:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lord Helghast March 2011 Please say it isnt so !
Rage quits now...
wait, nm. I really don't care if it takes CCP another 6 years to make the expansion. I just want it to run, and run extremely well, though an avatar upgrade in the mean time would be nice.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.04.16 07:09:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 16/04/2010 07:10:35
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
How about we fix the Fleet Finder induced lag? How about we revamp the UI? How about we fix rockets? How about we fix Blasters? How about we rewrite the ****ty code that controls drones? How about we fix ships that no one flies because they aren't balanced for... well anything?
Booooring. I'm pretty sure the graphics designers working on Incarna aren't the same people who fix bugs. Also, everything in this list is hotfix crap. If everything you mentioned was the complete list in a bi-annual update, I would be ****ed.
I also thought the developers and designers working on Incarna had nothing to do with preparing fanfast but apparently moving fanfest to next year will help focussing on Incarna.
So maybe it's the same with bugs in EVE. Maybe not developing 3 (or more) different projects would help focusing on bugfixing EVE.
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Veronica Damask
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Posted - 2010.04.16 07:18:00 -
[71]
No no no... It means that the next expansion after Tyrannis is Incarna, that's why they are skipping the 2010 fanfest so they can focus on the Incarna to be released in next December.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.16 07:38:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/04/2010 07:39:51
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne There have been half a dozen new ships introduced; Tier 2 BCs, Tier 3 Battleships, Heavy Interdictors, Covert Ops Battleships, Marauders, Navy Cruisers, Navy Battleships, Titans, Motherships and T3 ships. There has been an entirely new region of space added to the game.
None of these effected how I played the game. Obviously they were a waste of development time.
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne All the barbie dress up patch will add is the ability to walk around inside a station and go "ooooh you're dress has so much more lace on it than mine!".
All fixing lag will do is let us fly around and go "oooooh your fleet is so much bigger than mine".
Originally by: Ban Doga So maybe it's the same with bugs in EVE. Maybe not developing 3 (or more) different projects would help focusing on bugfixing EVE.
Yes. Because if a developer is able to write up presentations of and prepare demonstrations of code they have been working on for years, of course they are just as able to hop teams and futz around with code they know nothing about. What could possibly go wrong? -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:04:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/04/2010 07:39:51
Originally by: Ban Doga So maybe it's the same with bugs in EVE. Maybe not developing 3 (or more) different projects would help focusing on bugfixing EVE.
Yes. Because if a developer is able to write up presentations of and prepare demonstrations of code they have been working on for years, of course they are just as able to hop teams and futz around with code they know nothing about. What could possibly go wrong?
That's a bit of a narrow view. Applying your logic no one could ever join an existing project or move to another team or even another company. People switching teams and projects within their company happens every day.
Don't be so naive to think EVE is so unique and different that only someone who has worked on it for years can contribute. Or do you think CCP started that project with all the people working on it now??
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ban Doga That's a bit of a narrow view. Applying your logic no one could ever join an existing project or move to another team or even another company. People switching teams and projects within their company happens every day.
Yes, but it's hardly the same thing as allocating some time to make a demo of your existing work.
And don't be so naive as to think that the way to make software development go faster is to dump a bunch of unfamiliar programmers into the team. -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Daenosa
Pineal Squeegee
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:13:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Elsa Nietzsche some of us don't care about incarna as it will do nothing to better the game as we play it today.
and i bet you haven't got a clue what incarna is going to bring to eve. Its alot more than just walking in stations, go read a dev blog or 2 and then come back.
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:21:00 -
[76]
This is one of those threads that makes me want to shout at people.
Folks - what it SAID is "This will give use time free to work on Incarna so we can release it on schedule."
The whole thread's stemming from the OP misinterpreting the blog.
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Armoured C
Gallente Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:23:00 -
[77]
incarna couldn't have slipped back when there was no realese date to tie it down.
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Chlovis Tran
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:25:00 -
[78]
Even that my native language is not english, I can understand that they postpone fanfest to have free time for Incarna. And as they said, if it will be ready it will rock. :D
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:25:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Ban Doga That's a bit of a narrow view. Applying your logic no one could ever join an existing project or move to another team or even another company. People switching teams and projects within their company happens every day.
