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Vyl Vit	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:07:00 - [1] The Dynamics of Cogent Game Design (Or how not to be the object of ridicule) There you are, having worked for weeks (months!) to earn standings enough to mission for a high-quality agent. You've studied the star map to find a location. You've faithfully executed a series of lower-level missions for hours on end just to earn the right to begin missions of gravity and import. You've worked hard to earn the ISK to obtain a ship worthy of the task. You've spent weeks ôstudyingö to acquire the skills needed. You've sharpened your abilities to not only survive the mission but to actually accomplish it. You request the mission, and endure the high-handed personal guff of the agent who obstensively doubts your abilities, but who reluctantly gives you the mission anyway, as though giving away part of the faction treasury. You pilot your ship to the mission site, access the acceleration gate, and what do you find has followed you in? A two-month player in a Probe with two salvagers who begins salvaging your mission. What can you do about it? Nothing. You have no recourse but to sit and watch as this person takes away the better part of the value of the mission you had to earn your way into. You have to watch as salvage items needed to manufacture the products you'd hoped to market are blithely slipped into this loathesome person's cargo hold. This player wasn't given access to the mission site by any agent he had to earn standings with. He risks nothing. He invests nothing, but he has free access to a mission site you had to invest time and effort to obtain. But, I don't blame that player. No. When I see this happen time and again my thoughts immediately turn to the game design û and therefore the designers. Not only is this unfair and unjust to the player whose mission it is. It is also a huge hole in EVE that makes the game designers objects of ridicule for having left such a glaring contradiction in dynamics, and it makes the entire process of ôstandingsö with an agent farcical. No cogent intelligent system contradicts itself or opens itself up to ridicule. This, my friends, is ridiculous. However, it's so easily remedied one has to marvel at what the developers intentions must be. These can't be to create a gaming environment that sets a standard on the scale of - say û a game like chess, where the game is so tightly designed there are no points of imbalance or farce. All one need do is make all missions accessible through acceleration gates only the holder of the mission and those fleeted with that player can access. It's not even difficult in terms of coding. Can't the developers see how preposterous it is, and how foolish they look when you are in a ôprivateö instance and see there with you some ôpirateö who's followed you in? It's like buying a bucket, taking it home, filling it with water and finding it leaks. Have they no sense of craftsmanship? Not only are computer games creations of programming language using the marvels of micro-electronics. They also must be judged in terms of what a ôgood gameö is in the traditional sense. A good game is tight, cogent and without loopholes allowing players to circumvent the dynamics of the game. Here, EVE fails. The solution is so simple, one can only hope the digital-aristocratic enclave of designers at CCP put a fledgling programmer to work rectifying this leak in their bucket. It's beginning to be difficult to mumble apologies to new players for what is obviously a fundamental flaw in someone's thinking that draws the integrity and quality of the game into question. ôConvert your trial account into a paying one. This doesn't happen that often!ö Uh huh. By the way, this isn't offered as a suggestion. It's a demand from a paying customer. Show me you know how to do your job. Tighten this up, or understand the loss of respect you've earned.
Lee Dalton RUSSIAN PRIDE POWER HONOUR JUSTICE Perihelion Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:10:00 - [2] Reading GD is like watching reruns of your favourite trolls. *** I AM A RUS HON SUPERSTAR
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:10:00 - [3] 1/10 0/10 for theme, but +1 for all dem big words.
Nelindor1 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:13:00 - [4] definately NOT reading that. But, reading the Title, i assume it is an emo rant about ninja looters and salvagers.. "Ninja-looting" and "Ninja Salvaging" are 2 "jobs" or "occupations" in eve just like missions, trading, pvp, mining, etc. Don't like it? go mission in a system less popular or don't mission.
Tobias Xiaosen Total Xenophobia Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:16:00 - [5] Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:25:55 Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:18:37 Originally by: vile zit BLAHBLAHBALH YOU! SHADDUP! Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ~ CURRENT INTERNETS = + 129102
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:18:00 - [6] Reading from bottom to top can save time. Quote: It's a demand from a paying customer. Show me you know how to do your job. Tighten this up, or understand the loss of respect you've earned. Pretty bad troll. Or pretty dumb person.
jona1	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:20:00 - [7] Prob a ninja alt trying to look important making another thread/trollin on such a fail subject,if not well then OP grow a pair or look for a new game.
Nelindor1 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:18:37 Originally by: vyl vit BLAHBLAHBALH YOU! SHADDUP! Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) This.
