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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.09.03 14:57:00 -
[331]
ôpottsey i'd love to know if my math is right and if this is usefulö
I have been a bit busy so I only taken a glance at it but it looks very useful. I edited it into my 2nd post so hopefully people can find and use it. I also edited in a few other notes like the code war shield extender change. For some reason I cannot edit my first post without losing half the text. I guess itÆs over the 4000 limit.
Thanks for the spreadsheet, hopefully I get time to take a detailed look at it soon. It might help me choose between Dread Invulnerability fields and PDS modules or shield relays and passive hardeners.
_________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Meikel
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Posted - 2005.09.04 19:29:00 -
[332]
Hi,thanks very much for your informative guide!
How does Eve handle percentage stackables? If I have 2 shield rechargers does it do shield_recharge*0.8, or shield_recharge*0.9, but twice? I've made games before which has items/skills that modify the User's data, and I used the first method (one variable that controls each modifier, all items modify that one variable) - but I'd like to check!
Many Thanks, Mr Meikel
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Ayane Snow
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Posted - 2005.09.04 20:38:00 -
[333]
Aliksr, is it possible to use your guide for armour tanking?
I dont see how, without having a capacitor section :/
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.04 20:40:00 -
[334]
pottsey whats the best passive ferox in your opinion?
i'd kinda like to be using rails, and have 1-2 dmg mod in low, and a tracking computer in a med if possible
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kestrelfear
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Posted - 2005.09.04 20:44:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Meikel Hi,thanks very much for your informative guide!
How does Eve handle percentage stackables? If I have 2 shield rechargers does it do shield_recharge*0.8, or shield_recharge*0.9, but twice? I've made games before which has items/skills that modify the User's data, and I used the first method (one variable that controls each modifier, all items modify that one variable) - but I'd like to check!
Many Thanks, Mr Meikel
the modules are stacked on top of each other, ie. sh_recharge*0.9^2 for 2 10% mods.
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:06:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Aliksr on 05/09/2005 00:06:53
Originally by: Ayane Snow Aliksr, is it possible to use your guide for armour tanking?
I dont see how, without having a capacitor section :/
the spreadsheet should work for armor tanking, but you're on your own to calculate cap use and grid limits.
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Tai Lin
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Posted - 2005.09.23 00:52:00 -
[337]
I was calculating a bid whit passice tanking on my raven and got something whit 20216 shields and 1026 secs to recharge (lv 4 skills no implants) which would be 19.6shields/s (49.1 at 30% shields)
i was bid disapointed about the fact it would be only 49 (sure this is still boostable) and i was very surprised how pottseys domi can get 21k shields and 80 reg. does the lv 5 skills+ the implants make that massive difference or my math is just wrong?
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Tai Lin
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Posted - 2005.09.23 14:23:00 -
[338]
by the way, when i would try to fit 6 cms I 2 invul fields II 4 extender II and 5 pdsu II i would run out of cpu power. did i missed a - cpu need skill for the extender? i am using
Electronics lv 4 (20% to Cpu) Weapon Upgrades lv 4 (-20% Cpu need of Turrets,Bays, Sbs) Energy Grid Upgrades lv 4 (-20% Cpu need of Pds, cap batteries) Shield Upgrades lv 4 (-20% Grid need of Shield Upgrades)
for calculating
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:32:00 -
[339]
Originally by: HippoKing pottsey whats the best passive ferox in your opinion?
i'd kinda like to be using rails, and have 1-2 dmg mod in low, and a tracking computer in a med if possible
Not passive, but a hybrid:
2 large extender, med booster, em + thermal hardeners 4 power diagnostics
Can fit 5 launchers and 2 other, CPU becomes a real limiter though. Booster will run nearly forever.
Originally by: DrunkenOne Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
DPS Sheet |
Kelhund
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:55:00 -
[340]
*bump* WHERES THE STICKY?! Donate one to this thread pls :D
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Mesiah Scuro
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:56:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Kelhund *bump* WHERES THE STICKY?! Donate one to this thread pls :D
Linkage. ___________ Nero Scuro's alt, until thursday Saturday when I can pay my damn credit card bill. (I hate Natwest) |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.09.25 14:58:00 -
[342]
ôI was calculating a bid whit passice tanking on my raven and got something whit 20216 shields and 1026 secs to recharge (lv 4 skills no implants) which would be 19.6shields/s (49.1 at 30% shields) i was bid disapointed about the fact it would be only 49 (sure this is still boostable) and i was very surprised how pottseys domi can get 21k shields and 80 reg. does the lv 5 skills+ the implants make that massive difference or my math is just wrong?ö
My record on the Domi is 156 HP regen with T1 shield relays but until I get T2 shield relays I am sticking to my mid HP regen PDS setup which is 22k shields and 72 HP regen solo (both numbers rounded). It only hits 80HP regen when I am in a group and my shield cap goes up to 24k ish.
