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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 30/04/2010 21:47:20 Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 30/04/2010 21:47:09 So... What do you think upon hearing the news of our -almost- bankruptcy Country?
How did your life really changed in Iceland? Forget stats and numbers, I mean real life consequences. What should we expect?
Regards!
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Koranto
University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:38:00 -
[2]
From what I heard things got really bad in Iceland, I don't know how they cope. First McDonalds announce they are going to close their restaurants and then the country begins to explode. CCP also took the decision to open an office in Newcastle - England, which is an obvious sign of desperation because nobody in their right mind goes to the toon.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:50:00 -
[3]
I think they started the largest exodus from Iceland in the last 200 years.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.30 21:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 30/04/2010 21:53:27 Basically (although not our subject)
I feel that CCP should havent lost anything from the bad Iceland economy. They target a market outside Iceland (so iceland becoming poor, doesnt mean they lose customers). Their Currency fell at 1/2 of its previous value. Which means since CCP is paid in EURO or USD, actually cut their expenses a lot.
Actually CCP might have come out stronger than before.
Anyway.
My question is. What real life changes happened.
Did you use to go out for a drink, and now you've stopped that? Maybe cannot afford new gadgets anymore? Worse, people lost their savings, their houses maybe?
Originally by: Barakkus I think they started the largest exodus from Iceland in the last 200 years.
You are saying they started immigrating? Why no jobs there?
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Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.04.30 22:02:00 -
[5]
I heard that the Icelandic Volcano Party is forming a sister party in Greece soon. Image removed as not related to EVE Online and is much larger than the alloed size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.04.30 22:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
Originally by: Barakkus I think they started the largest exodus from Iceland in the last 200 years.
You are saying they started immigrating? Why no jobs there?
Yeah, the economy tanked now everyone is leaving in droves b/c they can't support themselves.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100407/lf_afp/icelandeconomysocialimmigration_20100407153600
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.30 22:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
Originally by: Barakkus I think they started the largest exodus from Iceland in the last 200 years.
You are saying they started immigrating? Why no jobs there?
Yeah, the economy tanked now everyone is leaving in droves b/c they can't support themselves.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100407/lf_afp/icelandeconomysocialimmigration_20100407153600
Ouch... Having a loan in foreing currency, and seeing your currency plumming... is extremely painfull.
Wikipedia was much less harsh in the bankruptcy effects. It says that people cut wages about 15-20%, and that unemployment tripled. Mind though that is still very low, at around 4-5%.
Greece already has an anemployment of 12% to start with. When bankruptcy effects kick in who knows where it will climb.
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.04.30 23:08:00 -
[8]
doesn't Greece's economy depend on us British getting hammered on all those little islands and ****ing into the med :D
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Lucifer I
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Posted - 2010.05.01 03:38:00 -
[9]
My life didn't change that much. Back before the financial crises hit Iceland, I owed the bank 2m Isk (thats not much) Now I dont owe them **** I've paid all my loans I still have my job.
The only real change that hit my wallet is paying for gasoline and buying food, I'm single, no kids, low rent and cheap car (thank god I didn't buy that M.Benz back in 2007)
I stopped buying strong alcahol (still buy beer) from the "liquid store" in Iceland, moonshine is my friend atm. :) nothing wrong with that saves me few thousund Isk each time I get drunk every other weekend..
I take my vacation in Iceland now.
Buying my second HdTv at the end of the summer this one Panasonic - TXP50G20 Or that one Panasonic - TXP46G20 havent deside.
So not much change on my side. Still living my life and spending Isk on stupid ****.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.01 06:17:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 01/05/2010 06:20:00
Originally by: Lucifer I My life didn't change that much. Back before the financial crises hit Iceland, I owed the bank 2m Isk (thats not much) Now I dont owe them **** I've paid all my loans I still have my job.
The only real change that hit my wallet is paying for gasoline and buying food, I'm single, no kids, low rent and cheap car (thank god I didn't buy that M.Benz back in 2007)
I stopped buying strong alcahol (still buy beer) from the "liquid store" in Iceland, moonshine is my friend atm. :) nothing wrong with that saves me few thousund Isk each time I get drunk every other weekend..
I take my vacation in Iceland now.
