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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.16 00:46:00 -
[1]
The descriptions for Planetology and Advanced Planetology are not very helpful.
"The understanding of planet evolution and the fundamentals of resource extraction."
That doesn't tell me if it is a skill that helps me mine planets, or a skill I would use with a research agent to get data cores to build T2 planetary command centers, or something else entirely. Most of the Science skills with vague descriptions are for invention, while the direct benefit skills tell you exactly what there benefit is, like:
10% reduction in scan probe scan time per level. 5% increase in chance of archaeological find per level. 5% bonus to mining turret yield per skill level.
Do these skills help me find more deposits, let me extract more per cycle, let me cycle my facilities faster, let me use less power grid, or something else? There is no way to know.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.16 01:33:00 -
[2]
Also, I realize that certificates are useless (at least I don't know anyone who uses them) but it would be cute to have a certificate for the PI skills. Something in the "Business and Industry" or "Harvesting" groups perhaps, because there really aren't enough PI skills for them to be their own group. While the certificates don't really mean anything, it can give you a warm fuzzy feeling when you get the pop-up that you have qualified for a new certificate, especially when you are a newbie.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.16 02:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Anela Cistine The descriptions for Planetology and Advanced Planetology are not very helpful.
"The understanding of planet evolution and the fundamentals of resource extraction."
That doesn't tell me if it is a skill that helps me mine planets, or a skill I would use with a research agent to get data cores to build T2 planetary command centers, or something else entirely. Most of the Science skills with vague descriptions are for invention, while the direct benefit skills tell you exactly what there benefit is, like:
10% reduction in scan probe scan time per level. 5% increase in chance of archaeological find per level. 5% bonus to mining turret yield per skill level.
Do these skills help me find more deposits, let me extract more per cycle, let me cycle my facilities faster, let me use less power grid, or something else? There is no way to know.
currently they dont seem to do anything at all.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Zedia Zhane
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Posted - 2010.05.16 03:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Zedia Zhane on 16/05/2010 03:32:28 They are probably supposed to make your resource map (the temperature range one) more accurate. And / or improve harvesting rate.
My bet is that the skillbooks get released as is on the 26th. CCP will hope that the Dev team will get them implemented and tested by June 8th. But that won't happen so they will continue to be obscure skills that do nothing at all. Just like Biology or Astronautic Engineering.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.16 15:27:00 -
[5]
If they do nothing at all, that would be good to know too.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.16 17:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zedia Zhane But that won't happen so they will continue to be obscure skills that do nothing at all. Just like Biology or Astronautic Engineering.
Biology works, no idea about the other one.
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William Mill3r
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Posted - 2010.05.16 23:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: William Mill3r on 16/05/2010 23:25:23 Edited by: William Mill3r on 16/05/2010 23:23:35 theses are not new skills they always were there in the first place, except we all got 5/5 we have tested at least the first book, it increases the accuracy of the scans, so when you thought at level 0 you were in the hottest spot, you actually weren't precisely, the advanced skill probably does the same but it remain to be verified
so if you actually copy and paste the structures of your neighbour thoses skills are fully useless... I think a tiny little compromise for that would be to prevent anybody to see what an extractor extracte... I understand everybody can see what structures are on the planet, but there is no way they can guess that this extractor extract that and that one this... knowing I'm not gonna let anyone enter my facilities, and it's hard to guess when you are at 36000km out in space... and i'm saying tiny, cause it would be very easy to guess anyway throught even a level 0/0 scan...
as it stand for now, there will be one person/ corp/ alliance that will have 5/5 in thoses skills and nobody else will need to
and thoses who would waste their time to get thoses skills could still be copied... also lastly even with a scan 0/0 you have good chances to find a hotspot within 10to15% of the MAX MAX... so in short, if you go to 5/5 you will only increase your yield by a tiny 10% in average, which is quite ridiculous for 10 levels...they would change it by "increase the yield of planetary ressource by 1% per level", it would be exactly the same...
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Piotyr Petrovsky
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Posted - 2010.05.17 00:28:00 -
[8]
Yeah, I scanned a lava planet in high-sec with NO apparent felsic magma according to the bar, but at max squeezed scan and Planetolgy level 0 I WAS able to see the faintest of blue around a magma rent.
So I plopped down a CC and an extractor and got the following numbers for the cycles:
216 1180 1935 2232
Be still my wildly beating heart! I planted more extractors until I got to the edge of the field where it said there was nothing to extract.
Planetology skilled up to 1 and I rescan and now I see the field has an ever so slightly bit brighter blue--AND it extends farther out! It's extending out to where I was told there was nothing, so I plop down an extractor and I am still told there is nothing!
Hmmm, THAT'S a bit of a double-edged sword!
Hopefully with Advanced Planetology it WILL affect yields actually pulled from the ground. As it stands, null or low-sec players won't need these skills at all as stuff gushes forth out there; BUT, if the Advanced Planetology skill actually pulls more stuff then this MIGHT be a help to high-sec users.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.17 05:48:00 -
[9]
whats the rescan on the processor you already have?
