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Jita Lord
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Posted - 2010.05.20 20:20:00 -
[1]
I am just wondering what the approximate Omni tank and DPS is need for doing different Classes of WHÆs. I know a lot depends, but just looking for an average number to tank/gank for a Drake/Tengu
C1: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C2: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C3: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C4: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C5: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C6: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
I understand that anything over a C3 get almost impossible to solo. But this will be helpful for how many ships are needed to remote rep and what not. Thanks!
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JJ Redic
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.05.21 02:24:00 -
[2]
Edited by: JJ Redic on 21/05/2010 02:32:40 Edited by: JJ Redic on 21/05/2010 02:31:45 C1: Easily solo-able by a HAC or BC.
C2: Doable by a HAC or BC, better to bring in a friend.
C3: Minimum suggested gang of 2x HAC/BC and 1x Logistics, alternatively 2x tanked BS.
C4: 5-8 man remote rep BS with 1x ECM support. High skilled gang can be 3-6 people, RR BS, logistics, CS all viable.
C5: 15 man remote rep BS fleet with ECM support. High skilled gang can be 4-7 people in RR BS, 1 armor tanked ECM Scorp recommended.
C6: 20+ man remote rep BS fleet with ECM support, these complexes are no joke, best to attempt on test server before live with your fleet.
High skilled fleet can be 7 people minimum, all ships must have 50K+ effective armor HP, 1-2 armor tanked ECM Scorps minimum, Damnation with all 3 armor gang-mods mandatory.
Info from here.
Quote: Anything over a C3 is impossible to solo.
Fixed.
DPS is whatever you can muster after you achieve 70-80% omni-tank.
My current C3 WH Drake: [Drake, Ulysses S Grant] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hobgoblin I x5
76k EHP 65/72/79/82 96hp/s Peak Recharge 250dps w/o drones T1 drones instead of T2 due to cost, and the fact that Sleepers HATE my drones.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.05.21 04:28:00 -
[3]
6-7 people in capital ship (dread for dps, carrier for rr) in class 6 wormhole is make ~4bil per person depending on how active everyone is. That is how do them to make isk (lol 25 bs fleet).
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Jita Lord
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Posted - 2010.05.21 04:34:00 -
[4]
Right..... But I would like some numbers. I know they wont be exact, but something that will help me plan. I mean I can go into a C2 in a BC with 600 DPS and 120 tank... Will that work?
Averages is what I am looking for.
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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
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Posted - 2010.05.21 04:49:00 -
[5]
C1: Tank Needed:4567 DPS Required to do sites:5678
C2: Tank Needed:345 DPS Required to do sites:12
C3: Tank Needed:12343 DPS Required to do sites:3456
C4: Tank Needed: 2134 DPS Required to do sites:123
C5: Tank Needed:34567 DPS Required to do sites:1234
C6: Tank Needed:123 DPS Required to do sites:12
There's you some numbers, they are probably just as accurate as anything anyone else will give you. I would like to say people would know not to ask this question by now, but hey, I wanted the same thing when I first started. Not trying to be rude now Jita, but nothing anyone can give you will matter. It depends on your skill, your ship fitting, and how you fly. Also a lot on resistances since sleepers do omni damage, oh yea, and WH effects. Your tank will also depend on how much DPS you put out, and vise versa (more dps = less tank needed), plus a couple other random factors I'm not remembering at the moment. You simply won't get hard numbers for this kind of thing.
Maybe JJ Redic could go solo a WH with 150 DPS tank, putting out 800 DPS. My skills won't let me fit the same ship, so I need 400 tank and 300 DPS, I kill them slower so I can't use "the best defense is a good offense" strategy.
What JJ told you is more or less right for anyone, but that's the best you are going to get.
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Destroperuk
DUCKWIG FLEET INC Auctoritas Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.21 05:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: JJ Redic
Quote: Anything over a C3 is impossible to solo.
Fixed.
This is not really correct. Most c4 sites can be pretty reliably solo'd in a Tengu.
Also, the figures on c5s are hardly correct. I can do all c5 anomalies alone with no major difficulty using 4 accounts, and all of them except for one have between 8-11m SP.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.05.21 07:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Destroperuk This is not really correct. Most c4 sites can be pretty reliably solo'd in a Tengu.
