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Laboratory Monkey
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:12:00 -
[1]
I was just curious if Fleet Command Ships are actually useful and used in fleet fights for their gang link bonuses.
It seemed to me, mighty EFT warrior that I am, that having a Damnation with many fleets would be a very nice thing (for example, as a booster in a spider tank fleet). Just curious how the real world works in regards to these support ships.
Thanks in advance.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:43:00 -
[2]
Fleet fights, yeah, gang fights.. well that becomes a lot trickier..
The thing is, a fleet command ship fitted for gang mods doesn't really do much itself. Very little dps, sure a huge tank, but no rr etc. Say you have a nice cruiser sized fleet: your fleet command ship is generally pretty slow for that.
If you go for RR BS then sure you get a nice lil buffer from a fleet command, but when does that buffer outweigh that member in another huge dps, RR BS? Also, it takes quite a while to train up a nice fleet booster like that. Most of those pilots tend to have pretty good pvp skills too, so those other ships they could fly would be pretty nice to have skill wise too.
This is generally why people keep the fleet commands (or t3 gang mod fits) for the larger fleets and just use a field command or bc + one gang mod for gangs.
All the above is prolly crap Drone Guide
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.07 06:10:00 -
[3]
They are very useful, not just in large fleets.
If you go with small gang, your best bet is a sleipnir, it can be decently nanoed and packs a hell of a punch. _______________________ We come for our people! |
Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.05.07 07:02:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 07/05/2010 07:02:00 Gang bonuses are horribly broken and overpowered. Train an alt for it and your fleet's efficiency increases tenfolds with no actual loss at all.
Just park it in a SS and turn on your bonuses while you play on your main. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
Ugly Eric
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Posted - 2010.05.07 07:08:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ugly Eric on 07/05/2010 07:09:32 Actually the damnation and the Eos are the two ships that are not that useful in anything but huge fleets. Eos giving the ECM wing/squad its bonuses and damnation giving to all RR related its bonuses.
However the Vulture and the Claymore (or one of them with more than 3 links) gives a hell of a boost to any nanohac, shield bc or any fast moving fleet. The thing with claymore atleast is, that with its own bonuses and a skirmish warfare mind link it really is a fast and agile ship. If you pack a Claymore with speed, propulsion jamming range and shield transfer efficency gang links, it really is a force multiplier in a shield bc fleet supported by a scimitar or basilisk aswell in a fleet of any Hacs and high speed. A max skilled skirmish linker with mind link can make a faction fitted rapier web up to 103km with overheat aswell make the arazu point to up to 95km in overheat. With the speed link it makes every ab and mwd fitted ship in fleet fly about 25% faster than normal. The shield effi link gives almost 17% more shield per cycle compared to normal. If you sacrifice the tank of that claymore and put even a shield resist link, it can give a huge up to 18% more resists, whitch is a LOT in a scimi supported fleet. And these shield number where in thought of being fitted to a pilot with skirmish mind link.
So to a conclusion. With those links my hurricane (I have hg snakes) flies overheated about 3100m/s having 56k ehp doing the normal 700dps pointing to little over 40km (true sansha point) and once the scimi gets lock, its practically invulnerable due to the siege links. Is the gang links useful? yes they are.
Claymore does not do that much itself. It gives you a deasent 250-300 dps with artys, so it can stay away from the midst of the fight and is as agile and fast as any of the other races cruiser hulls. Only minnie ships catch it easily. So I would really much recommend people (especially small corps/allys)to use more of these to compensate the lack of members compared to bigger groups.
Damnation is really as good booster to RR BS fleets as the clay or vulture to shield and fast fleets, but I have none experience what so ever of them.
Eric
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.07 11:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 07/05/2010 07:02:00 Gang bonuses are horribly broken and overpowered. Train an alt for it and your fleet's efficiency increases tenfolds with no actual loss at all.
Just park it in a SS and turn on your bonuses while you play on your main.
Until the fight moves one jump over...
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Kazzzi
Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.05.07 11:35:00 -
[7]
Damnation is sex. The enemy has 2 choices, kill the turbo tanked damnation or let your fleet have double the tank. Plus it looks hot. |
Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.07 11:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Suitonia on 07/05/2010 11:47:38
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 07/05/2010 07:02:00 Gang bonuses are horribly broken and overpowered. Train an alt for it and your fleet's efficiency increases tenfolds with no actual loss at all.
Just park it in a SS and turn on your bonuses while you play on your main.
Until the fight moves one jump over...
in 0.0 this might be a problem, but generally in lowsec/highsec a neutral Damnation is invulnerable (cloak/mwd). It's possible to get one close to non-probable too while running the 3 links with mwd/cloak.
The better option of course is to train for a legion if you want a dedicated fleet booster. You can get Covert ops, interdiction nullifier very difficult to probe legion set-up with 3 gang links reasonably easy. Impossible to probe if you have a Loki/Claymore with the sig radius link.
But yeah, Damnation is generally useless on the field, it's basically the armor equivalent of an SPR Drake. ---
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.07 16:10:00 -
[9]
I fly Damnations in 0.0 Fleets all the time. I'd hazard to say that its the most useful ship in the game. Bear in mind that I'm talking about PVP only, specifically for 0.0 combat.
I've also properly skilled for Command Ships. Things like Command Ship V, 9.5 mill exp in Leadership, etc.
In Fleet fights, like the current invasion going on, you'll have 50 people in your Wing. A Wing is prolly all you'll boost, because the FC spot is ... well.. only for FC's. In spite of my best efforts, you'll rarely get the Fleet Booster role, but that's another discussion.