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zedia Zhane Edited by: Zedia Zhane on 16/05/2010 03:32:28 They are probably supposed to make your resource map (the temperature range one) more accurate. And / or improve harvesting rate.
My bet is that the skillbooks get released as is on the 26th. CCP will hope that the Dev team will get them implemented and tested by June 8th. But that won't happen so they will continue to be obscure skills that do nothing at all. Just like Biology or Astronautic Engineering.
CCP would never let something go live that has no real affect! I mean, look at the invention implants-- oh wait.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: William Mill3r Edited by: William Mill3r on 16/05/2010 23:34:18 theses are not new skills they always were there in the first place, except we all got 5/5
I know that, but they are still new, just a few months old on sisi and not yet existent on tranquility. My concern is that in a week a whole bunch of tranq players are going to be looking at those very unhelpful skill descriptions, and trying to decide if those are skills they should buy and train.
CCP: please make the skill descriptions more useful before releasing these skills on tranquility.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.17 18:45:00 -
[12]
I have the answer.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:43:00 -
[13]
I found these confusing. I can understand why they would not want final/release-date resource seeding to be on SiSi. I understand why there are placeholders for products.
But I do not see the need for placeholders for skills. Unless they were going to do something sadistic like make Astrogeology V, Mining V and Presence V prereqs. And don't want to give some people a head start in training.
It could be as simple as "not yet written?" But if it can't make it in the summer release, why not just release the skills when they are working in the winter release.
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Estimated Prophet
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Posted - 2010.05.18 06:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood I found these confusing. I can understand why they would not want final/release-date resource seeding to be on SiSi. I understand why there are placeholders for products.
But I do not see the need for placeholders for skills. Unless they were going to do something sadistic like make Astrogeology V, Mining V and Presence V prereqs. And don't want to give some people a head start in training.
It could be as simple as "not yet written?" But if it can't make it in the summer release, why not just release the skills when they are working in the winter release.
Planetology is not a placeholder. I've been training it and seeing results with each new level. I'll get to Advanced Planetology in a couple of days.
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Fritz Ionar
Minmatar LifeLine Solutions
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Posted - 2010.05.18 06:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Estimated Prophet
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood I found these confusing. I can understand why they would not want final/release-date resource seeding to be on SiSi. I understand why there are placeholders for products.
But I do not see the need for placeholders for skills. Unless they were going to do something sadistic like make Astrogeology V, Mining V and Presence V prereqs. And don't want to give some people a head start in training.
It could be as simple as "not yet written?" But if it can't make it in the summer release, why not just release the skills when they are working in the winter release.
Planetology is not a placeholder. I've been training it and seeing results with each new level. I'll get to Advanced Planetology in a couple of days.
The skill and it's effect might not be place holders, but the description I hope is. As it doesn't say anything about what the ingame effect of training it actualy is...
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Minuki Zedra
Omega Engineering Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.05.18 09:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 18/05/2010 09:18:59 Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 18/05/2010 09:17:53 The effect of the combined skill levels of Planetology and Advanced Planetology appear to make your resource scans more accurate. I've been training them up (currently level 4 Planetology and level 2 Advanced) and have been noticing the shift in the resource spectrum analysis maps.
They have no effects on your actual Extractor deposits - your extractors will always use the real values, not the apparent values you see from your scans.
For examples of the improved resource maps, please see PI Guide Part 2 (Work in progress)
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.18 17:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Minuki Zedra Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 18/05/2010 09:18:59 Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 18/05/2010 09:17:53 The effect of the combined skill levels of Planetology and Advanced Planetology appear to make your resource scans more accurate. I've been training them up (currently level 4 Planetology and level 2 Advanced) and have been noticing the shift in the resource spectrum analysis maps.
They have no effects on your actual Extractor deposits - your extractors will always use the real values, not the apparent values you see from your scans.
For examples of the improved resource maps, please see PI Guide Part 2 (Work in progress)
Translation, it still realy dosent do anything for you, just makes the hotspot map look diferent wich is largly going to be irrelivant once you put down extractors due to things like resource depetion.
the effort they put into that is remarkable, its like watching some moron spending 2-3 weeks making sure that a piece of ground is perfectly level so they can use it as a groundhog refuge.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Chibisuke
Gallente Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2010.05.18 19:10:00 -
[18]
Just three words: Mobile Refinery Operation
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Shtirlec
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Posted - 2010.05.18 23:19:00 -
[19]
the higher the skills, the better command centers you can build on planets, which in turn give more CPU/Power
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.19 03:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/05/2010 03:40:44 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/05/2010 03:39:38 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/05/2010 03:36:44
Originally by: Shtirlec the higher the skills, the better command centers you can build on planets, which in turn give more CPU/Power
Ok lets explain this in simple words so you can understand what this topic is about
its about two skills
one is called Planetology the other is called Advanced Planetology
Thoes skills do not allow you to use better comand centers.
the two skills mentioned in this thread do nothing more than draw a "more detailed" map of hotspots on the map, that Ironicaly will sometimes show "new" hotspots, that when you drop extractors on them will usualy draw FAR WORSE than the extractors you put on the original no skill trained whatsoever hotspot.
