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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.10 12:45:00 -
[1]
I have been watching the CSM closely and I have noticed that the CSM aren't any better than real politicians.
It starts with the candidates introducing themselves and their idea's and such. This is before the voting is open. Then just barely before the votings open the real politics come into play.
It's not about the politician's strongpoints anymore. It's about throwing as much mud as possible on other politicians. So much easier to blacken others than highlighting your own strongpoints.
Offcourse in the meanwhile in their following they scream and shout to make their blackballing more vocal and hence the puppets pop up and pick up the slack to slander even more. Et voila a real campaign is born.
Thing that actually worries me most is the real chance we get some little Berlusconi in the CSM for a long long time because we have enough voters who have a hard time looking further than their own personal playstyle and even more voters who won't even vote.
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Stevakis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.10 13:10:00 -
[2]
Its pretty disgusting. I think that all this mudthrowing makes the CSM lose credit from a lot of players. It is more and more about egos and less about actually serving the people that elected them. The CSM must work together. With all this insulting and mud being thrown between candidates, I fear that cooperation will be thrown out of the window at some point and the CSM just turns in a bunch of whiners flailing at eachother. Is the mudthrowing just election drama, and will the CSM just laugh about it and get to work after the elections? CSM1 was horribly ineffective due to all the drama and infighting and I don't want to see a repeat of this. Whenether you agree with another candidate or not, deal with it and treat eachother with respect!
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Dee Tearant
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Posted - 2010.05.10 14:27:00 -
[3]
When does questioning candidates statements suddenly turn into mud slinging or trolling?
When the candidate cant wriggle out of it I guess
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.10 14:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dee Tearant When does questioning candidates statements suddenly turn into mud slinging or trolling?
When the candidate cant wriggle out of it I guess
Questioning is one thing, but the slander and smearing that goes on in several threads just clearly shows we have more to do with Emo-Queens than people who actually want to help better the game for everyone.
People more busy with obtaining the seat and at all cost stay in it rather than doing what they are supposed to do.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.10 15:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dee Tearant When does questioning candidates statements suddenly turn into mud slinging or trolling?
When you aren't interested in the answer and just ask the question to put the candidate in bad light.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:23:00 -
[6]
I don't understand why people hate negative campaigning so much. Yeah, it can go too far, but there is a valid role for it. Informed voters are a good thing, and it's not like a politician is going to inform you of their weaknesses. The only people who have any reason to do that are opponents of that candidate. Not all attacks are accurate, but then again, not all self-promotion is accurate either. Just look at Ankh's thread for many examples of both.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:36:00 -
[7]
Negative campainging usually happens when people run short of pressing their strong points forward.
It's a clear showing of weakness if your only validation is by distracting away from them by pushing forward other people's weaknesses.
Someone representing others should win on own merits and not in smearing oppositions, I know it's a Utopia to think so, specially nowadays where the loudmouth attract more following than the one who tries to get ahead on his own merits.
Yet Obama won by merits and not participating in the old smearing tactics used for ages.
Might there be hope for mankind afterall?
Mankind perhaps, EVEkind I am less hopefull for.
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Manalapan
Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.10 23:09:00 -
[8]
I do absolutely no mud throwing, but I will pay 250M per vote. Support Manalapan for CSM!
We must stand together against the oppressive neo-carebears. A vote for Manalapan is a vote for Scammers and Griefers everywhere!
[url="http://www.dyco-eve.com/]Manala |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.10 23:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Killer Gandry Negative campainging usually happens when people run short of pressing their strong points forward.
It's a clear showing of weakness if your only validation is by distracting away from them by pushing forward other people's weaknesses.
Someone representing others should win on own merits and not in smearing oppositions, I know it's a Utopia to think so, specially nowadays where the loudmouth attract more following than the one who tries to get ahead on his own merits.
Yet Obama won by merits and not participating in the old smearing tactics used for ages.
Might there be hope for mankind afterall?
Mankind perhaps, EVEkind I am less hopefull for.
Or perhaps it just shows that you're running against someone who has flaws. Perhaps even flaws that voters ought to know about. But I suppose it's more important to act nice in a competitive election than it is to have an informed voter pool.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.10 23:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Or perhaps it just shows that you're running against someone who has flaws. Perhaps even flaws that voters ought to know about. But I suppose it's more important to act nice in a competitive election than it is to have an informed voter pool.
Anyone who doesn't have the points to win on merits but only by pointing to other people's flaws doesn't have much of an agenda then.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.05.11 01:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Killer Gandry Someone representing others should win on own merits and not in smearing oppositions, I know it's a Utopia to think so, specially nowadays where the loudmouth attract more following than the one who tries to get ahead on his own merits.
