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Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.06.26 23:41:00 -
[1]
Everyone knows about the dilemma concerning putting a bounty on someone's head: You put on a significant bounty, the one you want dead gets into a newbie ship, has a friend podkill him after he buys a nice clone and they split *your* money. A solution I thought up would go thus: 1. A new option is added, giving the person who wants to place the bounty gets a list from CONCORD on which ship(s) the person they want to place the bounty on currently owns. I know everyone might be seeing an exploit in this as you could potentially find out what ships anyone has, but it could fit in in a roleplaying scenario. Since you can only place a bounty on someone with -1.0 or lower security, it would naturally follow that CONCORD would have a file on that person due to their poor behavior in the past, and this file would contain the current known ships that person uses. 2. The bounty can be changed from ship to ship as long as the bounty setter is checking in to manually switch it if his intended target has upgraded. 3. The payout for the bounty is then only given if the person who has the bounty on their head has had the ship the bounty setter set destroyed. 4. If the selected ship is destroyed by some NPC entity, the person who set the bounty will then get an email from CONCORD telling them they will have the option to hold their bounty amount in abeyance until such a time as a reasonable ship can be selected as the target of the bounty money.
So... any thoughts or questiosn? --------------- I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.06.27 08:11:00 -
[2]
not sure I like this one. What if I saw, for example, Mr. Axelay, in a shuttle and took it upon myself to kill him, I'd want the bounty.
As long as there is a list of bounty collectors being kept, it can be tracked. It's not something you should affect the game to prevent. If anyone does try this, they will be on record, and can be checked for known acquaintances. And then all parties involved can have their skills neutralized. .
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Dan Forever
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Posted - 2003.06.27 10:38:00 -
[3]
They still have to fork out for the clone, so that exploit is only worth it if the bounty is really high.
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Koda
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Posted - 2003.06.27 14:11:00 -
[4]
How about jacking up the price on clones for wanted people? Fix the clone price based on the amount of bounty. It would remove the financial incentive to have a friend pod you.
You could RP it by claiming increased risk to the cloners for dealing with wanted criminals, kinda like mob doctors.
Edited by: Koda on 27/06/2003 14:19:03 --------------
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Li'l Mol
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Posted - 2003.06.27 15:59:00 -
[5]
how about just not allowing players with neg standing to buy ligit clone, only black market ones, which are 100% reliable. tis the price you pay..
or only allow clones to be purchased from 1.0 stations, then neg standing players would not be able to dock at these stations to buy them.
______________
'When all your wishes are granted... Many of your dreams will be destroyed...' ____________________________ |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.06.27 16:20:00 -
[6]
Negative sec players shouldnt be able to collect NPC or PC bounties.
Bounty-hunters should need to be licensed and positive sec.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.06.27 20:45:00 -
[7]
They could just use alt to get around neg sec rating.
Affecting clone price/availability probably be the only way.
The clone cost for said pirate (to match his skill level) would be a minimum of 10% OVER the bounty.
That way there would be incentive for players to poor money into posting bounties as they are doing two things. Making the pirate have to be exceedingly careful and making bounty hunting something that could actually be profitable.
As it stands someone in an ibis could make more money mining scordite than a well trained bounty hunter.
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Li'l Mol
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:25:00 -
[8]
but you cant buy a clone on an alt character for your high bounty one, or am i missing your point ?
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'When all your wishes are granted... Many of your dreams will be destroyed...' ____________________________ |
Violence Reborn
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Posted - 2003.06.28 11:39:00 -
[9]
When a neg faction is killed, his clone should be arrested and placed in prison for 50 years. Or Deleted. With the option of items belonging to him or her being given to his/her victims.
With Exception. Organised Corp v Corp Combat.
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Karmask Shard
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Posted - 2003.06.28 13:11:00 -
[10]
The biggest problem that people seem to have with the bounty system (as far as I can see) is that the hunted individual can simply get knocked off by an acquaintance and split the reward.
Suggestions (comments, please):
1) Prevent transactions with anyone you collect a bounty from recently? 2) Prevent transactions with anyone who had their bounty collected recently? 3) Track all player<->player money/goods transactions involving wanted criminals? 4) Impact security rating of non-criminals trading with wanted criminals?
1) Prevent financial transactions with people you collect bounties from recently? Rationale: - prevent oft-mentioned bounty exploit, where a bounty's friend kills them off and splits the reward - allow certain amount of time to pass before you are allowed to trade with this person again - say, a month wait, to prevent people from waiting it out, and going ahead with the same exploit anyway Problem: - easily circumvented by involving a 3rd-party - Person A kills Person B and collects Person B's bounty - Person A gives money to Person C, who otherwise isn't involved - Person C gives money to Person B
2) Prevent financial transactions with anyone who had their bounty collected recently? Rationale: - prevent circumvention of suggestion 1 by involving a 3rd party Problem: - they're no longer wanted criminals - anyone trying to move away from being criminal would be unable to financially interact with other people - would make their lives more difficult than remaining a wanted criminal - the life of a criminal should be MORE difficult, not less
3)Track all player<->player transactions involving criminals? Rationale: - allow bounty hunters to see where a criminal is active by receiving alerts regarding their money trail - who is involved in the transaction - what money/goods were involved - the location of each individual involved
4) Impact security rating of people trading with wanted criminals? Rationale: - aiding a criminal makes a person a facilitator of criminal activity Problems: - should this affect criminals trying to buy/sell items on the market? - allow criminals to buy from others on market? - give people warning when buying/trading items from a criminal? - impact their security rating if they do? ie. buying stolen goods, or products of criminal enterprise
I'm not saying these suggestions are great, or even necessarily good. Just curious to see what other people have to add or suggest.
