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Sei Hai
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.01 20:26:00 -
[1]
Hi there! I'm quite a new player and decided to do missions till I come of understanding the game.
I plan on training kestrel->caracal->drake->tengu, so the question is: will I be able to do missions at low-sec safe on tengu? I heard if you use some system on tengu you can become very hard to scan via probes.
"very hard to scan" - is what bothering me too. Does it mean it is still possible to scan me or what?
Just chose some system I like to do L4 missions in near future, but the system has 0.4 connected to it.
Thanks in advance!
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.05.01 21:09:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Noran Ferah on 01/05/2010 21:10:14 In short, yes. All T3 cruisers are capable of this 'unscannable' configuration. But it takes skills and the correct modules and configurations.
Trained skills, piloting skills, and skills in navigating the many dangers and perils of lowsec.
Also, just because someone cant get a warpable hit on you does not mean they won't camp you in a station or hunt you down on every single gate in and out of your system.
You are also likely to just die on a bad dock or undock, or just being unlucky and jumping into a pirate fleet.
It ain't all cake pie and ice cream.
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Sei Hai
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.01 21:23:00 -
[3]
Just read the manual on scanning. Will 35 sensor strength and 206 signature be enough for being unscannable?
Also solar system I chose is 0.6 and have one stargate connected to 0.4, others are 0.5-0.7
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.05.01 23:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sei Hai
Will 35 sensor strength and 206 signature be enough for being unscannable?
lol no - you need a sensor strength higher than your sig radius making sure you break the 1.08 ratio.
Go use google.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.02 00:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sei Hai Just read the manual on scanning. Will 35 sensor strength and 206 signature be enough for being unscannable?
Also solar system I chose is 0.6 and have one stargate connected to 0.4, others are 0.5-0.7
I, too, would be very interested in learning more about this. For instance, if you slap on 4x Gravimetric Backup Array II (low slot), you'll get a sensor strength of 278. However, I don't get how such a setup could be a viable mission runner, as you'll use up all your low slots. But the appeal of a good lv 4 mission runner that's unprobable is quite alluring.
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.02 01:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Contralto on 02/05/2010 01:38:32
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Sei Hai Just read the manual on scanning. Will 35 sensor strength and 206 signature be enough for being unscannable?
Also solar system I chose is 0.6 and have one stargate connected to 0.4, others are 0.5-0.7
I, too, would be very interested in learning more about this. For instance, if you slap on 4x Gravimetric Backup Array II (low slot), you'll get a sensor strength of 278. However, I don't get how such a setup could be a viable mission runner, as you'll use up all your low slots. But the appeal of a good lv 4 mission runner that's unprobable is quite alluring.
Here is a downgraded solo C4 WH Tengu Fit
[Tengu, hml's Active] Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
6x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile)
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster 2x Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field 10MN Afterburner II 2x Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
3x Ballistic Control System II Gravimetric Backup Array II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II 2x Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
550 dps Tank vs Guristas
565 dps damage @ 126km
Cap stable
Sensor strength 160
Sig radius 150
Speed 630 ms
Dropping that C-type back to T2 still gives an adequate 347 dps lvl 4 mission tank. Remember that low sig and velocity!
Replacing the hardeners with A-type and the Booster with an A-type medium plus Cal Navy Bcu's gives you a C4 solo machine.
Rigs can be downgraded to T1 without impacting the performance.
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.05.02 01:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Contralto
Here is a downgraded solo C4 WH Tengu Fit
[Tengu, hml's Active] Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
6x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile)
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster 2x Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field 10MN Afterburner II 2x Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
3x Ballistic Control System II Gravimetric Backup Array II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II 2x Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
550 dps Tank vs Guristas
565 dps damage @ 126km
Cap stable
Sensor strength 160
Sig radius 150
Speed 630 ms
Dropping that C-type back to T2 still gives an adequate 347 dps lvl 4 mission tank. Remember that low sig and velocity!
Replacing the hardeners with A-type and the Booster with an A-type medium plus Cal Navy Bcu's gives you a C4 solo machine.