Buying my second HdTv at the end of the summer this one Panasonic - TXP50G20 Or that one Panasonic - TXP46G20 havent deside.
So not much change on my side. Still living my life and spending Isk on stupid ****.
In a few words you simply reduced some expenses (from what I hear that isnt anything huge, just cheaper alchohol) But is it everybody like you? Are you a typical Icelander?
Because the article that was linked above was pretty obliteraring.
Now lets see the situation in Greece.
People working on the public sector have already cut 10% of their wages. This is about to become 15%-20%. People working in the public sector are about 1/4 of the Greek population, not a small number. People working in the private sector are about to lose also 10% of their wages. VAT went from 18% to 21% and is about to become 25% now. This is a 7% rise (actuall reduction in our income) in some months. So wages -15%, prices +7%.
Everybody is gonna stop spending money and people fear that a lot of small business will not have any customers anymore. Lowering your actual income by 30% is quite a lot. Because this small surplass is usually what is left to spend. You cant save money from your loan, or from the gas, or from the rent, or from the food you buy. So +20% income, might actually be all the money that are left to spent freely and not on fixed needs.
Im also single. Now wife, no kids no loans. I'm free as a bird. I dont care actually, I'm not rich, but ok, I wond buy a new gadget every 2-3 months. So what? But what happens for people that are with loans. People make their plans, and cutting wages without cutting loans, will almost be suffocating.
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jason hill
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.05.01 15:06:00 -
[11]
didnt the germans say that they would pay off greece`s debt in return for one of thier islands (corfu i think) .... do it you know you want to
destroy everything you touch |
Glarion Garnier
Thermal reaction
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Posted - 2010.05.01 15:33:00 -
[12]
Some facts about greeks -they regularly retire after 33-37 years of working - so in effect they have now proposed 14 years increase in retirement -many of country bussinesses are infamous for not paying taxes. (this happens alot in various areas of tourism) -there is lots of corruption in the coutry
BUT the loans that europeans now have to make to Greece .. are basically for the banks of France , Germany .. so we are now bailing out the banks in Europe.
_________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
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Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2010.05.01 15:46:00 -
[13]
The only reason why the EU is bailing out Greece is the euro. We do it for the stability of our currency and economy.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.02 19:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 02/05/2010 20:04:42
Originally by: jason hill didnt the germans say that they would pay off greece`s debt in return for one of thier islands (corfu i think) .... do it you know you want to
Guys dont say things that are at least not plausible. And cross-check your sources, because anybody that says something might be serving some purpose.
There is an important thing that you didnt mention. This is a LOAN. Its gonna be paid back. Nobody is a charity. This LOAN has an INTEREST. Not a small one. There is a profit to be made there. The reason we asked for help by the IMF and EU is that getting loan from the free markets became nearly imposible, we had lost credibility, and interests went ridicusly high. So we had no option tha ask help from EU and IMF. But in order to give us loan with low-interest, it needed to be risk-free. Risk free, means hard measures.
In fact all these harsh measures are taken by our LENDERS so we 100% pay them back, yes with Interest. We are gratefull of course for the help, but hey, nobody is a charity.
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Musical Fist
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.02 20:57:00 -
[15]
I will buy Athens for 5 billion ISK or is this classed as RMT? This is so not my main
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.02 21:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Musical Fist I will buy Athens for 5 billion ISK or is this classed as RMT?
Not for sale. Sorry.
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Cornelius Cash
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Posted - 2010.05.04 11:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
There is an important thing that you didnt mention. This is a LOAN. Its gonna be paid back. Nobody is a charity. This LOAN has an INTEREST. Not a small one. There is a profit to be made there. The reason we asked for help by the IMF and EU is that getting loan from the free markets became nearly imposible, we had lost credibility, and interests went ridicusly high. So we had no option tha ask help from EU and IMF. But in order to give us loan with low-interest, it needed to be risk-free. Risk free, means hard measures.
In fact all these harsh measures are taken by our LENDERS so we 100% pay them back, yes with Interest. We are gratefull of course for the help, but hey, nobody is a charity.
Sorry, but I think you are delusional here. To be able to pay back these "loans" (meaning to regain the trust of the markets) Greece would have not only to cut public spending according to the measures you mentioned but to fix the mind-boggling tax evation and somehow develop a competetive and growing industry in a time of recession. I donŠt see any of these points happening.
