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Swed X
Caldari JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.15 00:47:00 -
[1]
The principle
The things that will happend:
If we have a pilot who is cloaked in your system and you think he is afk. and you want to catch him, it will be possible to fire a cycle of Cloaking field Destabilizer array That will result, that all ships in the system will decloak
If the pilot is afk, yes we will scan him down with regular ship, and shoot him If the pilot is not afk, he will just cloak again, no harm is done.
and there will go 6 hours, and refuling the modules before it can be done again
Cloaking Field Destabilizer Array::: Require Module on Ihub Prize unknown Anchoring lvl 5 Cool down 6 hours one cycle require fuel (stront) Strontbay to stront (only space to one cycle) (maybe a big strontbay - massive ammount) The player who will activate the cycle need starbase defence management lvl 4, Projected Electronic Counter Measures lvl 4
Cloaking field Suppresion (Ihub module) This ihub module require strategi lvl 4 Prize unknown To mount this module you can not mount a cyno jammer, so you have to choose between Cloaking field Suppresion or Cyno Suppression
If anyone want to criticize
plz make it positiv criticism
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.15 00:49:00 -
[2]
dont fix what aint broken.
and you really missed that 18 pages thread on the same topic and want us to have the whole discussion again?
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Swed X
Caldari JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.15 00:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: darius mclever dont fix what aint broken.
and you really missed that 18 pages thread on the same topic and want us to have the whole discussion again?
PLz this is a solution propose to the problem, and a new idea, and yes i read it th 18 page So can we plz discus that instead of the old whining crap
this could be a possible solution
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.15 00:57:00 -
[4]
your idea assumes that cloaks need fixing. that assumption is wrong already. so there is nothing left to fix.
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Swed X
Caldari JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: darius mclever your idea assumes that cloaks need fixing. that assumption is wrong already. so there is nothing left to fix.
Well Thx for your oppionen m8
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Swed X
PLz this is a solution propose to the problem, and a new idea, and yes i read it th 18 page So can we plz discus that instead of the old whining crap
this could be a possible solution
Your "idea is not "new" at all.
Plz stop plz posting plz instead of old solution without problem crap plz.
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beardevil
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:11:00 -
[7]
...but what if I need the toilet? ...and it happens to take a while?
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:35:00 -
[8]
Only if I can get a Forcefield Power Fluctuator. ___
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Lynn Deniera
Caldari The Foreign Legion Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:51:00 -
[9]
something like this? anti-cloak
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Calo Lin
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Posted - 2010.05.15 08:21:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Calo Lin on 15/05/2010 08:25:34
Originally by: beardevil ...but what if I need the toilet? ...and it happens to take a while?
You could log? :)
anyway, some say it does not need fixed, well it shouldnt, but the idea of the cloacking goes away, when a person logs in after dt and stays on til dt, and do so in 5days.
Sometimes he is just afk, sometimes he is looking if anything happens.
maybe you could just make a cooldown on the cloacking device, it works for 60mins and then there is a cooldown that is skill based from the cloacking skill, i could start on 50mins and go down 10mins per level.
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Katzukiie
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Posted - 2010.05.15 09:53:00 -
[11]
The cloak is OP'ed and could use a hit with the nerf hammer, Swed X idea is a good one that doesn't render the cloak useless, it just doesn't allow you to stay cloaked and afk for eternity.
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Solostrom
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Posted - 2010.05.15 10:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Only if I can get a Forcefield Power Fluctuator.
I would trade Cloak destabilizer thingy for POS forcefield destabilizer thing oh hell yes!
Other than that cloaking ain't broken so we don't need a fix.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.15 10:54:00 -
[13]
afk cloaking is fine and serves a purpose. HTFU or get out of 0.0, its not for you.
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Dith Taur
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Posted - 2010.05.15 11:20:00 -
[14]
I support this. I love utillizing cloak as an effective way of gaining intel, but one single afk cloaker in a 0.0 system renders the system useless to anyone not friendly to that player. If the cloacked guy had to be at hes PC to do this there would be no problem but one being afk, thats just wrong. Its basicly the same as botting. Just in a passive'ish way. Nice solution. There are more solutionens to this problem, the most important thing is to accept that this is a problem.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.15 11:20:00 -
[15]
I want a system jamming array that jams all ships in the system. I think that's balanced like OP's idea. --------
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beardevil
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Posted - 2010.05.15 12:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dith Taur ...but one single afk cloaker in a 0.0 system renders the system useless to anyone not friendly to that player.