Then vote for the person that doesn't smear. It's not so much an issue with politics, it's with the voters. Noise and smear is what most people respond to, that's why politicians use it to get elected. If voters didn't lap it up, then politics wouldn't use it. Cure the cause, not the symptom. Good luck curing the inherent stupidity of people though.
Originally by: Killer Gandry Yet Obama won by merits and not participating in the old smearing tactics used for ages.
... In the same vein that he won the Nobel Prize, sure.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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Francais Tempest
Gallente White Knights Imperius
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Posted - 2010.05.11 02:04:00 -
[12]
I find it funny that most of the "mudslinging" is not by the candidates. Well, unless they each have hundreds of alts...
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.11 03:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Or perhaps it just shows that you're running against someone who has flaws. Perhaps even flaws that voters ought to know about. But I suppose it's more important to act nice in a competitive election than it is to have an informed voter pool.
Anyone who doesn't have the points to win on merits but only by pointing to other people's flaws doesn't have much of an agenda then.
There's what, 53 candidates? So let's say you run a really awesome smear campaign and mudsling 43 of them completely out of the race, leaving 10 behind. Well, the other 9 have been campaigning and you've just been smearing. So you'll still lose. Negative campaigning is effective, but it's not enough. Of course you need to stand for something. Of course you need to promote yourself. Even in the US, with a strongly two-party system(aka, one where reducing an opponent's votes is just as good as increasing your own), there's still plenty of positive campaigning. But people like complaining about attack ads anyways.
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T'Amber
www.shipsofeve.com
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Posted - 2010.05.11 06:30:00 -
[14]
Not all candidates have been mudslinging. Other than that, what Herschel said.
-T'amber
POLITICS:SIMULATORÖ
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.11 07:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Manalapan I do absolutely no mud throwing, but I will pay 250M per vote.
I haven't been doing any mud slinging. I do pay one kitten per vote. Fresh or roasted, your choice... My CSM Election Announcement
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Penny Pancakes
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Posted - 2010.05.11 10:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Killer Gandry I have been watching the CSM closely and I have noticed that the CSM aren't any better than real politicians.
It starts with the candidates introducing themselves and their idea's and such. This is before the voting is open. Then just barely before the votings open the real politics come into play.
It's not about the politician's strongpoints anymore. It's about throwing as much mud as possible on other politicians. So much easier to blacken others than highlighting your own strongpoints.
Offcourse in the meanwhile in their following they scream and shout to make their blackballing more vocal and hence the puppets pop up and pick up the slack to slander even more. Et voila a real campaign is born.
Thing that actually worries me most is the real chance we get some little Berlusconi in the CSM for a long long time because we have enough voters who have a hard time looking further than their own personal playstyle and even more voters who won't even vote.
Congratulations and welcome the world beyond your screen. You finally understood the concept of politics, politicians, votes, voters, mudslingers and so on everywhere. You're telling things that are known and discussed for decades since democracy was invented.
Want a medal now?
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.11 10:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Dee Tearant When does questioning candidates statements suddenly turn into mud slinging or trolling?
When you aren't interested in the answer and just ask the question to put the candidate in bad light.
You manage that part just fine, Miss-Ban-all-pirates-and-lets-make-eve-a-carebear-game ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Caoim Fearghul
Caldari The First Church of the Azure Carrot The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.11 12:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Dee Tearant When does questioning candidates statements suddenly turn into mud slinging or trolling?
When you aren't interested in the answer and just ask the question to put the candidate in bad light.
What about when you're posting interactions directly with the candidate that show them as unstable, unsuitable and downright unsociable? I mean surely people ought to know who it is that wants to represent them?
Perhaps a little lesson in politics might be in order, one that Gordon Brown forgot recently in the UK, the CAMERAS ARE ALWAYS RUNNING. Whatever you say will be recorded somewhere, so you have to make sure that you don't spew bull**** or it will come back to haunt you. Prodesse Non Nocere
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.11 12:43:00 -
[19]
True, but from EVERY person there is enough material to be found to paint him a liar, thief, psychopath, unstable misfit, cheater, facist, or whatever.
Ever raised your voice anywhere? You're aggressive and emotionally unstable! Looked at 5 different people of the opposite gender? You cheat! Said something 5 years ago that happens to contradict something you recently said? You're a liar! Made fun of your collegue who happens to be black? Oh no, you're a racist!