The other reason the Domi does so well over a Raven is the Domi has a lot more low and total slots. For passive tanking the low slots are better then mid slots in a lot of ways.
The HardeningCalc.xls file by Aliksr which can be found at the start of this tread in my second post should help you work out what you will get with lvl 5 skills and implants so you can see if its worth takeing those skills to lvl 5.
_________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Mo Steel
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Posted - 2005.10.29 03:29:00 -
[343]
My primary attempts at passive shield tanking have been very promising in my opinion. Running the following setup:
Merlin
Hi-Slots 2x 125mm Railgun I 2x Standard Missile Launcher I
Mid-Slots 2x Small Shield Extender I
[u]Low-Slots[/i] 2x Shield Power Relay I
I was able to clear out a 3/10 Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestation complex on my own, without them ever taking me below 40% shields. I'm frankly surprised that I can run it in a tech 1 frig with all unnamed tech 1 mods.
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Kelhund
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Posted - 2005.10.29 06:42:00 -
[344]
Hmmm if the Merlin works that good passive, wonder what a Ferox could do hehe Anyone have ideas for a passive tank along those lines?
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.10.29 06:51:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Kelhund Hmmm if the Merlin works that good passive, wonder what a Ferox could do hehe Anyone have ideas for a passive tank along those lines?
Hum you could try large shield extender + shield recharger + either specific passive/active hardeners or invulni field (depending on your cap) + mix of pdus and shield relays in low.
Quote: dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2005.10.29 07:52:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Kldraina on 29/10/2005 07:56:23
Originally by: Kelhund Hmmm if the Merlin works that good passive, wonder what a Ferox could do hehe Anyone have ideas for a passive tank along those lines?
My Ferox: 11420hp 340 second recharge (83hp/sec max regen) Resists: 50%EM, 68%Exp, 52%Kin, 60%Therm Only 5 Assault launchers and 5 medium drones for offense though. :/
I use 3 Large Shield extender IIs, 2 Resistance Amplifiers IIs, 1 PDU II, 3 Shield Power Relays. It's a very tight fit. I would recommend using only 2 Large shield extenders, and Hardeners instead of Amplifiers. Replace Shield Power Relays with PDUs as needed to run the hardeners. |
Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2005.10.29 15:35:00 -
[347]
I use a passive tank on a ferox when using gang assist mods and a couple of small rails to take out scramblers. Will write down my setup when i double check it, but it was quite capable of tanking any battleship long enought to warp away. and I tanked a corpmates tempest for about 6min due to it,s low rof. But obviously this ship had allmost no offensive capability and I was getting good bonuses from gang and gang assist mods.
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Banirr
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Posted - 2005.11.04 10:03:00 -
[348]
My Ferox setup for lvl3 mission:
HS: 3* heavy launcher/2* Assault launcher/2* 150mm Railgun MS: 2* Large Shield Extender t2/1 AB 10MN/1* Passive Hardener/1* active hardener LS: 3* PDU t2/1* Shield Power Relay
8900K shield 45 shield/s recharge. not optimal but enough to make all lvl3 mission without warp out.
I think a better fit is :
HS: 3* heavy launcher/2* Assault launcher/2* 150mm Railgun MS: 2* Large Shield Extender t2/1* Passive Hardener/1* active hardener/1 shield recharger t2 LS: 1* PDU t2/3* Shield Power Relay
8090K shield recharge=270s shield/sec=74.90
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Marcus Alkhaar
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Posted - 2005.11.04 16:33:00 -
[349]
Hi, I just thought of making a Passive Eagle setup. In the Kali Patch the shield boost bonus will be replaced with a resistance bonus.
I calculated this setup with Max Skills, but it can be done with lvl 4 Advanced weapon upgrades too!