No it doesn't. The system is still fine and the resources are still there for anyone to exploit.
What it apparently does is render players in that system useless.
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Gumle
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Posted - 2010.05.15 14:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Robert Caldera afk cloaking is fine and serves a purpose. HTFU or get out of 0.0, its not for you.
Purpose and being chicken **** like you is completly different Go whine in another cloak whine thread.. this is for serious suggestions.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.15 14:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gumle Edited by: Gumle on 15/05/2010 14:17:35
Originally by: Robert Caldera afk cloaking is fine and serves a purpose. HTFU or get out of 0.0, its not for you.
Purpose and being chicken **** like you is completly different Go whine in another cloak whine thread.. Or Local Jita this is for serious suggestions.
And speaking of cloaking cool down that ideß is very very balanced and fair. It would even give a decent chance to kill the auto ratting bots.
Ok ... you got to enlighten me with your logic ... how would a sov upgrade help to catch macro ratters?
wouldnt the macro ratter be friendly to the sov holder? wouldnt that mean you cut into your own meat?
*confused*
Quote: Of course the covert cloak should have a diffrent cool down, but we deffently need another module to clear out the afk covert op ships.
no we dont. they fill exactly the role they had been created for.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.15 14:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gumle
Purpose and being chicken **** like you is completly different Go whine in another cloak whine thread..
lol am I whining or you??
Originally by: Gumle
Of course the covert cloak should have a diffrent cool down, but we deffently need another module to clear out the afk covert op ships.
no we dont. Reasons are 18 pages in the other thread you ***fu**er, no need for another cloak whine thread.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.15 14:59:00 -
[20]
Cloaking has been nerfed enough, thank you. And decloak all ships in a system?? Majide?! Shall we warp-scramble them all for you too, while we're at it?
In case there was any doubt: not supported.
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Viridina
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Posted - 2010.05.15 15:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Viridina on 15/05/2010 15:05:32 Omgzor!!! Instant "I-Win" Bottons for all! and instant decloak with Titan spawn !"
ffs
if you want to be a pain in the butt you can easily just stay cloaked in a system forever, this shouldnt be possible. I want to support Swed's idea it sounds like a good idea, maybe just decloak the current grid you are on or maybe abit more. Doesnt have to be a System wide thing, but it would be a cool thing to add.
I dont see why you guys whine so much about cloaking being nerfed, its a really powerfull tool to have on a ship. If a guy cloaks in a system you cant really do anything to find him..
EW-Bombs might allso be a solution
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.05.15 15:25:00 -
[22]
ok, I'll compromise if you will too.
you can have your instant I-Win against afk cloakers system wide bomb, If it will not affect ships fitted with a Cov-Ops Cloak.
Or a complete removal of local in 0.0 space
What do you prefer?
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.15 15:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Viridina
I dont see why you guys whine so much about cloaking being nerfed, its a really powerfull tool to have on a ship.
You can't target while cloaked, you get a -75% speed penalty, and you take a -40% scanning resolution hit (non-covops cloak II). That nerf enough for ya?
Quote: If a guy cloaks in a system you cant really do anything to find him..
Sort of the point. Stealth. You may have heard of it.
Besides, he can't do anything to you while cloaked, either. And if his AFK-ness makes you nervous, good! It'll keep you alert in low-sec. So the cloaky guy is actually saving your life. :)
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Swed X
Caldari JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.15 15:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Swed X on 15/05/2010 15:40:28
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Viridina
I dont see why you guys whine so much about cloaking being nerfed, its a really powerfull tool to have on a ship.
You can't target while cloaked, you get a -75% speed penalty, and you take a -40% scanning resolution hit (non-covops cloak II). That nerf enough for ya?
Quote: If a guy cloaks in a system you cant really do anything to find him..
Sort of the point. Stealth. You may have heard of it.