Crazy Cop	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:25:00 - [9] Damn, do i wish to ninja salvage this guy.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:25:55 Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:18:37 Originally by: vile zit BLAHBLAHBALH YOU! SHADDUP! Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) THIS renders all answers superfluous, including mine (kinda recursive) To say it differently, /thread ________________________ Store \| Apply

Orion Cor Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:52:00 - [11] Solution to Ninja-Salvaging: carry both a tractor and a salvager on your mission ship and clean up after yourself. Solution to Ninja-Looting: bring a corpmate to take advantage of the 15-minute aggro the looter earns. ______________________________ "Irpom ignopom ifosis." ~Me, 1992
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Nika Dekaia RPretty bad troll. Or pretty dumb person. It is quite outstanding troll Used a lot of big words and even managed to avoid a wall of text.
Arabeth	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:54:00 - [13] Low sec. 'nuff said.
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:06:00 - [14] Fight back. I love ninja's. The only problem is I can't get them to show up in my missions. I even use to sit in a mission with the MWD on a Proteus up and running so I had a 960 Sig Radius and still no ninja's. It made me cry, no love, no kills. Ok, sure your complaining about people salvaging and not looters. Still, let it go. As some people have posted above me CCP has stated that they want anyone to be able to salvage. If you don't want people salvaging "your" wreaks you have 5 choices. 1) Get a second account had have it follow you around salvaging. 2) Fly a Marauder and salvage as you go. 3) Fly a T3 ship set up to so it can not be probed out, if they can't scan your ship they can't get to your site and salvage. 4) Move to another agent that is not in a major Mission Hub. The the system where I have been running missions for for the past 2.5 years is not a mission hub. I have never been scanned down by anyone running missions there. 5) Let it go. There are still a few more things you can do but these are the simplest choices. You have to remember just because you feel there is a problem does not mean there is a problem. Pick from an option above and move on. My CSM Election Announcement
Dennmoth Ferdier	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:06:00 - [15] As one of the few ppl that actually bothered to read the OP through, I'll comment that you make it sound like it was a bug, a glitch, an exploit or an oversight of a game mechanic, while in fact it has been very much intentionally coded to do exactly what you're petitioning against. The fact that you want eve to become more like Hello Kitty online, doesnt mean we all want it to be so, and that included the developers who exactly combat your train of thought. If this does not convince you, take a moment to read the quotes few posts above me detailing the developement team statements on the matter. ------ Dare to challenge me?
Lexx Khadar Minmatar HellForge. Lucky Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:08:00 - [16] Bad trolling OP. I like to shoot the wrecks when a ninja salvager enters my missions. As a paying customer you have no right to make demands like this. You have very little rights if you read the EULA.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:34:00 - [17] 10/10 for effort. Your attempt to be subtle by making ninja salvagers look like a game design flaw was good, but ultimately you were too focused on the whine, so you were transparent. I'd give it 2/10 on subtlety for the intention, try to work on the execution. The suggestion that missions should only be accessible to mission runners and their friends was a nice thing to slip in - had the troll been successful, no doubt this would have caused a nice little sidetrack despite being off your own topic. Remove the personal grievance aspect (try taking on the role of a ninja salvager rather than a mission runner to obscure any personal agenda), and focus less on the whine at the core - hide it good and deep behind the game design commentary. The idea is to get people to agree with you and then realise the implications to cause cognitive dissonance, not to actually argue a point (since you have none). Combining the creativity and effort with the fact that a few people felt the need to respond with dev quotes, I'll give you 5/10. - Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know!
Ai Mei	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:41:00 - [18] I dont have people steal from my missions. But I think thats because the last time someone did that they lost their vexor came back and then proceeded to lose their nice neut domini with lots of trimarks to a couple of tech 3's and a pvp fitted phoon waiting for him.
