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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:29:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Vossejongk You do realize that not much on the test server is final right ^^
You do realize that we're one week away from deployment û if what's there is not final, there's either no point in having it there, or they'll have to move the deployment. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Sachan
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:36:00 -
[62]
Yeah pretty much no chance in hell at this point the pull some big magic reveal of a PI that isn't totally terrible. Delay it, rework it. Stop doing two expansions a year. The idea of keeping two and having one with new features and one improving old features is an attractive idea however.
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:48:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Mendolus on 12/05/2010 16:48:30
Originally by: Sachan Yeah pretty much no chance in hell at this point the pull some big magic reveal of a PI that isn't totally terrible. Delay it, rework it. Stop doing two expansions a year. The idea of keeping two and having one with new features and one improving old features is an attractive idea however.
This ^
{...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness} |
IVeige
Caldari IVever.
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:50:00 -
[64]
dissapointed, lack of nuke from orbit options.
Oh well starcraft 2 coming in two month.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.05.12 17:05:00 -
[65]
I hope they remove NPC buy and sell orders the day of launch for the lulz and tears.
Bonus points if POS fuel production is somehow broken. -
DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.12 17:10:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Crumplecorn I hope they remove NPC buy and sell orders the day of launch for the lulz and tears.
Just for the sheer "told you so" deliciousness, I hope so too
Quote: Bonus points if POS fuel production is somehow broken.
That would be some awesome icing on the proverbial cake
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.05.12 18:29:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 12/05/2010 18:33:58 I'm of the opinion the issues will be more technical than game design Akita. I have been around long enough to know ccp is not a perfect patch day company but they tend to release a full package of what they say on patch day. The only thing is it's usually riddled with chaos for the player base play wise.
Quote: As a side note, i liken capacitor to blood. Without blood, nothing can function in the body. I do NOT like being a race that bleeds quicker than anyone else. yes, i am an alt..Jovial Quote:
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Cyrus Deacon
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Posted - 2010.05.12 18:56:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 12/05/2010 08:55:59
Originally by: Akita T or maybe even NOT implementing PI with Tyrannis (although how could you do that since that's the only actual new feature).
or better yet, Dont launch it at all. Im serious. I have a mental image of you guys caving in and jacking things up at the last minuet because you realise that unless you make the output seriously extream noones going to screw with it past the first basic processor (honsestly, making 20 units of 02 per processor at max. . . I dont think I can stop myself from yawning!)*
here is the reality.
The products of this are. . . . not even remotly thrilling for the most part. Vs mining - production where you can at least build weapons, ammo and spaceship, we get tobuild. . . bottles of air, randomly named subcomonents, pos fuel. . (big mistake that was, NPC Pos fuel, the stuff you pick up in bulk lots from the EvE version of freaking Cosco)( to be blunt, given that the other pos fuel is ice, so you probably were inspired by the sheer tedius bordom of that when you came up with all of this) oh and towers guns and sov crap that peopele tend to stick in the ground someplace and pray to god that they will be able to ignore for weeks on end apart from refueling
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Belive it or not I want this to succeed, dont belive me? take a look at my signature and follow the link
heres my thoughts,
First, Figure out something, ANYTHING that can be made with this that is not an NPC suplied item currently that people dont just throw into the back of a hanger someplace untill they need it to refuel or to replace a pos or sov structure, Bascialy something that the player base will actualy Freaking WANT to and WILL use this on a more or less daily basis. Honestly making mutant livestock and planetary vehicls that we combine to make Pigs in space/voltron is not cutting it.
Second, Actualy play some resource managment games for crying out loud. The Settlers, or Civ. or Ceaser, or any other game of that type. HELL RIP THEM OFF! it would be a 1000% improvment on what you have here.
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And thats not counting the fact that you seem to have deliberatly designed this to be probably the most boreing game mechanic yet, including icemineing, that is apart from the fact that you seem to have cofused agrivating game eliments and negative feedback in the form of thoes almost constant messages that tell you to wait 1-30 seconds for the server to get around to you, (Seriously? when was the last time you had a weapon, mining laser, or module tell you you had to wait 30 seconds and try again?, you have heard of inmproper negative feedback in game design right?) Arbitrarily stupid game design elements (ok I have 1 route from 1 extractor to one storage, Nothing in between. .. . so. . . why the hell do I need to upgrade the route? ) (never mind that currently the 100% production speed is so punative that your better off running a slower cycle)
Who would actually read this?