Besides, he can't do anything to you while cloaked, either. And if his AFK-ness makes you nervous, good! It'll keep you alert in low-sec. So the cloaky guy is actually saving your life. :)
he can do anythin while cloak thats wrong
he can wait 5 days in system and decloak and pop cyno thats what he can do
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.15 15:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 15/05/2010 15:44:50 here suckers: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1300692
all has been said there, learn to read/use forums before clicking on the damn "new thread" button!!
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.15 15:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Swed X
Originally by: Ranka Mei Besides, he can't do anything to you while cloaked, either.
he can do anythin while cloak thats wrong
he can wait 5 days in system and decloak and pop cyno thats what he can do
Like I said, he can't do anything to you while cloaked.
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Ganagati
Caldari Dark Ashes
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Posted - 2010.05.15 19:19:00 -
[27]
I thought this would be something reasonable, like a de-cloaking bubble. But the WHOLE system? That's a bit much. Everything needs to have a limit, and a system-wide field would be OP something awful. Especially considering the 10+ second timer to re-cloak.
Put a limit on this (maybe 30km radius or something) and I'd support it. Any cloaker who ran into one of those bubbles would deserve to be ripped out of cloak and popped like a balloon, but a system wide attack is ridiculous.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.05.15 20:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Swed X
The principle I'm another weak minded muppet, that seems unable to do anything because of my fear for the AFK
Sounds about right.
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2010.05.15 20:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Swed X If the pilot is afk
Then he's not hurting you.
/thread.
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Swed X
Caldari JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.15 22:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: Swed X If the pilot is afk
Then he's not hurting you.
/thread.
well if a pilot is afk 5 days a row in one system he can destroy a hole system, because he will be able to light cyno, if people want to to something. that is one reason why this suggestion
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.15 22:19:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Swed X well if a pilot is afk 5 days a row in one system he can destroy a hole system, because he will be able to light cyno, if people want to to something. that is one reason why this suggestion
I doubt you have really read the 18 pages threads. we presented so many solutions to use your system even with the evil cloaker in system. e.g. ratting in groups of 2-3 people. combat fitting even your ratting ships (yes that really works), not shooting the obvious bait arazu/falcon.
yes you need to have some precaution ... but there is no reason you have to sit in station all day long until he is gone.
It really isnt all that difficult to do it. So instead of whinig on the forums or trying to nerf cloaking just to feed your carebear needs, how about getting your own act together and handle the problem yourself?
just a thought.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.15 23:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Swed X well if a pilot is afk 5 days a row in one system he can destroy a hole system
How the hell could he destroy a whole system? It's a cloaky ship. Rat in something which isn't a pve failfit, it really can be done, you know.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lucius Voltar
Gallente RETRIBUTIONS.
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Posted - 2010.05.15 23:32:00 -
[33]
If he is AFK, then who cares about him.... personally Id rather the cyno jammer... as that lil cloaky git if he isnt afk could have a cyno on him and whoops in warps a cap fleet that you could of prevented.
like it was said before dont try to fix what aint broken cloaking as it is, is fine.
Originally by: Swed X Edited by: Swed X on 15/05/2010 01:04:25 The principle
The things that will happend:
If we have a pilot who is cloaked in your system and you think he is afk. and you want to catch him, it will be possible to fire a cycle of Cloaking field Destabilizer array That will result, that all ships in the system will decloak
If the pilot is afk, yes we will scan him down with regular ship, and shoot him If the pilot is not afk, he will just cloak again, no harm is done.
and there will go 6 hours, and refuling the modules before it can be done again
Cloaking Field Destabilizer Array::: Require Module on Ihub Prize unknown Anchoring lvl 5 Cool down 6 hours one cycle require fuel (stront) Strontbay to stront (only space to one cycle) (maybe a big strontbay - massive ammount) The player who will activate the cycle need starbase defence management lvl 4, Projected Electronic Counter Measures lvl 4
Cloaking field Suppresion (Ihub module) This ihub module require strategi lvl 4 Prize unknown To mount this module you can not mount a cyno jammer, so you have to choose between Cloaking field Suppresion or Cyno Suppression
If anyone want to criticize
make it positiv criticism
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell.
The Divine Dominion |
Solostrom
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Posted - 2010.05.16 01:44:00 -
[34]
or like the idiots in XX-XXX again...