Also, the figures on c5s are hardly correct. I can do all c5 anomalies alone with no major difficulty using 4 accounts, and all of them except for one have between 8-11m SP.
I can do all w-space sites multiboxing 4 accounts, though a little more SP speeds things up.
Say, which system are you in? Maybe we could meet up and have some fun? That is to say, someone multiboxing sites alone is easy pickings for any half-assed pvp gang that happens to spot you.
I'd say if you really try you can probably solo some C5 sites as well. It won't be efficient, but I think it's doable. Think I'll give it a go one of these days, just to see if possible.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.21 08:25:00 -
[8]
You need carriers and dreads to do C6 sites.
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Uncle Lim
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Posted - 2010.05.21 08:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Uncle Lim on 21/05/2010 08:32:55
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You need carriers and dreads to do C6 sites.
No you don't. In fact, warping in carriers and dreads will cause even more advanced sleeper battleships to drop on you and you will die in a fire unless you're prepared or did it deliberately for additional reward.
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Christian Schneider
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Posted - 2010.05.21 12:08:00 -
[10]
this golem has enough defence to tank every c6 sleeper site (you need a crystal set and a vulture for boosting):
[Golem, lol] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Ogre II x3
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.05.21 12:28:00 -
[11]
Christian your fit is fail.
Not even going to check the tank, because it doesn't matter as you don't have the range, even with Javs to hit Wardens, be they Awakened or Sleepless. Not to mention Keeper BS's.
And you won't be able to kill the frigs either.
Also having a Vulture in gang means you're not Solo anymore.
You have failed the challenge. Try again.
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Christian Schneider
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Posted - 2010.05.21 13:08:00 -
[12]
i think i didn't say something about solo or about having enough dps to actually clear the site in a reasonable amount of time. i just said it has enough defence to tank every possible sleeper wave in a c6 system.
if you remove the vulture it still can tank most of the c6 sleeper sites.
for clearing sleeper sites in a reasonable amount of time you need to use two or three golems. the low slot cap mods need to be replaced with dmg mods and the empty high slots need to be fitted with cap transfers. one golem needs cruise missiles. if you have a vulture on top of those golems you can even fit one or two target painter on each golem.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.05.21 13:28:00 -
[13]
Actually to do it in a reasonable time with a handful of ships, you need different ships entirely, not Golems.
Btw you wouldn't happen to be from Minmatar research something or other corp? 'Cause we busted a 5 Golem gang of theirs once, fit along the lines you just said, in a C6 site. Was some really sweet loot too.
The challenge (set by me just now ;) is to solo (as in one single ship, no boosters, certainly no RR, no nothing helping) the most difficult w-space site. How much can one ship do? I'm asking.
I would guess a Strange or Mirror could be possible. Hmm, a project for the quiet summer months!
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cbkilla
Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.21 15:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You need carriers and dreads to do C6 sites.
This is false. A gang of 10 with the right ships can do c6's as long as you know what you are doing.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.21 17:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Uncle Lim Edited by: Uncle Lim on 21/05/2010 08:32:55
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You need carriers and dreads to do C6 sites.
No you don't. In fact, warping in carriers and dreads will cause even more advanced sleeper battleships to drop on you and you will die in a fire unless you're prepared or did it deliberately for additional reward.
So you agree?
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Uncle Lim
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Posted - 2010.05.21 18:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: Uncle Lim Edited by: Uncle Lim on 21/05/2010 08:32:55
Originally by: Nareg Maxence You need carriers and dreads to do C6 sites.
No you don't. In fact, warping in carriers and dreads will cause even more advanced sleeper battleships to drop on you and you will die in a fire unless you're prepared or did it deliberately for additional reward.
So you agree?
Tentatively. |
Stovo kor
Firebird Squadron
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Posted - 2010.05.22 11:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Stovo kor on 22/05/2010 11:05:34
Disclaimer : Possibility to solo is there for most wormhole but obviously that means your pimped out. Likely-hood to slip up while solo and get ganked at some point is high. ( unless u have spider sense ) Tip : Irony is strong here. Pay close attention to what the CCRES guys are saying. They are not blowing hot air. Most of the epic ganks in WH space are perpetrated by them.