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Francais Tempest
Gallente White Knights Imperius
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:01:00 -
[20]
Quote: Ever raised your voice anywhere? You're aggressive and emotionally unstable!
Actually, raising your voice means you want others to hear you. And aggressiveness can only be diagnosed as a pattern, not a one time thing.
Quote: Looked at 5 different people of the opposite gender? You cheat!
Considering we can't walk around with our eyes closed, that is a rather moronic concept.
Quote: Said something 5 years ago that happens to contradict something you recently said? You're a liar!
Depends on cercumstance. But generally, yes.
Quote: Made fun of your collegue who happens to be black? Oh no, you're a racist!
Depends on motive. If you made fun of him for being black, then yes.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Francais Tempest
Quote: Ever raised your voice anywhere? You're aggressive and emotionally unstable!
Actually, raising your voice means you want others to hear you. And aggressiveness can only be diagnosed as a pattern, not a one time thing.
That's the problem here. People grab a bunch of quotes from me and pretend that there is a big conspiracy pattern.
In fact, it's just a drop of oil in the ocean. The slanderers and mudflingers are focusing solely on that bad drop, and pretending there is a Deepwater Horizon spill going on.
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Francais Tempest
Gallente White Knights Imperius
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:21:00 -
[22]
Quote: In fact, it's just a drop of oil in the ocean. The slanderers and mudflingers are focusing solely on that bad drop, and pretending there is a Deepwater Horizon spill going on.
No offense, but thats what you get for being in politics. Don't like it, don't run.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah True, but from EVERY person there is enough material to be found to paint him a liar, thief, psychopath, unstable misfit, cheater, facist, or whatever.
No there isn't.
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Digital Solaris
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Francais Tempest
Quote: Ever raised your voice anywhere? You're aggressive and emotionally unstable!
Actually, raising your voice means you want others to hear you. And aggressiveness can only be diagnosed as a pattern, not a one time thing.
That's the problem here. People grab a bunch of quotes from me and pretend that there is a big conspiracy pattern.
In fact, it's just a drop of oil in the ocean. The slanderers and mudflingers are focusing solely on that bad drop, and pretending there is a Deepwater Horizon spill going on.
With you around, anything can turn a spill of Gulf War proportions. |
Marquis Zenas
I.X Research
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Droog 1
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah True, but from EVERY person there is enough material to be found to paint him a liar, thief, psychopath, unstable misfit, cheater, facist, or whatever.
No there isn't.
Too true. This is one game where character really does matter. Act like a plonker, get known for it and it will be around you for the rest of time you play the game. -------------------------- Sigless |
Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.11 13:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Penny Pancakes
Congratulations and welcome the world beyond your screen. You finally understood the concept of politics, politicians, votes, voters, mudslingers and so on everywhere. You're telling things that are known and discussed for decades since democracy was invented.
Want a medal now?
I atleast see the difference between you and me then.
Other than you I don't feel the need to accept politics and politicians needeng to be like that.
And no, keep the medal, I wouldn't want you to part with one of your's, they don't suit me anyways.
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Francais Tempest
Gallente White Knights Imperius
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Posted - 2010.05.11 14:00:00 -
[27]
Quote: Other than you I don't feel the need to accept politics and politicians needeng to be like that.
Doesn't matter whether you accept it or not, its there.
Some people don't accept the concept of gravity, doesn't change anything.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.11 18:02:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Francais Tempest Doesn't matter whether you accept it or not, its there.
Some people don't accept the concept of gravity, doesn't change anything.
Gravity isn't something you can change by acceptance or rejecting.
The way people respond towards eachother is merely a matter of choice.
Maybe you will see the difference one day.
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Baaldor
Sperms of Endearment
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Posted - 2010.05.11 18:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah In fact, it's just a drop of oil in the ocean. The slanderers and mudflingers are focusing solely on that bad drop, and pretending there is a Deepwater Horizon spill going on.
A turd in a punch bowl is still a turd in th epunch bowl. No matter how big the bowl or how samll the turd.
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Francais Tempest
Gallente White Knights Imperius
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Posted - 2010.05.11 23:58:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Francais Tempest Doesn't matter whether you accept it or not, its there.
Some people don't accept the concept of gravity, doesn't change anything.
Gravity isn't something you can change by acceptance or rejecting.
The way people respond towards eachother is merely a matter of choice.
Maybe you will see the difference one day.
I know the difference. But expecting people to change their choice without a reason is just like expecting gravity to go away. Foolishness. Until there is a reason for the "mudslinging" in politics to go away (such as fines or somesuch) it will remain as a popular method of trying to win / make opponent lose.
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