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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 00:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sciencegeek deathdealer on 27/04/2010 00:45:51 SISI Patch just came out. Yes I have been sitting and pressing F5 for 4 hours... http://content.eveonline.com/test/evepremiumpatch145169-148433_test_m.exe
So what does everyone think of the latest iteration of planetary interaction?
EDIT: Whats up with the post timer back? I thought that got squashed!
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Exie
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.27 00:42:00 -
[2]
I thank you for your dedication, now I am DLing it. E...
We be Jammin' |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 00:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 00:50:37
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer
EDIT: Whats up with the post timer back? I thought that got squashed!
someone started spaming pron so they brought it back
edit note **** not pron this is EvE not Louisiana
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 00:51:00 -
[4]
Yay they have the new log on UI and graphics!
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer Yay they have the new log on UI and graphics!
BOO! I liked the old Domi login screen!
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Exie
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:10:00 -
[6]
buggy with the market... can't buy anything. E...
We be Jammin' |
EvIlNiTrOuS
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:11:00 -
[7]
is this new patch for today? cause i been trying to get in the singularity server and no luck says somthing about protocal
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: EvIlNiTrOuS is this new patch for today? cause i been trying to get in the singularity server and no luck says somthing about protocal
Yes you have to do the manual download as far as i know.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer Edited by: Sciencegeek deathdealer on 27/04/2010 01:04:01 Edited by: Sciencegeek deathdealer on 27/04/2010 01:01:45 Yay they have the new log on UI and graphics!
Edit: bugs found so far-
1) VERY laggy 2) Cannot right click ship or the cap thingy
OMG IN LOVE WITH PLANETARY LINKS! graphics = nicer and the different lvls are great
ok overview is completly fubared
all CCs are buyable
Export Tax?
um why are Comand center upgrades not seeded or did I miss them
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
um why are Comand center upgrades not seeded or did I miss them
Not sure because I'm still downloading, but afaik all the upgrades are done directly on site... IE: select link/cc and find the upgrade button... On links it's always been there... On ccs maybe they've added it this patch?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:20:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 01:22:25 Comand center upgrades Rank 4 skill C/I
Each rank in this skill improves the quality of command facility available to you, in turn allowing for a greater number of connected facilities on that planet. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.
Interplanetary Consolidation Rank 4 skill C/I
For each rank in this skill, you may install a command center on one additional planet, to a maximum of 6 planets. You can have only one command center per planet. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
suun Leeh
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:21:00 -
[12]
Got a few bugs . As of right now at least in the molden heathe market none of the command centers were available. The items selected window is bugged. It will only show the picture of what is selected with no buttons below it and in the background still shows nothing selected. I placed one of my few remaining command centers on a lava planet. tried to scan the planet before hand for each of the items available and could not get the slider bar to adjust the planet graphics to show where the minerals were.( Oh by the way you can now decommission command centers but when you do they go poof they do not reappear in your cargo hold.
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CCP Habakuk
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:21:00 -
[13]
We know that the current patch on Singularity does not work correctly. We will look into it in the morning and it might be necessary to create a new patch (if it is not only a server-side issue). Please wait with patching your Singularity clients till a (new) patch is officially available. |
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Exie
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:22:00 -
[14]
Yea, I am on SiSi now New UI has some pretty big bugs though. Overview does not show any options, have to right click to move around and jump... market buy order, no buttons to actually buy anything. E...
We be Jammin' |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:24:00 -
[15]
OK this is big... REALLY BIG... infact I'll go so far asto say TITANIC! NO, Chribba Sized! Brace yourself!
PI APEARS TO BE NO LONGER INSTANCED! You can right click a planet and select, "Hide other players networks"!
@CCP we can speculate with our buggy clients :P awesome work!
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EvIlNiTrOuS
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:25:00 -
[16]
is there a way to change the color of everything to the original black theme? cause this blue isnt exactly a color i favor.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer OK this is big... REALLY BIG... infact I'll go so far asto say TITANIC! NO, Chribba Sized! Brace yourself!
PI APEARS TO BE NO LONGER INSTANCED! You can right click a planet and select, "Hide other players networks"!
@CCP we can speculate with our buggy clients :P awesome work!
It never was instanced ... you just couldn't see the other player's stuff on the planet.
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Exie
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Habakuk We know that the current patch on Singularity does not work correctly. We will look into it in the morning and it might be necessary to create a new patch (if it is not only a server-side issue). Please wait with patching your Singularity clients till a (new) patch is officially available.
In other words, we are not done yet, stop jumping the gun. Got it. Thanks for the heads up. E...
We be Jammin' |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer OK this is big... REALLY BIG... infact I'll go so far asto say TITANIC! NO, Chribba Sized! Brace yourself!
PI APEARS TO BE NO LONGER INSTANCED! You can right click a planet and select, "Hide other players networks"!
@CCP we can speculate with our buggy clients :P awesome work!
It never was instanced ... you just couldn't see the other player's stuff on the planet.
basicly instanced, although yes people affected each other by manipulating the minerals on the planet.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:42:00 -
[20]
sigh
have to use the auto pilot to jump now lol
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
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Harlin Elki
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:49:00 -
[21]
and still not a WH to be found. oh well...
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:52:00 -
[22]
ok have the overview fixed but my scans are comeing up blank
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:00:00 -
[23]
UI is (a lot) better but still too clicky
Spaceport is currently unbuildable even when its the sole structure on the basic CC. . . so um how the heck are we suposed to make anything
Scan still not working properly
Hide/show does not seem to do anything
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 02:11:29 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 02:09:14 ok what I love about the new UI
its a bit better better
home and Exit button
Edit mode now shows current and post edit power-CPU levels
Submit and cancle buttons now up top where they need to be
Extractors on the world I have used them seem to be in the correct alphabetical order
what I hate?
the scan buttons are STILL not in the correct alphabetical order (for example, it should be
Aqueos Base
NOT Base Aqueous
Best feature so far?
YES OH THANK YOU GOD IN HEAVEN YOU CAN DELETE THE CC!
no. you do not get it back
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Steve Thomas UI is (a lot) better but still too clicky
Spaceport is currently unbuildable even when its the sole structure on the basic CC. . . so um how the heck are we suposed to make anything
Scan still not working properly
Hide/show does not seem to do anything
Launchpads need 1600 CPU. Basic CC's only have 1007.
There are other (currently not seeded) Command Centers with more PG and CPU.
Currently planets don't seem to have resources. ---
DesuSigs |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Horchan
Originally by: Steve Thomas UI is (a lot) better but still too clicky
Spaceport is currently unbuildable even when its the sole structure on the basic CC. . . so um how the heck are we suposed to make anything
Scan still not working properly
Hide/show does not seem to do anything
Launchpads need 1600 CPU. Basic CC's only have 1007.
There are other (currently not seeded) Command Centers with more PG and CPU.
Currently planets don't seem to have resources.
they know that its deliberate, they nuked everything and will reseed the worlds after the morning reset.
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Equto
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:36:00 -
[27]
Only 6 planets... that seems kind of limited...
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Equto Only 6 planets... that seems kind of limited...
well your limmited to the number of stripminers on mining barges, and how many industry runs you can do at one time unless you buy alts
currently at level 5/5 your basicaly running about 24 times the extractors you can run at level 0/0
think of all the fracking clicking you will need to do at that level
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 02:59:00 -
[29]
The planet count should be raised to 12 or 18. that makes more sense i think.
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Th0rG0d
Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2010.04.27 03:11:00 -
[30]
Haven't done anything yet, but I'd like to comment on the new splash. Love the animation! I see the can in a tractor beam(?) coming up, but what is going down? It looks like it explodes, so is this showing orbital bombardment?!
Adrift in New Eden |
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 03:40:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 03:41:54
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer The planet count should be raised to 12 or 18. that makes more sense i think.
let me guess, but only on your account?
(sorry cant help it lol) but seriously with this just train the other two slots on an account to get them, unlike setting up a 3 man mining team you dont need 2 other accounts as is.
you also dont need the extra 1-2 hulks and an orca. so far you can do a lot of this from what I am seeing with just a TIMO industrial.
that and with a full 5/5 skillset your already pulling around 24 times the yeild of just one basic extractor
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 04:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 04:18:10 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 04:09:43 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 02:33:10 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 01:39:28 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 01:38:13 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 01:22:25 inserting info as I find it outISK cost of each upgrade is 150k for extractors 600k for storage 225k for processors 450k Advanced 900k High Teck
No I Am Not Kidding. you are ***NOT*** reimbursed for taking up any of this is you remove anything
not counting the Base CC your looking at roughly 2 million per planet to set this up with the basic unit.
I hope to god this means that that !@#$ Resource remap is flat gone otherwise this is so freaking loaded with Failsauce its not even remotly funny.
Ironicaly the only way I caught this was because I used a newbi alt to build with and he ran out of money.
honestly all the food manufactureres on earth could not make enough sauce to match the level of failsauce you will have achived with this expansion if anyone is forced to rip up there network even once.
It also means that if we have to rip up a network to build up PI then you basicaly waisted your time codeing in all the units between Basic and elite because you would be a damned fool to build any units in between if your constantly riping out the exising units with each upgrade.
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
The Pricer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 05:22:00 -
[33]
Would u stop doubble posting and trolling urself steve!
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Periapt
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Posted - 2010.04.27 05:33:00 -
[34]
Seem like the changed the distribution of planets in patch too. System I was in has completely different planet types than before patch.
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Arboreal Feline
Nondegradable Tritanium Space Rodents
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Posted - 2010.04.27 05:57:00 -
[35]
Does anyone have any info on extracted or processed material sizes? Or are they still placeholders?
Also, the 6 planet max seems reasonable, as long as the CC/module upgrades mean we can make sizable upgraded extractor farms. I want to be able to link together 10-15 modules. 5-6 modules per planet just doesn't seem epic enough for EVE.
***************************** Sometimes I forget how dumb people are. Thank you for reminding me, OP. |
Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.04.27 06:20:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Arboreal Feline Does anyone have any info on extracted or processed material sizes? Or are they still placeholders?
Only CCP knows if it's final but if it helps here's the list:
typeNamevolume (mŠ) Aqueous Liquids0,02 Autotrophs0,02 Bacteria0,04 Base Metals0,02 Biocells0,06 Biofuels0,04 Biomass0,04 Biotech Research Reports0,08 Broadcast Node0,1 Camera Drones0,08 Carbon2 Carbon Compounds0,02 Chiral Structures0,04 Complex Organisms0,02 Condensates0,08 Construction Blocks0,06 Consumer Electronics0,06 Coolant0,06 Cryoprotectant Solution0,08 Data Chips0,08 Electrolytes0,04 Enriched Uranium0,06 Felsic Magma0,02 Fertilizer0,06 Gel-Matrix Biopaste0,08 Genetically Enhanced Livestock0,06 Guidance Systems0,08 Hazmat Detection Systems0,08 Heavy Metals0,02 Hermetic Membranes0,08 High-Tech Transmitters0,08 Industrial Explosives0,08 Industrial Fibers0,04 Integrity Response Drones0,1 Ionic Solutions0,02 Livestock0,06 Mechanical Parts0,06 Micro Organisms0,02 Microfiber Shielding0,06 Miniature Electronics0,06 Nanite Repair Paste0,01 Nanites0,06 Nano-Factory0,1 Neocoms0,08 Noble Gas0,02 Noble Metals0,02 Non-CS Crystals0,02 Nuclear Reactors0,08 Organic Mortar Applicators0,1 Oxides0,06 Oxidizing Compound0,04 Oxygen0,04 Planetary Vehicles0,08 Planktic Colonies0,02 Plasmoids0,04 Polyaramids0,06 Polytextiles0,06 Precious Metals0,04 Proteins0,04 Reactive Gas0,02 Reactive Metals0,04 Recursive Computing Module0,1 Robotics0,08 Rocket Fuel0,06 Self-Harmonizing Power Core0,1 Silicate Glass0,06 Silicon0,04 Smartfab Units0,08 Sterile Conduits0,1 Supercomputers0,08 Superconductors1 Supertensile Plastics0,06 Suspended Plasma0,02 Synthetic Oil0,06 Synthetic Synapses0,08 Test Cultures0,06 Toxic Metals0,04 Transcranial Microcontrollers0,08 Transmitter0,06 Ukomi Super Conductors0,08 Vaccines2 Viral Agent0,06 Water0,04 Water-Cooled CPU0,06 Wetware Mainframe0,1
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 07:11:00 -
[37]
Anyone else having a hard time getting the calendar to open this build?
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.04.27 07:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: Arboreal Feline Does anyone have any info on extracted or processed material sizes? Or are they still placeholders?
Only CCP knows if it's final but if it helps here's the list:
those are placeholders and will be changed in the near future on singularity. The general approach will be more advanced products will get larger in volume. The raw materials should stay close to where they are so if you are over-exploiting your extraction then the links will need upgraded to handle the cycle volume.
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Lister829
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.27 11:19:00 -
[39]
Just logged on to new patch. 1000% improved. I now see where you were going and it looks great! Was able to put an extractor, submit, scan for resources and get route set, then build another extractor and submit once would start up the first extractor and get the second ready to scan. Rinse and repeat. Put each extractor on the longest lasting resource to see how long it will actually last (95 hours would be nice). Will play more later - have to go to work now :-(
So far, am loving what you have fixed [EXIT]
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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 11:33:00 -
[40]
some screeny of the new graphics would be
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.27 11:41:00 -
[41]
love the new grahpics, love the changes to distances, could be lowered 10% but looks overall ok Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Equto
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Posted - 2010.04.27 11:46:00 -
[42]
Is there any information on the supposed trade hub that will allow us to transport between planets without having to waste a launch. I think is was designed in mind to allow very complex networks where all production on 1 planet and the resources are sent to that planet.
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Mr Pikey
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.27 11:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Periapt Edited by: Periapt on 27/04/2010 05:43:47 Seem like the changed the distribution of planets in patch too. System I was in has completely different planet types than before patch.
Same in my system, I had a beautiful Temperate planet right outside the station I called 'home' (picked because of the awesome planet view) and today it's changed to a bland 'Barren' type planet. Give me back my 'Earth' planet CCP.
So first impressions; Download and install on my test PC all went fine as expected.
First login displayed the new 'Tryannis' splash screen (small) and the new animated large splash screen, very nice CCP, mucho like.
On 'arriving' in my home station the first thing I noticed was the new icons for all the Command Centres, subtle but nice as white drawings on a black background.
All my previous efforts of PI were gone so I had to start again, not a bad idea as I could see how the new interface worked. So I load up a Temperate Command Centre and undock, only to be greeted by this abomination of a Barren planet (as noted above) right outside my station undock ramp. WTF CCP where have all my planets gone, all I have are Gas and Barren planets.
So I fly back to the station and change Command Centres to a Barren type, undock yet again and fly to a Barren planet (not the one right outside) and proceed to set up my facilities.
First is go to planet view and scan the planet, the resource bars don't look to bad at least I have amounts of all the resources, some more than others but enough for a test. The scanner works much the same as before and by using the slider even colour blind old git's like me can see the best spots for my extractors.
I select a spot and click the [Build] tab, I note the 'Command Centres' selection line highlights but everything else remains greyed out. I select the CC line for my CC (the only type line highlighted) and position the pointer on the planet where I want it to appear, a single click deposits the CC and that's it, no, a new button has highlighted [Submit] and 'Edits Pending' has appeared above it (nice). I click the Submit button and my CC is 'live'.
Setting up the rest of the chain is simply a case of selecting each unit you require and clicking to deposit it where required. Don't click the Submit button again until all links and routes are installed and all units positioned. The route interface is much better, just click the product, click the now highlighted [Create Route] button and a new window opens waiting for you to select a destination (single click your destination) and the small red 'no destination' will change to your intended route, click Submit (no not that one, the small button) and route is deployed, note the new input box with the amount required/amount produced (and it defaults to maximum, thank you CCP). A final click of the main [Submit] button and we are good to go.
Next I start my extractors; I click the first extractor to bring up the usual selection window (nothing changed much here) and click the 'Scan for resources' line, hooray, CCP have listened, scanning takes place straight away (with a subtle scanning bar sweeping from side to side, note to CCP needs a Cylon type sound here lol).
Now we see a major change the bar stops and the drop window displays the scanned results (note needs a wider window or scroll bar as the right column was only partly displayed). The results now give either an extraction of a lot of resource in a short time (2102 per cycle, depletion in 30 mins) to a long extraction time of 115 per cycle depleting in 95 hours, much better.
So extraction is under way, time for lunch, be back later with the results.
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Jongo Fett
Caldari Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 12:19:00 -
[44]
Loving the splashscreen along with the new cargo link model :p.
Just gonna go buy a few elite CC's and give this a test!
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.27 12:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/04/2010 03:41:54
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer The planet count should be raised to 12 or 18. that makes more sense i think.
let me guess, but only on your account?
(sorry cant help it lol) but seriously with this just train the other two slots on an account to get them, unlike setting up a 3 man mining team you dont need 2 other accounts as is.
you also dont need the extra 1-2 hulks and an orca. so far you can do a lot of this from what I am seeing with just a TIMO industrial.
that and with a full 5/5 skillset your already pulling around 24 times the yeild of just one basic extractor
Im sorry if for some reason i ****ing offended you but there is no need to be an ass. Im talking about on all accounts. yes i have more then one and will use all of them, but for a single account player they cannot even contain an entire system. next time ask before attacking :) thanks!
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Clb
The Intersect
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Posted - 2010.04.27 12:48:00 -
[46]
I'm getting stuck on 'Acquiring bulk data 5/46'. I guess I should wait for the fixes.
(I made an alt on sisi last night and set it training Anchoring to 3 so I could test something with POSes and now I can't login to finish the testing )
---
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.04.27 12:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Equto Is there any information on the supposed trade hub that will allow us to transport between planets without having to waste a launch. I think is was designed in mind to allow very complex networks where all production on 1 planet and the resources are sent to that planet.
To import stuff to the surface you will need a launchpad at your colony. When you have this you can use the customs office (an object in orbit of the planet which you can warp to and transfer items to there from your cargo) to transfer stuff to the surface. In the customs office menu you select either import to surface or export from the surface to space. Then drag and drop what you want moved where and click the action button to let the magic happen.
This will be particularly useful if you either are producing the final stage commodities at a processing colony as you will need products sourced from other planets or players.
Command centres allow you to export stuff from the surface using a rocket launch so useful where you have an extraction focused colony and want to move the items one way only from the surface to your processing colony or the market.
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Jongo Fett
Caldari Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 13:04:00 -
[48]
ive got a bug whereby it says i need to order a fresh survey on one of my extrators before i can submit it. However if i delete and remake them it still says this . Wont let me submit my epic planet
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Calhontor
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Posted - 2010.04.27 13:27:00 -
[49]
Some screenies of the new GFX plz.
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Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.27 13:31:00 -
[50]
So far the imprived UI and new planet graphics look quite impressive, when I get back I can start buying elite command centers and do some research and btw is Amarr system left without seeding the new stuff on purpose ?
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Jongo Fett
Caldari Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 13:54:00 -
[51]
Other People
Theres a quick shot, shows my facility on the right and some one elses on my left.
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Lantanaa
Caldari DEFCON. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.27 14:40:00 -
[52]
GET OFF MY LAWN
Other people, nice, waiting for nuke...
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Calhontor
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Posted - 2010.04.27 14:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jongo Fett Other People
Theres a quick shot, shows my facility on the right and some one elses on my left.
I heard someone say graphics , thats still looks like dots and lines to me.
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.04.27 14:55:00 -
[54]
So far I'm liking the new updates to PI. The tiers of production are better sorted out with the various tiers produced at different production facilities, the amount of ore extracted, and the harvest times system is MUCH improved. I'm liking lots.
I've found 1 bug, which I submitted, if you build a command center on a planet, then decomission it in order to build a bigger one, you can't build it because it says you already have one.
at any rate.. my lovely lava planet is making piles of consumer electronics, so if anyone wants a plasma TV, just give me a holler ;)
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Grammer
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2010.04.27 14:57:00 -
[55]
I got a bug...
I placed a basic cc down ran out of production room so i deleted it and submited teh changes. Then I put a elite cc down but it wont let me submit since it thinks there is still another cc on the planet.
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Zeredek
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.27 15:22:00 -
[56]
I can't try it out my SiSi acc is still not reactivated
Originally by: CCP Chronotis whiners
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.04.27 15:36:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 27/04/2010 15:37:51 Haven't looked into the new build much yet but to my own surprise the interface has gotten quite a bit better, good job!
Apart from the remaining old quirks that have been mentioned it does now need a visual cue as to when far enough from another structure to actually place it (just shade it red when too close or something like that).
And the resource scan should be sorted alphabetically just like the extractors, makes picking the right one easier.
edit: Also the contents display of processors is probably not immediately obvious, needs a better label IMO.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.04.27 15:39:00 -
[58]
I like it so far. One thing I'd propose is that a double click on a item in Route or Products will activate the create route option instead of show info and a double click on a deposit in survey selects the deposit. That means, you will only need one mouse gesture (double click) for those actions instead of three (click- select, move, click-select). Less tedious that way. --------
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Green Drag0n
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Posted - 2010.04.27 15:48:00 -
[59]
Some issues with PI:
I was able to set up two command centers so far (found out about the isk-cost the hard way and still generating money to cover the loss).
Love the 6 planet limit.
NOTE: On many planets, anything below blue concentration (on scan) will not be visible. even the blue and green can be hard to spot. I'd suggest brightening or lowering the transparency on this to make it more visible to players, rather than acting like acid-rain clouds.
Haven't made anything higher than nanites yet so I have yet to see the high-end manufacturing.
But from what I can tell, there's at least a 5 mil isk barrier to get started (which is almost guaranteed to go up).
I definitely gotta try different organization though, my current model just won't work. XD
As far as the blueprints, does that refer to recipes for the production plants, or will that be unaffected? |
Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.27 16:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Abrazzar I like it so far. One thing I'd propose is that a double click on a item in Route or Products will activate the create route option instead of show info and a double click on a deposit in survey selects the deposit. That means, you will only need one mouse gesture (double click) for those actions instead of three (click- select, move, click-select). Less tedious that way.
Actually, I think implementing a circular menu when you roll over any structure will solve this issue of too-many-mouse-clicks.
For instance - roll over your command structure, you get a quick "routes" icon(if you have any links), a "links" icon, and an "upgrade" icon. Clicking the links or routes icon gives you the same thing you would if you clicked using the info window, however it's less confusing.
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Dan Grobag
Caldari Grobag's Family
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Posted - 2010.04.27 16:32:00 -
[61]
My pretty colony : X
North is mining a noble gas layer and south is mining a ionic solutions layer.
Both are processed into a factory giving oxygen and electrolytes wich are then mixed in a last factory at the center to give synthetic oil. In the end this is stored near the pcc ready to be launched into orbit.
I could shorten the lengh of my north and south 'arms' to save some pg and put a couple more extractors but I don't know by how much I must space my extractor to avoid resource depletion.
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Jack bubu
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.27 16:34:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Green Drag0n Some issues with PI:
I was able to set up two command centers so far (found out about the isk-cost the hard way and still generating money to cover the loss).
Love the 6 planet limit.
NOTE: On many planets, anything below blue concentration (on scan) will not be visible. even the blue and green can be hard to spot. I'd suggest brightening or lowering the transparency on this to make it more visible to players, rather than acting like acid-rain clouds.
Haven't made anything higher than nanites yet so I have yet to see the high-end manufacturing.
But from what I can tell, there's at least a 5 mil isk barrier to get started (which is almost guaranteed to go up).
I definitely gotta try different organization though, my current model just won't work. XD
As far as the blueprints, does that refer to recipes for the production plants, or will that be unaffected?
If you want to see ressources with lower concentration, pull the slider to the left until some spots turn red :)
not sure if im satisfied with the 6 planets limit.. id say an advanced skill with 8x multiplier should allow additional 5 planets, else the lot of skillpoints that can be invested into PI is fairly low imho.
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Kiran
Minmatar Terra Hawks AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2010.04.27 17:17:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Harlin Elki and still not a WH to be found. oh well...
I seem to find them ok. Been in 3 so far.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.27 17:49:00 -
[64]
I logged in right before work and I have a few quick (and I would think "simple") fixes and tweaks that will make this a really cool addition.
First, I really like how it's shaping up, and allowing us to see other users and their links is very cool. Also limiting the distance between PINS is great.
I haven't had the time to play with actually placing structures or links yet but I would like to suggest a few things.
When placing a structure - give some visual representation of links & routes - so we don't place something that is too far away.
When zooming into the planet, at the farthest zoom, the planet textures and bumpmaps need to be mipmapped so the resolution can be increased. When you zoom out, it's great, but when you zoom in the pixelation is really noticeable.
For planets with rings, it would be sweet if you can include a particle layer of larger asteroids in the rings (only seen when panning or going through the rings). This could also be added to the main view too - just adds to the planet's coolness factor.
For the basic UI - make a simple UI and an advanced UI. The simple UI does most basic tasks with one mouse-click. The advanced can be similar to the "info" window.
Please add a background to the left-hand UI to seperate it from the game elements (simple gradient would be good). Also, please make it moveable.
------
A few "hopes" I would have for future tweaks - adding a visual layer to the planets that makes it look like they have buildings on the surface (within reason of course). For instance, if a planet is usually dark and unpopulated, you can have a layer that shows up as it gets populated, ie lights start shining, and in the sunny side there is some "city" coloration, along with NPC cars & satalites.
Add some nice backgrounds to the planets using DX9 & DX10 - volumetric effects, etc.
Allow us to see land masses outlines over the clouds layer (a check can be on/off to enable the outlines)
population control, etc
Overall - I'm starting to be less worried, but there's still more work
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.27 20:02:00 -
[65]
Same issue didn't fixed. Planetary interaction interface covered by chat windows and there's no way to move it out to visibility.
Originally by: Jim Luc I logged in right before work and I have a few quick (and I would think "simple") fixes and tweaks that will make this a really cool addition.
It's mostly not fixes or tweaks, but pimpage. Something that absolutely nonessential. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Imuran
The first genesis Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.04.27 21:51:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer
- Several planets changed their type.
Love to here the backstory justifying these massive cosmic events :D
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Arboreal Feline
Nondegradable Tritanium Space Rodents
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Posted - 2010.04.27 21:58:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Imuran
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer
- Several planets changed their type.
Love to here the backstory justifying these massive cosmic events :D
I'm sure it's just CCP playing with the randomizer on SISI in regards to seeding planets with resources. I doubt any planets on TQ will change type then Tyrannis hits.
***************************** Sometimes I forget how dumb people are. Thank you for reminding me, OP. |
menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.04.27 22:15:00 -
[68]
It's been showing the server not accepting connections for quite a few hours. I'm not the only one getting this message am I?
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Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.04.27 22:17:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 27/04/2010 22:18:20
Originally by: Arboreal Feline
Originally by: Imuran
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer
- Several planets changed their type.
Love to here the backstory justifying these massive cosmic events :D
I'm sure it's just CCP playing with the randomizer on SISI in regards to seeding planets with resources. I doubt any planets on TQ will change type then Tyrannis hits.
from the words of Oneiromancer, several means "over 40k" (and no puns please). I doubt they went that far just to "play with the randomizer". And changed doesn't mean different resources, it means that many planets got changed to barren, or similar other changes.
Imho it means they distributed planet types more evenly around zones, and possibly planet types are more skewed towards the production of certain items...
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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.27 22:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Arboreal Feline
Originally by: Imuran
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer
- Several planets changed their type.
Love to here the backstory justifying these massive cosmic events :D
I'm sure it's just CCP playing with the randomizer on SISI in regards to seeding planets with resources. I doubt any planets on TQ will change type then Tyrannis hits.
actualy they said recently they had someone going over there planet data and correcting it since over half the planets and stars in EvE make no sence whatsoever, (planets less than .2 au from a Blue giant primary with a surface temperature under 100 degrees k , said star being older than the known age of the universe, and hotter than anhy known red giant
*****************(sig)********** In other words
Shut the sniveling Put brain in gear Plot according to your preferences, instincts and knowledge Profit
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Zialu
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Posted - 2010.04.28 00:48:00 -
[71]
Currently going through and testing everything. My only gripe so far is that the '8' and '9' in the planetary UI are a bit too similar for me to tell the difference from. I mean the point where you get an update on how much power and CPU will be taken up by any new PINs or links you've put down.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.28 00:50:00 -
[72]
I see atmospheric clouds that surround the planet in the splash screen, which looks nice, but isn't in the game currently. Will we be getting these effects for the final release of Tyrannis??
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JTK Fotheringham
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Posted - 2010.04.28 01:14:00 -
[73]
Just been back on for another play around, and only 1 annoying bug to report.
PINs are still "accidentally" dropping on a spot as you drag the planet view around. I kmow the simple work around is to have the planet viewed at the spot you want to deploy your PIN first, but it is a little annoying.
The improved survey screen is great. I like - much more useful. Also happy to see Charisma will be needed for PI - makes a lot of sense, and it's frustrating, cos my industrial toon has been min/maxed, and guess what's at a min? /shakes fist
The only concern is the big one - I'm not sure about the output quantities. Will it be enough to run a pos, or are we going to see a sudden dearth of pos fuel?
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.28 01:24:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Abrazzar I like it so far. One thing I'd propose is that a double click on a item in Route or Products will activate the create route option instead of show info and a double click on a deposit in survey selects the deposit. That means, you will only need one mouse gesture (double click) for those actions instead of three (click- select, move, click-select). Less tedious that way.
100% agree with this.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.28 02:03:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Jim Luc on 28/04/2010 02:03:47 I got a little more time to play just now, but how this thing works is still very confusing. It needs to be simplified quite a bit if you want people to learn quickly - while still making things more advanced as you progress in skills. One of the big issues with Eve in general I guess is the ultra-steep learning curve.
So, I know I've been really vocal up till now, and I hope someone at CCP is listening to me.... Here's a few more suggestions:
1) I built a mining structure and then clicked "scan for deposits" but it returned 0 deposits (was placed on a white zone, so it should've had plenty of deposits, right?). This needs to be explained a bit more, and streamlined. The way it is currently - as far as I understand it - if there are no deposits, then you're out the investment and time of building the structure??? That's just dumb, you should be able to scan for deposits BEFORE you place and build your structure.
2) As was mentioned several times already - make the dragging of the planet disable placing your building. If you click and release, then you drop, but if you click & drag, it disables release. SIMPLE SIMPLE FIX.
Keep building's holograms shown, regardless of current selection. Make the current selection's hologram larger and an alternate selected color, and give each a rollover color and effect. Too simple and boring otherwise. Oh, and for those nerds who don't want things to look cool, give them a hologram checkbox to disable the building models altogether. For instance, a great idea would be an advanced PI settings tab with options for various users. [x]Show neighbor's holograms [x]show my holograms [o]only show when selected
3) Give us a PI HUD (similar to the ship's HUD - with buttons and icons for your various PI tools) with current CPU/Power, etc. It's the info that's currently shown when you click on the command center - please make it visible ALL the time.
4) When placing structures, make the structures move AROUND the limits so you won't accidentally place one too close or too far away from your comand structure, or other structures. Then it just eliminates the annoying "you cannot place your structure too close" message. Also, limit how far you can place it based on your CPU and/or power constraints. For instance, make it IMPOSSIBLE to place structures where they can't be placed already.
5) What's up with the launchpad?? Why does it give me an error when trying to place it? If it can't be placed, it should be greyed out and a cost associated should be listed next to the command center.
6) Give us nice art and graphics for the command centers - not the rendered holograms.
7) Any chance these holograms can be textured to look like actual buildings with little animations??
8) I want to spend hours playing PI, so it needs to be FUN and addictive. I know some here might say otherwise, but animation and graphics and playability (and re-playability) are all just as important as the economic benefits of this addition.
9) Make transitions to planet view less abrupt (one of the things I wish you'd fix with the rest of Eve are the transitions between station & space, stargates, and now planetary interaction).
10) Give us some basic end goals that each planet can manufacture, sort of like detailed and graphical skill certificates. If I wanted to produce "product X" which is possible to produce through Planetary Interaction, I'd like a nice menu in Planetary View or Science and Industry, to select, then it can show me what I need in order to manufacture it. A tutorial and steps required to manufacture it would be good as well.
11) Upgrades give us upgraded building appearances.
12) Zoomed in all the way gives us higher textures, and animations of lava spirting from the planet and ships and things buzzing around an inhabited area and along the links (you could just have hologram representations of supply ships along the routes.
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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.28 02:20:00 -
[76]
ok apart from Zeroxing the above post and saying this plus
I would just add
Take out the 24 hour cycle and replace it with a 23 hour cycle, it will be less annoying for people who only plan to do this once a day because your constantly bumping them back a few min/half hour or so every time they do this.
oh and ENOGH WITH THE !@#$ RESOURCE REMAPS ALREADY
*****************(sig)********** In other words
Shut the sniveling Put brain in gear Plot according to your preferences, instincts and knowledge Profit
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.28 02:46:00 -
[77]
I was just thinking to myself about how a dynamic 'pollution map' would add to the gameplay for PI. Basically you would be able to see the various environmental problems that your activities create on the planet.
Extractors and processors might have exhaust plumes that drift across the planet and contaminate bio sources, command centers might offload super heated water from their power cores into the oceans thereby upsetting the temperatures of the waterways etc.
It would be funny to watch your mining and industrial pollution impact another player's bio farming efforts. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.04.28 02:47:00 -
[78]
It seems like it will be quite expensive to keep fiddling with colonies. Is it possible to get an additional skill under the "Planet Management" tab to reduce the cost of PINs and upgrades? Also, should Planetology and Remote Sensing be moved under the Planet Management tab as well? They are still located under Science. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Sergi Povitch
Gatehoppers Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.04.28 03:31:00 -
[79]
CPU and MW way to low I couldn't set up 4 extractors (2 dif types) and 2 processers with in 1000km of each other.
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Ashen Spiral
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Posted - 2010.04.28 03:50:00 -
[80]
Could someone please post a list of the new final product blueprints?
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Kruzenshtern
Aeria Gloris Inc UN1CUM
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Posted - 2010.04.28 04:40:00 -
[81]
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if I plonk down a basic CC, how do I upgrade it in place? Or whatever else is meant under upgrades of planetary structures in this thread?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.28 05:21:00 -
[82]
updated the post on the first page with the "tax" info that I have so far
Originally by: Ashen Spiral Could someone please post a list of the new final product blueprints?
there in the BPO section of the BPO listing in its own folder that is quite distinct from the blue blob of the other bpos
Originally by: Sergi Povitch CPU and MW way to low I couldn't set up 4 extractors (2 dif types) and 2 processers with in 1000km of each other.
Buy the Elite unit stop useing the free ones there only 100 isk (and yes they are seeded in the marketplace)
Originally by: Kruzenshtern Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if I plonk down a basic CC, how do I upgrade it in place? Or whatever else is meant under upgrades of planetary structures in this thread?
you dont, delete it and buy an Eliet unit
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.28 05:48:00 -
[83]
OMG keyboard shortcut(s)!!!
YAY!
CTRL+click is now "new link from this PIN". I discovered it kind of by accident.
*hugs whoever implemented this*
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 06:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Ashen Spiral Could someone please post a list of the new final product blueprints?
There is no need: POS modules Sovereignty infrastructures Outpost upgrades
This says all... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.04.28 06:48:00 -
[85]
Edited by: menacemyth on 28/04/2010 06:53:39 I finally got a chance to try this again. v4 is a vast improvement over last week's ui. I do have one suggestion: make the submit and place route buttons, u know the one's at the bottom of the box when placing routes and selecting processor output, make them 50% larger.
They are kind of tiny and require too much precision. my hands just aren't that small ;)
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.28 07:01:00 -
[86]
Bad: * 15 minute extractor cycle time makes ice harvesting look speedy. No interactive feel. * 96 hr rate extracting roughly 1/15 of previous extractors makes it nearly pointless (took a full elite CC with 17 extractors to occupy one processor where previously could have four processors with 8 extractors). Speed penalties too high. * I covered substantial portions of some very large planets and never came close to running out of CPU, but grid is in short supply * Hard to route wide colonies (1/3 of planet or more). * Still some bugs (not easily repeatable), like abandoned stuff not going away, dragged icons randomly dropping, or the UI locking-up (exiting planet mode fixed). * Dang menus take up too much screen real-estate and keep getting in the way (with smaller screen and in widowed mode). * Costs of commodities are gonna rise sharply if this goes live.
Good: * UI better. * Thanks for the Plasma planet, but I'll trade ya a new Barren or two for one of the Ice planets back.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.28 07:02:00 -
[87]
This version is much improved. I'd like to see double-clicking used for "select deposit" and "create link for product" as said above, and some group-selection would be nice, so that you can route and/or scan for deposits for a group of extractors all at once.
The CTRL+click for making links is awesome--maybe something similar for routing products for extractors (since they only have one thing to route at any one time, as far as I can tell).
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.28 07:07:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander * 15 minute extractor cycle time makes ice harvesting look speedy. No interactive feel.
If you could harvest ice while doing something else in a different system or even a different region, there might be a comparison. CCP said it's not something you're intended to sit and watch for hours straight--you're supposed to check on it every so often.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.04.28 07:11:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Ashen Spiral Could someone please post a list of the new final product blueprints?
starbase structures, sovereignty structures, station components and nanite repair paste all will have blueprints which can be purchased from the market and then use varying amounts of the PI commodities to be manufactured in the traditional way. Alongside that, NPC starbasse fuel items like robotics, oxygen etc can be made through the processing and demanded there.
The materials needed for everything are not final but will approximately follow their current cost in scaling of the quantity of materials required.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.04.28 08:19:00 -
[90]
While I am not such a huge fan of the current PI and how it lacks almost everything important (population control, materials necessary for building stuff on planets, interaction with other players, useful management tools etc.), I begin to think that PI is finally on the right tracks to become good. Yay for that!
Now, what I would like to know is the estimated income per hour and how it is going to be balanced.
Take enriched uranium and mechanical parts for example. Enriched uranium costs on TQ right now around 5000 isk per unit, mechnical parts around 600 isk. With PI they need both the same amount of materials (different materials though) and reactors (2 simple, 1 advanced). Both reactions yield each 5 units.
Running the enriched uranium chain gives then 25k per hour, running the mechanical parts chain gives 3k per hour... err, 3000 isk per hour?? Even 25k per hour isn't much at all, considering the involved costs and trouble. On the other hand, if you make the reaction worth for example 150k per hour and you have 2 reactions running per planet and 4 planets then you get around 30 mil per day - totally risk free.
So, how is that going to be balanced? Will you reduce/delete npc sell orders so that a free market on these materials becomes available? |
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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.28 08:50:00 -
[91]
can somebody post some screenshoot of the new graphics ? would be nice :)
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Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 09:03:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Baneken on 28/04/2010 09:04:18 I have a one request to make for links, could we have "sticky links" so that you simply choose the origin for the link and click once for each structure. Ie. click to begin link -> click harvester -> click harvester -> done, instead of choose link from menu -> choose structure -> choose link from menu -> click structure -> choose link from menu -> click structure -> done. Everyone who has drawn continuous lines with CAD/photoshop/paint etc. knows what I mean.
edit: links not routes
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Sicardae Bad'ia
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Posted - 2010.04.28 09:06:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Zothike can somebody post some screenshoot of the new graphics ? would be nice :)
I'll oblige if I'm still awake when sisi comes back from the reboot. |
Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 09:30:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Zothike can somebody post some screenshoot of the new graphics ? would be nice :)
What I'd like to know is if there is any way this will turn a profit with the resources depleting causing you to place new extractors all the time? At least it looks like, so far, you lock in the amount of minerals to be extracted at the time of selection instead of someone being able to grief deplete you by placing 20 fifteen minute extractors on top of your 24hr or 4 day setup.
As for the shiny, here you go with a 4 day dual processor strip mining setup.
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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.28 09:34:00 -
[95]
<3
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.04.28 11:07:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Baneken I have a one request to make for links, could we have "sticky links" so that you simply choose the origin for the link and click once for each structure. Ie. click to begin link -> click harvester -> click harvester -> done, instead of choose link from menu -> choose structure -> choose link from menu -> click structure -> choose link from menu -> click structure -> done. Everyone who has drawn continuous lines with CAD/photoshop/paint etc. knows what I mean.
edit: links not routes
I am not sure if I like that idea or if I understand it. You mean that with 'sticky links' the original of the new link would be the end point of the last link automatically? How to stop this sticky linking then?
"Rightclick on the building -> create link -> select destination -> done" looks pretty okay to me.
Some other points.
1) We need more rightclicks!
+ Rightclicks to install reactions in the reactor. + Rightclicks to create routes.
2) There should be a checkbox in the reactors to limit the shown reactions to only those things available on the planet and/or available from storage silos
3) Exiting planetary mode (either with the exit button or f10/map) should give a warning when there are still outstanding build/modify requests in the queue.
4) Usual eve windows instead of hardcored overlay suff.
5) Change of depots should be possible any time! Maybe I thought I would be away from Eve for a while and set everything to 95 hours but then I come back earlier and are stuck with that ... no good.
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Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 11:21:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Gerbil Preistess on 28/04/2010 11:22:03 One observation. Please make sure that all extractables are worth a minimum of like 30-50 isk per unit if the current export taxes are to be kept. To transfer 500k units of autotrophs off planet via the customs office cost me approximately 5 million isk. That means that with the current tax to run a complex reaction chain on multiple planets the transportation cost alone sets the break-even point at 20 isk per unit not counting the player's time and structure costs and such.
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Equto
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Posted - 2010.04.28 11:46:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Equto on 28/04/2010 11:46:03
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
Originally by: Zothike can somebody post some screenshoot of the new graphics ? would be nice :)
What I'd like to know is if there is any way this will turn a profit with the resources depleting causing you to place new extractors all the time? At least it looks like, so far, you lock in the amount of minerals to be extracted at the time of selection instead of someone being able to grief deplete you by placing 20 fifteen minute extractors on top of your 24hr or 4 day setup.
As for the shiny, here you go with a 4 day dual processor strip mining setup.
I like your setup, however I would make 1 or 2 links to the storage instead of 40 (exaggeration) so that you can save on cpu and PG. most of my setups have all of my extractors are connected with only 1 link to the processors.
As for current cost and Taxes. I take an entire planet to make a processing facility( planet designed to pump out POS parts) and it cost me 15 mil. The planet that extracts cost me another 15-25 mil. The taxes for transporting stuff from the 3 extracting planets to the processing planet are around 15 mil per planet per day. Currently we are looking at 60 mil start-up cost and 15 mil per planet per day (in low sec possibly less in high sec due to less resources) over a week you lose 315 mil for 3 planets. Unless people want to pay alot more for the POS's I have a feeling the export taxes need to atleast be lowered.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 11:56:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess Edited by: Gerbil Preistess on 28/04/2010 11:22:03 One observation. Please make sure that all extractables are worth a minimum of like 30-50 isk per unit if the current export taxes are to be kept. To transfer 500k units of autotrophs off planet via the customs office cost me approximately 5 million isk. That means that with the current tax to run a complex reaction chain on multiple planets the transportation cost alone sets the break-even point at 20 isk per unit not counting the player's time and structure costs and such.
Why do u need to extract Autotrophs? Extract Industrial Fibres. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.04.28 12:05:00 -
[100]
The custom office: I find quite strange that it will appear magically if you put a launchpad un the planet. That's ok for empire, lowsec and npc 0.0 (that is NPC space) but since 0.0 alliances have control of their planets I think that the cargo links/custom offices should be built or and maintained by the alliance, and they should be destructible or damageable.
There are at least 2
1. The cargo link can be damaged but not destroyed. If the cargo link is damaged, it will not work and it must be repaired to get it working again.
2. The cargo link must be produced and anchored at a small cost. It can be destroyed, or just damaged and repaired. It will still work even if it's damaged.
It could be protected by sentry guns.
This is just to give small gangs some actual way to create a bit of damage.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 12:20:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 28/04/2010 12:22:07 Version 4 - Looking and working lots better, congrats.
A couple things ...
Routing, still needs something. When creating a route to a processor, from storage/PCC/launch pad, there is no way to specify a "full cycle load" unless there is already materials available in storage. This means some poor sap has to wait 15 minutes for an extractor to put something in storage. The alternative is a click fest of dealing with each inbound route to storage/PCC/pad and routing that to the processor. There needs to be a way to define a full cycle route to a processor from an empty storage/PCC/pad other than using the inbound routes to the storage/PCC/pad.
Moving Maps - The comparative advantage null sec has over high sec just keeps going up. With resource maps changing, and extractors costing ISK to place, null sec will again have a huge comparative advantage over high sec. The frequency of maps changing should be reduced. Null sec will have higher concentrations. Null sec has less population, and due to higher concentrations, the need to move extractors because of map changes will be significantly less. If the advantage is too high, then many players will not bother with PI as it will not be profitable. As it is now, a basic PCC, making oxygen on a high sec gas planet, at current prices, will take nearly three weeks to break even on costs, and that is not taking into account import/export fees OR having to possibly move extractors. How many six month olds, on the verge of deciding the big question are going to bother? Those who are willing to brave low sec or null should get an advantage - risk/reward. However, for the time investment, the fun/effort balance is way off.
PCC Levels - Having to destroy the entire infrastructure, to place down a new level of PCC is ... Why not have one PCC, and if you have the skills, then you can upgrade it in place. Also I find it odd that players do not build PCCs from a BPO using asteroid mins. Great new opportunity for a mineral sink.
GUI Stuff - Would like to be able to make the popup building windows solid. The transparency may be fancy, but it can be difficult to see things on some planets. Would like to be able to transfer out of a processor - not all runs finish, materials wasted. Viewing planet Menu - Please let me unpin this thing, move it around, change it's back ground to solid, pretty please? With a T2 cherry on top?
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 12:51:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Trimutius III Why do u need to extract Autotrophs? Extract Industrial Fibres.
That would have to do with 2 processors not keeping up with the extractor farm I had going. Still illustrates well enough the fact that unless you do some amount of processing you can not hope to break even, which I think is counter to the intent of allowing trial accounts to play with it too.
Another observation. To illustrate what should be a straight-forward and simple goal for a PI industrialist, we'll look at producing Nanite Repair Paste.
It costs 225k for a single basic processor, I believe you need 22 to run the full chain so 4.95m. It costs 450k for an advanced processor and you need 8 of those so tack on another 3.6m. Supposing you disregard the use of storage facilities, you still have a total of 8.55m to recoup on top of the cost of the control module. Current NPC sell orders for nanite paste hover around 11.7k/unit. The break even point for just the equipment required to run the reaction is 727 units at NPC price. Running this on 4 day extraction setups so you aren't having to replace equipment daily or even more often to compensate for depleting deposits, you need to produce 182 units of nanite paste per day to break even. My math may be a bit fuzzy this time of the morning but if I was somewhere in the ballpark, it takes nearly 150k base extraction units (Carbon Compounds, Base Metals, etc.) to make a single unit of nanite repair paste at PE5. At 286 units average per 15 minutes on a 4 day extraction setup sitting on a strong deposit that places you at approximately 524 cycles to produce a single unit of nanite paste. Needing 182 nanite paste a day to break even, that means you should need to run 96000 cycles or so per day. A single extractor will run 96 cycles per day, so you need 100 extractors in operation to break even with the costs of just the processors. An extractor costs 150k at present. That means you just lost a minimum of 15 million isk for the day running a bastard of a chain which requires a minimum of 5 planets. Now add on the cost of import/export taxes while you're at it.
So my real question is this... how many of the nublet industrialists will lose all of their isk before they realize that there is no way under the present balance to turn a profit?
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 13:07:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
So my real question is this... how many of the nublet industrialists will lose all of their isk before they realize that there is no way under the present balance to turn a profit?
It's a good question. I think the answer will be, they don't. An alternative stratgey will be focus on one level of production, be a P2 maker, be an P1 maker, be a POS builder, be a P4 maker, don't try to do entire chains your self.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Vanden
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.04.28 13:12:00 -
[104]
Re: Routing from storage.
I could be mistaken, but currently it appears that the simplest method for routing materials from storage to a processor is to wait until the extractors have completed a cycle and they have appeared in the storage pin's storage tab, which means waiting for the fifteen minutes extractor cycle to complete beforehand.
With processors, however, you can see what is going to be produced and are able to route it even before production has started. Is there any possibility of getting a similar function for storage units, so we can see at a glance (and be able to route) what is incoming, like a consolidated version of all the separate incoming routes on the route tab?
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Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 13:23:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
So my real question is this... how many of the nublet industrialists will lose all of their isk before they realize that there is no way under the present balance to turn a profit?
It's a good question. I think the answer will be, they don't. An alternative stratgey will be focus on one level of production, be a P2 maker, be an P1 maker, be a POS builder, be a P4 maker, don't try to do entire chains your self.
You would then rely on the people at lower levels being willing to sell at a price which allows you to profit, which is to say, most likely at a loss. Base extractions can't be pulled off of a planet without a large isk sink of taxes, and also can not be introduced to a different planet without the same so that means you'll need to be buying at the least base reactions if you want to just run a higher level of PI production, and that means with current prices people would need to sell those at fractional isk values most likely for you to have a chance. All in all, I think there needs to be some more look at balancing because PI is looking to be almost as useful as the initial release of BlackOps BS was and since the entire patch is being focused on it instead of the hundreds of things the players have been begging for, it makes me a sad panda.
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Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 14:02:00 -
[106]
To gnulpie: Idea is that you click say a processor only once then click once for each your 40 odd processors in order to have link from one unit to another then simply press 'submit' from UI.
Current way of doing things:
*-*-*-*-----> storage facility ^ |_ extractor
With current system you need to choose each structure at least twice, what I propose is that you need to click each structure only once when making links.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 14:14:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
Originally by: Trimutius III Why do u need to extract Autotrophs? Extract Industrial Fibres.
That would have to do with 2 processors not keeping up with the extractor farm I had going. Still illustrates well enough the fact that unless you do some amount of processing you can not hope to break even, which I think is counter to the intent of allowing trial accounts to play with it too.
Build less extractors and few more processors...
Quote:
So my real question is this... how many of the nublet industrialists will lose all of their isk before they realize that there is no way under the present balance to turn a profit?
U forget 1 thing... there will be no NPC orders soon enough. So probably everything will just become more expensive... Plus numbers aren't final yet, so it is early to make such statements... Plus believe me many people will use 24 hour extractions (nolifers may choose even shorter periods)
And i can't understand why u need to pay for new extractors over and over again, i thought it should be single payment. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Snabbik Shigen
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Posted - 2010.04.28 14:21:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Jim Luc Please add a background to the left-hand UI to seperate it from the game elements (simple gradient would be good). Also, please make it moveable.
^^ this - the current location of the left-hand UI screen is in a really bad position for how I normally layout my UI windows. Worse, it can't be moved, which is an absolute PITA.
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Snabbik Shigen
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Posted - 2010.04.28 14:31:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess Current NPC sell orders for nanite paste hover around 11.7k/unit. The break even point for just the equipment required to run the reaction is 727 units at NPC price.
That's assuming that Nanite Paste will continue to sell for 11.7k/unit. If it ends up costing more/less and NPCs stop selling it, then we'll see the price change to a different level.
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.04.28 14:39:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Vanden Re: Routing from storage.
I could be mistaken, but currently it appears that the simplest method for routing materials from storage to a processor is to wait until the extractors have completed a cycle and they have appeared in the storage pin's storage tab, which means waiting for the fifteen minutes extractor cycle to complete beforehand.
With processors, however, you can see what is going to be produced and are able to route it even before production has started. Is there any possibility of getting a similar function for storage units, so we can see at a glance (and be able to route) what is incoming, like a consolidated version of all the separate incoming routes on the route tab?
I second this, having 12 extractors pouring stuff into a storage, then having to click each of those incomings to link them to various processors is very tedious.. a consolidated list of incoming goods would be very usefull, since it's not important for setting up outgoing routes from a storage to have different lines for the various incoming lines, a single total would be very usefull, in clickage, and in management since you will be able to more easily tune the feeding of your processors.
As for the costs.. you don't need to build a new extractor anymore every time you finish a run, you can simply rescan for deposits and select a new one. changing the 24h one to a 23 hour one would be very usefull though. Or maybe make it a 'sliding scale'. Ie: you have X total deposit in the ground that you ahve scanned, only one, no need to select different deposits. You can then select your extraction speed, the higher speed means more wasting, so in the end less ore from the deposit, while slower extraction will be less wasting of the planet's resources. With say 100% efficiency on the slowest extraction speed, taking up 96 hours, and 30% efficiency when you slide the extraction time all the way to a 30 minute run. Possibly add a skill to enhance said efficiency a little. A sliding scale like that would allow for industrialists working a planet to set their own times for when they will next be around to monitor their planets and make adjustments.
Also, being able to upgrade your command center without removing it, and thus blowing up your entire colony would be nice. I'd hate to have to invest in rebuilding a colony from level 4 to level 5 station change.
I am DEFINITELY liking the way this is going, and hope for more improvements/expansions. Just out of curiousity, what are the starbase components used for? I haven't seen a starbase blueprint (yet?).
Another usefull thing would be to add another skill to be able to work more planets, 6 planets even with 6 elite command centers, with good harvesting will make producing advanced products very slow.
