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Cpt Dayn
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:31:00 -
[1]
I was about to start cross training for a tengu, but then it hit me.. Mabey i could use a Vindicator or a Kronos. that way i dont have to cross train..
So how does theese two ships do in level 4's? Or should i just give it 50days and train for a tengu? :P
Cheers,
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MWDrive
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:39:00 -
[2]
kronos is the worst marauder... and vindi isnt any better since hybrids are the problem...
so go for tengu... or better go for golem... shouldn take much longer and you cant get much better than golem for lvl4.... |
Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:47:00 -
[3]
Originally by: MWDrive kronos is the worst marauder... and vindi isnt any better since hybrids are the problem...
so go for tengu... or better go for golem... shouldn take much longer and you cant get much better than golem for lvl4....
I'd go for a Vargur if you're mainly Gunnery focused, that thing is amazing
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:50:00 -
[4]
vindicator can do a good 1000 dps with rails (no faction ammo) + drones in the 0-40km zone. can the tengu do it? |
Nahir
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:11:00 -
[5]
Ive flown a Kronos and it does allright with a decent fit. it might be the worst of the maurauders, but its still ALOT faster then standard dominixes or any other T1 bs. + you can salvage/loot on the fly.
If you want the fastest mission runner go for a Machariel. (faster then any other subcap ship) If you want the highest isk/h possible go for a Golem or a Vargur.
But if you gona be stubbern and only chose between Kronos or a Vindy, id go with a kronos easely.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:38:00 -
[6]
You can shieldtank a Vindi with mission specific hardeners and fit a ton of damage mods and tracking enhancers in the lows. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
NoNah
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Posted - 2010.04.21 21:40:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn You can shieldtank a Vindi with mission specific hardeners and fit a ton of damage mods and tracking enhancers in the lows.
The idea is intriguing. As always.
[Vindicator, New Setup 3] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Garde II x5
The verdict is a slow ship, with less damage output, worse tracking issues, higher cost and all in all much worse performance than any marauder. In fact it still doesn't outperform a domi. Kronos of course still being the worst of the lot, barely keeping up due to loot, as salvage has gone from bad to worse. And loot will join it starting tyrranis. Hoorah for domi! Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 353959
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macca37
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Posted - 2010.04.22 01:12:00 -
[8]
i fly the kronos on lvl 4 missions and works perfectly well dont really understand why ppl say such bad things about it, might not be the best but gets through missions faster than my navy raven
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2010.04.22 02:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 22/04/2010 02:32:02
Originally by: 1600 RT vindicator can do a good 1000 dps with rails (no faction ammo) + drones in the 0-40km zone. can the tengu do it?
Well... yes tbh.
926 dps anyway, which is so close as it makes no odds. However, as anyone who has used HAMS or indeed anything short ranged in missions for any length of time will tell you, less damage at FAR longer range is a LOT better.
A little speedy EFT warrioring says the best you can get from a vindi with 4 navy damage mods is 932 without faction ammo (253 of which is drones which take FOREVER to actually apply their damage), because you shouldn't be allowed out into the big confusing world by yourself if you take 5 heavies instead of 4 heavies and 5 lights. SO tbh... not a great arguament against the tengu. The vindi is miles better, just not for that reason.
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2010.04.22 06:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 22/04/2010 02:32:02
926 dps anyway, which is so close as it makes no odds. However, as anyone who has used HAMS or indeed anything short ranged in missions for any length of time will tell you, less damage at FAR longer range is a LOT better.
Which is weird because rails still suck.
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Tyfuz
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Posted - 2010.04.22 07:08:00 -
[11]
I would train for Kronos. If history repeat itself there will be a patch that makes hybrids in line with the rest. Make sure to train drones so you can use Ishtar also or some other ship. If you choose not to train Kronos i would recommend Vargur, fantastic ship! Then you will stick to guns. To train missiles takes to much time if you already have a focus on guns. Good luck!
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.22 11:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: 1600 RT vindicator can do a good 1000 dps with rails (no faction ammo) + drones in the 0-40km zone. can the tengu do it?