They could stay in fleets, be organized, and stop failing.
The ship I fly is fragile as hell. Stop sucking... plz review KB for level of suck which I can not post here.
They will now argue that it is unfair that I watched them suck for 24hrs. Again I say... if you want to kill me or force me away stop sucking!
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.16 11:51:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 16/05/2010 11:50:59
Quote:
Trolling removed. Zymurgist
lol
when did admins start to care about trolling???? Ever looked in CAOD? It s
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Pask Ainen
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Posted - 2010.05.16 14:19:00 -
[36]
If you want to live in nullsec, you must be able to watch out for AFK-camper-cloakkers 23/7 (meaning that you have enough people that are from different timezones and such)
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Hyborn
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:21:00 -
[37]
Having a pos module decloak an entire system is in my opinion the same principle as afk-cloaking, you affect the game with no or a minimum of player activity.
let me highlight what i think is the issue with cloaks:
* They are unhuntable, there is practically no way of countering them once cloaked, which seems to go against the spirit of the game
* No logistics, all other ships with some "special" power seems to use a logistical inhibitor like using stront, isotopes or even ammo to affect the game, cloaks do not
* A cloaked ship is currently an invulnerable terror threath when cloaked
* A cloaked ship can be played effectivly as a treath factor in AFK mode, this is effectivly botting
So how should cloacks be made interactable?
* Give them a special fuel bay, make them use fuel, and make it so that noone can keep a cloak on for more than 10 hours without a refuel, this will force them to move or have a logistical support somehow, another use for covert jumps perhaps
* A special frigate that can "ping" the grid, and see the cloaked ships on the probe ship scanner, however only allow them to warp to the grid of the cloaker at a random distance. The cloaker should not decloaked by this and will be able to warp out if he/she wants to The ping should not decloak the cloaker, merely give his position away for a second or so, then it is up to the hunters to notice his position and take up the hunt. Fully decloaking should only be by ship-contact (2500 meter rule)
* A module that does the same ping and shipscanner effect, this module should only be useable on a T3 cruiser
This should allow cloakers to be hunted, but without making them visible. It will make it risky to go AFK and you will thereby be forced to actually play actively to be a threath in the system. It will not make the cloaked ship any less usefull, as it will be impossible to lock from a pings duration. It will however force the cloaked bomber to develop some more advanced tactics. No tankable ship in T1 and T2 can perform the ping action and thereby a dedicated ping frigate will be required, making working together more important and also feasable in a situation like this.
Ofc i dont imagine the players, that relic their near god-like invulnerability as a threath factor, would like their ability to be constantly afk from their ships taken away, well tough, in 0.0 you shouldnt be able to work totally alone for days and you shouldnt be able to play afk
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hyborn * They are unhuntable, there is practically no way of countering them once cloaked, which seems to go against the spirit of the game
Your pirate tears are delicious!
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:36:00 -
[39]
why is it always pet alliances/corps complain about cloaking but never one of the big alliances?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: darius mclever why is it always pet alliances/corps complain about cloaking but never one of the big alliances?
how you know who is behind a whining alt? Big alliances consist of carebears.
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Backho
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:41:00 -
[41]
Im sorry.
But i have to disagree
Not only using cloaking modules has very big drawbacks, Cloaking has a very strong counter to it.
All you have to do,is bring as many ships as you can, an scour every inch of the universe at 500m/s.
Eventually, you will hit the cloaking guy, and you can kill him.
Thats a super strong counter against cloaking. Nerf "large fleets" please.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:42:00 -
[42]
Edited by: darius mclever on 16/05/2010 18:42:41
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: darius mclever why is it always pet alliances/corps complain about cloaking but never one of the big alliances?
how you know who is behind a whining alt? Big alliances consist of carebears.
Well swed x and Hyborn seems to be in a pet corp atm. :)
just from checking their recent activities. and i always do that check on people whining about cloak.
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Hyborn
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Posted - 2010.05.16 18:54:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Hyborn on 16/05/2010 18:55:33
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 16/05/2010 18:42:41
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: darius mclever why is it always pet alliances/corps complain about cloaking but never one of the big alliances?
how you know who is behind a whining alt? Big alliances consist of carebears.
