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Daionnis
Caldari
Ananta-Boga
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.05.26 00:57:00 -
[1]
K, so I totally saw the cloaking thread in here, and the general QQ that's in it.
Im not complaining because I get butthurt when there's a red in system and he's cloaking. Believe me, Im part of the crew that bubbles the gates and traps him.
I think it'd be cool IF there was a means to finding a cloaker in system.
And what better way than to give our lovely scanning probes a nice little upgrade.
It can be done in the form of a rig or a skill or even a specially made probe.
The way it works is this:
A Prober knows there is a cloaked pilot somewhere in the system. The question is where?
The Prober launches 5 or 6 probes, and begins scanning. He's picking up anomalies, belts, drones, etc. He's not getting anything useful. So he uses his secret weapon: An EMP pulse. When used, the EMP pulse will radiate from every drone in local space under his control, and make cloaked craft show up on scan as a very, Very, VERY faint signature that you can then scan down. But here's the catch: In order to continue scanning down, you have to keep pulsing, and that has a cooldown of 60/55/50/40/30 seconds, depending on your skill levels.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:04:00 -
[2]
Would this make them uncloak, or only scanable by the user of the EM?
If uncloak: bad.
Also, would they know that they have been "detected"?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:11:00 -
[3]
The long 18 pages thread explains it already ... why would i bring a gimped ship fitting ... when I will be probable anyway? cloak is the counter to probes.
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Solostrom
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:18:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: darius mclever
The long 18 pages thread explains it already ... why would i bring a gimped ship fitting ... when I will be probable anyway? cloak is the counter to probes.
Thread is at 20 pages Darius... and to OP
bugger off!
I've already traded... DPS, Tank, EHP, lock penalty, etc for the ability to sit in your local and be all red and stuff! You don't need any more tools that aren't already available to you.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:32:00 -
[5]
As much as I disagree with him, I've really got to go with darius on this one.
First of all he's right, a cloak is the counter to probes, the counter to cloaking (as there is none right now) should be a completely different system, useful only against cloakers, and should take a long time to use even with perfect skills (read 15 min or so)
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:33:00 -
[6]
Sigras: see http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1300692&page=20#586
For a discussion on "counter to cloak"
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Daionnis
Caldari
Ananta-Boga
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sigras
As much as I disagree with him, I've really got to go with darius on this one.
First of all he's right, a cloak is the counter to probes, the counter to cloaking (as there is none right now) should be a completely different system, useful only against cloakers, and should take a long time to use even with perfect skills (read 15 min or so)
OH THE BETRAYAL!
=P
Im not suggesting this as something some noob with no experience can do. IE, I know I CANT/WONT be able to do it, I dont have the patience to train for stuff for weeks at a time. But something like this would supplement the cloaking mechanic. And no, it wouldnt uncloak the ship. But here's my reasoning: Nothing, NOTHING, can be completely invisible. On a certain spectrum, be it thermal, electromagnetic, or what have you, SOMEthing would eventually give away a cloaked ship. And it's not like this is something that would be scanned down in 2 minutes. It'd take a lot of time, a lot of patience, and a lot of real-life skill and trained skill. It'd probably end up being really expensive (Possibly a Tech 2 variant probe).
Fact is, I dont give a sh*t if you worked hard to become a red on my local list. You're a red. Im gonna hunt you, Im gonna scram you, and Im gonna kill you with 2 or 3 of my buddies.
Lastly, I for one would find it kind of boring to just sit in a system taking up real estate on a local list just to scare ratters. If I knew there were the means to scan me down with special tools, Id be fearing for my life.
If I flew into red space withOUT a cloaking vessel, with people actively trying to hunt me down and kill me, Id be warping to celestials, leading them off gates (If I could), and creating safe spots. To me, that is exciting and fun as hell. I mean, my blood gets pumping when just one red jumps into system for a brief look-see. But being in there reminds me that my family has a genetic history of blood pressure issues and asthma.