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Second4ry
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Posted - 2010.05.12 19:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sachan Yeah pretty much no chance in hell at this point the pull some big magic reveal of a PI that isn't totally terrible. Delay it, rework it. Stop doing two expansions a year. The idea of keeping two and having one with new features and one improving old features is an attractive idea however.
Sounds good to me.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.12 20:26:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 12/05/2010 20:27:04
Originally by: Guttripper Could it be possible CCP is purposely going to limit the total output of items normally bought through the now defunct NPC merchants to cause a cascade of closed player owned stations? .
thats basicaly one of the probable outcomes of all of this. If a 0-0 sov holder wants to keep the same number of people in his operation and have someone doing this, then that person is going to have to work on this to the exclusion of other activities. right now to be blunt its probably not worth the effort for most to do this on a daily basis.
Originally by: kurg Are you all really a bunch of narrow minded naturally selected folks that simply can not even consider the fact that CCP has something call a "Road map" of their game and design,
Hello my name is Steve Thomas,
I first started playing mmos back in Everquest, you may have heard of me or not, my main character there was Oakraven Desade, Ive since played AO, Starwars, EQ2, Cartoonland (WoW, it was fun but after a while it got old) Im well aware that they have a road map,
This one frankly was made in china for export to Russia of southern africa that was mistakenly shiped to a Wallmart in Hawaii labled as maps of Florida
Originally by: James Tritanius from what I heard, highsec/lowsec planets are worthless,..
Paradoxicaly they are not realy worthless, due to things like bandwidth issues on routes, the need currently to spam storage instead of extractors to keep your route costs in line and so on (PI is a working example of the law of diminishing returns) while the payoff is longer, its not quite as bad as most people would think at first blush.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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August Moondweller
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.12 20:41:00 -
[71]
well im cautelous on it, but i do belive PI is incomplete. so far its kinda fun to compare it with some several other web-based MMORTS like (ohgodidontwannagetbannedyet) and see that they are more "complete" that PI, when not blalantly equal.
it also lacks the human counterpart, its like you are paying ISK to place a bunch of drones in the planet to work for you. thats not fun, even minmatar wants to hear the scream of slaves sometimes. im even OK with the PI structures not requiring mined ore or other pre-fab stuff, most of the minerals in eve are tailored to not survive atmosphere, reentry or some other stuff like that.
i think that CCP can alter part of the PI setup to fit the game if needed be, like processors handling more end product or requiring less raw materials to work in order to keep a secret to what market should(nt) skyrocket. if PI feels not rentable now, wait until the incredible shortage of POS fuel hits hisec, that should make even lowsec feels rentable.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.12 20:44:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 12/05/2010 20:44:34
Originally by: Lady Kascoff
While I may concede that getting rid of NPC Sell orders would be a bad idea for the first month or so of the expansion...I think that perhaps you were fear mongering a bit with you language. Thats all I really had issue with.
Ok lets review
Option 1 Pull all NPC goods off the shelvs instantly, this will basicaly trigger an expectation of fairly high prices on the part of producers, many of who are going to be on expecting at least a return equal to running level 1 mission for the same ammount of work.
the problem is that currently thats not a realistic expectation
Option 2 leave all npc goods on the market, this basicaly sends a signal to the player base that frankly this is not worth doing because why would you fiddle with this when for less hastle you can run a jumpfreighter to your freindly neighborhood space cosco and get the qualtiies you want
Option 3 bleed out npc buy-sell orders, congrats you have just combined the worst features of 1 and 2,
Option 4, leave npc buy orders in place to "prime the pump" so to speak (the price of npc goods will not drop below a certain price due to a shortage of money or overproduction in the game)
Bad because you have just shown that you think the economy needs more crutches to keep it hobbeling along.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.12 21:46:00 -
[73]
I hope we can all agree on this much though : for industry, spreadsheets good, clickfests bad... right ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.12 21:59:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 12/05/2010 22:02:50 In truth, what the game needs is a major overhaul of T1 industry. Currently, virtually every T1 item in the game is made from the same eight minerals, acquired in the same couple of simple ways, period.
Compare that to:
- T2 production: ice >> pos fuel >> moongoo >> composites >> adv.materials >> t2 components >> t2
- Booster production: gas clouds >> pure booster juice >> improved >> strong >> cut with NPC goods >> booster pill
- T3 production: fullerenes >> polymers + god knows what else (i haven't done it)
Now we have planetary interaction, which is another interesting supply chain. However, 95% of the useful stuff in EVE is still made by the very first, simplest, dullest supply chain ever introduced: ore >> minerals + blueprint >> stuff.
What CCP really need to do sometime is start carving up that 95% of stuff and saying, ok, this part will require planetary interaction, this part moon reactions, this part mining, this part ice, and so on. Should construction of a battleship really be as simple as construction of an armor plate or something? I'd recommend that ship construction be far more complex -- perhaps requiring a mix of materials from more than one supply chain.
Now... do I want them to do this all next week? No. I think next week is about getting PI up and running, not about shifting important products to it. Let's see it work... then in the next expansion, maybe they can move one part of T1 construction to it. (My recommendation would be ammunition... it never really made sense to me that the same assembly lines that produce starships are also used to produce individual bullets.)
...
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:09:00 -
[75]
I wish CCP knew how to make a good video game like some of you people. |
Ephia
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:34:00 -
[76]
Buy POS fuel now!!!
Before the apocalypse comes!!!
(I know I am)
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Jet Lobo
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:50:00 -
[77]
im just confused as to how people think that you can pre manipulate the pos fuel market, At best your getting people to buy a stash of fuel from npcs, none of that money will go to Akita and eventualy you will use it meaning that you will basicaly get that money back.
Granted if you get everyone to buy massive piles of pos fuel then theres no demand for a long time so you can. . whenever it happens swoop in and sell your stockpile. . . . but then people will be making pos fuel all along and selling it too. so your probably looking at a long term stockpile
but honestly what moron is going to risk there pos going out of fuel and not stock up. if you have been around here long enough that you have a pos up that you can afford you probably are paranoid enough to buy up a good 3+ months of fuel just because its a pre nerfed expansion.
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Louiss Kimplar
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:51:00 -
[78]
I am looking forward to the removal of NPC items. My "dream" MMO would have no NPC's at all, well at least no NPC that are not under the direct control of a player.
I'm really looking forward to this expansion. My only regret is that you can't blow the PI stuff up yet.
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Ephia
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:59:00 -
[79]
I'm not trying to manipulate anything! Just advising that people buy a little fuel before the npcs stop selling it.
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Shana Tanizaki
Miyazaki Zaibatsu
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:04:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Crumplecorn I hope they remove NPC buy and sell orders the day of launch for the lulz and tears.
Bonus points if POS fuel production is somehow broken.
I think I am buying three months worth of fuel on the 16th.
(Won't wait till the 17th as I forsee a DB crash...)
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:07:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Louiss Kimplar I am looking forward to the removal of NPC items. My "dream" MMO would have no NPC's at all, well at least no NPC that are not under the direct control of a player.
I think you fail to understand the concept of Non Player Character. __________
Multispectacular. |
Louiss Kimplar
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:10:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Louiss Kimplar I am looking forward to the removal of NPC items. My "dream" MMO would have no NPC's at all, well at least no NPC that are not under the direct control of a player.
I think you fail to understand the concept of Non Player Character.
I'm talking about NPC's such as the vendors in Star Wars Galaxies. They are NPC's (per se), but they are controlled by players. That is the only type of NPC I would like to see in Eve. An NPC that doesn't take it's orders from CCP, but from the players.
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:29:00 -
[83]
Well I have to admit I don't agree with your analysis Akita.
I think perhaps you have jumped the gun here a bit and here is my reasoning.
When I looked at the POS structure material requirements I concluded that the materials in no way shape or form could be those present on the live server.
If the Bill of Materials is correct then they are a joke - and I'm talking about the Bill of Materials with PI High Tech Components only,,, so I think they will be changed.