Hac Res + Res Bonus + Shield = we got a new Passive shield tank
547.5 CPU / 493 CPU Used
1601.35 PG / 1582.10 PG Used ------------------------------------------ 4x Heavy Neutron Blaster II 123/849.6 2x Small "Knave" I Energy Drain 30/16 ------------------------------------------ 2x Large Shield Extender II 230/660 1x 'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement 32/1 1x 10MN Afterburner I 25/50 or Shield Recharger II or 20km scrambler 1x x5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 21/1 ------------------------------------------ 4x Shield Power Relay II 32/0
62.5 EM / 70 EXP / 77.5 Kin / 85 Therm or something likely..... do the math yourself
190-195 DPS
This is Still Theory, *The Shield Power Relay II is not ingame yet* the Setup is supposed for being PvP Please help me to make a Passive Shield Tank on this thing..... Thank you
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WIngman4508
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Posted - 2005.11.06 07:30:00 -
[350]
Ferox Passive Test **note: this is not necesarily meant to be useful but more to see what it can do**
Hi- what ever you can/want to fit Med- 3x Lg sheild extender I's 1x med F-S9 Regolith extender 1x M51 Iterative sheild regenerator low- 3x Power Diagnostic System 1x type D shield power relay
Sheild hp= 10420 Sheild regen.= 417sec with the 2.5x multiplier in effect: 62hp/sec 187hp/3sec 249hp/4sec (large T2 booster=240hp/4sec) 312hp/5sec (all numbers have been rounded down to nearest whole) this setup leaves very little in the way of offensive capabilities and relies on the ferox's natural resists instead of hardeners
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OutLaW StarWind
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Posted - 2005.11.06 11:52:00 -
[351]
bump! STICKY PLEASE!!!!!
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Knoppaz
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Posted - 2005.11.17 10:25:00 -
[352]
I got an Arbitrator yesterday and thought I could try a passive setup on it.
Well, I tried it on "Silence the Informant" and could have pulled the whole mission on me without them doing a dent, but it was sooo slow that I nearly fell asleep.
End of story: The passive setup worked great, but the fitting is so tight, that it doesn't leave room for either more speed or more damage (tho the drones alone did work ok, since my drone skills are crap).
___________________
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.17 10:53:00 -
[353]
ôEnd of story: The passive setup worked great, but the fitting is so tight, that it doesn't leave room for either more speed or more damage (tho the drones alone did work ok, since my drone skills are crap).ö You will be pleased to know passive tanking is getting a large boost next patch. Shield extenders will use up far less PG and CPU so no more tight fittings and you can fit the biggest weapons. That and with the 25% hitpoint boost you can fit damage modules and still end up with a similar regen to what you have now.
Previously you might use 2 mid and 1 large extender. Now you can fit 2 large extenders and fit EW in that 3rd slot.
_________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Knoppaz
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Posted - 2005.11.17 11:06:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Knoppaz on 17/11/2005 11:27:16 Well, I already used 2 large named extenders I guess my drone skills will be ok until MK2, so the free slot will go to an AB
Forgot to mention, my shield skills are only 3 and 4 so there is also room for improvement.. ___________________
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kebab v2
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Posted - 2005.11.17 11:44:00 -
[355]
how does the increased sig that comes with fitting extenders work out with the passive tank in the next patch, i guess that some setups may end up taking more damge because of this although the new resistance skills and +25% hp is going to be a big help for passive tankers.
"I made this sig while i should of been working" |
Captain Powers
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Posted - 2005.11.25 19:12:00 -
[356]
I am new to the universe of Eve and I have been looking at the numbers with my Ferox for a passive setup. Last night while looking over Caldari ships, I noticed one frigate that might actually passive tank with. Prior to last night, I was always disappointed with the numbers I came up with for Frigates.
This is my first attempt at publishing numbers so I get it wrong, forgive my first attempt.
The Merlin has the ability to add 5% per level of Caldari frig skill. So at Caldari Frig 5, that adds 25% to the total maximum shields hp's. That can add up to make a major difference between not useable and what can be a decent shield regen.
I'm going to assume level 5 skills since you should have them to benefit the most from passive tanking but you can subsitute your own numbers.
Merlin starts out with 300 hp's of shielding. Add in 3 T2 shield extenders ( 210 hp ) for 930 hp's of shields. You could add a fourth but I think a passive hardner or an active hardner might be more benefit.
So for the shields Hp, we'll add 25% for our skill.