C1: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C2: Tank Needed: DPS Required to do sites:
C3: Tank Needed: Around 550 tank ( Combat site ) - 900 ( Mag site ) DPS Required to do sites: The combats can be done with solo Drake. ( Not efficient ) Starts being efficient at 3 Drakes. T3 soloing makes Drakes cry
C4: Tank Needed: Solo ( semi- pimp ) T3 or RR gang DPS Required to do sites: One T3 ship can break the sleeper RR
C5: Tank Needed: Depends on site : Do the math ( majority dmg is is from BS ) Sleepless Guardian - 625 dps Sleepless Keeper - 550 dps Sleepless Warden - 350 dps Sleepless Sentinel - 450 dps
DPS Required to do sites: Four Tech 3 ships can break the tank. Much faster speed at 7 or 8 ships. Possible 12 mins to clear each site
Can confirm its possible to solo in full pimp subcap ( this is however basically begging to be ganked )
C6: Tank Needed: We don't get these connections often but some of the easier C6 sites seem comparable to C5. Cept don't really want to bring large signature ships in here. DPS Required to do sites: I reckon 10 ships for efficiency
** You don't need caps for C6. You use caps to make ISK
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Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 17:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 22/05/2010 17:25:59
Originally by: Stovo kor Tip : Irony is strong here. Pay close attention to what the CCRES guys are saying. They are not blowing hot air. Most of the epic ganks in WH space are perpetrated by them.
C6: Tank Needed: We don't get these connections often but some of the easier C6 sites seem comparable to C5. Cept don't really want to bring large signature ships in here. DPS Required to do sites: I reckon 10 ships for efficiency
** You don't need caps for C6. You use caps to make ISK
It's great to know we're not losing our reputation out here. Keep up the good work soloing L4s and 5s and farming with caps. We love you all for the epic kills ;) (Not directed at the quoted individual. Just w-space residents in general.)
Caps are generally used in C6s to spawn extra BSes for people who only farm their home system's sites/anoms with battleship class ships. We can't feed >200 members in our home system so we don't use that particular tactic. However, we do occasionally use them to farm other corps' capitals.
For anyone interested in C6s: If any of you ever want a challenge then go into a magnetar system and run some Unsecured Core Emergence sites. I will warn you: the last two waves are deadly. If you can pull one of those off without losses (we do, although we don't normally take the time to scan them down outside magnetar systems), then you have officially won EVE PVE and if you can pull them off properly. We won't do them with a fleet of less than 15 DPS. ** Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated |
madamtrader
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Posted - 2010.05.22 18:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kassa Daito Edited by: Kassa Daito on 22/05/2010 17:25:59
Originally by: Stovo kor Tip : Irony is strong here. Pay close attention to what the CCRES guys are saying. They are not blowing hot air. Most of the epic ganks in WH space are perpetrated by them.
C6: Tank Needed: We don't get these connections often but some of the easier C6 sites seem comparable to C5. Cept don't really want to bring large signature ships in here. DPS Required to do sites: I reckon 10 ships for efficiency
** You don't need caps for C6. You use caps to make ISK
It's great to know we're not losing our reputation out here. Keep up the good work soloing L4s and 5s and farming with caps. We love you all for the epic kills ;) (Not directed at the quoted individual. Just w-space residents in general.)
Caps are generally used in C6s to spawn extra BSes for people who only farm their home system's sites/anoms with battleship class ships. We can't feed >200 members in our home system so we don't use that particular tactic. However, we do occasionally use them to farm other corps' capitals.
For anyone interested in C6s: If any of you ever want a challenge then go into a magnetar system and run some Unsecured Core Emergence sites. I will warn you: the last two waves are deadly. If you can pull one of those off without losses (we do, although we don't normally take the time to scan them down outside magnetar systems), then you have officially won EVE PVE and if you can pull them off properly. We won't do them with a fleet of less than 15 DPS.
apparently mr CCRES doesent know about teh youtubez
go there, and watch 4 tengus do c6 plex np's... 15 bs's lmao...
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 18:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: madamtrader
Originally by: Kassa Daito Edited by: Kassa Daito on 22/05/2010 17:25:59
Originally by: Stovo kor Tip : Irony is strong here. Pay close attention to what the CCRES guys are saying. They are not blowing hot air. Most of the epic ganks in WH space are perpetrated by them.
