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Khasum
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Posted - 2010.05.17 04:26:00 -
[1]
Someone please explain to me the logic / balance behind these turrets requiring such massive amounts of power grid that you can't fit a full rack on a battleship, even with multiple PDU's. And then when you finally slap enough PDU's you realize two things, you still lack enough grid for a large rep and your fit is total fail regardless. I played around with all the other races / ships and their biggest power grid weapons and none of them run into the problem of lacking power grid. Like honestly it's bad enough lasers need to suck the living **** out of your ships capacitor but apparently I can't even fit 8 cap sucking behemoths. What gives?
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.05.17 04:42:00 -
[2]
They are there to fit a very specific role?
Also maybe you lack the skills to fit them properly?
It only takes me two rigs or two modules to fit a full rack of 8 on an apoc, and I'm not at all skilled for that... -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Khasum
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Posted - 2010.05.17 04:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Khasum on 17/05/2010 04:44:52 I'm using EFT with the "all skills to V" option. And you're proving my point, you need to sacrifice two lows or two rig slots to fit guns, when every other race's ships can fit their biggest guns without that kind of penalty. Also I'm fairly sure an apoc required 3x PDU II's to fit a full 8 tachyon II's.
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Brent Kung
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Posted - 2010.05.17 05:24:00 -
[4]
In practice only apocalypse battleships and nightmares use them. As for the lack of grid for an armour repairer, they are meant to be used as snipers and sniper bs need only a 1600mm plate and a dcu. Nightmares can use them because they can only fit 4 guns and they are usefull on missions due to the turret tracking bonus.
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Eri'kana Motugi
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Posted - 2010.05.17 05:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Khasum apoc required 3x PDU II's to fit a full 8 tachyon II's.
Their is your problem right there, use RCU's, not PDU's.
Also have to point out that tachs do a LOT more damage than their counterparts among the other races, which is why they have the fitting prob.
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GankuVerymuch
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Posted - 2010.05.17 05:40:00 -
[6]
Tachs are meant to shoot things from range in a fleet. A fleet has armor support therefore sacrificing tank for dps is a smart thing. Advanced weapon upgrades is a must. Elite cap control and elite fitting certificates are nice also.
With the range of tachs in theory anything coming close to you should be dead before they get close enough to make your lack of tank an issue. This is where Tank vs. Gank comes into effect.
Tachs also fit the Nightmare and Paladin to great effect.
If it's really that bad hook up with a pal and use remote rep setup on your tach monster and bulldoze crap. Remote rep Domi with salvage setup is good for this.
All races have this equivalent and they will usually need reactor control II's (not pdu's) to help with the fitting. The resulting firepower is SWEET though. Just don't get tackled.
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Brent Kung In practice only apocalypse battleships and nightmares use them.
And Paladins of course.
OP, not sure what you use them for but if it is pve: even an uncomplete rack of 6 or 7 on your ship can make some missions go faster compared to 8 mega pulse with radio's. It all comes down at which range you can start applying high damage crystals. I have missioned with an abbadon with an uncomplete rack of tachs for a long time. Help us to make parrots game related today! |
King Dave
Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: King Dave on 17/05/2010 06:53:43 Tachyon's are meant to be a tier above all the other gun types. 1400mm, 425mm railgun and mega beams are the "top range weapons for battleships." Tachyon's are simply in their own league which is meant to do more dps base than the other guns in every other gun in it's category.
The reason they have such stupid fitting requirements is because they would be significantly overpowered if you could you a full rack of them without fitting issues (which you can on a paladin/ nightmare). --------- "Evil Edna > just get director roles, put child **** in the corp bio and then petition ccp" |
Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2010.05.17 07:19:00 -
[9]
[Abaddon, Tachyon] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I
Bouncer II x3
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 07:45:00 -
[10]
In this game you have to make choices, if you want uber range and good dps at range you'll have to "bleed" elsewhere. Welcome to EVE. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.17 08:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Khasum I played around with all the other races / ships and their biggest power grid weapons and none of them run into the problem of lacking power grid.
that's because you used weapons that are comparable to the mega beam laser, not the tachy.