Something the Developers seem to be hellbent on ignoreing by the way.
the skill that allowes you to use better Comand centers is called Command center upgrades
that exact skill has not been mentioned by name in this thread untill this exact post.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Fritz Ionar
Minmatar LifeLine Solutions
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Posted - 2010.05.19 07:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Minuki Zedra Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 18/05/2010 09:18:59 Edited by: Minuki Zedra on 18/05/2010 09:17:53 The effect of the combined skill levels of Planetology and Advanced Planetology appear to make your resource scans more accurate. I've been training them up (currently level 4 Planetology and level 2 Advanced) and have been noticing the shift in the resource spectrum analysis maps.
They have no effects on your actual Extractor deposits - your extractors will always use the real values, not the apparent values you see from your scans.
For examples of the improved resource maps, please see PI Guide Part 2 (Work in progress)
That is some interesting screens you got there. Makes me wounder how this whole scaning thing works behind the scens... Is the results consisting of the actual heatmap plus some random deviation depending on your skills? If so you should get different results with the same skills when scaning at different times? And if so you should be able to determine the actual heat map by comparing different results without training any planetology skills... Or mabye there is pre generated heatmaps stored for each skillevel for every planet?
Me think's I'll do some testing on this...
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Daenna Chrysi
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Posted - 2010.05.19 08:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/05/2010 03:40:44 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/05/2010 03:39:38 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/05/2010 03:36:44
Originally by: Shtirlec the higher the skills, the better command centers you can build on planets, which in turn give more CPU/Power
Ok lets explain this in simple words so you can understand what this topic is about
its about two skills
one is called Planetology the other is called Advanced Planetology
Thoes skills do not allow you to use better comand centers.
the two skills mentioned in this thread do nothing more than draw a "more detailed" map of hotspots on the map, that Ironicaly will sometimes show "new" hotspots, that when you drop extractors on them will usualy draw FAR WORSE than the extractors you put on the original no skill trained whatsoever hotspot.
Something the Developers seem to be hellbent on ignoreing by the way.
the skill that allowes you to use better Comand centers is called Command center upgrades
that exact skill has not been mentioned by name in this thread untill this exact post.
you can adjust the scale of detail by adjusting the legth of the color bar, by holding on to the white trangles at the ends. you dont need planetology skill to do that.
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.19 17:45:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 19/05/2010 17:45:50 i checked myself planetology (lv2) : the scan i got are not more nor less accurate... there are lots of change, but nothing seems more correct than before. even if the skill is really correct with lv5 + lv5 advanced (perhaps it's that...) then it's really a waste of time.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.19 18:55:00 -
[24]
When I placed my extractors, they were in the center of my scan but I didn't have Planetology skill yet. On yield they seemed to be off center by a bit. Now I got the skill to 4 and at least on some places the center of the deposit is quite a bit off.
So this skill does make a difference. --------
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.19 20:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Abrazzar When I placed my extractors, they were in the center of my scan but I didn't have Planetology skill yet. On yield they seemed to be off center by a bit. Now I got the skill to 4 and at least on some places the center of the deposit is quite a bit off.
So this skill does make a difference.
so it need a big level, as i said with a lv2 i didn't see more logic on scan when testing extractor at these place.
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Estimated Prophet
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:11:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Estimated Prophet on 20/05/2010 11:11:11 Here's what I got when remotely scanning at a distance of five light years with Planetology ranging from untrained to level 3:
http://imgur.com/sIAns.jpg
No testing within the local system, unfortunately.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:30:00 -
[27]
I trained advanced planetology to lvl 3 and the resource map got more complicated. It seems deposits invisible to low level planetologists don't see or can even access certain deposits a high level planetologist can see.
There was no direct increase in extraction yield that I am aware of. --------
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2010.05.21 08:23:00 -
[28]
Edited by: CCP Incognito on 21/05/2010 08:24:26
Originally by: Zedia Zhane
My bet is that the skillbooks get released as is on the 26th. CCP will hope that the Dev team will get them implemented and tested by June 8th. But that won't happen so they will continue to be obscure skills that do nothing at all.
Ill take that bet! how much do I win?
The two skills in question are used to refine your scanning results. What they do in piratical terms are make the scanning of the planet (the color overlay) more precise. With low skills you might see a red patch that covers about 30 deg of the planet, then as you trained the skills higher that red patch would contract until it is only a few degrees across. You now have a more accurate info on where a hot spot is.
Hope this helps.
PS. Sisi should have the new description on it.
----- I am a programmer, not a designer, all design comments are just speculation and have no grounding in fact! |
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.05.21 09:04:00 -
[29]
Could you also move all the PI skills into the PI market category? There is no sense in only two of them being there while three others are in science. And you don't have to care for the prerequesites. There are other categories where not all skills have the same attribute requirements, too! _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Estimated Prophet
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Posted - 2010.05.21 11:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS. Sisi should have the new description on it.
Not the current build (6.30.153725). Maybe the next one?
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