Rigs can be downgraded to T1 without impacting the performance.
WORD
My fit is similar, but I use a full set of HG talons, and only two eccm in the mids, 4 bcu's in the lows and t2 heavy missiles for a 221 over 206 sig radius.
700+ dps with my implants. Time is MONEY!
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.02 01:55:00 -
[8]
Agreed, I use HG Halos and the T2 ammo, I downgraded this fit for the op as he is relatively new. I prefer Halos over Talons for C4 Wh Anoms and Lvl V's as they considerably help with tanking. Certainly not required for lvl 4 missions though
I also use a Warfare link Loki to further reduce the sig and increase the speed but that's another story :)
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.02 06:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Contralto
Originally by: Ranka Mei
I, too, would be very interested in learning more about this. For instance, if you slap on 4x Gravimetric Backup Array II (low slot), you'll get a sensor strength of 278. However, I don't get how such a setup could be a viable mission runner, as you'll use up all your low slots. But the appeal of a good lv 4 mission runner that's unprobable is quite alluring.
Here is a downgraded solo C4 WH Tengu Fit
6x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile)
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster 2x Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field 10MN Afterburner II 2x Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
3x Ballistic Control System II Gravimetric Backup Array II
Thank you very much! I see you use the faction missiles to keep the sig at 150. That is, indeed, a good start. :) So, with just 1x Gravimetric Backup Array II you get your sensor stength to over 1.08x your ship's sig.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.02 06:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Contralto Edited by: Contralto on 02/05/2010 02:31:42 Agreed, I use HG Halos, I downgraded this fit for the op as he is relatively new.
I prefer Halos over Talons for C4 Wh Anoms and Lvl V's as they considerably help with tanking. Certainly not required for lvl 4 missions though
I also use a Warfare link Loki to further reduce the sig to 97 m and increase the speed to 744 ms, but that's another story :)
I end up with 97 sig and 126 sensor strength using 2 ECCM and the 4 Bcu's But that's with T1 ammo,Furies increase the sig to 133 m, this means I am better off with the Cal Navy over T2 ammo.
Good stuff here! I had bought the Crystal implants for shield tanking. I best have a look at those Halos too, then.
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.02 09:06:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Contralto on 02/05/2010 09:08:21
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Contralto
2x Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Thank you very much! I see you use the faction missiles to keep the sig at 150. That is, indeed, a good start. :) So, with just 1x Gravimetric Backup Array II you get your sensor stength to over 1.08x your ship's sig.
Note the 2 Gravimetric ECCM as well!
If you plan to have an alt in the mission room, either for damage or Logistics, Remote ECCM is much more effective at raising the Sensor strength! 125% vs 90% for onboard. Just place one or 2 on each ship.
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.05.02 13:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Contralto Edited by: Contralto on 02/05/2010 09:08:21
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Contralto
2x Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Thank you very much! I see you use the faction missiles to keep the sig at 150. That is, indeed, a good start. :) So, with just 1x Gravimetric Backup Array II you get your sensor stength to over 1.08x your ship's sig.
Note the 2 Gravimetric ECCM as well!
If you plan to have an alt in the mission room, either for damage or Logistics, Remote ECCM is much more effective at raising the Sensor strength! 125% vs 90% for onboard. Just place one or 2 on each ship.
It is really easy to get a scimitar that is a/b perma run fit with three large transfers to be immune to probes, and to use it to hit your other ship with the remote eccm.
The only problem is the gates. I KNOW that if you are on a gate with your tengu and your logi and my probes were there already in-place, I have you. Guaranteed. I need 2 seconds.
It will take you longer that that to initiate a gate activation. It is dangerous.
Contrallo, what I would like to know, is how do I make an effective level 5 passive tanking tengu that is also immune to probes to run level 5 missions with 9000 neut towers in them? The objective being to ignore the neut towers. You could assume I have three or more accounts, all with 5/5 leadership skills. I have been running level 5's for ages, but with a rattlesnake the sig radius the size of Rhode Island. If I could use three HML tengus to do it instead, not worrying who was neuted (assume I have a fourth max skilled siege warfare covopsinterdictionnullifyigunprobeablecommmnadshiptengu with three gang links running in-system for that sweet 28.12% bonus) it would be a lot easier to make isk...