tachy's are a class of it's own, above the 425mm/1400mm tier. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 09:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Khasum Someone please explain to me the logic / balance behind these turrets requiring such massive amounts of power grid that you can't fit a full rack on a battleship, even with multiple PDU's. And then when you finally slap enough PDU's you realize two things, you still lack enough grid for a large rep and your fit is total fail regardless. I played around with all the other races / ships and their biggest power grid weapons and none of them run into the problem of lacking power grid. Like honestly it's bad enough lasers need to suck the living **** out of your ships capacitor but apparently I can't even fit 8 cap sucking behemoths. What gives?
Fit a rack of 425mms to a Rokh and tell me there are no issues.
And then compare the DPS.
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FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.17 09:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Khasum Someone please explain to me the logic / balance behind these turrets requiring such massive amounts of power grid that you can't fit a full rack on a battleship, even with multiple PDU's. And then when you finally slap enough PDU's you realize two things, you still lack enough grid for a large rep and your fit is total fail regardless. I played around with all the other races / ships and their biggest power grid weapons and none of them run into the problem of lacking power grid. Like honestly it's bad enough lasers need to suck the living **** out of your ships capacitor but apparently I can't even fit 8 cap sucking behemoths. What gives?
You just fit 7 of them to apoc with 1 RCU or ACR rig and still outrange and outdamage 8 megabeams |
Jitte
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Posted - 2010.05.17 22:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jitte on 17/05/2010 22:28:01
Originally by: Asuka Smith [Abaddon, Tachyon] Fit with tachyons and no cap mods.
That's not gonna work... Even with Radio you will cap out in a under 3 minutes just running the guns, let alone cycling the mwd... In fact, you will need at least 5 cap relays (or an injector) before you can even think about using high damage or TII ammo. The only way this is going to be usefull is with a personal guardian slave fused to it's behind or maybe for doing a hit and run snipe attack. (But wouldn't you be way better off with artillery for that?)
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Techno Panda
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Posted - 2010.05.17 22:40:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Techno Panda on 17/05/2010 22:45:14 Edited by: Techno Panda on 17/05/2010 22:42:58 My NM + Tachs = <3
But to answer the question, You get your drones to kill what you cannot hit, and whatever you can hit, dies really really fast.
Edit: With terribad skills like mine, Multi optimal is 40km... And with Multi L Alpha has hit 4k, and Navy Milti L alpha has hit 5k. They really shine when you get Faction guns.
Edit2: With the Paladin and the Nightmare since they only use 4 guns but they all do double the damage the 50% reduction in cap useage for Large energy turrets comes built in.
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Mike712
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Posted - 2010.05.18 00:51:00 -
[16]
Baddon only needs 2 ACR rigs to fit tachs, if you have AWU5:
[Abaddon, Sniper Baddon] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Apoc can fit all 8 tachs with the right fit too:
[Apocalypse, Tachyon Sniper] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactor Control Unit II
100MN MicroWarpdrive I Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Large Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Shield Maintenance Bot II x5 Warrior II x5
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.05.18 07:20:00 -
[17]
WTB 525mm Railguns with stupid fitting requirements, but dmg and range to match Tachs.
Seriously, that would be a huge boost to rails.
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Zewron
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.18 08:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Khasum Someone please explain to me the logic / balance behind these turrets
The logic is quite simple: Paladin.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.18 08:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Qui Shon WTB 525mm Railguns with stupid fitting requirements, but dmg and range to match Tachs.
Seriously, that would be a huge boost to rails.
1800mm artillery..... F%!@ YEAH ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.18 08:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Typhado3
Originally by: Qui Shon WTB 525mm Railguns with stupid fitting requirements, but dmg and range to match Tachs.
Seriously, that would be a huge boost to rails.
1800mm artillery..... F%!@ YEAH
So firing VWs isn't good enough any more, is it?! Now you have to start throwing family vans around? Bah! Bloody soccer moms sticking their noses in everything.