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Tor
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:47:00 -
[11]
I may not make myself the most popular person by saying this, but I think that clones should be:
(a) Very, very expensive.
and
(b) Only available to law abiding citizens.
A lot of tension is lost by the fact that you can prevent your character from ever really "dying". People should be really afraid of jeopardising their "life" withing the EVE universe. This would make a career as a pirate very exciting but inherently dangerous, and a career as a 1.0sec miner boring but safe as houses.
It would also put people off asking their mates to kill them for the reward because they wouldn't be around to spend it ;-)
TD
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:19:00 -
[12]
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Bounty fraud is mostly a myth.
Seriously now, do you think Setec or j0rt or Lord Zap is going to give up their limelight for a couple measily million isk? Any of the m0o or Red Corsairs or M3G4 gracing the bounty list? No. Regardless of if they're 'real pirates' or just 'griefers' the notoriety appeals to both groups and they won't give that up without the best of a fight. Maybe for a few billion...
And there's the amount of work needed to drive up a bounty and survive long enough to collect it. Do you honestly think that even 10% of Lord Zap's 8 million isk bounty came from just podding newbies? You have to **** off real people before real isk starts flowing onto your bounty. And those real people are just as likely to collect whatever bounty you have as they have real power.
People just don't want to take the risk of going after the large bounties. So they create this myth of someone like j0rt offing themselves to collect the bounty to explain away why his bounty isn't 90 million isk.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:27:00 -
[13]
Jash your missing the point. Do you really think it profitable to go after jort for 7mil? Of course it isn't. More than likely if you had a big enough force to do it you would still lose a couple ships. The lost time would in itself equate millions.
If bounties of 50 mil + started being posted then that would act as more incentive for bounty hunters.
It's two issues in reality. POTENTIAL fraud, AND making bounty hunting worthwhile.
If the allowance for fraud is there it WILL be used. For you to deny that or reason otherwise is simply not understanding human nature.
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Ilia Volyova
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Posted - 2003.06.29 12:01:00 -
[14]
Just make it impossible for low sec chars to buy clones in 0.5 sec or higher areas and don't sell clones better then B in the areas 0.4 or lower.
A wanted criminal cannot go to the hospital to remove a bullet, he has to go to a shady backyard surgeon...
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Restiana Hastura
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Posted - 2003.06.30 07:50:00 -
[15]
There's a very simple way to solve the bounty fraud problem, and that is to make sure that a person always loses money if they have a friend kill them. This could be done as follows:
1. The game figures out how much it cost the victim to get blown up. The cost of a ship is the prorated amount that was paid to insure it, plus the part not covered by insurance. The cost of being pod killed is the value of the clone. (Bounties should be paid for each event.) Call this true cost X.
2. The game multiplies X by .75 to get Y. This step means that a pirate will lose money if they try to kill themselves just to clear off the bounty and make themselves less of a target. It's still an option, but it will cost them.
3. Y is the maximum amount that the game will pay out to the person who killed the pirate. If the bounty is greater than Y, the game subtracts Y from the bounty and leaves the rest there for the next bounty hunters.
For example, if a pirate has a 10 mil bounty on him, and he gets pod-killed with a clone that costs 4 mil, the game will pay out 3 mil to the killer and the pirate will now have a 7 mil bounty on him.
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Cezanne
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Posted - 2003.06.30 12:32:00 -
[16]
Restiana Hastura - Very nice idea, if kinda comperlicated. :P
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.06.30 15:39:00 -
[17]
I think another good way would be to make a pirate have to match the bounty amount to get the skills points back. e.g. Pirate X has a 10M bounty on him, and has 1M skill points. If he pays back 10M after getting killed he keeps 100% of his skill points protected by his clone, 9M and he keeps 90%, etc - if he happens to be broke then he loses the lot.
Currently the bounty system is a joke - as evidenced by the tiny bounties on the top pirates.
Have fun Finn |
Axelay
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Posted - 2003.07.01 06:03:00 -
[18]
Killing yourself for the bounty is... well....
Just lame...
Well, maybe Zap... ::evil laugh:: _____ m0o
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Amicus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 22:24:00 -
[19]
I have posted on this topic before in another section, but since it is being discussed again . . .