Well swed x and Hyborn seems to be in a pet corp atm. :)
just from checking their recent activities. and i always do that check on people whining about cloak.
I dont think im whining, i just belive that everything in EVE should have a possible countermeasure to it, and i do fail to see what the counter is to cloaks atm. I dont mind how they work atm, i just mind that you cant interact with them, as in hunt them, in any way. I think there need to be a way to hunt for them, that takes their going AFK possibility away, if they are not AFK the methods i described will not harm them, it will even make a more exciting gameplay for them cloakers.
I do hope we can agree that EVE is an actively played game and not a browsergame you look into once in a while (unless autopiloting in highsec ofc), so taking the afk ability out of the cloaking game cant be much more than an improvement, or what?
All you seem to say is that YOU think cloaking works fine as it is, but you havent set an argument for why a cloaker should be able to be afk or even wollaping in peace somewhere in a system
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:01:00 -
[44]
*sigh* you know ... there is this 18 pages thread (yes i know it is a lot of work to read it. where we investigated every of your proposed ideas and why it would break very valid usage of cloaks.
but let me summarize it for you into few sentences: why would i gimp my ship fitting with a cloak, if i can be detected anyway? (hint: look up the penalties of the cloak module) Long time cloaking serves a valid purpose, it allows you to hunt people who otherwise would log off/dock up as soon someone enters local. But it doesnt mean that the target cant defend itself when i really try to kill it, because then i have to decloak and he can hit me just as i can hit them. The cloak is my "pos/station", where i wait until you come out to play. To me that sounds very balanced. The only reason to consider this unbalanced, if you want to carebear away without needing to worry about pvp.
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Ganagati
Caldari Dark Ashes
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:06:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ganagati on 16/05/2010 19:06:49 Ok fine, what about a cloakspotter? What about giving recon ships the ability to see cloaked ships? Having a system wide de-cloak is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard of. While you are at it, you might as well make a 30 CPU, 150 PG high slot item that insta-pops all enemies within 1 AU of your ship. Sounds about as fair. But maybe by adding a single ship type that can spot cloakers, it would give alliances something to counter them with/give recons something to do.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:11:00 -
[46]
Edited by: darius mclever on 16/05/2010 19:12:12
Originally by: Ganagati Edited by: Ganagati on 16/05/2010 19:06:49 Ok fine, what about a cloakspotter? What about giving recon ships the ability to see cloaked ships? Having a system wide de-cloak is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard of. While you are at it, you might as well make a 30 CPU, 150 PG high slot item that insta-pops all enemies within 1 AU of your ship. Sounds about as fair. But maybe by adding a single ship type that can spot cloakers, it would give alliances something to counter them with/give recons something to do.
They can already spot me, just open your local window and voila there I am. they know, they have to be careful.
And about seeing cloaked ships? you mean on grid? imagine you try to run supplies with your viator to your home system. a "cloak seeing" recon is part of their gate camp. chance for you to run? mostlikely close to 0. If you meant ... "seeing cloaked ships on scanner"... see my first question in the previous posting.
(edit: fix typo)
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Ganagati
Caldari Dark Ashes
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:27:00 -
[47]
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 16/05/2010 19:12:12
Originally by: Ganagati Edited by: Ganagati on 16/05/2010 19:06:49 Ok fine, what about a cloakspotter? What about giving recon ships the ability to see cloaked ships? Having a system wide de-cloak is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard of. While you are at it, you might as well make a 30 CPU, 150 PG high slot item that insta-pops all enemies within 1 AU of your ship. Sounds about as fair. But maybe by adding a single ship type that can spot cloakers, it would give alliances something to counter them with/give recons something to do.
They can already spot me, just open your local window and voila there I am. they know, they have to be careful.
And about seeing cloaked ships? you mean on grid? imagine you try to run supplies with your viator to your home system. a "cloak seeing" recon is part of their gate camp. chance for you to run? mostlikely close to 0. If you meant ... "seeing cloaked ships on scanner"... see my first question in the previous posting.