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:47:00 - [19] Interesting post, but let me add by saying: To be or not to beû that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles And, by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep No more û and by a sleep to say we end The heartache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to û ætis a consummation Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep To sleep, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub, For in that sleep of death what dreams may come, When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause. There's the respect That makes calamity of so long life. For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, ThÆ oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns That patient merit of thÆ unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovered country from whose bourn No traveler returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pitch and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action.ùSoft you now! The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remembered
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.25 01:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Vyl Vit The Dynamics of Cogent Game Design (Or how not to be the object of ridicule) There you are, having worked for weeks (months!) to earn standings enough to mission for a high-quality agent. You've studied the star map to find a location. You've faithfully executed a series of lower-level missions for hours on end just to earn the right to begin missions of gravity and import. You've worked hard to earn the ISK to obtain a ship worthy of the task. You've spent weeks ôstudyingö to acquire the skills needed. You've sharpened your abilities to not only survive the mission but to actually accomplish it. You request the mission, and endure the high-handed personal guff of the agent who obstensively doubts your abilities, but who reluctantly gives you the mission anyway, as though giving away part of the faction treasury. You pilot your ship to the mission site, access the acceleration gate, and what do you find has followed you in? A two-month player in a Probe with two salvagers who begins salvaging your mission. What can you do about it? Nothing. You have no recourse but to sit and watch as this person takes away the better part of the value of the mission you had to earn your way into. You have to watch as salvage items needed to manufacture the products you'd hoped to market are blithely slipped into this loathesome person's cargo hold. This player wasn't given access to the mission site by any agent he had to earn standings with. He risks nothing. He invests nothing, but he has free access to a mission site you had to invest time and effort to obtain. But, I don't blame that player. No. When I see this happen time and again my thoughts immediately turn to the game design û and therefore the designers. Not only is this unfair and unjust to the player whose mission it is. It is also a huge hole in EVE that makes the game designers objects of ridicule for having left such a glaring contradiction in dynamics, and it makes the entire process of ôstandingsö with an agent farcical. No cogent intelligent system contradicts itself or opens itself up to ridicule. This, my friends, is ridiculous. However, it's so easily remedied one has to marvel at what the developers intentions must be. These can't be to create a gaming environment that sets a standard on the scale of - say û a game like chess, where the game is so tightly designed there are no points of imbalance or farce. All one need do is make all missions accessible through acceleration gates only the holder of the mission and those fleeted with that player can access. It's not even difficult in terms of coding. Can't the developers see how preposterous it is, and how foolish they look when you are in a ôprivateö instance and see there with you some ôpirateö who's followed you in? It's like buying a bucket, taking it home, filling it with water and finding it leaks. Have they no sense of craftsmanship? Not only are computer games creations of programming language using the marvels of micro-electronics. They also must be judged in terms of what a ôgood gameö is in the traditional sense. A good game is tight, cogent and without loopholes allowing players to circumvent the dynamics of the game. Here, EVE fails. The solution is so simple, one can only hope the digital-aristocratic enclave of designers at CCP put a fledgling programmer to work rectifying this leak in their bucket. It's beginning to be difficult to mumble apologies to new players for what is obviously a fundamental flaw in someone's thinking that draws the integrity and quality of the game into question. ôConvert your trial account into a paying one. This doesn't happen that often!ö Uh huh. By the way, this isn't offered as a suggestion. It's a demand from a paying customer. Show me you know how to do your job. Tighten this up, or understand the loss of respect you've earned. tl;dr PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!

Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.04.25 01:40:00 - [21] Ninja salvagers are scrubs for sure, but to cry about them is even worse. To make a billionth troll post regarding them is utterly pathetic. ~_~
Tejal Charu	Posted - 2010.04.25 01:45:00 - [22] Salvaged were Original Poster's wrecks, yes. Very angry he is, hmmmmmm yesssss...
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.04.25 02:19:00 - [23] anybody actually read all the mumbo jumbo
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2010.04.25 02:31:00 - [24] Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 25/04/2010 02:32:07 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac anybody actually read all the mumbo jumbo I get as far as "to be or not to be..." then I lose interest. But as to the OP: Wrecks are like asteroids...just because you shoot it, doesn't mean you own it. I don't see what your gripe is though. Most serious manufactures that use salvaged parts buy them off the market. Most serious salvagers sell their stuff on the market instead of manufacturing for the simple reason that you need to salvage about a zillion wrecks in order to have enough of anything to manufacture something decent. There are many things I wish this game would allow, but you bought the sub as is...not as you wish it to be.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.04.25 02:51:00 - [25] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 25/04/2010 02:53:05 Did it just get dark in here......oh geez! Look at the wall of text. It blots out the sun. Dude, I sympathize with you. Can I have your stuff? No really I do sympathize but, unless you're actually willing to shoot the looters, do more than just mission then there's really no use crying about it (/me collects tears into elixir of sorrow). However, I think I understand your meaning. You're considering all ninja's "looters" hence you can't shoot some of them. Under the current game mechanics there are ninja salvagers (legal) and ninja looters (fire at will). The latter you can shoot. But if, as I suspect, you're like 90% of the missioners out there, even when you have aggro you refuse to engage the looters. As a ninja, I risk being shot by you when I steal your stuff right in front of you. And by steal I mean steal those nice juicy meta 4's not just salvage. I give missioners every opportunity to shoot me. And still most don't. When they do and I come back in a PVP fit BC or BS, they're still missioning away as if they haven't a care in the world. CCP can't fix stupid. If ninjas bother you that much then go to low and nullsec. I explored some regions of low/null sec a few weeks ago. And I can tell you, there just isn't enough traffic down there to keep me busy ninjaing. Likewise, I doubt you'll find any ninjas there except for the rare, very rare occasion. But, you'd never do that, would you? No, you don't want a ninja free mission site. They're out there but you refuse to go there. What you want is a completely isolated means to make isk, a personal isk faucet, that in no way inconveniences you.
Rogev	Posted - 2010.04.25 02:52:00 - [26] I just can't understand post after post after post of people whining about ninja salvagers. I'm a hardcore mission runner and the only time I run in to a ninja is if somehow I stray in to a mission hub. At those times I usually find they're also stealing wrecks and talking smack about me in local. What do I do about it? Nothing. I just pretend like I don't notice and go about my business. Then they usually move on to someone else (you) who's going to get bent out of shape and whine about it on the forums. If ninja salvagers are bothering you, you're doing it wrong.
Rayahammer	Posted - 2010.04.25 02:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Ashina Sito Fight back. I love ninja's. The only problem is I can't get them to show up in my missions. I even use to sit in a mission with the MWD on a Proteus up and running so I had a 960 Sig Radius and still no ninja's. It made me cry, no love, no kills. Ok, sure your complaining about people salvaging and not looters. Still, let it go. As some people have posted above me CCP has stated that they want anyone to be able to salvage. If you don't want people salvaging "your" wreaks you have 5 choices. 1) Get a second account had have it follow you around salvaging. 2) Fly a Marauder and salvage as you go. 3) Fly a T3 ship set up to so it can not be probed out, if they can't scan your ship they can't get to your site and salvage. 4) Move to another agent that is not in a major Mission Hub. The the system where I have been running missions for for the past 2.5 years is not a mission hub. I have never been scanned down by anyone running missions there. 5) Let it go. There are still a few more things you can do but these are the simplest choices. You have to remember just because you feel there is a problem does not mean there is a problem. Pick from an option above and move on. You mwd often in deadspace? Or do you just run the blockade?
Rogev	Posted - 2010.04.25 03:03:00 - [28] Edited by: Rogev on 25/04/2010 03:04:06 Originally by: Mr Kidd Edited by: Mr Kidd on 25/04/2010 02:53:05 Did it just get dark in here......oh geez! Look at the wall of text. It blots out the sun. Dude, I sympathize with you. Can I have your stuff? No really I do sympathize but, unless you're actually willing to shoot the looters, do more than just mission then there's really no use crying about it (/me collects tears into elixir of sorrow). However, I think I understand your meaning. You're considering all ninja's "looters" hence you can't shoot some of them. Under the current game mechanics there are ninja salvagers (legal) and ninja looters (fire at will). The latter you can shoot. But if, as I suspect, you're like 90% of the missioners out there, even when you have aggro you refuse to engage the looters. As a ninja, I risk being shot by you when I steal your stuff right in front of you. And by steal I mean steal those nice juicy meta 4's not just salvage. I give missioners every opportunity to shoot me. And still most don't. When they do and I come back in a PVP fit BC or BS, they're still missioning away as if they haven't a care in the world. CCP can't fix stupid. If ninjas bother you that much then go to low and nullsec. I explored some regions of low/null sec a few weeks ago. And I can tell you, there just isn't enough traffic down there to keep me busy ninjaing. Likewise, I doubt you'll find any ninjas there except for the rare, very rare occasion. But, you'd never do that, would you? No, you don't want a ninja free mission site. They're out there but you refuse to go there. What you want is a completely isolated means to make isk, a personal isk faucet, that in no way inconveniences you. Mr Kidd I think I was that guy. (The one that didn't shoot)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.04.25 03:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:25:55 Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 24/04/2010 23:18:37 Originally by: vile zit BLAHBLAHBALH YOU! SHADDUP! Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Question asked. Question answered with extreme prejudice. You can lock it now. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
Rayahammer	Posted - 2010.04.25 03:25:00 - [30] And why is it called ninja salvage if there is no risk involved at all?



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