Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kuja900
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 08:11:00 -
[1]
I'm wondering to use hammerheads or hobgoblin (both t2) for level 4 missions with my drake. With a drake my drone bay can only fit 5 of one so which would yield a higher damage output, or perhaps a combination of the two?
|
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 09:31:00 -
[2]
hobgoblins for frigates. while hammerheads have higher dps on paper, they are slower moving. drake's launchers should take care of everything cruiser up. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 10:02:00 -
[3]
Heavy missiles deal with cruiser and larger without a hassle, so bring light drones to take out the frigs and destroyers. Also, use hornets (unless you're working for amarr).
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
|
Sinful Injustice
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 11:42:00 -
[4]
The drake only has a 25m drone bay, so you can only fit 5 lights in there anyway.
Trying to use 2 mediums and 1 light, or 1 medium and 3 lights, would just be a waste of potential firepower
|
Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 11:56:00 -
[5]
Hobgoblins, altough you didn't mention which rats are you killing. Nevertheless, most rats have at least a secondary weakness to thermal damage so hobgoblins are all-round the most effective choice if you don't feel like changing to rat specific drones every mission.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 12:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Teinyhr Hobgoblins, altough you didn't mention which rats are you killing. Nevertheless, most rats have at least a secondary weakness to thermal damage so hobgoblins are all-round the most effective choice if you don't feel like changing to rat specific drones every mission.
More rats have a lower kinetic resist than thermal (off the top of my head the only rats actually weakest to therm are mercs and rare few other with standard resists, which are weak to kinetic 2nd), and if kinetic resist is lower than thermal than kinetics are better despite the lower modifier. The difference can be up to 20% in some cases. Take into account the faster speed and better tracking of kinetics and you have a better overall drone, IMO.
Of course thermals do significantly more damage to anything weakest to EM, and I swap them out whenever I need to... extra damage is extra damage.
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
|
Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 12:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Wet Ferret More rats have a lower kinetic resist than thermal (off the top of my head the only rats actually weakest to therm are mercs and rare few other with standard resists, which are weak to kinetic 2nd), and if kinetic resist is lower than thermal than kinetics are better despite the lower modifier. The difference can be up to 20% in some cases. Take into account the faster speed and better tracking of kinetics and you have a better overall drone, IMO.
Of course thermals do significantly more damage to anything weakest to EM, and I swap them out whenever I need to... extra damage is extra damage.
Well if you really want to nitpick, okay. But this is one of those old things circulating bios: Guristas - Kinetic & Thermal Serpentis - Thermal Mordus - Thermal & Kinetic Blood - EM & Thermal Sansha - EM & Thermal Angel - Explosive & Thermal Mercenary - Thermal
I believe this has not changed. Most rats are still vulnerable to thermal damage, and as the OP is using a Drake and presumably kinetic missiles...
|
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 12:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Teinyhr .. the OP is using a Drake and presumably kinetic missiles...
Presumably using kinetics due to the Drake's bonuses ;-)
Anwyay what's wrong with Warrior IIs?!
|
J Shaft
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 13:31:00 -
[9]
Hobgoblins for most NPCs, Warriors for Angels and Minmatar and not sure about Thukker (i think they perform about the same).
Best regards, J. |
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 13:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 19/05/2010 14:01:09
Originally by: Teinyhr
Well if you really want to nitpick, okay. But this is one of those old things circulating bios: Guristas - Kinetic & Thermal Serpentis - Thermal Mordus - Thermal & Kinetic Blood - EM & Thermal Sansha - EM & Thermal Angel - Explosive & Thermal Mercenary - Thermal
I believe this has not changed. Most rats are still vulnerable to thermal damage, and as the OP is using a Drake and presumably kinetic missiles...
NPC resists haven't changed but that list is wrong. Those "&" should be ">" first of all, no NPC has the same resist in two different slots. Also Serpentis has only one frigate that I know of with thermal resist being lowest (I couldn't even find it when I looked in the databases). Then it would look like this (lowest > second lowest).