(edit: fix typo)
Nope, meant it as I said it- a cloak spotting recon. You turn on a high-slot and there's an unhappy cloaker waiting. Just didn't take the Viator or other transports into account. /shrug
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ganagati Nope, meant it as I said it- a cloak spotting recon. You turn on a high-slot and there's an unhappy cloaker waiting. Just didn't take the Viator or other transports into account. /shrug
Well transports was just an example. you would also nerf recons and coverts trying to pass gate camps for gathering intel. not every cloaker is sitting on the gate.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Hyborn
I dont think im whining, i just belive that everything in EVE should have a possible countermeasure to it, and i do fail to see what the counter is to cloaks atm. I dont mind how they work atm, i just mind that you cant interact with them, as in hunt them, in any way. I think there need to be a way to hunt for them, that takes their going AFK possibility away, if they are not AFK the methods i described will not harm them, it will even make a more exciting gameplay for them cloakers.
I do hope we can agree that EVE is an actively played game and not a browsergame you look into once in a while (unless autopiloting in highsec ofc), so taking the afk ability out of the cloaking game cant be much more than an improvement, or what?
All you seem to say is that YOU think cloaking works fine as it is, but you havent set an argument for why a cloaker should be able to be afk or even wollaping in peace somewhere in a system
I've yet to see a good argument from any of you whiners, as to why you should be able to hunt them. Solo and small gang guerilla warfare relies upon the cloak, so any idea that stops that is just plain wrong. You cry for a nerf, without any understanding of any of the far reaching consequences of said nerf. But simply because some guy that's red is in a system you are. Psychological warfare is a perfectly legitimate part of this game, and helped in no small part by the local channel.
Plus who are you to say they are AFK? I often have my alt scouting a system, without the char moving for hours. But I use it's view to watch a gate and the DS to watch for incoming ships. But by your whiners definition, I am in fact AFK on that char even though I'm not.
The only thing I've gained from any of these threads, is your inability to bait the cloaker or move to another system. If he's cloaked, he cannot do any damage to you, apart from mental warfare and he has zero chance of killing even the most weak minded of you with that.
Either learn how to play or stop being weak minded and grow some.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.05.16 19:57:00 -
[50]
Seriously people, before posting in this thread I would strongly recommend reading the other thread on this subject. It has already gone over most, if not all, the points here.
AFK cloaking is not a problem, it is a symptom (not the only one either). The problem is Local. Any change in cloak mechanics would need to be done in conjunction with a change to Local+ a re-vamp of the combat UI.
Peace. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Bouc Wen
Amarr JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.16 20:00:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Bouc Wen on 16/05/2010 20:03:39 Edited by: Bouc Wen on 16/05/2010 20:01:38 We had a brief discussion in the corp about how a cloak countering ship could function, here's a translation, which sums up the main points (the original was not in english):
To make it tactically posible to catch a cloaked ship in space, the "obsolete" destroyers should be given the oppertunity to help out, with finding the cloaked ships. This is a role that some regular maritime destroyers preforme today.
Let it be possible for the destroyer to probe out a 300km x 300km grid, where the cloaked ship is hidden. On that specific part of the grid, the destroyer will have rely on its directional scanner to get a direction on the "sub", then begins the flying back and forth on the grid in the hope of getting within the 2km range to force a decloak. This cat and mouse game, could turn interesting, specially if you find a black ops or recon instead.. then it's more cat and T-Rex.
The active covert ops have a lot of chances to relocate, dodge or simply strike back. Regular cloaked ships might have to get a bit creative to get out of harms way (but at least they are still cloaked), suppose only the afk chap will an easy mark.
This should not change much on people chances to get through gate camps, as a fast moving cloaked ship would be hard to pinpoint on a directional scan. Their worst enemies would still be the interceptors and drone trawling. Gatecamps with destroyer support would make it slightly harder for cloaked scouts, staying at a distance watching the fireworks.
As for the practical stuff, we would be talking about a role bonus for the destroyers when using combat probes, so it could scan down grids that contained cloaked units. Likewise an improvement on the destroyers directional scanner. It might be reasonable to make a T2 destroyer, which preforms the task a bit better. ----- The only time you are going to see a dane brandish a knife, is if he has a fork in the other hand.
..And then the monkey exploded. |
Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.05.16 20:07:00 -
[52]
please do not make comparisons with current submarine warfare.