Yes, but it's hardly the same thing as allocating some time to make a demo of your existing work.
And don't be so naive as to think that the way to make software development go faster is to dump a bunch of unfamiliar programmers into the team.
I never said it's the same and I never said it would make development faster.
To quote myself:
Originally by: Ban Doga
Maybe not developing 3 (or more) different projects would help focusing on bugfixing EVE.
So you're really only telling that your assumptions about what I mean are making little sense.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.16 08:30:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Ban Doga I never said it's the same and I never said it would make development faster.
Originally by: Ban Doga I also thought the developers and designers working on Incarna had nothing to do with preparing fanfast but apparently moving fanfest to next year will help focussing on Incarna.
So maybe it's the same with bugs in EVE.
And I'd love to know what 'focusing' means if not getting the job done faster. -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.04.16 09:11:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Crumplecorn And I'd love to know what 'focusing' means if not getting the job done faster.
Getting it done better, I'd say. Focused developer, best developer. - Paknac Queltel
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.16 09:17:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Paknac Queltel Getting it done better, I'd say. Focused developer, best developer.
True that. Though switching people between teams won't achieve that kind of focus either. -
Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.04.16 09:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Paknac Queltel Getting it done better, I'd say. Focused developer, best developer.
True that. Though switching people between teams won't achieve that kind of focus either.
Ugh, don't I know it... I've been on like 4 different projects in the last month. Mostly at the same time, even.
But yes, the programmer you use to write something like Incarna is not necessarily the one you want to put on a bug hunt squad, and vice versa. A quick look at the EVE interface will confirm this. - Paknac Queltel
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NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.16 09:42:00 -
[84]
Edited by: NightmareX on 16/04/2010 09:43:28
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Originally by: NightmareX First of all, the Incarna team can't fix Blasters, Lag, Drone UI, Rockets or the other things. You must be new here that haven't got that yet.
There's an entire TEAM dedicated to playing dress up barbie, but not an entire team devoted to reducing lag in a game that regularly has 30,000 concurrent players and insists on being a single shard? Amazing.
Originally by: NightmareX And there are peoples here that want to see EVE develop rather than just being all about same **** over and over and over and over, because if there is no changes in EVE, it gets REALLY REALLY boring and peoples just leave the game. I'm kinda amazed that you don't see this either. Because it's pretty known in MMO games that the MMO games needs to be changed from time to time.
I'd have to say that YOU are the new person here, because in the six years I have been playing there have been dozens of content upgrades that were extremely beneficial to the game.
There have been half a dozen new ships introduced; Tier 2 BCs, Tier 3 Battleships, Heavy Interdictors, Covert Ops Battleships, Marauders, Navy Cruisers, Navy Battleships, Titans, Motherships and T3 ships. There has been an entirely new region of space added to the game. Wormholes were added which gave the game another several thousand solar systems to explore and fight in. Invention was introduced so now anyone can make T2 products if they wish. PVP has been entirely revamped at least twice, with the latest change being the Need for Speed nerf.....
Allllll of those changes were something that, while I didn't necessarily agree with how they were implemented, at least added something to the game that effects the way we play it. All the barbie dress up patch will add is the ability to walk around inside a station and go "ooooh you're dress has so much more lace on it than mine!".
Originally by: NightmareX Me personally thinks that a space game is not a real space game before we can walk in stations, because when you can dock in stations, then why can't we walk in the stations to?.
I can quote literally half a dozen space based video games that sold thousands of copies... and where you never got to walk around inside of a station. Homeworld, Homeworld 2, Starcraft, Sins of a Solar Empire, Pretty much the entire Wing Commander series, X-wing, Tie Fighter... that's just off the top of my head.
So maybe you'd like to revise your bull**** statement about a space game not being a good space game until you can walk around and show off your pretty dresses?
1. Your pretty dumb if you think there is no team to fix the lag. Another way to show that you don't know much about how EVE works. I can tell you right now, as things are with EVE, then fixing lag is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE task. It's a very hard task to get done.
2. I'm not a new player, sorry, but if early March 2004 is a new player to you, then you fail. And by what you say, you think EVE is all about ships and pew pew lol. Nice going there pal. Getting more and more ships wont add much to the game tbh. It will just be the same over and over here to. The same **** over and over it but with some new ships.
