EVE Search - Make amends for Dominion lag: Unholy Rage II

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Make amends for Dominion lag: Unholy Rage II

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.25 23:26:00 - [1] Well CCP, Dominion was supposed to be the expansion that redefined 0.0. And some good was done.... but you've also made us suffer hugely increased lag for 6 months now, with no prospect in sight of a return to Apocrypha levels of performance. How about you make it up to us in another way. A massive campaign against the macro-bots. Specifically the ones that infest every corner of 0.0, but also the lo-sec and empire ice-belt hotspots too. You know the ones I mean, dont pretend you dont. I really dont think it's that hard to analyze logs to show bot behaviour if you really try. Here's a hint: if someone's character is ratting with exactly mechanical precision for 23 hours a day, day after day, always instawarping the second anyone appears in local (loliknowrite?), then they're a bot. If someone is ice-mining 23 hours a day, in precise synchrony with multiple similarly named characters all created at the same time then they're a bot. If someone is running courier missions out of Ingunn 23 hours a day, ignoring the fact that the station is camped then they're a bot. If someone is mining veld 23 hours a day, and even keeps trying to "mine" in their pod for 8 hours after their covetor gets ganked then they're a bot. Run the analysis. flag the suspects. observe them in operation. ban the accounts. The server has been suffering lately, CCP. Let's help it out by lightening the load a little. What say you? Signed, Pheusia
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.25 23:37:00 - [2] they are also paying customers... I suspect that some very large alliance and large groups of players would suddenly vanish. CCP wants to make money. So frustrating to even go to 0.0 because macro-ratting ravens are omnipresent. One time I managed to bypass their macroing bull**** by keeping a bubble hauler cloaked in system with them constantly and then anchoring some bubbles at their pos once they set their bot to ignore the hauler dude. Caught a group of macro ravens that instantly warped to their pos when I entered local. Too bad most of them simply warp to a safe and log or cloak. I have tried and there really isn't a good way to try and catch most of them.
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 06:24:00 - [3] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto they are also paying customers... I suspect that some very large alliance and large groups of players would suddenly vanish. CCP wants to make money. So frustrating to even go to 0.0 because macro-ratting ravens are omnipresent. One time I managed to bypass their macroing bull** by keeping a bubble hauler cloaked in system with them constantly and then anchoring some bubbles at their pos once they set their bot to ignore the hauler dude. Caught a group of macro ravens that instantly warped to their pos when I entered local. Too bad most of them simply warp to a safe and log or cloak. I have tried and there really isn't a good way to try and catch most of them. So paying CCP a sub entitles them to cheat? How about a modest proposal of compromise: Half the subscription interval on botting accounts. If we're going to allow them to cheat because they pay CCP, then they should at least pay extra for the privilege. Signed, Pheusia**
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.04.26 06:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Pheusia Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto they are also paying customers... I suspect that some very large alliance and large groups of players would suddenly vanish. CCP wants to make money. So frustrating to even go to 0.0 because macro-ratting ravens are omnipresent. One time I managed to bypass their macroing bull**** by keeping a bubble hauler cloaked in system with them constantly and then anchoring some bubbles at their pos once they set their bot to ignore the hauler dude. Caught a group of macro ravens that instantly warped to their pos when I entered local. Too bad most of them simply warp to a safe and log or cloak. I have tried and there really isn't a good way to try and catch most of them. So paying CCP a sub entitles them to cheat? .... He didn't say that, he gave it as a reason they are not banned. Cynical maybe but its a valid point from his observation and others. If a human can spot them a simple server script will be able to as well. That does not mean the botters will not put random code in to try and appear human but it's a start. At the moment they do not even bother to pretend. It's a reason why minerals have hit rock bottom and the reason why, after the patch, there may well not be the recovery of prices after the meta 0 and drone drop changes have filtered through. So honest players will have been screwed for them. These cheats are affecting us all and I resent the game mechanics having to be adjusted to allow for their sad existence.
Whattis	Posted - 2010.04.26 07:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Zartrader If a human can spot them a simple server script will be able to as well. It's that easy huh? Alright, pastebin me a script in any language that will seperate every ninth uneven number in a sequence of random digits, and I'll send you two bil isk tonight. Don't bother begging everyone you know to write one for you, I was just proving a point. Go bag groceries and stop judging thousands of lines of code while incapable of forming a single coherent sentence.
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 07:51:00 - [6] Edited by: Pheusia on 26/04/2010 07:51:51 Originally by: Whattis Originally by: Zartrader If a human can spot them a simple server script will be able to as well. It's that easy huh? Alright, pastebin me a script in any language that will seperate every ninth uneven number in a sequence of random digits, and I'll send you two bil isk tonight. Don't bother begging everyone you know to write one for you, I was just proving a point. Go bag groceries and stop judging thousands of lines of code while incapable of forming a single coherent sentence. A simple server script cant be used to find and ban bots. A somewhat more complex script can be used to flag bot-like activity for further investigation. I listed several eminently script-searchable activities in my OP. Originally by: Pheusia Run the analysis. flag the suspects. observe them in operation. ban the accounts. Signed, Pheusia
Musical Fist Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.26 08:05:00 - [7] Macros tend to click the same areas or do the same commands OVER and OVER, this by default should make it easy to find them This is so not my main
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 08:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Musical Fist Macros tend to click the same areas or do the same commands OVER and OVER, this by default should make it easy to find them 1: Download Macro 2: Run Macro on test server 3: Look at resulting log pattern 4: Look for repeated pattern matches in player logs and investigate 5: BANHAMMAR! 6: Download next macro... Signed, Pheusia
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.26 08:17:00 - [9] Jump into system Drop bubbles at each belt at warp in leave system for a few min enter system and find macro repeat untill it's dead :) -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Whattis	Posted - 2010.04.26 09:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Pheusia A simple server script cant be used to find and ban bots. A somewhat more complex script can be used to flag bot-like activity for further investigation. I listed several eminently script-searchable activities in my OP. Originally by: Pheusia Run the analysis. flag the suspects. observe them in operation. ban the accounts. I agree with you. I just want the armchair expert to go away.

I SoStoned Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.26 09:11:00 - [11] Here's how you fix macros, at least in 0.0 Server picks a random name from a system in empire, then duplicates that name on a local channel in 0.0 - randomly populating them with one or more names. Or, heck, just random gobs of text. A human would be able to identify the gibberish as such, but a bot would not (hint: Eve limits player names to two discreet words - false names could then be made into three words, something perhaps difficult for botters to differentiate). Does this for every 0.0 system with one name in it, and cycles the name every few minutes/hours. Real players will be kept on their toes not knowing if the name is a false positive or not, but macros will either warp & cloak, or be programmed to ignore them, enabling people to sneak up on them legitimately. --- Dreamer: My dream, Freddy! MY RULES. Freddy Kruger: groans Awwwww, f**k. --- Never give up!
Sellmewarez	Posted - 2010.04.26 09:49:00 - [12] You sostoned you not thinking str8 bro
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.26 10:07:00 - [13] Edited by: Furb Killer on 26/04/2010 10:07:49 Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto they are also paying customers... I suspect that some very large alliance and large groups of players would suddenly vanish. CCP wants to make money. The alternative for those macros are people buying and selling plexes, ccp makes ALOT more on that then the subscription fee of some macros. Quote: names could then be made into three words, something perhaps difficult for botters to differentiate). It isnt exactly hard to read the name from local and check the number of spaces in it for a bot.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2010.04.26 10:10:00 - [14] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto they are also paying customers... I suspect that some very large alliance and large groups of players would suddenly vanish. CCP wants to make money. The pay for accounts with isk, someone else buys the GTC to sell. CCP would not lose money in the long run
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 10:11:00 - [15] Originally by: I SoStoned Here's how you fix macros, at least in 0.0 Server picks a random name from a system in empire, then duplicates that name on a local channel in 0.0 - randomly populating them with one or more names. Or, heck, just random gobs of text. A human would be able to identify the gibberish as such, but a bot would not (hint: Eve limits player names to two discreet words - false names could then be made into three words, something perhaps difficult for botters to differentiate). Does this for every 0.0 system with one name in it, and cycles the name every few minutes/hours. Real players will be kept on their toes not knowing if the name is a false positive or not, but macros will either warp & cloak, or be programmed to ignore them, enabling people to sneak up on them legitimately. In essence, what you're proposing is to make local an unreliable intel channel. It would be simpler to just add a random 1-90 second delay to appearing in local after entering a system. Signed, Pheusia
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.04.26 11:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Pheusia What say you? I say that it would just end up in a race between bot-writers and CCP. Bot-writers would try to escape CCP's automatic analysis tools by introducing some random elements or what not. CCP would need to improve their detection methods and so on. Precious resources wasted this way. No, it is much better to focus on those who profit from the bots. ISK sellers and buyers for example. Ban them! And anyway ... there is some pretty wise saying that when some gameplay rewards the use of bot that then the game design is bad. So I agree that the game design is bad and should be changed. Grinding is always stupid and pretty much waste of time, it really screams for the use of bots. Change the grind to some interesting and complex game play and you are rid of the bots and have improved your game. What would that mean for Eve? Change mining to something interesting and interactive instead of mindless grind. Change ratting and mission running to something interesting and get rid of the grind there too. A battle against the bots with automated tools, however, is doomed to fail and just a waste of resources. Change gamedesign and get rid of bots this way.