If I were cloaked, and I knew that my enemies had the means to find me regardless, no matter how difficult it'd be... Id be watching my ass.
Do YOU have to watch your ass in-system when you're cloaked? No, you warp to 100 off a belt, AB or MWD away a good distance, and remain cloaked.
I know me and mine would appreciate a way to find cloakers.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:06:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 26/05/2010 11:08:21
Originally by: Daionnis
But here's my reasoning: Nothing, NOTHING, can be completely invisible.
nothing, NOTHING, can move with super lightspeed. Due to Einstein. Is this enough for you?
Originally by: Daionnis
Fact is, I dont give a sh*t if you worked hard to become a red on my local list. You're a red. Im gonna hunt you, Im gonna scram you, and Im gonna kill you with 2 or 3 of my buddies.
I dont give a **** what you want, if I dont like being blobbed, I cloak. And you wont be able to find me UNTIL I DECIDE to uncloak!
This is how cloakers work, noob.
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Daionnis
Caldari
Ananta-Boga
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 26/05/2010 11:08:21
Originally by: Daionnis
But here's my reasoning: Nothing, NOTHING, can be completely invisible.
nothing, NOTHING, can move with super lightspeed. Due to Einstein. Is this enough for you?
Originally by: Daionnis
Fact is, I dont give a sh*t if you worked hard to become a red on my local list. You're a red. Im gonna hunt you, Im gonna scram you, and Im gonna kill you with 2 or 3 of my buddies.
I dont give a **** what you want, if I dont like being blobbed, I cloak. And you wont be able to find me UNTIL I DECIDE to uncloak!
This is how cloakers work, noob.
Funny how people always quote Einstein, and yet 70 years after e=mC2 was published, particle physicists are theorizing that FTL is, in fact, possible. Go read a book, "noob". Same rule applies for the theory of Relativity as The Bible: With time comes a change in theory or belief.
And cloaking is a broken concept anyway. Sure, it's ESSENTIAL, and it's surely FUN for like a few MINUTES, but then when you AFK and walk away, where's the fun in that? So you got up to make a sandwich and take a ****, wow-whee, that's a rip-roaring hootenany you got there. Exhilarating.
Everything needs a balance. Sure cloaks have reduced speeds, targeting delays, etc. etc. etc.
But they need Kryptonite. Superman has Kryptonite. Why cant cloakers?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:52:00 -
[10]
the fun is in buggin dumb carebears unable to fit for pvp or rat in groups.
But in the fact, there is no fun in eve because you're afk and do things, its just a method of leaving eve for useful things while being logged in, whereafter you will probably get a cheap kill on a dumb carebear going ratting solo with a red in local.
Go figure.
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Huge Bruno
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:53:00 -
[11]
1. REMOVE local chat as a intel-tool/paranoia-inducer.
2. DON'T fudge with cloaking(!)
3. FIX black-ops battleships.
4. Quit whining.
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BzydaL
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:58:00 -
[12]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1300692&page=20
the cloak should need some fuel - they want to gather intel? sure they can but only by the time they have fuel.
They will be forced to leave system from time to time just to fill in fuel-bay, they won't be able to be afk in whole day/week/month - and they wouldnt be immune at last ;p
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 26/05/2010 12:37:38
cloak does not need a fuel.
Afk cloaking is fine for gathering intel, psychological warfare and as counter for local as intel.
There is no reason why one should be forced to leave a certain region or system.
Bzydal, please tell me your main, I'd love to come to the system you're hanging around, afk cloak and kill you and your ratter buddies from time to time.
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BzydaL
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:55:00 -
[14]
lol,
it would be interesting - cos my fav ship is prot with.... cloak on board ;p
I'm selling gtc and it's my way of playing this game - but tell you my main? hmm - I dont care, but my friends who earn money by ratting would be nervous a bit ;p
And yes - we have few own afk'ers on lokal - they used to try to attack ratters but as you mention before - the best option is gather 2 friends and earn money in semi-pvp ships.