——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Aylara
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Posted - 2010.05.18 09:19:00 -
[21]
These implants might also help you with your fittings:
Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' PG2 (+1% PG) Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' PG4 (+3% PG) Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' PG8 (+5% PG)
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.05.18 11:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 18/05/2010 11:07:22
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Typhado3
Originally by: Qui Shon WTB 525mm Railguns with stupid fitting requirements, but dmg and range to match Tachs.
Seriously, that would be a huge boost to rails.
1800mm artillery..... F%!@ YEAH
So firing VWs isn't good enough any more, is it?! Now you have to start throwing family vans around? Bah! Bloody soccer moms sticking their noses in everything.
L ammo is hardly a VW. 0.025m3 is 25 liters. that's less than half a human. what 1400mm shoots are disks (1.53m3 area, up to 16cm thick, depending on propellant ratio), face forward. SPLAT! :)
edit: flying pancake comes to mind :D ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.05.18 12:31:00 -
[23]
Quote: L ammo is hardly a VW. 0.025m3 is 25 liters. that's less than half a human. what 1400mm shoots are disks (1.53m3 area, up to 16cm thick, depending on propellant ratio), face forward. SPLAT! :) edit: flying pancake comes to mind :D
So basically the Naglfar fires 3 1/2m wide nuclear shuriken. 4 at a time.
/me starts cross training _________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.18 13:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes L ammo is hardly a VW. 0.025m3 is 25 liters. that's less than half a human. what 1400mm shoots are disks (1.53m3 area, up to 16cm thick, depending on propellant ratio), face forward. SPLAT! :)
edit: flying pancake comes to mind :D
Inflatable VWs?
(No, I will not get the image of the Minnies firing rusty old cars at their opponents out of my mind.) ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Firkragg
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.18 13:57:00 -
[25]
fit 2 RCU2s. Then you can easily fit 8 tachys on an apoc. Not sure why you would want a large rep when using tachys. If your missioning fit megapulses on an apoc and some tracking comps and then you can shoot out to 40-50km with multifrequency and grape.
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Kara Valkyrien
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:03:00 -
[26]
A quad 3500mm siege artillery... That's firing four shells that are big as a bus... seriously.
Think how that would apply to real life, getting them to fire those shells out to 100km (ish) at blazing speed. Not to mention the manpower required to operate just one of those turrets.
God, I love EVE
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Ancy Denaries
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Posted - 2010.05.20 09:05:00 -
[27]
A Nightmare with a full rack of Tachyons does Megapulse damage at 50k. That's enough, imo :D ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog
Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Jagga Spikes L ammo is hardly a VW. 0.025m3 is 25 liters. that's less than half a human. what 1400mm shoots are disks (1.53m3 area, up to 16cm thick, depending on propellant ratio), face forward. SPLAT! :)
edit: flying pancake comes to mind :D
Inflatable VWs?
(No, I will not get the image of the Minnies firing rusty old cars at their opponents out of my mind.)
I belive the explanation for ammo size and barrel size disparities is that ammo only contains the warhead and that the rest is pulled out of a magic hat.
So for example a EMP L round for the 1400 would just contain: Personalised plates, fuzzy dice, car radio (for the EM).
while the rest of the materials (rusty VW) would be taken from elsewhere on the ship. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Typhado3 I belive the explanation for ammo size and barrel size disparities is that ammo only contains the warhead and that the rest is pulled out of a magic hat.
So for example a EMP L round for the 1400 would just contain: Personalised plates, fuzzy dice, car radio (for the EM).
while the rest of the materials (rusty VW) would be taken from elsewhere on the ship.
Sounds plausible enough. Duct-taping a DU warhead onto a VW sabot certainly sounds Minmatar enough. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.20 12:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
L ammo is hardly a VW. 0.025m3 is 25 liters. that's less than half a human. what 1400mm shoots are disks (1.53m3 area, up to 16cm thick, depending on propellant ratio), face forward. SPLAT! :)
edit: flying pancake comes to mind :D
Time to whip out my favorite picture again! This is a real 800mm shell. 1400mm or 3500mm would be significantly larger. My favorite theory for why they only take .025m3 is that they come dehydrated. Just add water before firing:
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