Guristas - Kinetic > Thermal Serpentis - Kinetic > Thermal Mordus - Kinetic > Thermal Blood - EM > Thermal Sansha - EM > Thermal Angel - Explosive > Kinetic Mercenary - Thermal > Kinetic
then there's a few missing types
Gallente - Kinetic > Thermal Amarr - EM > Thermal Minmatar - Explosive > Kinetic Caldari - Kinetic > Thermal EoM - Kinetic > Thermal Drone - EM > Thermal
You can head on over to EVEinfo or elfarto npc database and check these out yourself if you like.
That's 8 npc 'factions' you'll do more damage to with kinetic. Only 5 for therm. I suppose they're about even if you don't take the 4 empire factions into account (5 v 4 respectively) but, still, overall kinetic has more targets better suited for it.
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
|
|
Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 14:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wet Ferret You can head on over to EVEinfo or elfarto npc database and check these out yourself if you like.
That's 8 npc 'factions' you'll do more damage to with kinetic. Only 5 for therm. I suppose they're about even if you don't take the 4 empire factions into account (5 v 4 respectively) but, still, overall kinetic has more targets better suited for it.
Well that's just the kind of min/maxing I wanted to get away from by stopping playing WoW. Those drones will be used against frigates. It might maybe take 2 seconds more to kill one, maybe 4 seconds more for an elite frigate. I don't really care if the gain is that minimal. Maybe you do and hey, I'm cool with that. Just sayin'.
|
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 15:17:00 -
[12]
Warriors are fastest & track better, pretty useful for some of the missions full of small squishy ships. Having just spent 3 days blitzing l3s for standings in a drake, half the time I just painted whatever ships I could target & shot 'em with heavies anyway, faster than just idling while the drones killed the little stuff. Painted frigates go splat pretty fast.
L4s you probably won't have room for a painter, just take anything that isn't an Amarr drone.
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 15:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Whitehound on 19/05/2010 15:20:41 When the drone bay is limited to the bandwidth do I choose to mix 3 thermal with 2 kinetic drones.
A ship database tells you the exact percentages of the ships' resistances. When people say to do a specific damage type does this not always apply to the drones' damage type, because these have a damage modifier on top of their base damage. A hobgoblin deals 10% more damage than a hornet.
One can usually go with the recommended damage type if the drones are used against weak frigates and cruisers. When the resistances of the ships get higher and the differences in the resistances get smaller do the gallentean drones win.
When you see a lot of Dire Guristas or Sansha Loyalists (for example), which all have high resistances, do you want to use the gallentean drones. Here is an example: Dire Pithi Destructor
The kinetic resistances of the Dire Pithi Destructor are just 8% lower than its thermal resistance. A hobgoblin will therefore do 2% more damage than a hornet even when the recommended damage type is kinetic.
A second factor is the drones' speed. If the targets are far spread out then the speed of a drone becomes more important than the amount of damage they deal.
Some missions are just really bad for drones as they get targeted again and again. It is then a good idea to choose drones that deal a good amount of damage as well as have a high resistance against the damage dealt. --
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 18:16:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tippia on 19/05/2010 18:17:08
Originally by: Whitehound The kinetic resistances of the Dire Pithi Destructor are just 8% lower than its thermal resistance. A hobgoblin will therefore do 2% more damage than a hornet even when the recommended damage type is kinetic.
No.
Hobgoblin II: 15 + 1.92 + 0.28 = ~8.1 base damage Hornet II: 15 + 1.74 + 0.36 = ~9.4 base damage.
You forget that the % differences in resists are worth more the higher up you are on the scale, so you can never compare absolute difference in percentage values. At this level, in absolute terms, the 8% difference in resists (72% compared to 64%) equates to 29% more damage getting through against the lower resist, which more than makes up for the 10% difference in damage modifier.
In addition, the Hornet tracks better and thus score higher-quality hits at that higher damage. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
ChrisIsherwood
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 19:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Teinyhr
Well that's just the kind of min/maxing I wanted to get away from by stopping playing WoW.
I would expect you shall find much more min/maxing in EVE than in W*W. In part, because EVE is more complicated.