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Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2010.04.28 14:39:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Dolgozo Lany on 28/04/2010 14:40:04
Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
Originally by: Trimutius III Why do u need to extract Autotrophs? Extract Industrial Fibres.
That would have to do with 2 processors not keeping up with the extractor farm I had going. Still illustrates well enough the fact that unless you do some amount of processing you can not hope to break even, which I think is counter to the intent of allowing trial accounts to play with it too.
Build less extractors and few more processors...
Quote:
So my real question is this... how many of the nublet industrialists will lose all of their isk before they realize that there is no way under the present balance to turn a profit?
U forget 1 thing... there will be no NPC orders soon enough. So probably everything will just become more expensive... Plus numbers aren't final yet, so it is early to make such statements... Plus believe me many people will use 24 hour extractions (nolifers may choose even shorter periods)
And i can't understand why u need to pay for new extractors over and over again, i thought it should be single payment.
Please allow me to drive your attention to a previous post in PI topics: The NPC goods won't be removed at 18th of May. My crystalball shows me that through the grace period huge amount of whining/post will prove PI is not profitable enough... and the DEVs will tweak a couple of numbers till the end product is more according to their intention. You do remember when it was stated the T3 price are targeted to the HAC/Command ship level.
6 planets? That's extremely low number of planets. Today in SiSi 6 planets is enough, 'cause you have lot of manual tasks to do.
My crystal ball tells me: POS fuel price will remain low only if one planet with 1 setup can get to a POS fuel product, if you have to move and warp around and shoot up and down planet goo to get there... now in that case I can see a broad smile in my financial adviser's face to invest in T2 and POS fuel, 'cause that market will take a serious hit.
anyways... the numbers are still under consideration can be changed easily... if nothing else, we will be able to research ME/PE on the new BPOs till PI numbers get better.
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Frea Siv
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Posted - 2010.04.28 15:19:00 -
[112]
I would REALLY like to have some way of knowing the status of my extractors on all my planets. Possibly a column in the science and industry planet pullout stating "NUMBER OF EXTRACTORS IDLE= XXX" so I could have an easy way of knowing where I need to reset my extractors.
Also, it would be nice to have a way to modify the name of our planets, or at least put some sort of text on each one. That way I could title my planet (again in the science and industry screen) something so I could remember what each planet was doing.
ex. allow long click on planet name, give text box, enter text to change planet name.
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Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.28 15:28:00 -
[113]
Storages and similar facilities need search function as cargo/containers have for both storage and routes. Some kind of summary of all in/out-coming commodities would be nice.
Commodity name | Total routes in(+) | Total routes out (-) | Difference (+/-) | Amount in stock | Estimated time to deplete stock (if applicable)
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.04.28 15:40:00 -
[114]
Ok, some more feedback:
In the previous iterations of PI each PIN had some storage. While I agree with the idea of removing storage from the PINs, it makes the management of material flow difficult. Currently, if you dont have a high enough flow rate from your extractors to your factory, it doesnt produce anything. Where does that unused production go? Do I have to put a storage buffer pin in there by default? What if I had too much flow, where does the excess go? These seem like pretty simple questions that are unable to be solved easily, particularly with the cycle times at 15 minutes. 15 minutes is OK, but it makes tweaking difficult without knowing the information above.\
Another suggestion: Can you make factory schematics resemble rates instead of solid input/output numbers? For example, producing Proteins from Complex Organisms, thats a 6000 Complex Organism input to get 20 Proteins. It would be easier to make it a 300:1 rate, meaning your minimum supply would be 300 COs to get 1 P. From there, you can set the factory to have a maximum production rate of 20, so you can provide the factory anywhere between 300 to 6000 COs and the factory will produce accordingly. This would be extremely useful in the case of certain extractors depleting unevenly. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.28 15:47:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Bad: * 15 minute extractor cycle time makes ice harvesting look speedy. No interactive feel..
hoever it does make it easyer to figure out roughly how many Extractors to processors you need, and the fewer CPU cycles needed serverside the better the preformance Quote: * 96 hr rate extracting roughly 1/15 of previous extractors makes it nearly pointless (took a full elite CC with 17 extractors to occupy one processor where previously could have four processors with 8 extractors). Speed penalties too high..
the 24 hour one is fine, just need to make it slighly less than 24 hours or the constant bumbbacks are going to be annoyng Quote: * I covered substantial portions of some very large planets and never came close to running out of CPU, but grid is in short supply.
start adding things like launch pads and the more advanced processors to a world. . Quote: * Hard to route wide colonies (1/3 of planet or more).Agreed but the home button is nice once you get the hang of it * Still some bugs (not easily repeatable), like abandoned stuff not going away, dragged icons randomly dropping, or the UI locking-up (exiting planet mode fixed). * Dang menus take up too much screen real-estate and keep getting in the way (with smaller screen and in widowed mode)..
agreed and the constant size shifting gets annoying as well Quote: * Costs of commodities are gonna rise sharply if this goes live. .
never forget the planet poo I mine is Free!!!! bunch, that and once you lay out the map you probably dont need to rip things out all the time Quote: Good: * UI better. * Thanks for the Plasma planet, but I'll trade ya a new Barren or two for one of the Ice planets back..
dont count on the seeds being the same on live, they keep saying they leaned thereleson when it came to the moons lol Quote:
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*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.28 15:54:00 -
[116]
My question is in respect to sovereignty and PI. If you are out in 0.0 space you can place CCs in unclaimed space and in systems that your alliance claims sovereignty. You cannot place CCs in systems claimed by anybody else regardless of standings.
What, then, happens if sovereignty changes hands? If I'm working in a system my alliance claims, and sovereignty is taken by someone else, do all the existing PINs continue functioning?
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Zeus
Amarr Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 16:00:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Zeus on 28/04/2010 16:06:12 I've noticed something rather annoying with gas planets. Gas planets are far bigger in scale when compared to the other planets. This is reflected in the powergrid consumption of the transport links but not reflected in the density and distribution of minerals. A short link on another planet costing say 50MW is 200-300 for any gas planet. This inflates the cost of transportation by 500%. The distance from the top of a gas planet to the bottem is over 30,000Km! You can see were this is going, that link would cost 3000+mw alone. Gas PI is incredably immobile unless you are prepared to spend 1/4 of your power grid in just 1 link and that doesnt include the smaller 200Mw ones you will need to link from there. BTW I am using Elite Control centres also :/
Proof pic !http://eve-files.com/dl/221227
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Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.28 16:12:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Trimutius III And i can't understand why u need to pay for new extractors over and over again, i thought it should be single payment.
That you can't relocate your stuff as you search out new deposits is kinda crappy given that you can easily deplete a deposit in a day or less.
I also do not understand if it is a bug or intended but as I did with this example, if you set up all of your scans on a deposit before submitting your choices you can have a rather nice array of extractors pulling on it for full value at scan time despite whatever the current level may be. The spot that I placed the cluster on was at a nice red color less than a day before and with 3 days remaining and all extractors still showing that they are far from depleting the deposit it is all 'nothing to see here' blue. If it is a feature it is nice to prevent grief-tactic deposit ganking by other players. I could have ran a couple more extractors but it would have needed a third processor (the unlinked one was just sitting there to check what the production tree on it was).
Since the NPC market for the lower-end stuff is going to still be in place for some time, low-end PI is a waste of time and a negative isk flow until they do some number crunching.
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Taipan Leviathan
Shadows Of The Requiem Everto Rex Regis
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Posted - 2010.04.28 16:28:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Camios The custom office: I find quite strange that it will appear magically if you put a launchpad un the planet. That's ok for empire, lowsec and npc 0.0 (that is NPC space) but since 0.0 alliances have control of their planets I think that the cargo links/custom offices should be built or and maintained by the alliance, and they should be destructible or damageable.
There are at least 2
1. The cargo link can be damaged but not destroyed. If the cargo link is damaged, it will not work and it must be repaired to get it working again.
2. The cargo link must be produced and anchored at a small cost. It can be destroyed, or just damaged and repaired. It will still work even if it's damaged.
It could be protected by sentry guns.
This is just to give small gangs some actual way to create a bit of damage.
This please. Would cause fighting to occur a new places. (not just Pos, Station, Gate)
Also a quick switch system for vieuwing planets. (f1= planet 1 (user difined) f2 = planet 2 ect) --------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:10:00 -
[120]
How do you prevent "grief mining"?
Grief mining as in: someone drops lots of extractors onto your and deplets the resources very fast, not caring about profit but just for the fun of griefing the other so that he can't mine any more.
Especially on planets where resources deplete very quickly (as in high sec) this is something nasty. And I am sure that at least some people will do it.
How do you avoid this? Should it be avoided?
Also I think that high sec and low sec resources are not abundant enough. 0.0 is pretty safe when it comes to PI, more safe than low sec. How to justify then much higher yield rates there? I think compared to high and especially low sec those resources are way too abundant. |
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:10:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
Originally by: Trimutius III And i can't understand why u need to pay for new extractors over and over again, i thought it should be single payment.
That you can't relocate your stuff as you search out new deposits is kinda crappy given that you can easily deplete a deposit in a day or less.
If you decide to use such tactics (or build on overfilled planets), why are you expecting and even demanding to be profitable?
Space out your extractors properly and extract in a kinder and more profitable way.
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Calpolli Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:25:00 -
[122]
The planet type changes is just a tad immersion breaking...
The system I'm in went from having 1x lava, ice, gas, oceanic, & 4x temperate to 1x lava, ice, temperate, & 4x barren.
And it's not even as if those planets that are the same types as the old planets are in the same place in the star system.
I understand that your astrophysicist went and changed all the data in the universe to be 'accurate', but you could at least have left the overall makeup of each star system the same.
Interesting times await... |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:46:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 28/04/2010 17:52:57
Originally by: Avoida My question is in respect to sovereignty and PI. If you are out in 0.0 space you can place CCs in unclaimed space and in systems that your alliance claims sovereignty. You cannot place CCs in systems claimed by anybody else regardless of standings.
What, then, happens if sovereignty changes hands? If I'm working in a system my alliance claims, and sovereignty is taken by someone else, do all the existing PINs continue functioning?
from everything they have been saying there NO RESTRICTIONS as to where you can drop a CC apart from Jove space. if you can fly there and live long enough to scan and drop the CC you too can run PI in thoes systems
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess
Originally by: Trimutius III And i can't understand why u need to pay for new extractors over and over again, i thought it should be single payment.
That you can't relocate your stuff as you search out new deposits is kinda crappy given that you can easily deplete a deposit in a day or less.
If you decide to use such tactics (or build on overfilled planets), why are you expecting and even demanding to be profitable?
Space out your extractors properly and extract in a kinder and more profitable way.
well if your on a nice quiet planet with nothing but 3 day draws and someone shows up and plops down a nice ICS pattern of 1 day draws the resulting blue feild of death that you end up with is a nice benifit of your slow and easy draw. . .
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:52:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Avoida My question is in respect to sovereignty and PI. If you are out in 0.0 space you can place CCs in unclaimed space and in systems that your alliance claims sovereignty. You cannot place CCs in systems claimed by anybody else regardless of standings.
What, then, happens if sovereignty changes hands? If I'm working in a system my alliance claims, and sovereignty is taken by someone else, do all the existing PINs continue functioning?
from everything they have been saying there NO RESTRICTIONS as to where you can drop a CC apart from Jove space. if you can fly there and live long enough to scan and drop the CC you too can run PI in thoes systems
I can drop one
Well last night an alliance member went into a system that was claimed by the Singularity Bughunter Alliance (I think that was the name) and attempted to drop a CC. He got a message stating he could not place a CC because he was not a member of that alliance. He went next door to where our alliance claims space and of course could place a CC. The next system over was unclaimed and he could place CCs.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:54:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Avoida
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Avoida My question is in respect to sovereignty and PI. If you are out in 0.0 space you can place CCs in unclaimed space and in systems that your alliance claims sovereignty. You cannot place CCs in systems claimed by anybody else regardless of standings.
What, then, happens if sovereignty changes hands? If I'm working in a system my alliance claims, and sovereignty is taken by someone else, do all the existing PINs continue functioning?
from everything they have been saying there NO RESTRICTIONS as to where you can drop a CC apart from Jove space. if you can fly there and live long enough to scan and drop the CC you too can run PI in thoes systems
I can drop one
Well last night an alliance member went into a system that was claimed by the Singularity Bughunter Alliance (I think that was the name) and attempted to drop a CC. He got a message stating he could not place a CC because he was not a member of that alliance. He went next door to where our alliance claims space and of course could place a CC. The next system over was unclaimed and he could place CCs.
hmm they finaly realised they had a point about that being an exploit, good!
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:04:00 -
[126]
Please remove the excessive "Submit" button on every structure. Enough that we have it in the PI interface itself. Please make all the sliding pimpage an option - it became extremely annoying after second round over extractors. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lialem
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:35:00 -
[127]
I haven't searched all the schematics and materials but what i would like to see is, every planet type to have something unique, either a unique raw material or a schematic, that other planet types do not have. That way every planet will have its value and we wont end up with everyone using the same planet types when they try to do something with PI, and it gives more depth to PI also.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:39:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Lialem I haven't searched all the schematics and materials but what i would like to see is, every planet type to have something unique, either a unique raw material or a schematic, that other planet types do not have. That way every planet will have its value and we wont end up with everyone using the same planet types when they try to do something with PI, and it gives more depth to PI also.
That's exactly why they didn't do that in first place. And they was already forced to redistribute planets to better fulfill the market needs as they see them. Enough with this "it's waii too easszziii" whinage. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lialem
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:50:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 18:56:52 Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 18:55:56 [Its not matter of easyness, its matter of depth, right now its too shalow. Most planets can produce just about everything, planet type doesn't really matter. You can produce almost anything in a gas planet as you can produce in an earth like planet. That doesn't sound normal.
Planet statistics that show on planet info have absolutely no purpose. At least if planet type mattered then it would have been better...
You build stuff like you play a single player game. Other people building stuff on your planet dont affect you at all, only that the materials deplete faster. No possible planet pollution, no way to take the deposit so noone else can take it.
Planet scanning doesn't have any satellites etc to make it more realistic and possibly add more options.
And ofc atm no way to affect the PI infrastructure. You cant destroy it, you cant take it nothing, possibly this feature will come with dust, but i guess this will come after a year or more...
Structure placement has no real meaning, You just stack up every possible excrator you can on a deposit to earn more iskzz.
The whole PI expansion looks too shallow and half-complete, and probably not much will change in 2 weeks. You just build stuff and earn money. Doesn't look like it has any real purpose or depth except to satisfy all those people that wanted to do something with planets.
PI was a good opportunity to add a strategy game element to eve, by building structures on a planet, but ccp didn't grab the opportunity to expand it to a bigger playerbase.
Carebear and macroer paradise, just like the above poster, for me PI isnt as i was imagined it all those years that we talk about it.
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Jack bubu
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:57:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 18:51:38 Its not matter of easyness, its matter of depth, right now its too shalow. Most planets can produce just about everything, planet type doesn't really matter. You can produce almost anything in a gas planet as you can produce in an earth like planet. That doesn't sound normal.
Planet statistics that show on planet info have absolutely no purpose. At least if planet type mattered then it would have been better...
You build stuff like you play a single player game. Other people building stuff on your planet dont affect you at all, only that the materials deplete faster. No possible planet pollution, no way to take the deposit so noone else can take it.
Planet scanning doesn't have any satellites etc to make it more realistic and possibly add more options.
And ofc atm no way to affect the PI infrastructure. You cant destroy it, you cant take it nothing, possibly this feature will come with dust, but i guess this will come after a year or more...
The whole PI expansion looks too shallow and half-complete, and probably not much will change in 2 weeks. You just build stuff and earn money. Doesn't look like it has any real purpose or depth except to satisfy all those people that wanted to do something with planets.
Carebear and macroer paradise, just like the above poster.
You can produce anything everywhere? yeah sure all the processors can produce the same, but have tried to produce anything higher than tier 2 from the ressources from a single planet?
Its not possible on any of the planets i checked..
e.g on a Temperate planet the most advanced stuff i can produce is Industrial Explosive and thats the only tier 2 product possible from a Temperate planet only.
The whole process goes up to Tier 4.
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:59:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 19:03:45 By looking at the show info on schematics -> produced by pins, you can see that almost all schematics (both materials and commodities) can be build by all planet types.
Except around 5-6 that can only be build on barren or temperate.
Ofc there is the limit of CC powergrid and cpu but thats not a problem you just find the next planet in system and continue building stuff, planet type wont matter anyway.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.28 19:05:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 19:03:45 By looking at the show info on schematics -> produced by pins, you can see that almost all schematics (both materials and commodities) can be build by all planet types.
Except around 5-6 that can only be build on barren or temperate.
Ofc there is the limit of CC powergrid and cpu but thats not a problem you just find the next planet in system and continue building stuff, planet type wont matter anyway.
Importing materials for them will cost you 2 times more than what you could sell them for in market (now). If you don't have a clue, don't propose such ridiculous suggestions. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lialem
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Posted - 2010.04.28 19:08:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 19:09:57
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Importing materials for them will cost you 2 times more than what you could sell them for in market (now). If you don't have a clue, don't propose such ridiculous suggestions.
lol, you just throw words with no meaning, im not talking about if it will be worth doing PI. Ofc it will be, cause npc goods will probably stop being sold by npcs after tyrannis anyway. Im talking about depth of the expansion. Looks like YOU dont have a clue. First understand what other ppl propose and then reject, but i guess you are just used in the easy mode of other mmorpgs.
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.04.28 19:22:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 19:09:57
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Importing materials for them will cost you 2 times more than what you could sell them for in market (now). If you don't have a clue, don't propose such ridiculous suggestions.
lol, you just throw words with no meaning, im not talking about if it will be worth doing PI. Ofc it will be, cause npc goods will probably stop being sold by npcs after tyrannis anyway. Im talking about depth of the expansion. Looks like YOU dont have a clue. First understand what other ppl propose and then reject, but i guess you are just used in the easy mode of other mmorpgs.
I'm going to have to disagree, the system isn't finished, more will be added to it, which will add more depth, the last patch was already a big improvement, so I have high hopes for the next singularity patch.
Also, without importing things, you can't build anything of the higher tier stuff on a single planet, it's simply not possible, you need 2 or 3 different planets for T3 and T4, which is where you get the interesting stuff.
Also, if you want a decent output, you will HAVE to specialize your planet's harvests, meaning you can't extract all 6 types of raw materials at a decent rate to keep your processors happy. Not to mention that setting up such a large planetary network will mean lots of different locations where you harvest, so you need long lines of travel between PINS, which costs you lots of power and cpu, so even less room for processors and manufacture.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.04.28 19:47:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Space out your extractors properly and extract in a kinder and more profitable way.
well if your on a nice quiet planet with nothing but 3 day draws and someone shows up and plops down a nice ICS pattern of 1 day draws the resulting blue feild of death that you end up with is a nice benifit of your slow and easy draw. . .
Who is saying anything about 3 day draws? That's just inefficient.
What I am saying, and you don't seem to be getting, is that if your modus operandi is to place 12-15 extractors all on top of a single hotspot then you have no reason to complain if it depletes immediately or if a single competitor can come and **** things up for you.
Learn to spread out (using 5h extraction) and don't go for the hottest girl around the block that everyone is sticking their extractor into.
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.04.28 19:47:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/04/2010 19:53:47
Quote: you can't build anything of the higher tier stuff on a single planet
exactly, the whole problem is planet number, not planet type. You wont ever end up with a target like "ok now i have to find a plasma planet to continue my production chain", or "if i try and produce robotics on barren planet i will produce more than on a gas planet, so i'll try and find barren planet".
You just take the next planet in the system. Why not just extract the raws and continue production on pos then? wont big much of a difference.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.04.28 20:28:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 28/04/2010 20:29:06
Originally by: Lialem exactly, the whole problem is planet number, not planet type. You wont ever end up with a target like "ok now i have to find a plasma planet to continue my production chain", or "if i try and produce robotics on barren planet i will produce more than on a gas planet, so i'll try and find barren planet".
You just take the next planet in the system. Why not just extract the raws and continue production on pos then? wont big much of a difference.
I thought that kinda the point of the whole thing. You've got resources limited by planet type, but tier 4 production can be done in Jita 4-4 if you want because congestion doesn't matter if you're not extracting but simply producing.
Of course you can always make stuff more complex, like requiring a certain type of star and a planet at a certain distance to it to have a specific light level that your biotech production requires or something like that, but I doubt many people but you would actually want that.
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Sicardae Bad'ia
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Posted - 2010.04.28 20:55:00 -
[138]
Just for the sake of anyone who wasnt looking around, there are now POS BPO's seeded on market, the end result of all this PI stuff? yep, were gonna be building our own towers. |
PeHD0M
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Posted - 2010.04.28 21:40:00 -
[139]
Artwork is really poor. Can you color those PI structures? Lines and dots + a lot of clicking. Extremely boring and no immersion: - instant building - instant scan for resorces - doesn't matter where you build stuff on the planet
I don't think i will like that minigame..
And about new planets redistribution: was dissapointed a little, when i saw that my earth-like planet was changed with barren type. It's more realistic, but.. sad.
Still don't understand, why there are almost no clouds on the earth-like worlds. They are ugly without clouds.
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.04.28 22:07:00 -
[140]
Quote: Still don't understand, why there are almost no clouds on the earth-like worlds. They are ugly without clouds.
Because some ppl were complaining that they dont like clouds and that it obscures them from PI building.... And ofc CCP just implements all the stupid proposals and not the good ones. Like the change of exoplanetology to planetology...
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.04.28 22:56:00 -
[141]
Right now it seems really odd that we can create networks with no links to the PCC. I would think that a link to the PCC would be required for all structures in order to distribute CPU/PG.
If you setup (5) extractors feeding into a single storage silo which then feeds a factory. You're going to tear your hair out trying to then route all 5 bundles of the same raw material over to the factory because you can't just say "give the factory as much as it will take". Factories should be able to setup reverse ("pull") routes where they can pull from storage silos as needed in order to run a batch.
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.04.28 23:06:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob Right now it seems really odd that we can create networks with no links to the PCC. I would think that a link to the PCC would be required for all structures in order to distribute CPU/PG.
If you setup (5) extractors feeding into a single storage silo which then feeds a factory. You're going to tear your hair out trying to then route all 5 bundles of the same raw material over to the factory because you can't just say "give the factory as much as it will take". Factories should be able to setup reverse ("pull") routes where they can pull from storage silos as needed in order to run a batch.
umm you can.... link extractors to silo, wait 15 min, select reasorce in the storage and at the bottom you can create a route to the factory.
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Azran Zala
Fleet of the Damned
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Posted - 2010.04.28 23:48:00 -
[143]
Alrighty I been playing round with PI for a day, and it starting to grow on me.
a few things I notice though.
1) When I first tried destroying a basic command centre (in this case on a plasma) and then wished to place an elite one, it wouldnt let me, stateing that I cannot have more than 1 command centre on the plannet. (and I was pretty certain my last one was gone, cause I couldnt build anything. Loggin in again after the following downtime. It allowed me to place the new command centre.
2) Are Storm worlds the only one that have "Ionic solutions"? I was led to belive ice plannets have them to, but when I went to check an ice planet in meirakulf, it didnt have them as a scan option. (is there a list somewhere of what resources can be found where? or are some planets not garrenteed to have resources akin to their type?)
3) Theres the ability now to build almost any NPC seeded commodity I can think of (which is used in production of certain other usefull items) Except for 1, I cant seem to either find a blueprint for, nor the options to produce it planet side: "Electronic Parts" quite commonly used in the production of mobile warp distrupters.
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Frea Siv
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Posted - 2010.04.29 00:26:00 -
[144]
a question:
If I build a PCC on a planet, and do not connect it with any links at all-- am I able to export anything from my planet?
Can a launchpad also do export? I'm wondering as it seems that the location of your PCC really doesn't matter and you can just build your infrastructure seperately and wherever the hot spots are.
Up till now I thought everything had to be linked so PCC placement was important. IF PCC placement does not matter since it does not require a link that changes ALOT.
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Cecily Forthwright
Caldari Rusty Can Collectors
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Posted - 2010.04.29 00:33:00 -
[145]
I've noticed over the last 2 iterations that there has been a general complaining of a lack of difference between planet types. On a small scale (<5 planets) the noted lack of a need for a specific planet in a production chain is a disappointment on the complexity index. However, on a larger, corporation size scale(maybe 25-35 planets), I think that the current setup is a better fit. I am a big RTS fan and the current setup of resource types, production chains, cost, setup time and necessary 'clicks' is mere child's play. I'm currently working on 14 planets in 2 different systems and the time and energy needed to collaborate all the chains together is a a much better indicator, I believe, of the "idea/spirit" of this expansion. So all in all, I think this expansion has great promise and after every iteration of the test client it is much better then the previous. I find it funny the whole exoplanet vs planet tiff some ppl have.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.04.29 02:10:00 -
[146]
A suggestion for PI
A structure type called "Junction" or "Transfer Point".
All this thing does is act as a router. A player would plop it down on a planet and set its route for "nothing" to some other place. Then, anything routed to it, would simply be redirected to the Junction's route destination. It need not cost anything, or consume CPU or any of that business. It would simply be a way to manage items on the far side of a planet with out having to scroll around the planet all the time to create routes to far away places from a cluster of extractors. Think of it as an ergonomic aide.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Green Drag0n
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Posted - 2010.04.29 03:27:00 -
[147]
(possible) Bug Report:
Ok, so in the systems of Viesto, Sobaseki, Tsuguwa, and Nani, I've encountered a bug which is slight, but could give issues if it grows.
Without any real reason why, occasionally when I go to click "submit" for a new harvesting node, new structure, or even telling my harvester to get a new node, it locks up.
By locks up, I mean I become stuck in edit mode, (and thus my planet's production stops). Solutions I've used to work around it are simply hitting exit after waiting a minute (after hitting submit maybe twice). and it continues onward. Not sure if lag or client-side causes this, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
(as to why Im doing this in high sec, I wanted to get a good feel for the maximum carebear production. Will edit with layout pictures and estimates on production in a bit.) |
Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.04.29 04:24:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Azran Zala 1) When I first tried destroying a basic command centre (in this case on a plasma) and then wished to place an elite one, it wouldnt let me, stateing that I cannot have more than 1 command centre on the plannet. (and I was pretty certain my last one was gone, cause I couldnt build anything. Loggin in again after the following downtime. It allowed me to place the new command centre.
Good to know - I was locked out of a world earlier today after I wiped out a PCC and wanted to place a new one. Maybe the rule is simply going to be that you have to wait until after the next DT.
Quote: 2) Are Storm worlds the only one that have "Ionic solutions"? I was led to belive ice plannets have them to, but when I went to check an ice planet in meirakulf, it didnt have them as a scan option. (is there a list somewhere of what resources can be found where? or are some planets not garrenteed to have resources akin to their type?)
EVE University is working on a set of wiki pages for PI, now that you've asked, I'll have to go over to Sisi and take a look.
http://www.eve-ivy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Planetary_Interaction
(Still very rough draft of the pages - some information isn't known yet, other pages are still being written.)
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DeathEnsues
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Posted - 2010.04.29 04:24:00 -
[149]
Can you guys change the way you scan for minerlas or whatever its so hard at least for me to see the blue and green deposits sometimes. I know the planets look awesome but maybe when you scan change the planet to grey so its easier to see.
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.29 04:28:00 -
[150]
Originally by: DeathEnsues Can you guys change the way you scan for minerlas or whatever its so hard at least for me to see the blue and green deposits sometimes. I know the planets look awesome but maybe when you scan change the planet to grey so its easier to see.
Hint: the arrows on the sides of the color scale when scanning move. ---
DesuSigs |
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Vordel
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Posted - 2010.04.29 04:42:00 -
[151]
When checking the show info > schematics on the Basic Industry facility, Oxides is showing in schematics list. It should be in the Advanced Industry Facility not the Basic.
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.04.29 05:00:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Scrapyard Bob on 29/04/2010 05:02:33 The easiest way to deal with the planetary scanner slider is to shrink it down as narrow as you can, then manually drag it left/right to highlight the deposits.
Also, looks like the resources on Ice planets have changed - replaced ionic solution and base metals with planktic colonies and micro organisms.
So Planktic Colonies are no longer unique to Oceanic worlds. There are now only 3 resources that are limited to a single planet type. They are Reactive Gas (Gas planets), Autotrophs (Temperate) and Felsic Magma (Lava).
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.04.29 05:40:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 29/04/2010 05:41:14
Originally by: Vordel When checking the show info > schematics on the Basic Industry facility, Oxides is showing in schematics list. It should be in the Advanced Industry Facility not the Basic.
Already bug reported
Originally by: Lialem
Quote: you can't build anything of the higher tier stuff on a single planet
exactly, the whole problem is planet number, not planet type. You wont ever end up with a target like "ok now i have to find a plasma planet to continue my production chain", or "if i try and produce robotics on barren planet i will produce more than on a gas planet, so i'll try and find barren planet".
Autotrophs are found only on Temperate planets Reactive Gas are found only on Gas planets Felsic Magma are only found on Lava planets
Biomass are found only on Oceanic or Ice planets Non-CS Crystals are found only on Lava or Plasma planets Ionic Solutions are found only on Gas or Storm planets Noble Metals are found only on Plasma or Barren planets Complex Organisms are found only on Temperate or Oceanic planets
Now try to make some (tier6) high-tech stuff like Integrity Response Drone and you will see that you will need 6 different planets at least to make that stuff.
In no way you can make everything everywhere, that is just not an option.
Originally by: Lialem You just take the next planet in the system. Why not just extract the raws and continue production on pos then? wont big much of a difference.
It is a BIG difference. If you want to export 120.000 (tier1) raw materials from one world (to sell it on market or to use it on some other planet) you would need to pay 1.8m isk export tax.
If you react the raw materials into (tier2) advanced stuff and export this then, you only need to export 400 units and thus you pay only 6000 isk tax.
It would be pretty silly to export the raw stuff.
Yes, I agree that PI currently lacks lots and lots of stuff. But for the first time I feel that they are really on the right track and things are going to become much better. |
DeathEnsues
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Posted - 2010.04.29 06:39:00 -
[154]
Edited by: DeathEnsues on 29/04/2010 06:39:28
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob Edited by: Scrapyard Bob on 29/04/2010 05:02:33 The easiest way to deal with the planetary scanner slider is to shrink it down as narrow as you can, then manually drag it left/right to highlight the deposits.
I can't get the slider to work. When I try to click on it and move it it seems to move the bar around not the slider. I will have another go at it but the few times I have i can't get it to work. But still it would be hard for me to see anyway. I know there would be a few colour blind people out there who play too that would benefit on making it a bit easier to see the colours or making the planet grey jsut while scanning.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.04.29 07:04:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Lialem You just take the next planet in the system. Why not just extract the raws and continue production on pos then? wont big much of a difference.
It is a BIG difference. If you want to export 120.000 (tier1) raw materials from one world (to sell it on market or to use it on some other planet) you would need to pay 1.8m isk export tax.
If you react the raw materials into (tier2) advanced stuff and export this then, you only need to export 400 units and thus you pay only 6000 isk tax.
The 120.000 is tier 0, and only a complete ****** would want to export that.
Exporting/importing tier 1 as opposed to tier 2 will only be a 2-5 times more expensive.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.29 07:59:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 29/04/2010 08:04:48
Last round of feedback from me. Ok, many things are significantly better in V4 that it's decently playable. Routing and various information/status display has been fixed, albeit limited to the most basic needed for a playable game. Screen graphics fps seems not greatly affected when you zoom in close, afaics - an noticeable improvement from before.
Issues:
- PIN info windows transparency/color and bright planet backgrounds make it very difficult to read anything when you're zoomed in planet view. There are various ways to fix this, from making the info windows opaque with theme matching background or add the ability to strip the planet's skin to be replaced with a bright white circle on generic black
- Although it has been improved from V2 onwards, the camera control while you're in planet view still feels clunky - this is especially more apparent with large gas planet (as the focal length is longer and the angle gets lower). The IDEAL way to navigate a planet is the ability to move the camera across all parts of the planet while maintaining a constant 90 degree overhead view at all elevations. They're plenty of good examples out there, so the question falls to whether you're trying to re-invent the wheel or you cba to properly polish an core aspect of gameplay UI, never mind the legacy limitations
- Ok, this one's been listed ever since V1. By the gods, someone out there is either super dense or too stubborn in defending their version of what appear to be simple "elegance" of the PIN interface at the cost of usability. I (and I'm guessing plenty of other players) DO NOT WANT to perform MULTIPLE CLICKS when trying to check on some info or whatnots for each PIN. Let me give an example, I want to verify all the routing info for all my 10 extractors, thats 2 move-clicks each (select PIN and then select route) = 20 move-clicks total. Bear in mind one very important point word from the previous equation - MOVE. Please make the <insert swear words> window drop AND tab selected PERSISTENT so that all I need to do is move-click once on the PIN, and voila! I have my info.
- Closely related to the above point, the lack of a single summary page for a single planet's PIN processes/amount/cycle time/ etc etc. has been mentioned time an again across V1-V3. Where is it?
- Again, this has been mentioned from the early V1-V2 feedback. Extractor materials routing stays static once it's routed. The problem here is that the extractor materials output is a variable number. There will be scenarios where you may need to constantly adjust the routing to match the output.
One way to solve this (so it affects all PINs, not just extractors) is to create a tickbox in routing so that the volume that it routes = output volume or incoming volume. The first step towards dynamic routing. Expand the scope further by being able to assign routing ratio for split routing, no matter what volume is output/incoming, the amount routed will always maintain the same ratio e.g. 5000 water -> 2500/2500 routed to two diferent places in 50:50 ratio.
- Routing badly needs an Edit button. Deleting route and re-routing contributes to too many senseless clicks.
... tbc after SISI goes up |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.29 10:55:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 29/04/2010 11:11:17 ... cont
- The link upgrade window is a massive design irony - you get Current, Upgrade, Change, Usage rows with Capacity, CPU and Power columns. Good grief, please simplify this and organize them in a coherent fashion unless you want many a player's eyes glazing over asking : CCP! wtf is this?
- It's a pain in the ass to balance storage unit re-routes (to multiple processors) as the amount number must match the amount in storage. This leads to having players twiddle their thumbs for 15mins or more just to get the proper amount routed to avoid having supply under capacity when one processor is full and starts working - while the other(s) are filling up.
- I would prefer a mouse over that shows PG and CPU of a PIN when running my mouse through the PIN build selection, rather than having to do a Show Info on the each of the structure.
- The PI materials and production tiers are too complex for Show Info referrals. I would suggest building an ingame reference chart, something that looks similarly to the current Certificate interface that allows quick and coherent lookup for players to use. If you want wide audience accessibility, this is one of things that should have been done from the start
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.04.29 11:12:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 29/04/2010 11:11:17
- It's a pain in the ass to balance storage unit re-routes (to multiple processors) as the amount number must match the amount in storage. This leads to having players twiddle their thumbs for 15mins or more just to get the proper amount routed to avoid having supply under capacity when one processor is full and starts working - while the other(s) are filling up.
This is a real pain
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Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.29 11:26:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Avoida My question is in respect to sovereignty and PI. If you are out in 0.0 space you can place CCs in unclaimed space and in systems that your alliance claims sovereignty. You cannot place CCs in systems claimed by anybody else regardless of standings.
What, then, happens if sovereignty changes hands? If I'm working in a system my alliance claims, and sovereignty is taken by someone else, do all the existing PINs continue functioning?
from everything they have been saying there NO RESTRICTIONS as to where you can drop a CC apart from Jove space. if you can fly there and live long enough to scan and drop the CC you too can run PI in thoes systems
Well only restriction you have so far is the approx of 8.6 LY (max skills on SiSi) from your current station to interact with your planets.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.04.29 12:46:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Camios
Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 29/04/2010 11:11:17
- It's a pain in the ass to balance storage unit re-routes (to multiple processors) as the amount number must match the amount in storage. This leads to having players twiddle their thumbs for 15mins or more just to get the proper amount routed to avoid having supply under capacity when one processor is full and starts working - while the other(s) are filling up.
This is a real pain
This needs to be fixed by either allowing you to re-route from the route section, or all items that are routed to a storage facility will show up even if there's none of them there at that time.
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Friedman
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.29 13:11:00 -
[161]
Has anybody already tested what happens to already existing planetary structures if the sov of a system changes?
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2010.04.29 13:50:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 29/04/2010 13:52:08 Some feedback:
1) The maximum CPU of the command center seems too high given the current structures requirements. While the command centers outputs more CPU than power (I tested that on advanced command centers which are what most non-fulltime industrialist might want to use), the only structures that need more CPU than power with the current setup are the high-tech processors and the landing pads. But currently I can't see any reason to keep more than one landing pad, and also the high-tech processors require so much powergrid backbone to produce the input materials, that it's a bit senseless to keep so many of them that would end up to saturate the CPU.
2) I don't know if it's a bug, but at the moment there are two types of "customs office" structure. Some are named "Customs office", others are named "cargo link". They seem to share the same functionalities. (just to stay on the safe side: BR 94811).
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.04.29 14:18:00 -
[163]
There definitely needs to be a summary page. Specifics...
- Extractors. We need to be able to see, at a glance, what extractors are planted and what type. Volumes per cycle are also needed and when the extraction will normally end. There should be an icon indicating whether the output is routed or not along with what percentage of the output has been routed. Or just tell us what percentage of the current output has been routed somewhere.
- Factories. We need to be able to see a list of what factories are running, what schematic is loaded, % of materials needed to start a cycle, whether a cycle is running, and what percentage of the output has been routed.
- Storage. Fairly simple as we need to see the amount of space used. We should also get an icon indicating whether there are routes associated with that storage PIN or not.
...
Random thoughts:
- PI interface windows should only be transparent when pinned, otherwise they should match the colors of the user's UI.
- There needs to be a "hide all non-planetary windows" button. Or we need to be able to move the left-hand UI window to a more suitable location.
- We need to be able to name our colonies and have those names show up on the screen as well as in the Sci and Tech UI window. Those names should be like ship-names, visible to the world.
- There needs to be a way to cycle extractors early, just like you can cycle mining lasers early, without having to destroy and then rebuild the extractor.
- I'm really fond of changing the scan for deposits from a four-choice list into a slider where you can pick anything from 2 hours to 7 days. With 7 days being 99% of available materials down to the current super-poor inefficiency of the shorter cycle times. Otherwise, the 24h timer needs to be changed to 22h and the 96h timer needs to be changed to 90 hours. That way those of us with real-life schedules won't get pushed back later and later into the wee hours of the night due to the 24h cycle.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.29 14:22:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 29/04/2010 14:22:15 Please allow partial Expedit Tranfer and partial laucn into space
My issue is simple. For example i extract Gold, and i partially process it on same planet, but for example i have not enough processors to process it all, so i want some gold to be sent into space for sale or to process it on other planet, but i want to leave some spare gold on planet too, because processors are finishing their cycles and i want that spare gold be injected into them. But atm I can transfer everything or nothing, that no so good... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.29 15:43:00 -
[165]
I'm still really confused as to how to produce anything.
I created a heavy metal extractor - clicked survey, and chose one of the choices. By the way, why do we have multiple choices after surveying?? This doesn't make sense to me. Also, can I purchase a mobile survey unit to survey areas before I build an extractor?
If we have a mobile survey unit, you can move it around, and after surveying it can give you a choice to build an extractor! Say there are multiple mineral deposits of various types, you can choose which one has the best return and THEN build your extractor. Bada-bing!
Ok - moving along. Then I try to build a processor, but each processor says I don't have the correct materials to route from the heavy metals extractor. WTF?? This needs to be explained and simplified.
Currently I have 2 extractors, all routed back to the command center because I don't know what else to do with them.
I'm on a lava planet btw.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.29 15:47:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob - There needs to be a "hide all non-planetary windows" button. Or we need to be able to move the left-hand UI window to a more suitable location.
There already is, in a sense. Hit CTRL+TAB once. The first option on that menu is "minimize all windows". You may be able to map it directly to a shortcut also. It's also reversible.
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Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.29 16:04:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Jim Luc I'm still really confused as to how to produce anything.
I created a heavy metal extractor - clicked survey, and chose one of the choices. By the way, why do we have multiple choices after surveying?? This doesn't make sense to me. Also, can I purchase a mobile survey unit to survey areas before I build an extractor?
If you look closer, you'll notice that the different extraction rates result in different depletion timers. You can choose to extract very quickly but the result is the deposit depletes very quickly. You can choose a lower extraction rate which takes more time but also nets far more materials in the long run.
As for surveying an area, use the sliders above the material filters to see the hotspots for the various materials. You'll see exactly where the various materials are located. Put the extractors for the specific material on those locations and you're done.
Originally by: Jim Luc Ok - moving along. Then I try to build a processor, but each processor says I don't have the correct materials to route from the heavy metals extractor. WTF?? This needs to be explained and simplified.
If your processor says it needs Heavy Metals, you need to place an extractor that is gathering Heavy Metals and route it's output to the processor. Once the processor has the requisite 6,000 units present (and the proper schematic chosen), it will make 20 Toxic Metals.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.29 17:23:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 29/04/2010 17:25:45
Originally by: Sturmwolke The IDEAL way to navigate a planet is the ability to move the camera across all parts of the planet while maintaining a constant 90 degree overhead view at all elevations.
Largely support this. Or, more precisely, with distinctive lack of presentation, it is the only way to deal with the issue.
Quote: this one's been listed ever since V1. By the gods, someone out there is either super dense or too stubborn in defending their version of what appear to be simple "elegance" of the PIN interface at the cost of usability. I (and I'm guessing plenty of other players) DO NOT WANT to perform MULTIPLE CLICKS when trying to check on some info or whatnots for each PIN. Let me give an example, I want to verify all the routing info for all my 10 extractors, thats 2 move-clicks each (select PIN and then select route) = 20 move-clicks total. Bear in mind one very important point word from the previous equation - MOVE. Please make the <insert swear words> window drop AND tab selected PERSISTENT so that all I need to do is move-click once on the PIN, and voila! I have my info.
Worse than that, the wait time while the info window roll down... I know better solution. PLACE THE DAMNED "It's routed!" INDICATOR in main summary block.
Quote: Again, this has been mentioned from the early V1-V2 feedback. Extractor materials routing stays static once it's routed. The problem here is that the extractor materials output is a variable number. There will be scenarios where you may need to constantly adjust the routing to match the output.
Eh? Just remove routing amount from PINS without inner capacity (Extractors, factories). Ergo, problem solved for the time being.
Quote: Expand the scope further by being able to assign routing ratio for split routing, no matter what volume is output/incoming, the amount routed will always maintain the same ratio e.g. 5000 water -> 2500/2500 routed to two diferent places in 50:50 ratio.
Can anyone give me real-world scenario, where you would want to split routing?
Quote: Routing badly needs an Edit button. Deleting route and re-routing contributes to too many senseless clicks.
Or just remove the need for editing? THAT would be better option for everyone. Quote: Need an ability to stop extractors mid-work to re-scan and select different deposit volumes.
Surely. Right now the only way is to blow extractor and build new. Costly endeavor... Quote: This should have been fixed during it's inception. Deposit scanning colors are not EXPLICITLY displayed to indicate which colors correspond to higher concentrations. It wasn't until I read CCP's Tyrannis interview on one of the game website that I was definitely sure that red is higher. Working on implied assumptions that left-to-right denotes low-to-high concentrations is bad design as not all players will intrepret it as such
Now, when you said this, I'm really unsure, if "red=high" is what CCP had in mind. Anyone could enlighen us on the matter?
On a separate note, the information presentation on extractor PINs is inconsistent at best. I see current batch timing, my eyes moving down to find when the resource depletes... but it's not there. It's (surprize!) on the other side... Why? If you put information in columns, make measurement units matching, please. http://img717.imageshack.us/i/20100429171211.jpg/ -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Adoria Aeternitas
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Posted - 2010.04.29 18:10:00 -
[169]
Gameplay concerns of PI:
Currently you have to setup massive amounts of links and routes by hand over and over again to overexploit all of your 6 planets. - this is incredibly "click-intensive" because you need to setup like 180 connections every 30 minutes.
You devs have to cut down the needed clicks and mouse movements to deploy and destroy great amounts of extractors.
Players should be able to select many extractors at once by doubleclicking a pin and then link and route all at once to a storage. Selecting multiple pins with "shift"+"leftclick" would be nice too.
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Cyndain
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Posted - 2010.04.29 18:43:00 -
[170]
This may have been brought up previously, and if so please consider this me throwing my hat in with that comment.
It is difficult to manage routing resources from a warehouse to multiple processors. Lets say you have 8 extractors on a planet, all routed to one warehouse. You want to supply 4 processors with materials. Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse, and create the rout OUT to the processor. You have to do this 8 times, one for each extractor, leaving you with a mess in the routes window (which I couldnt resize by the way).
If I create a partial amount route, there is nothing that I could see to distinquish the original source in from the route out. I am just left with the total amount routed in, and a partial amount routed out.
Maybe I missing a way to combine multiple IN routes into a total amount? IE I have 4 heavy metal extractors, extracting 1900, 1875, 1240 and 1500 per cycle. I'd like to have the option to create a route out based on 6515 resouces instead of creating a seperate route for each.
Hope this comment is clear- a bit difficult to explain.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.29 18:43:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 29/04/2010 18:52:39
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Quote: Again, this has been mentioned from the early V1-V2 feedback. Extractor materials routing stays static once it's routed. The problem here is that the extractor materials output is a variable number. There will be scenarios where you may need to constantly adjust the routing to match the output.
Eh? Just remove routing amount from PINS without inner capacity (Extractors, factories). Ergo, problem solved for the time being.
Actually, you don't even need to remove the old routing, you just need to route the excess output from extractors (if it exceeds your previous amount routed). Another trick to freeze the largest amount routed from extractors, is by selecting the 15mins deposits when you first start and then switching to longer cycle periods.
All in all, these are all tricks/work arounds. They do not represent an actual core fix to the mechanics i.e. it's half-baked
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Quote: Expand the scope further by being able to assign routing ratio for split routing, no matter what volume is output/incoming, the amount routed will always maintain the same ratio e.g. 5000 water -> 2500/2500 routed to two diferent places in 50:50 ratio.
Can anyone give me real-world scenario, where you would want to split routing?
Hmmm .. I think the wording needs a revision. The original context is not to literally "split" routing. What is meant is to suggest a ratio based multiple routing that makes it less painful in balancing the storage unit re-routes to multiple processors.
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Now, when you said this, I'm really unsure, if "red=high" is what CCP had in mind. Anyone could enlighen us on the matter?
See IGN preview - http://pc.ign.com/articles/108/1085632p1.html Lookup the last paragraph.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.29 18:57:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Avoida If your processor says it needs Heavy Metals, you need to place an extractor that is gathering Heavy Metals and route it's output to the processor. Once the processor has the requisite 6,000 units present (and the proper schematic chosen), it will make 20 Toxic Metals.
Perhaps there aren't currently processors that need heavy metals or anything that is produced on the Lava planet yet.
This should still be explained more clearly - which you can fix quite easily:
When a processor is selected from the list of processors, expand the area to the right listing all materials it can take in, and what it produces.
Currently I have no idea what builds what until it's been built and I realize I have no use for it whatsoever.
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PeHD0M
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Posted - 2010.04.29 19:10:00 -
[173]
Edited by: PeHD0M on 29/04/2010 19:22:50 Temperate planets need more clouds.
Btw, imo the best planetary interaction was in "Spore".
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.29 19:30:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Adoria Aeternitas Gameplay concerns of PI:
Currently you have to setup massive amounts of links and routes by hand over and over again
You don't need to do that "over and over again" - it's one-time task, unless you have more money to spend, than you want to create from a colony. If you didn't noticed, building stuff, while instant, cost a considerable amount of ISK.
Originally by: Cyndain Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse
"in" without "to". Select resource that actually present, rather than one routed to storage. Preferably, select resource with present amount exceed the capacity of a destination.
Quote: If I create a partial amount route, there is nothing that I could see to distinquish the original source in from the route out.
That's because there's nothing to see, that's why you don't see anything. Your assumption, that incoming and outgoing routes are depends on eachother is not true.
Originally by: Sturmwolke Another trick to freeze the largest amount routed from extractors, is by selecting the 15mins deposits when you first start and then switching to longer cycle periods.
That's how i'm doing it, but as you can imagine, it's not fail(fool...)-proof.
Quote: All in all, these are all tricks/work arounds. They do not represent an actual core fix to the mechanics i.e. it's half-baked
Exactly. I think my suggestion would be "the fix", though.
Quote:
Quote: Can anyone give me real-world scenario, where you would want to split routing?
Hmmm .. I think the wording needs a revision. The original context is not to literally "split" routing. What is meant is to suggest a ratio based multiple routing that makes it less painful in balancing the storage unit re-routes to multiple processors.
I was meaning exactly this. Real example, where'd you need to route less than what processor could accept? My imagination failing at this.
P.S. I suggest you remove the [Edited by] lines from your posts, when you reedit them - they take up much space and cutting your total chars count to the point, where you or one replying to you loosing part of your post. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.29 19:35:00 -
[175]
Some random stuff:
1. Facilities work without link to command center, direct or through other pins. Is this intended? 2. Routes desperately need "move as much as possible" option. 3. It would be nice to have option to set max TOTAL amount (or number of cycles) of material to be transferred by route. 4. And ability to withdraw ingredients from processor back to storage, in case you want to decommission it or change schematics. 5. Storage facilities need option to set up route, even if they don't have material for processor. Waiting for cycle to finish is annoying.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Sicardae Bad'ia
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Posted - 2010.04.29 19:44:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Lumy Some random stuff:
1. Facilities work without link to command center, direct or through other pins. Is this intended? 2. Routes desperately need "move as much as possible" option. 3. It would be nice to have option to set max TOTAL amount (or number of cycles) of material to be transferred by route. 4. And ability to withdraw ingredients from processor back to storage, in case you want to decommission it or change schematics. 5. Storage facilities need option to set up route, even if they don't have material for processor. Waiting for cycle to finish is annoying.
1. The onus is on the player to connect it to the PCC -somewhere- else you've no way of getting your stuff offworld. 2. This seems to be the case, ive not yet noticed a route carrying less than the max output, even when i've changed resource timers 3. You'd have to do this by division of the route, though if your supply line on planet isn't huge, the warehouse should just wind up feeding the factory as its able to take stuff in. 4. Kill the route, wait for the factory to finish, then knock it down. 5. Route the material from the extractor to the warehouse, now, go to the warehouse, and click on the 'routes' button, second from the right. Take your incoming mats, and go down and click route, you can now shuffle them directly to the factory without any mats being present yet.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.29 20:09:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Tonto Auri I was meaning exactly this. Real example, where'd you need to route less than what processor could accept? My imagination failing at this.
Ah, I see what you mean. The basic idea behind ratio based routing (from the storage unit) is to mitigate the variable amount of incoming materials from the extractors and routing them to processors based on the ratio preference. What this basically means is that the primary processor(s) will almost always run at full production, while the secondary processor(s) are designed to take up any variable excess output from the extractors.
As far as I can tell, the current routing from storage > multiple processors, the preference seems to be random. This may result in all the processors idling while waiting their turn to be filled up.
The above "ratio" suggestion, I must admit is fairly crude, there are a few other ways that I can think of to tackle variable supply issue and assigning processor preference.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.29 20:15:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Sicardae Bad'ia 1. The onus is on the player to connect it to the PCC -somewhere- else you've no way of getting your stuff offworld.
Other than, you know, the facility designed specifically for getting stuff on/off-world: the launch pad.
So no, I see no need at all to connect your command center to anything.
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Sicardae Bad'ia
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Posted - 2010.04.29 20:32:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Sicardae Bad'ia 1. The onus is on the player to connect it to the PCC -somewhere- else you've no way of getting your stuff offworld.
Other than, you know, the facility designed specifically for getting stuff on/off-world: the launch pad.
So no, I see no need at all to connect your command center to anything.
The cost of a launch pad, in both isk and powergrid consumed is exhorbitant compared to running a link of some modest length from the production tree to the PCC. Also, the sci&indy window doesnt count any facilities not tied to the PCC in the count summary, so the fact that they are currently working may be a short lived oversight.
Although if they DONT fix it, and we CANT move the PCC's around to squat on different resources, then yeah, dropping launch pads for local bits and bobs on the planet might be the way to go. All of this is depending on what the higher end pcc's wind up going for
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.29 20:34:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Cyndain It is difficult to manage routing resources from a warehouse to multiple processors. Lets say you have 8 extractors on a planet, all routed to one warehouse. You want to supply 4 processors with materials. Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse, and create the rout OUT to the processor. You have to do this 8 times, one for each extractor, leaving you with a mess in the routes window (which I couldnt resize by the way).
You create 8 routes into storage (1 per extractor), and 4 routes to the processor (1 per processor). Wait until there is enough stuff in storage for 1 processor before routing it to processors.
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Cyndain
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Posted - 2010.04.29 20:37:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Cyndain Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse
"in" without "to". Select resource that actually present, rather than one routed to storage. Preferably, select resource with present amount exceed the capacity of a destination.
Quote: If I create a partial amount route, there is nothing that I could see to distinquish the original source in from the route out.
That's because there's nothing to see, that's why you don't see anything. Your assumption, that incoming and outgoing routes are depends on eachother is not true.
Ahh Ok, I see what you mean there, however, it is entirly possible to set up routes before any resource enters your warehouse. I select an IN route, and create an OUT route based on that number. I will have to play around with it a bit more once I get home from work..
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.29 21:25:00 -
[182]
It seems that the routes auto adjust now,
the reason for sending less than the max to a point is in case your forgoing useing storage and sending directly to a given processor so if you have say 5 extractors drawing and want to feed say 3 processors you can say ok E 1 goes to P1 E2 gets split between P1 and P2 E3 goes to P2 E4 is split between P2 and P3 E5 goes entirely to P3
oh look I have enough to build an extra extractor, so that one will be spit between the P1 2 and 3 because they have extra capacity
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Xearal
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Posted - 2010.04.29 21:52:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: Cyndain It is difficult to manage routing resources from a warehouse to multiple processors. Lets say you have 8 extractors on a planet, all routed to one warehouse. You want to supply 4 processors with materials. Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse, and create the rout OUT to the processor. You have to do this 8 times, one for each extractor, leaving you with a mess in the routes window (which I couldnt resize by the way).
You create 8 routes into storage (1 per extractor), and 4 routes to the processor (1 per processor). Wait until there is enough stuff in storage for 1 processor before routing it to processors.
The problem here is that you have to wait 15 minutes to get some stuff into your processor. A consolidated view of what comes in and goes out of a storage facility would be very nice. a bit like the window for expidited transfers. So you can see on one side a list of what goes in, and howmuch, howmuch is stored in the middle, and what goes out on a view on the right.
Some more suggestions: - The ability to route a fixed amount would be nice too, you can expidate transfer, but then you already have to have the materials in stock, routing a fixed future amount would be usefull for planning ahead. so I can say.. do 2 runs of making toxic metals, while my store of base metals builds up, then do 2 runs of reactive metals, etc. without losing materials if I chance schematics or decomission a processor.
- A possibility to upgrade your command center without losing the whole colony.
- When you hover over a pin or link, see what is routed which way, or what is produced.
- Make all windows resizable and conform to the normal UI windows for the rest of the game. Right now they're a pain to see everything properly.
- Instead of buying and decommissioning the whole installations, maybe it would also be a nice idea to have these as actual items you have to either send down and deploy, or buy once and deploy. So you can buy an extractor for say, 140.000 ISK, and deploy it for another 10.000 ISK. When the place it's been put is empty, instead of the decomission, simply repack it, and deploy at another location for 10.000 ISK. While it's not deployed, it would take up room ofcourse in a storage facility or in your PCC.
- An overview system for the various tiers of production and their material costs. Like the certificates view, so if you want to build wetware mainframes for instance, you get a breakdown of what you need to make one, and what you need to make the stuff to make it etc.. down to the base materials. Right now, everyone and their dog that has any excel skills is making sheets for this, i've seen and downloaded a whole bunch, some good, some less good, I've done a little tinkering myself as well, having this in the game would be very usefull, as it will make it a little easier for newbies to see what they want to and can do. It wouldn't matter much to more experienced players, since if it didn't exist in the game, they'd have such a reporting tool outside the game, either build as an excel sheet, or some application.
- An API on what your planets are doing would be nice too, giving full information on what everythign is doing ( and how it's connected and routed, so you can make proper reporting tools for planetary production, something that is non-existant in the current system, but would take a LOT of time to do properly, I'm working on writing a reporting design myself for it, and it is quite a project )
- Planetary reentry modules instead of customs offices, so you can send stuff down to any planet by orbitting it and launching some kind of rocket carrying your goods to your launchpad. (tbc in next post.. ;))
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Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.29 21:56:00 -
[184]
@Sicardae Bad'ia
1. The problem what I see: You can build several (lets say 3) groups of Storage + Extractor + Basic Processor at any distance of command center (with Spaceport and Advanced Processor). You'll have to have reserve CPU/Powergrid to single (longest) Spaceport - Storage link. Wait for Storage to partially fill with materials, then create new link, expedite to Spaceport, destroy link, repeat. Creating link cost nothing. Long link can easily consume 3000MW on large planets. Storage consume only 600MW, and can easily hold several days worth of production of 2nd tier materials. (You'll probably have to set new deposit anyway)
2. Doesn't seem to be true. Test case: Storage filled with materials. Outgoing route to basic processor at 1000/6000. Fills only 1000 per tick. But I'll test this with extractor, just in case.
3 and 4. Imagine: You've got 6h worth of constant production chain A1 -> A2 and 7h of chain B1 -> B2. You plant to produce A2 + B2 -> AB3 during night (8h or later). After that you plant to change A2 + B2 -> AB3 to something else. The problem is: when you wake up, processor is full B2, but you've got no A2. Your only option is a) waste B2 b) get some units of A2 and wait a cycle.
5. In this case there is a workaround. But imagine you've got several routes from extractors and outgoing to single processor. Creating single route is much more convenient that several.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Xearal
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Posted - 2010.04.29 22:01:00 -
[185]
- Planetary reentry modules The office is a nice idea, but it's THE place for suicide ganking, and piracy. While I can see the fun in a little danger from pirates, I find it a little odd that a customs office is not guarded, also you pay through the nose for sending large amounts down to the planet with it. A planetary reentry module would be an interesting addition I think. You deploy the module from your cargo, fill it up with your goods from the cargo, then order it to descend. It will take you some time to do this, giving pirates a chance to nab you and intercept your goods, and it would be a good alternative for planets that don't have a customs office. Ofcourse this module needs to be built/bought and is not reusable so it will still cost you money to send stuff down just like in the customs office. Maybe a combination of roid stuff for the ship, and things like rocket fuel to make? The office could still be used ofcourse, but have gun emplacements around it, to scare of would be pirates and gankers, so it's 'safer', but also probably more expensive than the module and a good way for newbies to do things. Such a module would also tie in with having to build/buy buildings for the place in space stations, and sending them down.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.29 22:11:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 29/04/2010 22:12:43
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Tonto Auri I was meaning exactly this. Real example, where'd you need to route less than what processor could accept? My imagination failing at this.
Ah, I see what you mean. The basic idea behind ratio based routing (from the storage unit) is to mitigate the variable amount of incoming materials from the extractors and routing them to processors
"processors" is what I can't imagine. Example, please? The only remotely possible example of this could be is if i'm running a Stage2+ colony, which is easily solved by building one more storage in addition to the launchpad and splitting goods according to my building plan. I mean, i'd really need more storage space, if I want my processors work any reasonable amount of time without intervention. There's no need to for additional functionality, when issue could be solved by clever management.
Originally by: Cyndain Ahh Ok, I see what you mean there, however, it is entirly possible to set up routes before any resource enters your warehouse. I select an IN route, and create an OUT route based on that number. I will have to play around with it a bit more once I get home from work..
I know, what you mean, but honestly, it's not the best way of doing this. Rather, it's an imposed restriction from bogus realization. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
JTK Fotheringham
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Posted - 2010.04.29 23:07:00 -
[187]
So, I've been running a colony on Aclan II for a couple of days. Today, "There is a problem accessing Aclan II". All other planets in local are fine to access. Anyone else having this problem?
Also, I had a whole bunch of bug reports when I started the client. Repair tool fixed them, but there was a windows patch today... not sure if there were any conflicts.
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suun Leeh
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Posted - 2010.04.29 23:07:00 -
[188]
I love the planetary interaction with the exception of one thing. There is no way to move a item after you place it. The does not make sense. There needs to be a way to move a extractor or any of the other items after being placed. I mean we have to pay isk to create them and do not get a refund when we decommission them.
Please make this change.
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.04.30 00:05:00 -
[189]
Originally by: suun Leeh I love the planetary interaction with the exception of one thing. There is no way to move a item after you place it. The does not make sense. There needs to be a way to move a extractor or any of the other items after being placed. I mean we have to pay isk to create them and do not get a refund when we decommission them.
Please make this change.
I don't get your reasoning here. Are you saying that after you built a static structure such as an extractor (with possibly a big friggin' hole drilled into the planets crust) it should "just" be a matter of moving that structure about as you see fit? If anything that should be a lot more expensive than just putting explosives under the one you have and setting up a new one someplace else. It's not like we just move our extraction business in real life whenever we run into a snag. All the abandoned hardware around the globe is proof of that.
I'd say keep it as it is because it's simpler in a development sense and it makes people think before just setting up a strip mining operation that would last 30 minutes and cost them twice as much to set up than they would make off the stuff they extracted.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.04.30 00:44:00 -
[190]
Ok sooo... I know I have a few planets seeded with structures. I kinda have an idea on what systems they are in. Is there a quick and easy way to figure out where my stuff is? Is there an asset tab that shows structures on planet (like assets in space) or a journal tab that points out what planets you have occupied? ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.30 01:06:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Ok sooo... I know I have a few planets seeded with structures. I kinda have an idea on what systems they are in. Is there a quick and easy way to figure out where my stuff is? Is there an asset tab that shows structures on planet (like assets in space) or a journal tab that points out what planets you have occupied?
Yeah there is...
Science & Industry... In Planets tab... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Sierra Astrome
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Posted - 2010.04.30 01:10:00 -
[192]
Ok, here we go...
I was looking forward to PI since a very long time, current PI looked like it had potential in the beginning but after spending 1 night on it, it totally turned me off.
Now, I know that it's hardly half way done, and there will be more after the expansion, and I am very aware of the challenges and difficulties of game developing because I was training to be a game developer myself.
here is how it goes:
1- it's an OCEAN of clicking the same things, make 70 pins over a few planets, then survey/link/route every single time, it's too cumbersome, boring and irritating.
suggestion: a- simplify the clicking, and let the player be able to group extractors (e.g all 10 extractors harvesting bla bla gas grouped together (actual linking?), so select 1 extractor and all the others copy it. different numbers for resources per cycle? not a problem, the player should see the sum of the total of all extractors per cycle/duration from the main extractor. if someone wants different time intervals they can make different groups.
b- make the time intervals at least double the current ones, current time intervals are too short, even 24 hours is short, the amount of clicking to re-extract alone is a torture.
c- make levels of extractors, like L2 extractor = equivalent of 2x L1 extractor, L5/L10 extractor = equivalent of 5/10 L1 extractor, this way the player doesn't have to put 30 extractors and have to survey/link/route 30 times every 30 mins or 24 hours.
2- it is totally un-engaging, the player is just putting circles on a bigger circle, like 5 years old games, this is very disappointing and doesn't fit the standards of eve, in fact there is hardly any game play in it. with POS the player at least has solid visual representations of what we're doing, they see the modules, they move to access them and so on.
Suggestions: a- Minimum is to replace the circles with the actual models, real textured models like other objects in eve.
b- If you want to make it an engaging experience then the players must be able to sense the environment and interact with and within it! I am aware that eve doesn't contain planet environments, however, I believe environments are developed in DUST 514, it might be worth some consideration or thought.
The environments that players colonize must be touchable, they must land on the colony in order to manage it, see the real environment of the planet, decide there where to place different structures, and see the actual structures.
c- this might be the most important one: Tyrannis without tyranny? and the teaser "how will you rule?"!! if the player is not going to have any of the promised aspects in the teaser and name, then at least change them!
d- let us costumize how colony functions, such as deciding what method of transportation to use, trucks, cars, ships, or planes? slow gallente planetary vehicles with large cargo, or fast minmatar pickup trucks? perhaps amarr ships?
These are goods already in existance but not put to good use, PI is an opportunity to make use of them, and it's not hard to add some more goods.
What does a colony need to survive in terms of population? at basics, food, water, vaccines, oxygen, accommodation, transport and security forces which keep order and push people to work harder if the capsuleer wishes so.
now, what if it's a gallentean population? they need the above + some luxury, like holoreels, diary products, consumer electronics, soft drinks, maybe they want some drugs too? like normal crash and drop?.
Amarr colony? then they bring slaves, with that they need to bring slavers and slave control equipment.
I think I already said a lot, I'll save the rest of my energy because I am not sure anyone of importance is bothering to read it in the first place.
Peace.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.04.30 01:27:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Ok sooo... I know I have a few planets seeded with structures. I kinda have an idea on what systems they are in. Is there a quick and easy way to figure out where my stuff is? Is there an asset tab that shows structures on planet (like assets in space) or a journal tab that points out what planets you have occupied?
Yeah there is...
Science & Industry... In Planets tab...
Excellent, thank you. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Circumstantial Evidence
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Posted - 2010.04.30 02:41:00 -
[194]
The tyranny of it all - is that all participating capsuleers will be the tyrants. We shall drop down extractors on countless worlds, choosing the most resource-rich locations without regard to environmental effects and native populations. We are insulated from our actions by this abstract UI, with the profit motive as our faithful guide. I predict some interesting SCOPE articles.
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Probonnie
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Posted - 2010.04.30 03:20:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Circumstantial Evidence The tyranny of it all - is that all participating capsuleers will be the tyrants. We shall drop down extractors on countless worlds, choosing the most resource-rich locations without regard to environmental effects and native populations. We are insulated from our actions by this abstract UI, with the profit motive as our faithful guide. I predict some interesting SCOPE articles.
Really to the point I think!! Most of the planets will be populated with imported labor. We have speculated on what the effect of dropping a load of militants into someone elses colony would be.
I'm a high sec player and really would like to see the resource distribution on planets be a little more concentrated. Higher Highs and lower lows. It could make the problem of maintaining control a little more pointed.
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nether void
Caldari Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.04.30 04:59:00 -
[196]
Would be nice to be able to cancel the currently selected rate of extraction. Will allow for people with weird schedules to be able to set say 24 hours, but update it in 20. Or maybe just have a couple more choices. Maybe:
0.5 hours 2 hours 5 hours 15 hours 24 hours 40 hours 95 hours ------------------------------------------ nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|EVE|PS|HZ|VG|WoW] I bred you! I led you! And I have looked into the face of the force that put the idea in your mind |
Adoria Aeternitas
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Posted - 2010.04.30 05:14:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Sierra Astrome Ok, here we go...
I was looking forward to PI since a very long time, current PI looked like it had potential in the beginning but after spending 1 night on it, it totally turned me off.
Now, I know that it's hardly half way done, and there will be more after the expansion, and I am very aware of the challenges and difficulties of game developing because I was training to be a game developer myself.
here is how it goes:
1- it's an OCEAN of clicking the same things, make 70 pins over a few planets, then survey/link/route every single time, it's too cumbersome, boring and irritating.
suggestion: a- simplify the clicking, and let the player be able to group extractors (e.g all 10 extractors harvesting bla bla gas grouped together (actual linking?), so select 1 extractor and all the others copy it. different numbers for resources per cycle? not a problem, the player should see the sum of the total of all extractors per cycle/duration from the main extractor. if someone wants different time intervals they can make different groups.
b- make the time intervals at least double the current ones, current time intervals are too short, even 24 hours is short, the amount of clicking to re-extract alone is a torture.
c- make levels of extractors, like L2 extractor = equivalent of 2x L1 extractor, L5/L10 extractor = equivalent of 5/10 L1 extractor, this way the player doesn't have to put 30 extractors and have to survey/link/route 30 times every 30 mins or 24 hours.
2- it is totally un-engaging, the player is just putting circles on a bigger circle, like 5 years old games, this is very disappointing and doesn't fit the standards of eve, in fact there is hardly any game play in it. with POS the player at least has solid visual representations of what we're doing, they see the modules, they move to access them and so on.
Suggestions: a- Minimum is to replace the circles with the actual models, real textured models like other objects in eve.
b- If you want to make it an engaging experience then the players must be able to sense the environment and interact with and within it! I am aware that eve doesn't contain planet environments, however, I believe environments are developed in DUST 514, it might be worth some consideration or thought.
The environments that players colonize must be touchable, they must land on the colony in order to manage it, see the real environment of the planet, decide there where to place different structures, and see the actual structures.
c- this might be the most important one: Tyrannis without tyranny? and the teaser "how will you rule?"!! if the player is not going to have any of the promised aspects in the teaser and name, then at least change them! ...
/signed
... I expected Planetary Interaction to be more like a mixture of Command & Conquer and Tower Defence or something like that.
PI delivers a huge load of reactions and products but there is no gameplay in it. If players will end up doing nothing but clicking 90 extractors every day ... then they will get bored soon.
You really need to add more complexity to the gameplay.
For example - create a more complex building-tree so that you need to build some living quarters and a school in order to create a factory ... just think of games like age of empires or sim city.
- Give us ground vehicles like a mobile resource scanner which you can send to a certain place and start scanning for resources
- give us some mobile harvester (mining drones) to send into an area to harvest for 30 minutes instead of building an extractor which will only last 30 minutes
- add pollution caused by factories which spreads out over the planet and damages your infrastructure ... you could then send heavy repairdrones down to the planet to repair your stuff.
... please make PI more challenging in terms of gameplay !
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.30 05:31:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Tamahra on 30/04/2010 05:32:36
Quote:
- Give us ground vehicles like a mobile resource scanner which you can send to a certain place and start scanning for resources
- give us some mobile harvester (mining drones) to send into an area to harvest for 30 minutes instead of building an extractor which will only last 30 minutes
- add pollution caused by factories which spreads out over the planet and damages your infrastructure ... you could then send heavy repairdrones down to the planet to repair your stuff.
these ideas have potential. And they dont interfere with dust. Its clear that we cant have an rts style gameplay on planets for combat activities since dust will cover that. but introducing non-combat related vehicles for game play reasons wouldnt harm the gameplay
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.04.30 07:43:00 -
[199]
Originally by: nether void Would be nice to be able to cancel the currently selected rate of extraction. Will allow for people with weird schedules to be able to set say 24 hours, but update it in 20. Or maybe just have a couple more choices. Maybe:
<numbers snipped>
I'd propose that there would be only one deposit and a slider that lets you define how fast you want to extract it and the faster you extract it, the more you waste of the deposit. In effect this would mirror the choices we have now, only with a full fluid control over how long you want the deposit to last or control over the exact amounts you extract per cycle.
I would like see a option to cancel extraction, too, should you get back home early or have schedule changes. --------
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.04.30 09:02:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Lumy
3. It would be nice to have option to set max TOTAL amount (or number of cycles) of material to be transferred by route. 4. And ability to withdraw ingredients from processor back to storage, in case you want to decommission it or change schematics. 5. Storage facilities need option to set up route, even if they don't have material for processor. Waiting for cycle to finish is annoying.
/signed
Point number 3 is particularly problematic when producing tier 3 and 4 stuff. But it shouldn't be configured to set the number of cycles routed, but number of cycles produced. Default maybe indefinite. After production stops all incoming materials get rerouted to sender.
I'm sure the code will get a little complicated this way but it'll be worth it imo
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H3llHound
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.04.30 09:49:00 -
[201]
Can the devs please add the option to remove any lighting onto planets while in PI mode. Its very hard finding the white spots on a white gasgiant that highly illuminated by the sun. Recruiting │My 3rd Party Service |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.30 10:27:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Tonto Auri "processors" is what I can't imagine. Example, please? The only remotely possible example of this could be is if i'm running a Stage2+ colony, which is easily solved by building one more storage in addition to the launchpad and splitting goods according to my building plan. I mean, i'd really need more storage space, if I want my processors work any reasonable amount of time without intervention. There's no need to for additional functionality, when issue could be solved by clever management.
Simple arbitrary example :
4 Reactive Gas Extractor - combined total output 5000 reactive gas/15min cycle (all extractors synchronized) 1 Gas Storage - 2 individual routes to processors (5000 each) 2 Basic Industry Processor (Oxidizing Compound) - consumes 6000 reactive gas/30min cycle EACH
With proper preferential routing, after 30mins, you'd expect 1 Processor to start work while storage unit piles up the excess 4000 reactive gas into the same processor's empty ingredients buffer. After 45 mins, the ingredients buffer in the first processor is full and the excess 3000 reactive gas is routed to to the second processor.
Continuing onwards, you have 1 processor working full time while the second processor acts as backup to soak up excess materials - whether sourced from extractors or from orbit. Without preferential routing, your timings will be completely off and when you scale this up to 10-20 PINS, it becomes a huge pain in the proverbial behind. You will need to do massive amount of daft routing micromanagement.
The current V4 iteration does 2 things (as far as I can tell), it randomly routes to whichever processor as the materials arrive and most importantly, excess materials from all extractors and processors are continuously routed and burned off when the ingredient buffer is full. The latter is a glaring issue that needs to be corrected. Yes, I know, there are plenty of workarounds to get around the problem, not withstanding my stand on manual routing as a whole (which should be thrown into the dustbin). However, the whole point is, there is a functionality deficiency at hand - ignoring it or working around it won't make it go away. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 13:45:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Adoria Aeternitas
Originally by: Sierra Astrome Ok, here we go...
/signed
Just don't do it, then? If you so displeased. For me, aside small issues that could be fixed easily (i.e. transport prices, uneeded excess of submit buttons, inability to cancel current job cycle) it all well tied together, and timings in general is very well thought out. 30 min for active management, 5 hours for overday/night setup, 24 hours (must be 20 hours really) for casual play, 3 days for more casual. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Jongo Fett
Caldari Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.30 13:55:00 -
[204]
One thing that is much needed and most likely mentioned here before is the ability to group extractors, its brutally painful to go through a planet of extractors resetting them all.
Just the ability to set them all on the same time schedule would be amazing, with the total output they produce.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 14:11:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Jongo Fett One thing that is much needed and most likely mentioned here before is the ability to group extractors, its brutally painful to go through a planet of extractors resetting them all.
Just the ability to set them all on the same time schedule would be amazing, with the total output they produce.
You are making wrong conclusions from right source data. It's not going through extracts painful, it's clicking submit button each time is painful... And they are all on the same schedule - they won't start until you submit on the left. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.04.30 14:19:00 -
[206]
I noticed some inconsistent behaviour of the ui items: "expedited transfer" for example is executed immediately, other commands are queued and goes into action when pushing the "submit" button.
Also: 1) It would be good to see on the planetary view which buildings has some commands queued. Easy to forget that when you have to click through tons of extractors.
2) It would be good to see on the planetary view which buildings do what. Hoovering the mouse of the extractor should show what it extracts. Hoovering the mouse of processors should show the schematics. And so on.
3) We should be able to select several extractors at once (ctlr-click, drag a frame armound them, whatever) and then execute the same command on all those selected extractors: survey -> select deposit (30m, 5h, etc.) should make all the selected extractors extract from the scanned deposit with the given same speed. Same with the route command.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.30 14:55:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Tonto Auri .. several things on routing ..
It's a matter of perception. Issues that may look minor to designers can be game breaking to players, when they run it day in and day out. Designers may design something that they think will work out great, but when you actually get down in the trenches and run things for extended periods, all those niggling inadequacies surfaces.
I doubt if any of them spend serious time to run things through like a normal players do and tbh, I didn't even spend more than a few hrs on SISI to run PI tests to notice the glaring inadequacies. It's just the tip of the iceberg. Frankly, I'm not here to argue about how things will be fixed, I'm returning feedback to CCP telling them they still have a lot of issues unfixed for a half-decent release so that they won't have GD spammed with a lot of negative posts when they release this.
P.S I'm somewhat perplexed by your "Submit" button issue because I don't really have an issue with it. Are you clicking Submit after every one change? |
Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 15:09:00 -
[208]
1. I have to agree with many others that:
Quote: I'd propose that there would be only one deposit and a slider that lets you define how fast you want to extract it and the faster you extract it, the more you waste of the deposit.
2. Also I suggest giving the extractors a visible mining radius, in which it will extract the resources. In this radius allow no other structure to be placed and the radius's can't come into contact.
3. Also as for moving resources, that is just a waste of server processing power.
4. As for export tax, I love the concept, but should it be based upon the security rating of the system? Just multiply the security rating of the system by 10 to get the export tax. Null sec shouldn't have export taxes, while high sec can do with 10 isk.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 15:13:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Tonto Auri .. several things on routing ..
It's a matter of perception. Issues that may look minor to designers can be game breaking to players, when they run it day in and day out. Designers may design something that they think will work out great, but when you actually get down in the trenches and run things for extended periods, all those niggling inadequacies surfaces.
I said "minor" from programmatical point. Or, if that clearer for you, "realization". Game designers widely known for inadequacy... idealists much.
Quote: I doubt if any of them spend serious time to run things through like a normal players do
This.
Quote: tbh, I didn't even spend more than a few hrs on SISI to run PI tests to notice the glaring inadequacies.
Hours? It took me 30 minutes.
Quote: P.S I'm somewhat perplexed by your "Submit" button issue because I don't really have an issue with it. Are you clicking Submit after every one change?
Plural "Buttons". ONE button at left is enough, no need to confirm every action that will be AGAIN confirmed afterward. Especially if there's additional checks imposed (CPU/PG/destination can't accept source). -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.04.30 15:33:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Amida Ta on 30/04/2010 15:36:21 Here my feedback for v4:
1) The difference in extraction rates between highsec and nullsec is FAR to big (I already commented about it here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1309730). It could be 10% difference, it could be 20% if you want it to be high and it could even be 50% difference if you wanted it to be extremely high, but 500+% is rediculous.
2) The amount of work to keep PI working (for the highest extraction rate) is enormous: Taking a single survey for resources takes about 15sec. You can have 6 Planets which each approx. 15 extractor = 90 extractors total. At 15sec per extractor that means that you are clicking for 22,5 minutes EACH 30 minutes. So basically at the highest extraction rate this is a 23/7 job clicking on three buttons. This is obviously not fun.
3) The extraction amounts seem to be generally low (or t1 consumption rates too high). Especially when assuming that in the medium term most people will likely take 1d extraction times (unless point 2 gets changed somehow).
4) At current prices (hard to predict how they will change) recovering the cost of one extractor, basic processor and a storage unit (not counting the command center) creating t1 products will take far over a year. This is far too long (especially when taking into account the time spend to click on extractors). _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.30 15:39:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 30/04/2010 15:43:55
Originally by: Tonto Auri Hours? It took me 30 minutes.
Congratulations, you're a genius, as demostrated from many of your previous posts in this thread. I must therefore humbly bow out, I am unable to compete with geniuses.
Originally by: Tonto Auri Plural "Buttons". ONE button at left is enough, no need to confirm every action that will be AGAIN confirmed afterward. Especially if there's additional checks imposed (CPU/PG/destination can't accept source).
Your post #205 gave me a small clue, what Jongo Fett wrote in essence is correct, which essentially mean grouping all of the same extractors under one "Survey for deposits" control to minimize all that stupid individual clicking.
So either you're confusing "Submit" with some other menus or you're not coveying the correct idea to CCP to change the wording for "Submit" to "Finish Edit" to eliminate confusion.
P.S If anyone from CCP is reading this, please change "Submit" to something that's has a more explicit meaning like "Finish Edit". Sorry I cba to edit my original post to include this as a bullet
/grammar
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Adoria Aeternitas
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Posted - 2010.04.30 15:58:00 -
[212]
The more i play around with PI the more it reminds me of a very genius and addicting little flashgame.
Its called The Space Game. ...just to give you devs an idea of how cool harvesting ore can be !
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 16:03:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Tonto Auri Plural "Buttons". ONE button at left is enough, no need to confirm every action that will be AGAIN confirmed afterward. Especially if there's additional checks imposed (CPU/PG/destination can't accept source).
Your post #205 gave me a small clue, what Jongo Fett wrote in essence is correct, which essentially mean grouping all of the same extractors under one "Survey for deposits" control to minimize all that stupid individual clicking.
Correct in sense of obsence... well, that's a joke. Let me explain it properly. Right now, once colony is established, workflow is this: Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Tell it that you actually sure you choosed a deposit to extract -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Tell it that you actually sure you choosed a deposit to extract -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Tell it that you actually sure you choosed a deposit to extract -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Tell it that you actually sure you choosed a deposit to extract -> Tell it that you are totally sure you did it all right and want to proceed with extraction.
I suggest to change it to looks the way: Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Tell it that you actually done with surveying and want to start extraction.
About 24% less clicking.
This is more clear? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.04.30 16:30:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Tonto Auri Let me explain it properly. I suggest to change it to looks the way: Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Select extractor -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Tell it that you actually done with surveying and want to start extraction.
About 24% less clicking.
Ah, much better thank you. This is how it should have been written when you were running up Jongo's post. I think it's a good idea since you're in Edit mode when doing this so mistakes won't really be an issue. Coupled if CCP implements the ability to stop extractors mid-work, it will work even beter.
Coming to the extractors grouping concept : (Group 5 extractors before-hand, all route to the same storage unit) Select extractor group -> Survey for deposits -> Choose deposit -> Finish Edit
4 clicks (or 5 clicks if the Submit button is still there) |
Farlo Truan
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Posted - 2010.04.30 17:38:00 -
[215]
Will the original cost of buildings you decomission be reimbursed? If not, every time you move extractors (and likely storage facility, basic production facilities, and the rest of chain you have placed nearby for efficiency) to follow the changing resources map caused by depleted resources you will get charged again. Hardly beneficial to enterprising planetary tyrants.
I suggest an On/Offline options for buildings as well, in which buildings in an Offline state stop functioning and lose any Links but don't consume any CPU/Powergrid. Offlined buildings can then be moved (perhaps for a small fee and a delay in being able to Online again depending on the distance you move them) or placed into some kind of storage.
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 18:11:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Sturmwolke So either you're confusing "Submit" with some other menus or you're not coveying the correct idea to CCP to change the wording for "Submit" to "Finish Edit" to eliminate confusion.
P.S If anyone from CCP is reading this, please change "Submit" to something that's has a more explicit meaning like "Finish Edit". Sorry I cba to edit my original post to include this as a bullet
/grammar
I have no problem with "Submit" to commit changes to my network. The command Submit giving the order to commit the changes I want makes sense to me.
I would like to see some type of listing of all the changes I have made before I click Submit. For example; I build an extractor and Submit it. Next, I 1) set the extraction to 30 minutes, 2) build a link to a processor, 3) set the processor with the right schematic, 4) set the route from the extractor to the processor. I then select Submit to make these four changes. The only thing listed is the 1), setting the extraction to 30 minutes. A list of items to be committed on the Submit is needed.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 18:35:00 -
[217]
Is anyone having a problem of running out of powergrid way before CPU with advanced and elite PCC? Seems that Basic and Limited PCC are more balanced. In order to have High Tech system, you need at least 16 extractors and basic processor at 800 grid each and 6 advanced processor at 600 grid each. That is a total of (16 X 800) + (6 X 600) = 16,400 grid in order to feed the High Tech. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 3000 grid for the High Tech, planetary links, and a space port.
The CPU in this setup is (16 X 100) + (6 X 300) = 3400. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 25,000 CPU for the High Tech, planetary links, and space port.
Are my number way off, or my setup all wrong? (Is this troll bait?)
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.30 19:50:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Avoida on 30/04/2010 19:52:07 Edited by: Avoida on 30/04/2010 19:51:48
Originally by: Amida Ta Edited by: Amida Ta on 30/04/2010 15:36:21 Here my feedback for v4:
1) The difference in extraction rates between highsec and nullsec is FAR to big (I already commented about it here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1309730). It could be 10% difference, it could be 20% if you want it to be high and it could even be 50% difference if you wanted it to be extremely high, but 500+% is rediculous.
If you want better rates, get your carebear butt out of the super low risk Empire and move to 0.0. I, for one, am glad empire pansies won't be able to farm the crap out of PI to make yet ISK with near zero risk.
Originally by: HammeringHank I see I am no the only one running out of powergrid way before CPU with advanced and elite PCCs. Seems that Basic and Limited PCC are more balanced. In order to have High Tech system, you need at least 16 extractors and basic processor at 800 grid each and 6 advanced processor at 600 grid each. That is a total of (16 X 800) + (6 X 600) = 16,400 grid in order to feed the High Tech. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 3000 grid for the High Tech, planetary links, and a space port.
The CPU in this setup is (16 X 100) + (6 X 300) = 3400. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 25,000 CPU for the High Tech, planetary links, and space port.
Try NOT doing it all on one planet.
p.s. You'll only need a spaceport for the planet to which you are importing materials.
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 20:11:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Avoida
Originally by: HammeringHank I see I am no the only one running out of powergrid way before CPU with advanced and elite PCCs. Seems that Basic and Limited PCC are more balanced. In order to have High Tech system, you need at least 16 extractors and basic processor at 800 grid each and 6 advanced processor at 600 grid each. That is a total of (16 X 800) + (6 X 600) = 16,400 grid in order to feed the High Tech. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 3000 grid for the High Tech, planetary links, and a space port.
The CPU in this setup is (16 X 100) + (6 X 300) = 3400. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 25,000 CPU for the High Tech, planetary links, and space port.
Try NOT doing it all on one planet.
p.s. You'll only need a spaceport for the planet to which you are importing materials.
With only 6 planets, using one for only High Tech is not economical.
Where do the rockets go after launch. I have three in space somewhere but can't find them. The space port is a reliable export channel, and is not the limiting factor.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.30 20:17:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Hammering Hank
Originally by: Avoida
With only 6 planets, using one for only High Tech is not economical.
Where do the rockets go after launch. I have three in space somewhere but can't find them. The space port is a reliable export channel, and is not the limiting factor.
(T)Hank(s)
If you use the Command Center to launch materials off-planet, you will get a bookmark notification in your Journal under the Planetary Interaction tab. That bookmark is good for 5 days. Note that the cargo container that appears at that bookmark will NOT be physically present until you initiate warp to that location.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 20:40:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Avoida As for being economical..are you attempting to do this in Empire? If so, that's probably why you're needing so many extractors. 0.0 with its far higher material concentrations might reduce your extractor needs. Also think about it this way..it just might be designed so that you can't do everything yourself and must recruit the assistance of others. Perhaps do this on a corporate level..spread the load.
It still seems not very cost-efficient to export Stage1 (reprocessed raw) materials. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.04.30 20:51:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 30/04/2010 20:51:53
Originally by: Avoida
Originally by: Amida Ta
Here my feedback for v4:
1) The difference in extraction rates between highsec and nullsec is FAR to big (I already commented about it here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1309730). It could be 10% difference, it could be 20% if you want it to be high and it could even be 50% difference if you wanted it to be extremely high, but 500+% is rediculous.
If you want better rates, get your carebear butt out of the super low risk Empire and move to 0.0. I, for one, am glad empire pansies won't be able to farm the crap out of PI to make yet ISK with near zero risk.
Care to explain how 0.0 is so much more risk compared to high sec?
Actually, 0.0 is much LESS risk than high sec.
Why? Because the only people there interested in industry are those from the big alliances which already control more or less perfectly the space. It is no problem to wait until the system is empty and then to get your stuff from the planets. No risk at all. In high sec you have all the time risk of suicide gankers. Also you have no competition in 0.0. While you will have really high competition in high sec.
The most dangerous place for PI is low sec. 0.0 is certainly NOT dangerous for PI. It is even less risky than high sec as explained above once you have a settled down alliance. And don't come with some theoretical arguments, we all know that the big alliances control pretty much their space and that things like pos-industry are pretty much risk free for them. PI will be the same.
So, how do you justify magnitudes better yield in 0.0?
I for my part hope that the devs will balance it so that 0.0 will be at max on par with low sec. Low sec is really the MOST DANGEROUS place for industry stuff.
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:28:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Avoida Edited by: Avoida on 30/04/2010 20:26:51
Originally by: Hammering Hank
With only 6 planets, using one for only High Tech is not economical.
Where do the rockets go after launch. I have three in space somewhere but can't find them. The space port is a reliable export channel, and is not the limiting factor.
(T)Hank(s)
If you use the Command Center to launch materials off-planet, you will get a bookmark notification in your Journal under the Planetary Interaction tab. That bookmark is good for 5 days. Note that the cargo container that appears at that bookmark will NOT be physically present until you initiate warp to that location.
As for being economical..are you attempting to do this in Empire? If so, that's probably why you're needing so many extractors. 0.0 with its far higher material concentrations might reduce your extractor needs. Also think about it this way..it just might be designed so that you can't do everything yourself and must recruit the assistance of others. Perhaps do this on a corporate level..spread the load.
Originally by: Hammering Hank That is a total of (16 X 800) + (6 X 600) = 16,400 grid in order to feed the High Tech. With an Elite PCC, this leaves about 3000 grid for the High Tech, planetary links, and a space port.
Here is the break down of those number. 8 extractors connected to 8 basic processors, a 1 to 1 relationship producing 1 level refined items (oxygen, water, etc.). The 8 basic processors paired to 4 advanced process, a 2 to 1 relationship producing 2 level items (coolant, electrolytes, etc.). The 4 advanced process paired to 2 more advanced processors, another 2 to 1 relationship producing 3rd level items (superconductors, etc.). This is not accounting for the schematics that require 3 inputs for a single output.
An advanced and elite PCC should be able to manage this type of network. The CPU capacity can easily as this takes up 1/8 of the CPU capacity, but the powergrid can't as this setup takes 5/6 of its grid capacity and planetary links are not yet added. The powergrid is too small for the 24 links needed, but the CPU has more than enough room to spare. This is unbalanced.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:34:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Hammering Hank Here is the break down of those number. 8 extractors connected to 8 basic processors, a 1 to 1 relationship producing 1 level refined items (oxygen, water, etc.).
Wat? Idealist much? Or you have so much time to spend managing your planets?
Quote: (T)Hank(s)
For this kind of stuff, the "signature" function exist. Please move your crap there. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Qianlee VIII
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:47:00 -
[225]
Ok, after last night I couldnÆt log to PI anymore, too much clicking.
I thought about ideas to improve the current system, and it turns out that it is possible to reduce the clicking from 30 minutes of clicks to 10-20 seconds! It might need a big change in the system, but it is definitely worth it, so please consider it.
1- Let the player create ôextracting fieldsö:
Instead of the current system, the player drops X extractors, a storage and processor, selects them all and creates a field. Then all these modules are automatically linked and routed logically. If the player wishes to route the raw materials to a far away storage/processor then he creates a field only from the extractors, then links it to the desired installation.
2- Remove unnecessary clicks.
E.g. Survey button on extractors and the 10 seconds wait. The Player should automatically instantly get the list .
-Routing is 90% of the time unnecessary; it should be done only from storages with more than 1 product.
-Importing to planets is too complex, make it simple 4 steps: Open ship cargo Open orbital cargo Drag items Click ôsendö button, Done!
3- Make all the single-optioned selections automated!
ôAqueous liquidsö can only be processed into water. "Water" and "reactive metals" linked to an advanced processor can only produce "water-cooled CPU".
Therefore, a field with 10 ôAqueous liquids extractorö, a storage and basic industry facility should automatically configure itself to produce water.
Advanced processors should automatically select the schematics based on the inputs. If only one product is linked then the player should get a drop down only with the possible products from the ingredient linked.
4- Make a window similar to advanced industry facility Schematics are complex and the player can't memorize them, a window with full schematic solves this.
--
example of how to build a colony that produces "Super computers":
Ingredients: ôwater-cooled CPUö + ôcoolantö û which will be imported.
1- The player puts down X number of "base metals extractors" in proper location. 2- Insert "storage facility" nearby. 3 Insert "basic industry facility" ** 4- select the area containing the previous modules > click a new button with the function "create field". Extractors are automatically linked and routed to storage, storage is automatically linked/routed to processor, and processor automatically selects ôreactive metalsö schematic. 5- The player then clicks one extractor, and is instantly promoted to choose the time to depletion he wants for that field. 6- Repeat steps 2-5 for "aqueous liquids". 7- Player inserts 2x "advanced industry facility" 8- Player links the two "basic industry facility" to one "advanced industry facility". *** "advanced industry facility" automatically selects the schematic for "water-cooled CPU" 9- Player imports ôcoolantsö to planet through space port. 10- link space port to either storage or directly to the 2nd "advanced industry facility". 11- Link First "advanced industry facility" to the 2nd. *** Process of manufacturing ôsupercomputersö will automatically start. --
***Bonus: ôField Command Centreö: A very neat solution!
Areas and modules are different categories, therefore it might be technically difficult to link them, the solution lies in creating a new module, ôField Command Centreö, which is then linked as desired. This module can be a solution to many difficulties. The player can use this module to select cycle times, access the storage facility and industry processors. I strongly believe that itÆs one of the best things you can do in PI and simplifies a lot of tedious processes, but itÆs not there yet so I will continue the post without it.
Now this is important for me! I spent a lot time and a effort to make this post, if there are devs reading this then please let us know. if it's not even read then its a complete waste of time and effort.
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Sanche Tehkeli
Gallente Bionesis Technologies Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 22:36:00 -
[226]
Ok, some feedback AND questions :
Currently there is no "close" button to close effectively a PIN information window (when you have clicked a PIN) and that is a bit confusing, especially when you forgot to select a schematic and you try to route something to the facility. You get "invalid : product is not used by schematic" or the like and... there is no clear way to correct it.
Also, when your network involves many PINs and processors it becomes difficult to trace that's all run smoothly. For example, after spending 10 minutes to set the network, surveying, routing... I realized I forgot to route ONE product and the supply chain was thus inoperative. There should be a way to summarize all your installations on a singe planet, like: type | ID | incoming | outgoing (routed?) | cpu | pg.
Question : what is happening when you destroy a link that is used to route products and, before another route is provided, a PIN cycle ends?
To extend that, what happens with overloaded incoming pipes? Say you have a tier 1 facility (6000 inc., 30 min cycle) and 3 extractors providing 3100 u per 15 minutes, so 6200 per 30 minutes. Where go the 200 u? Lost? Buffered ? What happens to outputs if there is no "storage" or route available?
At this moment it is not possible to split output onto 2 outgoing routes, for example to route exactly 6000 u to a processor and the remaining to a storage (or I missed it) ; I hope you would not end by pasting a storage before the processor to buffer incoming product (PG/CPU uniwse) if you cannot empty to storage without breaking the initial route.
To conclude it is hard to spot other players PINs on some planet types (lava for example.) I guess there is a sort of detection radius around your own PINs to reveal others PINs but those are greyed/darker than your own. Clicking a command center reveals the netword but you cannot show info to see the player name, you have to right click the command center when netword is hidden to get to context menu. Maybe not for this release but there definetly should be skills (or marine missions??) to spy upon other players installations (types, running/offline, route load...)
It's gonne be awesome, like a game within the game with deep economic extends. I like it alot.
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Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.30 22:40:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Hammering Hank Here is the break down of those number. 8 extractors connected to 8 basic processors, a 1 to 1 relationship producing 1 level refined items (oxygen, water, etc.). The 8 basic processors paired to 4 advanced process, a 2 to 1 relationship producing 2 level items (coolant, electrolytes, etc.). The 4 advanced process paired to 2 more advanced processors, another 2 to 1 relationship producing 3rd level items (superconductors, etc.). This is not accounting for the schematics that require 3 inputs for a single output.
An advanced and elite PCC should be able to manage this type of network. The CPU capacity can easily as this takes up 1/8 of the CPU capacity, but the powergrid can't as this setup takes 5/6 of its grid capacity and planetary links are not yet added. The powergrid is too small for the 24 links needed, but the CPU has more than enough room to spare. This is unbalanced.
Originally by: Hammering Hank Here is the break down of those number. 8 extractors connected to 8 basic processors, a 1 to 1 relationship producing 1 level refined items (oxygen, water, etc.). The 8 basic processors paired to 4 advanced process, a 2 to 1 relationship producing 2 level items (coolant, electrolytes, etc.). The 4 advanced process paired to 2 more advanced processors, another 2 to 1 relationship producing 3rd level items (superconductors, etc.). This is not accounting for the schematics that require 3 inputs for a single output.
No wonder you're having problems. 1 extractor per 1 processor?? Think man..think. 1 processor needs no more and no less than 6,000 units every 30 minutes to keep churning out it's 20 unit output. That is your first goal..get 6,000 units into that extractor every 30 minutes for maximum efficiency. Yes, in 0.0 you can sometimes get extraction rates that high by choosing the least overall efficient extraction rate (high extraction amount, lowest materials present), but the resource depletes in 2 cycles and so you'll waste time having to resurvey and rather quickly find you need to decommission and reposition those extractors as the material distribution migrates.
Utilizing the 24 hour depletion timeframe in 0.0 means you can, on average, have 4 extractors feeding 1 basic processor and after those 24 hours you'll have 940 units of your tier 1 output. You'd expect to get 48 processing cycles every 24 hours, but remember you don't actually produce your first tier 1 output until 1 hour after starting..so you only get 47 processor cycles.
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.30 23:07:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Avoida
Originally by: Hammering Hank Here is the break down of those number. 8 extractors connected to 8 basic processors, a 1 to 1 relationship producing 1 level refined items (oxygen, water, etc.). The 8 basic processors paired to 4 advanced process, a 2 to 1 relationship producing 2 level items (coolant, electrolytes, etc.). The 4 advanced process paired to 2 more advanced processors, another 2 to 1 relationship producing 3rd level items (superconductors, etc.). This is not accounting for the schematics that require 3 inputs for a single output.
An advanced and elite PCC should be able to manage this type of network. The CPU capacity can easily as this takes up 1/8 of the CPU capacity, but the powergrid can't as this setup takes 5/6 of its grid capacity and planetary links are not yet added. The powergrid is too small for the 24 links needed, but the CPU has more than enough room to spare. This is unbalanced.
Originally by: Hammering Hank Here is the break down of those number. 8 extractors connected to 8 basic processors, a 1 to 1 relationship producing 1 level refined items (oxygen, water, etc.). The 8 basic processors paired to 4 advanced process, a 2 to 1 relationship producing 2 level items (coolant, electrolytes, etc.). The 4 advanced process paired to 2 more advanced processors, another 2 to 1 relationship producing 3rd level items (superconductors, etc.). This is not accounting for the schematics that require 3 inputs for a single output.
No wonder you're having problems. 1 extractor per 1 processor?? Think man..think. 1 processor needs no more and no less than 6,000 units every 30 minutes to keep churning out it's 20 unit output. That is your first goal..get 6,000 units into that extractor every 30 minutes for maximum efficiency. Yes, in 0.0 you can sometimes get extraction rates that high by choosing the least overall efficient extraction rate (high extraction amount, lowest materials present), but the resource depletes in 2 cycles and so you'll waste time having to resurvey and rather quickly find you need to decommission and reposition those extractors as the material distribution migrates.
Utilizing the 24 hour depletion timeframe in 0.0 means you can, on average, have 4 extractors feeding 1 basic processor and after those 24 hours you'll have 940 units of your tier 1 output. You'd expect to get 48 processing cycles every 24 hours, but remember you don't actually produce your first tier 1 output until 1 hour after starting..so you only get 47 processor cycles.
You make my point even better than I can, so thanks for the help. With the powergrid limitations of Advanced and Elite PCC's, there is no way to optimize production without running out of powergrid while trying to utilize the CPU capacity. The system is unbalanced.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Avoida
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Posted - 2010.04.30 23:35:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Hammering Hank You make my point even better than I can, so thanks for the help. With the powergrid limitations of Advanced and Elite PCC's, there is no way to optimize production without running out of powergrid while trying to utilize the CPU capacity. The system is unbalanced.
No. It's not unbalanced as it wasn't designed so that you can do everything on a single planet. Like so much in EVE, you have to accept tradeoffs. Accept it and adapt your configurations.
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jkkid
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Posted - 2010.05.01 02:13:00 -
[230]
I am sure this has been mentioned but i would like to reiterate the point.
It sure would be nice to have some sort of drop down in the science and industry window under the planets that show your colonies that are on the planet.
Along with that - have it show the cpu, pg info as well as what is being processed and the amount currently in storage.
Its just a matter of setting up some kind of sensors on each of the structures that allow transmission of data to your neocom. That way you dont have to continue to go through each planet in the science and industry overview and view each planet. Seems like a lot of time wasted there.
That is not too much to ask and still within the reality of eve.
What do you think?
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.01 03:09:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Avoida
Originally by: Hammering Hank You make my point even better than I can, so thanks for the help. With the powergrid limitations of Advanced and Elite PCC's, there is no way to optimize production without running out of powergrid while trying to utilize the CPU capacity. The system is unbalanced.
No. It's not unbalanced as it wasn't designed so that you can do everything on a single planet. Like so much in EVE, you have to accept tradeoffs. Accept it and adapt your configurations.
Please help my ignorance. Please provide a setup that uses the powergrid and CPU of Advanced and Elite PCCs to their full availabilities.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Azmarel Whosayar
Amarr Thanatos Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.01 05:29:00 -
[232]
Links The links currently used in the test server are HUGE, and by huge I mean: You can route 14 extractors, all through 1 link to a storage, then route the stuff from the storage out to processors via the same link, then the products back, then out to advanced processors then back, all through the same link and it will be at about 45% capacitiy. Any one basic sized link should be able to run 2, maybe 3 extractors through it and a processing plant, meaning that you either spread out or start upgrading.
Links also need to be priced based on planet radius. If you get a superlarge planet, say 100,000km diameter (They are out there), you can put two pins right next to each other, as close as they can go, Put a link between them and it stretches 1000+ km. As it is now there will be a huge rush of "Find the smallest planet we can!" when people figure this out.
CPU The cpu on the CC's is way out of scale. I find that I'm usually using 3.8k of 28k cpu on the elite ones. My suggestion would be to reduce the stats of the CC's by half, then make it so that production facilities use 800 CPU and 100 PG and extractors use 100 CPU and 800PG. This would also bring a balance to what you see on planets and will reduce the number of "Mining Colonies" where the raw material is just shipped straight offworld.
Watch this space for more feedback!
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Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.01 07:24:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Azmarel Whosayar This would also bring a balance to what you see on planets and will reduce the number of "Mining Colonies" where the raw material is just shipped straight offworld.
The customs tax alone does that, no need to add unnecessary game mechanics that will nerf other things at the same time, such as probably making the basic and standard ones unusable entirely.
*******************************************
I find it funny that we have 8 pages of what amounts to people complaining about the number of clicks involved in PI without much feedback at all regarding the fact that this is a one-way flow of isk into the ether from your wallet. To reuse an example I posted on before based on numbers alone, Nanite Paste is as far from being a viable candidate for PI as you could hope for.
The production of Nanite Paste requires only third tier reaction of planet goo but is still not going to allow you to break even if only your time is a cost, let alone all of the structure and customs costs. The minimum number of planets you would need to run is five, though the mix on those five is up to you as some things can be extracted across several of the planet types. To test the theory that the current balance of PI is unbelievably far out of whack, I set up a *simple* 24 hour reaction and extraction chain to see just how much Nanite Paste I could expect to produce in a day without spending my time and isk every thirty minutes setting up new PINs.
Firstly, I needed a decent Barren Planet on which I could extract the ingredients for the second tier production chain that nets Biocells and Nanites. In addition to that planet I would require a Gas Planet which would turn out another second tier production chain of Oxides. Yet again I need another planet, this time a Lava Planet that will provide me with basic reactions of Silicon and Plasmoids to ship offworld for use in further reactions. That's all, right? Nope, not done yet, gotta get some more reactions in there. How about we add a nice frigid Ice Planet to the mix to pump out some second tier reactions for Supertensile Plastics? Finally done eh? Not quite, we're still missing something... The all elusive Temperate Planet on which I could extract some Autotrophs since they appear to be unique to Temperates. Then there was the minor necessity of second tier reacting some of the stuff from the other planets after hauling it over to get Microfiber Shielding and Super Conductors. At long last I was to the point that I could do my third tier reactions for Data Chips and Gel-Matrix Biopaste.
And the end result of all of that setting up and transport and figuring out what was needed to begin with? 11 Nanite Paste! I had just wasted a bit over 24 hours to produce what amounts to killing a battlecruiser NPC in the same 0.0 space in which I had been testing. Having not run missions in quite some time I do not know for sure how to equate the two but I would expect a single level 1 mission would come close in isk value and would surpass PI in an isk/hour comparison.
Granted this was only a first attempt and the extraction ratios/reaction setup could be tweaked a bit but even with a 100% gain I'd still be making laughable amounts of isk with an expenditure of SEVERAL Million isk in construction and transport taxation and a net loss at all times.
CCP, You have serious balance issues to look at and a very short while to do it in if you plan to keep your current release schedule. It might be time to sort your stuff before you release a predominately useless patch.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.01 07:54:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Abrazzar on 01/05/2010 07:54:45
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess CCP, You have serious balance issues to look at and a very short while to do it in if you plan to keep your current release schedule. It might be time to sort your stuff before you release a predominately useless patch.
In a design process, balancing is one of the last things done. First the system needs to work properly and spacious values for non-balanced aspects are used to avoid conflicts in testing. The last patch fixed mechanics issues, more balancing will come in the next stage.
It is quite obvious that CPU, link capacities and production amounts are not balanced yet. Just compare mechanical parts with enriched uranium. Same requirements, same amounts, can't be balanced. IIRC a dev mentioned that in the end balancing will result in similar values to what we have right now on Tranquility.
There's more to come, two weeks left until the final deadline, I'd guess. --------
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Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.05.01 09:25:00 -
[235]
Edited by: Shin Dari on 01/05/2010 09:25:24
Originally by: Avoida
Originally by: Hammering Hank You make my point even better than I can, so thanks for the help. With the powergrid limitations of Advanced and Elite PCC's, there is no way to optimize production without running out of powergrid while trying to utilize the CPU capacity. The system is unbalanced.
No. It's not unbalanced as it wasn't designed so that you can do everything on a single planet. Like so much in EVE, you have to accept tradeoffs. Accept it and adapt your configurations.