It's not even cap stable without any repper running, tanking is going to be crap with those amounts of magstabs. So while yeah you get 1k dps it's not actually any good.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2010.04.22 11:21:00 -
[13]
if you concerned about maximum isk per hour they yea kronos comes up short. but if your gal trained armor tanking hybrid damage, then it s fine ship even if it is not the pure fastest to pop npcs. lack of damage types hurts any hybrid ship.
but any marauder is best for missioning period, you got a decent sized cargo hold for grabbing up loot, you got 3 free high slots for tractors/salvage, and you got 8 guns worth of dps with the damage bonus.
t3 are fun for a bit and can do level 4s just fine, but you have no room to snag them bs loots that can sell for a decent amount, and your going to go thru ammo like candy because of your small guns. depending on your sub fit you can fit a salvager and a tractor and they move fast as anything for zipping around and speed tank and will chew small ships up like a rabid pit bull.
but zip around no loot constant orbit this orbit that, or a marauder you can park and shoot, tractor, salvage and cash in.
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mlove
Gallente Death's Crimson Cross. A.k.u
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Posted - 2010.04.24 19:20:00 -
[14]
Am i wrong or does the Vindi have a bigger damage bonus, plus a bigger drone bay than the Kronos?
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari Mine 'N' Refine The Unforgiven Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.25 00:42:00 -
[15]
For me the Vindi has its uses. Since I use two account to mission it works out well. My alt has nearly perfect t2 gunnery skills. I fly my main in with a Nighthawk and park. Then in comes the vindi set up full gank with a gtfo tank. All melts before it in short order. It's a fun novelty.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.04.25 09:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nito Musashi if you concerned about maximum isk per hour they yea kronos comes up short. but if your gal trained armor tanking hybrid damage, then it s fine ship even if it is not the pure fastest to pop npcs. lack of damage types hurts any hybrid ship.
but any marauder is best for missioning period, you got a decent sized cargo hold for grabbing up loot, you got 3 free high slots for tractors/salvage, and you got 8 guns worth of dps with the damage bonus.
t3 are fun for a bit and can do level 4s just fine, but you have no room to snag them bs loots that can sell for a decent amount, and your going to go thru ammo like candy because of your small guns. depending on your sub fit you can fit a salvager and a tractor and they move fast as anything for zipping around and speed tank and will chew small ships up like a rabid pit bull.
but zip around no loot constant orbit this orbit that, or a marauder you can park and shoot, tractor, salvage and cash in.
Is this your general feel for things, or do you have empirical/theoretical data to support it?
Looking at how missions used to work, and still seem to, the majority of the income is in fact from the missionrewards - mainly the LP. With Tyrannis this will be even more painfully obvious. This would mean applied damage is way much more important than the ability to salvage and with a good agent, also loot.
This has meant that the domi is alot better than the kronos, for isk per hour - and probably will be even more so up ahead.
Suggesting that if you have the perfect skills for it, it still sort of makes sense, kind of, to maybe use for some one application. This sort of answers the part about having the exact right skills for this ship, but nothing else as that applies to ANY ship in the whole game. If you have perfect skills for an ishkur, but can't fly a vexor, then that is the best level 4 mission runner there is. If you have optimal skills for a kestrel.. guess what.. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 756386
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.25 09:24:00 -
[17]
I have both a Kronos and a Golem and the Golem burns through stuff twice as fast. Hybrids are really weak compared to launchers.
It is always good to train for two races, so you aren't rendered obsolete by the ups and downs of nerfs and buffs. ---
Now running for CSM5. Campaign focus available here |
Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.04.25 23:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Arthur Frayn You can shieldtank a Vindi with mission specific hardeners and fit a ton of damage mods and tracking enhancers in the lows.
The idea is intriguing. As always.
[Vindicator, New Setup 3] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Garde II x5
The verdict is a slow ship, with less damage output, worse tracking issues, higher cost and all in all much worse performance than any marauder. In fact it still doesn't outperform a domi. Kronos of course still being the worst of the lot, barely keeping up due to loot, as salvage has gone from bad to worse. And loot will join it starting tyrranis. Hoorah for domi!