There are two obvious things:
1) Most structures will require some kind of Mineral input or sub components,, the reason being a tower just would not make sense being built of just High Tech PI Components,,, nor would a Gun require the exact same components but just less of them.
2) I expect the NPC market to remain in place to be honest,, simply because getting the PI fabric up to speed will take some weeks. As will balancing that system. Perhaps when the system is proven NPC support fades away,, which would be a D/B change.
But I think looking at it PI will be a success,, but mainly for those living in null sec.
As regards everyone else,, I expect it will ultimately be a damp squid as not many new POS's are built in high sec and low sec requirements will be low.
Compared to previous ship BPO releases,, this will be like popping a wet paper bag
I do generally agree with your analysis of the UI,, it's very poor,,, but since when has industry been taken seriously in Eve ?
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Aengelina Abendroth
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:32:00 -
[84]
1) Push the release back, take some of that time that you crowed about not taking in the Devblog to create a fully designed and well thought out feature. (Play some Civ or hell 1990s SimCity to get some more involved ideas...)
2) Push back the release and make this an industry patch... meaning figure out way to not destroy mining as an actual active profession. Insurance change although needed to return risk to 0.0 BS fleets, is going to crash mineral markets...
Comet minings, scaning, veins, w/e... I'd hate to see mining become what ice mining is now, the realm of macroers. Flip side is introduce Orca's with strip miners and write off the whole profession.
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:34:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Vossejongk Hi Akita
Normally I have mad respect for you, but this time you look like a troll
You do realize that not much on the test server is final right ^^
you have been on the test server before a patch before right?
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Obento Jones
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Posted - 2010.05.12 23:55:00 -
[86]
I could really care less about PI one way or the other. As long as they finally fix my domi's engine/gun graphics in this expansion so that I can actually see them, I'll be satisfied.
Although I know that is a lot to ask...
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:06:00 -
[87]
Originally by: RentableMuffin
Originally by: Vossejongk Hi Akita
Normally I have mad respect for you, but this time you look like a troll
You do realize that not much on the test server is final right ^^
you have been on the test server before a patch before right?
He's just another fool repeating what he has heard from everyone else.
For those who are not familiar right before the patch you are playing the release candidate on sisi. Things do change a bit, like skill prerequisits and as they say reseeding of planets will occur. They take away any advantage that you may gain with sisi knowledge other than the mechanics.
They are remaining tight lipped on possible npc market changes as any word one way or another will have an impact on the market.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:12:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Obento Jones I could really care less about PI one way or the other.
hi cat and a quick nitpick here lol
To say you "could care less" about something implies that you care to a degree already. If you could "not care less" about something, then that suggests your level of caring about the subject is already at its lower limit. Thus how could you possibly care less lol
x Vote Cat for ♥
My Facebook! |
Galyrion
Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:27:00 -
[89]
I think history will give u the answer to this, it wont happen. CCP will launch this overly hyped piece of crap "expantion" because they dont learn from previous mistakes (factional warfare anyone?). Is PI prenerfed? Ofc it is, they dont stop seeding the end product from npc's because they have no idea on how it will affect the market or even keep up with demand. So all in all this is a betatest period. CCP tend to come up with an idea of a great hurricane and end up with a fart in the wind.
Oh, and stop pretending that u are doing something with all these fleet tests on sisi to fight lag, we all know its just a copout so u can say u are working on the problem. U are wasting everyones time, and u know it.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:34:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Akita T I find it hard to believe you can pull off a "fix" of PI in just one month, let alone one single week.
Every time I managed to test it on SiSi, while looking graphically better, gameplay/UI wise it just kept getting from bad to ever so slightly less bad but weird and then to worse, and I don't have to begin to mention my thoughts with regard to your initial economic balancing (at least that requires the least changes, and seems to have been changed most often). If you think you can pull it off by May 18th, then let me offer my condolences to the player base that thinks about PI (or worse, to everybody using POSes if you also decide to cut NPC orders out) in advance, since it will be one of the most nerve-wracking expansions to date.
Please consider pushing back Tyrannis for a month (or two) the very least, or maybe even NOT implementing PI with Tyrannis (although how could you do that since that's the only actual new feature).
Mate, you've sort of turned into a whiny ***** these past few months. Troubles on the homefront?
-L
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