Nobody sane will export raw materials. I expect that some people will export refined materials, but most will export basic products. And in those setups you will run out of PG way before CPU.
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Farlo Truan
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Posted - 2010.05.01 09:54:00 -
[236]
Whilst Powergrid limitations may reduce the maximum size of your effective chains, there are hints of coming structures which will enable trade of items on planet with other players PI structures (Planet-based Trading Posts?)
So, with a few corporate or alliance mates (or for those who have them, alt accounts) I'm expecting you should be able to create larger networks on planets to more efficiently use the available resources.
I'm sure the schematics will be changed also to balance the isk output value of production flows.
What I'm most concerned with is the expense of structures which will likely have a short lifespan before becoming redundant where you set them up. Will you be able to move them, or get reimbursed most (if not all) of their initial cost?
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Lister829
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.01 10:30:00 -
[237]
There was a problem accessing X-BV98 II
This is a real probem now, because I spent 4 mil for facilities that I cannot use. And this is still tying up one of the six planets "I control".
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JeanLuc Blindtard
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Posted - 2010.05.01 11:13:00 -
[238]
I must agree with the balancing issues to little is been produced I spend like 24h to get some 12 units of first tier stuff. Don't even wanna think of the troubles of moving around stuff from planet to planet to obtain higher lvl mats.
Another issue is me tacking notice of the nice lvl5 command center and deciding that with the extra cpu / pwr I got to build me another mining op on the planet on another side with different materials so I setup like 5-6 mines and linked them to a storage. 24h later I couldn't find them. all I find was a small square icon like pin in the location where the second mining op was. So my question is: did I needed to link the second mining op to the main command center? or was it a bug?
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.01 11:17:00 -
[239]
There was a problem accessing Pera I - Main assembly planet. There was a problem accessing Pera IV - The critical source of two required materials in production chain.
I could go with one locked planet, problematic, but not unbeatable, with two locked out, I just can't do anything... CCP? Halp? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Gerbil Preistess
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.01 11:44:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Gerbil Preistess on 01/05/2010 11:45:23
Originally by: JeanLuc Blindtard So my question is: did I needed to link the second mining op to the main command center? or was it a bug?
I would say 50/50 chance you did not remember to hit submit after you set it all up. There needs to be a nag screen when you exit planet view with unsubmitted changes tbh.
Also, There was a problem accessing MR4-MY VII. With no Icy planet there go my 11 nanite paste per day
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JeanLuc Blindtard
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Posted - 2010.05.01 11:51:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Gerbil Preistess Edited by: Gerbil Preistess on 01/05/2010 11:45:23
Originally by: JeanLuc Blindtard So my question is: did I needed to link the second mining op to the main command center? or was it a bug?
I would say 50/50 chance you did not remember to hit submit after you set it all up. There needs to be a nag screen when you exit planet view with unsubmitted changes tbh.
Also, There was a problem accessing MR4-MY VII. With no Icy planet there go my 11 nanite paste per day
Well Ok lets say I didn't submit but if so what was with the square icon over where I had the op set up?
Anyway I agree with you that when leaving planet mode or closing game or whatever there should be a pop up telling us that some modifications have been made and if we wanna submit them or discard before moving on...
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Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.01 14:24:00 -
[242]
Bah, my alt is locked out of Teonusude VII. Apparently, however, my friends can still access it and in fact still see my network out there. This sucks, because I was actually engaged in some resource PvP with some people there and it was interesting to see how things were developing :/
How do I get my planet back? Clearing the cache had no effect on it :(
Also because technically my installations are still there I can't even replace for another planet, since it still counts for that 6-planet maximum.
I'd very much like to know what is causing this lockdown of sorts. It's not the first time one of my alts gets locked out of a planet. I've never been locked out of one on my main, who has been testing planets all alone in a WH system. But I don't know if that's just a coincidence or what.
Kay.
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Persona n0ngrata
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Posted - 2010.05.01 15:05:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Persona n0ngrata on 01/05/2010 15:24:19 I want to know if in a future update if you will be able to setup your colony for your corporation and also have a new corp role introduced called the PI Overseer role. Basically allowing a corp member with the role to interact with and manage colonies that were setup by fellow corp members for the corp.
Personally i would like to see the whole corp role thing happen too so that people who want to do a all out PI corp can do so.
It could open an interesting world of possibilities.
I have made a separate thread for this topic: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1311175 |
Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.01 15:10:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Persona n0ngrata
Personally i would like to see the whole corp role thing happen too so that people who want to do a all out PI corp can do so.
Yes! I wondered about this in some previous PI version thread. This would open up a world of interesting possibilities.
I also can't wait to see how/if/when trade between different players on planet surface will work.
Kay.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.01 15:52:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Avoida As for being economical..are you attempting to do this in Empire? If so, that's probably why you're needing so many extractors. 0.0 with its far higher material concentrations might reduce your extractor needs. Also think about it this way..it just might be designed so that you can't do everything yourself and must recruit the assistance of others. Perhaps do this on a corporate level..spread the load.
It still seems not very cost-efficient to export Stage1 (reprocessed raw) materials.
By design. It's apparently not intended to be ran in an afk format similar to or derived from the pos situation, but to require effort before profitability. Besides, if it came down to lowering the treshold enough it would just end up as another niche for macros and rmt'ers to exploit.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.01 17:24:00 -
[246]
Originally by: iP0D By design. It's apparently not intended to be ran in an afk format similar to or derived from the pos situation, but to require effort before profitability. Besides, if it came down to lowering the treshold enough it would just end up as another niche for macros and rmt'ers to exploit.
It's not possible to run it in AFK mode, like POS. You need to choose deposits et al. But given the resource distribution on a planets, it's not always possible to assemble P2 at given place, and you WILL need to export P1 for certain P2. Check spreadsheet. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.05.01 18:35:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Jack bubu
Originally by: Green Drag0n Some issues with PI:
I was able to set up two command centers so far (found out about the isk-cost the hard way and still generating money to cover the loss).
Love the 6 planet limit.
NOTE: On many planets, anything below blue concentration (on scan) will not be visible. even the blue and green can be hard to spot. I'd suggest brightening or lowering the transparency on this to make it more visible to players, rather than acting like acid-rain clouds.
Haven't made anything higher than nanites yet so I have yet to see the high-end manufacturing.
But from what I can tell, there's at least a 5 mil isk barrier to get started (which is almost guaranteed to go up).
I definitely gotta try different organization though, my current model just won't work. XD
As far as the blueprints, does that refer to recipes for the production plants, or will that be unaffected?
If you want to see ressources with lower concentration, pull the slider to the left until some spots turn red :)
not sure if im satisfied with the 6 planets limit.. id say an advanced skill with 8x multiplier should allow additional 5 planets, else the lot of skillpoints that can be invested into PI is fairly low imho.
got to agree an advanced skill to add 5 more wud be nice
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Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.02 01:42:00 -
[248]
Somebody else suggested it on SiSi today and not sure if the suggestion is already out there but anyway .....
Would be good to be able to "Save PI Structure as template ". So for example
1. Save your favourite working PI structure configuration as an XML file - the same as saving ship fittings. 2. Load up a new PCC and fly to another planet of the same type. 3. Create a new PI Structure from the save template. 4. Place the PCC, extractors etc that are created from the template 5. Links, routes etc are already made, you only need to scan for resources and hit the go button.
You can swap, share, import, export XML templates with corp mates, friends, enemies etc etc. And some other enterprising type of person can come up with an EFT like tool to generate PI configurations.
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Aurelius Lyonis
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Posted - 2010.05.02 04:00:00 -
[249]
Heat Map -
You've just eliminated everyone from using PI who is colorblind.
Devise a new system to display resource concentrations which is more usable. I'm not colorblind, and I have difficulty differentiating if something is "orange concentration" or "some other concentration + blue planet background".
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.02 08:30:00 -
[250]
Number of planet is right, I disagree with those saying need 12/18.
On survey results the distribution of resource deposit sizes vs extraction rates on survey is good.
Pin stacking is a good nerf, the minimum distance could be increased by around 30-50% to force more spread. It's still possible to get 4-6 pins on many resource hot spots. I think 1-2 should be normal/typical.
UI much improved but still a little too clicky on setting up links and routes. It should be possible to create a link with mouse drag and drop from one pin to another. It should also be possible to setup a resource route with drag and drop from extractor/storage dialog box onto the destination.
The distribution of planets seems unreal/out of place. Why for example some highly populated systems, with lot of stations, (e.g. oursulaert) have no habitable planets. Yet some systems with habitable planets have no stations. It just feels wrong. I think every important system should have at least one habitable terran planet. I would go so far as to have somebody review the backstory/prime fictions for planet descriptions, and make the planet seeding/distribution fit.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.02 12:06:00 -
[251]
Okay, so I'd like to know how to handle the surplus materials problem. Say I have 4 extractors feeding a basic factory. What happens to the surplus materials ? Going to waste ? How can I setup an operation without loss and without having to reroute things all the time. I'm currently feeding all 'finished product' into my spaceport as it has a lot of storage. So basically I figure I need to use the warehouse but I am unsure how to use it. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.05.02 12:56:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 02/05/2010 12:59:27
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
Okay, so I'd like to know how to handle the surplus materials problem. Say I have 4 extractors feeding a basic factory. What happens to the surplus materials ? Going to waste ? How can I setup an operation without loss and without having to reroute things all the time.
All surpluses are burned off because :
a) routing doesn't have a stop valve b) lower tier processors do not have an auto hold production when its output exceeds the higher tier processors consumption.
You can get around this by routing the exact materials amount to processors (that equals its consumption) and buffering lower tier processors outputs with storage units. |
JeanLuc Blindtard
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Posted - 2010.05.02 12:57:00 -
[253]
A little feedback after today's visit to the test server:
- Info windows on storage or whatever need to have the option to enlarge them (like drag them from the corner) I seem to not be able to do that. Having small windows is annoying when lots of materials come / and go in one of the facilities thous having a loooong list in the routes menu. I then have to move down the bar to look for whatever I need to know its very troubling.
- Some more automatization could be useful. I just spend like 1h 30min trying to setup a mining/extraction and basic reprocessing system. It would be cool to know how much is coming in to a reprocessing plant and how much is been wasted without running numbers for every mine and adding them and stuff.
And a question: Are the planets going to be reseeded with the patch on the main server?
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.02 13:35:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 02/05/2010 13:40:37 Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 02/05/2010 13:37:56
Originally by: Sturmwolke All surpluses are burned off because :
a) routing doesn't have a stop valve b) lower tier processors do not have an auto hold production when its output exceeds the higher tier processors consumption.
You can get around this by routing the exact materials amount to processors (that equals its consumption) and buffering lower tier processors outputs with storage units.
Thanks, kinda what I figured.
CCP, the white gas planets and ice planets are unviewable (white glare and white menus + text + white on colour scale). Also, the info windows are not wide enough, I can only see 50% of the estimated times. Finally, distances on gas planets are a problem. Links are WAAAAAY too expensive. Actually, you get this with any big planet. Smaller the planet, cheaper the links as distances are smaller. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Equto
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Posted - 2010.05.02 13:54:00 -
[255]
I believe that Oxides should be moved from basic processor to advanced processor since its T2
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Xoair
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Posted - 2010.05.02 15:26:00 -
[256]
ok, you get items to the planetary customs office. It has a 10k m3 hanger there (which could be much bigger...) This is a planet export depot, so why so small? there is no limit in stations...
So why does ccp not let me search these items in assets, or contract items from there to another toon. They should allow contracts or some way to transfer items. Do they really expect that everyone is only going to use one character to do this with? Options for managing this stuff on a larger scale are not great. I like the earlier posts about corp roles for this stuff. That would make great sense. Give me a corp hanger option in the customs office would work nicely.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.02 15:29:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Gnulpie
So, how do you justify magnitudes better yield in 0.0?
Sounds like CCP is moving a large chunk of the economy out of high-sec and into low-sec and null-sec.
In my humble and minimally experienced PI opinion, where opinions and things pulled from my rear may or may not be synonymous, given the low resource rates, the level of clicking, the six planet limit, the high cost of PI buildings and the expected hyper-competition in high-sec, I see PI as being dead in the water in high-sec. More importantly, if the null-sec alliances become self-sufficient, then you're going to see prices rise in high-sec and more folks will try to make a go of it in low-sec, which should make the pirates happy until the low-sec industrialists get organized and try to lock down parts of low-sec.
Note to self: stockpile blockade runners.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Taritura
Caldari Zaklad Utylizacji Odpadow
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Posted - 2010.05.02 16:44:00 -
[258]
I see some major BUGsi in PI.
First the biggest thing. Is that non routed products get Puffff.. destroyed..
It's great but someone forgot about some logic in production chain...
You building extractors t1 processors > t2 processors > t4 Product AND PUFF all that goes to trash beaucous you forgot to route the output to storage. You should give at lest some mechanics like it is now in space. No adding ittems to full can. And something like production lines. No resources should be delivered do factory until it doesn't delivers it's product ("factory slot") to storage. It will prevent many WTF where did my products go ...
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.02 17:06:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Taritura I see some major BUGsi in PI.
First the biggest thing. Is that non routed products get Puffff.. destroyed..
How about you became clever and route everything through storage/launchpad? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.05.02 20:23:00 -
[260]
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 02/05/2010 20:26:34 Three requests: can we please have the building window scalable, i whant to stretch it rather then work with 300x400 pixel window, on fullhd screen it is extremely uncomfortable, make it a normal scalable window.
Second request: can i have a tic box that hides routes that exclude eachother? (if i routed 500 microbes into my storage, and then routed then out to a prosessor, if you put 20 etractors and prosessors through the same storage unit, it becomes messey)
Third request is: if i have 5 extractors dumping metals into my cilo, can i SHIft- select all the iiincoming routes and create one large outgoing route, rather then creating 5 seperate ones if i want all of these materials to be delivered to the same processor?
And can we shoot the planetary lifts plz, and blow all the goodies to hell?
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Farlo Truan
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Posted - 2010.05.02 20:52:00 -
[261]
Suggestion: Instead of the four options of 30 minute, 5 hour, 24 hour, and 95 hours 45 minutes for Extractors deposits, how about a slider bar instead which lets you choose the time duration effecting how quickly you want to extract a resource. This would give more leeway for players to work around their times of play.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.02 23:49:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev Second request: can i have a tic box that hides routes that exclude eachother? (if i routed 500 microbes into my storage, and then routed then out to a prosessor, if you put 20 etractors and prosessors through the same storage unit, it becomes messey)
Why in the eternity you want to look at them there?
Quote: Third request is: if i have 5 extractors dumping metals into my cilo, can i SHIft- select all the iiincoming routes and create one large outgoing route, rather then creating 5 seperate ones if i want all of these materials to be delivered to the same processor?
Indeed. Just wait till stuff appears in Silo, then route it from storage. And no, it's the only right way to do it without unnecessary complication. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Equto
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Posted - 2010.05.03 00:37:00 -
[263]
I have to agree with others on the powergrid being out of balance on the elites. I currently built an entire planet worth of extractors ( 4 per resource and basic proccesors) and filled my powergrid to 99% however I only used around 5% of my cpu. That means that with an entire planet you use nearly no cpu.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.03 02:02:00 -
[264]
Ok - so I'm trying to build a functioning colony on a lava planet, but I can only build 3 extractors, 1 processor, and 1 storage facility before I run out of cpu. How can I upgrade my command center?? Also, what is the Lava Launchpad for if it says I already have one launchpad???
Also, I have one processor, but it needs Micro Organisms which produces bacteria. Where can I refine my materials or extract micro organisms??? I'm assuming they haven't added all of the buildings yet? How are people producing goods? I'm just filling up my storage with raw materials at the moment.... What am I missing here???
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.03 02:21:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Jim Luc Ok - so I'm trying to build a functioning colony on a lava planet, but I can only build 3 extractors, 1 processor, and 1 storage facility before I run out of cpu. How can I upgrade my command center?? Also, what is the Lava Launchpad for if it says I already have one launchpad???
Also, I have one processor, but it needs Micro Organisms which produces bacteria. Where can I refine my materials or extract micro organisms??? I'm assuming they haven't added all of the buildings yet? How are people producing goods? I'm just filling up my storage with raw materials at the moment.... What am I missing here???
First, try using something other than a Basic CC. They suck and should never be used. You can't place a Launchpad because you don't have enough CPU; it takes 1600 CPU, you only have 1008 max.
Second. Processor's schematics has a dropdown menu in it. click it to select other schematics that require other materials. ---
DesuSigs |
Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.03 03:41:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Horchan
Originally by: Jim Luc Ok - so I'm trying to build a functioning colony on a lava planet, but I can only build 3 extractors, 1 processor, and 1 storage facility before I run out of cpu. How can I upgrade my command center?? Also, what is the Lava Launchpad for if it says I already have one launchpad???
Also, I have one processor, but it needs Micro Organisms which produces bacteria. Where can I refine my materials or extract micro organisms??? I'm assuming they haven't added all of the buildings yet? How are people producing goods? I'm just filling up my storage with raw materials at the moment.... What am I missing here???
First, try using something other than a Basic CC. They suck and should never be used. You can't place a Launchpad because you don't have enough CPU; it takes 1600 CPU, you only have 1008 max.
Second. Processor's schematics has a dropdown menu in it. click it to select other schematics that require other materials.
Well - simply "not using the basic CC" is not how it should be, because I'm trying to use the system from the ground up. Build from the most simple system, so I get the hang of PI. Isn't there a way to upgrade CC structures from basic to the next tier and so on??? If not.... Why the F NOT????
Per your second suggestion, I'm not sure what you mean. Currently I try to route material from my extractor to my processor, but it says I have no materials that it takes. There are only two processors on a lava planet - none of which takes any of the raw materials that the extractors produce. What the hell am I supposed to do with the raw materials??? Isn't this supposed to work as a supply chain - manufacturing goods etc? What am I missing here???
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.05.03 04:29:00 -
[267]
Reminder: The planet distribution is not what it will be when Tyr is released. (CCP already said that they're going to mix it all up again during the rollout downtime.)
I think one really big change needs to be made to factories / processors. Factories and Processors should be setup as a pull/push model rather then everything being push-push. Simply put - Factories/Processors should only be able to pull from storage with output routed back into storage type PINs.
So you would setup your extractors to route raw materials into PINs with internal storage, then setup the factories to pull from those storage locations. When there's enough product, the factory starts up and runs a cycle, then shuts back down for a cycle if there's not enough product to run a second cycle immediately.
So as long as you have more then 6000 units going into storage every 30 minutes, your first tier processors will run non-stop once the first 6000 units is available. Excess resources can be used as a buffer for times when you need to redo your extraction points.
Because the factory only checks every 30 minutes, it won't be a big drain on the server. (Or you could set it so that it checks every 30 minutes, unless you train a skill to reduce that time by 3 minutes for every skill level.)
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.03 05:40:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Seamus Donohue on 03/05/2010 05:57:27 Edited by: Seamus Donohue on 03/05/2010 05:53:16 I like how Planetary Interaction has developed so far, but there are issues.
1) From the design, I get the feeling that CCP intends for players who spend less frequent attention to Planets to have lower extraction-per-time than players who spend more frequent attention. I don't think this is a good design decision, but even if I were to accept this, the amount of clicking to get raw materials extracted and routed is still excessive. Players should, at least, have the option to mass-select extractors and tell them "Extract the 24-hour deposit and route ALL products to the Storage Facility I select." I have 19 Noble Metal extractors set up on a barren planet, and each one of them needed 8 clicks to get a deposit selected and routed. I just discovered that that's 152 clicks, and a 10-second wait on each extractor survey. Please, make the mass-clicky go away or allow extractors to automatically go on to the next deposit at the end of their current deposit (which would defeat the "players who pay attention more frequently get more output" concept, but I am ALL in favor of defeating that concept).
A possible solution would be to have extractors autoroute their products to the nearest available storage or spaceport. If this causes links to get overloaded, then the player can always upgrade links to compensate, or rearrange links so that a extractors are arranged in sets, and each set is grouped with a single storage facility.
2) Most structures seem to require more Megawatts than Teraflops, but the Elite Barren Command Center has significantly more Teraflops than Megawatts. This seems to make the powergrid always the limiting factor. Are there situations where CPU is instead the limiting factor? I can't seem to find such a situation.
3) There doesn't seem to be a way to route materials that haven't arrived at a storage facility, yet, to a processor that will be using those materials. I have 19 Noble Metal Extractors linked to a Storage Facility, which is then linked to a Basic Industry Facility. The Basic Industry Facility is set to turn Noble Metals into Precious Metals, but I can't create a 6000-unit route from the Storage Facility to the Basic Industry Facility until the first Noble Metals actually show up 15 minutes later. I can only forward one of the incoming routes, and each particular incoming route is less than 6000 units. If I don't want to wait the 15 minutes, then that's a lot more clicking to forward all those routes.
Some form of autorouting seems to be the solution here, again. Have processors get their required materials autorouted from whatever other facility on the network has the materials needed. If one of the needed materials doesn't exist on the network, then it should autoroute the material on it's own when the material does show up (like, for example, the player has the material in question shipped down to a spaceport).
Edit #1:
4) I didn't realize until recently that the heat map doesn't update automatically when an extractor starts work. I just watched my tight clusters of extractors turn hotspots into coldspots. When the player is moving the mouse to choose the placement of a new extractor, it would help to have a circle indicate the general area-of-effect of an extractor.
Edit #2:
Given that extracting resources changes the heat map, I see this as an additional reason to make the mass-clicky (mentioned in item 1, above) go away. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.03 06:35:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Jim Luc Well - simply "not using the basic CC" is not how it should be, because I'm trying to use the system from the ground up. Build from the most simple system, so I get the hang of PI. Isn't there a way to upgrade CC structures from basic to the next tier and so on??? If not.... Why the F NOT????
Per your second suggestion, I'm not sure what you mean. Currently I try to route material from my extractor to my processor, but it says I have no materials that it takes. There are only two processors on a lava planet - none of which takes any of the raw materials that the extractors produce. What the hell am I supposed to do with the raw materials??? Isn't this supposed to work as a supply chain - manufacturing goods etc? What am I missing here???
I'll be nice and step you through it.
The reason Basic CC's are worthless is because they require NO SKILLS to use. Ignoring the fact we were all granted the skill to use Elite CC's, the skill will be easy to train to 3 in under a day, which grants access to Improved CC's. If you insist on learning "from the ground up", use a Standard or Improved CC. As of this build, you can't upgrade CC's. Whether this is an oversight by CCP or an intended game mechanic is yet to be determined.
Processors. You're making them too hard. You have to select the schematic first before you can route things to it.
Place the Processor, click on it, select Schematics. At the very top of a Basic one it will say "Bacteria". Click there. Note the long list of new schematics you can pick. Find the schematic that uses whatever resource you are extracting and click it. Then click the "Submit" on the bottom of the Processor window. NOW you can route said resource to your Processor. ---
DesuSigs |
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.05.03 09:13:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Xoair ok, you get items to the planetary customs office. It has a 10k m3 hanger there (which could be much bigger...) This is a planet export depot, so why so small? there is no limit in stations...
So why does ccp not let me search these items in assets, or contract items from there to another toon. They should allow contracts or some way to transfer items. Do they really expect that everyone is only going to use one character to do this with? Options for managing this stuff on a larger scale are not great. I like the earlier posts about corp roles for this stuff. That would make great sense. Give me a corp hanger option in the customs office would work nicely.
Because PI in nullsec is already 99,9% safe. With that changes it would be 100% safe. _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
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Minuki Zedra
Omega Engineering Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.05.03 10:47:00 -
[271]
So far PI seems to be progressing pretty well. I've come up with a decent semi-standardized layout for my pins which makes best use of the current CPU/Powergrid from a CC, but Links seem to be excessive in the amount they consume - I've at most used just over 23% of the 10,000m3 limit. On larger radius worlds, such as Gas giants, the kilometer distance really eats CPU/Powergrid, and leaves little for actually establishing a network of a similar global coverage to other worlds. Basing a Links cost on length compared to planets circumference rather than to the actual km it covers would balance that issue.
Creating routes from multiple structures does, as other people have already stated here, takes a gawd awful number of mouse clicks and moving around screen. Having a few default choices available from menu (nearest Storage, Processors which can accept the resource/product, nearest Starport etc) could be a possible solution (with most logical being automatically selected before you go into route menu) saving the player all that mouse ergonomics moving view around to find where they want to route to.
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Hasnpbeard
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Posted - 2010.05.03 11:25:00 -
[272]
The whole system of links, routes, need to transport materials form one to the other and whatnot is AWFUL and redundant.
I would welcome a modular command center that can be upgraded in ONE place without the whole network hassle.
You succeeded in creating a toybox for full-time industrial players who love to play simspace and probably having a pet project for creative devs, they have done this job very good, but too good.
The stated goal of CCP was "to get new players into PI very easily from the start", with this overly complex system you failed horribly in doing so.
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Cygwin Gaad
Caldari The Element Syndicate Hand That Feeds
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Posted - 2010.05.03 12:35:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Hasnpbeard
The whole system of links, routes, need to transport materials form one to the other and whatnot is AWFUL and redundant.
I would welcome a modular command center that can be upgraded in ONE place without the whole network hassle.
You succeeded in creating a toybox for full-time industrial players who love to play simspace and probably having a pet project for creative devs, they have done this job very good, but too good.
The stated goal of CCP was "to get new players into PI very easily from the start", with this overly complex system you failed horribly in doing so.
The goal was not something that new players could get into easily from the start, it was to have low entry requirements so anyone could start to. but that does not mean it needs to be simple. it means it has low skill requirements.
Reactions have low skill requirements (none) but require quite a sizable amount of player knowledge to operate. PI is similar. its easy to get into (relatively) but not necessarily for newbs.
on a side note, looking up autotrophs on wiki, in EvE you can mine for fish. -
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.05.03 12:57:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 03/05/2010 12:57:53 can we have basic route that has 10 times lower capacity and 10 times lower powergrid cpu requirements, because even if i try really hard, i did not manage to get a single route over 15 percent with an elite pin. Also i can imagine transportuing goods on a gas planet might be less difficult then transporting goods on a lava planet. Airports for transport anyone/ where you are charged per each unit transported instead? SO you can connect posessor on the other end of the planet that only produces a very small amount of goods? I think volumes of stuff produced need to be increased, i am harveting the entire planet for livestock, and i get 5 sheep produced every hour.. common.....I feel like a poor farmer, not an immortal demigod.
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Deleware
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Posted - 2010.05.03 15:06:00 -
[275]
It would be cool to have a Overview type of Window for a Planet, where you can see the rest amount of time for extractors. Maybe like the normal overview (which stays when you are in space anyways). Just add the Extractors to the Object list, that way people can make there own Planetary Tab in the Overview. And Links as well if it's not to much.
Other than that, it's really cool! I love it.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.03 15:30:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Horchan
Originally by: Jim Luc Well - simply "not using the basic CC" is not how it should be, because I'm trying to use the system from the ground up. Build from the most simple system, so I get the hang of PI. Isn't there a way to upgrade CC structures from basic to the next tier and so on??? If not.... Why the F NOT????
Per your second suggestion, I'm not sure what you mean. Currently I try to route material from my extractor to my processor, but it says I have no materials that it takes. There are only two processors on a lava planet - none of which takes any of the raw materials that the extractors produce. What the hell am I supposed to do with the raw materials??? Isn't this supposed to work as a supply chain - manufacturing goods etc? What am I missing here???
I'll be nice and step you through it.
The reason Basic CC's are worthless is because they require NO SKILLS to use. Ignoring the fact we were all granted the skill to use Elite CC's, the skill will be easy to train to 3 in under a day, which grants access to Improved CC's. If you insist on learning "from the ground up", use a Standard or Improved CC. As of this build, you can't upgrade CC's. Whether this is an oversight by CCP or an intended game mechanic is yet to be determined.
Processors. You're making them too hard. You have to select the schematic first before you can route things to it.
Place the Processor, click on it, select Schematics. At the very top of a Basic one it will say "Bacteria". Click there. Note the long list of new schematics you can pick. Find the schematic that uses whatever resource you are extracting and click it. Then click the "Submit" on the bottom of the Processor window. NOW you can route said resource to your Processor.
Wow, ok I'll try that.
CCP really has LOTS of work left if they want this to be easy for n00bs. As a game designer and developer myself, the first bits of a colony should be really simple to grasp, almost tutorial-like. As you progress, or if you build more advanced CC units, then it can get more complicated.
Also, what's up with the 23 second "busy" timer??? Why don't we have a little circle telling us the system is busy? It's not very intuitive, but if the reason is to reduce lag, then I guess we have no choice. Still.... I would never play Age of Empires or Civilization if I had to wait 23 seconds between placing my buildings. Even if I had a "submit" button. At least show us when the timer will be ready.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.03 17:14:00 -
[277]
Two things absolutely, without a doubt, need to be fixed. - You can only interact with a planet once every 30 seconds. - When I re-start production on an extractor, I scan for deposits, wait for it to scan, pick one out, and hit Submit. Then I need to hit a second, completely unrelated Submit button for it to actually start mining.
Make things easier to work with, not harder. Unnecessary delays and excessive clicks are things you need to minimize.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.03 18:58:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 03/05/2010 17:29:08 Three things absolutely, without a doubt, need to be fixed. - You can only interact with a planet once every 30 seconds. - When I re-start production on an extractor, I scan for deposits, wait for it to scan, pick one out, and hit Submit. Then I need to hit a second, completely unrelated Submit button for it to actually start mining. - When I start mining, I can only route a number of units per cycle equal to what I mine at that time. So if I ever start producing more than that, the excess is lost unless I route the stuff again. Either just have it default to "Route all" and have that adjust to future production, or at least allow us to input numbers higher than current production. Alternately, just eliminate routeing completely, and have storage space on planet be a commons as long as everything is linked together. The details of routeing are just busy work anyways.
Make things easier to work with, not harder. Unnecessary delays and excessive clicks are things you need to minimize.
Also, a couple other balance issues. First, the relation of the 24h and 96h deposits needs to be changed - the 96 doesn't produce enough in comparison. It takes over 3 days for the 96h deposit to make more in total than the 24h. That number should be perhaps two days. Second, I'm not seeing any way to use all my CPU. Roads use essentially equal amounts of both, and most facilities use more PG than CPU, while CCs produce much more CPU than PG. Either give us the ability to create generator stations(use CPU, produce PG), or rejig the numbers so that both are meaningful limits, probably by making roads use more CPU and less PG.
Agreed - I'm sure the 30 second timer was added to deal with the server aspects and things like that, however it ruins gameplay. There are other ways to eliminate this need for a timer, right?
When I sell items in my inventory, there isn't a timer for each transaction.
When I change direction in my ship, there isn't a timer for each maneuver I do with my ship.
Isn't it possible to separate each planet away from the rest of the servers, and update each planet's PI setup once every 30 seconds, however removing the timer for the user. Basically allow users to make changes, which saves to a separate server, and then that separate server updates the main server on a delayed interval. This should reduce the load on the main server, while allowing us the freedom to play without any needless stop/start 30 second timers.
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.03 19:46:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Agreed - I'm sure the 30 second timer was added to deal with the server aspects and things like that, however it ruins gameplay. There are other ways to eliminate this need for a timer, right?
When I sell items in my inventory, there isn't a timer for each transaction.
When I change direction in my ship, there isn't a timer for each maneuver I do with my ship.
Isn't it possible to separate each planet away from the rest of the servers, and update each planet's PI setup once every 30 seconds, however removing the timer for the user. Basically allow users to make changes, which saves to a separate server, and then that separate server updates the main server on a delayed interval. This should reduce the load on the main server, while allowing us the freedom to play without any needless stop/start 30 second timers.
1st, I can't agree that the 30 second submit interval is in the way of anything. I plop down my CC and hit submit, plop down extractors, storage, processors and link them up and hit submit. Survey the extractors, select the resources and route the same to storage facility. Hit submit.
Nowhere between those submits do i spend LESS than 30 seconds setting stuff up.
2nd, why don't you donate a farm quality server to CCP then so they can set that up. Even if you had a good server collecting dust to spare or could afford one i doubt you would do so. The point is, why should CCP set up a separate server JUST so people can hit the submit button with lesser intervals?
Just make sure you complete more tasks in your edits before you hit submit and all should be well.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.03 20:17:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Cadde on 03/05/2010 20:20:09 Right, feedback...
Extractors
- Need the ability to select many of the same type and hit survey where it would then show the average numbers and select the interval you want.
- Need the ability to select many of the same type and routing (hardcoded) everything they produce to a storage facility.
- Have an area of influence to show just how much resources they can reach.
- Be upgradable to increase their range and/or extraction capacity. (This eliminates the need to place lots of them in the same general area.)
Processing facilities
- Should have the option to only accept materials when it's ready for another cycle as to not hog 99% of the materials each.
- Should have a button that says "expedite transfer"
Links
- Should take less powergrid and more CPU.
- Should have less capacity making the upgrade option feasible.
Misc
- Wanna see re-balancing of the production chain to instill certainty that PI can be profitable after patch day.
- Wanna see more resources on planets. (As mentioned in the op but liek naow!)
- Wanna see ICONS before release plox
- Want some measure of just how much of each material (in total) is routed so that i won't have to open excel just to make sure my extractors are producing enough to keep my processors busy.
- Upgradable storage facility perhaps?
- The ability to scan a spot on a planet to see what an extractor placed there might be able to achieve.
For all else, use common sense. (There might be more to it but that is off the top of my head)
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.03 20:33:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 03/05/2010 20:36:20
Maybe add a new PIN: Nuclear Power Plant * CPU Requirment: 10000 * Grid Requirement: -8000 (adds more grid at the expense of CPU). No idea on actual numbers. These are just wild guesses.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.03 20:55:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Cadde
Originally by: Jim Luc
Agreed - I'm sure the 30 second timer was added to deal with the server aspects and things like that, however it ruins gameplay. There are other ways to eliminate this need for a timer, right?
When I sell items in my inventory, there isn't a timer for each transaction.
When I change direction in my ship, there isn't a timer for each maneuver I do with my ship.
Isn't it possible to separate each planet away from the rest of the servers, and update each planet's PI setup once every 30 seconds, however removing the timer for the user. Basically allow users to make changes, which saves to a separate server, and then that separate server updates the main server on a delayed interval. This should reduce the load on the main server, while allowing us the freedom to play without any needless stop/start 30 second timers.
1st, I can't agree that the 30 second submit interval is in the way of anything. I plop down my CC and hit submit, plop down extractors, storage, processors and link them up and hit submit. Survey the extractors, select the resources and route the same to storage facility. Hit submit.
Nowhere between those submits do i spend LESS than 30 seconds setting stuff up.
2nd, why don't you donate a farm quality server to CCP then so they can set that up. Even if you had a good server collecting dust to spare or could afford one i doubt you would do so. The point is, why should CCP set up a separate server JUST so people can hit the submit button with lesser intervals?
Just make sure you complete more tasks in your edits before you hit submit and all should be well.
This is a short-sighted view, as in its current iteration PI is very simple, and you can plop down one or two extractors and a reactor, then click submit. Gameplay-wise, it's not very intuitive (or you'd see similar timers on other multiplayer games).
Your quip about the servers is just obnoxious.
PI is meant as a way to bring RTS players to the game. Thus, it should have an RTS taste to it, and be addicting to the newest of players, and profitable and still fun for the more advanced industry types.
Also - currently everyone will just wait a few hours for their skills to advance to level 3, and never purchase the basic Command structure. To combat this - I propose higher CC units cannot be purchased on the open market - only upgraded to. The same goes for other upgrades. This way, a player with high skills still has to work hard to develop a profitable colony. The same goes for people with lower skills, and will allow for more reason to deploy ground troops on a colony instead of just nuking and starting over from scratch.
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Equto
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Posted - 2010.05.04 02:36:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Jim Luc
This is a short-sighted view, as in its current iteration PI is very simple, and you can plop down one or two extractors and a reactor, then click submit. Gameplay-wise, it's not very intuitive (or you'd see similar timers on other multiplayer games).
Your quip about the servers is just obnoxious.
PI is meant as a way to bring RTS players to the game. Thus, it should have an RTS taste to it, and be addicting to the newest of players, and profitable and still fun for the more advanced industry types.
Also - currently everyone will just wait a few hours for their skills to advance to level 3, and never purchase the basic Command structure. To combat this - I propose higher CC units cannot be purchased on the open market - only upgraded to. The same goes for other upgrades. This way, a player with high skills still has to work hard to develop a profitable colony. The same goes for people with lower skills, and will allow for more reason to deploy ground troops on a colony instead of just nuking and starting over from scratch.
You have obviously missed the point of the 30 second time and what you can do between them but let me give you an idea of why its necessary since I am certified in setting up medium to large networks and have designed several websites that involve mass request.
Lets say it takes the server .01 second to do a simple PI request( place an extractor) in this request would also have to be your character information, planet, location on planet, and some sort of index to tell the server which extractor it is as well as extractor information. Lets say that 1000 hit submit every second setting up their networks. It will take the server 10 seconds to complete this request ( exaggerated as there are several servers) and if everyone hits that same submit button every second setting up their networks the server will quickly not be able to process the other data it needs like ships what they have turned on and their health.
By changing it to every 30 seconds you make it so that the chances of those 1000 people sending the submit button at the same time very low and even when it does happen it has time to process the request before it gets hammered again. However while waiting on that 30 second time you can place more than one extractor and link the extractors to storage facility and make processors. By settings up more than one building per submit you also lessen the strain on the server as it only has to send planet and character information once as opposed to however many extractors you setup. After setting up the buildings you then have 30 seconds to set routes select which extractors extract what and how fast as well as determine what processors will produce.
That is the reason I believe that the 30 second time exist and should not be removed however a little circle that rotates like a stop watch showing you how long you have left should not take long to program.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.05.04 03:06:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Driven Marcelli ... oh and ENOGH WITH THE !@#$ RESOURCE REMAPS ALREADY
DEFINITALY NOT SIGNED. That's the best part of it.. Never ever do I want to see STATIC resources in EVE again as it is with moon-goo. Thanks for this CCP, love you!
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.04 03:43:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Equto
Originally by: Jim Luc
This is a short-sighted view, as in its current iteration PI is very simple, and you can plop down one or two extractors and a reactor, then click submit. Gameplay-wise, it's not very intuitive (or you'd see similar timers on other multiplayer games).
Your quip about the servers is just obnoxious.
PI is meant as a way to bring RTS players to the game. Thus, it should have an RTS taste to it, and be addicting to the newest of players, and profitable and still fun for the more advanced industry types.
Also - currently everyone will just wait a few hours for their skills to advance to level 3, and never purchase the basic Command structure. To combat this - I propose higher CC units cannot be purchased on the open market - only upgraded to. The same goes for other upgrades. This way, a player with high skills still has to work hard to develop a profitable colony. The same goes for people with lower skills, and will allow for more reason to deploy ground troops on a colony instead of just nuking and starting over from scratch.
You have obviously missed the point of the 30 second time and what you can do between them but let me give you an idea of why its necessary since I am certified in setting up medium to large networks and have designed several websites that involve mass request.
Lets say it takes the server .01 second to do a simple PI request( place an extractor) in this request would also have to be your character information, planet, location on planet, and some sort of index to tell the server which extractor it is as well as extractor information. Lets say that 1000 hit submit every second setting up their networks. It will take the server 10 seconds to complete this request ( exaggerated as there are several servers) and if everyone hits that same submit button every second setting up their networks the server will quickly not be able to process the other data it needs like ships what they have turned on and their health.
By changing it to every 30 seconds you make it so that the chances of those 1000 people sending the submit button at the same time very low and even when it does happen it has time to process the request before it gets hammered again. However while waiting on that 30 second time you can place more than one extractor and link the extractors to storage facility and make processors. By settings up more than one building per submit you also lessen the strain on the server as it only has to send planet and character information once as opposed to however many extractors you setup. After setting up the buildings you then have 30 seconds to set routes select which extractors extract what and how fast as well as determine what processors will produce.
That is the reason I believe that the 30 second time exist and should not be removed however a little circle that rotates like a stop watch showing you how long you have left should not take long to program.
Yeah - I understand the reasoning behind the 30 second timer, and I don't have experience designing server architecture, however I would think they could separate the PI from the rest of EVE - saving the current state of the planets (and in the future, stations) to an external server - and then sending everything it has to the main server every 30 seconds, or even ever minute. You can even still have a submit button, which can act as a "polite" buffer. The developers can also quickly create a catch so someone spamming a button won't keep sending the server requests every time they press a button.
Little things that I add to my flash applications, and what we do in iPhone and iPad development, to keep the users experience as seamless as possible without overloading the server with too many requests. I would think they can add these things to make the workflow a bit more smooth. A circular countdown graphic and similar UI elements are much needed.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.05.04 04:31:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Jim Luc ... A circular countdown graphic and similar UI elements are much needed.
Saying this since PIv1.. ANY visible Countdown would do..
I know exactly what the most asked question in help-channel will be if this UI stays without a visible timer.. (just like the chat-bubble thingy for getting into other channels). Please CCP, have mercy!!!
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Piotyr Petrovsky
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Posted - 2010.05.04 05:06:00 -
[287]
OK, HOPING that the high-sec resources are what you will pin them to when 50,000 extractors (or whatever number you have in mind) are all plopped down by everyone and their uncle on every planet in high-sec, and that the 0.0 levels are for ANY planet that no one is yet on. This would tend to PUSH people out when they want to do it, rather than your usual PULL way of 'Oh look! These planets out here of the exact same type just GUSH resources for no real reason!'
You KNOW the star types of each system, instead of a sec status resource distribution, index the star type and the planet type and size and orbit position to get a resource distribution...ANYTHING other than 0.0 just gets more stuff for no good reason.
Null sec has the shattered planets? Fine, that's OK. Null sec maybe has the most of a certain star type? Cool with me too as that means it's at a different time of galactic evolution! Just don't take the cheesy way out and say 0.0 gets more stuff 'cause we say so--build the box and fill it with sand and we'll deplete hi-sec soon enough!
But if you ask your planet consultant, I'm sure he'll tell you that the ability of the human race to significantly deplete a gas giant of any given resource is a pretty silly concept--so even high-sec gas giants should always spew forth lots and lots of stuff and not ever noticably 'deplete' no matter how many extractors are running, but other resources would have different rates--some significantly faster to deplete.
That's at level 1 extraction, though. If you take the idea to add levels to the extractors (and then the scanning ability as well) and also COORDINATES you'd add these things (using oil as an example):
1 bubbling crude - Jed Clampett strikes it rich 2 shallow drilling 3 deep drilling/ocean drilling 4 oil shale extraction 5 oil sand extraction
So a planet can be pretty much pinned to the bottom end of the resource scale at level 1, BUT, if no one has tapped level 2 yet, then you win!
You need the extractor skill to plant one the right level, so with coords you get the mini-profession of surveyor! Hire someone to scan for level 4 oil on your planet instead of drilling random dry holes--and hope he's not a scammer! (Corps would benefit since you know your corp-mate.)
Scanning and extracting would be MEGA skills, like x15 or x20; the effect would be for planets to deplete and spring back into vogue with higher skills then deplete again...for entry level give a 'basic' extractor that is a x1 skill and can extract ANYTHING on the planet but at a much reduced rate. You'd see like just two choices for each of the resources instead of four choices for a specific extractor type.
ABOVE ALL ELSE PLEASE IMPLEMENT THIS NEXT BIT!
Get rid of the import/export tax and replace it with the way more realistic 'gravity tax'! Which is to say it's the cost to launch your shuttle out of a given gravity well.
You already KNOW the escape velocity of all your planets; all you need to do is add a MASS to all the stuff and keep the volume, then you can fit 10 tons or 10,000 m3 into your shuttle, and then calculate the launch cost as fuel needed to make the shuttle get off the planet for the overall shuttle mass + cargo mass.
This adds a nifty dimension to it all--gas giants you are gonna export raw gas since gas is WAYYY more compressible than water (need to be able to extract hydrogen somewhere now) and other worlds would have other cut-off points for the 'export or build here decision?' It lets us find the sweet spots to do things in the most efficient way using ALL the planets. (BTW, import would be 'free' or very minimal cost, just glide a cargo can down to the surface.)
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.04 06:04:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Jim Luc PI is meant as a way to bring RTS players to the game. Thus, it should have an RTS taste to it, and be addicting to the newest of players, and profitable and still fun for the more advanced industry types.]
Where do you get this from? CCP hasn't said a damn thing about RTS players. The only games they mentioned it would be similar to would be Civilization and SimCity, neither of which are RTSes.
PI shouldn't have anything to do with RTSes.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.04 08:22:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Jim Luc PI is meant as a way to bring RTS players to the game. Thus, it should have an RTS taste to it, and be addicting to the newest of players, and profitable and still fun for the more advanced industry types.]
Where do you get this from? CCP hasn't said a damn thing about RTS players. The only games they mentioned it would be similar to would be Civilization and SimCity, neither of which are RTSes.
PI shouldn't have anything to do with RTSes.
At fanfest and in numerous interviews comparisons were made with Sim City and Civilization - that their goal was to give it a similar vibe.
Bottom line - this should be more fun than spreadsheets with nice graphics. Moon and asteroid mining too.
I have been able to play around a bit more with it, and I've got to say it's starting to shape up, at least for this simplistic launch.
One thing I've gotta mention though: PLEASE SIMPLIFY THE LIST OF INPUTS BY PLANET AND MATERIAL TYPE!!! I found the little dropdown list (way too unnoticeable) and scrolled through each, and unfortunately the list of input materials isn't listed in the drop down, so I had to click on each one to find out if it would work with my extractor (plasma planet - basic metals). It was difficult and REALLY IRRITATING to scroll through searching for something that would refine my metals. Finall I found something. Now I'm not sure what I'm making or what the point of it all is. This should be explained in the final version and SIMPLIFIED. Keep it complex, ie for the more advanced player, but make it accessible and easy to see what goes with what, and what the final product is and what is required to manufacture it. Right now my head explodes with boredom and I'd hate for new players to run away from the game because its learning curve is too steep.
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Tas Nok
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Posted - 2010.05.04 09:38:00 -
[290]
I've been at PI now for 3 weeks and have read the threads, and finally have some feedback:
- The most striking aspect is that there 5? 6? levels of command centers; I think I would prefer to have T1 CC's then 1 or 2 named versions and then a T2 version, not sure which race would put out faction command centers.
- Along with this and the ongoing PG issues, it would be nice if our current skills actually mattered and my engineering 5 would up my PG output a bit so on Gas Planets I'm not limited to extractor farms all next to each other.
- Some have suggested that distance be calculated as a percent of the planet distance, I disagree, I do think upgrades to the links ought to make them use LESS CPU tho, this will make upgrades useful.
- I am being forced to export an awful lot of refined materials because only in a few cases can I produce something useful on one planet, to fix some of this and to cut down on the whining about only 6 planets... I think there ought to be 6 materials on each planet not the current 5, it would basically have the same effect allowing only a handful of planets to fulfill most or all production needs.
- I'm a bit struck by the sheer cost of all the links and pins, I wasn't really working to be cost effective, just learning, but I've blown through 40 mil on various setups in just the past 7 days and haven't gotten a great deal to show for it, that is gonna be a breaker for the noobs.
- Speaking of cost...Why is it I need to decommission/destroy my extractors to move to a new spot?? It costs nothing to un-anchor a POS and its various bits, why is there an upfront (better not screw this up!) cost on placing your structures... that is really odd. (otoh, all the pins, and the customs office magically appearing is also a bit odd)
- There really needs to be a corp role for this, I ought to be able to set up my network(s) then assign them (corp access-Planetary) and anyone in corp can manage them the same as you would a POS, move materials, start processes etc....
- And finally.. I've made a couple T3 materials, but not in quantity yet, but on sisi I'm not governed by cost restraints, so I keep mixing and matching as I please... (and believe me I do understand the balancing is coming) but has ANYONE made enough 'stuff' to build ANYTHING from the new BPO's cause right now without a corp/alliance wide effort it's looking like they are going to be a tad bit impossible to create solo or even with a small corp.
And just some small non-PI notes: with Moveme bot gone I'm back to AP everywhere but AP seems to stop now and then, BR forthcoming if I can get it to happen again. Also in the scanning window, double clicking a probe no longer centers on the screen, please, please put that back, it is a royal pain to rotate the screen all over to see what you are doing. Thx
Psychotherapy is expensive, Bubble wrap is cheap. |
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Sjolus
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.05.04 10:26:00 -
[291]
Baww, where's todays scrumcycle? :(
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JeanLuc Blindtard
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Posted - 2010.05.04 11:23:00 -
[292]
Ok quick post before I forget about it :)
After a mine/extractor is empty the route is still up.
These is the same for transiting. I've let all my mines dry up but under the routes tab they still show as outgoing (or transiting where is the case).
Same thing for storage btw. Nothing comes in anymore but it is still showing as incoming.
I think it should automatically delete when the mine is no longer producing goods. :)
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.05.04 11:51:00 -
[293]
Originally by: JeanLuc Blindtard Ok quick post before I forget about it :)
After a mine/extractor is empty the route is still up.
These is the same for transiting. I've let all my mines dry up but under the routes tab they still show as outgoing (or transiting where is the case).
Same thing for storage btw. Nothing comes in anymore but it is still showing as incoming.
I think it should automatically delete when the mine is no longer producing goods. :)
Not sure that I agree with that. My normal cycle for working is:
- setup an extractor field - survey and pick the 24h option (I want a 20h option) - route everything - wait 24h - come back, survey again, no need to route again - (rarely) move extractors
If routes deleted themselves, I would be looking at double the number of clicks each day to manage extractors. Right now, you can setup a basic strip-mine in about 30 minutes, then only spend maybe 10 minutes per day maintaining it.
My estimates based on current costs is that if you're moving extractors more often then every 10-14 days, you're going to lose money.
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Xenofarion
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.04 13:08:00 -
[294]
My points:
- The survey times need to be redone imo. Either make it a variable slider (in 1h steps) or other time scales. The jump between 5h and 24h is way to steep (Not that 5h is useful for anyone with a Job rl).
- We WILL need a grouping option for surveying and routing. Else PI will just become "click-o-mania". I just have one Planet with 15 harvesters atm, but it's already a major PITA to manage it all in my opinion.
As far as I can see, "overdue" harvested materials (e.g. Factory can just take 50 units more, but next cycle there are 600 incoming) get wasted, correct? (i.e. 550 units lost)
I failed to set up a storage facility between factory and harvesters as "buffer" since I wasn't able to route materials out of the storage facility on an automatic basis.
Also, IMO it would be a great idea to enable general routing for Storage facilities, Command Centers and Starbases, too.
Imagine following Setup: Harvesters --> Factory --> Storage Facility --> Starbase.
If I could route the storage to the starbase now, the starbase would get filled until it's full and the overdue products remain in the storage, so I don't have to send them to the starbase manually every time (and perhaps leading to a bursting full storage, but empty starbase).
Bugs:
- If you plant a command center, tear it down and want to build a new one, you get the error "can't put up more than one", although the old one is definitely gone
- "There was a problem accessing [system] VIII", when I try to enter Planet Mode. The whole Ship Health bar thingy, modules and brackets disappear after this error until reboot or successful entering of an other planet. My colony is abandoned
just my two cents -- those who can, do those who can't, complain |
Equto
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Posted - 2010.05.04 13:33:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Equto
Originally by: Jim Luc
-snip-
Yeah - I understand the reasoning behind the 30 second timer, and I don't have experience designing server architecture, however I would think they could separate the PI from the rest of EVE - saving the current state of the planets (and in the future, stations) to an external server - and then sending everything it has to the main server every 30 seconds, or even ever minute. You can even still have a submit button, which can act as a "polite" buffer. The developers can also quickly create a catch so someone spamming a button won't keep sending the server requests every time they press a button.
-snip-
I understand you logic jim luc however that would mean having to buy anywhere from 10-50 new servers to stick in a separate farm in order to maintain one function as well as a possible entire rewrite of the code. Since I assume you are a programmer I think you understand the problems with entire code rewrites at this time in a development cycle and how much easier a simple countdown clock/image would be.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2010.05.04 14:15:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Jim Luc
At fanfest and in numerous interviews comparisons were made with Sim City and Civilization - that their goal was to give it a similar vibe.
Civ and Sim City are not RTS games. Civilization is a TBS and I have no idea what Sim City is. RTS denotes something like Supreme Commander, C&C, Homeworld, Company Of Heroes, Starcraft 2 and so forth.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:39:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Terranid Meester
Originally by: Jim Luc
At fanfest and in numerous interviews comparisons were made with Sim City and Civilization - that their goal was to give it a similar vibe.
Civ and Sim City are not RTS games. Civilization is a TBS and I have no idea what Sim City is. RTS denotes something like Supreme Commander, C&C, Homeworld, Company Of Heroes, Starcraft 2 and so forth.
You say tomato, I say hippopotamus!
Basically I'm looking for a slick navigation, easy to understand layout, simple flow of products - no need for me to print a bunch of spreadsheets unless I get much MUCH more advanced and want to make the billions instead of the millions. Currently an external spreadsheet is needed just to decipher what produces what. This is unacceptable.
Also, I liked the idea of "farming" my own unique little pocket of planet. Rule like a nice leader, or with tyranny.... Currently it's planet mining for uber-nerds.