I call shenanigans on this post. I did a bit of EFT whoring and found that a rail shield vindi to put out ~1200DPS with my skills and implants, using tech II rails and faction damage mods. |
NoNah
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Posted - 2010.04.26 00:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cambarus I call shenanigans on this post. I did a bit of EFT whoring and found that a rail shield vindi to put out ~1200DPS with my skills and implants, using tech II rails and faction damage mods.
Ok. And what does your domi do?
With a comparably priced setup, my eft domi does around 1046 dps. The vindicator does 1076. 495 of those 1046 comes from sentries. Sentries are "immune" to Ewar and have better tracking than the rails. Will those extra 200 constant dps compensate for the lost 30? I dare say so, but then again I'll have to admit I've never tried to fly a shieldtanked vindi for missions.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 613518
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Belsazzar
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Posted - 2010.04.26 08:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I have both a Kronos and a Golem and the Golem burns through stuff twice as fast. Hybrids are really weak compared to launchers.
It is always good to train for two races, so you aren't rendered obsolete by the ups and downs of nerfs and buffs.
Thats just bull. What setups are you using, sounds like your kronos setup sux. Get decent gunnery and try
4x t2 425
1x cap booster 3x serpentis tracking/optimal script (awesome optimal range and tracking)
3x fed magstab res and 1 lar best you can afford.
Will 1 or 2 volley any cruiser and 2-4 volley bs. frigs pop till about 20 km (cant remember exactly how close you can pop them, been a while)
Missions take about 10 minutes
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.26 08:22:00 -
[21]
None of them. Just get a Tach Paladin. You don't even need a tank. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2010.04.27 00:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Nito Musashi if you concerned about maximum isk per hour they yea kronos comes up short. but if your gal trained armor tanking hybrid damage, then it s fine ship even if it is not the pure fastest to pop npcs. lack of damage types hurts any hybrid ship.
but any marauder is best for missioning period, you got a decent sized cargo hold for grabbing up loot, you got 3 free high slots for tractors/salvage, and you got 8 guns worth of dps with the damage bonus.
t3 are fun for a bit and can do level 4s just fine, but you have no room to snag them bs loots that can sell for a decent amount, and your going to go thru ammo like candy because of your small guns. depending on your sub fit you can fit a salvager and a tractor and they move fast as anything for zipping around and speed tank and will chew small ships up like a rabid pit bull.
but zip around no loot constant orbit this orbit that, or a marauder you can park and shoot, tractor, salvage and cash in.
Is this your general feel for things, or do you have empirical/theoretical data to support it?
Looking at how missions used to work, and still seem to, the majority of the income is in fact from the missionrewards - mainly the LP. With Tyrannis this will be even more painfully obvious. This would mean applied damage is way much more important than the ability to salvage and with a good agent, also loot.
This has meant that the domi is alot better than the kronos, for isk per hour - and probably will be even more so up ahead.
Suggesting that if you have the perfect skills for it, it still sort of makes sense, kind of, to maybe use for some one application. This sort of answers the part about having the exact right skills for this ship, but nothing else as that applies to ANY ship in the whole game. If you have perfect skills for an ishkur, but can't fly a vexor, then that is the best level 4 mission runner there is. If you have optimal skills for a kestrel.. guess what..
i do have maxed marauders skills and hybrid skills etc.
but i can shoot, tractor salvage, grab up bs loot while i kill. most missions it only takes me a tad longer to salvage than straight up kill stuff. granted i have maxed out salvage skills and marauder/bs related skills. but still i can load up damage specific drones, put drone mods in my free highs if i want and could probably kill faster than any domi with guns + drones dps working for me.
granted i am not a spreadsheet player. i do not sit down and do the math but after a week or two of mission running plus looted large guns plus salvage, plus afterburners and hardners and whatever else stuff i manage to snag while doing my thing is it s a good pile of isk running stuff to the local trade hub or reprocessing it down into minerals.
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