C6: Tank Needed: We don't get these connections often but some of the easier C6 sites seem comparable to C5. Cept don't really want to bring large signature ships in here. DPS Required to do sites: I reckon 10 ships for efficiency
** You don't need caps for C6. You use caps to make ISK
It's great to know we're not losing our reputation out here. Keep up the good work soloing L4s and 5s and farming with caps. We love you all for the epic kills ;) (Not directed at the quoted individual. Just w-space residents in general.)
Caps are generally used in C6s to spawn extra BSes for people who only farm their home system's sites/anoms with battleship class ships. We can't feed >200 members in our home system so we don't use that particular tactic. However, we do occasionally use them to farm other corps' capitals.
For anyone interested in C6s: If any of you ever want a challenge then go into a magnetar system and run some Unsecured Core Emergence sites. I will warn you: the last two waves are deadly. If you can pull one of those off without losses (we do, although we don't normally take the time to scan them down outside magnetar systems), then you have officially won EVE PVE and if you can pull them off properly. We won't do them with a fleet of less than 15 DPS.
apparently mr CCRES doesent know about teh youtubez
go there, and watch 4 tengus do c6 plex np's... 15 bs's lmao...
Who said 15 bs's?
Maybe you can link the 4 tengu's video?
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madamtrader
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Posted - 2010.05.22 18:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ChaeDoc II Maybe you can link the 4 tengu's video?
Linkage seeing is believing, mr CCRES.
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Leeme Lone
Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 19:34:00 -
[22]
The tengu is pretty gimp indeed and im sure in the right pulsar system they will shine, but i wouldnt do it for the same reason you dont do lvl 4's with heavy missiles.. it just takes too good damn long :) Together with the sleepers RR there is just too much dmg wasted.
One thing is for certain, catching all those frigs and cruisers in the mag sites are hell and those tengus wont finish the site in 10-15mins as Kassas proposed 15dps fleet would do.
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madamtrader
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Posted - 2010.05.22 19:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Leeme Lone I do c6 in 15dps (whatever measure that is)
cool, and my volume knob goes to 11.
my only point is you dont need to roll 15 or even 10 people to do a c6. what you need is a well thought out plan and solid strategy.
notice in the vid it looks like they **** c6 bs pretty fast too. ^^
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Trevarre Schuldig
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.22 19:43:00 -
[24]
c5 done with 2 heavily tanked marauders and triage carrier support. this is the lowest number of people I've seen do a c5. 3 guys maybe even 2 if your super at micromanaging 2 marauders. the triaged carrier must have a dedicated pilot, probally 2 cap reps.
from what I see the first wave of the hardest c5 does around 1800dps, 6 more bs does maybe another 4000 dps. triaged carrier can take 8000 dps with 1 capital rep, remote reps for 6000dps on a decent tanked marauder. after you kill off the capital escalation, the 3000 dps non triage rr should be able to support your marauders tank. the 2 maruaders provide up to 800 dps each, 1600 dps together enough to take down any sleeper bs.
after the initial capship spawn you can drop triage and use drones for another thousand or so dps. I'm not totally sure if you can do this with shield tanking ships, but i've definately seen it done with archon, paladin, kronos.
a tengu can solo a c4 with pithum a-type medium shield booster and deadspace/officer hardeners.
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Leeme Lone
Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 19:48:00 -
[25]
How can you call that fast... dropping them in 10-15secs is fast, as i tried to imply earlier, dropping them as slow as the vid there allows the sleepers to rep each other and you loose effectiveness.
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 19:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: madamtrader
Originally by: ChaeDoc II Maybe you can link the 4 tengu's video?
Linkage seeing is believing, mr CCRES.
2m 30sec to kill a single sleeper BS between them. assuming they're all identically fit the frigates will be an absolute ***** too.
doing C6 sleeper bashes in just 4 tengus would not be wise for the simple reason that you're in space for a long, long time and the longer you're so exposed the more likely us or Aharm or one of the other very capable corps out there will land a nice T3 fleet on top of your arses.
So yes, evidently it is possible but very stupid to do so.
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madamtrader
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Posted - 2010.05.22 19:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: madamtrader on 22/05/2010 19:55:37
Originally by: ChaeDoc II
Originally by: madamtrader
Originally by: ChaeDoc II Maybe you can link the 4 tengu's video?