UVPhoenix2 Gallente Brotherhood of Heart and Steel Iron Heart Brotherhood	Posted - 2010.04.26 11:22:00 - [17] Originally by: I SoStoned Here's how you fix macros, at least in 0.0 Server picks a random name from a system in empire, then duplicates that name on a local channel in 0.0 - randomly populating them with one or more names. Or, heck, just random gobs of text. A human would be able to identify the gibberish as such, but a bot would not (hint: Eve limits player names to two discreet words - false names could then be made into three words, something perhaps difficult for botters to differentiate). Does this for every 0.0 system with one name in it, and cycles the name every few minutes/hours. Real players will be kept on their toes not knowing if the name is a false positive or not, but macros will either warp & cloak, or be programmed to ignore them, enabling people to sneak up on them legitimately. LOL WHAT IS THIS I know how you feel. Material of this nature affect us all in different ways. What you need to do is learn from this. And this is just my sig.
Stan Smith	Posted - 2010.04.26 11:48:00 - [18] Or ccp can just ban every character named "hdhfjwidhfhhaixihehsjjfhhdjehfhshshdhdh". True, you may catch a few legitimate players, but if they can't think of a real name for a character, does it really matter?
Midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.04.26 11:50:00 - [19] Originally by: I SoStoned Here's how you fix macros, at least in 0.0 Server picks a random name from a system in empire, then duplicates that name on a local channel in 0.0 - randomly populating them with one or more names. Or, heck, just random gobs of text. A human would be able to identify the gibberish as such, but a bot would not (hint: Eve limits player names to two discreet words - false names could then be made into three words, something perhaps difficult for botters to differentiate). Does this for every 0.0 system with one name in it, and cycles the name every few minutes/hours. Real players will be kept on their toes not knowing if the name is a false positive or not, but macros will either warp & cloak, or be programmed to ignore them, enabling people to sneak up on them legitimately. remove local from 0.0 macro ratters gone -----------------------------------------------
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.26 11:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Midge Mo'yb remove local from 0.0 macro ratters gone Remove local from 0.0 Have bots hit the directional scanner nonstop.

Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 12:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: Midge Mo'yb remove local from 0.0 macro ratters gone Remove local from 0.0 Have bots hit the directional scanner nonstop. Change scanners so that rescanning within 30 seconds causes heat buildup. Keep doing it for more than a couple of minutes, and your scanner burns out until you can dock and repair it. Add precisely timed scanning intervals to the list of "bot flag" behaviours. Signed, Pheusia
Geralden	Posted - 2010.04.26 12:07:00 - [22] None of those marco users are paying customors. When you macro 23h, 30 days a month, even if you mine veldspar, you will have cash to buy PLEX or GTC's. They are a waste of space, and noone needs them. Those macro users got to go.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.26 12:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 26/04/2010 12:13:31 One way or another, banning macroers and bots efficiently requires human GM participation. Originally by: Geralden None of those marco users are paying customors. When you macro 23h, 30 days a month, even if you mine veldspar, you will have cash to buy PLEX or GTC's. They are a waste of space, and noone needs them. Those macro users got to go. Nonsense, more bot accounts paid with plexes increase their price. That means people get more ISK for their real money which encourages them to spend more.