I do love the planets though, I think they upped the resolution, but on the closest zoom they should up the res a bit more.
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:44:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Xenofarion As far as I can see, "overdue" harvested materials (e.g. Factory can just take 50 units more, but next cycle there are 600 incoming) get wasted, correct? (i.e. 550 units lost)
I setup (3) test planets last night to test this out. Here's the stats after 10 hours on a Gas Planet where I'm making Oxygen. I won't have final numbers for another 14-16 hours.
A) extractors -> processor -> storage (2501 per 15 minutes) - 240 units of Oxygen produced
An unbuffered setup where extractors directly feed a processor. Since I'm not pulling more then 3000/15m, I'm not overloading the processor. But when an extractor tries to shove its 380-420 units/15m into the processor, I suspect that overage is getting lost rather then rolled into the next cycle's buffer.
B) extractors -> storage -> processor -> storage (2461 per 15 min) - 300 units of Oxygen produced
This planet, where the extractors feed a storage silo, is producing faster then planet A. Even though we're pulling *less* units per cycle.
The bad part about this setup is that I have to online the extractors, then wait 15 minutes before I can *easily* route product out of the storage and into the processor.
If processors could be setup so that you tell them "get your materials from this storage location", then you could configure everything all at once.
C) extractors -> storage -> processor -> storage (4093 per 15 min) - 360 units of Oxygen produced, 35,534 raw Noble Gas in the storage buffer
Planet C is a bigger setup where I'm harvesting way more Noble Gas then I can process per cycle, so there's a lot of raw materials building up in the buffer storage. In fact, it will take about 32 hours for the processor to process all of the gas that I'll be harvesting in a 24h period.
That's actually a good thing, because it means that I can wait past the current 24h extractor period and the processor will keep working. So I have plenty of time to resurvey my extractors and start them up again.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.04 16:58:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob I setup (3) test planets last night to test this out. Here's the stats after 10 hours on a Gas Planet where I'm making Oxygen. I won't have final numbers for another 14-16 hours.
A) extractors -> processor -> storage (2501 per 15 minutes) - 240 units of Oxygen produced
An unbuffered setup where extractors directly feed a processor. Since I'm not pulling more then 3000/15m, I'm not overloading the processor. But when an extractor tries to shove its 380-420 units/15m into the processor, I suspect that overage is getting lost rather then rolled into the next cycle's buffer.
Yes it gets lost.
Quote: B) extractors -> storage -> processor -> storage (2461 per 15 min) - 300 units of Oxygen produced
This planet, where the extractors feed a storage silo, is producing faster then planet A. Even though we're pulling *less* units per cycle.
Since we're not loosing out harvesting cycles, yes.
Quote: The bad part about this setup is that I have to online the extractors, then wait 15 minutes before I can *easily* route product out of the storage and into the processor.
It's not actually bad as you do it only once.
Quote: If processors could be setup so that you tell them "get your materials from this storage location", then you could configure everything all at once.
That is the way I wish it work, and remove the inner storage from processors altogether. Just place source materials along with results to the routing (second) tab and allow to setup incoming routes from there. There could be restriction to have at least single unit of desirable item in storage for route to activate, but it's all a minor annoyances. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Sanche Tehkeli
Gallente Bionesis Technologies Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:03:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob
Originally by: Xenofarion As far as I can see, "overdue" harvested materials (e.g. Factory can just take 50 units more, but next cycle there are 600 incoming) get wasted, correct? (i.e. 550 units lost)
I setup (3) test planets last night to test this out. Here's the stats after 10 hours on a Gas Planet where I'm making Oxygen. I won't have final numbers for another 14-16 hours.
A) extractors -> processor -> storage (2501 per 15 minutes) - 240 units of Oxygen produced
An unbuffered setup where extractors directly feed a processor. Since I'm not pulling more then 3000/15m, I'm not overloading the processor. But when an extractor tries to shove its 380-420 units/15m into the processor, I suspect that overage is getting lost rather then rolled into the next cycle's buffer.
B) extractors -> storage -> processor -> storage (2461 per 15 min) - 300 units of Oxygen produced
This planet, where the extractors feed a storage silo, is producing faster then planet A. Even though we're pulling *less* units per cycle.
The bad part about this setup is that I have to online the extractors, then wait 15 minutes before I can *easily* route product out of the storage and into the processor.
If processors could be setup so that you tell them "get your materials from this storage location", then you could configure everything all at once.
C) extractors -> storage -> processor -> storage (4093 per 15 min) - 360 units of Oxygen produced, 35,534 raw Noble Gas in the storage buffer
Planet C is a bigger setup where I'm harvesting way more Noble Gas then I can process per cycle, so there's a lot of raw materials building up in the buffer storage. In fact, it will take about 32 hours for the processor to process all of the gas that I'll be harvesting in a 24h period.
That's actually a good thing, because it means that I can wait past the current 24h extractor period and the processor will keep working. So I have plenty of time to resurvey my extractors and start them up again.
That's the way I do, it works well. In fact, if you're casual to PI (not logged in all the time with eyes on every planetary stuff) then you have to use buffers to not waste anything. On the contrary, the tense flow (direct E - P - P) could work (you save PG and cpu) if you're focused on PI and monitor it all the time.
That's up to the players, and it's good you can choose to do PI according to your playstyle.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:44:00 -
[301]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 04/05/2010 17:48:55
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob
B) extractors -> storage -> processor -> storage (2461 per 15 min) - 300 units of Oxygen produced
This planet, where the extractors feed a storage silo, is producing faster then planet A. Even though we're pulling *less* units per cycle.
The bad part about this setup is that I have to online the extractors, then wait 15 minutes before I can *easily* route product out of the storage and into the processor.
If processors could be setup so that you tell them "get your materials from this storage location", then you could configure everything all at once.
Unless I'm missing something, I think you can include the storage in one step. Create the links, extractor -> storage -> processor. Create a single route, set the route's starting point to the extractor and set the route's end point to the processor (set single route to Extractor -> Processor instead of two routes; Extractor->Storage, Storage->Processor.) Since the computed route has to go through the storage to get to the processor (Extractor -> storage -> Processor), excess minerals get stocked in storage, no? All with one route setup.
Long story short, the storage is your hub and and all links go to the storage unit in order to ensure that routes always go through storage.
edit: clarified example ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:59:00 -
[302]
One problem still needs changed. If I put 800 Reactive Metals and 800 Water into a storage unit, route it to a processor building water-cooled cpus; I still only get 95 end product instead of 100.
Check this one out guys and see if it's happening to you too. I'm still loosing that last cycle!
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.04 19:10:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Aurelius Lyonis Heat Map -
You've just eliminated everyone from using PI who is colorblind.
Devise a new system to display resource concentrations which is more usable. I'm not colorblind, and I have difficulty differentiating if something is "orange concentration" or "some other concentration + blue planet background".
Use the sliders to shift the color to white
but honestly this game needs to be more freindly to people with that issue, I sometimes suspect theres more people with one of the Various Colorblindness factors than Mac Users. *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Zedah Zoid
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.05.04 20:48:00 -
[304]
I've been playing with PI since the first iteration. A few notes.
1) Agreed on the slider to select extraction rate/duration. This would be a nice enhancement. If it is too far along to do this, bump the 24 hour timer down to something like 20 hours or 22 hours.
2) Agreed on the "Grouping extractors to issue a single scan/extract/route series of instructions" idea.
3) Need to do something with the resource map on the white planets. It's just too hard to see.
Overall though, good effort here for the first attempt. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for keeping the game fresh CCP.
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Miss President
Caldari SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2010.05.04 23:22:00 -
[305]
Moving dots, is totally not eve style and is CRAP, why not create a new game, and call it "uber dots"
I guess this is the best CCP has came up with in desperate attempt to keep bored industrialist occupied. You're actively splitting eve online game play into two branches, creating a rather big gap in the playgroups types, this is the first step in wrong direction, or an indication that wrong people are in charge.
Supply involving NPC market? What about the enormous abundance of items in game that no one wants such us exploration loot electrical conduits etc etc, and stupid data interfaces you can barely sell. What about fixing already existing content, especially with such a good opportunity.
I'm pretty sure there are good people working in CCP with good ideas, and oppose such things none eve style expansions .. CCP stop hiring and letting people who don't feel eve let them make game design decisions.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.05.05 00:22:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Miss President Supply involving NPC market? What about the enormous abundance of items in game that no one wants such us exploration loot electrical conduits etc etc, and stupid data interfaces you can barely sell. What about fixing already existing content, especially with such a good opportunity.
WTB answer on that one too..
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Vasali Tor
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Posted - 2010.05.05 03:09:00 -
[307]
Quick feedback:
Why not make the planets grey out a bit when you're doing the initial scan on them? Then the heatmaps would show up a bit clearer (a real annoyance if the amount of resources on a planet is low so the map is all blue).
Also, I wonder why the workflow of PI has to be so convoluted? A different version I've thought of is to have players plunk down probes on the planet to "survey" the resources at the probe's location (so you don't have to do it with the extractors) and then the player can only build extractors on the probe's location. This would remove the necessity to "submit" the extractors to start surveying thus making the process less tedious.
You could even put timers on the probes to make sure they weren't launched too fast, it flow would be akin to other scanning systems in place (moon scanning), and it would create a new item for the market/industry.
Lastly, if you didn't have a dual purpose for the submit button you could rename it something much more understandable like "done".
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Vasali Tor
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Posted - 2010.05.05 03:20:00 -
[308]
Edited by: Vasali Tor on 05/05/2010 03:22:44
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Aurelius Lyonis Heat Map -
You've just eliminated everyone from using PI who is colorblind.
Devise a new system to display resource concentrations which is more usable. I'm not colorblind, and I have difficulty differentiating if something is "orange concentration" or "some other concentration + blue planet background".
Use the sliders to shift the color to white
but honestly this game needs to be more freindly to people with that issue, I sometimes suspect theres more people with one of the Various Colorblindness factors than Mac Users.
In case you're wondering: Red Green = 10% of male population. male population of EVE is 95% of 300,000 = 285,000
so roughly 28,500 players of EVE have red green blindness.
Ways to get around this: don't use red and green, a good change is to use blue instead of green. Or you can use saturation instead of hue to denote intensity (though it doesn't work as well).
If you think about it, why even have the planet background ups when you're installing PI infrastructure? it just gets in the way. I bet the art lead was lobbying waaay too heavily against it ("Oh noes! no one will see our pretty planet textures!"). Let me give you a tip, people will hate your pretty planet textures if they only frustrate players by getting in the way.
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Equto
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Posted - 2010.05.05 03:57:00 -
[309]
Is color blindness really that big of a deal when one can just move the sliders and then its white and blue ( two colors that as a studying med student do not cause any problems unless your blind). This is not something that needs to be handled, what does need to be handled is more pressing issues such as multiple clicks for simple task and under that category extractors and the multiple routes needed to make a simple proccesing run.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.05 06:42:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 05/05/2010 06:43:21 For the people who are still oblivious, you can just drag the little arrows around on the color bar on the scan interface. This changes the minimum and maximum threshold and the colors shown.
Problem solved.
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Zee Germans
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Posted - 2010.05.05 06:45:00 -
[311]
any change to make it easier to see the saturation of minerals would be greatly appreciated. While im not blind my eyes are far from perfect, a grey background while scanning would be very helpful.
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Photon Ceray
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Posted - 2010.05.05 10:54:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Qianlee VIII Ok, after last night I couldnÆt log to PI anymore, too much clicking.
I thought about ideas to improve the current system, and it turns out that it is possible to reduce the clicking from 30 minutes of clicks to 10-20 seconds! It might need a big change in the system, but it is definitely worth it, so please consider it.
1- Let the player create ôextracting fieldsö:
Instead of the current system, the player drops X extractors, a storage and processor, selects them all and creates a field. Then all these modules are automatically linked and routed logically. If the player wishes to route the raw materials to a far away storage/processor then he creates a field only from the extractors, then links it to the desired installation.
2- Remove unnecessary clicks.
E.g. Survey button on extractors and the 10 seconds wait. The Player should automatically instantly get the list .
-Routing is 90% of the time unnecessary; it should be done only from storages with more than 1 product.
-Importing to planets is too complex, make it simple 4 steps: Open ship cargo Open orbital cargo Drag items Click ôsendö button, Done!
3- Make all the single-optioned selections automated!
ôAqueous liquidsö can only be processed into water. "Water" and "reactive metals" linked to an advanced processor can only produce "water-cooled CPU".
Therefore, a field with 10 ôAqueous liquids extractorö, a storage and basic industry facility should automatically configure itself to produce water.
Advanced processors should automatically select the schematics based on the inputs. If only one product is linked then the player should get a drop down only with the possible products from the ingredient linked.
4- Make a window similar to advanced industry facility Schematics are complex and the player can't memorize them, a window with full schematic solves this.
--
example of how to build a colony that produces "Super computers":
Ingredients: ôwater-cooled CPUö + ôcoolantö û which will be imported.
1- The player puts down X number of "base metals extractors" in proper location. 2- Insert "storage facility" nearby. 3 Insert "basic industry facility" ** 4- select the area containing the previous modules > click a new button with the function "create field". Extractors are automatically linked and routed to storage, storage is automatically linked/routed to processor, and processor automatically selects ôreactive metalsö schematic. 5- The player then clicks one extractor, and is instantly promoted to choose the time to depletion he wants for that field. 6- Repeat steps 2-5 for "aqueous liquids". 7- Player inserts 2x "advanced industry facility" 8- Player links the two "basic industry facility" to one "advanced industry facility". *** "advanced industry facility" automatically selects the schematic for "water-cooled CPU" 9- Player imports ôcoolantsö to planet through space port. 10- link space port to either storage or directly to the 2nd "advanced industry facility". 11- Link First "advanced industry facility" to the 2nd. *** Process of manufacturing ôsupercomputersö will automatically start. --
***Bonus: ôField Command Centreö: A very neat solution!
Areas and modules are different categories, therefore it might be technically difficult to link them, the solution lies in creating a new module, ôField Command Centreö, which is then linked as desired. This module can be a solution to many difficulties. The player can use this module to select cycle times, access the storage facility and industry processors. I strongly believe that itÆs one of the best things you can do in PI and simplifies a lot of tedious processes, but itÆs not there yet so I will continue the post without it.
CCP hire this guy!
Seriously, these are some of the BEST suggestions I've seen in this feedback, brilliant, and really simplifies clicking by 99%.
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Photon Ceray
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Posted - 2010.05.05 10:59:00 -
[313]
In addition, I would say that this really feels like a flash game, no where near the quality of EVE!
I know one of the most powerful gaming companies shot down a project they worked on for more than 2 years, because they felt that it does not meet the quality they produce!
To be honest, I would say shoot PI until Dust and Incarna are ready! or bring an iteration of incarna, let the player have something like the Dust 514 Room where he can manage the planet!
Let the player see the fields and the facilities he's installing, otherwise there is no connection whatsoever with the games, just circles and icons.
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Desmont McCallock
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Posted - 2010.05.05 11:31:00 -
[314]
What I just realized, playing around with PI, is that if you select another extraction period than the one you had (I'm referring on the four diff choices you have for the period of extraction) you have to reroute the material.
Unless it has to do with the amount of material extracted, ain't sure yet.
Anyway, being forced to reroute the materials seem kinda stupid to me.
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.05.05 12:27:00 -
[315]
Final numbers from my little extraction project show that if you route straight from an extractor to a processor and don't exactly match up with 6000 units - you'll have lost product. (That's an "E-P-S" setup.)
Take an example where you extract 350 units / 15m with the extractor. It will slowly fill up the 6000 unit internal storage of the processor over 18 cycles. On cycle 17, the processor has 5950 resources. When cycle 18 from the extractor feeds the processor, you will lose the excess 300 units. That overage will not carry over into the next processor cycle.
In this particular case, you're looking at a 5% loss of raw resources. As your average units/15m rises, you'll see even bigger average losses. My test project showed a total resource loss of 1.5%.
So an "E-S-P-S" or "E-S-P-P-S" setup where you buffer the extractor output into a storage silo or launchpad is going to be the better setup if you want zero lost product. Even in cases where you aren't extracting enough per cycle to keep the processor running at full-tilt.
(I still think that you shouldn't be allowed to route directly from an extractor to a processor and that processors should be configured to pull inputs rather then having to push inputs to them.)
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Avoida
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Posted - 2010.05.05 16:01:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob Final numbers from my little extraction project show that if you route straight from an extractor to a processor and don't exactly match up with 6000 units - you'll have lost product. (That's an "E-P-S" setup.)
Take an example where you extract 350 units / 15m with the extractor. It will slowly fill up the 6000 unit internal storage of the processor over 18 cycles. On cycle 17, the processor has 5950 resources. When cycle 18 from the extractor feeds the processor, you will lose the excess 300 units. That overage will not carry over into the next processor cycle.
I basically put down an extra processor which handles the overload. I split the output from my extractors making sure they feed just enough to the primary to get the 6,000 units/30 min and the rest feeds to the second processor. So if I have, say, 6 extractors each gathering 815units/cycle. Those 6 send 500units/cycle to the 1st processor and the remaining 315 units to the second. After the 24hour depletion cycle ends and I resurvey, I don't have to do any re-routing as long as the extractors continue to have more than 500units/cycle.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.05 16:06:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Miss President Moving dots, is totally not eve style and is CRAP, why not create a new game, and call it "uber dots"
I guess this is the best CCP has came up with in desperate attempt to keep bored industrialist occupied. You're actively splitting eve online game play into two branches, creating a rather big gap in the playgroups types, this is the first step in wrong direction, or an indication that wrong people are in charge.
Supply involving NPC market? What about the enormous abundance of items in game that no one wants such us exploration loot electrical conduits etc etc, and stupid data interfaces you can barely sell. What about fixing already existing content, especially with such a good opportunity.
I'm pretty sure there are good people working in CCP with good ideas, and oppose such things none eve style expansions .. CCP stop hiring and letting people who don't feel eve let them make game design decisions.
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Vasali Tor
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Posted - 2010.05.05 16:42:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Equto Is color blindness really that big of a deal when one can just move the sliders and then its white and blue ( two colors that as a studying med student do not cause any problems unless your blind). This is not something that needs to be handled, what does need to be handled is more pressing issues such as multiple clicks for simple task and under that category extractors and the multiple routes needed to make a simple proccesing run.
Why not make this the basic option? Who knows what the slider does just by looking at it?
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.05 17:06:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Photon Ceray In addition, I would say that this really feels like a flash game, no where near the quality of EVE!
Unfortunately flash games are way more intuitive and addicting - something I hope they try to capture with PI.
Originally by: Photon Ceray
Let the player see the fields and the facilities he's installing, otherwise there is no connection whatsoever with the games, just circles and icons.
I like this idea - or at least show all buildings' holograms without needing to click on each. I do like the graphical symbols though, it has a nice touch, however I would like to see more of a connection between what's on the ground, and the graphical representation of the system.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.05.05 18:04:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Photon Ceray
In addition, I would say that this really feels like a flash game, no where near the quality of EVE!
Unfortunately flash games are way more intuitive and addicting - something I hope they try to capture with PI.
Eve Tower Defense? Oh wait, no combat in v1 of PI. It would be nice to build Ion Cannons capable of shooting ships in orbit or machine gun towers to mow down the Dusties
I believe this was said, but I like the idea of upgradeable extractors and being able to see the harvestable area of said extractors. Each level of extractor upgrade increases the amount harvestable and increases the area harvested but consumes more PG/CPU. PI still needs more skills than just the four to help improve extraction or lower costs. Anyone fiddled with the depletion rates of planets? I.E. how long before their super-valuable resource location becomes useless due to the need of plopping down 6x extractors on a spot to feed a factory. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
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supercombatguy33
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Posted - 2010.05.05 18:26:00 -
[321]
I really like the idea of having processors *pull* the things they need from storage facilities, rather than routing items out of storage facilities. routing things out of storage facilities is currently very confusing, and if you made it so that one simply couldn't do that, the game would benefit.
On storage facilities, the only option would be expedited transfer. On processors, when you set routes, along with the 20 or 30 or whatever output, there are 1-3 "input routes" that you must set. If done in this method, you would no longer be allowed to route extractors directly to processors, so it does have some disadvantages.
The advantage, however, is much less confusing operation. I still have no clue how the hell routing from storage facilities to processors works, and i've done it on 3-4 planets now.
The only serious issue I see is how to avoid confusion when you have multiple storage facilities. What if you accidentally select your input from a storage facility that does not have the correct materials in it? I don't know =/
But the key is that something needs to be done about the fact that routing out of storage facilities is incredibly confusing.
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.05.05 18:56:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Xearal on 05/05/2010 18:57:41 Something else that would be usefull:
A rerouting point. A little point you can set, like any other pin, however, it does not have storage, or cost cpu or do anything, all it does is give you a location where you can link other pins to. This way, you can set up a rout network that is more efficient than is currently possible now. Especially when you have several different fields you're extracting, this would come in very handy. IE:
X---\ \ S / X---/
This will take up more CPU than:
X \ 0---S / X
X = Extractor S = Storage O = junction to rout things more efficiently.
Now, you might say, put your storage over there.. but there's plenty of reasons why that wouldn't always be more efficient, like for instance if there's something like that on the other side as well.
EDIT: Hmm seems my ascii art isn't properly working.. hope you get the idea.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.05 19:16:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Vasali Tor
Originally by: Equto Is color blindness really that big of a deal when one can just move the sliders and then its white and blue ( two colors that as a studying med student do not cause any problems unless your blind). This is not something that needs to be handled, what does need to be handled is more pressing issues such as multiple clicks for simple task and under that category extractors and the multiple routes needed to make a simple proccesing run.
Why not make this the basic option? Who knows what the slider does just by looking at it?
It's not an "on-off" option, it's a continuous thing. Hence why it's represented as a slider.
I agree that it's not obvious that something you can move, but once you figure out that you can move it, it's rather obvious what it does.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.05 19:21:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Xearal
A rerouting point. A little point you can set, like any other pin, however, it does not have storage, or cost cpu or do anything, all it does is give you a location where you can link other pins to. This way, you can set up a rout network that is more efficient than is currently possible now. Especially when you have several different fields you're extracting, this would come in very handy.
Uhm, you are aware that you can route through other pins, right? Like this:
E-E-E-S
with all extractors routing to the storage. Just link them all up in the most efficient (ie: shortest total link length) way and then route the stuff and EVE will figure out how to do multi-hop routes up to 6 total hops.
There are algorithms to optimize things like this if it's not immediately obvious which is the most efficient way to link them.
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.05 22:31:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Piotyr Petrovsky That's at level 1 extraction, though. If you take the idea to add levels to the extractors (and then the scanning ability as well) and also COORDINATES you'd add these things (using oil as an example):
1 bubbling crude - Jed Clampett strikes it rich 2 shallow drilling 3 deep drilling/ocean drilling 4 oil shale extraction 5 oil sand extraction
You need the extractor skill to plant one the right level, so with coords you get the mini-profession of surveyor! Hire someone to scan for level 4 oil on your planet instead of drilling random dry holes--and hope he's not a scammer! (Corps would benefit since you know your corp-mate.)
Scanning and extracting would be MEGA skills, like x15 or x20; the effect would be for planets to deplete and spring back into vogue with higher skills then deplete again...for entry level give a 'basic' extractor that is a x1 skill and can extract ANYTHING on the planet but at a much reduced rate. You'd see like just two choices for each of the resources instead of four choices for a specific extractor type.
I do not completely agree with the above numbers, but I fully agree with the concept. In PI, where is astrometrics with scanning & probing, and what happened to Astrogeology with mining? I understand CCP wants to make PI a low entry threshold industry. However, we scan moons, probe out gas clouds and hidden asteroid belts, and use crystals in mining lasers. Shouldn't PI be consistent?
The idea of mini-professions to get the most out of planets is sound, and needs some consideration. Keeping the basic PCC and Extractors available for low skills is good, but we need more skills for optimizing the results of PI. A planet scanning skill with Astrometrics as its pre-requisite makes perfect sense. Likewise, having an Extractor skill with Astrogeology as its pre-requisite. For the planet scanning skill, the player is able to detect lower levels of resources based on the skill level. For extractor skill, the player can set the extractor to progressively lower levels. Having the two skills unlinked makes the most sense for play diversity.
(T)Hank(s)
(T)Hank(s) |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.06 03:17:00 -
[326]
Originally by: supercombatguy33 The advantage, however, is much less confusing operation. I still have no clue how the hell routing from storage facilities to processors works, and i've done it on 3-4 planets now.
A resource has to be in the storage facility before you can create the route for it. =P
1. Create route from extractor to storage. 2. Wait for one cycle to complete (15m). 3. Once cycle is done, the resource appears in storage. 4. Route the item from storage to the processor. From that point on, all the resources of that type will be routed to the processor as they arrive from the extractors.
Quote: The only serious issue I see is how to avoid confusion when you have multiple storage facilities. What if you accidentally select your input from a storage facility that does not have the correct materials in it? I don't know =/
It's not possible to do that since you have to have an item in the storage facility before you can route it.
Quote: But the key is that something needs to be done about the fact that routing out of storage facilities is incredibly confusing.
No, what's incredibly annoying is that you can setup an E-S-P route in one step. Create a route from E to P and the client will automatically route the resources through S. However, even though the route goes through storage, overflow will not be stored and will be lost. The proper way to create an E-S-P route is to: 1) Create the E-S route. 2) Wait one cycle for the resource to appear in S. 3) Route the resource in S to P.
So that's two routes and a 15 minute wait to create a buffered E-S-P route. *grumble*
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.06 06:28:00 -
[327]
One thing I noticed is that my skills don't seem to affect the final numbers listed in the blueprints for the POS modules. For instance, an Advanced lab shows as [You: 6, Perfect: 5], while I have Prod Eff 5. Is there another skill which affects this, or is the patch currently not showing that?
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Pharum
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.06 07:32:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Bunyip One thing I noticed is that my skills don't seem to affect the final numbers listed in the blueprints for the POS modules. For instance, an Advanced lab shows as [You: 6, Perfect: 5], while I have Prod Eff 5. Is there another skill which affects this, or is the patch currently not showing that?
The definition of perfect seems to have been changed to mean producing 0 waste rather than having PE 5.
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.05.06 09:23:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Xearal
A rerouting point. A little point you can set, like any other pin, however, it does not have storage, or cost cpu or do anything, all it does is give you a location where you can link other pins to. This way, you can set up a rout network that is more efficient than is currently possible now. Especially when you have several different fields you're extracting, this would come in very handy.
Uhm, you are aware that you can route through other pins, right? Like this:
E-E-E-S
with all extractors routing to the storage. Just link them all up in the most efficient (ie: shortest total link length) way and then route the stuff and EVE will figure out how to do multi-hop routes up to 6 total hops.
There are algorithms to optimize things like this if it's not immediately obvious which is the most efficient way to link them.
Yes, I am aware of that, I'm sorry for not being entirely clear. The idea here is that the extractors were a small field of them, all closely packed, then the other one is another small field closely packed, and the single link to the storage is a LONG range link from the field to the storage. Here is a link to another wiki page about optimizing connections, that makes clear what I'm talking about. treelinking
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Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.06 13:40:00 -
[330]
Edited by: Kayleigh Jamieson on 06/05/2010 13:41:05 Oh God, the foreman message is back as of today >.<
I thought the extractors had been fixed :(
Kay.
(Edit): On a sidenote: neat new icons \o/
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Imuran
The first genesis Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.05.06 14:51:00 -
[331]
Had multiple foreman messages today although all cleared after a few minutes.
Also now got an Inaccesible planet (Ardene I) which happened today
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Amarok Tonrar
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Posted - 2010.05.06 15:41:00 -
[332]
I'm probably missing something here that's blatantly obvious to everyone else but figured it's the best place to ask..
Logged on Sisi for the first time last night to try and get a feel for this PI stuff. Started out with the redeemed basic stuff I got upon logging in but then realized it was pointless to be doing all this in a high sec system. So I flew off to a 0.0 NPC system, figuring i'll just leave the basic stuff where it was. I find myself a pretty little plasma planet but now have no problem...
Where in all of Eve do I get the extractors, storage and other facilities?? I found the command centers on the market but nowhere do i see extractors and such. Am I missing something here? Are these found or created by some other means?
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.06 15:43:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Amarok Tonrar
Where in all of Eve do I get the extractors, storage and other facilities?? I found the command centers on the market but nowhere do i see extractors and such. Am I missing something here? Are these found or created by some other means?
Buy a command center and transport it to the planet. Once you land the command center, you will be able to buy the extractors, processors, etc. directly on the planet. In other words, you don't buy the extractors, processors, etc. from the market.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:00:00 -
[334]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: supercombatguy33 The advantage, however, is much less confusing operation. I still have no clue how the hell routing from storage facilities to processors works, and i've done it on 3-4 planets now.
A resource has to be in the storage facility before you can create the route for it. =P
1. Create route from extractor to storage. 2. Wait for one cycle to complete (15m). 3. Once cycle is done, the resource appears in storage. 4. Route the item from storage to the processor. From that point on, all the resources of that type will be routed to the processor as they arrive from the extractors.
Quote: The only serious issue I see is how to avoid confusion when you have multiple storage facilities. What if you accidentally select your input from a storage facility that does not have the correct materials in it? I don't know =/
It's not possible to do that since you have to have an item in the storage facility before you can route it.
Quote: But the key is that something needs to be done about the fact that routing out of storage facilities is incredibly confusing.
No, what's incredibly annoying is that you can setup an E-S-P route in one step. Create a route from E to P and the client will automatically route the resources through S. However, even though the route goes through storage, overflow will not be stored and will be lost. The proper way to create an E-S-P route is to: 1) Create the E-S route. 2) Wait one cycle for the resource to appear in S. 3) Route the resource in S to P.
So that's two routes and a 15 minute wait to create a buffered E-S-P route. *grumble*
You don't technically have to wait until a material is in storage to route it to a processor (unless they've changed something recently). You don't need to create a route from the storage window - you can create an outgoing route from an incoming route in the route window.
For example - you have three extractors routed to storage at 1500, 1400, and 1300 units of X material per cycle each. You go into the storage menu and open up the route window. You see 1500, 1400, and 1300 as incoming routes for X material. You click on the 1500 unit route and select "create route". This allows you to create an outgoing route to the processor for 1500 units for that material. Repeat this step for the other two routes. Now you will see 1500, 1400, and 1300 incoming, and 1500, 1400, and 1300 outgoing, all for X material.
It is not pretty but it gets the job done. I would prefer it if you were not limited to the capacity of the incoming route and could use it to set a full 6000 unit outgoing route.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:09:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron you can create an outgoing route from an incoming route in the route window.
It is not pretty but it gets the job done. I would prefer it if you were not limited to the capacity of the incoming route and could use it to set a full 6000 unit outgoing route.
So my choices are: a) wait 15 minutes and create one route from storage to processor, or b) spend 10 minutes clicking on each incoming route to create routes to the processor.
You know, given the level of micromanagement needed to create even moderately efficient routes, I'm beginning to think that PI would be better served with a spreadsheet interface. CCP took the time to integrate a web browser into the GUI, why not integrate OpenOffice, too?
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:04:00 -
[336]
I've found a couple of problems with PI so far. For one, you can't specify a new compound to be mined until all of the reserves are taken from the storage facility. The miners should go ahead with their new project, regardless of the storage facility's capacity (and if there's overage, that's waste).
For two, some planets cannot produce all items. One recommendation I would have is to rework planets so that Silicate Glass and Polyaramids are capable of being produced there. Every other level 2 item can be produced planet-side, meaning that the prices of these items will be insane (given the costs for importing and such).
Another thing is that I can't see my friend's networks, even though I know he set one up on the same planet as myself. I've tried the hide/show other networks, but to no avail. This is probably a bug that needs fixed.
Overall, I'm very happy with this patch. This is probably the Industrial Expansion that Quantum Rise was promised to be. Good work, CCP.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:21:00 -
[337]
Originally by: stoicfaux Create a route from E to P and the client will automatically route the resources through S. However, even though the route goes through storage, overflow will not be stored and will be lost. The proper way to create an E-S-P route is to: 1) Create the E-S route. 2) Wait one cycle for the resource to appear in S. 3) Route the resource in S to P.
So that's two routes and a 15 minute wait to create a buffered E-S-P route. *grumble*
Have you verified the Storage will not overflow the Processor with your setup? When the Processor is full, does it somehow put a halt on the route from the Storage? Logically, whenever X material comes into Storage, it is automatically routed to the Processor whether the Processor can take it or not.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Cyndain
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:35:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
You don't technically have to wait until a material is in storage to route it to a processor (unless they've changed something recently). You don't need to create a route from the storage window - you can create an outgoing route from an incoming route in the route window.
For example - you have three extractors routed to storage at 1500, 1400, and 1300 units of X material per cycle each. You go into the storage menu and open up the route window. You see 1500, 1400, and 1300 as incoming routes for X material. You click on the 1500 unit route and select "create route". This allows you to create an outgoing route to the processor for 1500 units for that material. Repeat this step for the other two routes. Now you will see 1500, 1400, and 1300 incoming, and 1500, 1400, and 1300 outgoing, all for X material.
It is not pretty but it gets the job done. I would prefer it if you were not limited to the capacity of the incoming route and could use it to set a full 6000 unit outgoing route.
Wait until you have 15 extractors... oh and then the resource amounts change after your cycles are completed... the route amounts do not update to the new amount. blah, this definitely needs attention (which I am sure it is receiving)
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zxennx
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Posted - 2010.05.06 19:15:00 -
[339]
ok I have a line going , moving stuff from the miners to the storage and then processing, I take the new stuff and store it till I have alot of it. I then move it to the rocket and the custom house. My question is , how do I get the stuff from the custon house to my cargoship in orbit?
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.06 19:27:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Hammering Hank
Have you verified the Storage will not overflow the Processor with your setup? When the Processor is full, does it somehow put a halt on the route from the Storage? Logically, whenever X material comes into Storage, it is automatically routed to the Processor whether the Processor can take it or not. (T)Hank(s)
I did. I had a processor about 92% full. It went to 100% full, the 30 minute process cycle started, the processor's now-empty buffer filled up with another 6,000 units, and the remaining excess 11,000 units stayed in the storage unit.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.05.06 19:48:00 -
[341]
I have been thinking on how PI is going to fit into EVE Online, and I think it is clear that there is too little content to make it a main profession. Here is my current review and recommendation.
Resources shouldn't move, only get depleted and re-spawn after DT. My reasons are: - Territory needs to be worth something when Dust is introduced. This can only be the case if the resources don't move and that active structures prevent enemy structures from being placed nearby. - Structures are expensive, being forced to sell them to chase resources, severely drops profitability. - All other resources don't move. Making them move kinda ruins the EVE feel.
Extra: - Allow players to power up or power down structures. - Please balance the power requirements for links.
I can see room for three different PI user levels.
1. Casual - This would be the entry level. After learning the basic skills and setting up the colony, everything should be nearly fully automated, needing only clicks for launch. Profit ain't great but its easy.
2. Average - More involved, can get better yields using skills, can choose to extract faster, owns multiple CCs and can trade with other players on those planets. This player will be in it for the profit.
3. Elite (PI Overseer) - A corp player that handles many corp CCs to fuel the POS. This role/certificate should require skills that make import/export more cost effective and allows. Likely only done in Alliance 0.0 and WH.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.06 20:27:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Shin Dari I have been thinking on how PI is going to fit into EVE Online, and I think it is clear that there is too little content to make it a main profession. Here is my current review and recommendation.
Resources shouldn't move, only get depleted and re-spawn after DT. My reasons are: - Territory needs to be worth something when Dust is introduced. This can only be the case if the resources don't move and that active structures prevent enemy structures from being placed nearby. - Structures are expensive, being forced to sell them to chase resources, severely drops profitability. - All other resources don't move. Making them move kinda ruins the EVE feel.
Extra: - Allow players to power up or power down structures. - Please balance the power requirements for links.
I can see room for three different PI user levels.
1. Casual - This would be the entry level. After learning the basic skills and setting up the colony, everything should be nearly fully automated, needing only clicks for launch. Profit ain't great but its easy.
2. Average - More involved, can get better yields using skills, can choose to extract faster, owns multiple CCs and can trade with other players on those planets. This player will be in it for the profit.
3. Elite (PI Overseer) - A corp player that handles many corp CCs to fuel the POS. This role/certificate should require skills that make import/export more cost effective and allows. Likely only done in Alliance 0.0 and WH.
I like these ideas. All of them are solid. Having some resources static, and others that are roving sounds good actually. Or, you could have some resources that move at a much MUCH slower rate.
Also, it would be great if extractors can be "packed" for movement, while still keeping their links and routes.
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.06 20:51:00 -
[343]
The UI of the Processor needs some love:
When opening the processor Schematics window, and then selecting a Schematics, then that screen is completely hiding the Input/Output screens. Which means if you just started, then you need to click one by one to see, what can produce what.
I suggest to Create a separate dropdown box for this information. Maybe to the left or to the right. Somewhere where it is not hiding the info about the manufacturing process.
It's just insane how much you need to click to find the correct product.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:25:00 -
[344]
None of the apparent issues has been addressed. Only non-distictive icons added and one word rewritten... :'( CCP, if i'm going to guess, this expansion is going to be a fail more epic than any other single one on my memory. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Nanomasq
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:27:00 -
[345]
I do agree with You Lost Hamster. In fact the first thing I did, I took my pencil, and wrote all the processor possibilities down on paper to have a much better overview.
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Nanomasq
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:38:00 -
[346]
To Tonto Auri, They surely addressed a bug that I reported about not being able to build a new Planetary Command Center after dismantling a previous one.
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Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.06 22:12:00 -
[347]
Does anyone else want a queue list of actions yet to be submitted? After creating extraction jobs and routes, I find myself having to go back and double-check to ensure I did not miss something before hitting Submit. I know, I am lazy. But the queue list would really impress us bean counters and schedule hawks.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.06 23:06:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Hammering Hank Does anyone else want a queue list of actions yet to be submitted?
Even if I want to, I see clear reasons to not do that. Also, fix your signature already. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Hammering Hank
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.06 23:19:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Hammering Hank Does anyone else want a queue list of actions yet to be submitted?
Even if I want to, I see clear reasons to not do that.
Care to share some of the reasons?
Originally by: Tonto Auri Also, fix your signature already.
Don't insult my limited wit.
(T)Hank(s) (T)Hank(s) |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.07 02:02:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Hammering Hank Edited by: Hammering Hank on 06/05/2010 22:22:27 Edited by: Hammering Hank on 06/05/2010 22:21:23 Does anyone else want a queue list of actions yet to be submitted? After creating extraction jobs and routes, I find myself having to go back and double-check to ensure I did not miss something before hitting Submit. I know, I am lazy. But the queue list would really impress us bean counters and schedule hawks.
IIRC, you can hover the mouse over a destination facility and it will show the incoming and outgoing routes in orange, animated lines. So if you're busy setting up a dozen extractors to a single supply shack, you can put the mouse over the supply shack and see if all the lines to the extractors are orange and moving towards the supply shack.
However, E-E-S setups are problematic. You'll want to hover the mouse of the middle extractor to verify it has an active route.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.05.07 02:21:00 -
[351]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 07/05/2010 02:22:51 Edited by: Tres Farmer on 07/05/2010 02:22:09
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Hammering Hank Edited by: Hammering Hank on 06/05/2010 22:22:27 Edited by: Hammering Hank on 06/05/2010 22:21:23 Does anyone else want a queue list of actions yet to be submitted? After creating extraction jobs and routes, I find myself having to go back and double-check to ensure I did not miss something before hitting Submit. I know, I am lazy. But the queue list would really impress us bean counters and schedule hawks.
IIRC, you can hover the mouse over a destination facility and it will show the incoming and outgoing routes in orange, animated lines. So if you're busy setting up a dozen extractors to a single supply shack, you can put the mouse over the supply shack and see if all the lines to the extractors are orange and moving towards the supply shack.
However, E-E-S setups are problematic. You'll want to hover the mouse of the middle extractor to verify it has an active route.
Not even that.. as more routes use the same link in a E-E-E-E config.. the percentage numbers for usage should get bigger after each extractor has put stuff onto the link.
So if you hover over the destination and see all the numbers and there are two times the same you missed one.
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Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.07 04:32:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Bunyip
For two, some planets cannot produce all items.
I assumed that was by design. In fact, I thought that played a part in the whole strategy of it, making us be very careful which planets we pick and how to minimise imports/exports while still finding a way to make whatever end-product we have chosen to make. Yes, it's going to make some things insanely expensive (at least with current import/export prices) but personally I think it makes PI more interesting and strategic.
Quote: Another thing is that I can't see my friend's networks, even though I know he set one up on the same planet as myself. I've tried the hide/show other networks, but to no avail.
Yeah. I do agree on this one. I can, if I really strain my eyes/patience and search very carefully, find other people's PCCs and by left-clicking them I generally get their whole network suddenly appear magically to me.
I have noticed, too, that if you scan for resources, the scan returns planetary structures which are placed on top of said resources. However, since clicking anything other than the PCC fails to show the rest of the network, this leaves a bit to be desired.
Kay.
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Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.07 05:05:00 -
[353]
Edited by: Toawa on 07/05/2010 05:09:31 There are a few things I'd like to see, when it comes to the links and routing.
1. Route bundling in the route display screen (routes with the same commodity and route type [in/out/transfer] should be combined into a single aggregated route, with component routs available via tree.
2. Right now, routing quantities is a bit confusing; there's no direct indication of what the routing rate it (I've figured it at one cycle per half hour, but that doesn't seem to hold). Optimally, I think routes should be percent based, or alternately, you should just be able to specify any amount and if there isn't enough available then split it up pro-rata amoung all of the routes, subject to the limit that the destination won't be routed more than it can handle at the time. Percentage routing would be very useful with extractors.
3. It'd be really nice to be able to designate a default storage location, in case you have overflow somewhere.
4. In the route info screen, it should list the volume rate for each direction, not just the sum. Likewise with the storage structure screens, there should be a total inflow/outflow breakdown. If you were feeling really nice, a "time till full" indicator.
5. Also, please make it possible to resize structure windows.
Also nice to have:
6. The ability to queue up extractions (just to be able to designate a time selection and let it scan; wouldn't have to say what the amount is).
7. The ability to cancel extraction cycles (optimally with pro-rata results, but even losing the current cycle would be fine).
8. The ability to tell a factory not to start a new cycle, and to move any commodities stored in preparation, back to storage.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.07 10:36:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 07/05/2010 10:40:42 Haven't looked into this mess for a while but I just fired the new build up and have to say CCP you do not disappoint - a separate "Routes" tab which is - of course - NOT where you create routes. Anything else and I would have been surprised. LMAO.
PS: And of course no edit route button either. And that interface behind the local chat window is still unreadable on a gas planet. And ... ah, w/e...
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Haravar
Starscape LLC
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Posted - 2010.05.07 10:41:00 -
[355]
Having fiddled with the system now for a few days I have to say I'm quite impressed. Over all the UI has improved significantly over the last few weeks, and the production lines are far easier to follow.
I actually quite like the fact that resource patches... or whatever they will end up being known as, run out after a certain time frame... no week long afk empires. it even rewards active players by giving better resourcing rates if you choose the shorter duration patchs. I fully support the current form of this.
I honestly have only a few small requests. *First, it's rather annoying to have to reset an extractor route after completing a resource patch. Would it be possible to set a default destination for extractors? *Would it be possible to get an actual number readout of CPU and power on the UI? atm it's just a coupla pretty scroller bars, and while that's nice for rough guess work it can be annoying if your fiddling with a power or CPU tight set-up. *Regarding outgoing routes, would it be possible to have the routes going to idle processors take priority over those processors already working? at the moment if you have 2 outgoing routes set.. say raw materials coming from a storage point going to 2 processors working the same schematic, 1 processor will take what's needed to start it's production line and continue taking until it's queue storage is full. Only then will the next processor in line start getting materials. *Lastly, a cancel button on the extractor buttons would be nice. I can see why it's set how it currently is, if you wanna choose a 96 hour extraction time you should live the the full time frame involved. On the other hand there are times when I've accidentally chosen the wrong option or decided 10 minutes after starting the extraction that it would work better with a different setting. On Sisi it's easy to correct that problem... kill the building and rebuild, but in tranq that would not be nearly so easy an option to choose.
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Milo Caman
Gallente Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.05.07 11:15:00 -
[356]
'Foreman is busy' links can be worked around my manually rerouteing stuff before you restart. You need to delete the old route before you can get more materials up. _______________________
Out of Sinq |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.07 12:33:00 -
[357]
Originally by: stoicfaux IIRC, you can hover the mouse over a destination facility and it will show the incoming and outgoing routes in orange, animated lines. So if you're busy setting up a dozen extractors to a single supply shack, you can put the mouse over the supply shack and see if all the lines to the extractors are orange and moving towards the supply shack.
However, E-E-S setups are problematic. You'll want to hover the mouse of the middle extractor to verify it has an active route.
And how it is related to setting the extractors to work? And don't tell me you recreating routes every time - it's just stupid. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.07 12:51:00 -
[358]
Thanks for adding the double click functionality in the survey and routing dialogs. --------
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.07 13:02:00 -
[359]
I'm aware you can't setup PI in alliance 0.0 space if you do not have sov.
Can you setup PI in NPC 0.0 space ? Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.07 13:29:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Milo Caman 'Foreman is busy' links can be worked around my manually rerouteing stuff before you restart. You need to delete the old route before you can get more materials up.
Deleting only one link fixing the whole colony. Easiest is to delete link from the processor.
Originally by: Louis deGuerre I'm aware you can't setup PI in alliance 0.0 space if you do not have sov.
Can you setup PI in NPC 0.0 space ?
Enough that none of the other player corps hold sov. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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Morion Hakata
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2010.05.07 13:40:00 -
[361]
Why do you have to wait between so long between every submission? Can't see any reason for it tbh. It'd be much more efficient if you could either submit your next action right after another, or have some sort of queue where you submit all actions at once. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:01:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Morion Hakata Why do you have to wait between so long between every submission? Can't see any reason for it tbh. It'd be much more efficient if you could either submit your next action right after another, or have some sort of queue where you submit all actions at once.
You will submit all actions at once. No need to hit submit after every action. The timer exists to prevent server spam and data mess-ups. --------
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Scara manga
The Rough Riders
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:31:00 -
[363]
I tested PI after today s patch and got few issues : I was unable to access 2 of the 6 planet i installed CC, so i couldn t put extractor back on work. I was unable to send stuff from storage to CC launch them to space as expedited transfer if messed up.
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RexAnthony
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:45:00 -
[364]
Customs office interface does not work well
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:54:00 -
[365]
I've somehow managed to start extracting two deposits of noble metals on each extractor 0_o
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Booboo DeFoo
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Posted - 2010.05.07 15:38:00 -
[366]
New "features" noted after latest patch: Customs office window asks you to declare stuff when trying to export... but doesn't go any further to allow it to happen. Buttons are misaligned and unresponsive at the bottom of the window.
Somehow routing seemed smoother, previously I had trouble setting up output routes from processing to launchpad, perhaps just because there was nothing to move through at the time.
Expedited transfers from storage to anywhere pop up the customs office window and that ends the process.
Noted previously: After opening the PI planet-view screen, you can dock in stations and still mess with all your planet stuff until you close the planet-view screen once. Not sure if that is intentional or not, just doesn't seem realistic. Also doesn't seem realistic that you can interact with the PI interface and view and scan any planet in system no matter where your ships located in space.
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gibdinn
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Posted - 2010.05.07 15:44:00 -
[367]
Devs, i have request. please slow down the rotation speed of holographic representations of structures. make it at least 3 times slower than current speed.
its moves too fast to be able enjoy and view the structure itself. and after prolonged working time - your eyes gets tired from all this merry-go-round.
does other pilot's would agree with me?
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Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.07 15:44:00 -
[368]
Yes, the Expedited Transfer window as well as the Import/Export one are borked for me. I can only see the middle section, but can't see either the Launchpad side of things nor the Customs side of it, so therefor I can't select a product to move around or click any buttons.
This happens no matter how I try to resize the window.
On the upside: extractors have stopped giving me the Foreman message again when I try to rescan after depletion \o/
Kay.
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Calvin Caltrain
Gallente Exordium Mining Contingent ORDUM Mining and Fabrication Group
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Posted - 2010.05.07 16:28:00 -
[369]
I am having the same problem as the above players. Since the last patch I cant't move goods to or from planets as the customs office seems messed up.
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Rick Sheridan
Gallente Highland Corp.
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Posted - 2010.05.07 16:59:00 -
[370]
Ok so i was testing things out last night and came across this problem. The resource i was extracting was depleted. I wanted to get the extractor working again so i scanned and selected an item with the existing extractor. when i clicked on submit it told me something like the foreman is not responding he is away checking on the resources. has this happened to anyone else?
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2010.05.07 17:30:00 -
[371]
I think Planetary Interaction is a shallow poorly thought out implementation in a head long rush to get an FPS up and running.
Having been so derogatory I do however congratualte CCP on getting PI to work and a basic system in place - well done.
I think you've gone wrong by missing an opportunity to bring in players more into the Universe of Eve and this will ultimately reduce the opportunities in DUST514 as well.
A clear example is in the storyline of Eve and the factions that bring it alive. For example it would have been great to see Guritas installations being run by Guritas staff and hence see that reflected in the people fighting in DUST514. Opportunities exist here for varied weapons, armour, politics (reasons for installations being where they are and what they are doing) and also the societies that they promote - potentially having an impact directly on the POD pilot universe.
This missed opportunity to enrich the environment of Eve and actually give players a reason to fight over planets - for and against the political structure operating on the planets - for example with Amarr using Minmatar slaves and Minmatar freedom fighters raiding such installations is a woeful missed opportunity.
While I hope you have left the development cycle open enough to actually allow populations and politics to flourish on planets and hence give MORE reasons to fight I think the headlong rush towards a successful FPS implementation is understandable.
Missions in Eve are so succesful because they can be easily accessed, give a reason to fight in Eve and allow players to progress - and yes beleive it or not I still do have a strong anti slavery flame burning in me from Minmatar. Isn't it time Eve started following it's own storyline and enhancing player experiences rather than implementing shallow mechanics which few people actually want to play ? Give players reasons to fight, not produce some weird product that influences nothing.
Another clear example should be the development of "Nukes" for nuking from orbit. Highsec would not allow such a device, it should only be allowed in null security and it's use would lead to a potentially MASSIVE anti faction swing. Yet, as in the Iraq war, given the right political environment the use of such weapons could become widespread. Such politics and deceipt make for a very enjoyable mind blowing player experience. But I doubt such mechanics will be put in place because the shallow blow it up mentallity (giggle giggle) overrides the emotional response which most people have. If you truely want more players to play both Eve and DUST514 then bring in the emotional response as NeverWinterNights, Mass Effect and Dragon Age does - otherwise Eve is just a point and click "thing" which has little point in being played.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.07 18:02:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 07/05/2010 18:04:31
Originally by: Morion Hakata or have some sort of queue where you submit all actions at once.
lol
You can already do this. You're not supposed to submit after every change you make. Set lots of stuff up, then hit submit once.
The only time you need to submit before continuing is when you build extractors before you survey for deposits.
Originally by: Rick Sheridan Ok so i was testing things out last night and came across this problem. The resource i was extracting was depleted. I wanted to get the extractor working again so i scanned and selected an item with the existing extractor. when i clicked on submit it told me something like the foreman is not responding he is away checking on the resources. has this happened to anyone else?
Yes, it happened to most everyone. It's a bug. Do anything that requires you to hit 'submit' and then it should work after you submit. Example: delete a link and remake it or make, then delete a new route.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.07 18:19:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Kyra Felann Edited by: Kyra Felann on 07/05/2010 18:04:31
Originally by: Morion Hakata or have some sort of queue where you submit all actions at once.
lol
You can already do this. You're not supposed to submit after every change you make. Set lots of stuff up, then hit submit once.
They need to add a circular graphic to the submit button, that will show us when we can press it again.
Like, have a green circle in the same style as the PI icons - and when you press SUBMIT - the green turns red, and a white outline starts go (just like the PI icons). When it reaches the top, the red turns green again. Pretty simple solution. I wish they'd incorporate a similar visual to other timers (ship docking, section change, etc).
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ihcn
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Posted - 2010.05.07 19:01:00 -
[374]
Edited by: ihcn on 07/05/2010 19:00:58 - I love the fact that extractors take you directly to the routes tab after selecting a deposit. I also love the fact that you can double-click an unrouted resource to route it, and the fact that when creating a route, you can double-click a destination. It takes away a lot of clicks/mouse moving and generally makes it easier.
- Expedited transfer and planetary customs are broken etc
- There needs to be a way to schedule/queue expedited transfers. If the next transfer is available in 20 minutes, why can't I say "make this transfer in 20 minutes", or more likely "make this transfer as soon as possible". Perhaps place a limit of 2 queued transfers at any time or something i dunno.
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Kaon Vortex
Gallente Middleton and Mercer LLP Consortium.