You just have to get it into your head that space is more about than just ships and pew pew.
3. Yes those are space games, but they aren't the same game as EVE. Homeworld and Homeworld 2, StarCraft and Sins of a Solar Empire is strategy games. EVE is a real time space game that should be a complete package with all of the things you can imagine about in space.
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Chaeryl
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Posted - 2010.04.16 09:54:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Elsa Nietzsche some of us don't care about incarna as it will do nothing to better the game as we play it today.
How kind of you let the rest of us know. You can **** off now.
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.16 10:08:00 -
[86]
I, for one, am looking forward to stretch my virtual legs this year.
I'm also quite curious how the various bloodlines will look like.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.04.16 10:14:00 -
[87]
I would bet that we won't see it before 2012 IF AT ALL (do you remember the DX10 client that was announced 2006?)
You can be pretty sure that they are currently busy on Dust and likely won't even come to full speed on incarna until after dust is released. _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.04.16 10:16:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Amida Ta I would bet that we won't see it before 2012 IF AT ALL (do you remember the DX10 client that was announced 2006?)
You can be pretty sure that they are currently busy on Dust and likely won't even come to full speed on incarna until after dust is released.
You can be pretty sure that DUST and Incarna are developed by different teams.
After all, if there was noone to work on Incarna, who the hell is working on Tyrannis now? - Paknac Queltel
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.04.16 11:40:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Paknac Queltel Getting it done better, I'd say. Focused developer, best developer.
True that. Though switching people between teams won't achieve that kind of focus either.
Yes, getting it done better is one of these options. Getting done more is another (boiling 1 4-minute egg takes the same time as boiling 5 yadayadayada).
About the focus. Well it will probably not increase the focus of the individual persons but the focus of the team.
Bugfixing is really a simple process, tho often it's not easy. It works something like this:
1) Find out what's actually happening (A) 2) Determine what should be happening instead (B) 3) Find the best solution that will get you from A to B "Best" can mean different things, depending on the situation: - fast - a solution that can be up and working as soon as possible (hotfix)
- localized - modifying the least amount of existing concepts / code to prevent unwanted side-effects (don't break even more)
- easy - requiring the least amount of effort (everyone is moaning under the workload already)
- simple - requiring the least amount of knowledge / effort (basically increasing the list of people who can implement it)
- proper - having the lowest probability of needing future adjustments, avoiding anything what would require a FIXME, HACK or TODO comment
- other stuff or any combination of these
4) implement the solution 5) verify you arrived at B, if not: back to 1)
You really only modify code in step 4. So I don't know why "writing code" comes up so fast as an argument.
Most developers - even when they have no experience with the project - will be able to perform step 1) and 5) and can usually assist in step 3) and 4).
Software is really created in the head of someone or (even better) when two or more people talk about it and draw stuff on a flipchart or whiteboard. Writing code is merely one of the last steps. It's important, of course, a badly implemented concept can ruin the whole product. But a perfectly implemented bad concept is still a bad concept and errors in the concept are much harder to correct than errors in the implementation.
Just look at all the solutions that were introduced for "balancing / bugfixing": You get told you cannot schedule another S&I job after you made all settings, even tho it's not the settings that prevent another job. Or how often you have an irreversable negative action ("Trash", "Repackage", "Report ISK Seller") right next to a positive action ("Make Active", "Form Fleet", "Deliver Courier Package").
That has nothing to do with someone's ability to write code. Only with someone's ability to think how a feature is going to be used and what people really do. Having more people, especially people who are not buried under loads of "change this code", can really do a lot of good with that conceptual part and that's the "better" I had in mind.
And back to the "that's not the same".
You were quoting a sentence from me that I said before you started telling me
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Yes, but it's hardly the same thing as allocating some time to make a demo of your existing work.
And I was referring to that "same".
Of course not making someone suspend their work to prepare a presentation is not the same as putting someone into different project.
It's the same in terms of focusing efforts into achieving a certain goal, which was what I meant with the sentence you quoted.
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Io Callisto
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Posted - 2010.04.16 11:59:00 -
[90]
Who cares when it's released.
We've got a great game already. Be thankful it's NOT like the "new vision" for the American space program -- mostly CANCELLED, replaced with vague promises, going nowhere, doing nothing.
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