The solution is known - however I wish to have oportunity to remove afk'res from local - I have no time to hunt them whole ****ing day cos Im working, have family etc ;p. It's impossible to bait them when you're playin 2h daily ;p
But if they be foreced to fill their fuel bay....
Pls dont whinning and dont try to by so smart by "tell me your main" - im here mostly for pvp - and I hate ppl who try to be pvp but without pvp at all.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:01:00 -
[15]
2 amusing things:
1. you ask people about their main so you can pvp them ... but eve-kill.net has no record of you pvping at all.
2. you only need to hunt those people if you want to carebear without being prepared for pvp.
you admitted yourself that there is already a way to counter those people cloaked in your system (ratting in pairs in semi pvp ships)
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:58:00 -
[16]
Forget it Darius,
You can't use logical arguments with Carebears...
They just don't understand, will get frustrated and make another "nerf cloaking thread"
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Rugs
Amarr
Yakuza Corp
THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:13:00 -
[17]
A cloaked ship can not target or shoot your ship, it's 100% harmless, until it's not afk and cloaked anymore, so that means the issue isn't the AFK cloakers... it's an active decloaked dude who is.
Sounds like you have been butthurt by cloaking reds in local...
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Mr Barksdale
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:17:00 -
[18]
Haven't read the other thread... but...
Can't it be that a cloaker just vanishes from local when cloak is switched on?
And..
Give the probe people what they want... a probe that can find cloakers... but with great difficulty.
This means that people will see a red come in system. But won't know if he's cloaked or jumped back out as he vanishes from local. They can then try and scan him down using probes but won't know if either:
1) he's left and they will never be able to find him or 2) he's still there but the probes missed.
Sorry, don't know too much about cloaking so this might be a load of balls.
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takinurwreck
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: takinurwreck on 26/05/2010 15:29:02
Edited by: takinurwreck on 26/05/2010 15:28:09
Really? your whining about a COUPLE of people who cloak their ship because they do not want you to kill them or find them? BOO HOOO, YOU DIDNT GET A PIE WHO CLOAKED, give it up, there are alot of fish in the sea, go buy a rod. The finding of someone while they are cloaked is defeating the purpose OF a cloak, so suck it up princess, you cant win them all.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 26/05/2010 11:08:21
Originally by: Daionnis
But here's my reasoning: Nothing, NOTHING, can be completely invisible.
nothing, NOTHING, can move with super lightspeed. Due to Einstein. Is this enough for you?
Both are actually false.
1) If the cloaking device bent the electromagnetic spectrum around it (as 90% of sci-fi cloaks do), the only way to detect it would be to be to detect the thermal exhaust, so your not actually detecting the ship, but where the ship was. And if they are near a celestial body their exhaust would be nearly undetectable due to background thermal sources.
2) Tachyons go faster than light.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.05.26 17:04:00 -
[21]
Sorry the nerd in me is coming out. . . In star trek cloaks are detectable by using a tachyon detection grid (not sure how that works) there were even sensor arrays the federation used to detect ships from long range. Additionally, if a cloak did bend the EM spectrum round the ship, something like a sonar ping would pick them up if they were in front of a celestial object because the ping would have to go around the ship twice taking a VERY small amount of additional time.
Additionally I believe that the current sci fi spew about a warp bubble is that it creates a pocket of space around the ship and the pocket itself is driven past the speed of light (somehow) this explains why you can sometimes see other people in your warp bubble
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FarosWarrior
Amarr
Pure Dutch Damage Corp
United Royal Dreams
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Posted - 2010.05.26 17:16:00 -
[22]
not another one
OMG THERE IS A RED IN LOCAL AND I KNOW HE'S CLOAKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111 *nerdrage*
when there is a cloaked red in local you can probably be sure of either of the following 2 things:
1: the red is in a cloaked gank-bs and thus will probably take a while to lock your ratting hac/bc
2: the red is in a cloaked recon/whatever other ship and probably won't do enough damage to kill you or tank enough damage not to die
either way, cookies are cool mkay?
no seriously, have a few buddies handy that can assist you at a moments notice |
Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2010.05.26 17:20:00 -
[23]
nope.
Its called a cloak, anything that is brought out to uncloak/probe down cloaked ship is killing the ****ing purpose of the module. |
FeralShadow
Black Storm Cartel
The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:50:00 -
[24]
A lot of people fail to realize that the fact the person is sitting in local cloaked, completely safe (in a game where they say you're not safe anywhere, not even 1.0) feeding INTEL is the bad part. Intel on the targets and who's doing what in the system is arguably the best weapon to killing said people in local. So they should have a way to counter that weapon outside of either completely locking down the system (which is hard to do 23/7) or docking up and ceasing all function in the system for days on end while the red may or may not be at the computer. The recon might not be able to kill your ratting ship, but his friends will. That's all it takes.
_______________________________________________
"If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
-CDS Now Taking Contracts-
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
GK inc.
Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:49:00 -
[25]
What do you think 'recon' is an abbreviation of?
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sigras
As much as I disagree with him, I've really got to go with darius on this one.
First of all he's right, a cloak is the counter to probes, the counter to cloaking (as there is none right now) should be a completely different system, useful only against cloakers, and should take a long time to use even with perfect skills (read 15 min or so)
The counter to cloaking is that YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING WHILE CLOAKED.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: FeralShadow
A lot of people fail to realize that the fact the person is sitting in local cloaked, completely safe (in a game where they say you're not safe anywhere, not even 1.0) feeding INTEL is the bad part. Intel on the targets and who's doing what in the system is arguably the best weapon to killing said people in local. So they should have a way to counter that weapon outside of either completely locking down the system (which is hard to do 23/7) or docking up and ceasing all function in the system for days on end while the red may or may not be at the computer. The recon might not be able to kill your ratting ship, but his friends will. That's all it takes.
So, in your scenario
This Uber Cloaker is sitting in YOUR PERSONAL space 23/7 with friends on standby
( sounds like a patient very dangerous corp to me ) ready to gank you as soon as you start ratting right?
My question to you is : where are your friends / corp members at while your being ganked?
There are multiple counters to what you described and all have been listed in the other 20 threads just like this one.
You chose to live in 0.0...Remember that fact
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:16:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 27/05/2010 17:16:25
there are many people willing to make your life to hell in 0.0. And this IS ABSOLUTELY FINE because its 0.0, there wont be a button you could press and reveal all threats so you can gank them with overwhelming numbers.
The whole whine about (afk)cloakers sounds like wah wah wah they threaten me and I cant gank/blob them out of MY SPACE, CCP please do anything about them.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:41:00 -
[29]
Spending quality time in a wormhole should be required for anyone posting about cloaking issues.
Cloaking is fine & comes with plenty of drawbacks.
Intel & organisation is the problem. Local & its current inextricable linkage with intel is also the problem.
Currently you know, with absolute certainty, that there is an enemy out there who is cloaked. If on the other hand you didn't know that, then there begins to be room for cloak countermeasures - a full intel revamp is what is required, not 'change this tiny bit of cloaking that hurts 0.0 safe zones'.
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My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Daionnis
Caldari
Ananta-Boga
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.05.27 21:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: Sigras
As much as I disagree with him, I've really got to go with darius on this one.
First of all he's right, a cloak is the counter to probes, the counter to cloaking (as there is none right now) should be a completely different system, useful only against cloakers, and should take a long time to use even with perfect skills (read 15 min or so)
The counter to cloaking is that YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING WHILE CLOAKED.
Besides probe, directional scan, warp (if a SB, CO, or BO), communicate enemy locations, etc.
Yeah. That's a whole boatload of nothing.
Idiots.
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