22 Billion very much needed EUR will be lost for Germany. And Portugal, maybe even Spain are waiting.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.05.04 11:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
In fact all these harsh measures are taken by our LENDERS so we 100% pay them back, yes with Interest. We are gratefull of course for the help, but hey, nobody is a charity.
I do not wish to come across as rude, but from the perspective of the UK media it does not seem to be that way.
Angela Merkel has put her political career on the line to push through a Greek rescue package that is deeply unpopular with the German people.
You say you are grateful for the assistance, but it seems that your workers and civil servants are more interested in striking and protesting than accepting the required austerity measures and cutbacks that your country needs to adopt in order for this rescue package to be a success.
I apologise in advance if there is something I am not understanding, but it seems like many Greeks would rather see their country collapse into an economic backwater than accept the reforms that need to come with the rescue package.
I do not understand it.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.04 11:53:00 -
[19]
While having no actual clue on the real situation whatsoever I do have to agree with the above poster a bit.
As a country Greece is in huge trouble and while that's ofcourse partially to blame on the whole banking issue that's obviously not the whole story. Yet all I hear is that lots of people are on strike and (thus?) reluctant to adapt. I yet have to see how striking helps one's delicate/problematic financial situation.
Thing is ofcourse that we only hear headlines and will probably not be "fed" actual unbiased info and I'm not enough in the know to figure it out myself. So please tell me, why aren't people in Greece taking up the challenge, putting aside any differences and try to improve on things, I really don't get it?
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.04 12:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
In fact all these harsh measures are taken by our LENDERS so we 100% pay them back, yes with Interest. We are gratefull of course for the help, but hey, nobody is a charity.
I do not wish to come across as rude, but from the perspective of the UK media it does not seem to be that way.
Angela Merkel has put her political career on the line to push through a Greek rescue package that is deeply unpopular with the German people.
You say you are grateful for the assistance, but it seems that your workers and civil servants are more interested in striking and protesting than accepting the required austerity measures and cutbacks that your country needs to adopt in order for this rescue package to be a success.
I apologise in advance if there is something I am not understanding, but it seems like many Greeks would rather see their country collapse into an economic backwater than accept the reforms that need to come with the rescue package.
I do not understand it.
Wait until you see the reaction of the UK public to the austerity meaures that WE will very soon have to implement.
Hint: strikes, riots.
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.04 18:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Barakkus Yeah, the economy tanked now everyone is leaving in droves b/c they can't support themselves.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100407/lf_afp/icelandeconomysocialimmigration_20100407153600
Quote: In 2009, more than 10,600 people left the country of fewer than 320,000 inhabitants, according to official statistics, with 4,835 more people moving away than immigrating.
Unholy Rage?
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Barakkus
Spacelane Innovation
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Posted - 2010.05.04 22:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Barakkus Yeah, the economy tanked now everyone is leaving in droves b/c they can't support themselves.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100407/lf_afp/icelandeconomysocialimmigration_20100407153600
Quote: In 2009, more than 10,600 people left the country of fewer than 320,000 inhabitants, according to official statistics, with 4,835 more people moving away than immigrating.
Unholy Rage?
CCP is trying to reduce the load on their servers
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.04 23:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cornelius Cash
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
There is an important thing that you didnt mention. This is a LOAN. Its gonna be paid back. Nobody is a charity. This LOAN has an INTEREST. Not a small one. There is a profit to be made there. The reason we asked for help by the IMF and EU is that getting loan from the free markets became nearly imposible, we had lost credibility, and interests went ridicusly high. So we had no option tha ask help from EU and IMF. But in order to give us loan with low-interest, it needed to be risk-free. Risk free, means hard measures.
In fact all these harsh measures are taken by our LENDERS so we 100% pay them back, yes with Interest. We are gratefull of course for the help, but hey, nobody is a charity.
Sorry, but I think you are delusional here. To be able to pay back these "loans" (meaning to regain the trust of the markets) Greece would have not only to cut public spending according to the measures you mentioned but to fix the mind-boggling tax evation and somehow develop a competetive and growing industry in a time of recession. I donŠt see any of these points happening.
22 Billion very much needed EUR will be lost for Germany. And Portugal, maybe even Spain are waiting.
We are taking the measures that are forced to us - rightfully. Are you implying in a few words that we will fail to pay back our lenders? Guess we wait and see. I think we will pay back, after all we have no other alternative.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.04 23:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 04/05/2010 23:18:47
Originally by: Marko Riva While having no actual clue on the real situation whatsoever I do have to agree with the above poster a bit.
As a country Greece is in huge trouble and while that's ofcourse partially to blame on the whole banking issue that's obviously not the whole story. Yet all I hear is that lots of people are on strike and (thus?) reluctant to adapt. I yet have to see how striking helps one's delicate/problematic financial situation.
Thing is ofcourse that we only hear headlines and will probably not be "fed" actual unbiased info and I'm not enough in the know to figure it out myself. So please tell me, why aren't people in Greece taking up the challenge, putting aside any differences and try to improve on things, I really don't get it?
Well what can I say. I am not in favor of the strikes really. But In Greece there are strong left parties that always feel they deserve more, and that they arenot to blame. There is also a communist party of 7% that supports total cut of from Europe. If you'd ask me they are completely non-sensical, they see a huge conspiracy around them. They fight anybody with money, because their ideology is that big businesses shouldnt make big profits and they should divide the profits with the employers. Its paranoid, you cant properly speak with these people.
But its a small percent, around 7%. However the shout and block roads all the time.
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M'ktakh
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Posted - 2010.05.04 23:30:00 -
[25]
Greek state bankrupcy and nth greek civil war: T minus 5 years.
How the turks must be rubbing their hands with glee now.
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Gallente Trading
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Posted - 2010.05.04 23:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: M'ktakh Greek state bankrupcy and nth greek civil war: T minus 5 years.
How the turks must be rubbing their hands with glee now.
The rise of the second Ottoman empire, leading to a European invasion of the turks? History repeats itself oh noes, watch out Vienna.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.04 23:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: M'ktakh Greek state bankrupcy and nth greek civil war: T minus 5 years.
How the turks must be rubbing their hands with glee now.
Wishfull thinking here? Irony?
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M'ktakh
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Posted - 2010.05.05 00:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
Originally by: M'ktakh Greek state bankrupcy and nth greek civil war: T minus 5 years.
How the turks must be rubbing their hands with glee now.
Wishfull thinking here? Irony?
Bile-filled, cynical irony. Greece should have never been allowed to join the EU. Then again, almost none of the new 13, including my homeland, the Carpathian Waste basin formerly known as Hungary, currently colloquially known as Absurdistan, were anywhere near acceptable economical levels.
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.05 00:34:00 -
[29]
To be honest I disagree.
The problem is tha people refuse to work more, while ask to be paid more and more, because they believe that there are already plenty of money. The put pressure on goverments to hire more and more people to public sector, not 100% needed of course, not even 70% needed thus creating a bigger and bigger money-sink.
You know that being strict with public sector for most goverments is unlikely. A close circle. Goverments do a favor to them by fullfilling their demands, civil workers do a favor to the goverment with supporting them, with ... not going on strikes etc.
This thing however cannot go on forever. At some point someone has to pay the bill.
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Jill Xelitras
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.05 02:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: M'ktakh
Bile-filled, cynical irony. Greece should have never been allowed to join the EU. Then again, almost none of the new 13, including my homeland, the Carpathian Waste basin formerly known as Hungary, currently colloquially known as Absurdistan, were anywhere near acceptable economical levels.
Depends whether one wants to see the EU as a simple free-trade zone, a military and economic alliance between states or maybe even one nation. What is deplorable is not so much the economic state of some member countries, but that we can't agree what we want the EU to be.
On the other hand it is true that right now the financial side is the most urgent. Because Greece has the Euro as currency, the other Euro countries have no choice but help, unless we want to see the Euro drop in value.
I also believe that every country in the EU has its share of EU-opponents, thinking their country would be better off without the EU. With new countries rising to be economic and military heavy-weights (China, India ...) we don't have much choice. I'd rather have a strong EU then having small countries either dependant on the US or Russia as it was when Europe was divided by the iron curtain.
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