At no point today does one nation hand a list to there erstwhile "opponents" containing the names, military history, and personal biography of it's submarine commanders the moment they go on tour.
Nor do they radio their opponents to let them know that the submarine in question is now on station in their territorial waters, so now would be a good time to drop sonar buoys if you want to find it..
Cloaking is working as intended, Local chat however is completely screwed.
Peace. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.16 20:08:00 -
[53]
Bouc: your cloak hunter would make sense in wormhole space, but not with current local.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.05.16 21:04:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hyborn
* They are unhuntable, there is practically no way of countering them once cloaked, which seems to go against the spirit of the game
Likewise, they cannot counter any of your tactics or do anything to you once they are cloaked.
Originally by: Hyborn
* No logistics, all other ships with some "special" power seems to use a logistical inhibitor like using stront, isotopes or even ammo to affect the game, cloaks do not
The Cloak module nerfs scan res, delays targeting, reduces ship speed (when active), and prevents warping. With cov-ops ships, the cloak is the first and last line of defense for them (have you SEEN the tanks on a cov-ops ship? They're quite laughable. Alternatively they could also have little to nothing in terms of firepower).
Originally by: Hyborn
* A cloaked ship is currently an invulnerable terror threath when cloaked
And any class-equivalent ship with a point and guns/missiles is a threat to the cloaked ship when it is uncloaked.
Originally by: Hyborn
* A cloaked ship can be played effectivly as a treath factor in AFK mode, this is effectivly botting
Ummm... no. Botting is when you are automating an action with a computer program. AFK cloaking is just that, going AFK while cloaked. Ergo, they aren't doing anything. Ergo, no need to worry.
Originally by: Hyborn
* Give them a special fuel bay, make them use fuel, and make it so that noone can keep a cloak on for more than 10 hours without a refuel, this will force them to move or have a logistical support somehow, another use for covert jumps perhaps
So, you'll take the only defense an entire class of ships have and nerf it by making it expensive (and thus, out of reach for most newbies)? Great job.
Originally by: Hyborn
* A special frigate that can "ping" the grid, and see the cloaked ships on the probe ship scanner, however only allow them to warp to the grid of the cloaker at a random distance. The cloaker should not decloaked by this and will be able to warp out if he/she wants to The ping should not decloak the cloaker, merely give his position away for a second or so, then it is up to the hunters to notice his position and take up the hunt. Fully decloaking should only be by ship-contact (2500 meter rule)
I could get behind the concept underlying your idea here... so long as the said ship can only use this ability "on-grid" (no probing, no system-wide ability).
Originally by: Hyborn
* A module that does the same ping and shipscanner effect, this module should only be useable on a T3 cruiser
I would also like to give T3 ships the ability to pop a covert cyno. However, I realize that with the interdiction nullifier and battlecruiser-ish tank/firepower they are already bordering on overpowered (they are thankfully limited by cost and the penalty for losing one). I honestly don't see this ability being used for the purpose you envision. I see T3 ships going deep into enemy territory and probing out cloaked Supercarriers and Titans.
I don't think many would like to see this happen.
Originally by: Hyborn
Ofc i dont imagine the players, that relic their near god-like invulnerability as a threath factor, would like their ability to be constantly afk from their ships taken away, well tough, in 0.0 you shouldnt be able to work totally alone for days and you shouldnt be able to play afk
Flying in a cloaky ship hardly makes you feel like a "god." Like I said earlier, for most of the ships that use the covert-ops cloak, it is their first and last line of defense. If they are caught in a bubble and someone is there in a similar sized ship (even if it's just a T1 ship), your chances of coming out alive are wholly dependent on your ability to remain unseen.
I invite you to fly around in one behind enemy lines and see how you fare. _______________________
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Calo Lin
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:27:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Originally by: Hyborn
* A cloaked ship can be played effectivly as a treath factor in AFK mode, this is effectivly botting
Ummm... no. Botting is when you are automating an action with a computer program. AFK cloaking is just that, going AFK while cloaked. Ergo, they aren't doing anything. Ergo, no need to worry.