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Posted - 2010.05.07 20:48:00 -
[375]
Edited by: Kaon Vortex on 07/05/2010 20:49:29 I've was working on a planet yeasterday, had to quit b4 all the routes were set up. Today I tried to view it again after the patch today to finish everything up and it gives me this message: "There was a problem accessing X-BV98 II." I'm not to worried about this overall as it was just a test patch, my main issue is the backround "music" keeps playing and there doesn't seem to be any way to make it stop.....
also user-initiated transfer UI is broken, but im sure you know this from the last 5 posts
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.07 23:23:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Kaon Vortex Edited by: Kaon Vortex on 07/05/2010 20:49:29 I've was working on a planet yeasterday, had to quit b4 all the routes were set up. Today I tried to view it again after the patch today to finish everything up and it gives me this message: "There was a problem accessing X-BV98 II." I'm not to worried about this overall as it was just a test patch, my main issue is the backround "music" keeps playing and there doesn't seem to be any way to make it stop.....
Two methods:
1) Go to the Config Menu (by pressing Escape), disable audio, then enable audio.
OR
2) View another planet of the same type in Planet Mode, then exit Planet Mode. For example, if you ran into the error trying to look at a Lava planet that no longer works, then look at a Lava planet that does work, then stop looking at that lava planet. The music for lava planets will stop. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Tas Nok
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Posted - 2010.05.08 06:44:00 -
[377]
Originally by: ihcn Edited by: ihcn on 07/05/2010 19:00:58 - I love the fact that extractors take you directly to the routes tab after selecting a deposit. I also love the fact that you can double-click an unrouted resource to route it,
Except when you've been out for a few days, you selected a 5 hr run earlier in the day, just to get them all working again, and now my products are all amounts from the past couple of extractions, the 'current' one is NOT showing up till the old ones are deleted. Had to clear all the old products to get the current amounts, some were larger, so may not have made a difference, others were smaller and were likely 'disappearing' raw material.
OTOH, routing from storage to processors and back with refined, once set isn't a pain since its static, thanks for getting this right, now only if we could empty our processors with a 'purge' button so they pushed their not quite full buffers back to their source, its rather wasteful on Tier 2/3 items.
Psychotherapy is expensive, Bubble wrap is cheap. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.08 09:49:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue 1) Go to the Config Menu (by pressing Escape), disable audio, then enable audio.
Or even easier: hit CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+F12 twice (once to enable, once to disable).
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.08 10:34:00 -
[379]
The new double-click shortcuts for setting an extractor on a new deposit is an improvement, thank you. Has a method of giving orders to multiple extractors been introduced, yet, that I haven't figured out? __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Scara manga
The Rough Riders
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Posted - 2010.05.08 16:15:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Scara manga on 08/05/2010 16:16:09 testing PI again, and still disappointed. expedited transfer works now but i have to log off/in to see my stuff moved^^. So i sent stuff to launch pad and then to space. I don t know why but the stuff i extracted and processed for 3 days went nowhere^^. Can t find anything in space (journal is empty) nor in planet custom office. Maybe i sent 30 000 processed materials in the sun or in a black and i m ****ed off.
Guys if you test this don t put all your stuff in the same launch. Try with a little before.
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Scara manga
The Rough Riders
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Posted - 2010.05.08 16:25:00 -
[381]
Edited by: Scara manga on 08/05/2010 16:26:36 Haha found a really great spot, check amount and time to depletion :
Running extractor before DT are all like this one. Extractor put online after DT a normal.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.05.08 17:12:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Scara manga Edited by: Scara manga on 08/05/2010 16:26:36 Haha found a really great spot, check amount and time to depletion : ... Image ... Running extractor before DT are all like this one. Extractor put online after DT a normal.
wtb howto...
Did you click submit right before DT occurred or something? ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.05.08 17:40:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Scara manga Edited by: Scara manga on 08/05/2010 16:26:36 Haha found a really great spot, check amount and time to depletion : Running extractor before DT are all like this one. Extractor put online after DT a normal.
Ok, I did more checking up on this. Noting when I seeded my Noble Metals extractors, I also started a new barren planet shortly after. Trying to get into contact with that planet, it crashes the eve client after the loading bar hits about 5% or so. Anyone else getting this? ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Lammeth
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Posted - 2010.05.08 21:11:00 -
[384]
"That route cannot be created, as it exceeds the maximum number of logistical waypoints which your operations are capable of managing."
Anyone know what the max is? Is this actually documented anywhere?
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Amy Garzan
Gallente The Warp Rats Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.05.08 22:23:00 -
[385]
qq what happens to your ship when you are in planet mode?
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere. -------------------------------------------------- 101010 The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.08 22:29:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Amy Garzan qq what happens to your ship when you are in planet mode?
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.
It's sitting right there for everyone to shoot at. You can even warp around and pick up cans while in planet mode via the overview and/or bookmarks. --------
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.05.09 02:01:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Amy Garzan qq what happens to your ship when you are in planet mode?
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.
Ofcourse you can always just sit somewhere safely in a spacedock once you've dropped your PCC down and manage all your planets, no matter where they are from inside a station.
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Vordel
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Posted - 2010.05.09 03:14:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Lammeth "That route cannot be created, as it exceeds the maximum number of logistical waypoints which your operations are capable of managing."
Anyone know what the max is? Is this actually documented anywhere?
End of route can't be more than 6 hops from start or you'll get that error.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.09 08:08:00 -
[389]
Whether you're in planet mode or not has as little to do with what you're ship's doing as having the map open does.
You can dock, undock, warp around, etc all while in planet mode just like you can with the map open.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.05.09 11:21:00 -
[390]
Any chance we can get a "spreadsheet" listing all extractors and their status with "select all" + "rescan".
This click-sink is not fun gameplay.
Restricting the output to who can damage their hands more with repetitive clicking is not the smartest option for throttling the whole thing.
Make the UI easy. The output shouldn't be tied to how boring someone is.
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Rhieks
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Posted - 2010.05.09 16:46:00 -
[391]
Does anyone else have a trouble with PI UI blinking each time you move a mouse?
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.09 23:33:00 -
[392]
I can see some critical improvements in the UI, well done. Can we please make the control range 30 light years instead of 9 ? I'd settle for 20 :) I have commitments in EVE far away from the place I'd like to set up and it's too far to travel up and down every day.
Another problem I see : The market will be flooded by stage 3 products that can be produced on a single planet. Few people can be bothered enough to move all the products from planet to planet to make more complex products for so little gain.
This gets me back to my earlier suggestion. Make it possible to have NPC run shipments of finished product from planet to planet.
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Vordel
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Posted - 2010.05.09 23:52:00 -
[393]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
This gets me back to my earlier suggestion. Make it possible to have NPC run shipments of finished product from planet to planet.
I think it would be more interesting for them to introduce courier contracts between customs offices. I could be good work for starting players.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.10 00:47:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Vordel
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
This gets me back to my earlier suggestion. Make it possible to have NPC run shipments of finished product from planet to planet.
I think it would be more interesting for them to introduce courier contracts between customs offices. I could be good work for starting players.
I like this idea. NPC ships could take longer, yet still be blown up if cornered by a pirate who knows the route (notwithstanding concord hunting him down afterwards).
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sekan killspesn
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Posted - 2010.05.10 01:15:00 -
[395]
please ccp, stop changing planets like that i have a whole 25 structures temperate planet that changed into an ice planet
while i know this is the test server i'm a bit short on money now to build new facilities again and it was a key planet in my plans :(
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.10 01:19:00 -
[396]
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE HI RES TEXTURES???? The planet textures were great last week - why the F did they reduce them?? They look terrible if you zoom up, or are at the customs office. I want to look down at a beautiful planet, not a pixelated low-res texture. CCP - please listen, if you ever read these threads.... please up the resolution on the planets when they are zoomed in.
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.10 04:06:00 -
[397]
After toying around with Singularity quite a bit, I've come up with a couple of new skills that would benefit PI greatly. The names are inconsequential, it's the effects I'd like to see implemented.
Tariff Negotiations: Rank 6, requires Social 4 and Accounting 4, reduces the customs tax by 5 or 10% per level (whichever makes more sense). Ecology: Rank 4, requires Science 3 and Metallurgy 4, reduces the variance of planetary assets for your harvesters by 10% per level (reducing the variation for your extractors).
With these skills, I think this expansion would really do better.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.05.10 05:41:00 -
[398]
Just had a look at the latest update.
1) Ok CCP's solution for the extractors with regard to its routing (when selecting 30min/5hr/24hr/96hr extraction) is hilarious. Not only they have extended the process by one extra click, but they've managed to create a confusing mandatory pop-up which is essentially a status display for the extractors routing. This is not a simplification, it's a confuddlation. /me facepalm
2) Looking at the Extractor's teal green is too similar to Storage/PCC/Lauchpad's dark blue and the links's bright green making it hard to distinguish things at a glance.
3) The blinking white rings for processors on hold awaiting resources is too subtle and it gets hypnotically annoying after you've noticed it. Utilizing solid colors (orange/pink/red/etc) instead for the ring, will make it easier to distinguish visually than all that blinking. Those moving link dot are more than enough distractions already.
On a positive note, the critical waste issue seem to have been fixed. |
Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.10 07:16:00 -
[399]
It is a little thing, but when I am looking at the production info tab of one of the basic commodities and I click on one of the products it can be used for, I go to an info window with two tabs instead of three, which is fine. But when I hit the << to go back I wind up in the attributes tab of the original product instead of back in the production info tab. That means extra clicks, annoying clicks, when you are looking around trying to see what can be made from what.
Example: I've got some extra silicon and no plans for it. I look at the production info tab to see what I can make with the resources I have on hand. I click on silicate glass, because I don't remember what the other ingredient is, and I find out it is oxidising compound. Since I don't have any oxidising compound I hit back to see what my other two choices are. Instead of going back to where I started, I'm now in the attributes tab for silicon. I have to click again to get to the silicon production info tab, and that's a little annoying.
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.10 07:54:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
Can we please make the control range 30 light years instead of 9 ? I'd settle for 20 :) I have commitments in EVE far away from the place I'd like to set up and it's too far to travel up and down every day.
Once you have a PCC on the planet you can control that planet (and use the scan feature) from anywhere in the universe. The 9 ly limit is to make sure you just can't sit and sift through planets all over the known universe. (And you have to be in W-Space to check planets in W-Space too) But like i said, if you have a PCC on the planet it's the same as if you where right next to the planet in your cloaky ship.
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
Another problem I see : The market will be flooded by stage 3 products that can be produced on a single planet. Few people can be bothered enough to move all the products from planet to planet to make more complex products for so little gain.
This is just hypothetical but if the pos fuel market is flooded then you try another market. For example, you can make nanite repair paste (not profitable with SISI numbers yet but it should be on release) or if all else fails you can try and go all the way and build Tier 4 materials and even make a pos. That's the end product and i don't think they are gonna be flooding the market for quite some time.
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
This gets me back to my earlier suggestion. Make it possible to have NPC run shipments of finished product from planet to planet.
I like the idea of paying off NPC ships to haul your stuff but the tradeoff would be that they are only guarded by their own corporation. (I.E no concord intervention or other penalties but a standing loss to the npc corp hauling) Then it would actually add more to eve that we haven't seen much of lately. But i doubt this is feasible in eve as it would require a lot of work to be done and would also take resources as the servers have to track the AI shipments.
And no, i can't agree on a magic cargo delivery service that just takes your stuff from A to B for a price in this case. It has to be open for attack both inside and outside eve. (Dust 514)
Originally by: sekan killspesn please ccp, stop changing planets like that i have a whole 25 structures temperate planet that changed into an ice planet
while i know this is the test server i'm a bit short on money now to build new facilities again and it was a key planet in my plans :(
You can create isk on sisi by buying a battleship for 100 isk, undocking and hitting the self destruct button. Insta millions of isk. Do it a few times (buying a premium insurance when you can afford it) and you have billions of isk. Have someone shoot you down faster than 2 minutes and you have an isk factory. Or you could smacktalk in FD-MLJ local while sitting in a free for all pocket for some fun times? Pew pew GOOO!
Originally by: Jim Luc WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE HI RES TEXTURES????
Nothing? My textures are as nice as they have always been...
Originally by: Sturmwolke Just had a look at the latest update.
1) Ok CCP's solution for the extractors with regard to its routing (when selecting 30min/5hr/24hr/96hr extraction) is hilarious. Not only they have extended the process by one extra click, but they've managed to create a confusing mandatory pop-up which is essentially a status display for the extractors routing. This is not a simplification, it's a confuddlation. /me facepalm
Wait wut? The procedure is this now:
* Plop down extractor. * CTRL + click to create a link * Double click extractor takes it into a survey right away. * D-click desired interval takes you to products page. * D-click product takes you to create a route. * D-click target storage/processor finalized the route. * Click submit. * Profit?
Sure, it's more clicks but they are double clicks... We use double clicks for a lot of things outside eve. If that is so horrible just set up your middle mouse button to double click for you?
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.10 08:51:00 -
[401]
Thanks all of you for responding to my ideas.
Originally by: Cadde Once you have a PCC on the planet you can control that planet (and use the scan feature) from anywhere in the universe. The 9 ly limit is to make sure you just can't sit and sift through planets all over the known universe. (And you have to be in W-Space to check planets in W-Space too) But like i said, if you have a PCC on the planet it's the same as if you where right next to the planet in your cloaky ship.
That's good to know, but now I'm confused. What is the light year limit for then ? After I've placed the PCC what can't I do outside that limit ?
Originally by: Cadde I like the idea of paying off NPC ships to haul your stuff but the tradeoff would be that they are only guarded by their own corporation. (I.E no concord intervention or other penalties but a standing loss to the npc corp hauling) Then it would actually add more to eve that we haven't seen much of lately. But i doubt this is feasible in eve as it would require a lot of work to be done and would also take resources as the servers have to track the AI shipments.
And no, i can't agree on a magic cargo delivery service that just takes your stuff from A to B for a price in this case. It has to be open for attack both inside and outside eve. (Dust 514)
I totally agree with this. NPC ships should be interceptable just like regular NPC traders from stations. As that mechanic already exists I doubt it can be too hard to expand on the existing mechanic. Totally wishfull thinking of course so close to release date
Finally, could someone explain what the cargo links are for ? And why some planets have them and some don't ? Can you only import stuff to a planet if it has a cargo link ? I never got so far I actually had some finished product to export . I thought the space port and command center just blasted a container into orbit you had to retrieve, that's about all i know. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.05.10 08:59:00 -
[402]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 10/05/2010 08:59:28
Since you can only commit (build) something on the planet every 30 seconds like a session change, I wonder if it was possible to get a visual indication of that? Like the session change timer you can enable in the options. For example something like an hourglass on the command centre.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.10 09:06:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre Thanks all of you for responding to my ideas.
That's good to know, but now I'm confused. What is the light year limit for then ? After I've placed the PCC what can't I do outside that limit ?
...
Finally, could someone explain what the cargo links are for ? And why some planets have them and some don't ? Can you only import stuff to a planet if it has a cargo link ? I never got so far I actually had some finished product to export . I thought the space port and command center just blasted a container into orbit you had to retrieve, that's about all i know.
The 9 ly is a limit on how far away from a planet you can be to scan it (look at the heat map) before you have any structures on it. After you have a structure on it you could say you have a subspace command link with your planet allowing you to talk to the planet as if you where there. The only time you have to re-visit a planet after setting down the command center is when you want to pick up your exported stuff or import something to the planet.
And...
The cargo link (If you are talking about the customs office that is) is created when the first ever launch pad is built on a planet. No customs office no launch pads on planet yet. If you meant something else then do clarify.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.05.10 11:02:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Cadde
Wait wut? The procedure is this now:
* Plop down extractor. * CTRL + click to create a link * Double click extractor takes it into a survey right away. * D-click desired interval takes you to products page. * D-click product takes you to create a route. * D-click target storage/processor finalized the route. * Click submit. * Profit?
Sure, it's more clicks but they are double clicks... We use double clicks for a lot of things outside eve. If that is so horrible just set up your middle mouse button to double click for you
Do you happen to notice what happens when you do an extractor re-scan once the deposit timer is up?
That pop-up is what most people would call wtf is this! It's already routed and the old routed amount is more than the new re-scan because I decided to change it from 30mins > 24 hrs.
Pertaining the way double-clicks are being used as shortcuts, it's still way too excessive. Work arounds are not real solutions. Asking folks to re-assign their middle mouse buttons just to emulate double-clicks is poor rationalization for a weak design.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.10 16:10:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Cadde
Originally by: Jim Luc WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE HI RES TEXTURES????
Nothing? My textures are as nice as they have always been...
Have you tried zooming in? They look all pixelated and lowres. I'm using a 24" monitor with all settings set to high. They should enable mipmapping so that the planet keeps its high res textures the more you zoom in.
Currently the view from the customs office is really crappy (you can see pixels in the clouds).
I'll post a screengrab later after work.
Does anyone else see this???
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.10 19:51:00 -
[406]
I like the improvements that have been made so far. In my opinion, though, there is room for additional improvement. Specific suggestions I can think of are:
1) The ability to select multiple extractors (or select all extractors at once) and tell them to "Mine a 30-minute deposit" or "Mine a 6-hour deposit", and similar. 2) Eliminate the concept of routing a quantity from an extractor; when an extractor is told to route to someplace, it just routes ALL of it's output to that place. 3) The ability to select multiple extractors and tell them to "route to the same destination". 4) Having processors automatically pull what they need from the nearest qualifying storage (either a Storage Facility or a Launchpad). __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Sierra Grook
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:01:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue I like the improvements that have been made so far. In my opinion, though, there is room for additional improvement. Specific suggestions I can think of are:
1) The ability to select multiple extractors (or select all extractors at once) and tell them to "Mine a 30-minute deposit" or "Mine a 6-hour deposit", and similar. 2) Eliminate the concept of routing a quantity from an extractor; when an extractor is told to route to someplace, it just routes ALL of it's output to that place. 3) The ability to select multiple extractors and tell them to "route to the same destination". 4) Having processors automatically pull what they need from the nearest qualifying storage (either a Storage Facility or a Launchpad).
First time in the 14 pages that I find myself agreeing entirely! This wouldn't be difficult to put in, and would greatly alleviate the ordeal of keeping extractors running and routing it all! The only thing I might add to this is the ability to route produce to a kind of corporation hangar in the customs office to help with those whom want to do this on a corporation level.
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Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:17:00 -
[408]
a corporate launchpad for example where you could put all stuff from all the installations from a single planet ?
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:48:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Sierra Grook The only thing I might add to this is the ability to route produce to a kind of corporation hangar in the customs office to help with those whom want to do this on a corporation level.
I like the idea, but that might have to be done as a Launchpad option "Export to Personal Hangar at Customs Office" (which is, in essence, what we have now) or "Export to Corporate Hangar at Customs Office".
If we get "routes" involved (as Planetary Interaction defines the term "route"), then we would have to worry about what happens to routes when someone leaves a corporation. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.10 21:25:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Cadde The 9 ly is a limit on how far away from a planet you can be to scan it (look at the heat map) before you have any structures on it. After you have a structure on it you could say you have a subspace command link with your planet allowing you to talk to the planet as if you where there. The only time you have to re-visit a planet after setting down the command center is when you want to pick up your exported stuff or import something to the planet.
And...
The cargo link (If you are talking about the customs office that is) is created when the first ever launch pad is built on a planet. No customs office no launch pads on planet yet. If you meant something else then do clarify.
This is great news, means my cunning scheme will work after all
I did indeed mean the custom office and I had confused myself by messing up my overview. Working as you specified.
I got my colonies running nice and smooth, with storage buffers everywhere, and have now started using the 'expedited transfer' option. I see this immediately creates an outgoing route from the silo. Will the processor continue to take 'discrete' bites as needed or does this 'auto-routing' create waste ?
Almost ready for launch ! Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.05.11 01:00:00 -
[411]
Still trying to figure out all this stuff but I'm enjoying it so far.
Anyways I do have one extremely minor thing that I noticed as I was filling out a spread sheet. The spelling of Superconductors is inconsistent. Sometimes it has a space like in "Ukomi Super Conductor" but sometimes it doesn't, like for the component "Superconductors." I would suggest eliminating the space for consistencies sake (the rest of the SuperXXXXX's don't have spaces for instance "Supertensile Plastics"). -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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SiliconWolf
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Posted - 2010.05.11 03:09:00 -
[412]
I've seen complaints on how the PI logic does not even try to be forward combatable with DUST 514.
I would suggest that a planet be cut into a 20 sided polyhedral sphere. Players will have to start in one of the 20 locations and will not be able to build outside of it unless they either take over or nuke someone else's territory or if they drop another starter module into an unoccupied location. By forcing players to only play in their own territories THIS build, it should open up easier DUST 514 integration and make MUCH EASIER new opportunities for other skills, and structures, and planetary PvP later.
Espeically planetary PvP.
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Wild Winnie
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Posted - 2010.05.11 03:19:00 -
[413]
There is one major gameplay issue with PI, Changing cycle times!!
If i Play Eve one day from 7 to 9 and when leaving set the PM to a 24h cycle then it is "locked" for 24h.
So if i log on the following day at 7 there is nothing i can do with PM, and if i leave before 9 it will run dri the next 24h.
We need the ability to change cycle speed at the end of every 15min cycle!!!
This means that when i log on the following day i can change the cycle to full speed when i play, and reduce it for the night/weekend.
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William Mill3r
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Posted - 2010.05.11 04:55:00 -
[414]
A few sugestions from me!
- Make it so we can destroy a CC and/or upgrade it without having to loose all structures on the planets, I guess it's no news - Would be cool to have the installation date of the CC in a show info tab, so we can actually claim to have been the first to install a PI there! - Maybe interracting with other players PI ? dunno! nothing too good to not overcrow planets... - Maybe sending stuff via the launch pad from one planet to another in the same solar system could be cool too, granted you have launch pads on two planets of that solar system - There is 2 skills books on science, that need explanation, I think ? we have them to lvl 5, but I have no clue what they do - Skill books to reduce important/export taxes ? - Need more balance on the cpu, it doesn't seem like we depend on it, looks also odd that we use launchpads to store stuff! storage building looks useless, they are so expensive in power for little storage...unless you know that already and you are trying to trick us so we don't know too much on the real numbers, which wouldn't be stupid either - Maybe let us name CC ? - Some people alrdy said it, but would be cool to have an extra collumn like "average time remaining before depletation on all extractors", you just sum everything up and divise it by the number of extractors, or number of running extractors out of total extractors on the planet, with 7/7 being green, 0/7 being red - Structures/CC that would go out of order once in a while, you would have to go to the planet with some skill/tools/ships to repair it, I'm sure some peoples/corps would have some blast being called to repair them all over the gallaxy... Maybe adding some overheating stat in the future, where you would actually make it cool off once in a while instead of make it running 24/7, could there be some maintenance also to prevent them from getting broken... I dunno just throwing you guys, probably stupid ideas
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.11 05:56:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Have you tried zooming in? They look all pixelated and lowres. I'm using a 24" monitor with all settings set to high. They should enable mipmapping so that the planet keeps its high res textures the more you zoom in.
Currently the view from the customs office is really crappy (you can see pixels in the clouds).
I'll post a screengrab later after work.
Does anyone else see this???
Have i tried zooming in??? HAVE I TRIED??? ... Oh course i have!
Far away A little closer... And closer... As close as it lets me!
I don't think it's pixelated at all. Sure, i can see the smoothing of pixels but normally i operate at somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd shot. I don't have time to see if it's looking pixelated or not when doing PI....
Further more, each client is using 1.2 gigs of ram after i have viewed a few different planets and their resource maps. Sure, i have 4 gigs on this computer but i only have some 500 mb left after all other applications i have running. Sometimes even less. There are quite a bunch of PC's that can run maxed out settings in eve without problems but if they where to double the resolution of the planets textures then these computers would have to reduce their settings just because PI isn't looking as nice as some would like it to.
Personally, those 4 shots are absolutely gorgeous compared to how planets USED to look in eve 6 months ago.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.05.11 06:28:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Cadde
As close as it lets me!
I just tried grabbing the planet to rotate it >.<
Anyways that looks like it does on my computer and to me that looks pretty damn good. However the planets will still disappear if you fly into 'em :) . -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.11 07:02:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Cadde
As close as it lets me!
I just tried grabbing the planet to rotate it >.<
Anyways that looks like it does on my computer and to me that looks pretty damn good. However the planets will still disappear if you fly into 'em :) .
Eve-files must be down - I'm getting an error loading the page.
I understand that if all the planet's high res textures are loaded into memory when the planet is in sight, then yes, it will eat up tons of ram. High res images should only be loaded in on a mip-map basis (high res images are loaded into memory to replace the lower res texture as you zoom in).
I agree though, while I'm not sure why other games can have high res textures and Eve can't, if the reason is a memory or game engine issue, then I guess I understand why we get the lower quality images.
The cover artwork and all of the videos produced by CCP are shot in ultra high quality. For those of us with textures set to high, I think we should get the ultra high quality. Simply being "good enough" isn't quite what I'm after. I don't really get a sense of vertigo looking down on the planet when the planet and clouds are pixelated.
I also noticed that the bump maps have been reduced a bit. I remember they used to be quite a bit higher resolution (I really saw the mountains and valleys before this last update)
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Ineeh
Flying Blacksmiths
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Posted - 2010.05.11 07:03:00 -
[418]
What i would like :
- 12h extraction cycle. 5h is too short for people who have to go to work, and 24h too long. - a way to restart multiple extractors at once, at least on the same planet. I only have small network atm, but i feel having to check each and every extractor will be boring very quickly. - one more column in the science and industry windows, planet tab, which will display the end product the planet is currently producing. Further information could be useful too (free storage for example), as you could have all information in one window instead of having to open each planet.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.11 07:20:00 -
[419]
We need either way more options for deposit time, or the ability to stop the extraction without demolishing the extractor.
I set a 24 hour timer, and log back in 22 hours later, but I can't do anything for 2 more hours. But maybe I need to go out or I just need to go to bed early tonight, and I can't hang around playing EVE for another 2-3 hours. If I go to bed now my extractors will go idle in 2 hours, and all my other factories will stop soon after. Everything will stop for at least 4 hours after that, maybe longer if I don't have time to play video games for half an hour in the morning before I head off to work or school.
Likewise, there are plenty of people who can't play on the weekend and probably some people who can only play on the weekend -- the 4 day timer is terrible for both of them. People will have to be doing all kinds of crazy math trying to figure out if the get more resources running the 4 day extraction, or running a 1 day extraction and then letting everything go dark for X hours.
Many people can't rearrange their lives around video games. Forcing them to adhere to specific timers to "play" the game is just plain bad.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.11 07:32:00 -
[420]
When zoomed out and trying to set routes the teal and blue are too similar to each other, it adds unnecessary difficulty. Please change one of them to a different colour. Yellow or Magenta might work well.
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.11 08:25:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Jim Luc
I see pixels in your images. There shouldn't be any pixels - that's what I'm trying to say. It looks terrible when there are pixels.
... Bwaaahahahahaha! There are pixels in my image.
But seriously though, what you are seeing is artifacts from compression. The same type of artifacts you get on compressed video etc etc.
And IF textures where to be loaded on demand and released nicely to keep your memory open to other things you would have a lot of loading bars popping up as eve loads to memory... That or textures being drawn like gif images progressively and it doesn't take away from he fact your harddrive will be going non stop as you scroll around the planet. Every time you zoom in it would load more higher detailed textures and every time you zoomed out and scrolled a little it would release that memory again. It's excessive and wasteful for something as simple as planetary interaction. Not to mention the expansion would take a few hundred megabyte more in size if the compression ratio was reduced on the textures. Eve is large enough as it is already.
Furthermore, ever tried zooming in on a ship before? Hold your right mouse button and move the mouse and you will see far worse pixellation on your ship than there is in PI. Everything in eve is pixelated if you look closely enough.
Originally by: Jim Luc
I agree though, while I'm not sure why other games can have high res textures and Eve can't, if the reason is a memory or a game engine issue (are we still on DX9??), then I guess I understand why we get the lower quality images.
The reason other games can have nicer textures is because they are built with nicer textures in mind from the ground up. Eve has it's problems, it's not even close to having a good render routine and yes, it's running on DX9... Yes, a lot of graphical calculations STILL happens on the CPU as opposed to the GPU. This is a problem with the eve client as a whole, not just some textures on some planets.
Originally by: Jim Luc
The cover artwork and all of the videos produced by CCP are shot in ultra high quality. For those of us with textures set to high, I think we should get the ultra high quality. Simply being "good enough" isn't quite what I'm after. I don't really get a sense of vertigo looking down on the planet when the planet and clouds are pixelated.
It's quite rare to see actual game footage used to promote a game. (Even in this age) The videos produced are not made with any ingame footage, it's all made in a render studio (Possibly Maya or 3D studio) and there is a lot of after editing on the videos to make them look nice in every aspect. Also if those of us who could run "ULTRA HIGH PWNBATMAN" settings would get the option to use those settings CCP would have to go back to a Premium vs classic client release as the size of the premium is something most people wouldn't wanna download at 1 MBit/s. Would you apply for a internship at CCP so you could maintain the second client for free?
Just be happy eve isn't looking like it did before the second graphical update.
And also, heheeheh... there are pixels in my image...
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Snabbik Shigen
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Posted - 2010.05.11 11:22:00 -
[422]
23h cycle is better but it should've been shortened to 22h to allow more flexibility in people's schedules.
The 30m extraction duration is too short. Make the standard durations 5h, 10h, 20h, 40h and 80h.
Give people the option to stop and manually re-survey without having to rip out and replace the extractor. Which also fixes the need that people have for more flexible scheduling of their game time.
Extractors should ALWAYS run on a 15 min cycle. The varying cycle length is needlessly complex and is going to be confusing.
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Foreman Janeau
NextGen Engineering
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Posted - 2010.05.11 11:28:00 -
[423]
tl;dr the entire topic, so I have 3 questions:
1) Is PI available on the W-space planets? 2) Are the orbitting cargo hangars/planetary structure destroyable by capsuleers? 3) If (2==yes){ Will they be defendable by gun/ewar batteries?; } ________________
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ihcn
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Posted - 2010.05.11 11:57:00 -
[424]
Edited by: ihcn on 11/05/2010 12:01:32 The first thing that struck me about the need to upgrade links is that it's very annoying to have to
1. attempt to place a route 2. notice that this route would overload some links (or not notice, and receive an error) 3. upgrade each overloaded link 4. see if the upgrades were enough by trying to place the route again
I fully support the notion of making people upgrade heavily-used routes, but it needs to be a little more streamlined. Perhaps opening up a dialog box that tells you "some of the links would have to be upgraded, it would take a total of 432 extra cpu and 454353 extra power grid, do you want to do this?" would make it a little easier to use. If the user says yes, the links will automatically be upgraded to the necessary levels.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.05.11 12:58:00 -
[425]
Originally by: Foreman Janeau Edited by: Foreman Janeau on 11/05/2010 11:38:28 tl;dr the entire topic, so I have 3 questions:
1) Is PI available on the W-space planets? 2) Are the orbitting cargo hangars/planetary structures destroyable by capsuleers? 3) If (2==yes){ Will they be defendable by gun/ewar batteries?; }
1. Yes (but you cannot remote scan for resources such planets unless in the system itself) 2. No
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Vordel
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:55:00 -
[426]
You need to make upgrading links cheaper. Right now it cheaper to place a whole new link before a congestion point and divert traffic then it is to upgrade the link. Kinda defeats the purpose of link upgrades. Upgrades needs to be more efficient or at least the same efficiency of a new link. Not 80% of cost for 50% of traffic.
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Salizar Amolkshue
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Posted - 2010.05.11 14:43:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Anela Cistine ... Many people can't rearrange their lives around video games. Forcing them to adhere to specific timers to "play" the game is just plain bad.
I completely agree with and endorse this statement. EvE is a game, first and foremost. I should not have to "clock in" at the same time every day just to play it.
As others have suggested, give us a slider for extraction rate that adjusts the efficiency & rate. A min value of 30 minutes and a max value of 7 days would be great, in 30 minute increments. That way I can choose to play the game MY way. Other people can play the game THEIR way. And we all go to bed happy at night not worrying that our extractors are going to stop digging at 3am.
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Magis Drannor
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Posted - 2010.05.11 14:49:00 -
[428]
Biggest thing i would like to see is a way to activate multiple extractors at once on a planet. Much like how you can drag guns together in the fitting service. I find it very tedious going through and clicking them 1 by one on 6 planets. Only bug i have found so far is that After you build your cc and submit it, you have to exit planet view and re-enter before you can continue building things.
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.11 15:02:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Anela Cistine We need either way more options for deposit time, or the ability to stop the extraction without demolishing the extractor.
I set a 24 hour timer, and log back in 22 hours later, but I can't do anything for 2 more hours. But maybe I need to go out or I just need to go to bed early tonight, and I can't hang around playing EVE for another 2-3 hours. If I go to bed now my extractors will go idle in 2 hours, and all my other factories will stop soon after. Everything will stop for at least 4 hours after that, maybe longer if I don't have time to play video games for half an hour in the morning before I head off to work or school.
Likewise, there are plenty of people who can't play on the weekend and probably some people who can only play on the weekend -- the 4 day timer is terrible for both of them. People will have to be doing all kinds of crazy math trying to figure out if the get more resources running the 4 day extraction, or running a 1 day extraction and then letting everything go dark for X hours.
Many people can't rearrange their lives around video games. Forcing them to adhere to specific timers to "play" the game is just plain bad.
Agreed completely.
The easiest way to fix this problem is to get rid of the timers entirely. Abandon the concept of "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time". Each extractor should pull an amount of resources per cycle dependent only upon the heat map at the time.
If CCP thinks that that's a bad game design change, then an alternative solution is to have extractors start off extracting a certain number of resources per unit time, which gradually decreases as time goes on, but gets reset when the player looks at the planet from their NeoCom. (Really, that's what the current system amounts to; the difference would be the removal of explicit extraction timers. Removing those timers would be a good thing; scrapping the "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time" concept would be a better thing.)
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I now notice that the cycle times are different for each deposit selection. This makes things more confusing for the player. Please make all cycles 5 minutes long, or change the PER CYCLE column to PER HOUR.
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Your link upgrade numbers have issues, please check them. Upgrading links becomes less CPU-efficient and Powergrid-efficient per upgrade when upgrading towards "III - Standard", and then becomes more efficient per upgrade when upgrading after "III - Standard". When compared to a link that has not been upgraded at all, links don't become more efficient on Powergrid until "VI - Expedited" and don't become more efficient on CPU until "VIII - Advanced".
By "efficiency", I refer to Total Capacity divided by Total CPU Requirement (or divided by Total Powergrid Requirement) at each upgrade level.
What I've noticed trying to harvest Noble Metals and Heavy Metals on planets in Gurista space is that an extractor on a typical hotspot with an un-upgraded direct link to a storage facility can harvest a 5-hour deposit without overloading the link (provided that a second extractor's output isn't routed through the first extractor and then over the same link). The current link upgrade numbers seem to encourage giving each extractor it's own direct, unupgraded link to the storage facility that's going to buffer it's output.
I do notice that encouraging players to make more direct links (as opposed to trying to route multiple large flows through the same link) does avoid the micromanagement issue of having to upgrade links. After all, if it's more efficient to just create new links, then why bother upgrading links? One would only upgrade a link if a single route were overloading a link all by itself. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Vordel
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Posted - 2010.05.11 15:08:00 -
[430]
You need to have someone round off those capacities for link upgrades. Level 10-experimental is 14416.2597656
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Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift New Eden Research
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Posted - 2010.05.11 15:45:00 -
[431]
I understand planet types will change when it hits TQ, but I do hope somebody's making a note of all the planets already described in PF (like Starkmanir Prime as Arzad II) and keeping at least those the same...
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.11 16:06:00 -
[432]
Clicking expedited transfer in storage with nothing selected -> error message.
When in station attempting to launch rocket from spaceport -> message : you must be in same system. I am in the same system, but docked. Undocked, I can launch. Message is misleading.
Resurveying 6 planets and expediting -> OMFG what a horror of a clickfest. My mousearm can't take it tbh. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.11 17:10:00 -
[433]
It would be very nice to have a visual indicator of when a link is overloaded; color it red or something.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.05.11 18:22:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Cadde
Originally by: Jim Luc
I see pixels in your images. There shouldn't be any pixels - that's what I'm trying to say. It looks terrible when there are pixels.
Just be happy eve isn't looking like it did before the second graphical update.
And also, heheeheh... there are pixels in my image...
Sisi was slightly higher resolution before the last update, that's all I'm trying to say. It wasn't quite what I want, but it was better than it is now. I'm not a big MMO player - most of them have terrible graphics. With only 300k subscribers, Eve Online can up its graphical settings because most people play it either at lowest res, or at full res. 6 Gigs vs 7 Gigs full download isn't a big deal to most people.
I'm only a casual Eve player - and am attracted to it for many reasons, but I would also like to see some more quality put into the visual and cinematics similar to other games in this generation (or even similar to the commercials).
It's pretty deceiving to be a new player going "why isn't the game anything like the commercials?" Most new games' commercials are shown in the game's resolution, unless it is pre-rendered.
Anyways - CCP will do what it wants I guess.... It's no secret that I'm not very happy with the way PI is turning out. It's way too confusing for the casual gamer to pick up and play.
A few small suggestions:
disable buttons or grey them out if there is a timer or something that will cause a stupid error message to pop up. Why show the error message in the first place? Just enable/disable the option.
Extractors are simple and I like the way they are currently. Scanning, place extractor, etc. Where it gets really confusing is the processors. If I place a simple metals extractor - how do I know what processor to place without first placing it and spending my money??? A list of possible "inputs" NEED to be visible BEFORE you set the processor down. Also, searching through the huge list is terrible - you need to make it easier to skip right to the correct input. Put in a quick search bar or something.
Bottom line - I see how it's getting complicated, but no effort has been made to simplify things for the casual player. You can keep it complicated - it's great, but also basic game design mandates an entry level that eases the player into how it's played.
Oh, and what's up with upgrading my CC from basic to Elite?? A few things are great, but others are like.... who the hell came up with this???
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Raekek
Caldari New Eden Regimental Navy Rebel Alliance of New Eden
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Posted - 2010.05.11 19:39:00 -
[435]
Just a few issues/suggestions:
I spent about 8 million isk on a Plasma planet on a system dedicated to producing Robotics. I was using an elite CC and power output wasn't maxed out but it was near the max efficiency possible for making the item on that planet. It makes 3 units of Robotics every 1-2 hours (extractors set to extract for 24 hrs). According to Eve-Central, 1 unit of Robotics is worth about 5,000 isk. At this cost it would take around 30-45 days to earn back the isk I spent to create the system. You could earn 8 mil in a Procurer in a day or two (or less). I'm not sure if that was your intention but I think the costs of the CC units should be reduced a bit, or at least reduce their cycle times or something.
I have a great suggestion, why not add planet filters to the Map? This would making searching for the right planet soo much easier, maybe even filter stars by planet type?
Bugs: -Really laggy -After removing an extractor its circular-disc placeholder thing was stuck there permanently, couldn't click on it or build anything over it - only happened once.
Overall I think you've done a great job with the new content. Planets are no longer just eye candy and it adds a TON of depth to the game!! /clap
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Gouverneur
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Posted - 2010.05.11 20:14:00 -
[436]
Err, I'm really missing Pricetags in Build-Tab. That small line showing entire cost is easily overseen.
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snake driver
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.11 22:00:00 -
[437]
As far as SISI is concerned, it would be nice to be able to be reimbursed for isk invested in PI when changes to the system force you to scrap everything and rebuild. I've burned through almost 100 mil in the last week or so - not a sustainable rate of spending.
More importantly, the inability to upgrade a command center without scrapping everything on a planet is flat-out poor design, in addition to not making much sense. What I would suggest would be to allow multiple command centers on a planet, but only use the power and CPU output of the largest, or simply allow me to build a new CC by dropping it right on top of the old one. Either way, this allows for the gradual build-up of planets without forcing me to waste a ton of resources on replacing built structures.
It would be nice to be able to shift resources between to starports on the same planet without having to spend 15 isk per unit/m3 going through the space dock.
I may be in the minority here, but I liked the previous setup for resource extraction times. The ridiculous output rate of the 30-minute cycle meant that it was possible for a person to set up 6 planets and then do nothing but maintain them - by the time they were done with the last planet, the first in line would be ready for updates. This makes sense with CCP's stated goal of making any and all options viable in EVE. It made sense that people who were willing to dedicate more time to PI would have greater incomes. People who are willing to spend more time mining or running missions get greater incomes as well. It allows PI to work better as a stand alone activity rather than something that you let run in the background and don't think about most of the time.
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Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.11 22:06:00 -
[438]
Originally by: snake driver As far as SISI is concerned, it would be nice to be able to be reimbursed for isk invested in PI when changes to the system force you to scrap everything and rebuild. I've burned through almost 100 mil in the last week or so - not a sustainable rate of spending.
More importantly, the inability to upgrade a command center without scrapping everything on a planet is flat-out poor design, in addition to not making much sense.
It's Sisi; if you need money, buy the most valuable (T1) ship you can fly for 100 isk, go out and self destruct. Buy insurance for that extra little boost. Free money.
I agree with you on the command centers, though. It really should be possible to upgrade command centers.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.05.12 00:54:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
The easiest way to fix this problem is to get rid of the timers entirely. Abandon the concept of "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time". ...... If CCP thinks that that's a bad game design change, then an alternative solution is to have extractors start off extracting a certain number of resources per unit time, which gradually decreases as time goes on, but gets reset when the player looks at the planet from their NeoCom. (Really, that's what the current system amounts to; the difference would be the removal of explicit extraction timers.
This. The current design is based around a click-sink.
This is not good game-play and just makes another click bottleneck for people to macro.
Abandon the click-sink and instead use solid gameplay to hold it together rather then repetitive senseless actions.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.12 01:34:00 -
[440]
I noticed that now if you double-click an extractor, it'll automatically survey for deposits and if you double-click a processor, it'll go to the schematic tab. Nice. Now performing the most common actions only takes a few double clicks instead of 7-8 clicks--ie: now you can double-click an idle extracor, double-click the cycle setting you want, then double click the product and double-click where you want to route it.
It doesn't save much in the total number of clicks involved, but there's much less cursor travel require now--I'd rather do one double-click than two single clicks in different spots.
Now if we could just select/define groups of extractors and work with them all at once, it'd actually be fairly painless to work with.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.12 01:36:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
The easiest way to fix this problem is to get rid of the timers entirely. Abandon the concept of "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time". ...... If CCP thinks that that's a bad game design change, then an alternative solution is to have extractors start off extracting a certain number of resources per unit time, which gradually decreases as time goes on, but gets reset when the player looks at the planet from their NeoCom. (Really, that's what the current system amounts to; the difference would be the removal of explicit extraction timers.
This. The current design is based around a click-sink.
This is not good game-play and just makes another click bottleneck for people to macro.
Abandon the click-sink and instead use solid gameplay to hold it together rather then repetitive senseless actions.
AGREED. The UI and gameplay was designed by interns.
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Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.12 03:47:00 -
[442]
Another thing that would be nice is the ability to set temporary markers on the planets surface, so you can mark out deposits while planning your bases.
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Circumstantial Evidence
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Posted - 2010.05.12 03:53:00 -
[443]
[seen in v.150907] Sometimes I want to mass-delete links from the link display UI. It's possible to shift-select or ctrl-select links in the list. If I select all links in the list, and click "delete link", only one is removed. I'd also like the delete key to work here.
Over on the routes "tab", it's not possible to select more than one at a time.
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Circumstantial Evidence
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Posted - 2010.05.12 04:03:00 -
[444]
Quote: Another thing that would be nice is the ability to set temporary markers on the planets surface, so you can mark out deposits while planning your bases.
Extractors can be placed & deleted anywhere [light orange outline], no charge until you click 'submit'
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.05.12 04:56:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
This. The current design is based around a click-sink. This is not good game-play and just makes another click bottleneck for people to macro. Abandon the click-sink and instead use solid gameplay to hold it together rather then repetitive senseless actions.
AGREED. The UI and gameplay was designed by interns.
I beg to DISAGREE. That's an overstatement. It's designed by 5-10 year olds.
Proof - see pic at bottom page. |
Zedia Zhane
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Posted - 2010.05.12 05:00:00 -
[446]
Edited by: Zedia Zhane on 12/05/2010 05:02:24 Variable extractor durations is a horrible idea.
All the routes are based on quantity. If all my extractors have the same cycle time, it's easy to see how much raw material is coming in to my storage facility just by adding up the incoming route numbers, and dividing by the fixed extractor cycle time.
If extractors are running on different cycle times, then all that goes out the window. And the "quantity" column in the Routes pane becomes utterly meaningless. I now have to check each extractor individually, compute it's raw materials harvested per hour (which, by the way I now need a spreadsheet for). And then add up all extractors routed to that storage facility.
Meanwhile, there's no longer any sort of standard for the various deposits... each has a different number of units over a different cycle length. So in practice (not with the arbitrary deposits currently on Sisi), you will have to crunch numbers just to figure out what the units/hour extraction rate is for each deposit so you can compare them.
What is needed is a way to stop an extractor mid-cycle. Just press a 'stop' button, and it delivers what it has, and stops, ready to look for a new deposit. Make it work the same way a strip miner does when you stop it mid-cycle.
Then nobody ever has to log on at some obscurely scheduled time to update their extractors. When an extractor gets close to finishing off a deposit, just stop it and move to a new deposit.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.12 06:09:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
This. The current design is based around a click-sink. This is not good game-play and just makes another click bottleneck for people to macro. Abandon the click-sink and instead use solid gameplay to hold it together rather then repetitive senseless actions.
AGREED. The UI and gameplay was designed by interns.
I beg to DISAGREE. That's an overstatement. It's designed by 5-10 year olds.
Proof - see pic at bottom page.
Ha! The funny thing is PI in its current form is pretty true to that pic - but the buttons beside the CC would have been a great addition to the UI had they kept it in.
A simple idea - which I doubt anyone reads my posts anymore, it seams the nerds love this, but those who actually play simulation games are ignored....
A simple idea would be to add a UI layer of commonly used buttons that surround each node when selected. A left and right arrow on each side will cycle through the nodes, panning to each fluidly.
They still haven't fixed the bug where if you are placing a building, and click and drag the planet to pan to a better location - IT PLACES THE DAMN BUILDING when you release the button! This should be fixed. It's a simple fix, I'm surprised it has gotten through to this build.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.05.12 06:42:00 -
[448]
Can some explain to me why I have to use "expedited transfers" to move things from storage to another storage? What is wrong with creating a route?
In fact I don't really get what the "expedited transfers" are for at all, I must be missing something... It seems weird to set up a system with an unnecessary manual step.
(Obviously I can work around this (it won't be as clean of course), I'm just saying I don't understand it thats all. Especially since the storages have to have a continuous link between them to make the transfer anyways...) -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Miquela
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Posted - 2010.05.12 07:29:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
The easiest way to fix this problem is to get rid of the timers entirely. Abandon the concept of "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time". Each extractor should pull an amount of resources per cycle dependent only upon the heat map at the time.
If CCP thinks that that's a bad game design change, then an alternative solution is to have extractors start off extracting a certain number of resources per unit time, which gradually decreases as time goes on, but gets reset when the player looks at the planet from their NeoCom. (Really, that's what the current system amounts to; the difference would be the removal of explicit extraction timers. Removing those timers would be a good thing; scrapping the "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time" concept would be a better thing.)
Following up on that thought, and as another poster suggested,
have the extractors have declining resources over time, that can be reset by rescanning for that resource. This will decrease the click-fest, will still allow different cycles, and also stays true to the "you need to do something" principle, that in itself is sensible, otherwise it would just be free income.
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ihcn
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Posted - 2010.05.12 08:05:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
The easiest way to fix this problem is to get rid of the timers entirely. Abandon the concept of "Players who look at the planet more frequently get more resources per cycle time". ...... If CCP thinks that that's a bad game design change, then an alternative solution is to have extractors start off extracting a certain number of resources per unit time, which gradually decreases as time goes on, but gets reset when the player looks at the planet from their NeoCom. (Really, that's what the current system amounts to; the difference would be the removal of explicit extraction timers.
I fully agree with this. I love the idea of being able to select different "deposits" that all have diminishing returns on different levels, so that one deposit gives you great yield at first but drops off quickly, and another one is much smoother, but that seems too complicated; any kind of interface wouldn't be intuitive etc.
So the best alternative is to do away with deposits entirely, and have a single system of diminishing returns. The player clicks a button on the extractor, and without having to select anything, it begins extracting at whatever amount. is determined by the resource concentration of the land it is on. It continues running cycles until the player comes back, clicks a "stop extracting" button, and resurveys.
Imagine the formula "(initial*2)/(cyclecount+1)". Let's say initial is 10000. On the first half-hour cycle, you get 10000 units. I can't check because singularity is in downtime right now, but this seems similar to what a half-hour deposit might currently get. the second cycle, however, would only yield (10000*2/3), or 6666 units. The total for the two cycles would be 16666. Half of this is 8333, so you effectively get 8333 per cycle. Ten cycles, or 5 hours, would be 10000*2/11, or 1818. you would only get 1818 for the 10th cycle. The sum of all yields from cycles 1 to ten is just 40397, which comes out to the equivalent of 4k per cycle, less than half that of running your extractor for one cycle.
48 cycles or 24 hours, would give you a total of 69k units, or 1449 per cycle. 192 cycles (96 hours) would yield 96849, or just 504 per cycle.
If you ran it for 2 weeks, you would get 121k units, at the equivalent of 181 units per cycle.
In this way, players who want to check every 6 cycles will be rewarded more than players who want to check every 5 cycles, etc.
It seems like a lot of these numbers are higher than they can be found on singularity currently (the 96 hour one definitely is), but I cannot emphasize how easy it is to change numbers around to get what you want.
The new system would have the advantages of simplified interface, a more intuitive design, and a more fine-grained ability to reward players who put more effort in, without punishing people who can only get on eve every 8 hours rather than every 5.
The only disadvantage is that managing links becomes more complicated, but I would honestly welcome a change from the current system. Perhaps extractors could have like 500m3 of space, and the route creation system would autofill the exact number of units that the links in the route could handle, and the rest would go in storage. The net effect would be that a player with long periods between resurveys could keep un-upgraded links because the small storage of the extractor would provide a buffer for the initial cycle or two of high volume. But a player who kept resurveying every half hour would be forced to upgrade their links, otherwise the storage space on the extractor would overflow and the materials would be lost.
It's a shame that this was brought up a week before release, because I think this could work out really really well. Much better than the current system.
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Odyessus
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Posted - 2010.05.12 09:48:00 -
[451]
Edited by: Odyessus on 12/05/2010 10:01:27 Note to industrials: Your Customs Office will be permacamped with reds & bubbles. I see no mechanic to dissuade this behaviour.
edit: and i think this is good!
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Fritz Ionar
Minmatar LifeLine Solutions
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Posted - 2010.05.12 10:46:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Odyessus Edited by: Odyessus on 12/05/2010 10:01:27 Note to industrials: Your Customs Office will be permacamped with reds & bubbles. I see no mechanic to dissuade this behaviour.
edit: and i think this is good!
That's why I plan to do my PI in high sec
Or only use the CC-launch option since the can apears at a random spot and can't be camped if I understand it correctly.
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.12 12:00:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Fritz Ionar
Originally by: Odyessus Edited by: Odyessus on 12/05/2010 10:01:27 Note to industrials: Your Customs Office will be permacamped with reds & bubbles. I see no mechanic to dissuade this behaviour.
edit: and i think this is good!
That's why I plan to do my PI in high sec
Or only use the CC-launch option since the can apears at a random spot and can't be camped if I understand it correctly.
Correct. It's technically a cargo container, and thus can't be scanned with probes. To catch you at the container, someone has to wait for you to drop out of warp next to the container, then scan to see where you are (trivial if one correctly assumes which planet you're warping to for the pickup), then warp to the scan result. Presumably, you would have already aligned by the time the scan probes returned a result on you, so you'd be warping out while an ambush was warping in, just in time to see you leave (unless you're very slow).
However, it's limited to payloads of 500 cubic meters. I hope you're not picking up Precious Metals from a Barren planet to take to a different planet for manufacturing Enriched Uranium.
-----
In Build 151334, I see CCP changed the capacities for each level of Link upgrades. Thank you, it's an improvement. However, "II - Basic" is still less CPU-efficient than un-upgraded, and "I - Local" is both less CPU-efficient and Powergrid-efficient than un-upgraded. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Avoida
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Posted - 2010.05.12 15:58:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue It's technically a cargo container, and thus can't be scanned with probes. To catch you at the container, someone has to wait for you to drop out of warp next to the container, then scan to see where you are (trivial if one correctly assumes which planet you're warping to for the pickup), then warp to the scan result. Presumably, you would have already aligned by the time the scan probes returned a result on you, so you'd be warping out while an ambush was warping in, just in time to see you leave (unless you're very slow).
The cargo container does not appear in space until it's owner initiates warp to the bookmark which appears in their journal..and that bookmark is good for 5 days. Within those 5 days, it's guaranteed that a window of opportunity will appear which will allow them to safely get their materials.
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Foxy Ooze
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Posted - 2010.05.12 21:20:00 -
[455]
Edited by: Foxy Ooze on 12/05/2010 21:20:36 Currently (before today's last reboot) It seems that you can place command centers on any planet from any location within the solar system -- isn't this supposed to be working only when you're actually physically at the planet ?
Also, is SiSi down every night (GMT TZ) ?
Foxy
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Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.13 05:25:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Circumstantial Evidence
Quote: Another thing that would be nice is the ability to set temporary markers on the planets surface, so you can mark out deposits while planning your bases.
Extractors can be placed & deleted anywhere [light orange outline], no charge until you click 'submit'
But only if you've already placed and confirmed your command center. I want this so I'll know where to best place that command center.
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Rantace
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Posted - 2010.05.13 06:20:00 -
[457]
Is it supposed to be a Customs office at each planet? Because atm i have only one in system and its linked with launchpad on the same planet, so i cant export anything from other planet in the same system. Or could i somehow link my launch pads on different planets? |
Dark Matter4
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Posted - 2010.05.13 06:46:00 -
[458]
Something I'd like to see and think the current version needs is either skills or upgrades to boost command center Power Grid and reduce processor cycle time. Should that be done in skill form I'd have no problem with them being rank 5-8 skills too.
Just to throw out some random numbers of what I was thinking; A nice 5% PG boost per level skill could boost an elite center from the current 19,000 to 23,750. Also skill(s) to reduce processor and advanced processor times of 30 and 60 minutes down to around 20 and 40 minute would be nice.
It just seems kind of pathetic that a maxed out elite center setup on a 0.0 planet only produces 20 coolant an hour. This. Yes there is some spare PG on that setup but it wouldn't do any good as it would take at least 3,900 PG more worth of stuff to increase that output by a cycle of 5 to 25 an hour.
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Rhieks
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Posted - 2010.05.13 07:09:00 -
[459]
noticed some strange behavior of a progress circle
extractors were started simultaneously with the submit button. they are both at the beginning of the cycle. one of them shows correct progress arc, "done", like any other, and the second one shows "remaining" though. this slight bug might be caused by that extractor being selected while hitting 'submit'.
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Jilhaan
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Posted - 2010.05.13 09:26:00 -
[460]
Are the available resources on the w-space planet nearer to the conquerable 0.0 space, or closer to HS ? Or even nor one or another, the wh is to be considered as a particular case ?
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.13 11:27:00 -
[461]
As a general trend, I like how Planetary Interaction is improving, thank you for your time and effort on this new feature. With that said, I'm going to focus on what seems to still need work.
On build 151614, I notice that the Powergrid and CPU requirements are still rising too quickly for "I - Local" and "II - Basic". It looks like the numbers here haven't changed from build 151334.
I understand the need to wipe all existing planetary infrastructure for testing purposes, but having to set up my networks all over again does highlight the continued need to be able to issue mass orders to multiple nodes at once, especially if the extractors aren't going to be changed to any sort of continuous operation mode.
I'm still awaiting output from my most recent planetary networks in Gurista space, but I think I might be able to use three planets to produce 40 Enriched Uranium an hour: one planet harvesting heavy/toxic metals, a second harvesting noble/precious metals, and a third to combine the toxic and precious metals into enriched uranium. The powergrid on the first two planets are stretched to the limit; only Elite Command Centers are used. Is this the intended production level for this resource?
Planetary Interaction can produce materials needed for players to manufacture Control Towers and other starbase modules, obviating the need for these modules to be purchased and hauled from NPC-owned stations. You might want to take the next logical step and allow these same materials to be used by players to manufacture Planetary Command Centers.
Given the powergrid limitations, the ideal extractor:processor ratio will vary widely depending upon how frequently the player intends to examine the planet in PLANET VIEW. Players who intend to visit less frequently should use more extractors, and players who intend to visit more frequently should use more processors. Given that ISK needs to be spent on the creation of extractors and processors (and pretty much any other node), and also given that the frequency with which a player can tend to their planetary networks is susceptible to fluctuation, I'm going to reiterate my opinion that the "Players who examine their planets more often get more extractor output" concept be abandoned as an annoying, not enriching, gameplay mechanic.
Many structures still tend to require far more powergrid than CPU, with the only apparent exceptions being High-Tech production facilities and Starports. Consequently, CPU limitations are currently meaningless. You may want to consider rebalancing the numbers. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Mean Molly
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Posted - 2010.05.13 11:29:00 -
[462]
On one planet you can have 15-20 extractors generating the raw material.
The "Game" part of planetary interaction seem to be double clicking these extractors every 30min. This seems extremely repetetive and boring IMO, so I make some suggestion to make it less dull.
Instead of adding multiple extractors in tight formation, you only have one which you can upgrade (double power for double extraction) The "Game" part of mineral gathering is changed so that the extractors need to be moved to a new spot every 30min. This means you have to survey and choose another spot, and have to consider how you deplete the area you are in.
This would be much more interesting gameplay than simply double clicking static structures.
To sum it up: Extractors are upgradable from 2x to 10x Extractors are movable with links intact Extractors deplete the ground it stand on from 30min to 24h depending on cycle time Surveying is made more challenging interaction Surveying get more accurate with skill
I fear its too late for such feedback, however I cant help give my 2c ;) --- Live and learn, die and learn more! http://www.dukefoss.com/eve/ |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 12:31:00 -
[463]
Just had a nifty idea: Let's add a toggle to the options that allows you to switch from displaying icons on the planet to displaying the building meshes instead. When selecting a building in mesh mode, it displays the icon on top of the mesh, similar to how the mesh is displayed on top of the icon. This would allow people whole like looks over function to go for looks. --------
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.05.13 13:04:00 -
[464]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 13/05/2010 13:11:47
I would also prefer an extractor stacking mechanism.. just not funny to arrange them crudely in tightest ball package to get them all on the hotspot..
http://img101.imageshack.us/i/pitightpackage.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
If we can't get that, would it be possible to get some stacking help down there? If I place a pin on the edge of another one, could the automatic please move it as far out as the smallest distance can be? And the same if I place another one at the edge of two already there? This would hexagonal pinning not so painfull..
We then need upgraded links to the storage or whatever anyways, so savings on links here aren't gamebreaking.
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Sierra Grook
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Posted - 2010.05.13 14:04:00 -
[465]
The customs office in space has a gigantic sig radius, in fact my hauler bumps into it when the office seems to be 2-3km away. Also warping to it at 0 will bump you away from it. This will be painful to navigate with haulers.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.13 19:26:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 13/05/2010 13:11:47
I would also prefer an extractor stacking mechanism.. just not funny to arrange them crudely in tightest ball package to get them all on the hotspot..
http://img101.imageshack.us/i/pitightpackage.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Alternately, re-balance the depletion/regeneration rates to make stacking tons of extractors in one spot counter-productive.
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Petteri Osala
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:31:00 -
[467]
The customs offices do have the annoying tendency of bumping you off on warp in. It would be nice if this could be changed.
There also doesn't seem to be a way to upgrade an existing command center short of tearing down the entire colonies infrastructure and starting over. So you'll want train for an improved or advanced command center before even starting. Any less would be a waste of ISK and time.
Once you have a few colonies up and running, it becomes a hassle to manage the bloody things. What I find lacking is a planetary overview screen with all extractors, factories and storage, their current status (running, waiting for resources, time to depletion, capacity ect.) and the ability to from that screen click trough to any PIN and fix things, resurveying mostly. A report of what a planet has generated in stuff in the last hour/day/week/month? would be nice. Something like "Planet Rens I has extracted 10000 units aquious liquids, 10000 off these have been processed into water. Water was launch into orbit may 20 12.00 hours." Probably better in a nice table that can be stuck in excel.
I like the new addition of planetary interaction quite a bit as it is now, but I do hope you are capable of continuing development. It's still a bit rough at the moment but has potential for all kinds of cool stuff. |
Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.13 22:15:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Petteri Osala Once you have a few colonies up and running, it becomes a hassle to manage the bloody things. What I find lacking is a planetary overview screen with all extractors, factories and storage, their current status (running, waiting for resources, time to depletion, capacity ect.) and the ability to from that screen click trough to any PIN and fix things, resurveying mostly. A report of what a planet has generated in stuff in the last hour/day/week/month? would be nice. Something like "Planet Rens I has extracted 10000 units aquious liquids, 10000 off these have been processed into water. Water was launch into orbit may 20 12.00 hours." Probably better in a nice table that can be stuck in excel.
Yes, we really need an overview screen in the same vein as the POS's management screen.
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Foxy Ooze
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Posted - 2010.05.13 23:01:00 -
[469]
I think routing needs some work.
Let's take the following scenario:
Spaceport, connected to 4 brand new Advanced industries. They're all producing something that needs 40 Reactive Metals (therefore 160 in total). You drop off 120 Reactive Metals in the spaceport, and start defining routing from the spaceport to each of the 3 industries.
Then, later on, you drop off another 40 Metals, hoping to be able to route them to the 4th industry.
Not possible.
The existing routes take the Metals instantly, and I haven't yet found a way to define a route out of a spaceport, or any storage for that matter, without the material actually being inside the storage.
So the only way to being able to actually set up that 4th route I need is to drop more Metals than all the existing routes would consume together.
Not very comfy
Foxy
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Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.13 23:10:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Jilhaan Are the available resources on the w-space planet nearer to the conquerable 0.0 space, or closer to HS ? Or even nor one or another, the wh is to be considered as a particular case ?
I haven't seen null-sec planets with my own two eyes, but having spent most of my SiSi PI time working with WH planets and empire ones I can tell you so far in SiSi WH planets have been way richer than high-sec ones and I'd venture in guessing they are as rich as null-sec ones (since WH are technically null-sec anyway).
Kay.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 23:47:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Foxy Ooze I think routing needs some work.
Let's take the following scenario:
Spaceport, connected to 4 brand new Advanced industries. They're all producing something that needs 40 Reactive Metals (therefore 160 in total). You drop off 120 Reactive Metals in the spaceport, and start defining routing from the spaceport to each of the 3 industries.
Then, later on, you drop off another 40 Metals, hoping to be able to route them to the 4th industry.
Not possible.
The existing routes take the Metals instantly, and I haven't yet found a way to define a route out of a spaceport, or any storage for that matter, without the material actually being inside the storage.
So the only way to being able to actually set up that 4th route I need is to drop more Metals than all the existing routes would consume together.
Not very comfy
Foxy
You can route material through the routing tab, even without any material inside the storage. That's how you can set up all routes at establishment of your colony without having to wait for the first extraction cycle to finish. If there's a route, you can route further. --------
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.05.14 02:54:00 -
[472]
I've just rebuilt my PI infastructure and have more comments:
1. Given the way spaceports can be used to import/export materials and that PCC's can only export materials, and also given the new extraction and volume amounts: I conclude that the PCC's need more cargo capacity. They are currently 500m3, spaceports are 10000m3. It's nice to be able to launch off planet w/ spaceports, but one PCC can't even hold a days worth of processed materials if the planet is high yielding. Even making the PCC's capacity half that of a storage unit should be sufficient. As it is, spaceports are necessary even if your only moving material off the planet because of space and transfer timers.
2. I must agree that upgrading a single extractor is much more desirable than having multiple ones for many reasons. Upgrades should consume materials over a greater area. Although working this out in reality might not seem worth it, I assure you the player base will appreciate it.
3. Powergrid/CPU requirements do need tweaking, but they aren't as far off as some people think. Maybe decrease Powergrid requirements for Basic processors by 25% and Advanced by 15% and they'll be more in line. That doesn't solve the perfect configuration problem but it does give some added flexibility. Perfect configuration is based on too many variables that a one-size fits all won't work. But adding flexibility will make it a little easier for people to find a good configuration given the variables present.
Terrific progress since testing v1. Keep up the good work!
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Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.05.14 03:13:00 -
[473]
There is one downside to the single extractor model, and that is with multiple extractors you can add multiple links. This might not even be a factor, if they've made upgrades cost less than links; I haven't looked yet to see if that is the case.
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Rhieks
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Posted - 2010.05.14 13:49:00 -
[474]
Oh and one more. Please add the "open ship cargo" button to the PI UI. While in planet mode, one can perform every action needed to haul resources between planets, except for this one. Have to close the PIUI, then open cargo, then open it again.
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Foxy Ooze
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Posted - 2010.05.14 15:38:00 -
[475]
Abrazzar: Yes, that's correct if there's incoming routes of the produce already. BUt in the event of a spaceport, where you import materials, that's not the case.
Foxy
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:22:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Foxy Ooze Abrazzar: Yes, that's correct if there's incoming routes of the produce already. BUt in the event of a spaceport, where you import materials, that's not the case.
Foxy
If you get imported material automatically moved out of your space port, you already have a route to establish more on. Without routes, you'd have to move the material manually and no material would get moved out without your explicit permission. Maybe I don't understand what exactly your problem is. *shrugs* --------
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John Comer
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:38:00 -
[477]
Just a question; Can you now remove a planetary command center and go to another planet or are you stuck with the 6 planets you satrted on?
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Avoida
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Posted - 2010.05.14 19:45:00 -
[478]
Originally by: John Comer Just a question; Can you now remove a planetary command center and go to another planet or are you stuck with the 6 planets you satrted on?
You can decommission that PCC (losing it) and after purchasing a new PCC put that one on the new planet. PCCs aren't recycled..you don't get them back.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:17:00 -
[479]
PI is shaping up well, there are a few things I disagree with but nothing I'll whine about at this point. Market forces will make them clear eventually.
Somewhat related to market forces, some resource distributions are too restricted. Primarily those things that are unique to some planets. Given the distribution of everything else, high sec is not the sweet spot as it is. There is no need for additional restrictions. All the additional restrictions do is discourage participation by the less adventuresome.
Also, a few planets appear to have zero of some things, and not even unique things, hopefully this is an error.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Thoraxe Rig
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.15 06:53:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy PI is shaping up well, there are a few things I disagree with but nothing I'll whine about at this point. Market forces will make them clear eventually.
Somewhat related to market forces, some resource distributions are too restricted. Primarily those things that are unique to some planets. Given the distribution of everything else, high sec is not the sweet spot as it is. There is no need for additional restrictions. All the additional restrictions do is discourage participation by the less adventuresome.
Also, a few planets appear to have zero of some things, and not even unique things, hopefully this is an error.
Only a handful of systems have the real planet values.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.15 07:58:00 -
[481]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 15/05/2010 08:09:55 ok a couple of points
(1) originaly pinstacking was posible, you could literaly get a virtualy solid line of black on the map and have routs that were virtualy cost free between them meaning that with some planets you can squeeze out an extra Extractor or processor.
however that got nerfed for a couple of reasons on there end (and to be blunt it can be a bit of a pain to light up all the extractors in that kind of network)
2) I frankly think they should make it posible to upgrade the processors and extractors rougly the same way you do the routs, it would solve so many problems on there end from what I can see/however it may not be "mechanicaly" possible due to the way depletion was "suposed" to work. Honestly guys if you are seeing "Scaleabilty issues" on your end of the stick and you have a bloody Server doing the work IMAGIN HOW WE FEEL!
3) there was a reason why they nerfed the CC storage from 10k. it was to make it a bit harder for you to create a network that needs 2 or more storage point to catch raw mats to feed factories
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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William Mill3r
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Posted - 2010.05.15 13:16:00 -
[482]
Ice planets needs some love
Out of all 8 common planets, this one looks like the less appealing...
It can only produces 3 tech 2 items, (which is the least of all planets, most others can natively produce at least 4 tech 2s)
It have a LOT of water & heavy metal, but at the end of the day most planets have water... as for heavy metal, it can't be used to make any tech 2 items directly on ice planets, and there is only test cultures that can be made with water (that you can also make on temperate and oceanic, in probably greater quantity)
Back again on heavy metal if it is in that much quantity on ice planets you expect it to be a little useful but no it ain't that much... it's only required on two tech 2, two tech 3 and two tech 4 items...(one of which only uses 2 tech 3 and one tech 1 so I'm expecting it to not be that expensive) Uranium for pos fuel you are gonna tell me ? well you are better off producing directly on a plasma planet...than exporting noble metal there, and anyway on Plasma planets there is quite a decent amount of Heavy metal too
There is no reason to anybody to own an ice planet, it brings nothing to the table, correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'll trade any day an ice planet for an oceanic planet or plasma planet. It'ssad coz I find ice planets pretty, but I don't see them useful at all... I know they are ice deserting planets and all, so you are gonna tell me it's normal but well, RP aside a minute...
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Xearal
Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project
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Posted - 2010.05.15 13:16:00 -
[483]
Something I've mentioned before, and I really hope will be implemented:
Planetary inter player linking. Right now, if I want to work together with someone, making something, We extract ore, process to basic product, then have to send it up from planet, then trade it, and send it down to the planet again for further manufacture. This is very cumbersome and not a good way to work together. What I propose is either a special building called a trading post, which can interface with others of it's kind on the planet and you can transfer goods from one player to another. This way, you'd be able to really combine harvesting and manufacturing power to a common goal. IE: on a plasma planet, 1 player extracts ore and manufactures mechanical parts, another player manufactures Consumer electronics, and they either trade one for the other or simply send them to either of them or a third player, who then manufactures robotics from those components.
---------------------------------------- I want hollowpoint ammunition for my projectile turrets!
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.15 18:27:00 -
[484]
ok lets see. you fixed the problem caused by the system spawning new values on some extraction cycels. . . by wiping all routing on all extractors. . . thus adding more clicking to the already clickinfested mess that is the ui.
(ben stein voice) im practicaly giddy with excitment.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Mean Molly
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Posted - 2010.05.15 20:35:00 -
[485]
Change routing values to percent instead of raw numbers! That would eliminate the need to reroute if you gain more minerals for changing cycle times. 100% shouold be made default and not even asked for since its used all the time. On those rare occation you like to split in 50/50 you should be able to do it manually.
This would also remove alot of clicking if there was a route mode on the menu to the left. (Also pls make all modes on the menu stick and not default back to selection) --- Live and learn, die and learn more! http://www.dukefoss.com/eve/ |
Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.15 23:40:00 -
[486]
Originally by: William Mill3r Ice planets needs some love
Out of all 8 common planets, this one looks like the less appealing...
I agree that it isn't the most enticing planet, but it is not useless. You might use an ice planet if you don't have a plasma planet (for enriched uranium) or an oceanic planet (for planktonic colonies) near where you want to be. Every system won't have every kind of planet, and an ice planet in the same system as the rest of your stuff is more attractive than a oceanic/plasma planet 5 jumps away.
Even in systems where those other types of planets exist, the ice planet might become worthwhile if you are in a high population system where there are enough people to deplete resources on the most popular planets.
High tech factories might make sense on ice planets. Barren and Temperate planets have solid ground on which to build the factory, but so do ice planets. Once you get significantly below freezing, ice is as solid as rock. Adding high tech factories could make these planets more attractive.
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.16 05:43:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Steve Thomas ok lets see. you fixed the problem caused by the system spawning new values on some extraction cycels. . . by wiping all routing on all extractors. . . thus adding more clicking to the already click infested mess that is the ui.
(ben stein voice) im practicaly giddy with excitment.
Ah, I was beginning to wonder if this was a bug. Though I still think it is.
Really, the clicking thing is a bit much. I really do like how PI works, its pulled up planning skills I normally do at work (Backup Admin).
BUT, I also have had problems with my wrists since college (bus accident, not gaming). This is not making my life any better guys, please reduce the number of clicks a bit.
--A_K
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CrickCrack
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Posted - 2010.05.16 13:19:00 -
[488]
I did some testing on Version 152090 on 16-05-2010
Here some of my findings.
1. Bug: The list (List items in Solar System) that displays the items present in the solar system is not working properly. I refer to the list that should show when pressing the triangle on left top screen near the System info.
2. Bug: Pilot info from other pilots is not showing up when selecting a construction build by another pilot on a planet.
PI is working nicely and it all feels good when playing with it.
3. Request: (EXTRACTOR GROUP SCANNING) I wish I could select multiple EXTRACTORS and do group scanning on all selected extractors at the same time and selecting the recourses to extract.
4. Request: (SAVE ROUTES) I wish I could save all ROUTES I selected for all the EXTRACTORS when I set them up the first time I setup the ROUTES. At the moment you have to reset all routes after the EXTRACTORS have depleted there resource and completed there operation.
5. Request: (WARNING NO ORBIT STATION) I wish the game gave a warning telling me that there is no orbital station around the planet I am setting my command post on. At the moment I can build my base and launch my stuff but I canÆt collect my stuff when launched.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.16 13:40:00 -
[489]
Originally by: CrickCrack 5. Request: (WARNING NO ORBIT STATION) I wish the game gave a warning telling me that there is no orbital station around the planet I am setting my command post on. At the moment I can build my base and launch my stuff but I canÆt collect my stuff when launched.
Check your journal. There's a tab with planetary launches. You can right click -> warp to from the entries in there and collect your launched items from the planetary launch containers there. A space port is not needed to launch items. In fact, items launched with the command center will not ever end up in the customs office. Only way to get items in there is through the space port. --------
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:01:00 -
[490]
first, i like PI, as a pve player, i miss somthing like that. the concept is interesting. but there's lot oo work to do, and i dunno really how this new market will be when live, so dunno if it will realy be intersting. some things need to change i think :
1) we need a way to move the command center without destroying all : all times i tried making a complex structure on the planet, i got to delete extractors, and remaking them far away. as there is no importance for the command center to be near our structures (as only the space port need), we can have a command center far far away from ALL our structures. BUT when we open the planet viewer the camera will always set ON the command center, and it's sometime really hard to find where we make our structures. so we need a way for moving the center place, or a way to move the place the "home" button takes us, or a way to destroy and recreate a command center witohout destroying all our work on the planet.
2) also i have some doubt about the customs office visible for everyone, everywhere on the system. if a planet have one, it means someone here sometime, and if in 0.0 it will mean there is at least a POS near the planet. as lots of little corp who have a little pos in 0.0, but don't live here want to hide the more possible their emplacement, the big "I'M HERE !!" button that the customs office is on the overview seems pretty bad. it will be way better if we view only customs for ours planet, or only see them when we are near them. and not only for playing hide and seek, but also cause when PI will be on tranqulity there will be A LOT of customs office on every system. so there will be no use to see it on empire (as it will flood the overview).
3) as everyone said there is way to much need to click. if we only need it when we do the construction, and never click again, that's not to bad, but if we need to redo this all every cycle, and a lot more when the ressources disapear, it will be to much. need to add some options like ; i will always use 24h cycle when creating extractor, i will always trasnfer all the ressources of the strcuture when creating a link... and only need to click when we want to do something else (like needing to cut the transfert between 2 strcutures and not 1)
4) the scan don't seem really accurate. i duno if it's what you want, and some skill or other will change that, but that's strange for now.
5)i have doubts on the way you choose the numbers on some fuel component. some are producing too quickly, with the same number of structures we need for some way more needed, meaning the market for the first one will collapse quickly, and that's not good. (oxygen for example) on the other hand, the way you designed planet type need seems good, like plasma type planets which are really intersting for creating fuel object easily, but are very hard to find
6) the difference between 0.5+ systems and 0.0 don't seem very strong ; as there's only a x2 factor on the extraction. i don' think that's enough, as PI is a rent, people will prefer the easier way if the risk are not valuable.
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CrickCrack
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Posted - 2010.05.17 00:38:00 -
[491]
I start to dislike PI now !
Here is the WHY !
*** You can build your PI stuff right on top of PI stuff of others *** ( There should be a perimeter around your PI stuff so you claim that part of the planet, building on top of others means NO COMPETITION over planet resources, NO COMPETITION means NO WARS in DUST)
I like to see CCP a comment on this matter and a quick fix before Patch Launch,
If this is not fixed then PI = FAIL.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.05.17 01:30:00 -
[492]
2 words.
Macro Heaven.
CCP has created yet another area of game-play that relies heavily on mouse clicking as it's determining factor. Those who click more get more.
PI is so click-heavy that anyone seriously pursuing it would be mad not to use a macro.
Instead of using clicks as a crutch, design gameplay that can flow without damaging your users hands.
PI could be like R&D where if you *want* to click you can get more.
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.17 11:18:00 -
[493]
The ammount of work put into the PI thing is huge, the interface is really really nice buuuuut there are a few flaws: #1 : you say you are removing npc sell orders...how are the comand centers beeing seeded on the market? You want to remove ncp sell orders and instead you put in a new item...great thinking :P
#2 : the ammounts of clicks required to do stuff is enourmous. Only Chuck Norris and maybe Arnold(don't know yet)can click so many times in 30 minutes.
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.17 15:51:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Hemp Invader The ammount of work put into the PI thing is huge, the interface is really really nice buuuuut there are a few flaws: #1 : you say you are removing npc sell orders...how are the comand centers beeing seeded on the market? You want to remove ncp sell orders and instead you put in a new item...great thinking :P
I think CCP means that CCP is removing NPC sell orders for things like Enriched Uranium, Oxygen, and Coolant, which are fuels for Control Towers. These things will soon be produced by players using Planetary Interaction. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.05.17 15:54:00 -
[495]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 17/05/2010 15:54:55
Originally by: Hemp Invader #1 : you say you are removing npc sell orders...how are the comand centers beeing seeded on the market? You want to remove ncp sell orders and instead you put in a new item...great thinking :P
/signed.. please make them player-manufactured!
Originally by: Hemp Invader #2 : the ammounts of clicks required to do stuff is enourmous. Only Chuck Norris and maybe Arnold(don't know yet)can click so many times in 30 minutes.
/signed.. Damn devs.. if I rescan with an extractor can't this thing just send the new amount through the old route?
Workflow now: *source depleted, extractor waiting* >> doubleclick on the extractor, survey starts (good) >> doubleclick on the new source to select it (ok) *extractor now deletes old route and opens product tab* ( >> doubleclick on the ONLY entry there (wtf? what else should I do besides routing? Just set me into routing mode already at least) >> doubleclick on the destination to create route (GRRR $%~&*!!!, 1 out of 3 times is miss and the route-creating-mode is lost - more clicks)
Workflow wanted: *source depleted, extractor waiting* >> doubleclick on the extractor, survey starts (good) >> doubleclick on the new source to select it (ok) *extractor adjusts old route to new amount (routes as much as possible, to not overload the link or exits with error in case it's not possible) and opens product tab in case I want to change something*
Man.. this stuff needs to be usable! I don't want to mess with routes/links every other day.. that's like re-installing my network connection to the internet for every other download.
Please be human and remove those 2 unneeded doubleclicks right there. If someone want's other values for his routes (as initially) he can do this once in the product tab.. or if error occurs and link can't hold it all, let him upgrade the link or decide how much he wants to route.. Please, I'm begging you!!!
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EnderDragon
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Posted - 2010.05.17 16:09:00 -
[496]
i think extractors should remember their routes, i get having to survey every duration, but having to rebuild the routes on potentially hundreds of extractors every 30 mins is insane. everything else remembers its routes, should i also have to rebuild the routes to my advanced processors every hour? please this is way to much clicking for something that looks potentially not as profitable as a mining ibis in highsec.
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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:02:00 -
[497]
Is there a way to deploy items onto a planet command centre, lets say I made items from a different planet and wanted to deploy it on my 'main' planet (for the sake of production requirements) would they be a way to do this? This is so not my main
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Marius Giarc
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Posted - 2010.05.17 18:18:00 -
[498]
Hey,
So I've tried out PI on Singularity and I find myself asking, can I upgrade my Command Centre on Planet as my Command Centre Upgrades skill increases?
E.g. Say I've got Command Centre Upgrades skill to 4, and have an Advanced Command Centre and associated infrastructure.
Then I skill up to Command Centre Upgrades to 5 two weeks later, and I want to upgrade to an ELITE Command Centre now I have the skills for it.
Is there any way to upgrade my Command Centre from Advanced to ELITE (or whatever level you're at) in Planetary View, or do I have to Decommision my current Advanced Command Centre (which wipes out ALL of my planetary structures, links and resources...) before I can place the ELITE Command Centre and then have to rebuild the whole damn planetary network from scratch again, and repeat that for potentially another five planets as well.
Really doesn't seem like much 'fun' to me, which I thought was one of the goals of adding Planetary Interaction to EVE...
Sorry if this has already been pointed out in the previous 17 pages or other threads on the Forums but I can only read so much... TL;DR.
Cheers, Marius |
Droxlyn
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:03:00 -
[499]
There needs to be an obvious way to cancel making a route. I see no way to cancel making a route (IE a cancel button) when selecting an incoming thing to a storage facility and attempting to route it to a space port. I get an alert message that the route is impossible. At this point, I want to cancel making a route but see no way to do it. (click another type of pin mode does cancel making a route.)
Drox
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:22:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Droxlyn There needs to be an obvious way to cancel making a route. I see no way to cancel making a route (IE a cancel button) when selecting an incoming thing to a storage facility and attempting to route it to a space port. I get an alert message that the route is impossible. At this point, I want to cancel making a route but see no way to do it. (click another type of pin mode does cancel making a route.)
Right-clicking somewhere seems pretty obvious to me.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:48:00 -
[501]
Edited by: Jim Luc on 17/05/2010 20:49:49 I'd give it a 3/10 from what I've played so far....
I am still waiting to see the final iteration though, so things may be improved by launch. A few small modifications would go a long way I think:
Click-drag does not disable PIN placement. This needs to be fixed ASAP. It's embarrassing.
Make Command Centers upgradable (yet you need to still purchase and transport the upgraded CC to the planet). But you cannot upgrade your command center until you have a few on-planet achievements completed. This way, everyone starts a colony with a Basic Command Center, regardless of skills. You can't upgrade if you don't have the skills learned though.
Streamline the input/output UI, giving us the ability to see what input metals a processor takes BEFORE we purchase and build a processor. This way I don't waste my money if I only have a basic metals extractor, and have built an advanced processor which might not take basic metals (I'm still totally confused how to create anything of value).
Put a quick search on each extractor for us to search quickly for the input we want it to start processing.
Allow Command Centers to relocate after they've been built.
Disable or highlight and move the input materials to the top that are currently being extracted on your planet. This way you don't spend tons of time searching the long list, and you can find it quickly.
Allow a route from storage to processor.
If someone can't place a PIN somewhere, don't allow them to move it there. For instance, if I try to place a PIN on top of another PIN, I get a tiny hard to read error message. Instead of this, just snap my PIN to be outside the neighboring PIN's build radious. Give us circles surrounding each PIN, along with distance, proposed CPU load, etc.
If you try to hit submit before the timer is up, a hard to read, annoying message pops up. Just grey out and disable the damned Submit button, with a graphic visual displaying how long before you can click again.
Allow us to see a neighbor's complete PI setup, and make it impossible to place one of our nodes on top of a neighbors node.
Remove the ability to see what a neighbor has in their setup, however allow us to see the PINs. For instance, show a generic PIN icon, instead of showing us exactly what they have, ie processors, extractors, etc.
Increase the resolution of planets as you zoom into them, and when you're at the Orbital Station (I like the rotating planet, it's a great effect, but the planets look terrible all pixelly when you're up close to them like that).
If they can address 5 of these points, I will be more satisfied about this first iteration of PI.
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Droxlyn
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.17 23:50:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Right-clicking somewhere seems pretty obvious to me.
Right-clicking is how you access context menus in eve. It is NOT a cancel operation button.
Drox
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.18 01:24:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Droxlyn
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Right-clicking somewhere seems pretty obvious to me.
Right-clicking is how you access context menus in eve. It is NOT a cancel operation button.
Drox
Yeah, agreed. And the context menus are pretty oldschool. There are many modern, more intuitive ways of user interaction. I wish they'd have listed to us. Now there are those that defend the terrible workflow like they're defending a child, yet anyone with game dev experience knows this is not a very intuitive or enjoyable experience. Hell, Eve's UI in general is pretty bad, but PI is a whole new level of unintuitive....
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thowlimer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.18 01:38:00 -
[504]
Hi Issues so far : 1 - Processed Materials Water and Oxygen are still in their old Trade Goods part of the market more advanced materials like mechanical parts, enriched uranium and so on have all been moved planetary materials, please move those two over as well. 2 - As has been said before the amount of clicking and destruction of old routes each time you survey for a new deposit(leading to more clicking) is a tad annoying. 3 - And lastly for the ... pretty pretty please tell your graphic designers that not all people have prefect vision or sit with their nose pressed against the screen, some of the text and symbols are very hard to read due to poor color choises(grey on green anyone ...) and the minimal fonts that can not be increased.
Other than that i actually like it more than i thought i would. Seems complex enough to hold my attention for a while and not to financially overpowered with the current numbers/ratios.
Thowlimer "Faber est suae quisque fortunae" Appius Claudius Caecus |
gfldex
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Posted - 2010.05.18 01:58:00 -
[505]
I would like to point out that by making extractors upgradeable you could easyly cut down the number of clicks needed to keep production running (and setting it up in the first place) by a factor for 10.
My impression on PI right now is fairly easy expressed: boring waste of time.
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.18 03:40:00 -
[506]
...
1B) we really need a way to replace an old command center with a new bigger one when we got the new skill. now i had to take screenshot of the place i had the extractors and have the camera at the good place, with the UI having the "destroy colony" button, for doing this, and just after add the new CC, and redo 1 extractor of each ressource before i forget where to set them... man that's suck, really. we can upgrade links, so whay can't we upgrade CC without having to destroy all ?
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:43:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Maewei Balducci ...
1B) we really need a way to replace an old command center with a new bigger one when we got the new skill. now i had to take screenshot of the place i had the extractors and have the camera at the good place, with the UI having the "destroy colony" button, for doing this, and just after add the new CC, and redo 1 extractor of each ressource before i forget where to set them... man that's suck, really. we can upgrade links, so whay can't we upgrade CC without having to destroy all ?
Yeah, forcing us to destroy the colony to upgrade the CC is nuts. I'm a little surprised and confused why they are designing the workflow like this. Usually, everything is upgradable, and to keep things fair, you can't immediately build a high-end building before first achieving a few goals first.
The way it's set up currently, nobody will ever build Basic Command Centers except the very new player. But they will soon either give up on PI altogether, or within an hour or two, learn the skills needed to build better command centers.
The way it SHOULD be: CC PINs still need the proper skills to build, however in order to "UPGRADE" (read: upgrade, not destroy) the CC, you need a certain number of extractors, processors, or something.
I know this needs to contribute to the overall market of Eve, so it's important that industrialists are able to build their goods, and that it doesn't cause goods to be over or under priced, etc. However these can be tweaked by reducing/increasing resource seeding, not by making the "game" harder and less intuitive.
I know I've been pretty vocal, and negative about this, but only because I think PI has tons of potential. I like Eve, and I think PI can really contribute to the game. I'd hate to see it as just another niche aspect of the game like mining and moon mining.
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.18 12:38:00 -
[508]
I agree with the need for an ability to upgrade Command Centers.
Also, CCP should either allow extractors to auto-cycle (and get rid of the multiple deposit choices and abandon the "Players who poke planets more get more extractor output) and/or allow players to issue mass-orders to all extractors on a planet simultaneously. Preferably both. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.18 12:46:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
Also, CCP should either allow extractors to auto-cycle (and get rid of the multiple deposit choices and abandon the "Players who poke planets more get more extractor output) and/or allow players to issue mass-orders to all extractors on a planet simultaneously. Preferably both.
a little thing to add is to allow rescanning of an extractor ressource before the end of the duration, for example i use a 24h cycle, but can't be here in 24h, but can in 20h, so in 20h gotta rescan, et reclick a 24h cycle. after all the skill planner was add for the same goal. i don't care about people willing to click every 30mn, but i don't want to need to come back exactly every 24h, i want a way to change it some hour before if needed. the design says that if you click more often you get more ressource. ok. but if i come back after 20h and not 24, then i will click more often. so why it is not possible ?
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Dan Kaneda
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Posted - 2010.05.18 12:54:00 -
[510]
I have a little question for a small thing, but which i think is important, and I haven't found any answers. What about the Icons of the PCC ? I mean, yay there holographique, but black background ? ew :/
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Vordel
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Posted - 2010.05.18 16:28:00 -
[511]
It appears that even though the routes are resetting each extractor duration it doesn't appear to be actually losing the data for the routes. It is keeping track of every route from extractor since I created the colony. Only thing that seems to reset the data is deleting the link. In time, I would imagine this will cause errors when it runs out of room to track the routes.
To see the route data its keeping, open the routes window on an extractor that been depleted. You'll see all previous routes listed. Once you begin a new survey and select a new duration the data disappears from routes window. When the extractor depletes, the data is there again so it is keeping track of it.
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Wedge Reskanor
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Posted - 2010.05.19 00:09:00 -
[512]
Yes, I agree with the need to be able to upgrade existing command centers. You should be able to replace an ADVANCED command center with an ELITE one if you have the skills for the ELITE one and also have it in your cargohold. It would seem simple to just swap in the new command center, or at the very least, have to put down the new command center on the planet and re-form any links going to the new command center. It seems silly to NUKE a whole colony when your just putting down a better command center.
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Koric Blaine
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Posted - 2010.05.19 06:00:00 -
[513]
Can't seem to delete my command centres, sometimes. Not exactly sure how it happens, but I now have two planets that have command centres which I can not delete.
- I click on the CP - press "Decommission" icon - press "Proceed" button - command centre disappears - press the submit button - command centre reappears
I have sucessfully deleted CCs before, I *suspect* it relates to deleting a cc before deleting all other structurss. Not sure, and can't build any more yet to test.
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.19 07:33:00 -
[514]
I have 2 questions: 1) Supose you have 2 people on the same planet, can they both make a spaceport and if they can, will they connect to the same spacelift or whatever it's called?
2) How is the tax implemented? is the 2 isk for export 1 isk for import implemented as 2 isk per m^3 or 2 isk per trip?
/* If i were CCP i would do this postpone the expansion by one month include a way to trade between players on the planets make the upgrade of CCs possible after you have deployed them on a planet make the CCs player built to avoid more NPC sell orders */
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Koric Blaine
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Posted - 2010.05.19 07:58:00 -
[515]
One more minor issue; not sure if this is because of graphics settings or whet, but I can barely see any difference between the normal planet view and the view when I scan for something (with planetology 1 or 2). I've only scanned gas giants so far, but it shows as subtle and impossible-to-interpret minor variations.
Will post screen shots if wanted.
Would be interested in what other people see on gas giants.
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Fritz Ionar
Minmatar LifeLine Solutions
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Posted - 2010.05.19 08:44:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Koric Blaine One more minor issue; not sure if this is because of graphics settings or whet, but I can barely see any difference between the normal planet view and the view when I scan for something (with planetology 1 or 2). I've only scanned gas giants so far, but it shows as subtle and impossible-to-interpret minor variations.
Will post screen shots if wanted.
Would be interested in what other people see on gas giants.
A planet with very low resources will not show much at all in the default setting for scaning. How ever, you can click and drag the slider (between the build/scan-buttons and the list of resources to scan for) to adjust the colormap so lower resources becomes visible.
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.19 12:40:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Hemp Invader
1) Supose you have 2 people on the same planet, can they both make a spaceport and if they can, will they connect to the same spacelift or whatever it's called?
i checked on the first day with an alt : all people see all the custom office created by a launchpad, can open the menu, can open the cargo, but... only the man putting item on it can see them. if you want to exchange them at this place you need to make a can after taking the item in your cargo.
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Rodolfo Jones
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Posted - 2010.05.19 12:45:00 -
[518]
I've been playing with this for a while, I started off simple while waiting for skills to train. Couple observations:
First, please allow a way to cancel a current extraction. As it stands, I can't figure out how to stop a current extraction. It's not inconceivable that you would be able to cancel, end the cycle and re-survey.
Second, I agree with everyone else about the upgrading CC's.
Third, I think the routes setup is a tad confusing to figure out at first but once I understood what I was doing and how to interact with the UI, I thought it was very intuitive.
Lastly, I am curious how any sort of value is going to be placed on anything. Logically, everything from the same tier should cost exactly the same to make except for the import and export costs. Unless there is an issue with rarity and someone finds a way to quantify how much my time is worth, there is no way to differentiate values. Obviously with moon mining and t2 production CCP found a way to create value based off of the rarity of particular moon materials. With the planets set up the way they are, I know exactly what resources I am going to find on a particular planet and there is no competition to get those resources. This makes it so 1 unit of livestock has the same value as 1 unit of enriched uranium and both cost me the same to produce, the only difference being the planet that I had to go to set it up. There needs to be some sort of consumption somewhere along the way. Will all these NPC space stations still need water/food/fuel to function? Will people be able to set up planets to produce to meet these needs? Will there be consumption of resources to set up our colonies? Maybe Smartfab units or construction blocks to build my extractors or facilities thus creating further demand on these items and giving them value? Just some thoughts. I guess I am just not seeing how the economy is going to create value on the different t1/t2/t3/t4 items if we don't have a baseline from which to start.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.19 16:50:00 -
[519]
Originally by: Hemp Invader I have 2 questions: 1) Supose you have 2 people on the same planet, can they both make a spaceport and if they can, will they connect to the same spacelift or whatever it's called?
2) How is the tax implemented? is the 2 isk for export 1 isk for import implemented as 2 isk per m^3 or 2 isk per trip?
/* If i were CCP i would do this postpone the expansion by one month include a way to trade between players on the planets make the upgrade of CCs possible after you have deployed them on a planet make the CCs player built to avoid more NPC sell orders */
It seems like many people agree.
CCP, are you listening?
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Synthmilk
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.19 19:15:00 -
[520]
Edited by: Synthmilk on 19/05/2010 19:17:13 Edited by: Synthmilk on 19/05/2010 19:16:47 I have a number of extractors with daisy chained links set up like this:
extractor7 -link- extractor4 -link- extractor1 .........................................................-link- extractor8 -link- extractor5 -link- extractor2 -link- launchpad .........................................................-link- extractor9 -link- extractor6 -link- extractor3
Then proceeding to install extraction jobs on the extractors starting with E1 and going in numerical order, the link between E2 and the LP get's overloaded when it comes to set up E6. I submit the jobs for E1-E6 (with the E6 output not being routed), then create a link between E3 and the LP, submit it, and try to rout the E6 output to the LP, but I get an error stating that the link would become overloaded.
In order to fix this, I must delete the E2-LP link, resubmit the rout for E6 (which now successfully goes through the E3-LP link), and then resubmit the routs for E1 through E5.
Is the system not supposed to automatically create alternate routs through unused links?
Note: I have not done extensive testing of this as I noticed it only a few minutes before the server went offline.
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Xearal
Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project
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Posted - 2010.05.19 21:24:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Hemp Invader I have 2 questions: 1) Supose you have 2 people on the same planet, can they both make a spaceport and if they can, will they connect to the same spacelift or whatever it's called?
2) How is the tax implemented? is the 2 isk for export 1 isk for import implemented as 2 isk per m^3 or 2 isk per trip?
/* If i were CCP i would do this postpone the expansion by one month include a way to trade between players on the planets make the upgrade of CCs possible after you have deployed them on a planet make the CCs player built to avoid more NPC sell orders */
/Signed
While painfully, point 1 might be nescessary to get it done properly. Trade between players on a planet is something that I really would LOVE, since it will enhance cooperation between players to get the best from a planet. Upgrading CCs on a planet is a given, since it's a massive overhaul and loss of products and productivity if you have to rebuild your colony from scratch. The last one I'm not entirely certain on, since this will probably make it more difficult to get PI production into full swing if people have to start with a basic command center, and get all the goods together to make bigger ones. Since I would assume a CC would be logical to be built with planet-goo. Though if they're built with space goo I supppose it's doable.
---------------------------------------- I want hollowpoint ammunition for my projectile turrets!
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Dr Lau
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Posted - 2010.05.20 02:58:00 -
[522]
I like a lot of the comments here, most of which are more important to implement then this small UI change. Here's my two cents worth about scanning for raw materials: The Min/Max visibility slider should remember its settings independently for each material on the planet.
(TLDR) Let me explain why I bleieve this is true. I was surveying a barren planet hoping to set up a production chain using both noble and base metals. On this particular planet base metals were far more abundant, so I was looking for two hotspots close together. Currently to evaluate potential sites I need to switch on the noble filter, tune the visibility to find a hotspot, then switch over to base metals and re-tune to see if there is a hotspot nearby. If the visibility slider remembered its settings on a per-material basis, then I could switch back and forth at will, evaluating multiple potential sites with the greatest of ease.
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XB7O
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Posted - 2010.05.20 18:33:00 -
[523]
Was wondering if anybody suggested having a way to pull your base item back from your processors, ex. basic processor at 98% but I need to move from this planet immediately (for whatever reason), a way to get all those resources back would be nice :)
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Tigeral
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Posted - 2010.05.20 20:08:00 -
[524]
If on-planet trading is too much of a pain to do in the short term (though it would be the best solution, imho), would it be possible to put a corporate hangar on the customs office? Mebbe a little bit bigger than the personal one?
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.20 21:26:00 -
[525]
On Singularity, has a method for issuing mass-orders to all extractors (and any other new tools to make the mass-clicky go away) been implemented, yet, that I haven't noticed? __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Ender's jane
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Posted - 2010.05.20 21:53:00 -
[526]
The sisi software might have caused damage to my vid-card, possibly resulting in permanent damage.
I have filled a petition, the petition tracking id is 2001968.
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Adorol
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Posted - 2010.05.21 03:46:00 -
[527]
Please make an exception to the build function that prevents a build when you click and drag to rotate the planet. I have attempted to rotate in the middle of a build only to have the building built somewhere that I don't want a dozen times already.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.05.21 03:47:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue On Singularity, has a method for issuing mass-orders to all extractors (and any other new tools to make the mass-clicky go away) been implemented, yet, that I haven't noticed?
They hate users and want us all to experience the wonder that is RSI apparently.
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Dan Kaneda
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Posted - 2010.05.21 10:05:00 -
[529]
I have an issue with an installation.
I produced water and fertilizer on a storm planet. I export the resources with the Custom Office. I bring the product ton another planet on which I have the current little setup :
/storage (water) \ Launchpad -< >-Advanced Facility (Coolant) --> Back to the launchpad. \storage (fertilizer)/
The thing is, was able to send the resources in the storage facilities but I can't route any of the resources towards the Facility. When i create the route I have no submit button. Weird :/
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vipeer
Viper Squad
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Posted - 2010.05.21 12:39:00 -
[530]
I have played a bit with PI and I have these thoughts
1. Command Center should be replaceable with a better one. You can add some kind of penalty for that like a 24h cooldown or something in which time all production is suspended to even things out
2. Automatic routing. Say Aqueus materials should automatically go into the nearest storage facility. One would still be able to change the route to something else later.
3. Products from factories should also automatically be routed to the nearest storage. If both are the same distance they can go into the storage with bigger capacity (NOT bigger free capacity)
4. To facilitate the above, links should automatically upgrade when needed. A popup would show up and ask the player if he wants to do it so it's down to yes/no
5. cycle times need rebalancing. Prolong the 96 hours to 168 hours, 23 hours to 48 hours, 5 hours to 10-12 hours so ppl can set up production, go to work and not need to login during work to fiddle with PI.
6. Hence the amount of deposits and maybe mining amounts also need to be rebalanced.
7. We need bigger storage. It should be upgradeable.
8. Command center needs 2 skills. One to boost PG and the other to boost CPU.
9. Extractors, factories, storage, links all need skills.
10. Extractor skills should be for mining amount, cycle time, CPU and PG use of which the latter two can be applied to all structures.
11. Storage should have skill for cpu, pg, expedited transfter timer and of course storage.
12. Links should have skills for cpu and PG use which would MAYBE decrease added use of both exponentially with the range. So one can have an extractor on one side of the planet and a processor on another.
13. for points 7 - 11 you can later also add modules
14. rockets should take longer to reach orbit to make things realistic
15. Automatic routing would also make life a lot easier for ppl with lots of extractors so they dont need to reroute materials ever 5 hours when a cycle ends.
16. Links should also have an option to downgrade them. Currently it stands that a powerful link you dont need you must destroy and rebuild. In the process you screw up all other links that were depending on that one.
17. those white circles that show cycle time werent working for me properly sometimes. Showed full circle but the cycle just started.
18. automatic rocket launch. if storage is full one sould be able to preset an automatic rocket launch. It would launch all of the most space consuming material it there are two of those go by how much each takes and if that doesnt work go alphabetically. Make it cost 3 or 5 times as much as it normally would and there is a chance someone else will get to the booty first. -------------SIG STARTS HERE------------- Chaining BoBo in south Feyth:
Your Neutron Blaster Cannon II perfectly strikes Dukath [EVOL]<BOB>(Vindicator), wrecking for 741.0 damage. |
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.21 15:17:00 -
[531]
Originally by: vipeer Edited by: vipeer on 21/05/2010 12:53:19 I have played a bit with PI and I have these thoughts
1. Command Center should be replaceable with a better one. You can add some kind of penalty for that like a 24h cooldown or something in which time all production is suspended to even things out
2. Automatic routing. Say Aqueus materials should automatically go into the nearest storage facility. One would still be able to change the route to something else later.
3. Products from factories should also automatically be routed to the nearest storage. If both are the same distance they can go into the storage with bigger capacity (NOT bigger free capacity)
4. To facilitate the above, links should automatically upgrade when needed. A popup would show up and ask the player if he wants to do it so it's down to yes/no
5. cycle times need rebalancing. Prolong the 96 hours to 168 hours, 23 hours to 48 hours, 5 hours to 10-12 hours so ppl can set up production, go to work and not need to login during work to fiddle with PI.
6. Hence the amount of deposits and maybe mining amounts also need to be rebalanced.
7. We need bigger storage. It should be upgradeable.
8. Command center needs 2 skills. One to boost PG and the other to boost CPU.
9. Extractors, factories, storage, links all need skills.
10. Extractor skills should be for mining amount, cycle time, CPU and PG use of which the latter two can be applied to all structures.
11. Storage should have skill for cpu, pg, expedited transfter timer and of course storage.
12. Links should have skills for cpu and PG use which would MAYBE decrease added use of both exponentially with the range. So one can have an extractor on one side of the planet and a processor on another.
13. for points 7 - 11 you can later also add modules (edit: Which should be sold by NPC's so if you wanna go highend you also risk some of your money for if and when Dust 514 storm comes racing in ;)
14. rockets should take longer to reach orbit to make things realistic
15. Automatic routing would also make life a lot easier for ppl with lots of extractors so they dont need to reroute materials ever 5 hours when a cycle ends.
16. Links should also have an option to downgrade them. Currently it stands that a powerful link you dont need you must destroy and rebuild. In the process you screw up all other links that were depending on that one.
17. those white circles that show cycle time werent working for me properly sometimes. Showed full circle but the cycle just started.
18. automatic rocket launch. if storage is full one sould be able to preset an automatic rocket launch. It would launch all of the most space consuming material it there are two of those go by how much each takes and if that doesnt work go alphabetically. Make it cost 3 or 5 times as much as it normally would and there is a chance someone else will get to the booty first.
right on, right on.
By the way, didn't CCP say that rockets would be "uber" cool? How are they "uber" exactly? Plopping stuff out in space.... cool?? Not very uber - not very cool.
I'm getting tired of the vaporware and thin promises.
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Janssen
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Posted - 2010.05.21 18:17:00 -
[532]
In a word: Wow - I'm really impressed with PI. It held my attention the other day for more than 12 hours and still I had trouble turning off the computer. I found the system easy to grasp, with a few helping comments from others. The graphics are great and the icons for the pins quickly become clear once the network goes into production.
It all came crashing down this evening though. I had set my extractors on a 23 hour cycle. I expected to have to resurvey with each extractor. I did not expect to need to re-route all of the extractors. For large installations, this becomes needlessly tedious. Please make extractors remember their routing. If anything keeps me away from PI, it will be this.
Being able to upgrade a CC would be nice but I have lived with the POS system for so long that it seems to make sense to tear it all down to upgrade it. (thanks for having that quick 'Decommission' button on the CC kill everything)
I can see the value in short and long cycle times. Especially using the 5min cycle to seed the lines. Having something longer than 4 days would be appreciated.
Can something be done to improve readability of the PIN detail box? If I am zoomed in on a plasma or lava planet, for example, it can be quite difficult to read the information without zooming out.
Please make the Science and Industry box resizeable to a smaller size. It takes up too much screen space and I find myself always having to minimize and expand it.
Again, having extractors remember their routes is the most important to me.
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Minuki Zedra
Omega Engineering Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.05.21 19:50:00 -
[533]
Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 21/05/2010 19:51:08 I agree with Extractors. Once you rescan, any difference between the last deposit value and the new deposit value should automatically be applied to the route. If you have more than one route from an Extractor, then the change could be applied to the last route in the list.
I also agree with the need for an Upgrade ability of the current CC. This could simply as suggested replace the planetside CC with the improved CC in your ships cargo hold.
Obviously the route should only add up to the maximum load available on the link(s) used.
Other features I would like to see:
1) A check-box option to cause the Extractor to repeat once its current deposit has been finished, at the same rate, would be nice as well. This would reduce needed micro-management.
In fact, you could remove the need for a deposits total duration completely - just choose from a range of Extractor cycle timer rates. Then, you could change the cycle rate at will (perhaps limited with a cool-down timer), receiving any active current cycles amount extracted 'so far' over that cycles lapsed time (rounding down.)
2) An ability to Recall materials at a Processor to a Storage facility - which would give such another function to make them possibly more useful than a Spaceport for storage space - when you wish to change that Processors current Schematic or decommission it.
3) A percentage number displayed for the five Resources on each planet (besides the bars) under the Scan portion of the main PI menu (or have the % number pop up when mouse is over one of the bars.)
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Riotsun
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Posted - 2010.05.21 22:06:00 -
[534]
Edited by: Riotsun on 21/05/2010 22:06:36 Not to sure i agree with people on the whole concept of extractors automatically starting new extraction cycles when they deplete as then everyone would just use the best output cycle and disregard the others. Being able to select a group of extractors and manipulate all of them at once would be nice though.
I also have noticed, and i'm sure others have as well, that all the old routs are remembered by the extractors and begin stacking with new routs. Eventually all the stacking causes the link to need to be upgraded to handle all the 'ghost' flow and the real flow. if you click on the routs of an extractor or a link you'll see all the current routs outgoing or transferring, and all the old ones as well. and all of them are being applied to the total draw on the link they are going through. It's not a complete failure but you do have to go back and delete all the old routs extractor by extractor every day. Way to much clicky clicky. Please if anything else fix that.
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SiliconWolf
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Posted - 2010.05.22 04:26:00 -
[535]
??? A 2.6 GB download again? <sigh> Ok, fine.
People have been asking to upgrade the CC, and I like that idea. But we could instead have two new building types: Planetary Power Core, and Planetary Computer Core. You drop your CC, and then build (and upgrade) these two buildings. Just a thought.
I've noticed that planets, gas planets in particular, have specific spots where the resources gather. It would be nice to have an explanation on how and where resources regenerate. I haven't been able to devote enough time to see what happens to the resources over multiple days and multiple extractions, but it almost looks like you WON'T have to move your extractors...
I didn't get any comments on my idea for Dust 514 and future planetary warfare compatibility. I figured at least one person would tell me they hated it :/ Oh well.
I'm signing the petition on too much clicking, btw.
I'm also signing the petition that CCP address some of the good ideas I see in this thread! And the bad ones too!
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.22 10:51:00 -
[536]
Nice move removing the PI skills, CCP. That'll make testing on SISI that much easier.
Fail, guys, fail. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Kerdrak
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 11:17:00 -
[537]
Upgradable CC should be a must, in fact I don't like the idea of buying separate kinds of CC in market. It will be a pain for the 0.0 inhabitants...
Why not a modular CC that you can fit like a ship, with upgrades for CPU/PG instead? ________________________________________
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 11:59:00 -
[538]
First off I'm really looking forward to PI going live, although not all features are implemented yet. I do, however, feel the need to stress how important population management is. It's a unique chance to add something completely new and different to the world of EVE, please do not sidetrack this!
Second, it should not be possible to build stuff on top of other peoples structures. There should be the same restriction as with your own structures, or else there is no competition for resources! It would be great to be able to wage war over resources in empire/lowsec. Another opportunity which must not be missed! However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.22 18:35:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Kerdrak Upgradable CC should be a must, in fact I don't like the idea of buying separate kinds of CC in market. It will be a pain for the 0.0 inhabitants...
Why not a modular CC that you can fit like a ship, with upgrades for CPU/PG instead?
Now THIS would be cool. Make each building have a loadout similar to what our ships get, with spots for various modules that will help various aspects of production, processing, output, even population management, etc.
It allows us to micromanage at the building level, rather than seeing a bunch of dots with lines. Correction "uber" dots with lines.....
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Tub Chil
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Posted - 2010.05.22 20:02:00 -
[540]
I set up some structures on storm planet. extracting ionic solutions, however in basic processor drop-down menu I cannot find electrolytes. I can find electrolytes on barren planet processor...
is this supposed to be like that? I cannot extract and process on the same planet?
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Seven Europa
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Posted - 2010.05.23 05:26:00 -
[541]
Love the PI system, great job, as already mentioned, two things that would make this much much better:
1: Upgradable CC. Possible solution: When a CC is decommissioned the colony is not abandoned immediately, it stops working and the player has a certain amount of time (24 hours?) to replace the old CC with a new one (This way it is still necessary to buy improved CC's etc.)
2: Making it possible to select multiple extractors and giving the same command to all of them. Possible solution: CTRL-SHIFT click on several extractors, the extractors cluster's UI is exactly the same but it shows average values for the survey, and overall values for routing. All the selected extractors will perform the same installed cycle and will route the materials to the same selected pin.
P.S. : point 2 seems very important to me, as it is not a big deal for a small colony, but it gets really frustrating as the colony gets bigger.
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Kaizer Douken
Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.05.23 08:10:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Kaizer Douken on 23/05/2010 08:11:12 At 1st I though that the Command Center was upgradable, I spent like 5min. searching the upgrade button how to upgrade it. At the end I concluded that i needed to have the next lvl command center in my cargo and the skills for the option to appear. Now by reading this I know there's no such thing which is a surprise. other than that looks great.
Originally by: Imran Tam if your sausage looked anything like that, you should have checked the expiration date.
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Tub Chil
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Posted - 2010.05.23 09:02:00 -
[543]
upgradable CC would be great. I just don't see reason for not doing so and interconnection between other players colonies, can we make it? one guy extracts, another reprocesses, third one launches..
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ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.05.23 15:32:00 -
[544]
i would jsut like to point out that basic command center is compleatly pointless even to try the thing out as the spaceport to bring anything up needs 2 times more CPU than the max CPU useage the center has making one wounder why the thing exists at all.. make it upgradable at least or remove it entirely from the game
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Wezzord
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Posted - 2010.05.23 17:29:00 -
[545]
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK i would jsut like to point out that basic command center is compleatly pointless even to try the thing out as the spaceport to bring anything up needs 2 times more CPU than the max CPU useage the center has making one wounder why the thing exists at all.. make it upgradable at least or remove it entirely from the game
You don't need a spaceport to launch things up, only to send things to a planet. You can launch your stuff from the cc
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.23 21:36:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Wezzord
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK i would jsut like to point out that basic command center is compleatly pointless even to try the thing out as the spaceport to bring anything up needs 2 times more CPU than the max CPU useage the center has making one wounder why the thing exists at all.. make it upgradable at least or remove it entirely from the game
You don't need a spaceport to launch things up, only to send things to a planet. You can launch your stuff from the cc
I think his point wasn't exactly spaceport, but rather how useless basic CC units are - which I agree they are pointless without the ability to upgrade.
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SiliconWolf
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Posted - 2010.05.24 02:14:00 -
[547]
Hello?? CCP?? SOMEONE ANSWER THE THREAD!!!
You need: 1. multi-restart extractors ability. Don't care how you do it, just do it. 2. Fix extractor routes so they do not reset. 3. Powergrid and CPU upgrade without losing entire colony. Don't care if it's CC upgrade or some sort of extra structure you buy/upgrade. 4. Colony-at-a-glance status window.
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Snabbik Shigen
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Posted - 2010.05.24 02:48:00 -
[548]
Looks like we're still going to go into launch with the stupid, make it over-complicated for no good reason at all, decision to make the 4 different extractor durations run on different cycle times.
Which means that instead of being able to sensibly estimate your link capacities in cases where you have a desire to use different extractor durations, you're going to have to get really good at simple math.
We went through almost a month worth of beta testing where the extractor cycles were *always* 15 minutes in duration and only the amounts changed if you picked different durations. This made things nice and straightforward so that you could easily manage your colony links. At the last minute, someone decided to change the cycle times?
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Wezzord
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Posted - 2010.05.24 13:40:00 -
[549]
Originally by: SiliconWolf Edited by: SiliconWolf on 24/05/2010 02:44:55 Hello?? CCP?? SOMEONE ANSWER THE THREAD!!!
You need: 1. multi-restart extractors ability. Don't care how you do it, just do it. 2. Fix extractor routes so they do not reset. 3. Powergrid and CPU upgrade without losing entire colony. Don't care if it's CC upgrade or some sort of extra structure you buy/upgrade.
You can count on my support for those
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Zedia Zhane
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Posted - 2010.05.24 14:58:00 -
[550]
Originally by: Snabbik Shigen Looks like we're still going to go into launch with the stupid, make it over-complicated for no good reason at all, decision to make the 4 different extractor durations run on different cycle times.
I have a hard time believing CCP could *possibly* be this incredibly stupid. If this goes live, then all the planetary production will be run by macros which restart the extractors every half-hour. Macro planet management will become 100x more common than macro ice-mining... which is already rampant.
Instead I choose to believe that CCP is currently working on some resource deposit functionality that is not yet in game. My guess would be they haven't finished the code to actually make resource deposits deplete over time and go away. Until that code is ready, they are leaving the current deposit system in place. At least the current system gives testers a lot of flexibility when it comes to resource and production planning.
Remember that PI has been delayed until June 8th. Which is a good thing, since they're not giving us CC upgrade capability. That way you can train Command Center Upgrades before CCs are available and not have to worry about upgrading. It also means they've got until June 8th to implement actual resource deposits into the game. I advocate patience until we get closer to that date. What we're seeing on SiSi is still 2 weeks away from finished.
On the other hand, I also advocate canceling account subscriptions if they do go live with the current system. Something that ridiculously stupid, which encourages cheating that much, isn't something I'm readily willing to put up with. If they do frack things up that badly, I'll probably sell off all my alt characters, convert the ISK into PLEX for my main, and cut back to just that one account... And stop paying for any more game time.
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Minuki Zedra
Omega Engineering Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.05.24 15:49:00 -
[551]
As others have stated above, Extractor deposits are something I don't feel are currently finished. The different Extractor times and durations do over-complicate things.
My suggestion would be to remove the deposit durations - the 30 minute, 5 hour, 23 hour and 96 hour - and just have four 30 minute cycle durations with increasing amounts of resource gathered, which the player can change at will (perhaps with a cool-down timer), representing how aggressively that resource is being depleted. Or, a type-in box of x resources gathered per cycle out of y maximum that can be gathered per cycle.
Every 30 minute cycle, the amount each Extractor gathers would be deducted from the deposit maximum value(s) on the planets surface, and the Extractor would recalculate what it gathers. The Routing of Resources from Extractors is also automatically adjusted.
Every 30 minutes, the deposit minimum/maximum values across the planets surface recover at whatever rate is deemed appropriate.
The player would need to keep an eye on the amount being extracted to determine whether they should be cutting back on how fast they are gathering that resource unless they run out and need to relocate their extractors.
Perhaps a graph could be called up from each extractor showing the change in resource deposit amount per cycle, over a set length of time (such as over the last 24 hours.)
This would mean a certain level of micro-management would be necessary, so you could adjust the Extractors to the level of Resources you (and those nearby) are gathering, but not being able to log in every evening, day, or week won't mean you are completely shut down unless something changes unexpectedly.
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Zedia Zhane
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Posted - 2010.05.24 16:26:00 -
[552]
What I'd like to see is this:
Each planet has a certain number of deposits. Each deposit has a certain amount of resources. The richer the deposit, the more resources it has, and the faster the base extraction rate is.
Each extractor has a very short 'optimal range' and a much longer 'falloff' for the distance from which it can extract resources from a deposit. Within optimal, it can extract resources at the base rate for the deposit. Once you go into falloff, the rate of extraction drops off from that maximum to zero - just like the hit probability for turrets in their falloff ranges. When you scan for a deposit, it shows you all deposits that the extractor can use and the net extraction rate for each deposit, for that extractor. You just pick one. Cycle time is fixed at 30 minutes. (Having a really short optimal would make the Planetology skills very useful.)
As a resource gets harvested from a deposit, not only does the remaining amount of resources drop, but the base extraction rate also drops. Base extraction rates should range from X to Y (depending on the remaining resources in the deposit). X, the minimum rate, should be a reasonable rate, to give players an incentive to completely exhaust a deposit. At that point, it would despawn, cleaning up the planet for new deposits to form.
Each planet has a maximum cap of the total amount of each resource on it. From time to time, if the actual amount of a particular resource on the planet is sufficiently below the cap, a new deposit will spawn at an appropriate location on the planet. The spawn rate should be fixed, independent of the number of colonies or extractors on a planet. That way a heavily harvested planet can actually be stripped bare of certain resources. People would then have to wait for new deposits to spawn - and when they do, they are likely to be stripped clean very quickly.
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asdfadfadsf
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:54:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Kaizer Douken Edited by: Kaizer Douken on 23/05/2010 08:11:12 At 1st I though that the Command Center was upgradable, I spent like 5min. searching the upgrade button how to upgrade it. At the end I concluded that i needed to have the next lvl command center in my cargo and the skills for the option to appear. Now by reading this I know there's no such thing which is a surprise. other than that looks great.
Yes please make the CC upgradable
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PandaStratton
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Posted - 2010.05.24 20:18:00 -
[554]
is their any way to shut off the halographic image of the structure when you click on it... its good looking and all but it gets in the way...
another idea is to be able to select all extractors or shift click on the extractors you want and make it so i can turn all my extractors on without taking 20 min to turn every individual one on.. sence im mining the same thing...
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Doomed Predator
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.24 20:19:00 -
[555]
Things that would make PI way easier to use: -mouse hover over the scan button shows what's currently being scanned for -mouse hover over extractors show what is being extracted and how long until depletion -mouse hover over processor shows what's being made
And a question;can you have more than 1 CC per planet? The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.25 02:10:00 -
[556]
a thing i didn't think about before, as i done all my test on systems where there is noone ; we can know if a planet is occupied when there is a customs office (so when at least 1 player have a launchpad on it), but we have no way telling HOW MANY people use this planet. if a planet don't have any customs off. then it's really good but... if it has only one player on it it's also good. but if it has 7 players it's not. but we can't see the difference for now. but knowing that will be really important in 2 weeks. so you need to add something like "command center on this planet : XX" on the planet view.
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.05.25 07:11:00 -
[557]
I don't really wanna guess what's gonna be part of Tyrannis. But here is my final wishlist:
1. If you have the resources in storage to build 4 tier 3 products, once routed you still only get 3. I just tested this again today. I anticipated 66 total, 22 hourly cycles. I only got 63 when my processor went "waiting for resources" Houdini stole the other!
2. Resources need to deplete. There should be pros and cons of the various extraction options that provide balance. Extractors cost much more but can be moved. Shorter extraction times increase risk of extractor having a "mishap". Chance of this happening can be tweaked or mathematically calculated for balance. Would love to see someone doing all 5hr cycles and an extractor breaks that everything was routed through
I know it's a little late for wishes, but issue #1 was posted toward the beginning of this thread
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.25 22:09:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Wezzord
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK i would jsut like to point out that basic command center is compleatly pointless even to try the thing out as the spaceport to bring anything up needs 2 times more CPU than the max CPU useage the center has making one wounder why the thing exists at all.. make it upgradable at least or remove it entirely from the game
You don't need a spaceport to launch things up, only to send things to a planet. You can launch your stuff from the cc
I think his point wasn't exactly spaceport, but rather how useless basic CC units are - which I agree they are pointless without the ability to upgrade.
They aren't useless any more than Civilian guns are useless, they just have very limited use. They are dirt cheap and require no skills to use, so if you are mildly curious about PI they are a low-effort, nearly free way to try out the interface and see if you hate it or not. If you hate it, at least you didn't waste so much as a single skill point on it.
I can also imagine them adding PI Career Agents, who might give out a Basic CC and the Remote Sensing skillbook as part of the tutorial. ("Remote" is a misnomer, if you don't have that skill you can't scan at all, even if you are in orbit and have already dropped a CC. If you don't have that skill you have to drop your extractors completely blind.) This would let newbies try it out for free, the same way other Career Agents give them ships and equipment to let them try out combat, mining, production and exploration for free. A basic CC is less worthless than, say, the Civilian Salvager they give you.
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Gil Warden
Gallente Priory of Empire Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2010.05.26 00:49:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Wezzord
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK i would jsut like to point out that basic command center is compleatly pointless even to try the thing out as the spaceport to bring anything up needs 2 times more CPU than the max CPU useage the center has making one wounder why the thing exists at all.. make it upgradable at least or remove it entirely from the game
You don't need a spaceport to launch things up, only to send things to a planet. You can launch your stuff from the cc
I think his point wasn't exactly spaceport, but rather how useless basic CC units are - which I agree they are pointless without the ability to upgrade.
It takes only a few hours to get that skill to 3, then you can have fun.
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SiliconWolf
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:55:00 -
[560]
Edited by: SiliconWolf on 26/05/2010 01:55:41 Ok, patch notes says that there is a CC upgrade skill. So CCP has been listening to us...they just didn't want to TALK to us. Fine, whatever.
Also added are Planetology and Advanced Planetology... Dunno if this means that resources will move, and/or extractors move, and/or the gave up and turned this into a hybrid of asteroid and moon mining. My guess is that they went with door #3.
Would a dev PLEASE get back to us and tell us what has been locked down and what we can still give feedback on???
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Minuki Zedra
Omega Engineering Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:14:00 -
[561]
Originally by: SiliconWolf Ok, patch notes says that there is a CC upgrade skill. So CCP has been listening to us...they just didn't want to TALK to us. Fine, whatever.
Also added are Planetology and Advanced Planetology... Dunno if this means that resources will move, and/or extractors move, and/or the gave up and turned this into a hybrid of asteroid and moon mining. My guess is that they went with door #3.
Would a dev PLEASE get back to us and tell us what has been locked down and what we can still give feedback on???
Command Center Upgrades, Planetology and Advanced Planetology are not recent additions... they have been available skills on Test for quite some time.
Whether you can upgrade already placed Command Centers on planets without demolishing your entire previous network first... that is the question.
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Xoair
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:36:00 -
[562]
planetology and adv planetology have been on the test server a long time. Patch notes say they add more bands to the resource density map. So you can get better accuracy on where the dense deposits are really.
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Cadde
Gallente 221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.27 02:48:00 -
[563]
There seems to be two things that people are commonly mistaken about as of late...
Cycle times that complicates things and makes PI a macro only activity.
First and foremost, what makes PI less macro friendly by making all cycle times 15 minutes long? Even at 15 minute cycles you are going to have macros running for people who only care about making isk rather than playing the game. A macro doesn't care about cycle times, they could be 10 second or 24 hour cycle times. Macros would work either way.
The real benefit of having shorter cycle times is that those who want resources NOWÖ can get them faster (5 minutes i assume?) and get a production going. In cases where you need a higher rate of production shorter cycle times are going to be beneficial, it also includes more work to maintain the production line and that is where a macro would benefit but that doesn't detract from the fact you run the cycle time that you can afford to run timewise. Mining asteroids is just as bad as you have to make sure all your lasers are munching the rocks and your cargohold has enough room for the next cycle. When rocks pop you have to target new rocks and you might need to fight off belt rats and in 0.0 you need to keep an eagle eye on local. Macros shine just as much in this field as they would in PI.
The only real danger here is PI can't be monitored by us players to determine if the player is using a macro so we can whack him because he's AFK.
Are deposits gonna run dry?
The first iteration of PI i tested on SISI had resources running out. In fact, they ran out after a single cycle at any rate! That's how little resource there was on the highsec planet i initially tested. Then came a change to resources that gave us what seemed an endless supply of resource, but they are depleting... Currently it seems that the best deposits can give you a few weeks of hardcore PI stripmining and in my opinion that's a bit much. Maybe from a profitability perspective planets need to have these huge deposits but if that is the case they might wanna increase the yield from extractors so these deposits dry out faster. It feels rather pointless to have a good hotspot that will last you for several weeks of gameplay and makes PI even more boring and macro friendly.
So yes, the deposits are affected already but you barely notice it because they are so huge. The only thing that needs changing is so that even the best of all deposits in the known eve universe will run dry after some 4-5 days if you put EVERYTHING you can on it extractor wise and run the shortest cycles.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Zedia Zhane
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Posted - 2010.05.27 06:28:00 -
[564]
VERY SIMPLE QUESTION:
There is a column on the extractor interface that is labeled "Resource Depletes In". What do the times listed in that column represent? Do they have anything to do with the rate at which resources actually deplete?
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CptVugla
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:09:00 -
[565]
I was wondering... when command centers will be available on market?
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HeadWar
Gratuitous Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:01:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Zedia Zhane VERY SIMPLE QUESTION:
There is a column on the extractor interface that is labeled "Resource Depletes In". What do the times listed in that column represent? Do they have anything to do with the rate at which resources actually deplete?
That is the time until the extractor stops working, and you need to do a new survey.
I guess you could say that they have some connection to the depletion rate, since a lower time there generally means a faster extraction rate, but as far as I know we have no details on exactly how this depletion works. --- Не поговорите русского. F1, F2, F3... |
Rell Mayer
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:09:00 -
[567]
Please make white ice planets darker.
It's such a pain to use PI on this type of planet. Can't tell if stuff is linked or not at first glance.
Trying to work on top of a darkened heat map doesn't really help at all.
-R
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Khaymann Draven
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:19:00 -
[568]
does anyone know if there is a planet respwn and if so how often
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Oculi Magni
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:07:00 -
[569]
What about PI in w-space ? Will there be orbiting planetary customs office's ? Or how will we be able to import stuff onto planets.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:56:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Oculi Magni What about PI in w-space ? Will there be orbiting planetary customs office's ? Or how will we be able to import stuff onto planets.
Customs offices appear as soon as anyone builds a spaceport.
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.30 14:09:00 -
[571]
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 30/05/2010 14:09:26 seems the clickfest is really gone this time ; when i come back to sisi yesterday, and reset mes extractors my links were saved, ans i had not to redo all of them, cool :)
well, how about command center upgrades now guys ?
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HeadWar
Gratuitous Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.31 06:17:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Anela Cistine
Originally by: Oculi Magni What about PI in w-space ? Will there be orbiting planetary customs office's ? Or how will we be able to import stuff onto planets.
Customs offices appear as soon as anyone builds a spaceport.
Poor sods. "I'm off to work honey, I'll be back if I'm able to scan up the exit wormhole." --- Не поговорите русского. F1, F2, F3... |
Janssen
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Posted - 2010.05.31 12:29:00 -
[573]
Woohoo! No more click-fest with extractors and re-routing!
Two double-clicks per extractor now - that is much better.
Thanks :-D
(oh damn! that means I'm going to lose my RL for sure)
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Kayleigh Jamieson
Gallente S P H E R E Nox Draconum
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Posted - 2010.05.31 20:08:00 -
[574]
Originally by: HeadWar Poor sods. "I'm off to work honey, I'll be back if I'm able to scan up the exit wormhole."
Well, there *are* capsuleers who live in w-space, and by extension so do their crews and employees ;)
Kay.
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Fenix D
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Posted - 2010.06.01 09:26:00 -
[575]
Edited by: Fenix D on 01/06/2010 09:27:14 something i would really appreciate would be a 8 houre depletion cycle. Restarting your extractors every 5 hours is realy RL unfriendly for ppl whoes work 8 hour peer day.
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Dragossin
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Posted - 2010.06.01 11:05:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Fenix D Edited by: Fenix D on 01/06/2010 09:27:14 something i would really appreciate would be a 8 houre depletion cycle. Restarting your extractors every 5 hours is realy RL unfriendly for ppl whoes work 8 hour peer day.
i would prefer 2 and maybe 11 hours. Then we would have
0,5 - To get the production going, online surveying (high priority) etc. 2 - Downtime, online (mid priority) 5 - online (low priority) 11 - Work 23 - Useful for people that play each day around the same time and don't want to have to log just to restart their extractors 95 (? can't remember) - [short] vacation/weekend
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Minuki Zedra
Omega Engineering Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.06.01 20:16:00 -
[577]
How about a slider bar instead for extraction times, so you can choose exactly how many hours you want to set them up for, from 30 minutes to 96 hours.
I'm sure a mathematical formula could be created to define the cycle times and extraction amount depending on the extractors duration.
Being able to cancel an extractor's current cycle to resurvey and pick a new duration would also be nice, though I'm not sure if the actual resource levels around the extractors are depleted every cycle.
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:47:00 -
[578]
I'm wondering if there is a reason why you must be in system to move items from spaceport to customs office.
moving items around for the various tier 2, tier 3, and tier 4 productions is already complicated enough to require a production chart. I personally don't see a need to complicate it further by requiring you move from system to system just to move items to the customs office if your network is spread to multiple systems.
Just wondering if there is a good reason for this, or just an improvement overlooked?
Also, please see if there is a way to produce just 1 cycle of something.
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Jalif
Minmatar Snuff Box
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:52:00 -
[579]
I found a little problem when I was checking the other installations on the same planet. When I found the "oppenent" I could right click on him to start conversation, but I couldn't find any option to "show info"
PVP-Videos: Jalification |
Meladas
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Posted - 2010.06.02 00:29:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Minuki Zedra How about a slider bar instead for extraction times, so you can choose exactly how many hours you want to set them up for, from 30 minutes to 96 hours.
I'm sure a mathematical formula could be created to define the cycle times and extraction amount depending on the extractors duration.
Being able to cancel an extractor's current cycle to resurvey and pick a new duration would also be nice, though I'm not sure if the actual resource levels around the extractors are depleted every cycle.
/like!
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Fyrr Deerdan
Caldari Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.02 03:33:00 -
[581]
There's an issue where planting a command center on a planet won't allow you to build any other structure until you've exited planetary mode and then back in again.
I guess this has already been reported a thousand times, but I'm still gonna fill a bugreport... Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Applebabe |
menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.06.02 06:05:00 -
[582]
has anyone checked to see if the accounting skill reduces planetary import/export taxes? Anyone think it should?
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Marco Corvino
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Posted - 2010.06.02 06:43:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Marco Corvino on 02/06/2010 06:46:53
Don't know if it has already been said here:
A very serious Problem is the lack of interaction between characters, corps and alliances!
I think you (CCP) know how the situation in 0.0 is. Almost everything depends on reputation! There are many systems claimed by one Alliance and managed by another (maybe a sub-)Alliance. We need the possibility to use PI as such a sub-Alliance even if the system is claimed by another Alliance (through reputation)!!!
This is vital for much of our industry-branch Many of us are completely not able to do PI if this won't be changed!
Hope you have this in mind - I heared it is now strictly based to sovereignty.
Another aspect would be the ability to interact with other characters. I planned to PI with a mate, maybe there are plans for at least contracting at the planetary customs office? That yould make many things much better!
Thanks for taking a look at this CCP!!
MC
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:07:00 -
[584]
Can someone help me with tax calculations?
The space port says 1 isk import fee, 2 isk export fee. Isk on what? Amount of items? Amount of m3? Description is bad.
I exported 1200 oxygen (456 m3) and had to pay 912 isk. That makes 2 isk per m3 (as the spaceport says).
I exported 15 supertensile plastics (22.5 m3) and had to pay 135 isk. That makes 6 isk per m3 (and not 2 as the spaceport says). Import taxes are half of that, 67.5 isk in total or 3 isk per m3.
Is the 2 isk export tax only valid for the P1 items and P2, P3, P4 are more expensive? Where can I find info about that or do I just misunderstand everything there? |
menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:14:00 -
[585]
I'm not sure exactly how the taxes work but exporting 22 nano factories (2200m3) costs 1.1 million isk. So it gets more expensive the higher tier the item.
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electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.06.03 00:31:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Seven Europa
2: Making it possible to select multiple extractors and giving the same command to all of them. Possible solution: CTRL-SHIFT click on several extractors, the extractors cluster's UI is exactly the same but it shows average values for the survey, and overall values for routing. All the selected extractors will perform the same installed cycle and will route the materials to the same selected pin.
Was just about to suggest this after trying P.I. for the first time today. I was just thinking the shift key however. This option is highly recommended (by me!) to make P.I. less of a chore and more enjoyable. ― Vexo M > He turned the drives up to 11 |
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:05:00 -
[587]
Usability issues-
-when you zoom out pretty far on a planet, the planet modules can reduce to the size of something like a pixel. making some sort of minimum size for icons would help with this.
-some easy way to find all the extractors, processors, whatever, that aren't doing anything at the moment. since planetary interaction will amount to tending your planet every day or so, that will save a lot of wasted time if you can go straight to the stuff that needs the tending.
-when you mouse over a link, instead of showing the percent load in the very center of the length of the link, make it show in a position relative to the mouse- so you don't have to do extra clicking or zooming to see the load status of a link.
MAZZILLIU FOR CSM 2010 CHECK OUT MY CAMPAIGN VIDEO |
Durente Galaica
Amarr Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2010.06.06 07:26:00 -
[588]
Launch pads need to be bumped up to 20k storage and storage facilities need to be bumped up to 10k, right now you can only produce 2 days worth of products, and I can only hold 1 day worth of raw materials (harvested from a low sec planet, I feel the null sec guys pain already). Seems like it should be 4 (to match the 95 hour extraction times)
Also, the 20 hour cool down on expedited transfer is a joke, would be willing to keep current storage sizes in place of removing that cool down.
Right now can only hold 15k of stuff (spaceport + free transfer to/from a storage), which equates to 2 days on the top production, or 1 day of storage of harvesting mats.
Doubling the number of spaceports and storage facilities prohibitively disables the production capabilities of a planet for no other purpose than a measly 2 day convenience factor. LetÆs face it, no one is going to want to jump clone every other day to babysit these planets after 2 months of this. Nor do I want to go and æfeedÆ it every other day.
And before anyone cries about this suggestion, you better have been in game for 6 years like I have and know first hand how it feels to do a tedious task, on a 2-day schedule for YEARS. Week and month long activities should be the defacto standard for these chore based activities. Yes setting up a planet is exciting and fun, but after that point all youÆre doing is maintaining it, and it rather quickly becomes a chore. We have 95 hour extraction times, let's have the ability to hold 95 hours worth of materials too.
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Durente Galaica
Amarr Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2010.06.06 07:58:00 -
[589]
Originally by: menacemyth has anyone checked to see if the accounting skill reduces planetary import/export taxes? Anyone think it should?
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Durente Galaica
Amarr Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2010.06.06 09:10:00 -
[590]
Originally by: menacemyth has anyone checked to see if the accounting skill reduces planetary import/export taxes? Anyone think it should?
It doesn't I have perfect trade skills and have the same taxes that everyone else is reporting (Assuming these other folk don't). I personally would love that if it did, could save a heck of a lot on every step up the production ladder.
The current escalation on the taxation rate now definitely discourages applying manufacturing on even the most basic raw materials. This I can only explain as CCP's fetish with getting everyone out into Null sec.
An even tax per m3 transported to/from a planet would be so much better. First it would reward players who apply the (currently) sub-optimal strategy of applying manufacturing and resource gathering on a planet.
After many, many failed attempts on the test server to create a system where I can produce from multiple resources at the same output and route excess materials for export, and route the intended product for export in an optimal solution producing beyond the basic manufactured goods failed. It always worked out better mathematically to simply decommission the factories and add additional extractors.
Second, itÆs definitely anti pure capitalist (hasnÆt Freedman taught us anything people!) to have an escalating taxation system in the first place.
CCP is (ab)using the current taxation system to reward players in low/null sec. But we already know that, In the longest term planets donÆt even need hyper variations in resource quantities. Currently, there are 10-50 people in any given system in high sec, most will want to colonize near to home. The depletion of resources on high sec planets is going to happen regardless of the distribution models that exist. Just look at ME research slots in High sec.
Ah well, this rant is buried on page 20 of a thread select few will ever read.
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.06.06 18:41:00 -
[591]
Edited by: menacemyth on 06/06/2010 18:43:45
Originally by: Durente Galaica
Originally by: menacemyth has anyone checked to see if the accounting skill reduces planetary import/export taxes? Anyone think it should?
It doesn't I have perfect trade skills and have the same taxes that everyone else is reporting (Assuming these other folk don't). I personally would love that if it did, could save a heck of a lot on every step up the production ladder.
The current escalation on the taxation rate now definitely discourages applying manufacturing on even the most basic raw materials. This I can only explain as CCP's fetish with getting everyone out into Null sec.
An even tax per m3 transported to/from a planet would be so much better. First it would reward players who apply the (currently) sub-optimal strategy of applying manufacturing and resource gathering on a planet.
After many, many failed attempts on the test server to create a system where I can produce from multiple resources at the same output and route excess materials for export, and route the intended product for export in an optimal solution producing beyond the basic manufactured goods failed. It always worked out better mathematically to simply decommission the factories and add additional extractors.
I honestly don't think this will be a problem.
On planets with excellent resources, it is impossible to extract large quantities and produce up to tier 4, as that chews up powergrid that can be used for extractors/simple processors. In hisec, however, planet infastructures could be high-tech processor heavy, and could create tier 3 and 4 in far greater abundance than if you try to do both.
If capsuleers in hisec buy up the tier 1 and 2 items properly. It will be more profitable for players in null sec to sell them and not build tier 3 and 4 items. Then players in hisec produce the tier 3 and 4 items and the market will stabilize. M.
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.06.06 18:41:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Durente Galaica
Originally by: menacemyth has anyone checked to see if the accounting skill reduces planetary import/export taxes? Anyone think it should?
It doesn't I have perfect trade skills and have the same taxes that everyone else is reporting (Assuming these other folk don't). I personally would love that if it did, could save a heck of a lot on every step up the production ladder.
The current escalation on the taxation rate now definitely discourages applying manufacturing on even the most basic raw materials. This I can only explain as CCP's fetish with getting everyone out into Null sec.
An even tax per m3 transported to/from a planet would be so much better. First it would reward players who apply the (currently) sub-optimal strategy of applying manufacturing and resource gathering on a planet.
After many, many failed attempts on the test server to create a system where I can produce from multiple resources at the same output and route excess materials for export, and route the intended product for export in an optimal solution producing beyond the basic manufactured goods failed. It always worked out better mathematically to simply decommission the factories and add additional extractors.
Second, itÆs definitely anti pure capitalist (hasnÆt Freedman taught us anything people!) to have an escalating taxation system in the first place.
CCP is (ab)using the current taxation system to reward players in low/null sec. But we already know that, In the longest term planets donÆt even need hyper variations in resource quantities. Currently, there are 10-50 people in any given system in high sec, most will want to colonize near to home. The depletion of resources on high sec planets is going to happen regardless of the distribution models that exist. Just look at ME research slots in High sec.
Ah well, this rant is buried on page 20 of a thread select few will ever read.
did i miss something... you can manufacture planet goods off planet?
MAZZILLIU FOR CSM 2010 CHECK OUT MY CAMPAIGN VIDEO |
Durente Galaica
Amarr Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2010.06.06 20:16:00 -
[593]
Originally by: menacemyth I honestly don't think this will be a problem
A high sec player's extract can pull 400-500 raw materials a half hour, a low/null sec player can pull 1500+ a half hour.
A high sec basic factory can convert 3000 raw mats a half hour, a low/null sec basic factory can convert 3000 raw mats an hour. Same with every other factory type.
The incentive is to just build extractors and export raw materials. It is possible to build a planet that produces almost 30,000 m3 of raw materials a day in null sec. An even tax on m3 shipped off the planet, would encourage at least basic manufacturing in low/null sec. Why waste PG/CPU on a basic factory when I have a 4-1 advantage over high sec on raw harvesting with every extractor I place? The 0.0 veldspar miners will obviously build factories, but everyone else will harvest the raws and sell to the second class citizens in empire.
An even tax on m3 would force low/null sec players to 'compress' their raw materials prior to export. But looking back in the thread, the idiots suggested this get changed only further widens the gap between low/null and empire.
It is a problem.
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.06.07 19:08:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Durente Galaica
Originally by: menacemyth I honestly don't think this will be a problem
A high sec player's extract can pull 400-500 raw materials a half hour, a low/null sec player can pull 1500+ a half hour.
A high sec basic factory can convert 3000 raw mats a half hour, a low/null sec basic factory can convert 3000 raw mats an hour. Same with every other factory type.
The incentive is to just build extractors and export raw materials. It is possible to build a planet that produces almost 30,000 m3 of raw materials a day in null sec. An even tax on m3 shipped off the planet, would encourage at least basic manufacturing in low/null sec. Why waste PG/CPU on a basic factory when I have a 4-1 advantage over high sec on raw harvesting with every extractor I place? The 0.0 veldspar miners will obviously build factories, but everyone else will harvest the raws and sell to the second class citizens in empire.
An even tax on m3 would force low/null sec players to 'compress' their raw materials prior to export. But looking back in the thread, the idiots suggested this get changed only further widens the gap between low/null and empire.
It is a problem.
So you think extracting is what it's all about? Obviously you didn't read my post. If your extraction quantities are high, and the price is right to sell the tier 2 and 3 stuff outright, nullsec pilots will sell them to save from dropping all the advanced and high-tech processors.
In hisec, pilots can buy the tier 2 and 3 stuff and because they don't need extractors, produce large quantities of tier 4 and end-items and make money on the markup. Or they can place a few extractors to cut costs to make a higher profit percentage. Keep in mind, there are no travel expenses in hisec, so it will be ideal to build a large amount of end-items or tier4 items there.
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bazak
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:23:00 -
[595]
ok i got a quick question me and a friend got into a bit of an argument he believes that if you have a colony in 0.0 in a system ur alliance has Sov in and they loose it you loose your colony question is, is this true?
my reasons for not believing its true: you don't loose your colony's if u put them in an unclaimed system and someone takes Sov, so why would you loose them if someone takes sov from a system your alliance controlls?
would be really great if ccp would comment on this but i would settle for player opinions
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1Skywar
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Posted - 2010.06.11 08:57:00 -
[596]
Edited by: 1Skywar on 11/06/2010 09:00:17 Command Centers are too similar but the best of them all is Elite and most common skillwise is Advanced. Very few will be using Basic, Limited and Standard.
--------Price CPU Grid Basic 100k 15k 15k (cheap)-10% export and import taxes Limited 2mil 15k 19k (high grid, low skill req) Standard 4mil 20k 15k (high cpu, low skill req) Improved 1mil 18k 20k (cheap, high grid) 10% waste factor with extractors Advanced 7mil 20k 23k (highest grid for mining) Elite 20mil 25k 20k (expensive, highest cpu for factories)
Elite could be optimal for P4 production planets Advanced normal mining planet Improved cheap for stripmining hotspot and moving on like a locust
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2010.06.14 13:53:00 -
[597]
There needs to be some way to reactivate all inactive extractors with one global (multiple planets at once) "reactivate all extractors using same cycle as last time" feature. The endless clicking gets old faster than I thought it would. This feature should be available on a per planet basis as well as on an "all planets" basis.
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente Information Operations
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Posted - 2010.06.14 16:43:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Ana Vyr There needs to be some way to reactivate all inactive extractors with one global (multiple planets at once) "reactivate all extractors using same cycle as last time" feature. The endless clicking gets old faster than I thought it would. This feature should be available on a per planet basis as well as on an "all planets" basis.
this this this this this this this this this
I really like PI but this is the worst thing ever, fix it and me luv u long tiem
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Orephia
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Posted - 2010.06.14 19:10:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Janssen Woohoo! No more click-fest with extractors and re-routing! Two double-clicks per extractor now - that is much better.
Back then, when that happened on Sisi, I felt the same way...the intense amount of clicking to reset & reroute all extractors each time the deposits exhausted had simply been sooooo way too much that this actually seemed better. But now, in practice on TQ...
Originally by: Ana Vyr There needs to be some way to reactivate all inactive extractors with one global (multiple planets at once) "reactivate all extractors using same cycle as last time" feature. The endless clicking gets old faster than I thought it would. This feature should be available on a per planet basis as well as on an "all planets" basis.
Five planets per character, 20 extractors per planet to reset each & every morning, two double-clicks per extractor, three characters working PI in order to fuel the POS & have a small amount of other higher tier product resources to process & play with...it's an hour or more of continual double clicking, without letup. Not. fun. at. all.
The forearm tendon to the index finger grows more apprehensive by the day. This is a case study in the making for spontaneous repetitive motion syndrome generation. It has to change or regardless of other issues there won't be enough players without their arms in slings to keep the market supplied once the npc orders are nuked.
Seriously. Please give the PCC some real & meaningful command functions. Without some alternative, the urge to macro this comes not to give any advantage over other players, but from simple health preservation.
Feedback to CCP Oneiromancer, are you reading...over? |
Dr Bernard
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Posted - 2010.06.15 20:30:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Ana Vyr There needs to be some way to reactivate all inactive extractors with one global (multiple planets at once) "reactivate all extractors using same cycle as last time" feature. The endless clicking gets old faster than I thought it would. This feature should be available on a per planet basis as well as on an "all planets" basis.
this
Failing this - how about a consolidated list of all extractors shown from the clicking command center. Table shows 1 extractor per row, with the 4 options corresponding to each cycle time along the row. Then some selection mechanic (slider?) at the end of each row. A global setting for all rows/extractors. A global survey option too ?
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Gabi Angel
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Posted - 2010.06.16 13:29:00 -
[601]
Hi,
I discovery how annoying is survey and select the cycle for each extractor...
Ok, i have about 60 extractor, and select each one is not a funny task. This is turning the micro management of my colony a nightmare.
I would suggest to allow select multiply extractor and survey and cycle then all, regardless the number of unit on each depot. After all, you already have and idea of how many units you should expect on each location.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.06.16 22:54:00 -
[602]
Still would be nice to have a visual indicator when the colony is "busy" after "submit"ting a change. :)
You cannot see the extraction rates of an extractor before you submit the build, because you can't survey if it's not submitted. This takes away *a lot* of the initial idea that if you plan ahead properly you'll have a bargainm, imho. This way it's just bruteforce or trial and error :sadface:
I'd like to see it changed or a cheaper way to "survey" for extration rates at a much lower cost than to build an extractor and "see how it works out", then decomission it, repeat, like 1/8th the cost. :happyface:
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.06.17 19:47:00 -
[603]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 17/06/2010 19:53:30 Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 17/06/2010 19:51:45 Resource distribution through routes
The resource distribution from storages through routes keeps bugging me.
For example, if you have 6 extractors at about 12728u/30min and 4 processors for that, 728 excess units, you route all extractors to the storage, then route from the storage to the processors. Saving the excess for when the extractors extracting plans end.
The storage seems to send resources in a random order. Three out of four processors being fed with 3000u to start working, two out of these three get their storage filled up to 100% for the next cycle. The last of these three also gets "some" resources. The fourth don't even gets enough to start a production cycle.
It is not distributed in the order you make the links, it does not give every processor 3000u as I think it should. I have processors STORAGE -> 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4. The route to number 4 was created first, then 3, then 2, the route to number 1 was created last.
In this example, after two cycles from the extractors, 1 and 4 got 6000 units of resources (producing and 3000u in queue), 2 got 5459 units (producing and 2459 in queue) and 3 got only 1997 units (NOT producing at all, only 1997 in the queue).
Yes, the amount of resources will finally make the colony work at 100% efficiency, but it will take its very sweet time, every time the excess resources cannot feed the processors after the extractor cycles end and wait for you to restart them (one by one, I might add :P)
//Edit: I'd like to add that I know you can route specific amounts from the extractors to the processors directly, but after the 23 hours job ends, the next one's output varies. Leaving you with the job to re-create all your routes. There's "some microing", there's "lots of microing" and then there is the "level of complete annoyance of microing" and I think this would be the final level of microing. ;D
Planet scaling
And today I figured out how planets are scaled, that is, the size of planets. On bigger planets the minimum distance between links is greatly increased, resulting in a much higher cost for the links (as in tf/MW). I really really hope the resource amounts account for that but it doesn't seem like it was.
This places you in a huge disadvantage when choosing to build on larger planets (show info, radius in kilometres). For example, the shortest link on a gas giant with a radius of 34,120km is roughly 409km, costing 97tf and 72MW. Now on a temperate planet with a radius of 6,750km, the shortest link possible seems to be 82km, costing only 32tf and 23MW.
By strategically placing your pins somewhere between two resource hotspots, you can create somewhat long links on small planets that are completely feasible and somewhat reasonable due to this scaling. On a larger planet though, those easily take up more than 1000MW and greatly limit you in your micro and macro managements.
Concluding, I find this type of scaling lacking balance in planetary interaction.
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Susannah Johnson
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Posted - 2010.06.18 10:06:00 -
[604]
hi
ok i still cant find it and i've got 5 planets that have the "star" design as far as the extractors are concerned. i've been told this is inefficient, but no one willtell me hoe to link/route the etractors through each other like i've seen other people do on other planets
some help please
thanks
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Krixal
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Posted - 2010.06.19 23:54:00 -
[605]
Its just a case of linking the extractors together, then, when you route, click the final destination, and it will automatically create a transiting route through any linked extractors. War is not about dying for your faction, its about making the enemy die for theirs. |
Leere
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.06.20 23:48:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 17/06/2010 19:53:30 Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 17/06/2010 19:51:45 Resource distribution through routes
The resource distribution from storages through routes keeps bugging me.
For example, if you have 6 extractors at about 12728u/30min and 4 processors for that, 728 excess units, you route all extractors to the storage, then route from the storage to the processors. Saving the excess for when the extractors extracting plans end.
The storage seems to send resources in a random order. Three out of four processors being fed with 3000u to start working, two out of these three get their storage filled up to 100% for the next cycle. The last of these three also gets "some" resources. The fourth don't even gets enough to start a production cycle.
It is not distributed in the order you make the links, it does not give every processor 3000u as I think it should. I have processors STORAGE -> 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4. The route to number 4 was created first, then 3, then 2, the route to number 1 was created last.
In this example, after two cycles from the extractors, 1 and 4 got 6000 units of resources (producing and 3000u in queue), 2 got 5459 units (producing and 2459 in queue) and 3 got only 1997 units (NOT producing at all, only 1997 in the queue).
came here to post this.
It's kind of silly that when there's 1 processor already in the midst of a cycle and one waiting for R0 to start it's cycle, it seems the one already processing gets filled up for it's next cycle before the processor that's waiting for Mins just sits there.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2010.06.21 17:16:00 -
[607]
put a few colonies on tq and, as alredy said by other posters, to select all extractors one by one and to scan/select extractor rate for each of them is a big hassle.
it will be better to be able to select more extractors at once, be it with a button "select all extractor" with a reticle we draw with our mouse or with something like shift+left click
then you can present us with a single scan result calculated by the sum of the selected extractors and we can chose our extract rate.
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Boo mkII
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Posted - 2010.06.26 14:31:00 -
[608]
Some problems a couple of industrial friends and I have pointed out while testing PI :
The number of factories you need to process all extracted materials depend both on the number of extractors and their extraction speed. Therefore, you can only achieve an optimised build for a given deposit depletion time.
What I try to say is that you can't set up a colony that can handle both short and long depletion times. Short depletion cycles require more factories while long cycles require more extractors, so you have to choose one and stick to it.
And the "best" extraction rate requires 30 min depletion cycles... so you have to launch 60 extractors every 30 mins : 1 every 30 sec ! :x
by the way... even for 36h depletion cycles, surveying and starting 60 extractors is really a pain. Is there no way to make this more... fun ? :o
See you and Extract safe :)
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.28 07:31:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Boo mkII by the way... even for 36h depletion cycles, surveying and starting 60 extractors is really a pain.
Mining (ice) belts is a pain and boring.
Running missions to grind for isk is a pain and boring.
Doing logistics is a pain in the ***.
Etc.
So what? That is the whole point! If you do it that much that it isn't fun any more, then reduce your amount of operation. Or do you expect to have a huge income without any efforts?
Yes, some of the PI stuff is boring and painful. But that goes with ANY activity in Eve when you overdo it in excess.
But what could be done for the single-click extraction? Well, as I mentioned at several other places quite a while ago already, some mini-game like elements could be introduced (similiar to exploration) where we need to find the best spots. The more time invested there to hunt down the good spots, the better the extracts - and if you just do it only the fly you will also get something but it won't be that much. |
Shepard Book
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.05 13:52:00 -
[610]
Please allow us to group extractors together to help prevent Carpal tunnel.
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Samuel Industrius
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Posted - 2010.07.07 13:51:00 -
[611]
Could *we* get some feedback from CCP as to what is planed for PI in the future?
Even a "Like factional warfare, what you have, is what you have, enjoy" would be better than the silence.
A "PI will not be addressed until FanFest" would also be a good answer.
Personally, I'd like to know what was the advantage of Level 5 for Planetology. Let alone Advanced Planetology at any level. It looks to me like having Planetology 4 gets you the same extraction rates and locations that Advanced Planetology 5 does (while saving you about 2-3 weeks of training time).
Lastly, like everyone else, please implement the following two items ASAP.
1) Put a big flashing X over any extractor or factory that is not routed.
2) Allow for multiple selection, scans, and starts on extractors
And can you get #1 into an emergency patch yesterday?
Thanks
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:19:00 -
[612]
ANy chance we could get some feedback which would give us insight to the development and testing process? For example, what sugesstions are used or discarded. Why are some things that everyone hates (like the excessive clicking) not used? Is it a technical reason, a politicial decision, a gameplay design?
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:24:00 -
[613]
I started to think that absence of visual feedback to extractor state is a bug. Filing a bug report. It's no fun and time-consuming to find one missing extractor in the middle of extraction field... -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Otin Bison
Gallente Bison Industrial Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:31:00 -
[614]
Multiple selection and scanning with extractors is the ONE big item on my list. When running 3 toons all with 4 or 5 planets, the shere number of mouse clicks and TIME away from actually playing Eve is definately NOT fun. ------- Nothing especially witty to say at this time. |
Sushi Wasabi
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Posted - 2010.07.15 02:36:00 -
[615]
This could be a bit odd, but I would like (maybe I could not find it) a way to trash material in storage or launch pad. Sometimes I have to free up space quickly without having to export useless P0
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Thrash Uma
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Posted - 2010.08.03 01:57:00 -
[616]
My #1 issue would be feedback from Devs as to what is happening with the supposed "continuous development" of PI after the initial deployment. Is it too much to ask for a Dev Blog on this? It is OK for devs to make mistakes and tell us that no new changes will be coming to PI until after the second incarnation of Incarna launches, but many of us are dying to know when PI will be getting some attention.
My next issue (which I have not hear anyone mention) is a longer run time on extractions. How about having an extraction time of 1 to 2 weeks instead of just several days?
Overall I am liking PI, and would even love to see the end products expanded to include more items perhaps made with other technology (ie Tech II or Meta 3 or 4 ship modules). I think as a production chain system, it allows players to get deep into manufacture quicker and much more cheaply than Tech II or Tech III item construction.
Oh, I think it might be interesting to consider trade hubs on planets or perhaps in the Customs offices that allows players to trade PI products. It would allow players to maybe make more items than they currently can.
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Kblackjack54
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Posted - 2010.08.03 12:56:00 -
[617]
Edited by: Kblackjack54 on 03/08/2010 13:01:24 Odds and ends that need tidying up in PI.
5/6 planets worth of click festing just to keep your researched and economically built planet colony running I found took around eight to nine minutes of my time, not so bad really but please oh please which of those warped in the head devs came up with those really annoying revolving sprites, they do nothing for the operation of the colony and there function, if there is one, has been well covered by the highlight/expansion of the chosen installation, talk about graphics bloat guys, well you can stop, you bloated it enoughà..GET RID OF THEM.
Replace them with mouse over info boxes that tell players exactly what they are doing, how much they are doing of it and when they are going to stop doing it. If your gonna bloat then make it worth the effort and not just a display of crass thinking.
As for the click fest, heard nothing but complaints about this, replace it with a simple æRepeat last process treeÆ button greyed out if changes have been made, gives your SUBMIT button meaning. And sets the colony running again doing what you asked it to do in the first place for one more cycle.
Timers, here we go again, 30/5/23, WTF were you guys thinking, scrap 30 for a 10 minute assay report and go with 6/12/24/48/96, donÆt, know what clock you got in that office but seems too have something wrong with the dial.
Linking, now here is another one of those, æHow can we make PI less attractiveÆ ideas, if you install a processor and choose a schematic logic would follow that the processor will produce and need ingredients to do so, ditto with the extractors, needs a storage facility, players know that they just made the link to it. *****rdly amounts of grid dictate that players will install a launch pad and link through that unless they have no other choice, so what is it with the multiple æroutingÆ idea then, don,t you guys know when enough means stop with the pencil already, do enough to make it work then leave it alone.
Planet scaling, another gripe I hear a lot of, and one of the primary restricting factors in the PI structure, simple answer if no one thought of it yet, scale the grid too the size and charge the player increased installation/running costs for the command centre, or the provision of grid booster outstations, oddly thatÆs how it works in the real world, seems you guys should get out more.
Few others like the ridiculous way the scale changes when you rotate the planet to view, problems with selecting links to upgrade unless you have a micromanaged mouse pointer, boxes for the items listing non expandable, can,t see all the items without messing about, T1/T2/T3/T4 products need color coding, every other posting seemed to deem this a primary idea, oddly Devs did not. ??
In short PI works but has so many problems, it,s fun but only in small doses and defies logic in the planning defeating the object before it was even introduced, Oh we will keep at it I am sure but you Devs need to shape up.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:50:00 -
[618]
Edited by: Grozen on 03/08/2010 18:51:47 Extraction rates have been boosted does anyone know by how much? knowledge is power |
ore4all
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Posted - 2010.08.04 22:49:00 -
[619]
T0 no cash good and T1 super good for cash T2 ****y and slow T3 not good for time need put in it and T4 super ****y 1mill T4 stuff i sell 600000 T1 stuff make 130mill in 3day to 5days in hi sec
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Dalis Nia
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Posted - 2010.08.06 09:56:00 -
[620]
Totally agree with the comments regarding grouping extractors - it is a real pain to individually start each extractor cycle, the ability to select all / group or even just to rerun previous cycle on all extractors would end this obvious oversight.
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