First off, all Command ship pilots should have the proper Mindlink. Armor Mindlink is the most useful. The most important Gang mod is Passive Defense. 0.0 Battleship fleets NEVER shield tank. After that mod, you *might* put the other 2 repair armor mods, but if you do make a sincere effort to get the fleet's Logis into your Wing. Boosting only 1-3 Logis who randomly get into your Wing is not worth losing bonuses for the other 47 people. My current FOTM is Passive Defense, Shield Harmonizing and Evasive Manuevers. With my skills, I'm giving 25.875% armor resists, 12% shield resists and reducing Signature Radius by one class of ship. All that is designed to give the most EHP possible for all ships in the Wing.
The ship itself easily has 250k EHP. In spite of what some have said, you'll almost never get primaried. With easily twice the EHP of any battleship your fleetmates in Logis will have plenty of time to keep you alive, and the enemy FC's know this.
I've run 6-link Command ships before, specifically last year when we killed Kenny. Its the most boring thing imaginable. All you do is sit at a pos and listen to people having fun. Exremely useful, etc, but unless I'm getting paid I'd like to have some fun of my own. Damnations stay with the BS and do usefull things like killing interdictors and shooting a little. (Command ships don't really do much damage)
Other command ships are better suited for smaller ships/fleets. But for 0.0 Fleet battles, there is no better ship than a Damnation.
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Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.05.07 16:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Suitonia Edited by: Suitonia on 07/05/2010 11:47:38
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 07/05/2010 07:02:00 Gang bonuses are horribly broken and overpowered. Train an alt for it and your fleet's efficiency increases tenfolds with no actual loss at all.
Just park it in a SS and turn on your bonuses while you play on your main.
Until the fight moves one jump over...
in 0.0 this might be a problem, but generally in lowsec/highsec a neutral Damnation is invulnerable (cloak/mwd). It's possible to get one close to non-probable too while running the 3 links with mwd/cloak.
The better option of course is to train for a legion if you want a dedicated fleet booster. You can get Covert ops, interdiction nullifier very difficult to probe legion set-up with 3 gang links reasonably easy. Impossible to probe if you have a Loki/Claymore with the sig radius link.
But yeah, Damnation is generally useless on the field, it's basically the armor equivalent of an SPR Drake.
Right now I think that command ships (field and fleet) are a little underpowered at the moment except (for the fleet at least) in big fleet situations. Underpowered for a couple of reasons...
1) The cost of the ship (even though it lowered considerably following invention) is still very high to make it really viable in pvp in most cases. Pve use is not in discussion since the nighthawk or the vulture can solo tank L5s. While the heavy tank you can get on these ships is fine, nobody ever won through tank alone. And due to point 2, in small gang warfare there is no need to bother killing the command ship until the more dangerous members of the fleet are dealt with.
2) Fleet advantages... First of all: most bonuses you get from a command ship pilot are NOT tied to the ship but to the pilot itself. You can have all the leadership skills at 5 and a mindlink as well, for one type of skill (and given the cost, you can swap it every time IIRC) and you will give your fleet the same bonuses if you're in a titan or in a pod as long as you're in the same system. The bonuses given by the command ship itself are quite limited in scope and often also in quantity. The kind of bonuses could be reworked (and maybe expanded) a little, but the real problem is that in small scale warfare you're probably better off bringing another ship instead of a command because the advantage you give to your fleet is only proportional to the number of ships that can use it. This is already limited by the low number of gang members in the scenario we're considering. Add to that the fact that unless you fly with a very specialized group of ships, most ships will not take advantage of your command bonuses: (IE: shield bonuses with armor ships and vice versa, speed bonuses on... well everything that is not minmatar basically, information bonuses on non EW ships (or ships that aren't opposed by ECM ships).
3) Weight. Not literally but in small gang warfare you're almost certainly slowing down your gang. Most gang warfare is done in HACs at best. Sometimes you may happen to be in a BC gang but if the numbers are low, you're better off taking a BC and roll with it. You will probably do more damage and lose less if they pop you. The possible exception here is the claymore. If it has a speed comparable to that of the hurricane then it may see more use in small gang warfare, though I'm doubtfull if it'll be actually better than a 'cane or another vaga in said scenario.
I haven't proposals to make right now but I feel it's a pity that such nice ships are so underused. They may have other bonuses/functions added when (or rather IF) the formations that were proposed last fanfest ever make it to TQ.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.07 16:26:00 -
[11]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 07/05/2010 16:30:54 As opposed to the fleet brick support pilot above me (the Damnation dude) I normally fly the demented mindlink Claymore that every zoom/recon pilot loves due to lovely enhanced tackle mods, speed etc. Claymore covers the support side of the house for the big fleet stuff too.
Oh...just doing the last horrible time sink that is Armored Warfare Spec V for the Damnation so I never again have to undock a BS .
So yeah...you see Damnation/Claymore. Not often spotted are the Caldari/Gallente counterparts.
**edit**The Claymore is relatively agile and speedy enough to roll with fast movers on a roam...a few hardwires and decent implants make it zoom enough to keep up.
The Damnation is a brick. Again specialized implants and hardwires help the ship and pilot survive. Ever wonder why Slave sets are so expensive? Check out what a slave pilot can boost a Damnation tank to with a quality fitting (aka: bit of pimpage faction-wise).
Neither ship is called primary very often by competent FC's (there are exceptions).
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.05.07 16:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Edited by: Amarr Supremacist on 07/05/2010 07:02:00 Gang bonuses are horribly broken and overpowered. Train an alt for it and your fleet's efficiency increases tenfolds with no actual loss at all.
Just park it in a SS and turn on your bonuses while you play on your main.
Until the fight moves one jump over...
Then you move your alt.
SHOCK AND HORROR THAT IS HARD!
If the fight is moving system then you will easily be able to tell so a good ~30s beforehand. Warp your alt (immune to bubbles) to the next system?! That sure seems complicated. ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
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