Linkage seeing is believing, mr CCRES.
2m 30sec to kill a single sleeper BS between them. assuming they're all identically fit the frigates will be an absolute ***** too.
doing C6 sleeper bashes in just 4 tengus would not be wise for the simple reason that you're in space for a long, long time and the longer you're so exposed the more likely us or Aharm or one of the other very capable corps out there will land a nice T3 fleet on top of your arses.
So yes, evidently it is possible but very stupid to do so.
your actually joking i assume... as i'm sure your ego isint large enough to actually think it would be stupid to plex using X setup because *you* could stumble onto said gang...
not sure where this thread is going but my point seems valid, while yours is nonsensical.
jeez i mean... waht is your point again?
Originally by: Leeme Lone How can you call that fast... dropping them in 10-15secs is fast, as i tried to imply earlier, dropping them as slow as the vid there allows the sleepers to rep each other and you loose effectiveness.
we're not debating which setup is more effective, 15 ships i wont argue will shoot sleepers faster than 4
we're debating the minimum requirements to do said plex in said wh, let me remind you
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 20:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: madamtrader Edited by: madamtrader on 22/05/2010 19:55:37
Originally by: ChaeDoc II
Originally by: madamtrader
Originally by: ChaeDoc II Maybe you can link the 4 tengu's video?
Linkage seeing is believing, mr CCRES.
2m 30sec to kill a single sleeper BS between them. assuming they're all identically fit the frigates will be an absolute ***** too.
doing C6 sleeper bashes in just 4 tengus would not be wise for the simple reason that you're in space for a long, long time and the longer you're so exposed the more likely us or Aharm or one of the other very capable corps out there will land a nice T3 fleet on top of your arses.
So yes, evidently it is possible but very stupid to do so.
your actually joking i assume... as i'm sure your ego isint large enough to actually think it would be stupid to plex using X setup because *you* could stumble onto said gang...
not sure where this thread is going but my point seems valid, while yours is nonsensical.
jeez i mean... waht is your point again?
Originally by: Leeme Lone How can you call that fast... dropping them in 10-15secs is fast, as i tried to imply earlier, dropping them as slow as the vid there allows the sleepers to rep each other and you loose effectiveness.
we're not debating which setup is more effective, 15 ships i wont argue will shoot sleepers faster than 4
we're debating the minimum requirements to do said plex in said wh, let me remind you
Nothing to do with ego, i'm saying that the isk you earn from doing a sleeper and salvaging it (about 500mil/4) in what looks to be taking a long time. 2.5mins x 23 Sleeper battleships, + frigs isn't worth having 4 high value gank targets like that exposed for such a long time. Alot of people think it is worth it, or overestimate their strength and think that they can handle any attempted gank. Their names now adorn our killboards.
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madamtrader
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Posted - 2010.05.22 20:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ChaeDoc II Their names now adorn our killboards.
quiet wh is quiet
if theyre fail enough to be allowing you to jump them, then so be it
iirc profit between 4 ships are greater than that profit between 15? amirite?
15 ships in a wh, factor of diminishing returns? amirite?
tbh i stick with c3 cause theyre fast and easy, i make 1b per day np like running L4 mish. my point was simply that 15 of any ship is overkill to do a c6, and most certainly not the minimum.
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.22 20:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: madamtrader
Originally by: ChaeDoc II Their names now adorn our killboards.
quiet wh is quiet
if theyre fail enough to be allowing you to jump them, then so be it
iirc profit between 4 ships are greater than that profit between 15? amirite?
15 ships in a wh, factor of diminishing returns? amirite?
tbh i stick with c3 cause theyre fast and easy, i make 1b per day np like running L4 mish. my point was simply that 15 of any ship is overkill to do a c6, and most certainly not the minimum.
Infact, no... you're wrong.
While for a single sleeper site the isk returned woult be less than the 125mil each tengu would approximately receive, those 15 would be finishing a site in 15 minutes, 20 at the most. Those Tengu's would be there while the 15 man fleet will be finishing their 5th or 6th sleeper site. (1.5 - 2 hours).
Then you have to factor into the equation the inevitable loss of those Tengus sooner or later, so i'll allow you to do the math.
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