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 12:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Pheusia What say you? I say that it would just end up in a race between bot-writers and CCP. Bot-writers would try to escape CCP's automatic analysis tools by introducing some random elements or what not. CCP would need to improve their detection methods and so on. Precious resources wasted this way. No, it is much better to focus on those who profit from the bots. ISK sellers and buyers for example. Ban them! And anyway ... there is some pretty wise saying that when some gameplay rewards the use of bot that then the game design is bad. So I agree that the game design is bad and should be changed. Grinding is always stupid and pretty much waste of time, it really screams for the use of bots. Change the grind to some interesting and complex game play and you are rid of the bots and have improved your game. What would that mean for Eve? Change mining to something interesting and interactive instead of mindless grind. Change ratting and mission running to something interesting and get rid of the grind there too. A battle against the bots with automated tools, however, is doomed to fail and just a waste of resources. Change gamedesign and get rid of bots this way. I agree with your point about root causes. By all means improve the PvE in EVE so that it is less predictable and easy enough for a few hundred lines of code to compeletely defeat. I agree 100% with this goal. But that does not excuse cheating. Not all botters are RMTers; some are simply cheaters. It may be - as you say - that there would be an escalation by the bot writers. But at the very least, let's put the bot writers to that trouble. Let's make the botters have to create and train up a bunch of new bot accounts. Let's make botters use 2 or 3 accounts instead of one. Let's make botters have to buy new macros every couple of months. Let's increase their overhead, increase their time spent and decrease their rewards. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away. Not being able to perfectly solve the problem is a pathetic excuse for not even trying to improve it. Signed, Pheusia
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.26 13:15:00 - [25] Quote: And anyway ... there is some pretty wise saying that when some gameplay rewards the use of bot that then the game design is bad. Not always true, for example in a shooter an aimbot will always work, and that doesnt necesarily mean gameplay is bad. In eve it is true though. Originally by: Pheusia Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: Midge Mo'yb remove local from 0.0 macro ratters gone Remove local from 0.0 Have bots hit the directional scanner nonstop. Change scanners so that rescanning within 30 seconds causes heat buildup. Keep doing it for more than a couple of minutes, and your scanner burns out until you can dock and repair it. Add precisely timed scanning intervals to the list of "bot flag" behaviours. Then you can also remove npc pirate spawns from 0.0, since by now you pretty much chased out any legimate ratter anyway, so only ones remaining are macros.
Xtover Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.26 13:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Pheusia Change scanners so that rescanning within 30 seconds causes heat buildup. Keep doing it for more than a couple of minutes, and your scanner burns out until you can dock and repair it. Add precisely timed scanning intervals to the list of "bot flag" behaviours. great, so now you killed all of 0.0.
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.26 14:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Xtover Originally by: Pheusia Change scanners so that rescanning within 30 seconds causes heat buildup. Keep doing it for more than a couple of minutes, and your scanner burns out until you can dock and repair it. Add precisely timed scanning intervals to the list of "bot flag" behaviours. great, so now you killed all of 0.0 who dont know how to play and wont learn. FYP. If you dont like being hunted, be the hunter. Signed, Pheusia
Mkah Mvet Chumly Incorporated Beyond-Control	Posted - 2010.04.26 14:07:00 - [28] Make more interesting content? But then the content team will be too busy to spam the universe with space-junk at planet warp in points! (see recent dev blogs for outrage)
Midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.04.26 14:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: Midge Mo'yb remove local from 0.0 macro ratters gone Remove local from 0.0 Have bots hit the directional scanner nonstop. the point was more, use recons kill them - they get ****ed off and cant buy any more rice - then go play wow -----------------------------------------------
Sellmewarez	Posted - 2010.04.26 14:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Midge Mo'yb Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: Midge Mo'yb remove local from 0.0 macro ratters gone Remove local from 0.0 Have bots hit the directional scanner nonstop. the point was more, use recons kill them - they get ****ed off and cant buy any more rice - then go play wow Please never post again.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.