930 + 25% = 1162.5
Add in the merlin's 25% bonus for Caldari Frig 5 skill
1162.5 + 25% = 1453.125
I'd like to think we could get T2 shield power relays for the lower 2 slots so....
500 shield regen rate times our 25% skill for shields
500 - 25% = 375
Add in the 2 T2 shield power relays.
375 - 27.5% - 27.5% = 197.11 ( approx ).
1453.125 / 197.11 = 7.372 * 2.4 = 17.69 max shield regen.
That is great then a T2 small shield booster which fits in what I call decent shield regen.
Ok, if you can't get T2 but use T1's
375 - 20% - 20% = 240
1453.125 / 240 = 6.055 * 2.4 = 14.53 for max shield regen.
That is just under a T2 small shield booster per second regen but the T1 allows you improved cap regen rate.
It's a trade off also if you want better resists from the fourth mid slot or even high shield regen by installing a fourth small shield extender. I haven't looked at maybe putting in one T2 shield power relay and maybe using a PDS in the last lower slot...
I was just wanting to make sure my numbers looked correct first. This is based on playing with my Ferox's setup which I'll post later.
That gives a Merlin an effect of running a T2 small booster full time. Looks like the best frig passive setup I could come up with.
Only down side is that in order to obtain this usably regen you have to have level 5 skills. Frigs just don't look as good for passive shield tanking as their bigger brothers. The lack of lower slots limits them. Only with the boost in shield hp's for the Merlin does this work.
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Max FaceLift
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Posted - 2006.01.16 14:37:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Max FaceLift on 16/01/2006 14:40:08 I've been playing around with a passive-tanked Moa, since it now has a shield resists bonus. Here's what I've been running lvl3 missions with:
1x 250mm (antimatter) 3x dual 150mm (iridium) 2x assault launcher --- 10mn ab 3x lg shield extender (upwards of 7.5k shields) --- 3x shield relay (or 2 + 1x PDS) damage control
This setup allows me to tank most lvl3's quite easily, though the damage output leaves a bit to be desired. Could optionally downgrade the 250mm to a 200mm, freeing up enough grid to swap out a launcher for a nos. Or, 4x150 + 2xheavy, a few options there.
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Fredonan
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Posted - 2006.02.13 19:01:00 -
[358]
I have an awesome Lvl 3 Combat Mission Ferox
5-Limos Heavy Missile Bays 2-150 MM T2 Railguns
4-Large T2 Extenders 1-T2 Kin/Therm Amp
4-Shield Power Relays
I have no difficulties in any lvl 3 mission. Took a good 10 minutes for my friend's Cerberus to break this tank(Highly Skilled char too), and that was before I fit the 4th extender and had T2 Resist amps.
Currently with my skills the tank is at 13,253.7 Shields with a recharge time of 327 Seconds. That's over 100hp/s at optimal In a few days that will dramatically increse as I get the last of my engineering skills to 4.
This setup rocks for PvE, and can tank some 0.0 BS spawns (Haven't had a whole lot of those so I don't know the limits highest so far has been 800K Serpentis)
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Kulam Latar
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Posted - 2006.02.14 22:22:00 -
[359]
I've tried passive tank with my Ferox against Raven. After 10 minutes of friendly PvP my shield was down on 25% and his on 50%. Hi 5x Arbalest Heavy Med 4x TII extenders 1x Inv F I Low 2x Beta Shield Realy 2x Ballistic I (BCU) Skills BC lvl2 Engineering lvl4 Shield Upgrades lvl4 Tactical Shield Man lvl3 Shield Management lvl3 1.7M SP total
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Shoele Lialos
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:55:00 -
[360]
A very simple look at the Gallente Cruisers says that the Thorax would be the best at passively tanking with shields, given the abundance of base shield HP's vs the same shield recharge time on all of them.
However, I have a question.
I've been using my second account as a drone carrier and protection ship while mining. Right now she is in an Exequror. I was considering trying a passive setup where I maximize her low and medium slots to get the passive tanking maxed out, and use the high slots for a Medium Remote Armor repair (possibly 2), a tractor beam (for grabbing the rat boxes after the drones finish them off), and maybe a gun (or two, depending on how many repairs I stick on).
I don't intend to load up on T2 items to do this (although if the price is right).
And finally, for the question, is this viable to try with an Exequror, given their slots and bonuses (in some ways I think the Exequror is a better drone boat than a Vexor due to their bonuses), or should I be looking at doing it with a different ship?
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