Jash Illian is right there is not much incentive for bounty fraud with such low bounties. There is also not much incentive for bounty hunters. If there were higher bounties (e.g., 50+ million), the likelihood of bounty fraud would increase. However, no one will put that kind of money up for a bounty, because of the likelihood of bounty fraud. If pirates enjoy the reputation that comes from high bounties, then they too should be for bounty reform.
I agree with those who suggest putting a limit on advanced clones for bounty targets. Charge a processing fee on advanced clones for those who have negative security rating (e.g., -5.0 or lower) and a bounty on their head. Set the amount of the fee at least as high as the amount of any bounty on the hunted's head at the time of death. Call the fee a ôbribery feeö (or such), reflecting the cost of obtaining an advanced clone for such a notorious criminal through back alley channels (Koda's "mob doctors"). The fee can be collected from money in the hunted's bank account. If there is not enough money in the hunted's account at time of death, then he or she will be limited to a basic clone.
Such a system will make bounty fraud uneconomical and put real bite into bounties. More people will put money into bounties, knowing that the hunted will have some real risk of harm from collection of the bounty. With such a system, pirates get more advertising, bounty payers get what they paid for, and bounty hunters get real profits. A win-win situation for all. ;-)
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Zooron
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Posted - 2003.12.16 16:47:00 -
[20]
implants cost isk pirates hav implants too train faster so the bounty would have too be like over 40 mil to be worth the hastle
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Daehkthar Raehm
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Posted - 2003.12.16 23:41:00 -
[21]
Well 5 1/2 months ago (when this thread was posted) implants were not around. Good job finding a really old topic and bringin it back to the top.
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EXZODIER
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Posted - 2003.12.17 01:25:00 -
[22]
why not just stop any 1 with a -5 sec r8 getting a good clone or charge a hire amount each time they get a new 1
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toaster
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Posted - 2003.12.17 17:17:00 -
[23]
Quote: Negative sec players shouldnt be able to collect NPC or PC bounties.
Bounty-hunters should need to be licensed and positive sec.
I see your logic, but PKing someone gives you a -2.4 right off the bad so bounty hunters would always have negative secs if hunting pirates in empire space. ------------------------------------------------
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.12.18 05:30:00 -
[24]
Does podkilling someone with a -5.0 or lower SS give you a security hit? I thought it wasn't supposed to since -5.0 is KOS to Concord?
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Adamah
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Posted - 2003.12.18 08:38:00 -
[25]
Quote: Jash your missing the point. Do you really think it profitable to go after jort for 7mil? Of course it isn't. More than likely if you had a big enough force to do it you would still lose a couple ships. The lost time would in itself equate millions.
If bounties of 50 mil + started being posted then that would act as more incentive for bounty hunters.
It's two issues in reality. POTENTIAL fraud, AND making bounty hunting worthwhile.
If the allowance for fraud is there it WILL be used. For you to deny that or reason otherwise is simply not understanding human nature.
Um...I think he hit the point on the head. A real pirate wants a bounty. It's a pride thing. And a real bounty hunter will want to take on a good pirate regardless of the bounty. If you are in bounty hunting for the money you should probaly go pick up some miners and set up a date with a roid.
Bounty hunting and pirating is done for the fun of pvp, not the money involved. If a player with a bounty gets podded by a friend for the money they just disgrace themselves and are not worthy to have a bounty on their head.
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.12.18 11:27:00 -
[26]
Quote: Um...I think he hit the point on the head. A real pirate wants a bounty. It's a pride thing. And a real bounty hunter will want to take on a good pirate regardless of the bounty. If you are in bounty hunting for the money you should probaly go pick up some miners and set up a date with a roid.
No IMHO a REAL pirate would hate the fact he has a bounty because it makes his profession a lot harder when everybody warps to safe bookmarks when somebody who has a big bounty and is on the most wanted list enters the system.
It are the people who are only after PvP and don't care about the money anymore (which I suspect is the majority of the known pirates) or the pure griefers. --- soonÖ |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.12.18 11:42:00 -
[27]
You're forgetting this thing called "Implants". Unless someone puts 50m on me, I won't be blowing myself up.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Ortt
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Posted - 2003.12.20 04:27:00 -
[28]
Yeh, this thread is a rehash of one that went on 3 patches ago....
CCP's reaction
a big YAWN
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White Tiger
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Posted - 2003.12.21 13:17:00 -
[29]
It a shame they yawned because currently there is no real consequence for being a pirate.
Must be a Scandanavian thing....
White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group
"The Only Easy Day was Yesterday." |
WD40
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Posted - 2003.12.22 12:43:00 -
[30]
It may not solve everything, but something simple may help, how about multiply the cost of a clone by your sec rating as soon as you drop below -1.0
If a pirate with -10.0 sec status wants a A+ class clone it will cost over 10m isk. If thats not enought, try multiplying sec status x 5 x cost of clone, for an A+ with -10.0 that will be over 50m isk. You could take it further....
Simple, easy to implement and expensive for pirates?
WD40
------------------------------------------ Lubricating the galaxy, one ship at a time |
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