Where we live we have tons of macro/bot/ratters whatever, when you show up in local they go cloak themselfs up, but yes, if you change of local works, it would ofcourse help, and empire pew pew would be fun
but i somehow think there should be a limit for cloakig, eventhough people say, it works as indtened, i fail to see how scouting a "pet" corp would give any intel other then fine ganks when they get to ****y, using carriers og expensive ships to play thier game.
but yes "nerfing" cloacking should not interfeer with transport ships, and scouting abilities, and/or intel abilities. It is hard to find a solution that works for all things without making someone annoyed, in my point of view, i just hate people cloacking up when hunting them and staying ther for hours
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mimshot
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Abbot Laarkin please do not make comparisons with current submarine warfare.
At no point today does one nation hand a list to there erstwhile "opponents" containing the names, military history, and personal biography of it's submarine commanders the moment they go on tour.
You mean like this?
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/subs/subs.asp
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.05.17 07:13:00 -
[57]
Originally by: mimshot
Originally by: Abbot Laarkin please do not make comparisons with current submarine warfare.
At no point today does one nation hand a list to there erstwhile "opponents" containing the names, military history, and personal biography of it's submarine commanders the moment they go on tour.
You mean like this?
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/subs/subs.asp
I stand corrected (and somewhat disturbed actually)
Curious as to whether that information was publicly available during the cold war? Strikes me as a rather ridiculous breach of security, but I'm not Navy.
Thank you for an interesting link though. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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xplosiv
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Posted - 2010.05.17 08:32:00 -
[58]
I like this idea actually. However it would come in the patch of dream fix and that patch goes like this:
1. Local is now delayed by 10 to 30 seconds depending on the size of the solar system. balancing risk vs reward and promoting intelligence and espionage. 2. You can now Salvage/convert offline POS towers (but this may take a hour or two, be on guard) 3. move the recover and destroy active probes options. God its annoying recalling them when u mean scan. 4. If you leave drones in a belt and warp out. the drones now go to Drones in distant space so when you warp back to them you can just recall them instead of having to fly and scoop. 5. black ops have twice the jump range. 6. Orca can now hold minerals in its ore bay as well as the raw ore. 7. T3 haulers - gain better defence resistances but can be reconfigured in 3 ways - Maximum capacity (40km3) - covert capacity (15km3) - Scan damping hull (27km3)(prevents all cargo scans). 8. Cloak destabalizer emitter. Pos structure that once every 12 hours allows a pulse that decloak's all ships within the system radius. (Add's some risk to afk warfare. can re-cloak imediatly)
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BzydaL
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Posted - 2010.05.17 16:43:00 -
[59]
they should be probe-able ;p I'm flying in sb and I know that if I'm active theres no chance to probe me down, but if somebody staying in system with 300 enemies around and they could do nothing with that - it's like bull**** ;p uber pro - afk'rs
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.05.17 18:02:00 -
[60]
Originally by: xplosiv . 8. Cloak destabalizer emitter. Pos structure that once every 12 hours allows a pulse that decloak's all ships within the system radius. (Add's some risk to afk warfare. can re-cloak imediatly)
I see a possible exploit here, If i have 20 Corp POS's in system each one with this system wide De-Cloak module online, whats to stop you spamming the de-cloak and what is the counter to it?
And what would be the Anchoring limitations? would you need SOV in that system first? Or would it be able to be anchored to any POS regardless of SOV?
How would this affect cov-ops cloaks and black-ops ships?
To just implement this "module" right now with no other changes would be overpowered, and the only solution for balance would be a removal of local as a counter to this POS module.
The idea needs to be ironed out, as it stands now it's very one sided
*not supported
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Bouc Wen
Amarr JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:22:00 -
[61]
If you read the first post in this thread, you should see a much more "ironed out" version of the quoute you made. ----- The only time you are going to see a dane brandish a knife, is if he has a fork in the other hand.
..And then the monkey exploded. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:25:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Bouc Wen If you read the first post in this thread, you should see a much more "ironed out" version of the quoute you made.
the whole idea is broken.
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Cyrus Doul
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:35:00 -
[63]
i like the destab array. Titan jumps in cause he thinks your a tard with no cyno jammer. DD's warps off after his minute to cloak for the next 9 before he can jump out. Craps pants, dies. Have both the modules have the same name but a switch that you can only edit once unless the tower that it is associated with is removed or something.
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