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.02 14:27:00 -
[13]
very hard to make an effective Unprobeable Passive "anything" due to the huge sig bloom from the LSE's and Purgers,
I would advise going for a more Ganky Active set-up with the Scimitar remote repping and ECCM.
With 4 Characters I would go 2 Damage Tengus, The Scimitar and a safe parked Loki with 4 links,
The Scimitar and Tengus with remote ECCM.
The following is the setup I used to evade the campers in Mandoo, I had at least 7 combat probes on scan the entire time I was doing the mission. Only 4 links can be active at a time, you can swap out the 5th as required.
Use the Loki's covops cloak to scout the Gates before starting the mission.
At over 600 dps, one Tengu could be used.
[Loki, Mandoo] Loki Defensive - Warfare Processor Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency Sisters Core Probe Launcher Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sig radius 93m Sensor strength 102 (with HG Jackals) I paid 750 mill from a dealer for these. If you use an Info warfare sensor integrity link you get 122 sig strength
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.02 15:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Contralto on 02/05/2010 15:08:42 The scimitar is great for an unprobeable remote repper but the Basi can also transfer cap at up to 90 km and also be unprobeable.
[Basilisk,]
Capacitor Power Relay II Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I 10MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array Improved Cloaking Device II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x5
Cap stable with 4 Remote mods active.
With a 90km energy transfer range you can sit at a safe distance and cloak just prior to killing the triggers.
Sig is 73m and sensor Strength is 89 with LG jackals.
Speed is almost 700 ms.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.03 05:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Contralto
The scimitar is great for an unprobeable remote repper but the Basi can also transfer cap at up to 90 km and also be unprobeable.
[Basilisk,]
Capacitor Power Relay II Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I 10MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array Improved Cloaking Device II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x5
Cap stable with 4 Remote mods active.
With a 90km energy transfer range you can sit at a safe distance and cloak just prior to killing the triggers.
Sig is 73m and sensor Strength is 89 with LG jackals. (80 mill including Omega)
Speed is almost 700 ms.
I must be doing it wrong. I get a consistent 90m sig (EFT) vs. 86.1 ship sensor strength (including all 6 LG Jackel implants). And its speed is just 157 m/s.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.05.03 06:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Contralto
And its speed is just 157 m/s.
The speed I can explain: did you leave your cloak on?
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.03 06:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Contralto
And its speed is just 157 m/s.
The speed I can explain: did you leave your cloak on?
Doh on me! LOL. Yes, left the cloak on. :) It's now 626 m/s. Sig is still 90, though.
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.03 06:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Contralto
And its speed is just 157 m/s.
The speed I can explain: did you leave your cloak on?
Doh on me! LOL. Yes, left the cloak on. :) It's now 626 m/s. Sig is still 90, though.
I will take a look and get back to you
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.03 12:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Contralto Apologies I made a couple of Fubars
Main one is Jackals are for ladar sensor strength Ie Minmatar, The Basi needs Talons. With The correct implants you get 104 Sensor strength.
I had the warfare Loki dialled in as well. which gives 65 m sig, Without that effect it is indeed 90m
Also the speed was effected, 626 ms is the correct unboosted figure, 694 ms with the Loki active.
I have to confess I EFT'd the Basi, he flies the Basi only for Pos repair.
Late night posting Ftl.
If you add the Skirmish warfare Sensor integrity link to the Loki you raise the Sensor strength to 118.
Daijoubu desu! :) And thx for running the numbers again. With all 6x Talons alone I now get a whopping 139 ship sensor strength!
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2010.05.03 12:31:00 -
[20]
The Talons are more effective at making the ship un-probeable, but if you are in the mission room may be better with the halos, will help in case you mess up the triggers and get targeted. With Hg halo set and the Loki boosting you get a tiny almost frig sized sig of 51m on the Basi and 46 m on the Scimitar, BS and BC damage will just be shrugged off.
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