Certainly the expectation is you check eveagents before each mission, fly somewhere and swap out at least ammo and resistances. No convenient omnitanks with IFs. A number of posters will suggest having multiple ships for actually doing the missions. In addition to specialized ships for probing and salvaging.
In that context, swapping drones, while a PITA, isn't that big of increment.
|
Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 19:49:00 -
[16]
I used to carry a set of lights and a set of medium. I have been carrying only medium for a while now. Medium eat frigates just fine in L4 so no point carrying both sets. I have 1.7 mil skill points in drones so that might be why.
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tippia No.
Hobgoblin II: 15 + 1.92 + 0.28 = ~8.1 base damage Hornet II: 15 + 1.74 + 0.36 = ~9.4 base damage.
You forget that the % differences in resists are worth more the higher up you are on the scale, so you can never compare absolute difference in percentage values.
You are right! Thanks for correcting me. --
|
Nareg Maxence
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:33:00 -
[18]
Garde II obviously!! oh wait, you're using a Drake..
|
Misanthra
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 23:01:00 -
[19]
+1 to 5 lights on the drake. They kill small stuff while the HM's kill larger stuff to work the mission from both ends at same time.
Mediums are can be kind of okay for frig work but prefer the fast moving lights. If in empire some missions will dump you into a crap storm, any jammer/scrammer frigs you want dead quicker to either start killing stuff or warp out.
I usually went hob's. Run warriors now, but belt rat in null sec and the damage hit offset by giving pointy player flown frigates if jumped worst case something to think about. If partial to following up on kill rights flippers/looters give you....fly warrior II, they are the pvp choice for drones.
|
Zachary Sikorsky
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 10:09:00 -
[20]
Well the list isn't conclusive. Running against angels in the all so popular AE you'll notice that all frigates have great shields and EM-resists, why TH > EM against Angel frigates - and that's what you'll use your lights on.
|
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zachary Sikorsky Well the list isn't conclusive. Running against angels in the all so popular AE you'll notice that all frigates have great shields and EM-resists, why TH > EM against Angel frigates - and that's what you'll use your lights on.
Angels have the same resists on shield and armor, and with almost no exceptions the best drone to use will be explosive, then kinetic, then therm. Even on the frig with one of the lowest overall resistances (gisti outlaw, 2% exp, 12% kin, 22% therm) this holds true because the resist differential is still greater than the damage difference of the drones (which is 9.6%).
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
|
Hanneshannes
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:31:00 -
[22]
I like to use Thermal drones as well, mainly because, as was pointed out earlier, most NPCs are weak to them and I'm lazy and cba to switch drones every mission or so.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:50:00 -
[23]
Tbh, I just solved this problem by having different ships for different missions.- Angels → TP+Web Gila with explosive drones (the short range of the Angel rats means the lower drone control and targeting range on the Gila isn't an issue). Also allows rage and fury missiles to hit with full force.
- Sansha → Active-armour/AB Ishtar with thermal drones and EM sentries (some of the battleships like to beyond what Garde can comfortably hit).
- Gurista/Serpentis → PST Ishtar with kinetic/thermal drone mix (the sig bloom from the shield mods is counteracted by the higher native resists, speed takes care of the rest).
No need to fiddle about with refits û just pick up the ready-made tool for the job. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Zachary Sikorsky
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 16:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Zachary Sikorsky Well the list isn't conclusive. Running against angels in the all so popular AE you'll notice that all frigates have great shields and EM-resists, why TH > EM against Angel frigates - and that's what you'll use your lights on.
Angels have the same resists on shield and armor, and with almost no exceptions the best drone to use will be explosive, then kinetic, then therm. Even on the frig with one of the lowest overall resistances (gisti outlaw, 2% exp, 12% kin, 22% therm) this holds true because the resist differential is still greater than the damage difference of the drones (which is 9.6%).
Ah right you are. I was of course thinking about angel mission drones, like the Angel Viper and the Angel Webifyer. When packing for AE i throw in a few hobgobs for them (the only frigate sized) and Berserkers for the rest.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |